From ???@??? Sun Jan 08 17:55:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.52]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3138844266 for ; Sun, 8 Jan 2006 08:14:08 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=FPDYO/zlA3jSZp+tpNFXyWA1l6nEe/rka/nb0hawjCIxs0YRzpgs8uYh4QmMkc1U/a6Y/TldimJx+7+8h0zvxtmnl7bh0v/4v5Cov1NMdHX+XNarkM3C50q4wGjSwVVG; Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2006 16:14:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2006 16:14:07 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: nicoletheknitter@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46003 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 16:14:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 16:14:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54212.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.45) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 16:14:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 25863 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jan 2006 16:13:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20060108161303.25861.qmail@web54212.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.137.17.214] by web54212.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 08:13:03 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1135506338.834.31694.m19@yahoogroups.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.39.45 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: nicole X-Yahoo-Profile: nicoletheknitter Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 08:13:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 525 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i started reading ukl about 2 years ago. i was teaching a high school class called "writer's craft" and i did a search on the net. i ended up finding some stuff ukl had written on writing which lead me to "the telling" which i absolutely loved. so, how about canadians in the ekumen? i'm also "still looking for my shevak"! nicole --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jan 09 17:48:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.54]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B99EE103D0E for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 11:59:07 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=MRqDFTcCWpwy3LRV1+eZL8mYRZik00+NrsNNUUz1GAedcGn7IxbRBzEf/kamZNJ2L15S0RdUrg0Xvqj2LJ8IjDOnUAZIH9Ufl/Cv0vVUQb35fHy3UZ8peg/xSwupo+Mw; Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 19:59:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.36] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 19:59:06 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13833 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 19:59:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 19:59:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 19:59:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 19:54:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 19:54:10 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 19:54:10 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Between the Years (German saying for the time between Newyears and Christmas) I bought UKLs shortstory collection the Compass Rose. I'm not usually a big fan of short stories but I really enjoyed Schršdinger's Cat (possiblly a new favorite). Well what I really wanted to say/ask is that I noticed that UKL often sets her tales in repressed societies (resources, ideas, ways of life), where cretive people (artists, scientists...)have to do their work in secret. Examples: Orsinian Tales, The Telling, The left hand of darkness, Compass Rose... It seems almost as if these societies or governments are charakters/actors in the tale (not just a seting). (do you precieve this the same way?)I wonder why this plays such an important role. I could understand if she was from an Eastblock country, but not from the US. Certainly local comunities in the US are socially intolerant, but as a whole it seems pretty open to me.(just move somewhere else) The only historical repressive Period I remember is the McCarthy witch hunt Era. Maybe I got this wrong? I expect somebody will want to start Bushbashing now, but, wheras I'm no fan, the stories I'm refering to originated much earllier and visionary or no I don't think UKL is a clairvoiant. I do think it worthwhile to discuss her fiction in modern Context but thats a different thread. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jan 09 17:49:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.35]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E0D5FCB438 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:31:58 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=sdfktpPf572MtjLxoam1ActJmm7vUOXKkOavUnBzTrq8Tuf5AM+C1w3HmPLMMhT0JAvgEErPlXNno+Hm/2eb43biVu9ZMCl4i19zwOAwet8nhKdT1PbV6e3xRV9vlrdB; Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 21:31:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 21:31:48 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: abraxael@drizzle.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86322 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 21:31:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 21:31:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jetspin.drizzle.com) (216.162.192.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 21:31:46 -0000 Received: from 8mkkx01 (wet105.drizzle.com [216.162.201.105]) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id k09LV0MD032028 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:31:00 -0800 Message-ID: <000501c61563$ff215d00$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 216.162.192.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "William L. Houts" Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:31:04 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I could understand if she was from an Eastblock country, but not from the US. Certainly local comunities in the US are socially intolerant, but as a whole it seems pretty open to me.(just move somewhere else) The only historical repressive Period I remember is the McCarthy witch hunt Era. Maybe I got this wrong? This was a wonderful conversation opener. I don't think you'rewrong, exactly, but your definition of repression seems to me a bit less expansive than it could be. Certainly, we don't live in a totalitarian police state. People can see and do and think pretty much as they like. But that state of affairs isn't guaranteed, and it has been gravely eroded over the last thirty years. The name "the United States of America" isn't in itself a talisman against repression. People here have the same problems which have lead to fascist nightmares in other countries. In general, folks don't like to think too deeply or broadly about their actions and ensuing consequences. Most of the Population, it seems to me, doesn't like to think much about anything at all. At least half of the population appears to want to be told what to do, how to live and what to think. A pillar of our democracy, that of journalism, is in grave disrepair. What used to be the province of, well of JOURNALISTS, is now largely a haven for every lickspittle, toady and loudmouth with a drum to bang. Because most human beings prefer dozy sheephood to a more conscious humanity. It takes energy to think about what's really important to you. And anyway, you might miss "How to Be a Millionaire". Or whatever the show is now, fill in the blank. People have been saying for at least a hundred years that a totalitarian takeover could never happen here. Sinclair Lewis even wrote a novel about this. But it IS happening right now. Liberties which used to be unussailable are being auctioned off by a Congress more interested in feeding, in blind maggotry, than in something approaching an honest politics, while a good portion of the electorate is too busy at the Walmart bargain table to care. They WILL care, though. They'll care when there ARE friendly jackboots on every street corner of America and the Land of the Free is a hazy memory. Then we will need Sheveks, because Madame LeGuin's prophetic works will have been fulfilled; they're being fulfilled right now. --Bill Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jan 09 17:50:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.227]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 555A1CB3F7 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:41:55 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=XfA1KoH/9vri5fhMhxDcrQrCZfwVLy5oYXVVnxYlaK7fpLoQfIVNe7hH47d8oRwCq+C8HLNtT0FZmuPLCykY1HsAkvvExjpNU7ubi4Xt8krl2XcayQKx3yMKPYFAb+wV; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n7.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 22:41:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by mailer2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 22:41:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 22:41:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: bschrack1@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98952 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 22:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 22:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc14.comcast.net) (63.240.77.84) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 22:41:53 -0000 Received: from [68.55.3.219] (unknown[68.55.3.219]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with ESMTP id <2006010921570501400shcoke>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:57:05 +0000 Message-ID: <43C2DC1B.9060404@comcast.net> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <000501c61563$ff215d00$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> In-Reply-To: <000501c61563$ff215d00$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> X-Originating-IP: 63.240.77.84 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bonnie Schrack X-Yahoo-Profile: bonnieschrack Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:56:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very well said, Bill. I also wanted to say, though, since jokerinchen (name?) did wonder about why she was so interested in this before the more recent deterioration of civil liberties, that this has always been a conformist society, despite its reputation in Europe for being free-wheeling. Creative, nonconformist, thoughtful, and sensitive people have very often felt alienated from the mainstream, and psychologically repressed by it, if nothing else. Think, for example, of the Beats during the 1950s. Of course, for minorities like African and Native Americans, there has always been violent repression here. It has always been easier for those, like UKL, who are sensitive, to identify with people who live under a more brutal and overt kind of repression. We may feel that they are truly our kindred spirits even if our situation is much easier in many ways. I concur when you say, > People have been saying for at least a hundred years that a totalitarian > takeover could never happen here. Sinclair Lewis even wrote a novel > about > this. But it IS happening right now. Liberties which used to be > unussailable are being auctioned off and I thought this was marvelously eloquent, > while a good portion of the electorate is too busy at the Walmart > bargain table to care. They WILL care, though. They'll care when > there ARE > friendly jackboots on every street corner of America and the Land of the > Free is a hazy memory. Then we will need Sheveks, because Madame > LeGuin's > prophetic works will have been fulfilled; they're being fulfilled right > now. Hear, hear. It's a scary time. At least some of the evil deeds are coming out in the press -- not ALL journalists are complete sell-outs -- and there is an outcry against these totalitarian, police-state measures, so let's not give up hope yet. Bonnie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jan 09 17:50:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.226]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 42440CB3C3 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:42:30 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=INQ4DOxhCjN5es10Oiq2pYl4xwWFZTt2i9soBrnMjA04Kv0IhmWTW5Jr2U7s8EUD7xEqP/DWnk1Q7vnUKzG7zJ3ZqQQgBJDarUaSXCOd45AbznQcaqdBlxnpZo0cl3aV; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n6.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 22:42:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by mailer2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 22:42:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.193] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 22:42:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19793 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 22:42:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 22:42:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.64) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 22:42:28 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfl2k.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.212.84] helo=DB) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1Ew5id-0001BB-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:42:27 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.20060109143556.00a1a770@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000501c61563$ff215d00$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> References: X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:41:33 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 01:31 PM 1/9/2006 -0800, William L. Houts wrote: >The name "the United States of America" isn't in itself a talisman against >repression. People here have the same problems which have lead to fascist >nightmares in other countries. Nor is a "fascist nightmare" even necessary to make Le Guin's point. In her essay "The Stalin in the Soul" (in The Language of the Night) she observes that self-censorship, when it operates, is just as effective as any other form of censorship. If you don't write your masterwork because you can't be bothered or because you've bartered your soul and time away, it's just as unavailable as it would be if the secret police locked you up and burned your papers. Le Guin is very concerned with this issue of self-expression, and thus it comes out in so many of her works. >People have been saying for at least a hundred years that a totalitarian >takeover could never happen here. Sinclair Lewis even wrote a novel about >this. But it IS happening right now. It happened in Sinclair Lewis, too. His title "It Can't Happen Here" is sarcastic. In the novel, it does happen. David Bratman Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:31:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.38]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BA51ECB403 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:52:42 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=iPTnekFnkBRsVscdcHP+DctUcOVppC12gu1LHBFWkIYFFGz7U+diEB2KkU90fCQR3B3x+urVIf4+xh1zl3rTKf6vcsFa1NzAzWzeQp6qqzTPe59rVVLL26JrGgzOMlyX; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 23:52:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 23:52:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: abraxael@drizzle.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6899 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 23:52:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 23:52:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jetspin.drizzle.com) (216.162.192.5) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 23:52:39 -0000 Received: from 8mkkx01 (wet105.drizzle.com [216.162.201.105]) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id k09NpvMD024302 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:51:57 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01c61577$afae6010$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> To: References: <000501c61563$ff215d00$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> <43C2DC1B.9060404@comcast.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 216.162.192.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "William L. Houts" Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:52:01 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hear, hear. It's a scary time. At least some of the evil deeds are coming > out in the press -- not ALL journalists are complete sell-outs -- and > there is an outcry against these totalitarian, police-state measures, so > let's not give up hope yet. Thank you, Bonnie! Thank you for your more leavened view of things; my consciousness ess does tilt a bit to the left side of things and it's like drinking cold clean brook water to read messages like yours. And you are right, of course, when you point out that American society tends to satisfy the citizen with more average habits of mind. The brilliant and the strange have to fight for spiritual survival while everybody else checks TV Guide. People are not nearly so free here as we are supposed to pretend. I recently posted a message to a transhumanist mailing list of which I was, uh, formerly a member. If you don't know this movement, transhumanists are convinced that all of humanity's ills can be wiped away through technology. They have lots of good ideas, or at least interesting ones. But they're very big on eradicating all physical suffering through science. Well, on the face of it, seems to be an entirely commendable project. But I'm a Catholic and like many of the older spiritual traditions, human suffering has a value in Catholicism, it's part of our education. Avoid it if you're able,escape it if you can, but endure it with grace when there's nothing to be done, and possibly be enriched by the experience. So I posted a message sayinhg that I had some issues with the transhumanist thing, and I said why. I didn't bang a Bible, I didn't threaten damnation. I just wondered outloud if a 23rd century human cyborg, free of suffering, will be able to paint a GUERNICA or even write a decent rock song. Well, the moderator shut me down. He simply told me that suffering was pointless and that I should go away if I didn't want to get flamed. I don't care about being flamed, I can more than hold my own in these things. But I signed off anyway, disappointed. I expected transhumanists to be able to engage serious criticism, but the best they could do was tell me to shut up and go away. These aren't idiots. Transhumanists tend to be extremely literate, if along a certain narrow materialist band. But free in their habits of mind? I don't think so. They're marvelous people, full ofvery interesting ideas, but but from what I saw on that list, they're just another orthodoxy in the making. It's a hard task, to stay conscious all the time, I'm hip to that, and I cop to my own shorthands and laziness. I just wonder why more people seem to prefer zombiehoods of various kinds to an authentic engagement with life. --Bill Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:31:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.221]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4273C103D04 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:02:46 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Co6Gu7G4YjGwH1p0I+EA86sh5qo0/DERoSjQadEccjWJzFh2rFjrEhDY6TwZqeNnHMzCqe/50CkFoQdOqTT2/UbvhinJH6RbQFYreIa8mu75B+HdtDAJMW9pRT/ydR+4; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 01:02:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 01:02:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 01:02:44 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: leahrobinson11201@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8455 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 01:02:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 01:02:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31514.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.143) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 01:02:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 85450 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jan 2006 01:02:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20060110010207.85448.qmail@web31514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.191.237.108] by web31514.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:02:07 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 68.142.198.143 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: Leah Robinson X-Yahoo-Profile: leahrobinson11201 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:02:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Continueing to read history Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain I've been here for a long time and this is the first time I've been moved to say something: Hip Hip Hurrah. Keep it coming. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos ö Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and weâll bind it! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:31:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.42]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 46DA1CB36B for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:23:14 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=KdyuwQNpk3zn7ek/YDqQGdgtqbYz8x1xsOnojnx2ACqaf7HdGw939B69FwPeNkRuyO+tNusw9udKFK+GyOGRmpP2H3wpFcWdeDNDzJ4d5gMg6iWak2zjhhwB/SaYe59/; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 01:23:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 01:23:10 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4827 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 01:23:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 01:23:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.64) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 01:23:08 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfl2k.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.212.84] helo=DB) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1Ew8E7-0005i4-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 20:23:08 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.20060109161724.009adf00@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000a01c61577$afae6010$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> References: <000501c61563$ff215d00$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> <43C2DC1B.9060404@comcast.net> X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:22:11 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 03:52 PM 1/9/2006 -0800, William L. Houts wrote: >So I posted a message sayinhg that I had some issues with the transhumanist >thing, and I said why. I didn't bang a Bible, I didn't threaten damnation. >I just wondered outloud if a 23rd century human cyborg, free of suffering, >will be able to paint a GUERNICA or even write a decent rock song. You have a point, but it's not one I'd make on a transhumanist mailing list. Arguing to an entire list, however politely, that its basic presupposition is wrong seems ... needlessly suicidal. David Bratman Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:31:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.35]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 31815442A0 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:30:49 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=YyXwf6iB5lRQpCeHsPbBryCgkZL7viJw6nJJCe80gUcGV4PRojLTh9yoP/WWOGyRPclojEOwMzwJEKgCJLsHEsw3rp3enyIy85xL9U8aWRb8yAZ5STyxnAgjT4nZVC8J; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 02:30:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 02:30:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: abraxael@drizzle.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54987 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 02:30:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 02:30:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jetspin.drizzle.com) (216.162.192.5) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 02:30:41 -0000 Received: from 8mkkx01 (wet105.drizzle.com [216.162.201.105]) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id k0A2TkMD017110 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:29:46 -0800 Message-ID: <001201c6158d$bba78d90$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> To: References: <000501c61563$ff215d00$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> <43C2DC1B.9060404@comcast.net> <4.1.20060109161724.009adf00@mail.earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 216.162.192.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "William L. Houts" Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:29:50 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > You have a point, but it's not one I'd make on a transhumanist mailing > list. Arguing to an entire list, however politely, that its basic > presupposition is wrong seems ... needlessly suicidal. I agree with you in part, David. It's clear that I have more manners than sense. But suicidal? I wasn'tjust trying to tweak noses. I was hoping for a passionate argument to the effect that all of MY basic presuppositions were wrong. I was hoping to be instructed by people whose ideas have interested me for a long time. Probably inappropriate in the end, but still, what a lost opportunity. You bring up the whole question of boundaries, which is another concern of mine. If I had gone on the list and said, You're all wrong because suffering is necessary and I KNOW because my Church told me --well, that certainly WOULD be high nastiness on my part, and a smackdown would be forthcoming. But to go on the list and do a little testing of the boundaries by ASKING, If you know nothing of suffering, can you paint a STARRY NIGHT, a GUERNICA or compose a Ninth Symphony --is that really out of bounds? And if so, do we sometimes NEED a Transgressor to stumble in and make a stink sometimes?In order to figure out the difference between what we've been told and what wwe REALLY know? Granted, I'm a pain in the ass, but those are interesting questions, aren't they? --Bill I don't know the answer, but at the moment I (obviously, duh)feel sympathy for the Transgressor position. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:31:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.53]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7AF3E4422F for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:40:18 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=FlUHYXXmrL5K2TJkKZ9kbLxU3rp/jUr8b4e2+JpzZYYL7JoNikk6zCjBVdEr+Y/1Xpi5Yh46y65KIzF61zqSJAJfW2E4W2CAPKZ5sgGbq2l6sbQMITT7U3Uk0ay4EGeF; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 03:40:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.200] by mailer8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 03:40:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: kim.mccollum-clark@millersville.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56349 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 03:40:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 03:40:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rwcrmhc12.comcast.net) (216.148.227.153) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 03:40:15 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.100] (pcp01474606pcs.montvl01.pa.comcast.net[68.82.223.147]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2006011002592801500e6b7qe>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 02:59:28 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.1.051004 To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Thread-Index: AcYVkd5CHJrm/IGFEdqbXAAKldG89A== In-Reply-To: <001201c6158d$bba78d90$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> X-Originating-IP: 216.148.227.153 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Kim McCollum-Clark X-Yahoo-Profile: kimmccollum Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 21:59:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Bill, Hi, and thanks for transgressing! I really appreciate this thread a lot, although part of my brain is still grappling with Òtrans-humanistÓÑI must have missed that on my web-travels. . . Anyway, for everyone. . . , I wanted to pose a UKL question in relation to this thread. . . I am a UKL newbie in many ways, though a devoted one (especially to the Earthsea books, which make me cry and shake my head in wonder). When I was reading The Telling, I was struck with many questions about how one SHOULD respond to suffering and wrong-doing. The culture being dismantled in The TellingÑhow should ÒweÓ respond? I recall thinking some of my confusion may stem from my utter ignorance of Taoism. . . how does a Taoist respond to the Òwrong-doingÓ? My religious tradition is QuakerÑthe Religious Society of Friends, properly known. Quakers are pacifists, but not Òpassivists.Ó From their inception (around 1600 AD in England), they have been ferocious fighters for those imprisoned, those enslaved (abolitionists in the US Civil War, for example.) They do not fight militarily, but they do ÒfightÓ in the sense of opposing what they define as wrong-doing. I felt something different was being valued in The TellingÑand even in the most recent YA book, Gifts. But I canÕt yet wrap my brain around it. UKL does that to me, time and again: she leads me in places I canÕt yet go. . but I wouldnÕt get there at all if she didnÕt lead. . . My apologies if this takes us too far afield. Kim McCollum On 1/9/06 9:29 PM, "William L. Houts" wrote: >> >> You have a point, but it's not one I'd make on a transhumanist mailing >> list. Arguing to an entire list, however politely, that its basic >> presupposition is wrong seems ... needlessly suicidal. > > > I agree with you in part, David. It's clear that I have more manners than > sense. But suicidal? I wasn'tjust trying to tweak noses. I was hoping for > a passionate argument to the effect that all of MY basic presuppositions > were wrong. I was hoping to be instructed by people whose ideas have > interested me for a long time. Probably inappropriate in the end, but > still, what a lost opportunity. > > You bring up the whole question of boundaries, which is another concern of > mine. If I had gone on the list and said, You're all wrong because suffering > is necessary and I KNOW because my Church told me --well, that certainly > WOULD be high nastiness on my part, and a smackdown would be forthcoming. > But to go on the list and do a little testing of the boundaries by ASKING, > If you know nothing of suffering, can you paint a STARRY NIGHT, a GUERNICA > or compose a Ninth Symphony --is that really out of bounds? And if so, do > we sometimes NEED a Transgressor to stumble in and make a stink sometimes?In > order to figure out the difference between what we've been told and what wwe > REALLY know? > > Granted, I'm a pain in the ass, but those are interesting questions, aren't > they? > > > --Bill > > > I don't know the answer, but at the moment I (obviously, duh)feel sympathy > for the Transgressor position. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:31:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.233]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B749844271 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:17:42 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=ucW/zEy5dFfW+CQrpQkMz5PbFqEO0c00fRitb0qjE1rHnsN4kAHgZoZa1pGXerXDaazBg5dM9ZTAhIOTm1SgS/sAV8TImrVYrdxt9n5tm9gvI+hsQTj+irfpswO2cdH+; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n10.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 03:17:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 03:17:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.61] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 03:17:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: stillman@vassar.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77879 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 03:17:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 03:17:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.vassar.edu) (143.229.1.32) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 03:17:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 22628 invoked on mail01 by uid 0); 9 Jan 2006 22:17:18 -0500 Received: from pool-141-149-121-80.pghk.east.verizon.net (HELO ?192.168.1.47?) (stillman@141.149.121.80) by mail01.vassar.edu with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 22:17:17 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000501c61563$ff215d00$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> References: <000501c61563$ff215d00$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 143.229.1.32 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4:0 From: "Peter G. Stillman" X-Yahoo-Profile: gwfhegel Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 22:17:24 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I could understand if she was from an Eastblock country, but not from the >US. Certainly local comunities in the US are socially intolerant, but as a >whole it seems pretty open to me.(just move somewhere else) The only >historical repressive Period I remember is the McCarthy witch hunt Era. Maybe I got this wrong? Dear List -- I think that this is a really important point about Le Guin's writing. In some cases, she does write about apparently open societies -- think Anarres. But even on Anarres there are many problems with power and with lack of communication. As I see it, when you look at the range of Le Guin's work, she is (among other things) writing about power and the lack (or difficulties or blockages) of communication, and at the same time about how to change that power and blocked communication to a more egalitarian form of relation and a more open communication. Blocked communication (and power) can take interesting forms. Part of what fascinates me about the Left Hand of Darkness is that Estraven's communication with those in power on Winter is blocked by political power and personal disputes -- what I would say I see as the traditional forms of blocked communication, at least in my study of politics -- whereas Genly Ai's blocked communication with Estraven -- Ah, what would say of that? Genly Ai comes from an open and communicative society, and his goal is to be open and communicative -- and yet, all the time, we see his preconceptions getting in the way of his ability to communicate with Estraven. It takes Genly Ai hundreds of pages, a trip across the ice, and Estraven's death before he understands can break through those preconceptions. One can rightly complain about the inegalitarian, restrictive, and agressive power and the lack of communication of the Bush administration -- that is the usual destructive politics at work, such as we see on Winter or on Urras (and I could continue with other examples ....) Le Guin sees that, and portrays it well. But what is, to me, part of the real genius of Le Guin's work is her ability to see other kinds of power and blockages, and portray them well. Someone commented that we need more Sheveks. Yes, that is true. But notice how The Dispossessed is structured; Shevek in chaps 2-5 at least is not yet Shevek, he has not developed, he is still taken in by A-Io's externals, and still in the thrall of Sabul and a set of preconceptions on Anarres (although he is showing some signs of learning ....) It is not that we need more Sheveks, it is that each of us needs to go through the kind of development that Shevek goes through, so that we can see and act on equal relations and open communication. Or so I think. -- Peter G. Stillman stillman@vassar.edu http://faculty.vassar.edu/stillman Professor, Political Science, Rocky 204, ext. 5581 Director, Environmental Studies, NE 103, ext. 5430 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:31:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.44]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BC7D103D10 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:57:23 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=B3C1hlJQ2LLBXYIuz8V4qS3KnUnllMGT2jz371atY8gMbDe48m6cGCY5KiyAx3d6k5noE21XkZxAQntQLF0MK2hgH/gsTw08aOP8X5wcQREkA/LE/PzhwFiMnfdTqFSd; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 03:57:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.106] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 03:57:23 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: abraxael@drizzle.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42613 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 03:57:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 03:57:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jetspin.drizzle.com) (216.162.192.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 03:57:21 -0000 Received: from 8mkkx01 (wet105.drizzle.com [216.162.201.105]) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id k0A3vKMD015551 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:57:20 -0800 Message-ID: <001a01c61599$f79e15b0$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> To: References: <000501c61563$ff215d00$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 216.162.192.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "William L. Houts" Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:57:25 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit to me, part of the real genius of Le Guin's work is her ability to see other kinds of power and blockages, and portray them well. For me too, this is the core of LeGuin's genius: the clarity to find other names for power, the skill to create language to describe it. What always moves me the most about Ged's journey is that he always refuses to blunt his power into a mere instrument of control. He forgives the pirate Egri, commanding him to speak only when he finds something worth saying. It's less a punishment than an instruction, a direction for Egri to follow now that his slaver days are done. And the Nine Masters of Roke, for all of their problems, their jealousies and misogyny,are a fraternity, a family. With rare exceptions, they speak of and address each other with grave respect --even the Master Hand. Maybe especially him. Finally, I thinkof that short story from the recent Earthsea collection, in which Ged catches up with the "ruined man", the wild powerful Roke student who lost his name. Ged (as I recall) renames him and more importantly, HOLDS him, welcomes him back into the human family. Any other writer, saving a few, would have turned the scene into (forgive me the vulgarity) a magical big d*ck contest. In Madame's work, power is family, connection, living in the Tao, honor. And those are things everyone can know and recognize. Given the state of our culture, I can't for the life of me figure out why LeGuin is even now regarded in mainstream literary circles as somehow trivial, as if fantasy isn't the very root of Western literature. --Bill Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:31:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.35]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 48390441F9 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 20:12:35 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=IVzZMSfu7f08+rdBs9zS5BfJ1BAKBEdvDTHQXs3/m3Tw3dFciw/xjOon0LRouFUZcNhSqIF8ze2oMviNmFfupFf1dL8sOoZWijOYaoajWazUo7N+oXXa+vhZhayKtAsl; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 04:12:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 04:12:33 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85718 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 04:12:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 04:12:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.65) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 04:12:32 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfl2k.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.212.84] helo=DB) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EwArz-0004Yo-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 23:12:27 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.20060109195703.00ab6bd0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001201c6158d$bba78d90$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> References: <000501c61563$ff215d00$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> <43C2DC1B.9060404@comcast.net> <4.1.20060109161724.009adf00@mail.earthlink.net> X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 20:11:27 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, Bill, they're interesting questions, and my own interest in them is increased by my suspicion (I have no more than that, and no real capacity to discuss them) that you are right. But a transhumanist list is likely to be inhabited by people who already have faith in a different answer to these questions, and who have formed the list to go on and ask the next question. Consequently any attempt, however politely phrased, to query their basic suppositions _in that forum_ will disrupt the conversation and is likely to be perceived as the act of a troll. On this list we've discussed some pretty advanced and subtle points of Le Guin's writing. I don't think our discussions would be improved by someone asking, however politely, for a passionate debate on questions like - oh, let's say - whether feminism emasculates men, or whether fantasy-reading is just an evasive escape from reality. I think we'd be all agreed here that the answers to both these questions is "no," but that attempts to present that argument would be better conducted in some noisier, more general, outside forum. We shouldn't have to defend our basic presuppositions every time we consider the implications that follow from them, especially in a forum designed for like-minded friends. David Bratman At 06:29 PM 1/9/2006 -0800, William L. Houts wrote: >I agree with you in part, David. It's clear that I have more manners than >sense. But suicidal? I wasn'tjust trying to tweak noses. I was hoping for >a passionate argument to the effect that all of MY basic presuppositions >were wrong. I was hoping to be instructed by people whose ideas have >interested me for a long time. Probably inappropriate in the end, but >still, what a lost opportunity. > >You bring up the whole question of boundaries, which is another concern of >mine. If I had gone on the list and said, You're all wrong because suffering >is necessary and I KNOW because my Church told me --well, that certainly >WOULD be high nastiness on my part, and a smackdown would be forthcoming. >But to go on the list and do a little testing of the boundaries by ASKING, >If you know nothing of suffering, can you paint a STARRY NIGHT, a GUERNICA >or compose a Ninth Symphony --is that really out of bounds? And if so, do >we sometimes NEED a Transgressor to stumble in and make a stink sometimes?In >order to figure out the difference between what we've been told and what wwe >REALLY know? > >Granted, I'm a pain in the ass, but those are interesting questions, aren't >they? Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:31:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.55]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C4AC9CB3F3 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:01:05 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=r7nA1IRLZNAVsmJx9S5uQrxdmNF/1fINaFKylreeMahNYvJjHaCajLarGD9XzdSckz2Wk0/nLSAMlN0cOq2031u1ruC+O1vbCBlhb1PpnO5xj7R9ou9FHxeD2IvgOXuc; Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 05:01:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 05:01:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: abraxael@drizzle.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31706 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 05:01:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 05:01:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jetspin.drizzle.com) (216.162.192.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 05:01:03 -0000 Received: from 8mkkx01 (wet105.drizzle.com [216.162.201.105]) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id k0A512MD006085 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:01:02 -0800 Message-ID: <002401c615a2$ddd1b070$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> To: References: <000501c61563$ff215d00$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> <43C2DC1B.9060404@comcast.net> <4.1.20060109161724.009adf00@mail.earthlink.net> <4.1.20060109195703.00ab6bd0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 216.162.192.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "William L. Houts" Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:01:07 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Consequently any attempt, however politely phrased, to query their basic suppositions _in that forum_ will disrupt the conversation and is likely to be perceived as the act of a troll. I think that this is where we disagree. My post, as you have pointed out, was interpreted as a troll and was dealt with as such: well and good. They're entitled. But what sort of self-respecting philosophy can't address the kinds of questions I posed?If the moderator had told me: "Look pal,we've dealt with this suffering-is-crucial-to-human-creativity thang ad nauseam and we're BORED to death, now sod off!" --well,I would have felt ashamed and you wouldn't be reading any of this. But what happened is that the whole question was simply ignored. And if you read any amount of transhumanist stuff, up to including the works of the illustrious Mr. Kurzweil, youfind that it's ALWAYS ignored. The significance of suffering in human existence is simply wished away with gene therapy or an exotic implant. Few if any transhumanist types appear to be asking the questions I posed. So for the duration of a single post, I became a gadfly in the transhumanist bonnet. It seems to me that someone's got to do that, and it might as well be someone with a sense of humor about himself and respect for the feelings of others. --Bill Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:32:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.227]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DBC28CB404 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:10:19 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=GT7TayRzHj7IRhbejQve6/bwxP+ZKwJlAr+IUVM/kKLlNDy/DpFw4f0U7O9n8mqIqDyhYNBQBwzjCCg0WwtXui/6+4esBs2wa9QeDsle4W8ZUv8XGTMcccmeiGAtgllP; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n7.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 16:10:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 16:10:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 16:10:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 76442 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 16:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 16:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 16:10:15 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 16:06:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 16:06:44 -0000 X-Sender: LGale@aeufederal.org.au X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48429 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 05:08:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 05:08:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.aeufederal.org.au) (203.63.5.3) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 05:08:13 -0000 content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Message-ID: <6F9CE5EBF1854243B51FC100B9D835620444D2@aeudc.aeufederal.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <6F9CE5EBF1854243B51FC100B9D835620444D2@aeudc.aeufederal.local> Thread-Topic: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Thread-Index: AcYVot4SL+VQ84FNRRi2iu6HqjFz3QAAFfhd To: X-Originating-IP: 203.63.5.3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4:0 From: "Linda Gale" X-Yahoo-Profile: lindaplp X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 10 Jan 2006 16:06:42 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:08:09 +1100 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey guys, i'm finding the thread about UKL's writing and the understandings it conveys about power, communication, and the failures of both, really interesting. But I'm a hell of a lot less interested in the discussion about netiquette on another list. If you want to take the discussion any further about whether or not Bill should have raised the issue of human suffering on the transhumanist list, could you maybe kick off a new subject line for that thread? Linda -----Original Message----- From: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com on behalf of William L. Houts Sent: Tue 10/01/2006 4:01 PM To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Cc: Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:31:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.42]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 69DE64424C for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:50:50 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=BthnIbDoTsmXi+smrgyA+CjlrwQhbvgUQN56e5xO4QoOb9N3ljU3hHiqdIuYpk/2PPujSYwerHMk0aC/3eg5/Qz+dL8I8bMNr0bEgewQjtVQ92158uxi47M8aMlU6FBm; Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 05:50:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.35] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 05:50:50 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: mayaward@yahoo.com.au X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36382 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 05:50:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 05:50:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31705.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.201.185) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 05:50:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 71546 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jan 2006 05:50:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20060110055047.71544.qmail@web31705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.51.133.193] by web31705.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:50:47 EST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 68.142.201.185 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: maya ward X-Yahoo-Profile: mayaward Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:50:47 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Thanks for your question Kim How should 'we' respond? Can't be sure what you mean, so I will reply to what your post brings up in me. I last wrote years ago to this list, telling my story of walking the length of the river of the city where I live, from the sea to the source high in the mountains, inspired, in part, by Le Guin's characters - small (yet vast), brave, humble people following the path. I did it because I wanted to experience something of how the indigenous people of Australia understood their place/their soul. And what happened changed me forever. It was my imaginative - and literal - journeying towards other ways of knowing which created new pathways in my mind. That was how I responded to the disgusting treatment of indigenous people in this country - to walk towards them and their ancient knowings. And to then tell this story as widely as I can, with the authority of the experience that cannot help but command attention. So I try to respond not by abstract activism but by becoming more like those that are oppressed -and through this find a different, richer freedom. Oh but oppressed gives the entirely wrong impression - in its hierarchical language it obscures the truth the Ursula write of again and again - the magical power reversals of taoism. In The Telling when she walks into the mountains and becomes part of their lives - yet because she straddles worlds she can possibly help save these very worlds. Isn't that what we are all trying to do, with guidance from our magnificent elder? love Maya Kim McCollum-Clark wrote: Bill, Hi, and thanks for transgressing! I really appreciate this thread a lot, although part of my brain is still grappling with Òtrans-humanistÓÑI must have missed that on my web-travels. . . Anyway, for everyone. . . , I wanted to pose a UKL question in relation to this thread. . . I am a UKL newbie in many ways, though a devoted one (especially to the Earthsea books, which make me cry and shake my head in wonder). When I was reading The Telling, I was struck with many questions about how one SHOULD respond to suffering and wrong-doing. The culture being dismantled in The TellingÑhow should ÒweÓ respond? I recall thinking some of my confusion may stem from my utter ignorance of Taoism. . . how does a Taoist respond to the Òwrong-doingÓ? My religious tradition is QuakerÑthe Religious Society of Friends, properly known. Quakers are pacifists, but not Òpassivists.Ó From their inception (around 1600 AD in England), they have been ferocious fighters for those imprisoned, those enslaved (abolitionists in the US Civil War, for example.) They do not fight militarily, but they do ÒfightÓ in the sense of opposing what they define as wrong-doing. I felt something different was being valued in The TellingÑand even in the most recent YA book, Gifts. But I canÕt yet wrap my brain around it. UKL does that to me, time and again: she leads me in places I canÕt yet go. . but I wouldnÕt get there at all if she didnÕt lead. . . My apologies if this takes us too far afield. Kim McCollum On 1/9/06 9:29 PM, "William L. Houts" wrote: >> >> You have a point, but it's not one I'd make on a transhumanist mailing >> list. Arguing to an entire list, however politely, that its basic >> presupposition is wrong seems ... needlessly suicidal. > > > I agree with you in part, David. It's clear that I have more manners than > sense. But suicidal? I wasn'tjust trying to tweak noses. I was hoping for > a passionate argument to the effect that all of MY basic presuppositions > were wrong. I was hoping to be instructed by people whose ideas have > interested me for a long time. Probably inappropriate in the end, but > still, what a lost opportunity. > > You bring up the whole question of boundaries, which is another concern of > mine. If I had gone on the list and said, You're all wrong because suffering > is necessary and I KNOW because my Church told me --well, that certainly > WOULD be high nastiness on my part, and a smackdown would be forthcoming. > But to go on the list and do a little testing of the boundaries by ASKING, > If you know nothing of suffering, can you paint a STARRY NIGHT, a GUERNICA > or compose a Ninth Symphony --is that really out of bounds? And if so, do > we sometimes NEED a Transgressor to stumble in and make a stink sometimes?In > order to figure out the difference between what we've been told and what wwe > REALLY know? > > Granted, I'm a pain in the ass, but those are interesting questions, aren't > they? > > > --Bill > > > I don't know the answer, but at the moment I (obviously, duh)feel sympathy > for the Transgressor position. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Science fiction and fantasy Literary agent fiction Guin --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Never miss an Instant Message - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:31:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.53]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 72C37103CA5 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 03:23:30 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=TovOBn4J486dHjDcx9xOg8p2lo6VwdW/cW8b5eO2RpaMxufia0uisSJqg/e7o5CDKrARJdAB8Tn+ELvW1zjWQBmvGKGHelOnXzdCVs641dsF5dZEfANNoIIBbT6BLMn9; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 11:23:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.93] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 11:23:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40902 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 11:23:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 11:23:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 11:23:25 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 11:23:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 11:23:24 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.43 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:23:23 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List, Thank you for so much discussion. I really enjoyed it. And even though I am everything BUT a master of words, I did seem to get across what I wanted to discuss. By the way I#m Paula. > I think that this is a really important point about Le Guin's > writing. In some cases, she does write about apparently open > societies -- think Anarres. But even on Anarres there are many > problems with power and with lack of communication. Yes, I have always read this the same way. > As I see it, when you look at the range of Le Guin's work, she is > (among other things) writing about power and the lack (or > difficulties or blockages) of communication, . This is what draws me to the books, because Madame writes about people who transcend blockages. > But what > is, to me, part of the real genius of Le Guin's work is her ability > to see other kinds of power and blockages, and portray them well. Most importantly they learn to communicate with themselves (so to speak). Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:31:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n2a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n2a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.222]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3FDBFCB3F3 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:10:08 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=aME4KaUjWPbUYDU0ZGJGHWgEfPz1la+KZENxX9CWB21lglN/SxzcDsKLGLCoOVLLWJWatOcvVzm1nB0+nfUCZBo8yspCC9ihiWdVKm3KWAxa9jG/ya5wFuKUvNtNpTAc; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 12:10:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 12:10:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 12:10:06 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54826 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 12:10:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 12:10:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.31) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 12:10:05 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([81.84.16.3] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:09:43 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.1.20060109143556.00a1a770@mail.earthlink.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2006 12:09:43.0243 (UTC) FILETIME=[BD79B1B0:01C615DE] X-Originating-IP: 212.113.174.31 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: rowcliffe Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:09:41 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson+ Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A very valid point about self-censorship, David. So often and all too often, we are our own worst enemy. The War on Art by Steven Pressfield addresses this point. It is a big problem for virtually all of us. Monoculture subtlety is very powerful and, though, inspired by Ursula's words to consider alternatives, that inspiration tends to consolation rather than action. You tend to wait for the next book thinking that it will provide the answer. It is very hard not to accommodate. I can't say I have found an answer myself other than trying to connect with nature. Best wishes Ian on 06/1/9 22:41, David Bratman at dbratman@earthlink.net wrote: > At 01:31 PM 1/9/2006 -0800, William L. Houts wrote: > >> The name "the United States of America" isn't in itself a talisman against >> repression. People here have the same problems which have lead to fascist >> nightmares in other countries. > > Nor is a "fascist nightmare" even necessary to make Le Guin's point. In > her essay "The Stalin in the Soul" (in The Language of the Night) she > observes that self-censorship, when it operates, is just as effective as > any other form of censorship. If you don't write your masterwork because > you can't be bothered or because you've bartered your soul and time away, > it's just as unavailable as it would be if the secret police locked you up > and burned your papers. Le Guin is very concerned with this issue of > self-expression, and thus it comes out in so many of her works. > >> People have been saying for at least a hundred years that a totalitarian >> takeover could never happen here. Sinclair Lewis even wrote a novel about >> this. But it IS happening right now. > > It happened in Sinclair Lewis, too. His title "It Can't Happen Here" is > sarcastic. In the novel, it does happen. > > David Bratman > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:31:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.35]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 055684422F for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:32:28 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=O2GQebZVOA3/2uB1CbFtBMUWiSIoquX8Gr4ZWAgkGA6re2k8qn0BQedDMrAnmOUuy3s77i5BEdJl3inC0WX0N8jqgdARWSgaB1qFF0RYO2GZ+FHkmJY3zt7ZW9H67s/1; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 12:32:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.106] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 12:32:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28989 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 12:32:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 12:32:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.31) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 12:32:27 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([81.84.16.3] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:32:04 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060110055047.71544.qmail@web31705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2006 12:32:04.0726 (UTC) FILETIME=[DD0FC160:01C615E1] X-Originating-IP: 212.113.174.31 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: rowcliffe Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:32:00 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson++ Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Maya Just to say that I remember your river-walk. It was an imaginative way of getting to grips with an issue. Interesting conclusion. Best wishes Ian on 06/1/10 05:50, maya ward at mayaward@yahoo.com.au wrote: > Thanks for your question Kim > How should 'we' respond? Can't be sure what you mean, so I will reply to what > your post brings up in me. I last wrote years ago to this list, telling my > story of walking the length of the river of the city where I live, from the > sea to the source high in the mountains, inspired, in part, by Le Guin's > characters - small (yet vast), brave, humble people following the path. I did > it because I wanted to experience something of how the indigenous people of > Australia understood their place/their soul. And what happened changed me > forever. It was my imaginative - and literal - journeying towards other ways > of knowing which created new pathways in my mind. That was how I responded to > the disgusting treatment of indigenous people in this country - to walk > towards them and their ancient knowings. And to then tell this story as widely > as I can, with the authority of the experience that cannot help but command > attention. So I try to respond not by abstract activism but by becoming more > like > those that are oppressed -and through this find a different, richer freedom. > Oh but oppressed gives the entirely wrong impression - in its hierarchical > language it obscures the truth the Ursula write of again and again - the > magical power reversals of taoism. In The Telling when she walks into the > mountains and becomes part of their lives - yet because she straddles worlds > she can possibly help save these very worlds. Isn't that what we are all > trying to do, with guidance from our magnificent elder? > love Maya > > > Kim McCollum-Clark wrote: > Bill, > > Hi, and thanks for transgressing! I really appreciate this thread a lot, > although part of my brain is still grappling with Òtrans-humanistÓÑI must > have missed that on my web-travels. . . > > Anyway, for everyone. . . , I wanted to pose a UKL question in relation to > this thread. . . I am a UKL newbie in many ways, though a devoted one > (especially to the Earthsea books, which make me cry and shake my head in > wonder). > > When I was reading The Telling, I was struck with many questions about how > one SHOULD respond to suffering and wrong-doing. The culture being > dismantled in The TellingÑhow should ÒweÓ respond? I recall thinking some > of my confusion may stem from my utter ignorance of Taoism. . . how does a > Taoist respond to the Òwrong-doingÓ? > > My religious tradition is QuakerÑthe Religious Society of Friends, properly > known. Quakers are pacifists, but not Òpassivists.Ó From their inception > (around 1600 AD in England), they have been ferocious fighters for those > imprisoned, those enslaved (abolitionists in the US Civil War, for example.) > They do not fight militarily, but they do ÒfightÓ in the sense of opposing > what they define as wrong-doing. I felt something different was being > valued in The TellingÑand even in the most recent YA book, Gifts. But I > canÕt yet wrap my brain around it. UKL does that to me, time and again: she > leads me in places I canÕt yet go. . but I wouldnÕt get there at all if she > didnÕt lead. . . > > My apologies if this takes us too far afield. > > > Kim McCollum > > > > > On 1/9/06 9:29 PM, "William L. Houts" wrote: > >>> >>> You have a point, but it's not one I'd make on a transhumanist mailing >>> list. Arguing to an entire list, however politely, that its basic >>> presupposition is wrong seems ... needlessly suicidal. >> >> >> I agree with you in part, David. It's clear that I have more manners than >> sense. But suicidal? I wasn'tjust trying to tweak noses. I was hoping for >> a passionate argument to the effect that all of MY basic presuppositions >> were wrong. I was hoping to be instructed by people whose ideas have >> interested me for a long time. Probably inappropriate in the end, but >> still, what a lost opportunity. >> >> You bring up the whole question of boundaries, which is another concern of >> mine. If I had gone on the list and said, You're all wrong because suffering >> is necessary and I KNOW because my Church told me --well, that certainly >> WOULD be high nastiness on my part, and a smackdown would be forthcoming. >> But to go on the list and do a little testing of the boundaries by ASKING, >> If you know nothing of suffering, can you paint a STARRY NIGHT, a GUERNICA >> or compose a Ninth Symphony --is that really out of bounds? And if so, do >> we sometimes NEED a Transgressor to stumble in and make a stink sometimes?In >> order to figure out the difference between what we've been told and what wwe >> REALLY know? >> >> Granted, I'm a pain in the ass, but those are interesting questions, aren't >> they? >> >> >> --Bill >> >> >> I don't know the answer, but at the moment I (obviously, duh)feel sympathy >> for the Transgressor position. >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Science fiction and fantasy Literary agent fiction Guin > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Never miss an Instant Message - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 15:32:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.41]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1633910321F for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:53:31 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=gb61xtzdaJhEX0ECruEUcN1wYQq6ntKg3ek6P+COw/pQ/51oC+z/e63WKhm2cxoxsz0Xl0WK88Zy7+gXgpnY2xtkshfSIuHZwZUd36Bln7Q5G786L/n+0GFskRqN6KAc; Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 16:53:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 16:53:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: abraxael@drizzle.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81882 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 16:53:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 16:53:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jetspin.drizzle.com) (216.162.192.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 16:53:16 -0000 Received: from 8mkkx01 (wet105.drizzle.com [216.162.201.105]) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id k0AGrEWr020796 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:53:14 -0800 Message-ID: <003801c61606$5c6dea80$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> To: References: <6F9CE5EBF1854243B51FC100B9D835620444D2@aeudc.aeufederal.local> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 216.162.192.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "William L. Houts" Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:53:19 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Linda, I'm very sorry about that. I think we're all done now. Please forgive the interruption. --Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Gale" To: Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:08 PM Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson > Hey guys, i'm finding the thread about UKL's writing and the > understandings it conveys about power, communication, and the failures of > both, really interesting. But I'm a hell of a lot less interested in the > discussion about netiquette on another list. If you want to take the > discussion any further about whether or not Bill should have raised the > issue of human suffering on the transhumanist list, could you maybe kick > off a new subject line for that thread? Linda > > -----Original Message----- > From: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com on behalf of William L. Houts > Sent: Tue 10/01/2006 4:01 PM > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Cc: > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 10 19:40:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.44]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A7B35103D36 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:55:01 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=q7NQpswzMxcfPxMRXoWURocYcfmmNWk4ayySXek1HBppBG+u3SDGIcOauCbvzlRvgjNulTDUgMUMjLGwVqtF4VAN8V3Pb/pHDbxY4ooCCTzJ1FQNwHwGsqNIWM4M7JiN; Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 21:55:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 21:55:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53668 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 21:54:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 21:54:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 21:54:56 -0000 Received: from du-040-0248.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.248] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1EwRQt-0008QA-Fu for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:53:36 +0000 Message-ID: <006501c61630$4f71d7e0$f8749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: <000501c61563$ff215d00$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.143 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:53:36 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Continuing to Read/history lesson Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'Blocked communication (and power) can take interesting forms. Part > of what fascinates me about the Left Hand of Darkness is that > Estraven's communication with those in power on Winter is blocked by > political power and personal disputes -- what I would say I see as > the traditional forms of blocked communication, at least in my study > of politics -- whereas Genly Ai's blocked communication with Estraven > -- Ah, what would say of that? Genly Ai comes from an open and > communicative society, and his goal is to be open and communicative > -- and yet, all the time, we see his preconceptions getting in the > way of his ability to communicate with Estraven. It takes Genly Ai > hundreds of pages, a trip across the ice, and Estraven's death before > he understands can break through those preconceptions.' Peter This is a profound point, and I think a really central theme of UKL's writing. A similarly moving example to Ai and Estraven is the relationship between Solly and Teyeo in Forgiveness Day in Four Ways to Forgiveness. I think this links into this fascinating correspondence (what a lovely surprise to come home and suddenly find all these interesting postings!) Other writers bring lovers together after monumental misunderstandings and initial dislikes, but one special way UKL deals with this is in the context of their cultural differences and also again the issue of radical politics - with the twist that the kidnappers are idealistic amateurs who do not know how to deal with a female envoy in a repressive male society. Another interesting link I found in this story (if reliable - anyone Japanese out there?) was an echo to Teyeo's training to sit still starting at age 2 when I recently reread Snow falling on Ceders by David Guterson and found that Hatsue received similar training (if rather later in life). Hannah Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jan 27 08:52:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n8a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n8a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.231]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A080CB3BF for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 01:43:10 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=K0FRMDbRYhcD+P3yiE+lXxyJZWl82Wg8YmpymWvkt4HD7lO0GNY4lowz+XHLzSgILsDzufngndQIwAK5Thsqu8ecW6wc5NL8G1dfoqpVPFAsNgIwd0WblIcFTTHdNjVf; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n8.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 09:43:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 09:43:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.93] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 09:43:09 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24166 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2006 09:43:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2006 09:43:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fmmailgate05.web.de) (217.72.192.243) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2006 09:43:06 -0000 Received: by fmmailgate05.web.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/webde Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id k0R98H2r004582 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:08:17 +0100 Received: from [172.208.179.63] (helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp05.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (WEB.DE 4.105 #340) id 1F2PXa-0005zq-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:05:13 +0100 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-Id: <17329374-27DF-4D64-A9BE-F9CD939D44D0@web.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Originating-IP: 217.72.192.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Diane Severson X-Yahoo-Profile: divadiane1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:03:42 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] The Female Man Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello! OK, it was half an age ago that Hannah posted about The Female Man, and I apologize to Hannah for taking so long! I did read the Female Man by Joanna Russ back in November, so I hope I can remember the important points. One of my biggest problems though, is going to be relating it to LeGuin's work. I think their styles are completely different. UKL's writing has something very calm about it that I really appreciate. I also find her very clear. That was perhaps what I didnt like about the Female Man. I found Russ' writing style to be rather strange. I often had no idea what she was talking about and it was not always clear whose voice it was, so I found myself quite often confused. But maybe that was the point, I don't know. Russ' writing style seemed to me to be very agitated, and I found myself rather nervous and shook up, without really knowing why. Perhaps a question for the members who haven't read the Female Man would be, how does UKL's writing affect you? What do you like about her style (or dislike)? For Hannah and others who have read the Female Man, I'd like to respond to Hannah's post from November 1. The Female Man was a really slow start. I was about half way through the book before I got involved. Me too - I think I was about half way through before I figured anything out. Maybe I should just re-read it! 2. Attitudes to men. UKL has her share of awful and narrow and bigoted men but she also has a range of men you can relate to and admire UKL's characters (not just men) are 3 dimensional. They may have loathsome characteristics which are the focus, but most of the time we are shown other sides as well or some sort of reason why they are how they are. The Men in The Female Man were mostly just bad or stupid - 1 sided people and there weren't many of them. As the title suggests the best "male" character was actually female. - but to be fair Joanna Russ is doing something more subtle than that, contrasting a number of different approaches to female roles leading to my 3rd point Yes, I think it's important to remember when this book was written and the circumstances in which it was created. Anyone who studies Feminism or the Feminist Movement or Gender Studies should read this book. 3. Interesting feminist ideas. Oh yes she has a number of those! The feminist slant on the parallel universe idea is clever, the wholly female world making an interesting contrast to Gethen, where people are potential and not male or female, this a more constructed version - the aggressive segregated world with some parallels with Werrel and Yeowe. And the male sex slave construct a refreshing parody of male porn Other interesting books which imagine a female-only society where men aren't needed at all are: Herland by Charlotte Perkins Gilman (written in 1915!) and Ammonite by Nicola Griffith, both of which I think are more accessible and less angry than the Female Man. You can read Herland online at: http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/GilHerl.html Diane Diane Severson divadiane@web.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jan 27 08:52:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.36]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BB464CB2CD for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 04:18:24 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=upYDdqmg1a07hP7soBk687mq7RfUOe8YKqOZLbN0QOJjA+wBVSmjKvo05jnoocZJAhr69v81VklqrkuoTpDASQtipWhi5FCmczS6L6rvkXopG+WbSlgfsGXTETOBJATb; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 12:18:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 12:18:24 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41711 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2006 12:18:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2006 12:18:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26210.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.12.10.247) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2006 12:18:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 12955 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jan 2006 12:11:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20060127121117.12953.qmail@web26210.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.244.29.251] by web26210.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:11:17 CET To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <17329374-27DF-4D64-A9BE-F9CD939D44D0@web.de> X-Originating-IP: 217.12.10.247 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Lakso V." X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:11:17 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Female Man Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- Diane Severson ha scritto: > I did read the Female Man by Joanna Russ back in November, so I > hope I can remember the important points. I did read it almost ten years ago, anyway I can remember my impression: Joanna Russ wanted a female society where women were actually like men, trying to demonstrate that women *are* up to (this was obvious to me, anyway I remember my feeling to be unwelcome in Russ' vision, being male) On the other hand, I started reading Le Guin works with the (nice) sensation that the society depicted in her book was welcoming me, being the fact to be male or female with not such important, basically because people can be different and yet not opposite. > read the Female Man would be, how does UKL's writing affect you? Difficult question. I *hope* that the fact of having read her works do really affect my behaviour. > What do you like about her style (or dislike)? Another difficult question. I like the characters development, mostly. I like topics also (talking about SF or fantasy). > 2. Attitudes to men. UKL has her share of awful and narrow and > bigoted men but she also has a range of men you can relate to > and admire UKL's characters (not just men) are 3 dimensional. I strongly agree (^__^ this is like the options of TOEFL test, do you agree or disagree with the following topic...) I strongly agree with the fact that there is room enough for men in UKL works. There is not in JR works, like the short story Whileaway (I think this is the title). > how they are. The Men in The Female Man were mostly just bad or > stupid - 1 sided people and there weren't many of them. As the title > suggests the best "male" character was actually female. Yep > 3. Interesting feminist ideas. Oh yes she has a number of those! The > feminist slant on the parallel universe idea is clever, the wholly > female world making an interesting contrast to Gethen, where people are > potential and not male or female, this a more constructed version - the > aggressive segregated world with some parallels with Werrel and Yeowe. Yep > Other interesting books which imagine a female-only society where men > aren't needed at all are: Herland by Charlotte Perkins Gilman > (written in 1915!) and Ammonite by Nicola Griffith, both of which I > think are more accessible and less angry than the Female Man. You > can read Herland online at: > > http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/GilHerl.html I did not know it. Another book I think may be interestin is "Egalia's daughters" by Gerd Brantenberg... Ciao, Lakso ___________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jan 27 15:45:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.44]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5845D104177 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 11:49:39 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=TjSfDlwCIT2UWhLrHr+k5k74bkwKpBa2ILoDTSxIQ4ezs1oWpgvuP2oe0NnliR+8xWt25nqeiEjBbuFGlECToCBLXN6Kz0RpP9O1O6IwwIyB1efYorZxvjcyOE7oMdcA; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 19:49:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 19:49:38 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: swamp_canary@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12606 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2006 19:49:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2006 19:49:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.227) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2006 19:49:36 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n7.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 19:46:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 19:46:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 19:46:14 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.1.20051217004129.009c8e20@mail.earthlink.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.227 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.223.241.197 From: "Virginia Ryan" X-Yahoo-Profile: kemtri98 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:46:14 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: UKL interview in the Guardian Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I resisted reading the Harry Potter books for years because the whole concept seemed so derivative; both of _A Wizard of Earthsea_ and of Neil Gaiman's excellent graphic novel _The Books of Magic_. Harry Potter even looks like Tim Hunter. Gaiman graciously blew it off as coincidence, but I have my doubts. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 21:50:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.43]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id ABCD6CB315 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 03:01:57 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=DPEVNRLgjK0XPCozbIiBMBljNseBJGivAcrEfRpNp/sUY9i4hnsxEF7FAmB9KVG8sTcSukMyjSwv6kHLU+LRrz4bErQsunH2wGWdIh0NhjlYxutYcc3m4A6e42rCjdbZ; Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 11:01:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 11:01:57 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: schwelle@libero.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45829 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 11:01:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 11:01:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.libero.it) (193.70.192.52) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 11:01:55 -0000 Received: from localhost (172.16.1.74) by smtp2.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 439D90690382A545 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:01:50 +0100 Received: from smtp1.libero.it ([172.16.1.97]) by localhost (asav16.libero.it [193.70.193.3]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27123-07-9 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:01:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from libero.it (172.16.1.111) by smtp1.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 431C3A4201819D95 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:01:50 +0100 Message-Id: X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "the-ekumen" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.3 (R1) (B3pl11) X-SenderIP: 157.138.217.35 X-Scanned: with antispam and antivirus automated system at libero.it X-Originating-IP: 193.70.192.52 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "schwelle@libero.it" X-Yahoo-Profile: nonchiederci Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:01:49 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: UKL interview in the Guardian Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:46:14 -0000 > From: "Virginia Ryan" > Subject: Re: UKL interview in the Guardian > > I resisted reading the Harry Potter books for years because the whole > concept seemed so derivative; both of _A Wizard of Earthsea_ and of > Neil Gaiman's excellent graphic novel _The Books of Magic_. Harry > Potter even looks like Tim Hunter. Gaiman graciously blew it off as > coincidence, but I have my doubts. The HP books do not shine for their originality, but I don't see how they could be considered derivative from these two novels: HP books lack the insight and pace (and scope)of _A Wizard of Earthsea_ and the only element in common with _The Books of Magic_ is given by Tim Hunters phisical appearance and general obnoxiousness-a friend who read J.Rowlings books first even remarked about this carbon-copy quality (thinking J.Rowlings work previous to N.Gaimans work) .. and concluded that _The Books of Magic_ was still better than the supposed "original". Heh.So much for the "literature event" of the decade. Cheers, Paola/Paula Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 21:52:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [209.73.160.85]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E7F4CB460 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 06:02:10 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=FetBC86WxoFl0zFroiql4XYrjDTBJ8ff9aVUyrWz/bGFPAD7zEXGfzQAJOkvoo0htIGN5FzVLuoLcZV4WmgSFk+HEHS6gOZD8Z/lq2lr9m5EZ2hrQh7ceS1ERkoB+8gr; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 08:05:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 14:02:10 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85911 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 14:02:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 14:02:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fmmailgate04.web.de) (217.72.192.242) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 14:02:04 -0000 Received: by fmmailgate04.web.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/webde Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id k0UC2FSb032058 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:02:15 +0100 Received: from [172.176.52.230] (helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp06.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (WEB.DE 4.105 #340) id 1F3Xi5-0003iS-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:00:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1138453312.126.95294.m19@yahoogroups.com> References: <1138453312.126.95294.m19@yahoogroups.com> Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Originating-IP: 217.72.192.242 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Diane Severson X-Yahoo-Profile: divadiane1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:58:33 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: UKL interview in the Guardian Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I resisted reading Harry Potter for a while too, but then, my mother gave me the first one for Christmas, thinking I would like it, because I read so much Fantasy and SF. So, I read it, after all, it didn't cost me much it being a rather short book. But my suspicions were confirmed - it IS very derivative. Although it is a good story and well written, there really is nothing very new or special about it. There was nothing really of what I love about good SF and Fantasy - something that catches the imagination, explores an aspect of the human condition or makes something outrageous seem normal :-). Diane > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:46:14 -0000 > From: "Virginia Ryan" > Subject: Re: UKL interview in the Guardian > > I resisted reading the Harry Potter books for years because the whole > concept seemed so derivative; both of _A Wizard of Earthsea_ and of > Neil Gaiman's excellent graphic novel _The Books of Magic_. Harry > Potter even looks like Tim Hunter. Gaiman graciously blew it off as > coincidence, but I have my doubts. > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > > Diane Severson divadiane@web.de Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 21:52:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.226]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AAA88102626 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 06:41:04 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Pkwm8TlaeLzalW3lGSAPrLcBr2F+YmNj1OHSgWX5IFvjDsocbcJ/1cWZCowlGvXq1RezEyCKwFIA0yeEYidhbXhSeJk1b+1DF7PZeCDKGzMtx7FcmGK7SXGLOwkLTUbK; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n6.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 14:41:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 14:41:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.106] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 14:41:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55967 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 14:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 14:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.227) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 14:41:00 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n7.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 14:38:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 14:38:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 14:38:25 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.227 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:38:24 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: UKL interview in the Guardian Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have to agree that the books aren't outragiously good, but they are written for children and are concerned with childrens concerns (I should probably say young adult). The story is solid, consistent and varies enough to not be boring, more than is bearable. As long as there has been mass publication there have been books for young adults. They change a little bit from generation to generation, from ideologie to ideologie. The only real difference is the setting in a magical world. You have the whole list of school, romantic, sports etc. problems, mixed in with a few charms. The characters are typical/stereotypical of (especially) anglo-saxon young-adult literature. The problem isn't so much Harry Potter himself, but ADULTS going crazy about a growing-up-story. A teenager might recognize him/herself in the books but not a 30 year old. I'm not sure why they do. Maybe they fall for the whole: I'm-a-stupid-kid-but-can-beat-the- bad-guy-nobody-else-can-bit. the world we live in is so rife with wars, terror and just the little things we are afraid of that maybe a kid going out to defeat all this can becom an idol. Of course there are lots and lots of much better books about this (I must believe this, otherwise I wouldn#t be on this site). My point is don't bash harry potter so much, but the hypemakers trying to make merchandise money off a solid childrensbook. I'm glad that this doesn't happen to LeGuins books, I don't think I could live with a lot of mangled up movie/TV/merchandise versions of my favorite books. This is really too much said on this subject, but I'll post it anyway, maybe next time I will post on a more important thread. Paula. PS: I startet Herland. I really like it. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 21:57:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n5a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n5a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.39]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E7932CB2E7 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:03:52 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Q7q3NTBv6FmI8UIdU2Sl995TvDHjhQqbxDATjFgYKsC3SsEWuyr0D8ozg2gjSry1ZJMuWDKz1jbNihliN2IuftB8YtRXiJik9Sc04eVEtWdg5DLUg4Gnk5kiXh3Apj1z; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 21:03:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 21:03:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59589 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 21:03:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 21:03:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 21:03:30 -0000 Received: from du-040-0180.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.180] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1F3g9a-000ByS-GP for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:01:38 +0000 Message-ID: <006a01c625e0$5de68bd0$b4749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: <1138453312.126.95294.m19@yahoogroups.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.141 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:01:39 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: UKL interview in the Guardian Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By the way Diane the later HP books are less short! They have been very successful at geting children, particularly boys, to like reading and for thay JKR gets my praise. Also I must confess that we have read them together in my family and enjoyed them. They're good page turning adventure stories with lots of fun ideas about magic mixed up with teenagers and sub teenagers. And my kids have had fun with the hype thing about getting them as soon as they are released - why not? Lots of very clever marketing from day 1. But of course no competition with UKL for profundity, poetry and complexity. In thirty years time who will have survived best? Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Severson" To: Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 11:58 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: UKL interview in the Guardian > > > > I resisted reading Harry Potter for a while too, but then, my mother > gave me the first one for Christmas, thinking I would like it, > because I read so much Fantasy and SF. So, I read it, after all, it > didn't cost me much it being a rather short book. But my suspicions > were confirmed - it IS very derivative. Although it is a good story > and well written, there really is nothing very new or special about > it. There was nothing really of what I love about good SF and > Fantasy - something that catches the imagination, explores an aspect > of the human condition or makes something outrageous seem normal :-). > > Diane > >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:46:14 -0000 >> From: "Virginia Ryan" >> Subject: Re: UKL interview in the Guardian >> >> I resisted reading the Harry Potter books for years because the whole >> concept seemed so derivative; both of _A Wizard of Earthsea_ and of >> Neil Gaiman's excellent graphic novel _The Books of Magic_. Harry >> Potter even looks like Tim Hunter. Gaiman graciously blew it off as >> coincidence, but I have my doubts. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> __ >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> __ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >> >> >> > > Diane Severson > divadiane@web.de > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 22:02:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [209.73.160.86]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9BFBFCB4CF for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:41:32 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=MXj4BDaJdCOuQpYgzc1zo6wFAvD1h70Jn/RbgmyScUhwQUaWy42PLWyuXrwPWiGD2DuIssu11OtX0ZMtDVpeEySzA8WXC8LSinGkpNAVbqV5d1XFNTbj+vrOVu4EJlU/; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2006 17:42:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2006 23:41:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: swamp_canary@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15869 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 23:40:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 23:40:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 23:40:58 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2006 23:40:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2006 23:40:02 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.39 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 67.171.247.134 From: "Virginia Ryan" X-Yahoo-Profile: kemtri98 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 23:40:01 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: UKL interview in the Guardian Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I never said I didn't enjoy the Harry Potter books - I'll happily confess to having read each and every one. I just said that I resisted reading them for a long time. When I have a favorite book, and I notice what appears to be a derivative work, I feel an irrational sense of resentment against the new work. That's why I can't stand to read most "fantasy" novels, especially the D&D variety: they're almost all built on Tolkien's foundation, and none of them live up to his genius. Science fiction is the same way, if to a lesser extent. What I want from an author is depth and originality. When I finally did read Harry Potter (out of boredom), I enjoyed it as an amusing way to pass the time. The characters are realistic and the world is clever and whimsical. But once you get past the bright colors and the whimsy, you find dark themes of vengeance and cruelty. And certainly, the substance and subtlety of UKL's works are lacking. So, to summarize, I have nothing against the Harry Potter books. I do have a wistful regret that the Earthsea books (which are more thoughtful, better written, and carry a better message) could not reach the vast audience that Harry Potter has found. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 22:06:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.221]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D567442C0 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:15:40 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=YyTW3zdMrvTax2bfoKfS7ArlNsopJujq94DlnRNRkQhiNtLuZfmWt2G8L3QJCuqVd75Ym03RcBpldIt3KeChm8I1lfx/0XGqPFb39VH40hXr36MB8Wt72+T0lNLSZXJb; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 00:15:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 00:15:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 00:15:39 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: swamp_canary@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57310 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2006 00:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2006 00:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2006 00:15:35 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 00:10:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.71] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 00:10:32 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.52 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.223.241.197 From: "Virginia Ryan" X-Yahoo-Profile: kemtri98 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 00:10:32 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Studio Ghibli does Earthsea Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe this is old news, but it appears that Studio Ghibli (Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke, Castle in the Sky)will be making a film based on Earthsea. http://www.ghibli.jp/ Personally, I love Studio Ghibli and have high hopes for any adaptation they do. At any rate, it's bound to be highly superior to that SciFi Channel travesty. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 22:06:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n5a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n5a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.39]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A98B5103E6E for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:29:58 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=peMSqD3S3hOIdv6LHA3N89ZeAFRXIkqKhNfCd8zo2UdjhwAPeTIxLeoHB+6oL3eEEgjhLLySVxsOXdj4ywmBuvhp3ECmiPTykVXDphbtBcTTmLo8qC+LkfcRU31N8w6p; Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 00:29:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 00:29:50 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Riz@cambridgedocs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52392 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2006 00:29:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2006 00:29:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Mx1.myOutlookonline.com) (69.25.74.59) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2006 00:29:49 -0000 Received: from MAIL007.mail.lan ([10.109.209.107]) by Mx1.myOutlookonline.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:29:47 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [the-ekumen] Studio Ghibli does Earthsea Thread-Index: AcYnjcy3bgFXqj/sQxGFCORHHCXP0QAARbDw To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2006 00:29:47.0008 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5450800:01C6278F] X-Originating-IP: 69.25.74.59 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Riz Virk" X-Yahoo-Profile: rizwanv Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:29:56 -0500 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Studio Ghibli does Earthsea Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's great news ... I'm sure it'll be much better than the sci fi adaptation. Mostly, I'm also optmistic that even if they do adapt the story, they will get the right *tone* and avoid the cliches that the sci fi channel fell into. This was something that many agree Peter Jackson did very well in the Lord of the Rings movies - even though he may have changed the story here and there, he struck a tone that really resonated with fans. Too bad my japanese isn't good enough to read what they're saying on the website! Translations anyone? -Riz --------------------------------------- Rizwan Virk CTO CambridgeDocs www.cambridgedocs.com 617-905-3518 riz@cambridgedocs.com personal: riz@alum.mit.edu -----Original Message----- From: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Virginia Ryan Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:11 PM To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Studio Ghibli does Earthsea Maybe this is old news, but it appears that Studio Ghibli (Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke, Castle in the Sky)will be making a film based on Earthsea. http://www.ghibli.jp/ Personally, I love Studio Ghibli and have high hopes for any adaptation they do. At any rate, it's bound to be highly superior to that SciFi Channel travesty. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 22:07:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.35]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 69142CB4D1 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 05:37:10 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=RTpysIGNBREatKVLa2J7VYxzEyrKBgp47dIVPHMe9IwqjCfStLlt1VV1fTKm9ri/qc7UCJqrVG3rZXv1GaEX1mqkx31/WBMNPGztM4mNdnhCbfrCP2zdjUshBlL02iwl; Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 13:36:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 13:36:52 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11336 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2006 13:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2006 13:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fmmailgate05.web.de) (217.72.192.243) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2006 13:36:50 -0000 Received: by fmmailgate05.web.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/webde Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id k12CM8F9019975 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:22:08 +0100 Received: from [172.183.13.192] (helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp05.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (WEB.DE 4.105 #340) id 1F4dMC-0001tb-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 02 Feb 2006 13:14:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1138802953.105.95248.m19@yahoogroups.com> References: <1138802953.105.95248.m19@yahoogroups.com> Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Originating-IP: 217.72.192.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Diane Severson X-Yahoo-Profile: divadiane1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:12:54 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: UKL interview in the Guardian Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, it *is* quite remarkable how many people, children and adults alike have been reached and enticed to read the Harry Potter books. That is absolutely a wonderful thing. I do believe that the Earthsea books and other childrens/YA books within the Fantasy/SF genres have actually benefitted from Harry Potter's popularity. Kids and parents looking for similar books after having been hooked by HP do actually find Earthsea, Narnia, John Christopher and the like. I didn't intend to be solely derogatory about JKR's books, however I'm with Virginia on this, I long for originality and found it lacking in HP. Oh, and I *do* have the rest of the HP books on my shelf waiting for me to read them. However, they may have to wait a very long time. I think I have enough unread books on my shelves to keep me from even buying another book for the next 3 years! Diane On Feb 1, 2006, at 3:09 PM, the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com wrote: > There is 1 message in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: UKL interview in the Guardian > From: "Virginia Ryan" > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 23:40:01 -0000 > From: "Virginia Ryan" > Subject: Re: UKL interview in the Guardian > > I never said I didn't enjoy the Harry Potter books - I'll happily > confess to having read each and every one. I just said that I resisted > reading them for a long time. When I have a favorite book, and I > notice > what appears to be a derivative work, I feel an irrational sense of > resentment against the new work. That's why I can't stand to read most > "fantasy" novels, especially the D&D variety: they're almost all built > on Tolkien's foundation, and none of them live up to his genius. > Science fiction is the same way, if to a lesser extent. What I want > from an author is depth and originality. > > When I finally did read Harry Potter (out of boredom), I > enjoyed it > as an amusing way to pass the time. The characters are realistic and > the world is clever and whimsical. But once you get past the bright > colors and the whimsy, you find dark themes of vengeance and cruelty. > And certainly, the substance and subtlety of UKL's works are lacking. > > So, to summarize, I have nothing against the Harry Potter books. I do > have a wistful regret that the Earthsea books (which are more > thoughtful, better written, and carry a better message) could not > reach > the vast audience that Harry Potter has found. > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > > Diane Severson divadiane@web.de Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 22:07:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n5a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n5a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.39]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A4808103EA0 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 05:45:11 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=aikU1FZMJa8KR0wY04FtwOGQ45DEH3Dev4aTH3SH9jqPdFzB8jfS4lfpAuKg1HrZ0XGcYx+Z4qr4qfIyB51mfyPVae+qfh6zBXYRkoxZOQ+Vx16Rik0zlatxCv1W6j4n; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 13:44:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.95] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 13:44:50 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: janeluther@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60623 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2006 13:44:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2006 13:44:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO zproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.162.201) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2006 13:44:48 -0000 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id o1so406343nzf for ; Thu, 02 Feb 2006 05:42:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.88.7 with SMTP id l7mr639067nzb; Thu, 02 Feb 2006 05:33:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.120.12 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 05:33:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 64.233.162.201 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Jane Hyde X-Yahoo-Profile: jane3ncri Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:33:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Studio Ghibli does Earthsea Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I can't wait for this! They did a terrifc job with Diana Wynne Jones' "Howl's Moving Castle," and I love all the films I've seen by them. -- Jane Sing your song, dance your dance, tell your tale. (Thanks to Frank McCourt) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 22:08:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [209.73.160.85]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DE590103E0F for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:21:58 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=PhHyAqS5+9LQO+J7viEwiQ7SM9PPSuQAw+xabGbIjHi+5KrZ6q2Bkt92bKQWJjJoeJ8uviXHd9rXlQQVKk5W+jdsxTMGeS7Tys0TAxGRmK8JsMhbUOPX2T9RKlT4rAzQ; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 12:25:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.94] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 18:21:51 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99779 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2006 18:21:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2006 18:21:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO aa003msg.fastwebnet.it) (213.140.2.70) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2006 18:21:41 -0000 Received: from ms001msg.fastwebnet.it (10.31.41.32) by aa003msg.fastwebnet.it (7.2.069.1) id 43D6479600341664 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 19:21:41 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (23.231.163.97) by ms001msg.fastwebnet.it (7.2.070) (authenticated as myszka) id 43DE0BCF001821EC for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 19:21:41 +0100 Message-ID: <43E2517A.50804@yahoo.it> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050923 Thunderbird/1.0.7 Mnenhy/0.7.2.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 213.140.2.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Lakso Valimaki X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:37:46 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Studio Ghibli does Earthsea Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit il giorno 02/02/2006 1.29 Riz Virk ha scritto: > Too bad my japanese isn't good enough to read what they're saying on the > website! Translations anyone? There is also www.studioghibli.org ^__^ Ciao, Riccardo -- still looking for my takver -- Capitolo III Dove si racconta del modo curioso con cui Lakso si fece armar cavaliere. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 22:08:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.43]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AFC9D103E57 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:12:24 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=MNZF658/1oYI7RRdZgfJfVKjUkHIQYbhWyAsM6j5p6BsmGhse+BI7wQeem4sBEa/w/Z+Rrz9UFnBkzaIb8s9SgcTKPPo+hCtKAy358QnSlk5NMLnH08g66pTL47ohrw9; Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 20:12:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 20:12:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Riz@cambridgedocs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52214 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2006 20:12:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2006 20:12:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Mx1.myOutlookonline.com) (69.25.74.59) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2006 20:12:03 -0000 Received: from MAIL007.mail.lan ([10.109.209.107]) by Mx1.myOutlookonline.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:12:01 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [the-ekumen] Studio Ghibli does Earthsea Thread-Index: AcYoJY12/NUBLdc4QkKHL+03r5QEowADw+3Q To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2006 20:12:01.0857 (UTC) FILETIME=[EDBC0310:01C62834] X-Originating-IP: 69.25.74.59 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Riz Virk" X-Yahoo-Profile: rizwanv Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:12:10 -0500 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Studio Ghibli does Earthsea Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for sending this on Ricardo ... Unfortunately, my italian is almost, but not quite, as bad as my Japanese! English, anyone?? -Riz --------------------------------------- Rizwan Virk CTO CambridgeDocs www.cambridgedocs.com 617-905-3518 riz@cambridgedocs.com personal: riz@alum.mit.edu -----Original Message----- From: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lakso Valimaki Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:38 PM To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Studio Ghibli does Earthsea il giorno 02/02/2006 1.29 Riz Virk ha scritto: > Too bad my japanese isn't good enough to read what they're saying on > the website! Translations anyone? There is also www.studioghibli.org ^__^ Ciao, Riccardo -- still looking for my takver -- Capitolo III Dove si racconta del modo curioso con cui Lakso si fece armar cavaliere. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 22:09:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.227]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D44F103EA4 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:41:29 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=bto1gzO/fSITL/pOzrgl4EBh/Yvzc67XSIG5OhYk9NOHHsAziXo8ombaJkuHPdfiQpsnIQErntLIJXMDTF00cdxM57CSS0yB1rKwtxxbFvQFtdmVWwBjvVPMDbPS1xWN; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n7.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 21:41:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 21:41:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 21:41:11 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: hhw@sondryfolk.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15010 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2006 21:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2006 21:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay01.pair.com) (209.68.5.15) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2006 21:41:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 10135 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2006 20:17:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?134.10.122.122?) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 2 Feb 2006 20:17:45 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 134.10.122.122 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.68.5.15 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: heather whipple X-Yahoo-Profile: hhwsondry Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:17:45 -0800 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Studio Ghibli does Earthsea Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This fan site has an english translation of the director's blog: http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/earthsea/ Heather -- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . heather whipple hhw@sondryfolk.net http://www.sondryfolk.net/hhw [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 22:09:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.42]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 723B8CB446 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:04:10 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=ZEaVJbmWV+Dw+ufq6Nz72VdOerwuKUU1uqT4I+9zH55aTwEcm4kbC60ary0ArobCr/UbdUbz/UqRZCQRi7XBAAa2G+EUSTC3CshmMBmKzIE7u2xXl3WrssDpq8nS9ZH3; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 22:03:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.193] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 22:03:59 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 65430 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2006 22:03:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2006 22:03:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (209.73.160.85) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2006 22:03:57 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 16:07:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.71] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 22:03:44 -0000 X-Sender: shelgeyr@myrealbox.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68356 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2006 21:51:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2006 21:51:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-send.myrealbox.com) (151.155.5.143) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2006 21:51:41 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] Shelgeyr [203.105.92.33] by smtp-send.myrealbox.com with NetMail SMTP Agent $Revision: 1.6 $ on Linux; Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:50:54 -0700 Message-ID: <43E27EBC.7000206@myrealbox.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 151.155.5.143 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: T Harris X-Yahoo-Profile: gaoth_shelgeyr X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 02 Feb 2006 22:03:44 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 06:50:52 +0900 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Studio Ghibli does Earthsea Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Unfortunately the director is not Miazaki himself, but rather his son. It will be the first film he has directed and rumors say that Mizaki Sr. is not happy with his son choosing this career path. Still, I an optimistic about the movie. TRH Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 05 22:10:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.36]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C394044389 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:46:15 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=iiYMVGvrMYp3vhSFnA0Ne/AH2JBQ4HdgJmgHLfxnBvdxNUYu+iDt5zlvLL6ZasJemqqzIZQ1nJgWzh2pW5aFb+yDXHyBv2mI38FzBj868Cn+WuyRg90CoAS3KjoFJ1qk; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 22:46:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.106] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 22:46:12 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11903 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2006 22:46:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2006 22:46:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2006 22:46:11 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1F4nDN-0003K7-0n for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 02 Feb 2006 17:46:09 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060202224608.GB11695@ccil.org> References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 17:46:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Studio Ghibli does Earthsea Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit heather whipple scripsit: > This fan site has an english translation of the director's blog: > > http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/earthsea/ Amazing! He gets it! HE GETS IT!! -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org Please leave your values Check your assumptions. In fact, at the front desk. check your assumptions at the door. --sign in Paris hotel --Cordelia Vorkosigan Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Feb 16 14:05:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.55]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B8CC8103F08 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:32:34 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=umaJKbHuGCozTq1G/420SexsknjZkyh9iEpK09EHL1SpueA/TBMRI1IkTRcOQewDHdBOOy+La/Dn9bAN4utxvHT4Nk5tSIHsSQmR0PjGOEQIeEZvOATJSsyPAUzYcjzV; Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2006 17:32:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2006 17:32:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: swamp_canary@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46849 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2006 17:32:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2006 17:32:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.231) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Feb 2006 17:32:33 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n8.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2006 17:32:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2006 17:32:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2006 17:32:20 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.231 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.223.241.197 From: "Virginia Ryan" X-Yahoo-Profile: kemtri98 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:32:20 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] UKL Poetry Reading Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For anyone in the Portland/Salem/Eugene area: UKL will be reading from her new book of poetry on March 22, 7 pm at Lewis and Clark College. I believe she will be reading her translations of Gabriela Mistral, as well as some original work. I will be heading up from Eugene around 4:30 or 5 if anyone in the area wants to carpool. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 26 21:26:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.232]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A0F3CB505 for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 04:41:18 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=jdEmFhi5/+oLjdyTwRX/AmfTw7KVsESZqQxpyECiJwYatKrdWLQuHNGSWsE0FOkh2uCR+nFG/k2ynpIqr64QKFaGu9snChyhmccspZAf2jjrSW/RLP9GA4OCt+8731dv; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n9.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2006 12:41:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2006 12:41:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.94] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2006 12:41:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28130 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2006 12:40:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2006 12:40:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2006 12:40:52 -0000 Received: from du-040-0173.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.173] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1FDLCh-0009WI-GC for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 12:40:47 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c63ad1$ddede890$ad749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.141 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 12:40:45 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] patterning frame - vastness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was thinking about how one of the things that makes me love UKL's books is the way her mind is not constrained into one set of ideas, but wanders freely amongst physics, poetry, politics, philosophy, sociology, psychology, meteorology, sea craft, music, mythology .... could go on and on. I then started thinking about a quote from one of her books which goes something like 'your patterning frame always ends up on vastness' thought is was City of Illusions before Falk leaves Zove's house, but I looked through the chapters and couldn't find it anyone else recognise it? Hannah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 26 21:26:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n5a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n5a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.39]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F0CC544353 for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:35:59 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Iw2ysKGEFWCsVZKUM/iU/141K0C4T0SX6ThE1C6nzz9F0cALi1qOHIg1+U/pX2/CypRm4TV8reKzGmfPYrgdqiNDNU/xHwTmW+QjSk4GmQVQJEwKAIfz86fZFfXR0z8n; Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2006 18:35:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.97] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2006 18:35:59 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: char@userfriendlytech.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41976 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2006 18:35:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2006 18:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server304.com) (216.35.196.41) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2006 18:35:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 31574 invoked by uid 502); 26 Feb 2006 18:34:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.102?) (char@24.19.146.177) by ns1.server304.com with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) SMTP; 26 Feb 2006 18:34:51 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000a01c63ad1$ddede890$ad749ed9@robins6dd110df> References: <000a01c63ad1$ddede890$ad749ed9@robins6dd110df> Message-Id: <1140978891.15825.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.1 X-Originating-IP: 216.35.196.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Charlene Osman X-Yahoo-Profile: osmanchar Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:34:51 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] patterning frame - vastness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's where it is alright, but it's very early, in chapter 1. In my copy of City of Illusions, it's near the bottom of page 3. Parth has just found him and the adults in Zove's house are trying to decide what to do with him, so Buckeye is at the patterning frame to find out more about him. They haven't even named him "Falk" yet. "The four people sat still for quite awhile, together and separate, unspeaking but linked. 'The amber bead keeps slithering off into the Vastness pattern,' Buckeye said with a smile, setting down her frame with its jewel-strung, crossing wires. "'All your beads end up in Vastness,' her brother said...." That is one thing I like about LeGuin's writing too. It is integrated--physics, poetry, politics, philosophy, sociology, psychology, meterology, sea craft, music, mythology, herbology--all of it makes one whole rather than being separate things. Our society seems to value compartmentalization, but I feel a fuller life is one that is integrated. So some of LeGuin's characters are sort of "role models" for me, of how to live a more integrated life, how to allow my point of view to change even when it's painful. She doesn't shy away from these things. --Charlene On Sun, 2006-02-26 at 12:40 +0000, Robins- one of wrote: > I was thinking about how one of the things that makes me love UKL's > books is the way her mind is not constrained into one set of ideas, > but wanders freely amongst physics, poetry, politics, philosophy, > sociology, psychology, meteorology, sea craft, music, mythology .... > could go on and on. > > I then started thinking about a quote from one of her books which goes > something like 'your patterning frame always ends up on vastness' > thought is was City of Illusions before Falk leaves Zove's house, but > I looked through the chapters and couldn't find it > > anyone else recognise it? > > Hannah > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Science fiction and > fantasy > Literary agent fiction > Guin > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 1. Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. > > 2. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > 3. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 26 21:26:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.43]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 51F69103E38 for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:42:47 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Xdf8RttVkJSbzDvj1bUIss9JOnSonnW4DQoV/QSfZSgP+R+hT3r+yNlzeknj9wqAhAe7rP4ytESRFccmjxwe+n6Z/k2V0NNuYuMlyct2PlnR3jguRwiwLHr61U3yPSqg; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2006 18:42:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2006 18:42:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43976 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2006 18:42:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2006 18:42:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2006 18:42:45 -0000 Received: from du-040-0097.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.97] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1FDQqn-000Kaq-J6 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:42:34 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c63b04$68488950$61749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: <000a01c63ad1$ddede890$ad749ed9@robins6dd110df> <1140978891.15825.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.141 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:42:33 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] patterning frame - vastness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Charlene - found it! for some reason I had stuck on the thought that Falk was involved in the discussion when this conversation took place what do you (or others) visualise a patterning frame as? Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlene Osman" To: Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] patterning frame - vastness > That's where it is alright, but it's very early, in chapter 1. In my > copy of City of Illusions, it's near the bottom of page 3. Parth has > just found him and the adults in Zove's house are trying to decide what > to do with him, so Buckeye is at the patterning frame to find out more > about him. They haven't even named him "Falk" yet. > "The four people sat still for quite awhile, together and separate, > unspeaking but linked. 'The amber bead keeps slithering off into the > Vastness pattern,' Buckeye said with a smile, setting down her frame > with its jewel-strung, crossing wires. > "'All your beads end up in Vastness,' her brother said...." > > That is one thing I like about LeGuin's writing too. It is > integrated--physics, poetry, politics, philosophy, sociology, > psychology, meterology, sea craft, music, mythology, herbology--all of > it makes one whole rather than being separate things. Our society seems > to value compartmentalization, but I feel a fuller life is one that is > integrated. So some of LeGuin's characters are sort of "role models" > for me, of how to live a more integrated life, how to allow my point of > view to change even when it's painful. She doesn't shy away from these > things. > --Charlene > > On Sun, 2006-02-26 at 12:40 +0000, Robins- one of wrote: >> I was thinking about how one of the things that makes me love UKL's >> books is the way her mind is not constrained into one set of ideas, >> but wanders freely amongst physics, poetry, politics, philosophy, >> sociology, psychology, meteorology, sea craft, music, mythology .... >> could go on and on. >> >> I then started thinking about a quote from one of her books which goes >> something like 'your patterning frame always ends up on vastness' >> thought is was City of Illusions before Falk leaves Zove's house, but >> I looked through the chapters and couldn't find it >> >> anyone else recognise it? >> >> Hannah >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> SPONSORED LINKS >> Science fiction and >> fantasy >> Literary agent fiction >> Guin >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> 1. Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. >> >> 2. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> 3. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >> Service. >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Feb 27 21:09:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.227]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BE9D61031E4 for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 23:41:14 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=MRpgKmT1FDdmVm2Pi3yt7V94xrS0WF2OLjZqUGHjDd9yBoMBJ8R/hs4KQ9IlDhim1cXCY2Z5iAWPCnwFQVztMI2nc348KYTjIuYG8HnoDpvETsTLABGwBU5pKL2lZSbT; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n7.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2006 07:41:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2006 07:41:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2006 07:41:13 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89471 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2006 07:41:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2006 07:41:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2006 07:41:11 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2006 07:40:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2006 07:40:57 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000b01c63b04$68488950$61749ed9@robins6dd110df> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:40:57 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: patterning frame - vastness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Buckeyes is a frame made up of Rectangle 50 X 30 cm. Around this silver wires are haphazardly strung (german: kreuz und quer)on these wires there are beads of different materials. the frame is dark wood. Of course this is not necessary, you could just as well take string and wooden beads or pieces of whaterver you found, because the Patterning frame is just tool to focus your atenttion. The one the king of Kansas has (?) is much bigger with wires of different metals and lots of precious stones. for some reason n my imagination, it sits on a table that is filled with sand, kind of like a miniature Japanese garden. Bukeye uses hers a little bit like an Abaqus wheras the king lets his lie on the table. How does yours look? Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Feb 27 21:11:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.232]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D5C27CB57A for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:08:24 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=CSA5Qztt06niHoKeGiQgjcOXbo6Eudp5FqMMSq7sqWciVqYUIEr8N8/Pl0IkE5yWEQHTIaHToRBrxFbsFtRynwNbdOHAeUb8FG+ESusgAcPgfLD11bYtzRa1Nc4Ned5p; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n9.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 00:08:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 00:08:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 00:08:23 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: RachelBOsb@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49332 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2006 00:08:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2006 00:08:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2006 00:08:18 -0000 Received: from RachelBOsb@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id r.2f3.3bd27 (4214) for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:08:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2f3.3bd27.3134ee66@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.157.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: RachelBOsb@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: rachelbosb Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:08:06 EST Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 538 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just read an article in today's paper about the death of Octavia Butler, a black woman who wrote science fiction and was the recipient of a McArthur "genius grant". I must confess I'd never heard of her. I wondered if others on this list had, how her work compares to Ursula's, if LeGuin has ever commented on Butler's work to your knowlege. The article was intriguing. Rachel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Feb 27 21:11:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.233]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3F324CB50B for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:10:50 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=DerT2Wt6nkEHzx58oalMDMWxRA+Z7cM2QS1gMBvALRm0wxW2gVs1HjWw3FvzOHhaPwgui3PJXduKSEhyuLuQh76sTu9xcZsfZ/BLGGPW1CAihagKBszSoEImiJfrETuk; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n10.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 01:10:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 01:10:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.61] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 01:10:50 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: stillman@vassar.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5996 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2006 01:10:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2006 01:10:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ironport02.vassar.edu) (143.229.1.219) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2006 01:10:48 -0000 Received: from smtp02.vassar.edu ([143.229.1.142]) by ironport02.vassar.edu with ESMTP; 27 Feb 2006 20:10:41 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,151,1139202000"; d="scan'208"; a="2059298:sNHT120417388" Received: from [192.168.1.47] (pool-70-18-134-250.pghk.east.verizon.net [70.18.134.250]) by smtp02.vassar.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C6A2E589 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:18:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2f3.3bd27.3134ee66@aol.com> References: <2f3.3bd27.3134ee66@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 143.229.1.219 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Peter G. Stillman" X-Yahoo-Profile: gwfhegel Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:10:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 538 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In reponse to the query about Octavia Butler, I think that what many liked about her work was its variety. We had some panels on Butler at the 1999 Utopian Studies conference, and what struck me about the audience was that some had read some trilogies or maybe more of her work, and others had read a different trilogy, and there was no necessary connection between why her writing was liked. I'd guess that the varied response of these academics to her work is similar to the responses that most people would have to her work. Personally, I've always thought that Le Guin had more themes that she was playing more, more ideas, possibilities, and people, in her novels. But Butler was (not surprisingly) good on race and, I think, on religion. And, to me, she used science fiction in some fascinating ways -- not to explore technology and robots and machines, but to explore what people do ... -- Peter G. Stillman stillman@vassar.edu http://faculty.vassar.edu/stillman Professor, Political Science, Rocky 204, ext. 5581 Director, Environmental Studies, NE 103, ext. 5430 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Feb 28 22:14:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [209.73.160.85]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 51086103EAB for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:39:09 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=kmy/2ttKOHQrwpHbMOllCZcLyADWlZVTFVze7/008dv3IIOAp3mb7rX2VOfdGc0gE2GpL42oOCrXMEQsB/aMtBHwS9yNRk91aMmPfD/A/MRoju0HMfcjNQAcmt0Qot8s; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 04:39:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 04:39:09 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 6174 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2006 04:39:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2006 04:39:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.227) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2006 04:39:07 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n7.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 04:38:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 04:38:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 04:38:59 -0000 X-Sender: rhea_dnl@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80742 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2006 04:09:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2006 04:09:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web37403.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.87.56) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2006 04:09:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 42704 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Feb 2006 04:09:12 -0000 Message-ID: <20060228040912.42702.qmail@web37403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [219.91.208.102] by web37403.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 04:09:12 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <2f3.3bd27.3134ee66@aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.191.87.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: rhea daniel X-Yahoo-Profile: rhea_dnl X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 28 Feb 2006 04:38:57 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 04:09:12 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 538 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I was excited to read your mail because I recalled watching an interview on the BBC with an african american sci-fi writer many many yrs ago , and one bit really stuck with me through the years cz it prompted me to write some of my own stuff as a young teenager. So i did a search and found it on Locus Online: "....When I was 12, I had this big brown three-ring binder notebook that somebody had thrown away, and I was watching this godawful movie on television. (I wasn't allowed to go to the movies, because movies were wicked and sinful, but somehow when they came to the television they were OK.) It was one of those where the beautiful Martian arrives on Earth and announces that all the men on Mars have died and they need more men. None of the Earthmen want to go! And I thought, 'Geez, I can write a better story than that.' I got busy writing what I thought of as science fiction.'' http://www.locusmag.com/2000/Issues/06/Butler.html Rhea RachelBOsb@aol.com wrote: I just read an article in today's paper about the death of Octavia Butler, a black woman who wrote science fiction and was the recipient of a McArthur "genius grant". I must confess I'd never heard of her. I wondered if others on this list had, how her work compares to Ursula's, if LeGuin has ever commented on Butler's work to your knowlege. The article was intriguing. Rachel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Feb 28 22:14:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.226]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1268D1040D1 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 08:13:46 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=QY+z8RH89vFEqTBf9+YhCDbYC5Z6SB6UPbtiIzH2BuPsGd5njK1J8DcuD7YYKy+rwPNrKAZERdfihE5pWobZvW6oWtnmItceKI6g7IyH11DfQ/voqvvHpt6M5HefMm8z; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n6.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 16:13:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 16:13:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 16:13:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: char@userfriendlytech.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13406 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2006 16:13:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2006 16:13:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server304.com) (216.35.196.41) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2006 16:13:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 20608 invoked by uid 502); 28 Feb 2006 16:13:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.102?) (char@24.19.146.177) by ns1.server304.com with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) SMTP; 28 Feb 2006 16:13:06 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <2f3.3bd27.3134ee66@aol.com> Message-Id: <1141143201.15825.65.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.1 X-Originating-IP: 216.35.196.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Charlene Osman X-Yahoo-Profile: osmanchar Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 08:13:21 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 538 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only work of Octavia Butler that I've read was "Parable of the Sower", so I cannot comment on the variety in her works. I enjoyed the beginning of the book, but it seemed to me that it felt progressively less grounded as it went on, especially in the way the main character seemed to pick up strays on the road. By the end I felt a little giddy and shaky, and the end seemed somehow less realistic because of that. LeGuin, on the other hand, always seems to leave me feeling grounded, sometimes more than I want to be. Other times I read LeGuin precisely for that effect. I do like the way both LeGuin and Butler use the sci-fi genre to "explore what people do" rather than focusing on the machines. And I can't imagine either one using action to make up for lack of depth in the characters. --Charlene On Mon, 2006-02-27 at 20:10 -0500, Peter G. Stillman wrote: > In reponse to the query about Octavia Butler, I think that what many > liked about her work was its variety. We had some panels on Butler > at the 1999 Utopian Studies conference, and what struck me about the > audience was that some had read some trilogies or maybe more of her > work, and others had read a different trilogy, and there was no > necessary connection between why her writing was liked. I'd guess > that the varied response of these academics to her work is similar to > the responses that most people would have to her work. > > Personally, I've always thought that Le Guin had more themes that she > was playing more, more ideas, possibilities, and people, in her > novels. > But Butler was (not surprisingly) good on race and, I think, on > religion. > And, to me, she used science fiction in some fascinating ways -- not > to explore technology and robots and machines, but to explore what > people do ... > > -- > Peter G. Stillman > > stillman@vassar.edu > http://faculty.vassar.edu/stillman > > Professor, Political Science, Rocky 204, ext. 5581 > Director, Environmental Studies, NE 103, ext. 5430 > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Science fiction and > fantasy > Literary agent fiction > Guin > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 1. Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. > > 2. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > 3. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Feb 28 22:15:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.42]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 53458CB58C for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:50:47 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=ra+VHPapDFaw+MwqV15EITiPe76L1uSaF9WXCr4UNXyHJpKvzqJhQnaNuqPV9pUgq0+e9frlC6lHkKpHX+auRT9Mw05E7s5cDLvSMjTMJKxLIe30LZ077iysJq2cS0h6; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 20:50:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.193] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2006 20:50:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88890 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2006 20:50:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2006 20:50:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2006 20:50:43 -0000 Received: from du-040-0245.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.245] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1FEBnj-000BFc-IV for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:50:32 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01c63ca8$9faa2ca0$f5749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.141 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:50:34 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: patterning frame - vastness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that's wonderful - my poverty stricken imagination was stuck in the orthogonal, and just couldn't see how it would work. The 'haphazardly strung' wires you describe gets me thinking. Maybe the wires could slot into not simple holes in the frame, but shaped slots the wires could move around within thus contributing to the pattern in 3D. Or the wires themselves could be 3D - arcs of a circle that could rotate in their holes. Would that work? But I also yearn to see how the beads could move from one string/wire to another, and I can't visualise a solution to that. if there is 'vastness' presumably that infers that they could turn out in other named patterns. Cats cradle springs to mind. Then again as a child I had a book by Barbara Kerr Wilson called 'the path through the woods' which was the name of one of many patchwork patterns used in making patchwork quilts (the most chaotic being simply 'crazy patchwork' is this an analogy for what 'vastness' is?) - a theme picked up in a favourite adult book 'Alias Grace' by Margaret Attwood - a writer with the same kind of breadth of vision and literary skill as UKL though MA's SF as opposed to mystical ideas are more pedestrian than UKL's. any other ideas out there? Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "jokerinchen" To: Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 7:40 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: patterning frame - vastness > Buckeyes is a frame made up of Rectangle 50 X 30 cm. Around this > silver wires are haphazardly strung (german: kreuz und quer)on these > wires there are beads of different materials. the frame is dark wood. > Of course this is not necessary, you could just as well take string > and wooden beads or pieces of whaterver you found, because the > Patterning frame is just tool to focus your atenttion. The one the > king of Kansas has (?) is much bigger with wires of different metals > and lots of precious stones. for some reason n my imagination, it > sits on a table that is filled with sand, kind of like a miniature > Japanese garden. Bukeye uses hers a little bit like an Abaqus wheras > the king lets his lie on the table. > > How does yours look? > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Feb 28 22:15:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n4a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n4a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.224]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 656C8CB415 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:50:24 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Q0Ru7A9yKMT1kuSvGNZx+Ta44YkmlGuS2bnFCd8FixxD7ks9Rv+lY34xgDgQuw+sCG6kl263L5s1kwN3MPtoF4sGFGw/IGSc+0ewDySyHjLU7P55EDVG2Ia+zbMRyBbb; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n4.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 00:50:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 00:50:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 00:50:23 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24860 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 00:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2006 00:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.116) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 00:50:22 -0000 Received: from gkcpu.worldnet.att.net (117.charlotte-06rh15-16rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.216.117]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <20060301005000112005g3iee>; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:50:01 +0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060228194104.02b201c0@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001d01c63ca8$9faa2ca0$f5749ed9@robins6dd110df> References: <001d01c63ca8$9faa2ca0$f5749ed9@robins6dd110df> X-Originating-IP: 204.127.131.116 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Melody Ivins X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 19:52:41 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: patterning frame - vastness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, My visual imagination is pathetic, so I enjoy other people's ideas of what the patterning frame would look like. I've always thought it was, in part at least, an homage to Herman Hesse's glass bead game, from the wonderful novel Magister Ludi. Like Go or Mancala, the glass bead game can be played on many levels, including philosophical query and meditation. I'm sorry to hear that Octavia Butler is dead. I love her novel Kindred, in which a contemporary African-American woman becomes an involuntary time-traveller -- she keeps being dragged into the antebellum south to rescue a despicable white man, a slave owner who, she eventually realizes, is her ancestor. It's a very thoughtful look at the mixed heritage of many African-Americans, and at the whole awful institution of slavery. I know that Butler was also very interested in linguistics and in the relationship of language to political power, interests UKL certainly shares. Melody At 03:50 PM 2/28/06, you wrote: >that's wonderful - my poverty stricken imagination was stuck in the >orthogonal, and just couldn't see how it would work. The 'haphazardly >strung' wires you describe gets me thinking. Maybe the wires could slot >into not simple holes in the frame, but shaped slots the wires could move >around within thus contributing to the pattern in 3D. Or the wires >themselves could be 3D - arcs of a circle that could rotate in their holes. >Would that work? But I also yearn to see how the beads could move from one >string/wire to another, and I can't visualise a solution to that. > >if there is 'vastness' presumably that infers that they could turn out in >other named patterns. Cats cradle springs to mind. Then again as a child I >had a book by Barbara Kerr Wilson called 'the path through the woods' which >was the name of one of many patchwork patterns used in making patchwork >quilts (the most chaotic being simply 'crazy patchwork' is this an analogy >for what 'vastness' is?) - a theme picked up in a favourite adult book >'Alias Grace' by Margaret Attwood - a writer with the same kind of breadth >of vision and literary skill as UKL though MA's SF as opposed to mystical >ideas are more pedestrian than UKL's. > >any other ideas out there? > >Hannah > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jokerinchen" >To: >Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 7:40 AM >Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: patterning frame - vastness > > > > Buckeyes is a frame made up of Rectangle 50 X 30 cm. Around this > > silver wires are haphazardly strung (german: kreuz und quer)on these > > wires there are beads of different materials. the frame is dark wood. > > Of course this is not necessary, you could just as well take string > > and wooden beads or pieces of whaterver you found, because the > > Patterning frame is just tool to focus your atenttion. The one the > > king of Kansas has (?) is much bigger with wires of different metals > > and lots of precious stones. for some reason n my imagination, it > > sits on a table that is filled with sand, kind of like a miniature > > Japanese garden. Bukeye uses hers a little bit like an Abaqus wheras > > the king lets his lie on the table. > > > > How does yours look? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:54:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.36]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C8496CB49C for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:08:49 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=d8nFQsmLj1B6utDLI+jXZG7V1GoK8EG83ThMvNR0zMQUBdoiAu2puGYskSH1+dUSHV2B+QWFPkkmtr1fMDrO5fXUSYuslO82O9o1vVaeWZqMwup6NmRY2tBOzt/hfskb; Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 08:08:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 08:08:49 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37214 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 08:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2006 08:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.221) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 08:08:47 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 08:08:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 08:08:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 08:08:14 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001d01c63ca8$9faa2ca0$f5749ed9@robins6dd110df> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.221 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 08:08:14 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: patterning frame - vastness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think you have to forget about physical descriptions of how the beads move, unless you want to employ something like tunneling effects (quantum physics). Like UKL's stories the beads transcend their physical properties. Like the people in the story. And that is what the beads represent. thats why the one bead can get into the vastness. UKL doesn#t necessarilly stick to normal physical realities, when it inhibits the tale to tell. Thats what i like, that the focus is on processes of the mind not the physical world. A good example is The Telling. paula. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:54:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.36]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 65EF7103FAA for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:00:02 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=gfZCX3Sc5x4zzH/rryq5KIDtwpV58jPEjlT86JcHO3GRLijppaVCUvg/FkyIxb2Z2jMPs6/uDhDy3qeR3EWsie9EQiHN10xr/wv7PDAa0OxnLs5VVAEI/0HN60Ny5RMT; Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 10:00:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 10:00:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4019 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 09:59:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2006 09:59:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp11.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.31) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 09:59:58 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([81.84.16.38] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp11.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:59:13 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000b01c63b04$68488950$61749ed9@robins6dd110df> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2006 09:59:13.0674 (UTC) FILETIME=[CB57C6A0:01C63D16] X-Originating-IP: 212.113.174.31 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: rowcliffe Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:59:10 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] patterning frame - vastness+ Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Hannah and Charlene and other interested parties I haven't read City of Illusion yet but it sounds like a must. Hence, taking into account my limited knowledge of this book, what came to mind was Herman Hesse's bead game, where each bead represents a scenario and the game involves trying to find solutions between scenarios, such that some sort of fusion of ideas occurs. A number of people have tried to create this game and your should be able to find versions on the Internet. Changing tack, the last book of Ursula's I read was 'Always coming Home' - there are still a few little bits that I haven't read at the end because I couldn't bring myself to finish it. It was a book that I really didn't want to finish. I kept reading smaller and smaller parts of it so that I could appreciate them and also avoid finishing. It is amazing that such a book should be out of print and I would love to have access to the tape and music that came with some versions. Ian on 06/2/26 18:42, Robins- one of at robins@clara.co.uk wrote: > Thanks Charlene - found it! for some reason I had stuck on the thought that > Falk was involved in the discussion when this conversation took place > > what do you (or others) visualise a patterning frame as? > > Hannah > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlene Osman" > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 6:34 PM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] patterning frame - vastness > > >> That's where it is alright, but it's very early, in chapter 1. In my >> copy of City of Illusions, it's near the bottom of page 3. Parth has >> just found him and the adults in Zove's house are trying to decide what >> to do with him, so Buckeye is at the patterning frame to find out more >> about him. They haven't even named him "Falk" yet. >> "The four people sat still for quite awhile, together and separate, >> unspeaking but linked. 'The amber bead keeps slithering off into the >> Vastness pattern,' Buckeye said with a smile, setting down her frame >> with its jewel-strung, crossing wires. >> "'All your beads end up in Vastness,' her brother said...." >> >> That is one thing I like about LeGuin's writing too. It is >> integrated--physics, poetry, politics, philosophy, sociology, >> psychology, meterology, sea craft, music, mythology, herbology--all of >> it makes one whole rather than being separate things. Our society seems >> to value compartmentalization, but I feel a fuller life is one that is >> integrated. So some of LeGuin's characters are sort of "role models" >> for me, of how to live a more integrated life, how to allow my point of >> view to change even when it's painful. She doesn't shy away from these >> things. >> --Charlene >> >> On Sun, 2006-02-26 at 12:40 +0000, Robins- one of wrote: >>> I was thinking about how one of the things that makes me love UKL's >>> books is the way her mind is not constrained into one set of ideas, >>> but wanders freely amongst physics, poetry, politics, philosophy, >>> sociology, psychology, meteorology, sea craft, music, mythology .... >>> could go on and on. >>> >>> I then started thinking about a quote from one of her books which goes >>> something like 'your patterning frame always ends up on vastness' >>> thought is was City of Illusions before Falk leaves Zove's house, but >>> I looked through the chapters and couldn't find it >>> >>> anyone else recognise it? >>> >>> Hannah >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> SPONSORED LINKS >>> Science fiction and >>> fantasy >>> Literary agent fiction >>> Guin >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >>> >>> 1. Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. >>> >>> 2. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>> the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>> >>> 3. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >>> Service. >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:54:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [209.73.160.85]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BCEFDCB5A9 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:48:42 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=NIbXd+G+GNtsFaUb1Lbp8+ZrVbdq/tnmsZ3/x3LJdgndBSb5eOYgQUvwN5gnNPSN8nezZ8zkBTXINvDMlHJiWCxKYrQD4orPXKB60lhAnPfB4w/O6DDOkqd1CA+ey5Cx; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 14:48:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.200] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 14:48:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59544 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 14:48:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2006 14:48:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.67) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 14:48:40 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfim5.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.202.197] helo=DB) by pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FESU8-0002ZM-00; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:39:24 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.20060301062823.00a77320@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, In-Reply-To: References: <000b01c63b04$68488950$61749ed9@robins6dd110df> X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 06:35:36 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 09:59 AM 3/1/2006 +0000, rowcliffe wrote: >Changing tack, the last book of Ursula's I read was 'Always coming Home' - >there are still a few little bits that I haven't read at the end because I >couldn't bring myself to finish it. It was a book that I really didn't want >to finish. I kept reading smaller and smaller parts of it so that I could >appreciate them and also avoid finishing. I merely read it again. Actually, it was so obvious from the beginning that the book didn't have to be read in order that I skipped around a lot even on first reading, and passed over some sections to come back later. That helped in keeping the book as an evolving experience for me. >It is amazing that such a book should be out of print It isn't. The very nice University of California Press edition is still available. >and I would love to have access to the tape and music >that came with some versions. Now that - the tape of music and poetry - may well be out of print. The composer used to sell it, but evidently not any more. It can be found used, though. It's well worth hearing. The music is very effective, some of the poetry is read by UKL herself, and the whole adds to the all-encompassing feel of the text. David Bratman Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:54:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n3a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n3a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.223]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 125D4103FCE for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:34:22 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=aiZRh/NghG8SUqsfQ75GuELoO8WxHbIuuXg6m7EmDEXX22hnrFUix6deGLY8/cicJ2mzYHswDkRCVsdfjjK34jGYqxj0MV124I4HTV+F9gZmUR3n3xmNilGKJ3M9nQ3X; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n3.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 15:34:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 15:34:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 15:34:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31787 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 15:34:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2006 15:34:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vms048pub.verizon.net) (206.46.252.48) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 15:34:19 -0000 Received: from vms089.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.2]) by vms048.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IVG00EX4GJJTTA4@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:33:19 -0600 (CST) To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <24417785.1141227199891.JavaMail.root@vms089.mailsrvcs.net> X-Originating-IP: 206.46.252.48 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Janice Dawley X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:33:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Always Coming Home Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>and I would love to have access to the tape and music >>that came with some versions. > >Now that - the tape of music and poetry - may well be out of >print. The composer used to sell it, but evidently not any more. >It can be found used, though. It's well worth hearing. The music >is very effective, some of the poetry is read by UKL herself, and >the whole adds to the all-encompassing feel of the text. > >David Bratman Well, it is still listed at the "Basement Full of Books" web site. Here's the direct link: http://www.sff.net/bfob/files/Barton,_Todd.txt By the way, I highly recommend BFOB. You can get all kinds of out-of-print books directly from the authors. Often times you can request autographs, too. Great stuff. -- Janice Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:51:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.227]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DB192CB53B for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:18:59 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=gNYqwQ21Tl08voK0u2+afREimSRHs1ZdMvv0keu1LBeiZKImeAt5m/rA/rFmc9WKbmh6wsdRg49WcZki/SyqSa6btpxbqfNnuOGdlSmR4ywMIchj1PGtqfJ5r5H7ZgUU; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n7.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2006 03:18:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2006 03:18:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.200] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2006 03:18:59 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18362 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2006 03:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2006 03:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.115) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2006 03:18:56 -0000 Received: from gkcpu.worldnet.att.net (131.charlotte-23rh15rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.241.131]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <20060302031717111004ao9me>; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 03:17:17 +0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060301220139.02b25db0@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <24417785.1141227199891.JavaMail.root@vms089.mailsrvcs.net> References: <24417785.1141227199891.JavaMail.root@vms089.mailsrvcs.net> X-Originating-IP: 204.127.131.115 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Melody Ivins X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:07:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Always Coming Home Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy, I have read Always Coming Home at least ten times now, and still find more in it with each reading. For a copy of the out-of-print book with truly wonderful tape, try www.bookfinder.com , which will let you check a bunch of used book consortia at once -- ABE, Alibris, Antiqbook, etc and etc. It's the best place I know to compare prices for used books on the net. I've bought two copies of the trade paperback with tape through that site for $25 in the last couple of years. I didn't know about "Basement Full of Books," so I'm off to check it out. Thanks, Janice! Melody At 10:33 AM 3/1/06, Janice Dawley wrote: > >>and I would love to have access to the tape and music > >>that came with some versions. > > > >Now that - the tape of music and poetry - may well be out of > >print. The composer used to sell it, but evidently not any more. > >It can be found used, though. It's well worth hearing. The music > >is very effective, some of the poetry is read by UKL herself, and > >the whole adds to the all-encompassing feel of the text. > > > >David Bratman > >Well, it is still listed at the "Basement Full of Books" web site. >Here's the direct link: > >http://www.sff.net/bfob/files/Barton,_Todd.txt > >By the way, I highly recommend BFOB. You can get all kinds of >out-of-print books directly from the authors. Often times you can >request autographs, too. Great stuff. > >-- Janice > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:47:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.227]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D5BB444A8 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:15:34 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Mx0l90osfNX87rkZWXVrplUBqHbfNxPHWJN2wKw55sXSasnnzu36m7im9RXg6b/FX+JKW6N7rbTmLIW0a7dg9rzXFgdXuqt2go2cxeSO9aHmEdg41Kw0FqfwnNXKBhX+; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n7.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2006 17:15:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2006 17:15:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2006 17:15:32 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89491 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2006 17:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2006 17:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26201.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.12.10.238) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2006 17:15:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 96840 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Mar 2006 17:15:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20060302171523.96838.qmail@web26201.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.244.29.251] by web26201.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:15:23 CET To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060228194104.02b201c0@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Originating-IP: 217.12.10.238 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Lakso V." X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:15:23 +0100 (CET) Subject: [the-ekumen] Octavia Butler Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm sorry to hear that Octavia Butler is dead. Yes, I'm sorry too. I did read too few books of her to be able to say I know her works, but I enjoyed those few. Ciao, Lakso -- Ekumen - Italian Branch ___________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 22:57:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.55]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2C6D0CB4B0 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:26:51 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=hbNW9k6lV8m1O5dojLUivbZYqu5YtElfzUpcPbwIpSZHfO1igNcS0Yn/H7dohcxjArTJpMSmhOkZ72duVCWzIQflynE+HjEdc4xSvqDW1QBYjBuCmzR7nRgT1AcamBXg; Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 09:26:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 09:26:50 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 10101 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2006 09:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2006 09:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.221) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2006 09:26:50 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 09:26:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 09:26:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 09:26:48 -0000 X-Sender: central_21@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67860 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2006 09:20:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2006 09:20:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2006 09:20:53 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 09:19:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 09:19:37 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 125.22.70.103 From: "central" X-Yahoo-Profile: central_21 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 04 Mar 2006 09:26:47 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:19:35 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] namas-tae Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi just joined this group today. here's my story for all interested ... read the earthsea quartet about 10 years ago, borrowed from a friend, in my 'formative' days and it has been an inspiration ever since. iv been searchin for a copy and finally found one a few weeks ago. of course i just had to re-read it and it still amazes me how much more iv learned from the book now that im older and a little wiser too. tehanu was such an incredible endin, although to watch ged so down and out was painful, but then his re-vival proves that there is life beyond magic. the entire series has really gone full circle, a child of power growing up into the world, reaching the peaks, sacrificing all his knowledge and mastery for a higher cause, experiencing solitude and weakness, yet findin the strength to go on (with tenar's help of course) and then..... another child of power's journey into the world, from the darkness (including ignorance) of her childhood, beginning. the beauty of ULG writing is its depth, the way that she can describe the simple lives people such as the weavers of lobanery to the splendour of the wise and mighty. another thing about her writing that stands out is the philosophy that is intrinsic to the world and the characters there-in. Ged's dialogues with lebannen (hope thats the write spellin) were incredible for me to read through. anyway enough rambling, hi everyone, lookin forward to sharing. bright the eagle's flight on the empty sky ..... Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 22:58:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.42]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 950141031E4 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:42:28 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=OHGnXiqKx28oOF6tLd8Mw/UI8htx/g7uuCojgg+kbY6s4LkXMQgS8pEWxo59cN8MyoT9NAuUHEY8qsZEwo14xXsBLaGYZfrPv/2Z4lkKFlBQtan3bJRMfSFrheN6WJce; Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 17:42:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 17:42:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 848 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2006 17:42:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2006 17:42:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2006 17:42:26 -0000 Received: from du-040-0102.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.102] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1FFalm-0002I9-Hr for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:42:19 +0000 Message-ID: <001901c63fb2$fc6d7c00$66749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.141 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:42:18 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: patterning frame - vastness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mmmm..not sure I agree about that Paula. Yes, of course UKL goes beyond physical realities in many of her stories - but she also deals with the physical. So I feel the patterning frame is a metaphor, and also that there may be a mystical element in how the patterns end up in vastness - but still feel that the object itself will be a beautiful but tangible object that works in Newtonian rather than quantum physics. Your description of Buckeye's darkwood frame silver wires and multi material beads rang very true for me, but the idea of beads moving in a mystical rather than physical way does not! Both Melanie and Ian have talked about Hermann Hesse's Glass Bead Game. We have a copy sitting on one of our bookshelves along with a number of other books by the same author that my husband Nick brought with him when we first moved in together over a quarter of a century ago, but I have to confess I have not read any of them; they intimidate me as Aihal's Lore books intimidated Tenar. I think I may once have started one and given up ... something to aim for when I retire perhaps and then I'll be able to make the comparison. Of course one could suppose the patterning frame to exist in cyberspace, in which case all sort of movements and arrangements could become possible. But this also does not ring true for me. On another tack, UKL does of course use 'patterning' in another context - in Earthsea the Master Patterner living in the Immanent Grove. I have no desire at all to constrain that combination to Newtonian physics! Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "jokerinchen" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:08 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: patterning frame - vastness >I think you have to forget about physical descriptions of how the > beads move, unless you want to employ something like tunneling > effects (quantum physics). Like UKL's stories the beads transcend > their physical properties. Like the people in the story. And that is > what the beads represent. thats why the one bead can get into the > vastness. UKL doesn#t necessarilly stick to normal physical > realities, when it inhibits the tale to tell. Thats what i like, that > the focus is on processes of the mind not the physical world. A good > example is The Telling. > > paula. > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 22:58:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.232]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C54E104039 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:44:35 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=IdzFxd/41iPox6ALT8rbd4ZR/PqE38DKB6OJ3XjTCX5/1ghIhZc5qgWKcNLV8UQp94IqOQSirix8UvPbq/kbWlon5q6RYkz/vMi6XSqZ2tw3UzYFNQt3983QP3lwhV0/; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n9.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 17:44:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 17:44:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 17:44:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35050 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2006 17:44:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2006 17:44:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2006 17:44:34 -0000 Received: from du-040-0102.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.102] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1FFanv-0002vS-J8 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:44:32 +0000 Message-ID: <001f01c63fb3$4c3d75f0$66749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.141 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:44:32 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] namas-tae Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit welcome! and let me encourage you to read the next 2 Earthsea books Tales from Earthsea and The Other Wind. I just re read all 6 books straight through which was a joy - although I still feel confused about the ending of the Other Wind Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "central" To: Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 9:19 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] namas-tae > hi just joined this group today. here's my story for all interested ... > > read the earthsea quartet about 10 years ago, borrowed from a friend, in > my 'formative' days and it has been an inspiration ever since. iv been > searchin for a copy and finally found one a few weeks ago. of course i > just had to re-read it and it still amazes me how much more iv learned > from the book now that im older and a little wiser too. tehanu was such an > incredible endin, although to watch ged so down and out was painful, but > then his re-vival proves that there is life beyond magic. the entire > series has really gone full circle, a child of power growing up into the > world, reaching the peaks, sacrificing all his knowledge and mastery for a > higher cause, experiencing solitude and weakness, yet findin the strength > to go on (with tenar's help of course) and then..... another child of > power's journey into the world, from the darkness (including ignorance) of > her childhood, beginning. > > the beauty of ULG writing is its depth, the way that she can describe the > simple lives people such as the weavers of lobanery to the splendour of > the wise and mighty. another thing about her writing that stands out is > the philosophy that is intrinsic to the world and the characters there-in. > Ged's dialogues with lebannen (hope thats the write spellin) were > incredible for me to read through. > > anyway enough rambling, hi everyone, lookin forward to sharing. > > bright the eagle's flight on the empty sky ..... > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 22:58:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.44]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8FE5DCB583 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:14:00 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Lph/m1sbg+vFQUSNimYFwA3SFSBWIj5U5EmlRhqMX5ZErBfdrN0JwjP5REb7UERMqHKwj6mXPmAu475VZP7x22rafJiVsLr6mO3M45D2FdC+ro/RCqnxiEftKltXQz1R; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 19:14:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 19:13:59 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: central_21@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54311 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2006 19:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2006 19:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.225) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2006 19:13:56 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n5.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 19:13:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 19:13:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2006 19:13:47 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001f01c63fb3$4c3d75f0$66749ed9@robins6dd110df> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.225 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 59.144.22.218 From: "central" X-Yahoo-Profile: central_21 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:13:47 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: namas-tae Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanx for the welcome hannah. two more earthsea books? hah learnt something new already !! gonna get me a copy somehow, somewhere .... hmmm --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Robins- one of" wrote: > > welcome! and let me encourage you to read the next 2 Earthsea books Tales > from Earthsea and The Other Wind. I just re read all 6 books straight > through which was a joy - although I still feel confused about the ending of > the Other Wind > Hannah > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "central" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 9:19 AM > Subject: [the-ekumen] namas-tae > > > > hi just joined this group today. here's my story for all interested . .. > > > > read the earthsea quartet about 10 years ago, borrowed from a friend, in > > my 'formative' days and it has been an inspiration ever since. iv been > > searchin for a copy and finally found one a few weeks ago. of course i > > just had to re-read it and it still amazes me how much more iv learned > > from the book now that im older and a little wiser too. tehanu was such an > > incredible endin, although to watch ged so down and out was painful, but > > then his re-vival proves that there is life beyond magic. the entire > > series has really gone full circle, a child of power growing up into the > > world, reaching the peaks, sacrificing all his knowledge and mastery for a > > higher cause, experiencing solitude and weakness, yet findin the strength > > to go on (with tenar's help of course) and then..... another child of > > power's journey into the world, from the darkness (including ignorance) of > > her childhood, beginning. > > > > the beauty of ULG writing is its depth, the way that she can describe the > > simple lives people such as the weavers of lobanery to the splendour of > > the wise and mighty. another thing about her writing that stands out is > > the philosophy that is intrinsic to the world and the characters there-in. > > Ged's dialogues with lebannen (hope thats the write spellin) were > > incredible for me to read through. > > > > anyway enough rambling, hi everyone, lookin forward to sharing. > > > > bright the eagle's flight on the empty sky ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 22:59:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.56]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id ADE434427C for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:57:43 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=WjDj0Li1IknSUrGH/KeNHFfLDL6EYd/mTzr2JaTU8AJ3KVbWf/kmB4VhgC0ellkSN6jZjAEsg3jqSJ8vblOgm1mseR5ZvGYN0dy6R/TQ5Zdy87xzzrfcAX0jtP+GDDK3; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2006 14:57:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2006 14:57:43 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34519 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2006 14:57:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2006 14:57:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fmmailgate07.web.de) (217.72.192.248) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2006 14:57:38 -0000 Received: by fmmailgate07.web.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/webde Linux 0.7) with SMTP id k25EuBDw017890 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:57:33 +0100 Received: from [81.211.173.194] by freemailng5902.web.de with HTTP; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:57:32 +0100 Message-Id: <360242116@web.de> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Organization: http://freemail.web.de/ X-Originating-IP: 217.72.192.248 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Diane Severson X-Yahoo-Profile: divadiane1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:57:32 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] namas-tae Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there and welcome, I'm just getting around to reading The Tales from Earthsea and The Other Wind for the first time and loving it. I'm feeling more and more like I must re-read the Earthsea quartet, but I've lent my copy out to someone and never got it back.... Diane the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com schrieb am 04.03.06 13:06:48: There is 1 message in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. namas-tae From: "central" ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:19:35 -0000 From: "central" Subject: namas-tae hi just joined this group today. here's my story for all interested ... read the earthsea quartet about 10 years ago, borrowed from a friend, in my 'formative' days and it has been an inspiration ever since. iv been searchin for a copy and finally found one a few weeks ago. of course i just had to re-read it and it still amazes me how much more iv learned from the book now that im older and a little wiser too. tehanu was such an incredible endin, although to watch ged so down and out was painful, but then his re-vival proves that there is life beyond magic. the entire series has really gone full circle, a child of power growing up into the world, reaching the peaks, sacrificing all his knowledge and mastery for a higher cause, experiencing solitude and weakness, yet findin the strength to go on (with tenar's help of course) and then..... another child of power's journey into the world, from the darkness (including ignorance) of her childhood, beginning. the beauty of ULG writing is its depth, the way that she can describe the simple lives people such as the weavers of lobanery to the splendour of the wise and mighty. another thing about her writing that stands out is the philosophy that is intrinsic to the world and the characters there-in. Ged's dialogues with lebannen (hope thats the write spellin) were incredible for me to read through. anyway enough rambling, hi everyone, lookin forward to sharing. bright the eagle's flight on the empty sky ..... ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:00:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.35]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C77B8CB57D for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:18:37 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=LZG4COvkFFDfmx2eedN0Gmc8Qvo2OuY4Vy4OAuRze4qUahh6rDvEurodcm5/qU5RmsG2FrW8B5rfB6HyQsmzgyi8wSJKQeb4L+zO2zr/8PTZgRf3nSDVpp8lHA8eNvqv; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2006 23:18:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.35] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2006 23:18:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Riz@cambridgedocs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32614 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2006 23:18:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2006 23:18:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Mx1.myOutlookonline.com) (69.25.74.33) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2006 23:18:36 -0000 Received: from MAIL007.mail.lan ([10.109.209.107]) by Mx1.myOutlookonline.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:18:35 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Earthsea candle wisdom Thread-Index: AcZAZSjR+TXDyKZXRJ6HPFs0vNwNoAAMZ89g To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2006 23:18:35.0579 (UTC) FILETIME=[2084B0B0:01C640AB] X-Originating-IP: 69.25.74.33 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Riz Virk" X-Yahoo-Profile: rizwanv Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:18:42 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Earthsea candle wisdom Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, I've always found the earthsea serious particularly inspiring. One thing (among many) that I found interesting was the "candle wisdom" embedded in some of the book - oddly enough I found that I could sum up why I liked a "Wizard from Earthsea" and "The Farthest Shore" with single lines from each book (as much as these things can be summed up): -Wizard of Earthsea: "To light a candle is to cast a shadow." -The Farthest Shore: "Sometimes to see the light of a candle you have to go to a very dark place." I didn't find any particular lines in the other earthsea books that seem to capture all of the complexity and yet simplicity of those books. Any suggestions or thoughts?? Thanks Riz --------------------------------------- Rizwan Virk CTO CambridgeDocs www.cambridgedocs.com 617-905-3518 riz@cambridgedocs.com personal: riz@alum.mit.edu -----Original Message----- From: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diane Severson Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:58 AM To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] namas-tae Hi there and welcome, I'm just getting around to reading The Tales from Earthsea and The Other Wind for the first time and loving it. I'm feeling more and more like I must re-read the Earthsea quartet, but I've lent my copy out to someone and never got it back.... Diane the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com schrieb am 04.03.06 13:06:48: There is 1 message in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. namas-tae From: "central" ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:19:35 -0000 From: "central" Subject: namas-tae hi just joined this group today. here's my story for all interested ... read the earthsea quartet about 10 years ago, borrowed from a friend, in my 'formative' days and it has been an inspiration ever since. iv been searchin for a copy and finally found one a few weeks ago. of course i just had to re-read it and it still amazes me how much more iv learned from the book now that im older and a little wiser too. tehanu was such an incredible endin, although to watch ged so down and out was painful, but then his re-vival proves that there is life beyond magic. the entire series has really gone full circle, a child of power growing up into the world, reaching the peaks, sacrificing all his knowledge and mastery for a higher cause, experiencing solitude and weakness, yet findin the strength to go on (with tenar's help of course) and then..... another child of power's journey into the world, from the darkness (including ignorance) of her childhood, beginning. the beauty of ULG writing is its depth, the way that she can describe the simple lives people such as the weavers of lobanery to the splendour of the wise and mighty. another thing about her writing that stands out is the philosophy that is intrinsic to the world and the characters there-in. Ged's dialogues with lebannen (hope thats the write spellin) were incredible for me to read through. anyway enough rambling, hi everyone, lookin forward to sharing. bright the eagle's flight on the empty sky ..... ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? 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See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n4.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 05:59:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 05:59:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 05:59:37 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.224 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 216.196.177.243 From: "Auriel" X-Yahoo-Profile: askitsu X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 06 Mar 2006 07:34:32 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 05:59:35 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ursula K. Le Guin said this: "Ihavereceivedlettersthat broke my heart, from adolescents of color in this country and inEngland, telling me that when they realized that Ged and the otherArchipelagans in the Earthsea books are not white people, they feltincluded in the world of literary and movie fantasy for the firsttime." ~ Speech to the Book ExpoAmerica children's literature breakfast, June, 4, 2004. I will admit to nearly a half century in age but I am one in sentiment with those aforementioned adolescents as a person of of colour who when discovering the world of Earthsea found personal affirmation along with power and wisdom in those enchanted words. Images that still ring true, growing within my heart and mind with each reading over these years in the books. I had the temerity to broach the subject of the peculiar ethnic casting choices during the broadcast of Earthsea that resulted in making me the instant target of contempt, mockery and derision. It gives me cause to wonder how far have we really come if those drawn to UKL works, people I generally ascribe justly or not to a some what higher level of thought and attributes of some depth and sagacity are still capable of such foreshortened vision? I was told that it was I that was was the racist for even noticing such a thing. We have come so far that we are again fire bombing churches and revisiting the community entertainment value of public lynching from what I have been reading of late but I am a racist? Hmmmm. Personally I was disappointed by thediminutive size and dismal pallor of Vetch. I am still reticent to speak of the matter even now. Some time has past and I have still found no way to reconcile either what I saw on screen or the reaction of so many ofwhat I once viewed as my peers. Am I too sensitive or too subtle? I am an "Elder Sister" with four younger male snivelings who describe me as,"Blunt as anAnvil". I suggest they exaggerate as I have received no royalties from The ACME Anvil Company. They are all my dearest but if they had ever known that too easily they would have run the house to the ground despite my Mother's best efforts. _______________________*_______________________ AsI have spoken to Race, may I then . . . have at Gender? I would have thought UKL works and not just "Left Hand of Darkness" would ferment much ongoing discussion, the distillation of which I would still long after the fact enjoy and with continued threads of controversy have ample opportunity to weigh in on. The relevance between UKL transgender constructions of fiction and the now very broad discussion on feminism/transfeminism to start with at the very least. It's not like there are only one or two transgender persons living in the real world to no meaningful effect. My search within this group yielded not even once the term transgender in within a post. Is the term deemed inaccurate and so far removed from UKL works as to not have the relevance that I perceive? Delicacy is not my forte, could my senses be so course as to have missed the subtle interplay of this community's commensal discourse betwixt reality and fiction on this so timely a subject? Where other more pertinent terms used which escaped my thought to search by? After all,we live in a world where gender variance can be the grounds for murder with little or no consequence on an daily basis, that is when it is reported at all. Were there some here that were concerned that such discussion may divert attention away from the millions of natal females that are also brutalized daily? Such was not my intent. I was really only curious at first since UKL writings where amongst my first meaningful and drawn out introduction to critical thinking on what I thought at the time were abstract thoughts on gender. UKL writings became very relevant to mypersonal understanding of gender as did a work by Ray Bradbury, "The LongAfterMidnight Girl" which helped me reconsider the merits of putting a rope around my own neck at one point. The rope thing? Gender Dysphoria, long story, let's hope you don't live to regret my decision. Until when, Auriel Kitsu Every decision is a path. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:00:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.232]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2DCA244275 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 00:59:53 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=gIHDVJ0XPFpZO+WXiPlDQ2f7uY30dE42ZUf1yYHhK+vHnUQ96du/iD6rNKJUBFluj2oopZRfZ0j6+yL62kRT6mapq9IPXfd3QuAVhPJGN9eptrdcyznRvrvdHTE1iVop; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n9.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 08:59:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 08:59:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.35] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 08:59:52 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68261 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2006 08:59:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2006 08:59:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2006 08:59:48 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 08:59:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 08:59:45 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001901c63fb2$fc6d7c00$66749ed9@robins6dd110df> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.44 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:59:45 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: patterning frame - vastness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don#t think I#ve ever been intimidated by Books, but Herman HEsse is not easy. I read Siddartah and the could get past the first twenty pages of Steppenwolf. The first though is great and i have read it twice. I#m a chemist, so Quantum mechanics are really a part of my reality, i guess thats where my beads started tunneling. Paula. > mmmm..not sure I agree about that Paula. > > Yes, of course UKL goes beyond physical realities in many of her stories - > but she also deals with the physical. So I feel the patterning frame is a > metaphor, and also that there may be a mystical element in how the patterns > end up in vastness - but still feel that the object itself will be a > beautiful but tangible object that works in Newtonian rather than quantum > physics. Your description of Buckeye's darkwood frame silver wires and > multi material beads rang very true for me, but the idea of beads moving in > a mystical rather than physical way does not! > > Both Melanie and Ian have talked about Hermann Hesse's Glass Bead Game. We > have a copy sitting on one of our bookshelves along with a number of other > books by the same author that my husband Nick brought with him when we first > moved in together over a quarter of a century ago, but I have to confess I > have not read any of them; they intimidate me as Aihal's Lore books > intimidated Tenar. I think I may once have started one and given up ... > something to aim for when I retire perhaps and then I'll be able to make the > comparison. > > Of course one could suppose the patterning frame to exist in cyberspace, in > which case all sort of movements and arrangements could become possible. > But this also does not ring true for me. > > On another tack, UKL does of course use 'patterning' in another context - in > Earthsea the Master Patterner living in the Immanent Grove. I have no > desire at all to constrain that combination to Newtonian physics! > > Hannah Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:00:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n8a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n8a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.231]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 17B8ECB56E for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:39:03 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=YHpNdAs4Y++DSpE4gth6ZjYYB+sDqv+QGHH0F7DIKybxpUvmy+el9eV2QVnRh5ZUDPnEZ1+d7X5TPygqPYQHVdrPBwcz/vT1pxn+k1RJ1kV7PCmd6QwXjCAyGQiU8TbF; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n8.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 09:39:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 09:39:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 09:39:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13526 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2006 09:39:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2006 09:39:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2006 09:39:02 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 09:38:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 09:38:51 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:38:50 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You ask: am I the Racisst? I say yes and no! Before you get angry, let me tell a little story. 14 years ago my family moved to Charlottesville Virginia from East Germany. I was 10 my sister seven. we both entered school there. One day near the beginning of the school year, my sisters class had an exercise, where they were to sit in a circle and draw each other. Across from my sister sat a boy who was very dark skinned, so dark that she chose to use a black marker to draw him. When the other "coloured" children noticed this they threatened to beat her, took away all black pens and forced her to draw the boy in brown. Who was racist here? I was fortunate enough to be very shy and sensitive to stresses in a community. I noticed very early wher the demarcation lines in my school ran. I avoided them. I hated it. I could not understand it. I could not understand why everyone subjected themselves to such a useless seperation. There are reasons fo such behaviour, i know. I understand, why you demand recognition. One of my dearest friends in Virginia was a woman named Norma who was 70 years old and had lived through segregation. She had light skin, a bit like one of my friends from Germany. It took 3 years for me to realize that she was "coloured". From her I learned about life under such constraints, I don't think I could have lived with them. You are racist, but you have no choice but to be one. So does that not invalidate the judgement? You are not racist. As to gender/transgender. I am a woman. I feel comfortable with myself. I don't feel comfortable when people tell me that I have the wrong job for a woman (chemist with a MAster, on my way to a Phd). There are no transgender people in my aquaintance, therefore it is not a subject that i need to discuss. I try to accept all people the way they are. I believe that I am able to jump across all prejudices, because they arent really there. Maybe that is just an illusion. If you would care to, please start the discussions that you think necessary. I am ready to learn. Paula. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:01:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.36]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9F35A104075 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 05:01:19 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=WPFKxU8BP7qN9kMwCL1LQr9s5lpre2qjb0h2uyCwApK5EdT8b4j8nJ0VG+Y8pI0fJoB9cHhjR3XuwJSTUC6s1pkuk7QYDhdZ6WUaCdcl3Hv9/V8lLDxjsf7RMZOXCnI9; Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 13:01:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 13:01:19 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38823 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2006 13:01:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2006 13:01:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2006 13:01:18 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1FGFKl-0004jL-IX for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:01:07 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060306130107.GA14828@ccil.org> References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:01:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Auriel scripsit: > I had the temerity to broach the subject of the peculiar ethnic casting > choices during the broadcast of Earthsea that resulted in making me the > instant target of contempt, mockery and derision. It gives me cause to > wonder how far have we really come if those drawn to UKL works, people I > generally ascribe justly or not to a some what higher level of thought > and attributes of some depth and sagacity are still capable of such > foreshortened vision? I was told that it was I that was was the racist > for even noticing such a thing. "I have known Ged for some thirty years now, and that pettulant whiteboy on the screen the other day was someone else, that's all." --me, in a different forum. > AsI have spoken to Race, may I then . . . have at Gender? I don't think anyone has ever pointed out that, although UKL's plot, theme, character motivations, and preferred skin colors were flung down and danced upon by the producers, they did not dare to touch any of her gender assignments. Ged is a Boy and Tenar is a Girl, and that's that; what's more, every one of the minor characters has same gender as his or her counterpart in the book. Thank you for stimulating this insight. > Is the term deemed inaccurate and so far removed from UKL works as to > not have the relevance that I perceive? Delicacy is not my forte, could > my senses be so course as to have missed the subtle interplay of this > community's commensal discourse betwixt reality and fiction on this so > timely a subject? More likely nobody thought about it until you brought it up. -- The experiences of the past show John Cowan that there has always been a discrepancy cowan@ccil.org between plans and performance. http://www.ap.org --Emperor Hirohito, August 1945 http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:01:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.227]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E82B7444B1 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:40:52 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=JaDo0dwEI8i7EWnuMepHemb1Cr6tQ+5iiA1WPnX8+p1TLHQ4Z6oq0+IFiXffM4IRND6UEQd/guicPwTyrjBGjAcAaDgJXwIMMtR8MuYp+QtpJpcv24eGEVK1MxU3GdpE; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n7.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 15:40:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 15:40:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 15:40:52 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: princess_alicat@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25268 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2006 15:40:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2006 15:40:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.201.72) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2006 15:40:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 80099 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 15:40:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20060306154049.80097.qmail@web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.49.140.133] by web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 15:40:49 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 68.142.201.72 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cat X-Yahoo-Profile: princess_alicat Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:40:49 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Am I too sensitive or too subtle? Not at all, and I agree that the casting choices for that tv movie were quite disappointing. I noticed in my brief perusal of the Earthsea TV message boards that those who weren't bothered by the casting choices were newer fans, perhaps being introduced to Earthsea by the tv series itself. > My search within this group yielded not even > once the term transgender in within a post. I would be very interested to see such a discussion here! I've only ever read Earthsea and The Beginning Place (in high school, didn't like it at all at the time, I should probably re-read it), so I'm not sure how much I could contribute to the conversation. Alison ___________________________________________________________ NEW Yahoo! Cars - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online! http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:01:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.41]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B0D9CB5D0 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:58:45 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=ZZIh5itBTroermQUK2TErhyPZd3bk8mAszRrZmFaDc3x8oc8Vy9ifWa0Mh+vzfKFefHst9OKbyPbrPrrDOFYOvQTk4aCkQ4ZUwwrgO3DP4NmHvZLV2NfEXJl0vcKzhTU; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 15:58:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 15:58:44 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: princess_alicat@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40251 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2006 15:55:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2006 15:55:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31003.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.200.166) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2006 15:55:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 29637 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 15:55:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20060306155541.29635.qmail@web31003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.49.140.133] by web31003.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 15:55:41 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 68.142.200.166 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cat X-Yahoo-Profile: princess_alicat Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:55:41 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There are no transgender people in my > aquaintance, therefore it is > not a subject that i need to discuss. > > I try to accept all people the way they are. I > believe that I am able > to jump across all prejudices, because they > arent really there. > > Maybe that is just an illusion. I believe that the first sentence is shown to be untrue by the third sentence, and vice-versa. Just because you know no trans people doesn't meen you don't *need* to discuss it. It may make discussion more necessary. How many of us are going to meet an alien or travel to an alien world? And yet here we are, discussing it. It may be much more beneficial to discuss issues of "the real world" than wondering about fantasy civilizations. Here in Canada, the equal marriage debate is ongoing. It's a hot-button issue even for those who have no gay or lesbian friends. I was asked a couple of years ago to participate in a study about bisexuality and accessibility to health care. It wasn't until I was discussing my experiences with others that I realised that there are barriers I didn't see, even though they were right in front of me. Two examples, and my opinion. :) Alison ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:01:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.35]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4F14ACB598 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:58:55 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=oogG+z6tEPC6SAnBGazCQBXyNL4VrEztcHIrFaw6t+qvLl3zyHCWAIl7MqWgI3b6+6spopPWvWzt5zTC6bZjdM15hZ7WdYuF/LiteiLcJ2bHIhJvxZlTdC8VTjIAQYcE; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 15:58:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 15:58:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: princess_alicat@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16131 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2006 15:58:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2006 15:58:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.201.72) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2006 15:58:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 88118 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 15:58:46 -0000 Message-ID: <20060306155846.88116.qmail@web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.49.140.133] by web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 15:58:46 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20060306130107.GA14828@ccil.org> X-Originating-IP: 68.142.201.72 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cat X-Yahoo-Profile: princess_alicat Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:58:46 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I don't think anyone has ever pointed out that, > although UKL's plot, theme, character > motivations, and preferred skin colors were > flung down and danced upon by the producers, > they did not dare to touch any of her gender > assignments. Well ... what about the school of Roke? There were girls there. Magic wasn't gendered anymore. They messed with gender, too. Alison ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 06 23:01:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.44]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D8A00CB593 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:22:37 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=d1U00jbn1ASTzK0U/4WP+pTg1NXlRU6QNGdCqW/TuCZni35G3to3Ngh2/JeVDAhQBmh9hUCt9Gn2Zh/MGVezqrGOiP91MwlDAkpCyPAgGGg1hDa2+hu5wVrV0z5pp1xl; Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 16:22:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 16:22:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81461 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2006 16:22:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2006 16:22:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2006 16:22:34 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1FGIQV-0004sy-5V for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:19:15 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060306161915.GC7107@ccil.org> References: <20060306130107.GA14828@ccil.org> <20060306155846.88116.qmail@web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060306155846.88116.qmail@web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:19:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cat scripsit: > Well ... what about the school of Roke? There > were girls there. Magic wasn't gendered anymore. > They messed with gender, too. Fair enough. But that's gender as an abstract rule (magic-workers are male) as opposed to the specific gender of specific individuals shared between the book and the movie. -- That you can cover for the plentiful John Cowan and often gaping errors, misconstruals, http://www.ccil.org/~cowan and disinformation in your posts http://www.ap.org through sheer volume -- that is another cowan@ccil.org misconception. --Mike to Peter Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? 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See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 17:04:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2006 17:04:59 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060306155541.29635.qmail@web31003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.36 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:04:58 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I believe that the first sentence is shown to be > untrue by the third sentence, and vice-versa. > Just because you know no trans people doesn't > meen you don't *need* to discuss it. It may make > discussion more necessary. How many of us are > going to meet an alien or travel to an alien > world? And yet here we are, discussing it. It may > be much more beneficial to discuss issues of "the > real world" than wondering about fantasy > civilizations. What I meant is that i don't have the need for discussion in me. I would be very willing to learn more ad to discuss things i havent thought about. I simply wouldnt do it on my own, because the subject was up to now never broached in my aquaintance. Paula. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 08 06:49:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.52]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 34D45CB51A for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:44:40 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=SMcnnvUSoIU9rpq8UXlhbWDvzbwYbfygIYS5Dc/rLa3B2j9DNfYqHKnEfsdCStiCfedKZmvEZzP3hZBfVFbDkaxiEzOIBOnRbydxvvFw9LKj8R1AFuf3GioYhvhP2ZEQ; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 07:44:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 07:44:39 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15545 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2006 07:44:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2006 07:44:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2006 07:44:37 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id r.7f.70924c49 (39330) for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 02:40:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7f.70924c49.313e92f6@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6108 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 02:40:38 EST Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 545 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Dans un e-mail datŽ du 06/03/2006 11:47:30 Paris, Madrid, the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com a Žcrit : > You are racist, but you have no choice but to be one. > So does that not invalidate the judgement? > You are not racist. > > The word "racist" contains so much evil and suffering that it should never be used lightly. I do not think that being aware of and taking into account racial differences and prejudices is being a racist, it's being a realist. The children who insisted that the boy be drawn with brown crayons instead of a black one, were demanding that he not be given a label that could be harmful. People who suffer from racism become very sensitive to slight differences. I've been told by people from the French Antilles that they have more than a dozen words to express variations in skin color. They are not racists but victims. Which makes Earthsea a remarkable place because there are skin differences but people pay little attention to them. Le Guin is quietly making the point that racism is not based on physical differences but on social prejudices. There's a scene in Flannery O'Connor's "An Artificial Nigger" which describes with heart-breaking eloquence how children see, or rather do not perceive, racial differences. A "coffee-colored" man is walking though the train and Nelson's grandfather asks him, "What was that?" Nelson replies "A man." When his grandfather insists, he says, "A fat man." "An old man". Then his grandfather tells him, "That was a nigger." Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 08 06:49:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.44]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6630BCB51A for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:55:34 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=UH2UKnih/qRo7ErzpiC+4/eTwGoR7uzKKJOyOJuKfxbxlrzBC05vRt0RGv1CYkl3OkiBsYkzXMq434d1hhiJDu8SX8Vg8QGiMx1dcgtztsanYS1qqKk7kyOX1yC/LoCD; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 08:55:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 08:55:33 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96381 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2006 08:55:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2006 08:55:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2006 08:55:32 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 08:54:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 08:54:57 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7f.70924c49.313e92f6@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:54:56 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Digest Number 545 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The word "racist" contains so much evil and suffering that it should never be > used lightly Sometimes I notice that my english is not as good as I thought, or that maybe in my scientific mind i ignore conotations. English is full of conotations that make it very difficult to learn. My definition: a racist is someone that seperates people acording to their skincolor, or conects other traits with this skintone, e.g. the person is blue, therfore he smells good. > children who insisted that the boy be drawn with brown crayons instead of a > black one, were demanding that he not be given a label that could be harmful. To the sisters eyes black was the colour that came nearest to the tone of his skin. That was the point i was trying to make. to her it was no diffrent to drawing long hair on the girl next to her. Like the story you cited, she did not label him but draw what she saw. Up to the time we moved to Virginia we had never encountered prejudices because of physical traits. We did not know that the world contained racisim or political correctness. The boy was black, the girl pink and the next kid coffecoloured. That day the kids robbed the sister of her inocence, like they had been victimized by their community. > Which makes Earthsea a remarkable place because there are skin differences > but people pay little attention to them. Le Guin is quietly making the point > that racism is not based on physical differences but on social prejudices Its like traveling through Europe where people have different types of looks. You notice but you dont care, the prejudices are based on nationality. Does that really make a difference? Besides there are prejudices aginst the Kargish barbarians. And the gontish are known for their wizards. Paula. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 08 06:49:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.54]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B2569CB49C for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 05:49:54 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=D6brGU+JK9b215MaVI3VvCPIy0susUjZPLkUchmNqR7OVvE2awN4muHe8DnDhBGY8kjgN1Uwn6XFsZg56Alxoy3MfQ6IwN8pq/0iYq5WxaMpch8xm26FW6fV9nfpZt0x; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 13:49:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.61] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 13:49:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ldavis@oceanfree.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81886 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2006 13:49:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2006 13:49:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ni-mail1.dna.utvinternet.net) (194.46.8.62) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2006 13:49:50 -0000 Received: from DECLAN (unverified [194.46.178.154]) by ni-mail1.dna.utvinternet.net (Vircom SMTPRS 4.2.425.22) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:48:59 +0000 X-Modus-BlackList: ldavis@oceanfree.net=OK Message-ID: <010501c641ed$e21e9ef0$5649fea9@DECLAN> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Originating-IP: 194.46.8.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Laurence A Davis" X-Yahoo-Profile: laurencedvs Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:48:55 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Digest Number 545 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Racial prejudice is by no means confined to the United States. It is unfortunately very much alive and kicking throughout the world, including Western Europe, as current statistics on racial violence in Europe make abundantly clear. I see ugly instances of racial prejudice on a regular basis in Ireland, where I live. Very recently, for example, I hailed a taxi at the central train station. As the cab was pulling out the driver pointed towards a bus crossing our path and sneered, "Now they're even driving buses." I looked and saw the world for a moment through his eyes. From his perspective, the fact that the bus driver was black was a problem, and he expected that I would share this prejudice and laugh along with him because I am white. Instead I challenged him, and spent the remainder of the journey arguing (futilely, as it turned out) with him about his unquestioned assumptions. As Le Guin has observed on numerous occasions, such unquestioned assumptions find their way with alarming frequency into works of fiction as well. In her essay "Unquestioned Assumptions", for example, Le Guin remarks that arrogance is usually ignorant. It can be innocent, and children's ignorance of how others think and feel ought to be forgiven, even while it is being corrected. But no contemporary writer can legitimately claim either ignorance or innocence as a defense of prejudice or bigotry in their writing, whether that prejudice takes the form of assuming that his or her readers are all white, male, straight, Christian, young, whatever. As other contributors to this discussion have very helpfully pointed out, Le Guin quietly challenges such assumptions in her own fiction. In doing so, she helps to plant the seeds of a radically different way of seeing and living. Incidentally, on this particular subject, what do others make of the character of Rakam in Le Guin's story, "A Woman's Liberation", re-printed in *Four Ways to Forgiveness*? Rakam is born a slave on the racially-based class world of Werel, where the assets or slaves are typically lighter in skin color than the owners. Rakam, however, is an exception to the general rule, because she is dark black, the product of an exploitative sexual encounter between the dark-skinned owner of the slave compound and Rakam's somewhat lighter-skinned, asset-class mother. It seems to me Rakam's experiences raise some very difficult and challenging questions that are particularly resonant in the context of the history of colonial slavery. Laurence The New Utopian Politics of Ursula K. Le Guin's The Dispossessed ----- Original Message ----- From: "jokerinchen" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:54 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Digest Number 545 > Its like traveling through Europe where people have different types > of looks. You notice but you dont care, the prejudices are based on > nationality. Does that really make a difference? Besides there are > prejudices aginst the Kargish barbarians. And the gontish are known > for their wizards. > > Paula. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 08 06:50:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.37]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A0BA102BB1 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:48:38 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=JZOJ6Vq04AmAkHkOuPZlLMgYRFitN4e0a0S12TuAAk/jUOnIrUqXSa+aozebvVcAINZKVt4DVtB0EmbtmWg7OjqYkKU9Lodr0tGEjz/s/UmnesBYlvAJfiM9rAaqzGY8; Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:48:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:48:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: bschrack1@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8332 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2006 14:48:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2006 14:48:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (63.240.77.81) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2006 14:48:34 -0000 Received: from [68.55.3.219] (c-68-55-3-219.hsd1.md.comcast.net[68.55.3.219]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2006030714094901100kopdle>; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 14:09:50 +0000 Message-ID: <440D93FA.40803@comcast.net> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <010501c641ed$e21e9ef0$5649fea9@DECLAN> In-Reply-To: <010501c641ed$e21e9ef0$5649fea9@DECLAN> X-Originating-IP: 63.240.77.81 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bonnie Schrack X-Yahoo-Profile: bonnieschrack Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 09:08:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Digest Number 545 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Lawrence, The character Rakam is very dear to me. When you say, > Incidentally, on this particular subject, what do others make of the > character of Rakam in Le Guin's story, "A Woman's Liberation", > re-printed in > *Four Ways to Forgiveness*? Rakam is born a slave on the racially-based > class world of Werel, where the assets or slaves are typically lighter in > skin color than the owners. Rakam, however, is an exception to the general > rule, because she is dark black, the product of an exploitative sexual > encounter between the dark-skinned owner of the slave compound and Rakam's > somewhat lighter-skinned, asset-class mother. It seems to me Rakam's > experiences raise some very difficult and challenging questions that are > particularly resonant in the context of the history of colonial slavery. Do you mean that she points to the way people who are a mix of the physical types of people who have been oppressed, and those who oppressed them, can be treated badly by both sides, as though they were somehow to blame for their appearance not being "one thing or the other," or even in her case, appearing more similar to the oppressor? Or what other difficult and challenging questions were you thinking of? Thanks, Bonnie > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 08 06:49:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [209.73.160.85]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 20EA144329 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:16:41 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=IKX+Ew+N/IH6yxL8sxJ859N90wJkqsl67m+22+0FytdaF1/5tkMh5f7N/dHTpBp9VHlRH2dncIWnpqipRZIIL5qsxW0Lhe/zCKMK4L6DIplYsZIAGMud0mR7wGC+9lXH; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:16:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:16:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97579 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2006 14:16:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2006 14:16:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fmmailgate05.web.de) (217.72.192.243) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2006 14:16:37 -0000 Received: by fmmailgate05.web.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/webde Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id k27EGWcN024572 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:16:32 +0100 Received: from [172.208.171.18] (helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp08.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (WEB.DE 4.106 #94) id 1FGczD-0000SA-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 15:16:28 +0100 Message-Id: <3E9A9823-178C-41AC-82A0-D4603C204DAA@web.de> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Originating-IP: 217.72.192.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Diane Severson X-Yahoo-Profile: divadiane1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:13:32 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] The Other Wind WAS Re: namas-tae Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hannah et al, I just finished reading the Tales from Earthsea and the Other Wind. Wow! I can't believe I've waited so long! But I have several other UKL books that I haven't read yet. I like to savor them and don't want to gobble them all up at once. By the Way, if any of *you* haven't read the Other Wind yet, there might be spoilers coming up. Just a warning. Anyway, what is it that you are confused about, Hannah? Is it that the BIG question - "will there still be magic in Earthsea after they fix the wrong?" doesn't get answered at the end? Personally, I hope that means we are in store for another installment in Earthsea! UKL leaves a lot of questions open at the end of this one doesn't she? Diane ------------------------ Re: namas-tae welcome! and let me encourage you to read the next 2 Earthsea books Tales from Earthsea and The Other Wind. I just re read all 6 books straight through which was a joy - although I still feel confused about the ending of the Other Wind Hannah Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 08 06:49:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n31a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n31a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [209.73.160.90]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6178410245F for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:17:39 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=RW27qjbcVYO7P+IO2g2887P9KcYcbnUe81H9fJVl+9CgiYR3jZmyZBaqLjlwBLtDxv1now4f+RmV6G2hW/jFDOuJiU6YsBvaS1HqK8NNgiR2Z9dTiQEGPsJdktG/YRD1; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:17:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.61] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:17:39 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23272 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2006 14:17:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2006 14:17:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fmmailgate04.web.de) (217.72.192.242) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2006 14:17:37 -0000 Received: by fmmailgate04.web.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/webde Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id k27EGYT2016681 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:16:34 +0100 Received: from [172.208.171.18] (helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp08.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (WEB.DE 4.106 #94) id 1FGczI-0000SA-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 15:16:34 +0100 Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Originating-IP: 217.72.192.242 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Diane Severson X-Yahoo-Profile: divadiane1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:13:35 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Auriel, I'm afraid I can't answer your questions. These issues interest me for reasons I can't quite fathom myself being a white, straight, female American (those adjectives not being in any order of importance to me), but I don't profess to have any answers. I must admit to being so oblivious (or maybe it simply didn't strike me) that I don't remember noticing on my first reading that most Archipelagans were brown skinned. I do remember when I heard it on just such an online group discussion, that I was surprised. I'm not a particularly visually oriented person - I don't believe I made Ged or the rest light skinned or anything like that, just that I didn't notice they were dark-skinned. As for gender or transgender, I think that those are issues that UKL has written about but they are not the only things she writes about. Perhaps it simply hasn't come up in this particular forum? I don't know, I haven't been here that long and until recently it's been rather quiet around here. But based on the posts so far, I don't believe you would be treated badly here for bringing anything up - I for one am glad you have and personally, I don't find you coarse, open and honest, verbose - yes. ;-) Coarse, no. Diane Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 08 06:49:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n5a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n5a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.225]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 90539CB5C2 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:17:31 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=HP4bbA6WuhyXvJLJRUCmXXQNWPlGw+0NmdzpwK1WjzJpfJpAlf8jHQHcXWHubxHcgV0/mADKdGwnQPxKNu2mplMUWmai5B4WvEcLxB74sGVOq1rg4JDBq54Z0xsvGyl6; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n5.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:17:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:17:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:17:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9362 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2006 14:17:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2006 14:17:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.226) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2006 14:17:30 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n6.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:17:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:17:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.71] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:17:26 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <010501c641ed$e21e9ef0$5649fea9@DECLAN> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.226 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 14:17:25 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Digest Number 545 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have experienced racisim only in the US and in Australia. I am not saying it doesnt exist elswhere. But the real question is what can we do against it? does a non white ged really help? personally i never noticed that skin colour had any meaning in UKLs books until sombody here pointed it out. wether i can identify with a charachter in a book depends mostonly on the personallity. (shevek is really someone i would like to be similar to) then in the tv adaption of the earthseebooks, do you think that a darkskinned ged would have made some people turn of and others turn on? from what i have gleaned from the internet (not owning or wathching tv)the casting in total was pretty much completly off. So was the script and the production. Do you really think a black actor would make people think (however shortly) about their prejudices? I dont believe in the integrating power of telivision. For a fruitful discussion of racisim we need to establish, what it is, where it happens, how it happens. then how do we react, how do we change the social precjudices. How does UKL deal with the subject matter. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 08 06:50:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n31a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n31a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [209.73.160.90]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 405C0103FAD for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:34:31 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=SwZ/lYKC2ODy1Ksf/nDN1N+F2xBEsoKMnJvCn8PEU5jQDcoiPHT+vBxumKj7c/t0Dqzy9Oh+DGZ8hd1xBssEKiJqLdrX+nIS2kvtu02rJMbwIbOH8o/ZScCj7ez4fi4k; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:34:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 14:34:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49144 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2006 14:34:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2006 14:34:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2006 14:34:28 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1FGdGc-0003te-0y for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 09:34:26 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060307143425.GD26941@ccil.org> References: <010501c641ed$e21e9ef0$5649fea9@DECLAN> In-Reply-To: <010501c641ed$e21e9ef0$5649fea9@DECLAN> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:34:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Digest Number 545 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Laurence A Davis scripsit: > Rakam, however, is an exception to the general > rule, because she is dark black, the product of an exploitative sexual > encounter between the dark-skinned owner of the slave compound and Rakam's > somewhat lighter-skinned, asset-class mother. It seems to me Rakam's > experiences raise some very difficult and challenging questions that are > particularly resonant in the context of the history of colonial slavery. Nothing unusual about that. Black people, it's been said (in a U.S. context), come in all colors. In fact, one of the classic ways to deflate the black-men-are-after-our-white-women racist fantasy is to point out that there are plenty of light-skinned women in the black community already! (This is less true than it used to be, simply because many people with minimal black ancestry are now passing as white.) Mark Twain wrote an tremendous satire of the babies-switched-at-birth tale in his novel _Pudd'nhead Wilson_. The usual version of this story is of course about the poor child who turns out to come from "good blood" at the end. In PW the very light-skinned nurse of a white child swaps the baby for her own baby, who is even lighter than she is. The story follows both boys as they become men, when the whole story comes out at last. When all is discovered and put "right", however, two lives end up ruined: the "white" child is as unfit for a life of privilege and responsibility as the "black" child is for a life at the bottom of society. It's a painful read. -- I marvel at the creature: so secret and John Cowan so sly as he is, to come sporting in the pool cowan@ccil.org before our very window. Does he think that http://www.ap.org Men sleep without watch all night? --Faramir http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 08 06:50:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n4a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n4a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.224]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A63AF444CE for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:04:43 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=LvfAnjVn7DD/geNvr7vEnKrKm6R0k3DAOKqKEkv+Rm6IdW1G5GylSr8huIiHt74MBK5lfQgdKje/fE4VabcvQbX7XmH3RglNmMR8fGA8+qwd+CWVH8+N5LARNllXJSHW; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n4.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 17:04:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 17:04:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2006 17:04:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ldavis@oceanfree.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34637 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2006 17:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2006 17:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ni-mail1.dna.utvinternet.net) (194.46.8.62) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2006 17:04:40 -0000 Received: from DECLAN (unverified [194.46.191.156]) by ni-mail1.dna.utvinternet.net (Vircom SMTPRS 4.2.425.22) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:04:28 +0000 X-Modus-BlackList: ldavis@oceanfree.net=OK Message-ID: <008a01c64209$30698b40$5649fea9@DECLAN> To: References: <010501c641ed$e21e9ef0$5649fea9@DECLAN> <440D93FA.40803@comcast.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Originating-IP: 194.46.8.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Laurence A Davis" X-Yahoo-Profile: laurencedvs Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:04:24 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Digest Number 545 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bonnie, Thank you for the thought-provoking reply. It seems to me that what you describe is precisely the experience of Rakam, who suffers at the hands of both the owners and her fellow assets. When she is a "pup", older asset children call her "Blackie" and "Bossie". Matters only get worse when she enters the Great House. When she returns to the compound to see her grandmother the children she used to play with throw dirt and stones at her and tear her clothing. In short, precisely because she represents a mixture of what Werelian class institutions are designed to separate, Rakam is regarded with suspicion by those on both the upper and lower rungs of the social hierarchy. In terms of the unwritten world of our Earth, many people have argued that hybridity challenges the neat and impermeable categories (racial and otherwise) on which hierarchical societies depend. In the case of colonial hybridity, the existence of the hybrid at times generated ambivalence in the master class, and so altered the authority of power. I suppose that some of the difficult and challenging questions I had in mind were the following. In what ways has the existence of hybrid peoples in racialized societies functioned to challenge or support the existing system of racial oppression? What identities have people in this position adopted, and how have they related to those in a position different from their own? To what extent have these identities been publicly acknowledged? In the United States, for example, the 2000 census was the first to permit multiple self-identification. I read "A Woman's Liberation" as, in part, a tale about boundary-crossing and the implications such crossings have for both self and society in the context of hierarchy and domination. Laurence The New Utopian Politics of Ursula K. Le Guin's The Dispossessed http://www.rowmanlittlefield.com/Catalog/SingleBook.shtml?command=Search&db=^DB/CATALOG.db&eqSKUdata=073910862X ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bonnie Schrack" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Digest Number 545 > Do you mean that she points to the way people who are a mix of the > physical types of people who have been oppressed, and those who > oppressed them, can be treated badly by both sides, as though they were > somehow to blame for their appearance not being "one thing or the > other," or even in her case, appearing more similar to the oppressor? > > Or what other difficult and challenging questions were you thinking of? > > Thanks, > > Bonnie Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 08 06:52:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.221]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DEA5444B4 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:06:53 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=dDrY7T6SKD3TkxUkDzs7pG25dWeOGWqJKvOCUhuyEEA92qYAWYnmYLOOkqPNCSMKee4yEQ+BKKxTRSuBrxI2OyxhlVfPlixdD2xVjA9hmoWJEX8B85S7m8aoS5niHeK0; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 08:06:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 08:06:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 08:06:52 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: rhea_dnl@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50332 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 08:06:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2006 08:06:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web37409.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.87.62) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 08:06:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 55102 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2006 08:06:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20060308080624.55100.qmail@web37409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [61.17.165.87] by web37409.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 08:06:24 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 209.191.87.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: rhea X-Yahoo-Profile: rhea_dnl Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:06:24 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen]Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Um, Hi, I couldnât help putting in my two bits when I read these mails. Iâve lived in India most of my life and Iâve grown up on a lot of literature by British authors, mostly what was available at the time, and honestly the colour issue never really came up amongst us as kids though yeah, in retrospect the literature that was available at the time could be considered racist and sexist now, but only if I really stop to think about it; earlier it just passed us by. The only thing we were curious about was the difference between western culture and ours (food, clothing, academics, entertainment..). With Earthsea it was mostly finding so much of myself in Ged, his juvenile arrogance, his impatience, the long climb towards the light and the wisdom that comes with the book·all that great stuff·.I figured only later after reading from LeGuins interviews that it was a conscious effort on her part to have people from different ethnicities in her books, and from her interviews its obvious that she tried to consider all possible aspects of the human situation while writing them. Though the book that spelt it out best for me, is Toni Morrisonâs The Bluest Eye. It got me examining these issues in my own country, and my country has had its share of oppression, segregation and gender biases, not all a result of colonialism, though for convenience Iâll narrow down on the rate at which fairness creams sell here. The idea that whiter is automatically better is perpetuated despite the fact we gained independence from colonial rule 59 years ago. I donât relate to The Bluest Eye only because of the race issue that it deals with on the surface, but the idea that self-hate, to despise ourselves because of the way we look, can be taught from an early age. On the one hand here you see people trying to preserve the purity of caste by marriage and on the other hand expect white offspring with green eyes to magically appear, and if not, desperately trying to change their colouring with beauty products. Itâs not like getting a tan or a colouring your hair, since it involves your entire identity and sense of self worth. On the other hand I lived in Russia before that for a while as a child and I always, always had people, especially women, pawing at me and reveling in my brown skin, except I didnât know that was the main reason at the time, but I didnât feel like a monkey in zoo, I sensed no negativity there, just the open curiosity and affection. Rhea. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 08 06:52:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.226]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F0ACCB53C for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:03:01 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=S277xGImEV3Fa7DMOLkaEDv/nYm1TfqlXe2WarqNLE8wF8IyUH4RbcsQF2zPjUSDMTsj8D8eSlYuWDgKre6Lkkh8l/2nWNAUTQaK5OmnQo83moQ+FA2z9upfGBLB/MVM; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n6.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 09:03:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 09:03:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 09:03:00 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: central_21@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56400 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 09:02:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2006 09:02:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 09:02:59 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 09:02:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 09:02:43 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.55 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 59.144.22.10 From: "central" X-Yahoo-Profile: central_21 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:02:43 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea candle wisdom Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes the sort of philosophy that is intrinsic to the earthsea series has always awed me as well. the lines "only in silence ....... bright the eagle's flight on the empty sky" are my first memories of the series, i was hooked after readin that. about ur candle wisdom and the tombs of atuan, although there may not be any specific lines i think the entire book can be taken as a bit of candle wisdom considering that it is by far the darkest book of the 4. tenar's world could be considered as darkness (ignorance, solitude) itself and its worship therein, when suddenly one spark from ged's staff opened the door of her mind to see what her eyes had never shown her in all her time in the tombs below, the true beauty of her domain. almost like a spark to one's imagination. another thing i can recall about the series is the emphasis on balance or equilibrium. wizards inspite of being masters of their reality are TAUGHT to use that power with the utmost caution. one line goes something like this "quelling a rain cloud on gont could mean floods at the other end of the world". its quite like the yin and yang, two opposites that must be kept in sync with each other. when i first read the series a while back it almost made me think what the consequences of a 'pure' world would be, would it even be possible to get that far? would it be bound to fail keepin in mind nature's tendency to even things out? entropy. this is one of my favourite quotes, its supposed to be from a sufi poem " out beyond the ideas of wrong and right doing, there is a field. i'll meet u there" . WOW !!!!! that's where i long to be. ya i know this post has wandered a bit but i think its stayed true to its roots ... the eternal interplay of light and dark. who will provide the grand design? what is yours and what is mine? cause there are no more new frontiers, we have to make it here. - eagles --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Riz Virk" wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > I've always found the earthsea serious particularly inspiring. > > One thing (among many) that I found interesting was the "candle wisdom" > embedded in some of the book - oddly enough I found that I could sum up > why I liked a "Wizard from Earthsea" and "The Farthest Shore" with > single lines from each book (as much as these things can be summed up): > > -Wizard of Earthsea: "To light a candle is to cast a shadow." > > -The Farthest Shore: "Sometimes to see the light of a candle you have to > go to a very dark place." > > I didn't find any particular lines in the other earthsea books that seem > to capture all of the complexity and yet simplicity of those books. Any > suggestions or thoughts?? > > Thanks > Riz > > > --------------------------------------- > Rizwan Virk > CTO > CambridgeDocs > www.cambridgedocs.com > 617-905-3518 > riz@... > personal: riz@... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Diane Severson > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:58 AM > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] namas-tae > > > > > > Hi there and welcome, > > I'm just getting around to reading The Tales from Earthsea and The Other > Wind for the first time and loving it. I'm feeling more and more like I > must re-read the Earthsea quartet, but I've lent my copy out to someone > and never got it back.... > > Diane > > > the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com schrieb am 04.03.06 13:06:48: > > > > There is 1 message in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. namas-tae > From: "central" > > > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:19:35 -0000 > From: "central" > Subject: namas-tae > > hi just joined this group today. here's my story for all interested ... > > read the earthsea quartet about 10 years ago, borrowed from a friend, in > my 'formative' days and it has been an inspiration ever since. iv been > searchin for a copy and finally found one a few weeks ago. of course i > just had to re-read it and it still amazes me how much more iv learned > from the book now that im older and a little wiser too. tehanu was such > an incredible endin, although to watch ged so down and out was painful, > but then his re-vival proves that there is life beyond magic. the entire > series has really gone full circle, a child of power growing up into the > world, reaching the peaks, sacrificing all his knowledge and mastery for > a higher cause, experiencing solitude and weakness, yet findin the > strength to go on (with tenar's help of course) and then..... another > child of power's journey into the world, from the darkness (including > ignorance) of her childhood, beginning. > > the beauty of ULG writing is its depth, the way that she can describe > the simple lives people such as the weavers of lobanery to the splendour > of the wise and mighty. another thing about her writing that stands out > is the philosophy that is intrinsic to the world and the characters > there-in. > Ged's dialogues with lebannen (hope thats the write spellin) were > incredible for me to read through. > > anyway enough rambling, hi everyone, lookin forward to sharing. > > bright the eagle's flight on the empty sky ..... > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 08 06:52:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.41]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 114CD44383 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 03:12:33 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=ZOKxpRhiRzpjMztwdBWGIv58gsa14K13ou/jRfCkkAKOKT11Xi3qvQbGlG7hNZXdAIeqNe6Js2EexnKc2RS2tVPBOyuyoRDnMiMNic26t3M8ywx6PyuBbuFuCuvjN52r; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 11:12:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.35] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 11:12:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12052 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 11:12:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2006 11:12:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 11:12:27 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1FGwaC-00017Y-Sl for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 06:11:56 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060308111156.GC7556@ccil.org> References: <20060308080624.55100.qmail@web37409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060308080624.55100.qmail@web37409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:11:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen]Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit rhea scripsit: > Though the book that spelt it out best for me, is Toni Morrisonâs > The Bluest Eye. It got me examining these issues in my own country, > and my country has had its share of oppression, segregation and gender > biases, not all a result of colonialism, though for convenience Iâll > narrow down on the rate at which fairness creams sell here. The idea > that whiter is automatically better is perpetuated despite the fact we > gained independence from colonial rule 59 years ago. Not so long, really. As an American of Irish descent, I was quite surprised when I went to Ireland in the 80s to find out how British the Irish still were, despite 60 years of decolonization. (200 years, that's different. :-)) > I don't relate to The Bluest Eye only because of the race issue > that it deals with on the surface, but the idea that self-hate, to > despise ourselves because of the way we look, can be taught from an > early age. On the one hand here you see people trying to preserve > the purity of caste by marriage and on the other hand expect white > offspring with green eyes to magically appear, and if not, desperately > trying to change their colouring with beauty products. In the particular case of India, there is also the residue of 5000-year-old colonialism, when the Indo-European-speaking peoples invaded Dravidian-speaking India and imposed a color (caste) line on the natives; the linguistic evidence is very clear about that. The concepts spread all the way south, even though the South kept its languages. -- Is not a patron, my Lord [Chesterfield], John Cowan one who looks with unconcern on a man http://www.ccil.org/~cowan struggling for life in the water, and when http://www.ap.org he has reached ground encumbers him with help? cowan@ccil.org --Samuel Johnson Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Mar 10 00:44:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.55]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 84C52103FBB for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:42:44 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=CkH527B3aL8OV0vU8Yy7Q4dEvG2c6ry3On0MnOUoeLSrz9Q821qV5oSzX7bz9kdShOggr5PAQHmTzXHyc11sKB55kuNigOyUTh9v4dLJSUlLxZ3YcOkii4q7LxWCIdQT; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 18:42:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.36] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 18:42:43 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: char@userfriendlytech.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15880 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 18:42:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2006 18:42:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server304.com) (216.35.196.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 18:42:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 3694 invoked by uid 502); 8 Mar 2006 18:42:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.102?) (char@24.19.146.177) by ns1.server304.com with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 18:42:35 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <1141843419.15825.125.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.1 X-Originating-IP: 216.35.196.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Charlene Osman X-Yahoo-Profile: osmanchar Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:43:39 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea candle wisdom Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What stood out to me in Tehanu, and summed up what I got out of reading the book mostly, is something Aunty Moss says: "Who knows where a woman begins and ends? ... I have roots, I have roots deeper than this island. Deeper than the sea, older than the raising of the lands. I go back in to the dark.... I go back into the dark! Before the moon I was. No one knows, no one knows, no one can say what I am, what a woman is, a woman of power, a woman's power, deeper than the roots of trees, deeper than the roots of islands, older than the Making, older than the moon. Who dares ask questions of the dark? Who will ask the dark its name?" And then Tenar says, "I will. I lived long enough in the dark." So I have spent some time since then exploring my own roots, my own darkness, the deep dark springs of my own power. That bit of story dust was one of my guides in a great mythological/psychological journey, and I am glad for it. Our culture seems to have so few stories to guide us as we grow and change throughout our lives. --Charlene On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 09:02 +0000, central wrote: > yes the sort of philosophy that is intrinsic to the earthsea series > has always awed me as well. the lines "only in silence ....... bright > the eagle's flight on the empty sky" are my first memories of the > series, i was hooked after readin that. > about ur candle wisdom and the tombs of atuan, although there may not > be any specific lines i think the entire book can be taken as a bit > of > candle wisdom considering that it is by far the darkest book of the > 4. > tenar's world could be considered as darkness (ignorance, solitude) > itself and its worship therein, when suddenly one spark from ged's > staff opened the door of her mind to see what her eyes had never > shown > her in all her time in the tombs below, the true beauty of her > domain. > almost like a spark to one's imagination. > another thing i can recall about the series is the emphasis on > balance > or equilibrium. wizards inspite of being masters of their reality are > TAUGHT to use that power with the utmost caution. one line goes > something like this "quelling a rain cloud on gont could mean floods > at the other end of the world". its quite like the yin and yang, two > opposites that must be kept in sync with each other. when i first > read > the series a while back it almost made me think what the consequences > of a 'pure' world would be, would it even be possible to get that > far? > would it be bound to fail keepin in mind nature's tendency to even > things out? entropy. > > this is one of my favourite quotes, its supposed to be from a sufi > poem " out beyond the ideas of wrong and right doing, there is a > field. i'll meet u there" . WOW !!!!! that's where i long to be. > > ya i know this post has wandered a bit but i think its stayed true to > its roots ... the eternal interplay of light and dark. > > who will provide the grand design? > what is yours and what is mine? > cause there are no more new frontiers, we have to make it here. > - eagles > > > --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Riz Virk" wrote: > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I've always found the earthsea serious particularly inspiring. > > > > One thing (among many) that I found interesting was the "candle > wisdom" > > embedded in some of the book - oddly enough I found that I could > sum > up > > why I liked a "Wizard from Earthsea" and "The Farthest Shore" with > > single lines from each book (as much as these things can be summed > up): > > > > -Wizard of Earthsea: "To light a candle is to cast a shadow." > > > > -The Farthest Shore: "Sometimes to see the light of a candle you > have to > > go to a very dark place." > > > > I didn't find any particular lines in the other earthsea books that > seem > > to capture all of the complexity and yet simplicity of those > books. > Any > > suggestions or thoughts?? > > > > Thanks > > Riz > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > > Rizwan Virk > > CTO > > CambridgeDocs > > www.cambridgedocs.com > > 617-905-3518 > > riz@... > > personal: riz@... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Diane Severson > > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:58 AM > > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] namas-tae > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi there and welcome, > > > > I'm just getting around to reading The Tales from Earthsea and The > Other > > Wind for the first time and loving it. I'm feeling more and more > like I > > must re-read the Earthsea quartet, but I've lent my copy out to > someone > > and never got it back.... > > > > Diane > > > > > > the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com schrieb am 04.03.06 13:06:48: > > > > > > > > There is 1 message in this issue. > > > > Topics in this digest: > > > > 1. namas-tae > > From: "central" > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:19:35 -0000 > > From: "central" > > Subject: namas-tae > > > > hi just joined this group today. here's my story for all interested > ... > > > > read the earthsea quartet about 10 years ago, borrowed from a > friend, in > > my 'formative' days and it has been an inspiration ever since. iv > been > > searchin for a copy and finally found one a few weeks ago. of > course > i > > just had to re-read it and it still amazes me how much more iv > learned > > from the book now that im older and a little wiser too. tehanu was > such > > an incredible endin, although to watch ged so down and out was > painful, > > but then his re-vival proves that there is life beyond magic. the > entire > > series has really gone full circle, a child of power growing up > into > the > > world, reaching the peaks, sacrificing all his knowledge and > mastery > for > > a higher cause, experiencing solitude and weakness, yet findin the > > strength to go on (with tenar's help of course) and then..... > another > > child of power's journey into the world, from the darkness > (including > > ignorance) of her childhood, beginning. > > > > the beauty of ULG writing is its depth, the way that she can > describe > > the simple lives people such as the weavers of lobanery to the > splendour > > of the wise and mighty. another thing about her writing that stands > out > > is the philosophy that is intrinsic to the world and the characters > > there-in. > > Ged's dialogues with lebannen (hope thats the write spellin) were > > incredible for me to read through. > > > > anyway enough rambling, hi everyone, lookin forward to sharing. > > > > bright the eagle's flight on the empty sky ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 1. Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. > > 2. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > 3. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Mar 10 00:44:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [209.73.160.86]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CD6CC103E7A for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:17:09 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=t7Y1y45YIKSeHUVSmH2mK9CI9g9zSMeskAtZmxq1zzGbRkGea0uBuWMLw+SaRd4d601kpxoY4aeNqBsGBN5l1HXQsSn+x2QlbD7cJYhlGlUq0fSRbh/CBXUHarRot1mj; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 21:18:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.93] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 21:17:08 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99185 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 21:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2006 21:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 21:17:05 -0000 Received: from du-040-0140.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.140] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1FH61n-000DzV-EM for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:17:03 +0000 Message-ID: <001901c642f5$a67f7730$8c749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: <3E9A9823-178C-41AC-82A0-D4603C204DAA@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.143 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:17:04 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Other Wind WAS Re: namas-tae Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Diane et al ** spoilers ahead for The Other Wind** yes the confusion is - well what about magic in the new Earthsea? are we returning to the Earth Magic once seen as so evil? do we lose the magic of the true name? do the Earthsea people now need to embrace drab normality? and the other I have written about before - well what exactly has happened aboud death now? where are the dragons? reincarnation seems to cause some practical problems with a sudden release of centuries/millenia of souls is there a problem with getting them all reborn? and where did the souls for humans come from if not from other humans - big re-balancing going on but perhaps the numbers of animal sould make such things not material - but the mystery loss leaves me mourning, I liked the dignity of the dry land really liked the whole thing with the red princess and the embarassed king though blue skies Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Severson" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 2:13 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] The Other Wind WAS Re: namas-tae > Hannah et al, > I just finished reading the Tales from Earthsea and the Other Wind. > Wow! I can't believe I've waited so long! But I have several other > UKL books that I haven't read yet. I like to savor them and don't > want to gobble them all up at once. > > By the Way, if any of *you* haven't read the Other Wind yet, there > might be spoilers coming up. Just a warning. > > Anyway, what is it that you are confused about, Hannah? Is it that > the BIG question - "will there still be magic in Earthsea after they > fix the wrong?" doesn't get answered at the end? Personally, I hope > that means we are in store for another installment in Earthsea! UKL > leaves a lot of questions open at the end of this one doesn't she? > > Diane > > ------------------------ > Re: namas-tae > > welcome! and let me encourage you to read the next 2 Earthsea books > Tales > from Earthsea and The Other Wind. I just re read all 6 books straight > through which was a joy - although I still feel confused about the > ending of > the Other Wind > Hannah > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Mar 10 00:45:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.233]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F1D1CB2D0 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:35:52 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=ou/IIM194eJmi5O1x4N8/B2StX7NSnlOjr9cWA7GUmn86BLGbAOGgJvwDdnrhKKdMTQbQ/Nzgru4tQKpqmuBgT0UllbVzyu+GaNE3gIkZOEzy+kveB7E55o0V8mcyLkz; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n10.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 21:35:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 21:35:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2006 21:35:51 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 547 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 21:35:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2006 21:35:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 21:35:49 -0000 Received: from du-040-0140.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.140] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1FH6Jv-0001YS-Cw for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:35:47 +0000 Message-ID: <003101c642f8$4479e680$8c749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.143 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:35:48 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Digest Number 545 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was taught in equal opportunity training that any word like 'racism' 'sexism' 'ageism' was about the attitude of the dominant/majority part of society which devalues the minority/disadvantaged part of society. Just to make unfair judgements on difference without this inbuilt advantage/disadvantage is defined as simply prejudice. Of course 'all knowledge is local' a single white child in a classroom of brown children will feel disadvantaged even if in the wider society she is advantaged. Personally I taught my (pink) daughters to reach for the brown crayon or the so called 'flesh colour' when drawing people, as each being equally valid options for skin colour just as hair may be many different colours. UKL takes this subtle everyday meaning in many of her societies, but also loves to do some neat reversals - the savage white Kargs, the black Owners of Werel. of course in the Dispossessed the difference was being hairy! I do wonder how the child drawn in black felt from all this fuss and attention? what happened to pride in being black? rather than trying to accept the label that too dark is worse, only brown is acceptable, is this really getting rid of racism? Set against this helping children to see accurately, growing out of the stereotyped view of reality which comes in early social awareness, is an important step in growing up - and of course one that some people never make! needing to feel To: Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:54 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Digest Number 545 > >> The word "racist" contains so much evil and suffering that it > should never be >> used lightly > > Sometimes I notice that my english is not as good as I thought, or > that maybe in my scientific mind i ignore conotations. English is > full of conotations that make it very difficult to learn. > > My definition: a racist is someone that seperates people acording to > their skincolor, or conects other traits with this skintone, e.g. the > person is blue, therfore he smells good. > >> children who insisted that the boy be drawn with brown crayons > instead of a >> black one, were demanding that he not be given a label that could > be harmful. > > To the sisters eyes black was the colour that came nearest to the > tone of his skin. That was the point i was trying to make. to her it > was no diffrent to drawing long hair on the girl next to her. Like > the story you cited, she did not label him but draw what she saw. Up > to the time we moved to Virginia we had never encountered prejudices > because of physical traits. We did not know that the world contained > racisim or political correctness. The boy was black, the girl pink > and the next kid coffecoloured. That day the kids robbed the sister > of her inocence, like they had been victimized by their community. > > >> Which makes Earthsea a remarkable place because there are skin > differences >> but people pay little attention to them. Le Guin is quietly making > the point >> that racism is not based on physical differences but on social > prejudices > > Its like traveling through Europe where people have different types > of looks. You notice but you dont care, the prejudices are based on > nationality. Does that really make a difference? Besides there are > prejudices aginst the Kargish barbarians. And the gontish are known > for their wizards. > > Paula. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Mar 10 00:45:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.233]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9DEC0CB51A for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:18:28 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=t+S66BfQhMa6q+tLzpKvzZCKZBeU7euFE6SiKePz5ruxZ6HkLyj7W8z8TMe4T+cJIBf4jQ+VaSIIqpMD4m30/bnUWIJXEOhtDAwmivZSVDimwqfmYOVrUxvERyRDM2EM; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n10.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2006 00:18:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2006 00:18:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.200] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2006 00:18:27 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60856 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2006 00:18:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2006 00:18:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vms046pub.verizon.net) (206.46.252.46) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2006 00:18:26 -0000 Received: from Zion.bellatlantic.net ([71.241.133.36]) by vms046.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IVU002R43IHO4W0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:18:23 -0600 (CST) In-reply-to: X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.2.20060308191401.02b521a0@incoming.verizon.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 References: X-Originating-IP: 206.46.252.46 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:18:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea candle wisdom Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 09:02 AM 2006-03-08 +0000, central wrote: >when i first read the series a while back it almost made me think what the >consequences of a 'pure' world would be, would it even be possible to get >that far? would it be bound to fail keepin in mind nature's tendency to even >things out? entropy. This is a really interesting and complex issue that I don't feel equal to tackling at the moment, but I thought I would at least mention that Le Guin has played around with this very question more than once in her science fiction. Particularly striking examples include her novel *The Lathe of Heaven* and her short story "Newton's Sleep" (found in the collection *A Fisherman of the Inland Sea*.) Cheers! ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Gorillaz -- Demon Days "Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist." Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? 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See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=uzsVQ0MjJAT2Yq73tRVq9cJ6yNnrfd7RIk9sCL/76ml2NFl4zX+8KEM7qYVqjgD3SCrrOObqqSx4posu1+eLeydSRiWvVkVxwbvjK1btp5ytoVP/HeRZYajU1m5O5p+B; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2006 07:25:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2006 07:25:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50064 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2006 07:25:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2006 07:25:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.232) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2006 07:25:18 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n9.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2006 07:25:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2006 07:25:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2006 07:25:13 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003101c642f8$4479e680$8c749ed9@robins6dd110df> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.232 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 07:25:13 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Digest Number 545 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Robins- one of" wrote: > > I was taught in equal opportunity training that any word like 'racism' > 'sexism' 'ageism' was about the attitude of the dominant/majority part of > society which devalues the minority/disadvantaged part of society. Just to > make unfair judgements on difference without this inbuilt > advantage/disadvantage is defined as simply prejudice. Oh, alright. > Personally I taught my (pink) daughters to reach for the brown crayon or the > so called 'flesh colour' when drawing people, as each being equally valid > options for skin colour just as hair may be many different colours. That was the situation from which my sister entered that classroom. > UKL takes this subtle everyday meaning in many of her societies, but also > loves to do some neat reversals - the savage white Kargs, the black Owners > of Werel. > > of course in the Dispossessed the difference was being hairy! > > I do wonder how the child drawn in black felt from all this fuss and > attention? what happened to pride in being black? rather than trying to > accept the label that too dark is worse, only brown is acceptable, That was one of the points I was trying to make. is this > really getting rid of racism? Set against this helping children to see > accurately, growing out of the stereotyped view of reality which comes in > early social awareness, is an important step in growing up - and of course > one that some people never make! My sister and I were in such a position but we grew out of it. We came from a place with few foreigners/different looking people. Therfore people were just people and because everything in Virginia was different, why not also the people. The differences dont make them less or more so. > again I am reminded of the Dispossessed, with a society on Urras where > superiority/inferiority is central to how people define themselves, in stark > contrast to the received wisdom on Anarres - I love the bit where Shevek is > playing with the children and notices that the younger brother has not yet > accepted the doctrine of superiority! Again of course the twist where > Anarres grows its own stereotypes and rejects the dissident This is a situation I can really identifie with, just like Shevek himself. Really my favourite book. because he overcomes these stereotypes, not for the whole society but for himself. I would like to be more like shevek (also he is a briliant scientist, which i would also like to be) thank you for the insight. Paula. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Mar 10 00:48:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.232]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F1810444C3 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:12:22 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Pvb+1f0C/+vrEJa0pW/k//FreVW+2yuB8JizGHe/KffPVCTUvIumXlG3o5YgqCHHNCTyWt+AtzDsbEQDpV7/AO8c9EtG/KjXee3CfSHQJ+EtMtz+CpXdEWZBtAcxFrGN; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n9.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 01:12:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 01:12:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.97] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 01:12:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8226 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2006 01:11:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2006 01:11:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.115) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2006 01:11:08 -0000 Received: from gkcpu.worldnet.att.net (15.charlotte-23rh16rt-24rh15rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.242.15]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <20060310011103111004bogte>; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:11:04 +0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309201157.02b30900@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 204.127.131.115 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Melody Ivins X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 20:18:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, For anyone here who is following the discussion of race, gender and Earthsea with interest, and hasn't visited the UKL page for a while, there's a link under What's New to two essays by Pam Nolles on the subject: http://www.infinitematrix.net/faq/essays/noles.html Nolles is articulate, smart, honest, and funny. Enjoy! Melody At 12:59 AM 3/6/06, you wrote: >Ursula K. Le Guin said this: > >"Ihavereceivedlettersthat broke my heart, from adolescents of color in >this country and inEngland, telling me that when they realized that Ged >and the otherArchipelagans in the Earthsea books are not white people, >they feltincluded in the world of literary and movie fantasy for the >firsttime." >~ Speech to the Book ExpoAmerica children's literature breakfast, June, >4, 2004. > > >I will admit to nearly a half century in age but I am one in sentiment >with those aforementioned adolescents as a person of of colour who when >discovering the world of Earthsea found personal affirmation along with >power and wisdom in those enchanted words. Images that still ring true, >growing within my heart and mind with each reading over these years in >the books. > >I had the temerity to broach the subject of the peculiar ethnic casting >choices during the broadcast of Earthsea that resulted in making me the >instant target of contempt, mockery and derision. It gives me cause to >wonder how far have we really come if those drawn to UKL works, people I >generally ascribe justly or not to a some what higher level of thought >and attributes of some depth and sagacity are still capable of such >foreshortened vision? I was told that it was I that was was the racist >for even noticing such a thing. > >We have come so far that we are again fire bombing churches and >revisiting the community entertainment value of public lynching from >what I have been reading of late but I am a racist? Hmmmm. > >Personally I was disappointed by thediminutive size and dismal pallor of >Vetch. > > >I am still reticent to speak of the matter even now. Some time has past >and I have still found no way to reconcile either what I saw on screen >or the reaction of so many ofwhat I once viewed as my peers. > >Am I too sensitive or too subtle? > >I am an "Elder Sister" with four younger male snivelings who >describe me as,"Blunt as anAnvil". I suggest they exaggerate as I have >received no royalties from The ACME Anvil Company. They are all my >dearest but if they had ever known that too easily they would have run >the house to the ground despite my Mother's best efforts. > > >_______________________*_______________________ > >AsI have spoken to Race, may I then . . . have at Gender? > > >I would have thought UKL works and not just "Left Hand of Darkness" >would ferment much ongoing discussion, the distillation of which I would >still long after the fact enjoy and with continued threads of >controversy have ample opportunity to weigh in on. The relevance between >UKL transgender constructions of fiction and the now very broad >discussion on feminism/transfeminism to start with at the very least. >It's not like there are only one or two transgender persons living in >the real world to no meaningful effect. > >My search within this group yielded not even once the term transgender >in within a post. > > >Is the term deemed inaccurate and so far removed from UKL works as to >not have the relevance that I perceive? Delicacy is not my forte, could >my senses be so course as to have missed the subtle interplay of this >community's commensal discourse betwixt reality and fiction on this so >timely a subject? > > >Where other more pertinent terms used which escaped my thought to search >by? > >After all,we live in a world where gender variance can be the grounds >for murder with little or no consequence on an daily basis, that is when >it is reported at all. > >Were there some here that were concerned that such discussion may >divert attention away from the millions of natal females that are also >brutalized daily? Such was not my intent. > >I was really only curious at first since UKL writings where amongst my >first meaningful and drawn out introduction to critical thinking on what >I thought at the time were abstract thoughts on gender. > > >UKL writings became very relevant to mypersonal understanding of gender >as did a work by Ray Bradbury, "The LongAfterMidnight Girl" which helped >me reconsider the merits of putting a rope around my own neck at one >point. The rope thing? Gender Dysphoria, long story, let's hope you >don't live to regret my decision. > > > >Until when, > >Auriel Kitsu >Every decision is a path. > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Mar 10 05:44:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.41]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 16AE0103FCB for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 23:57:45 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=DudQilXhNsgOXk///eQmPLumg898UCkudZKkXSgO7hB56+VCQhif/iQzp/vSdDz3fuJMR+Krs0t1eTFm+C/dDH0temCZ/dnEcUI1kvZSWDGFjePYiPDbU+hNpDH3Xuxn; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 07:57:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 07:57:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: rhea_dnl@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68791 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2006 07:57:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2006 07:57:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.87.61) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2006 07:57:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 78919 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2006 07:57:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20060310075732.78917.qmail@web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [61.17.164.234] by web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:57:32 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309201157.02b30900@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.191.87.61 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: rhea X-Yahoo-Profile: rhea_dnl Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:57:32 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Hmm, after following that link, and the primary thought that seems to drive it, donât you think it is HOW your community is being represented rather being not represented at all that matters more? For example, I came across some old sci-fi magazines from the 1950 and though it might seem amusing now, it was clear that women were represented in a negative manner and were just figments of some male fantasy writer wild imagination earlier on, at least from what I saw in the these pulp sci fi mags that I had the good luck to come across, and when women started writing in SFF it certainly corrected these negative portrayals (like females being kidnapped by aliens for breeding purposes and cheesy stuff like that) and Ms. Le Guin and bunch of other writers took it upon themselves to fix these things·.quote from one of her interviews· ãThat's how hero stories worked; they were about men. With the exception of just a few feminists like Joanna Russ, science fiction was pretty much male-dominated up to the I960s. Women who wrote in that field often used pen names. None of this bothered me. It was my tradition, and I worked in it happily. But I began coming up against certain discomforts. My first feminist text was The Left Hand of Darkness, which I started writing in I967. It was an early experiment in deconstructing gender. Everybody was asking, "What is it to be a man? What is it to be a woman?" It's a hard question, so in The Left Hand of Darkness I eliminated gender to find out what would be left. Science fiction is a wonderful opportunity to play this kind of game.ä Well anyways, there is a book called Shiva 3000 by Jan Lars Jensen that I read purely out of curiosity to see how a foreign writer, in this case I think heâs Canadian, depicted a futuristic India·once I was able to put my incredulity aside and get into the book it was quite an interesting mishmash, using a whole bunch of Hindu mythology and spinning yarn with it, none of it I thought was loyal to the original mythology though. I passed it around and got the same reaction from all my other friends, though they perceived nothing negative about Indians in it and it didnât annoy anyone in particular, nobody has a price on his head or anything, as far as I know. Indians are writing modern versions of Hindu mythology now for a modern audience, so I guess that would put aside any strange ideas that people might have about it. And now we have a favourite of UKLâs, Vandana Singh who has written sci fi with its primary setting in India. So yes, in my personal opinion itâs better to have your community left out in your favourite genre rather than having it misrepresented? Of course until the writers who actually have the experience of being a part of that community come along and change things. http://users.rcn.com/singhvan/publications.html Hereâs the link to Vandana Singhâs work. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? 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See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=OdlvHXzk8ECURPU6ZWrLTnWh6MH4A2+L6ZzHRLvZLhQ+alTDWdz9ofpNhEJl+jqLpjPZviXAYJkWsxuST8P4Mq/+XSgw08471V8TaQXB8KmB4zhhnXMtW8CX9SyGduA0; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n3.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 15:10:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 15:10:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 15:10:44 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65731 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2006 15:10:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2006 15:10:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2006 15:10:42 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1FHjG9-0005uU-K0 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:10:29 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060310151029.GI20027@ccil.org> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309201157.02b30900@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> <20060310075732.78917.qmail@web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060310075732.78917.qmail@web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:10:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit rhea scripsit: > Well anyways, there is a book called Shiva 3000 by Jan Lars Jensen > that I read purely out of curiosity to see how a foreign writer, in > this case I think heâs Canadian, depicted a futuristic India·once > I was able to put my incredulity aside and get into the book it > was quite an interesting mishmash, using a whole bunch of Hindu > mythology and spinning yarn with it, none of it I thought was loyal > to the original mythology though. I passed it around and got the same > reaction from all my other friends, though they perceived nothing > negative about Indians in it and it didnât annoy anyone in particular, > nobody has a price on his head or anything, as far as I know. I wonder if you have read Roger Zelazny's _Lord of Light_, which is not a futuristic India but a sort of revival of classical India in a fantastic/ futuristic setting. If you have, what do you think of it? -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org www.ap.org www.ccil.org/~cowan Big as a house, much bigger than a house, it looked to [Sam], a grey-clad moving hill. Fear and wonder, maybe, enlarged him in the hobbit's eyes, but the Mumak of Harad was indeed a beast of vast bulk, and the like of him does not walk now in Middle-earth; his kin that live still in latter days are but memories of his girth and his majesty. --"Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 14 07:21:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.55]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A005103F36 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:44:52 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=NTmSbRxdXicCIbCfQxPQoj2j8rHtDunCr9Mc7odNtgF043ojfrN//ozefm43fO1H+SYKXBtfPe6dI+Lqvyl1cN/VZ93pIirRRSDkSjeQhHO24z9taHue8qoqjybJ5tSd; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 15:35:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 15:35:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70454 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2006 15:35:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2006 15:35:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.62) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2006 15:35:39 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfl2r.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.212.91] helo=DB) by pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FHje5-00018H-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:35:14 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.20060310072548.00acfdf0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20060310151029.GI20027@ccil.org> References: <20060310075732.78917.qmail@web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060309201157.02b30900@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> <20060310075732.78917.qmail@web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:30:53 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 10:10 AM 3/10/2006 -0500, John Cowan wrote: >I wonder if you have read Roger Zelazny's _Lord of Light_, which is not >a futuristic India but a sort of revival of classical India in a fantastic/ >futuristic setting. If you have, what do you think of it? This book of Zelazny's is one of those that UKL had in mind when she wrote, in "From Elfland to Poughkeepsie," that he's an author who jerks back and forth between the old heroic Elfland strain and the ironic modern strain. She didn't like the mixture, but like it or not, the undercutting of heroism was Zelazny's intent. His characters are not the Hindu gods, and their folly consists of pretending that they are. I thought that if you can take it on its own terms, Lord of Light is an effective book, but I can understand if one could not take it that way. - David Bratman Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 14 07:21:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.36]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 72D13CB654 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:09:35 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=svfodeHtQmABfmhSfZMOdq6N3Nzzi9JUe9STUO4iU2pjmK9fu/RaF11FvNxzHmjl4xb2AmjH8tjS/GE5uClSV38jNE2z9aWzWcI3k5Oh4msTGNlRpgFEg8BXph0OaKS+; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 16:09:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 16:09:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: rhea_dnl@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82432 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2006 16:09:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2006 16:09:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web37415.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.87.68) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2006 16:09:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 51163 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2006 16:09:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20060310160927.51161.qmail@web37415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [61.17.165.121] by web37415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:09:27 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20060310151029.GI20027@ccil.org> X-Originating-IP: 209.191.87.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: rhea X-Yahoo-Profile: rhea_dnl Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:09:27 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain That's right, I'd really have to suspend disbelief reading a book like that though I'm not Hindu, since i've grown up with it around me and stuff, though I wonder how a hardcore hindu would take it, them writers using their religion to spin yarn like that, as these gods are still very much worshipped now. I myself can't picture Jesus and planets and spaceships all in the same story, though A Canticle for Leibowitz is one of my favourite sci-fi novels and has definite religious undertones to it. Though not in the same manner as these writers have done. John Cowan wrote: rhea scripsit: > Well anyways, there is a book called Shiva 3000 by Jan Lars Jensen > that I read purely out of curiosity to see how a foreign writer, in > this case I think heâs Canadian, depicted a futuristic India·once > I was able to put my incredulity aside and get into the book it > was quite an interesting mishmash, using a whole bunch of Hindu > mythology and spinning yarn with it, none of it I thought was loyal > to the original mythology though. I passed it around and got the same > reaction from all my other friends, though they perceived nothing > negative about Indians in it and it didnât annoy anyone in particular, > nobody has a price on his head or anything, as far as I know. I wonder if you have read Roger Zelazny's _Lord of Light_, which is not a futuristic India but a sort of revival of classical India in a fantastic/ futuristic setting. If you have, what do you think of it? -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org www.ap.org www.ccil.org/~cowan Big as a house, much bigger than a house, it looked to [Sam], a grey-clad moving hill. Fear and wonder, maybe, enlarged him in the hobbit's eyes, but the Mumak of Harad was indeed a beast of vast bulk, and the like of him does not walk now in Middle-earth; his kin that live still in latter days are but memories of his girth and his majesty. --"Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit" --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 14 07:21:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.226]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B82144473 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:36:42 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Iekbizh9iIdmn2ImxfeLj8/9IAnKGV42ux9CGUkUaGW+DjDRIToUnIS5gq0/XyuxnP8VbRae1f/mHqnwEkByQ6SoF9E5Sk/EDLw0wAZjF6YwG6/Sp0JXh41FauLFkVgA; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n6.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 16:36:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 16:36:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2006 16:36:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56011 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2006 16:36:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2006 16:36:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.68) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2006 16:36:39 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfl2r.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.212.91] helo=DB) by pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FHkbV-0004bb-00; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:36:38 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.20060310082953.00ad0100@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <24417785.1141227199891.JavaMail.root@vms089.mailsrvcs.net> X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:32:14 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Always Coming Home Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As the tape is no longer listed on Todd Barton's own website, though it used to be, I suspect the web page listed below is simply out of date. But one could inquire. - David Bratman At 09:33 AM 3/1/2006 -0600, Janice Dawley wrote: >>>and I would love to have access to the tape and music >>>that came with some versions. >> >>Now that - the tape of music and poetry - may well be out of >>print. The composer used to sell it, but evidently not any more. >>It can be found used, though. It's well worth hearing. The music >>is very effective, some of the poetry is read by UKL herself, and >>the whole adds to the all-encompassing feel of the text. >> >>David Bratman > >Well, it is still listed at the "Basement Full of Books" web site. Here's >the direct link: > >http://www.sff.net/bfob/files/Barton,_Todd.txt Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 14 07:23:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.44]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A9596CB30C for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:37:21 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=aJQ8K7JdiiqIroUcXvFQUIaPqy+jr1XL7s9f+pHY2DxS+z7skyj+M3k7P8VtfwXOrEEQevq/6++h03NZpSaIY+6nmmLtJXZWUJk1qSN6aQVAFykNx7JvlfDz+HuXYVF5; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2006 12:37:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2006 12:37:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21966 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2006 12:37:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2006 12:37:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (66.54.152.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2006 12:37:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 13244 invoked by uid 417); 11 Mar 2006 12:36:24 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (172.16.3.10) by shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2006 12:36:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 13240 invoked by uid 417); 11 Mar 2006 12:36:24 -0000 Received: from mambo-.softhome.net (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.2.15) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 11 Mar 2006 12:36:24 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 417) by softhome.net with local; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:36:24 -0700 References: <20060310075732.78917.qmail@web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060310075732.78917.qmail@web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 66.54.152.27 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: dsalo@softhome.net X-Yahoo-Profile: iiipitaka Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:36:24 -0700 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit rhea writes: > Hmm, after following that link, and the primary thought that seems to drive it, donât you think it is HOW your community is being represented rather being not represented at all that matters more? For example, I came across some old sci-fi magazines from the 1950 and though it might seem amusing now, it was clear that women were represented in a negative manner and were just figments of some male fantasy writer wild imagination earlier on, at least from what I saw in the these pulp sci fi mags that I had the good luck to come across, and when women started writing in SFF it certainly corrected these negative portrayals (like females being kidnapped by aliens for breeding purposes and cheesy stuff like that) and Ms. Le Guin and bunch of other writers took it upon themselves to fix these things·. While there weren't a lot of them, there were women writing throughout the period when pulps dominated the science fiction genre: Catherine Lucille Moore, Leigh Brackett, Margaret St. Clair, all of whom were highly regarded - perhaps more so by their contemporaries than by the modern generation. But while a sensitive eye might be able to pick out differences in style between the writing of female and male science fiction authors of this period (though I wouldn't bet on it), you'll find that the subject matter of the female and male authors is precisely the same: same virile male heroes facing down cold-blooded killer aliens on exotic planets to save a transient lady-love. It was the kind of formula that female as well as male authors worked within, and one where the female authors could have influentially pushed in a different direction if they'd cared to -- which apparently they didn't. This formula was certainly abandoned in the 1960s -- or even earlier, in the mid-1950s -- but that may have been as much due to weariness with the results and dissatisfaction with what could be done within its constraints as to any development of social conscience within the science fiction writing community, male or female. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 14 07:24:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.37]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 07779103FD9 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:03:16 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=j4jKzS3S8jiYuOvTKvM3JHaFwo3ypUdyx48JEpwwKHPPIGBZ3VGmHSMfj8dDlHgHvWHGLIjONNsHJ1HEpfMiIvzCNemAc4Kk1kEq8ccSsCidBIg56gATFWQc3yfkYTtf; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2006 18:03:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2006 18:03:15 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44894 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2006 18:03:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2006 18:03:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vms040pub.verizon.net) (206.46.252.40) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2006 18:03:12 -0000 Received: from vms068.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.1]) by vms040.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IVZ00LPF6504KH6@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:03:00 -0600 (CST) To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <6915154.1142100180663.JavaMail.root@vms068.mailsrvcs.net> X-Originating-IP: 206.46.252.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Janice Dawley X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:03:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dsalo@softhome.net wrote: >While there weren't a lot of them, there were women writing >throughout the period when pulps dominated the science fiction >genre: Catherine Lucille Moore, Leigh Brackett, Margaret St. >Clair, all of whom were highly regarded - perhaps more so by their >contemporaries than by the modern generation. But while a >sensitive eye might be able to pick out differences in style >between the writing of female and male science fiction authors of >this period (though I wouldn't bet on it), you'll find that the >subject matter of the female and male authors is precisely the >same: same virile male heroes facing down cold-blooded killer >aliens on exotic planets to save a transient lady-love. It was the >kind of formula that female as well as male authors worked within, >and one where the female authors could have influentially pushed >in a different direction if they'd cared to -- which apparently >they didn't. This is certainly true of a lot of what these authors wrote, but I disagree that C.L. Moore, for example, never ventured outside of the male heroic mode. In the 1930s, she published a series of stories about a woman named Jirel, ruler of a fictional European domain called Joiry. From the synopses I've read, she wears armor and spends a lot of time fighting evil hellspawn. Very reminiscent of Buffy the Vampire Slayer! It didn't come out until 1963, but Margaret St. Clair wrote a book called *Sign of the Labrys* that features a pagan priestess as a main character. St. Clair and her husband were very interested in witchcraft (in the Wiccan sense), and it came out in this novel. See this interesting web page for more info: http://www.chasclifton.com/columns/column17.html There were also numerous women writers of the '30s and '40s whose work may not be considered pulp sf, but is nevertheless speculative and/or fantastic. See this page on L. Timmel Duchamp's web site for an impressively long list of names: http://ltimmel.home.mindspring.com/chronology.html My real point is that the situation isn't quite as simple as your message made out. Market forces and peer pressure may have constrained MOST of what women authors wrote in the Golden Age, but it wasn't all. And strong female characters were not as universally frowned upon as people often think now. I'm not sure if that should make us more or less depressed about the situation of women in science fiction, but it seemed worth mentioning. -- Janice Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 14 07:24:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.56]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D46DCB58F for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:15:28 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=c1BedzqQ8p11E+JMENKFxZxM2DhyUDt+uGk68FOBUT8e/R0/crlwpNSrhMne3yyStgcVOv2z69/YGQ6VypdTlMeCxynJJNjNmgmt8xuMexX4orTYeaptK6rIgcAoHgLB; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2006 19:15:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2006 19:15:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12447 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2006 19:15:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2006 19:15:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (66.54.152.27) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2006 19:15:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 14037 invoked by uid 417); 11 Mar 2006 19:15:25 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (172.16.3.10) by shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2006 19:15:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 14033 invoked by uid 417); 11 Mar 2006 19:15:25 -0000 Received: from mambo-.softhome.net (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.2.15) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 11 Mar 2006 19:15:25 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 417) by softhome.net with local; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:15:25 -0700 References: <6915154.1142100180663.JavaMail.root@vms068.mailsrvcs.net> In-Reply-To: <6915154.1142100180663.JavaMail.root@vms068.mailsrvcs.net> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 66.54.152.27 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: dsalo@softhome.net X-Yahoo-Profile: iiipitaka Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:15:25 -0700 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Janice Dawley writes: > This is certainly true of a lot of what these authors wrote, but I disagree that C.L. Moore, for example, never ventured outside of the male heroic mode. In the 1930s, she published a series of stories about a woman named Jirel, ruler of a fictional European domain called Joiry. From the synopses I've read, she wears armor and spends a lot of time fighting evil hellspawn. Very reminiscent of Buffy the Vampire Slayer! The Jirel stories are well written, for the most part, but they are basically in the "heroic mode", except with a female protagonist instead of a male one. I certainly don't mean to say that none of these authors ever wrote outside of the pulp formula; but they never _rejected_ the pulp formula. Which is not surprising, as they were mostly interested in getting paid in what was initially a very tight market. At the same time as Moore was writing the Jirel stories (the early '30s), she was also writing the Northwest Smith stories, with an amoral male protagonist, and -- more often than not -- female villains. This makes assessing Moore's early writing from a social perspective, well, complicated. Does the portrayal of a "strong" (or at any rate, violent) female medieval aristocrat cancel out a half-dozen portrayals of women (or female aliens) as seductive vampires? I can't answer that question. > My real point is that the situation isn't quite as simple as your message made out. It is indeed very complicated. Although at a minimum we can say that Ursula K. Le Guin did not appear, like Athena bursting from the skull of Zeus, upon a field totally devoid of well-known and respected science fiction writers who were women. Indeed, Le Guin's earliest work is very much in the vein of these earlier writers. "Rocannon's World", with its halfhearted assent to pulp formulas, is rather like the kind of thing that Leigh Brackett was writing in the '50s and early '60s. And then Le Guin, decades later, circles back and gives us a funny but sad spoof on the Rocannon-type (or generally pulp-type) hero, with her portrayal of Dalzul in "Dancing to Ganam"! Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 14 07:24:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.36]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5FDB3103DCE for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 13:46:09 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=hV19ImFJTGbMilFcqN8uxltg1bIe0daHNoanZZhUPH0vhDSPMR9BtzBrsMSz/TT1T1leqCeXALgZU1qsNGRDrMFOrkH4m5tk7GMkNeExh11Dr2PX+F8eLWV8nB/MMnRf; Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2006 21:46:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2006 21:46:08 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: swamp_canary@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44041 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2006 21:46:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2006 21:46:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2006 21:46:02 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2006 21:45:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2006 21:45:58 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 67.171.247.134 From: "Virginia Ryan" X-Yahoo-Profile: kemtri98 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:45:58 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Tales From Earthsea Trailer Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A trailer (in Japanese) for Studio Ghibli's upcoming film is available at http://www.onlineghibli.com/. The film is reportedly based on _The Farthest Shore_ and _Tehanu_. From the trailer, it looks like Goro Miyuzaki has taken some liberties with the material. Not only is everybody white, but Ged is not scarred, and appears to be wearing some kind of silly samurai hat. And if the little girl in the trailer was Therru, then they've removed all of her scarring as well. However, the artwork looks beautiful, especially the landscapes. That's pretty much par for the course for Studio Ghibli, though. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually see the film. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? 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See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=q+95N80/TLDhrr4LoUBuhv+7bbXcF9wmyq/kK4fruAr2XyL049zGmM1RHlB+r/hKTgwRFkz1yOuQxNkyiyCXfQ6K6qhPzFVdJDYSTggwFykbv6F4IPTR/FrHeLnoEHeD; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 05:43:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 05:43:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: bschrack1@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30448 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2006 05:43:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2006 05:43:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (204.127.200.82) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2006 05:43:04 -0000 Received: from [68.55.3.219] (c-68-55-3-219.hsd1.md.comcast.net[68.55.3.219]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2006031205165701200c79eme>; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:16:57 +0000 Message-ID: <4413AEB7.1070907@comcast.net> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <6915154.1142100180663.JavaMail.root@vms068.mailsrvcs.net> In-Reply-To: <6915154.1142100180663.JavaMail.root@vms068.mailsrvcs.net> X-Originating-IP: 204.127.200.82 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bonnie Schrack X-Yahoo-Profile: bonnieschrack Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:16:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Two thoughts, one of race the other of gender . . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Janice Dawley wrote: > > It didn't come out until 1963, but Margaret St. Clair wrote a book > called *Sign of the Labrys* that features a pagan priestess as a main > character. St. Clair and her husband were very interested in > witchcraft (in the Wiccan sense), and it came out in this novel. See > this interesting web page for more info: > > http://www.chasclifton.com/columns/column17.html :-) Yes, as a matter of fact, Chas has a new book that will be coming out, Her Hidden Children, that I helped the editors with, which includes the story of the St. Clairs, as told in that article you've linked to. For those interested in the history of American Wicca, it will be worth a read, I think. (I'm not of that persuasion myself -- more of an Animist, I guess.) Fun to see this come up on this list. There is another excellent list I subscribed to for a while, called NatRel, the Nature Religion Scholars list, which Chas moderates -- I recommend it, though it's more academic in focus than this one. Bonnie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 14 07:25:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.232]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D60EFCA6F8 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:12:47 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=ZgQEE4Q9IBhQCab9dEff+WWWyVvYIbhikUnQGM9d/pemsaLcQTVVwor9YLomqrdIdkN2b1ZoVlOQPvM4M9U2VEkS5Gp2Dat7h7lhgxvl+phgLx/K71sH4PHFrX01dFXE; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n9.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 07:12:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 07:12:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 07:12:47 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Riz@cambridgedocs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83875 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2006 07:12:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2006 07:12:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Mx1.myOutlookonline.com) (69.25.74.59) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2006 07:12:45 -0000 Received: from MAIL007.mail.lan ([10.109.209.107]) by Mx1.myOutlookonline.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 02:12:42 -0500 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [the-ekumen] Tales From Earthsea Trailer Thread-Index: AcZFVTWmqgKrlRZqQceDlenM3uqtnQATLfZA To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2006 07:12:42.0877 (UTC) FILETIME=[5AE862D0:01C645A4] X-Originating-IP: 69.25.74.59 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Riz Virk" X-Yahoo-Profile: rizwanv Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 02:12:55 -0500 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Tales From Earthsea Trailer Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Interesting trailer ... Thanks for posting the link! Like you said, it's probably best to withold judgment until seeing the movie; but some things jump right out - Farthest Shore for example had a lot of sea-faring ... Didn't see any in the trailer. The tone of the trailer though sounds a lot closer to Earthsea than the trailers to the sci fi series, which is a step in the right direction! Once again, the main characters look "white"! Perhaps it's time to give up hope that *any* moviemaker is going to stay true to the racial part of Earthsea (which is really disappointing to me personally!) ... Once, when I was still na•ve and didn't understand how the book&movie business worked, I wrote a partial screenplay based on A wizard of earthsea - posted on leguin's world fan site at: http://hem.passagen.se/peson42/lgw/inspired.html, and I couldn't wait to see the "brown" wizards on screen, being brown myself... When the sci fi channel signed on, I was pretty optimistic that they would stay true to this aspect of the books ... Ha! Oh well - I guess we're just going to have to live with disappointment, unless we can come up with the $$$ to buy rights from UKL to redo a movie of the first book the right way! Anyone have a few extra million bucks lying around ...? -Riz --------------------------------------- Rizwan Virk CTO CambridgeDocs www.cambridgedocs.com 617-905-3518 riz@cambridgedocs.com personal: riz@alum.mit.edu -----Original Message----- From: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Virginia Ryan Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 2:46 PM To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Tales From Earthsea Trailer A trailer (in Japanese) for Studio Ghibli's upcoming film is available at http://www.onlineghibli.com/. The film is reportedly based on _The Farthest Shore_ and _Tehanu_. From the trailer, it looks like Goro Miyuzaki has taken some liberties with the material. Not only is everybody white, but Ged is not scarred, and appears to be wearing some kind of silly samurai hat. And if the little girl in the trailer was Therru, then they've removed all of her scarring as well. However, the artwork looks beautiful, especially the landscapes. That's pretty much par for the course for Studio Ghibli, though. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually see the film. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 14 07:25:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.55]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EFD62443E3 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:29:57 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=dBUXfa4tWmpOoG1Ii91rapxkKYR9hKNcsp/O9ut2U8VokiRqA3A1O0arHw5w6D0EcdCNCnWdHQ1Ti7s/XGv/N+hc/OnZiJa4HDRbSWzHFb5BNA15c73a/k9kbEv6x+hT; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 13:29:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 13:29:57 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48868 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2006 13:29:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2006 13:29:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (66.54.152.27) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2006 13:29:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 10144 invoked by uid 417); 12 Mar 2006 13:29:07 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (172.16.3.10) by shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2006 13:29:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 10141 invoked by uid 417); 12 Mar 2006 13:29:07 -0000 Received: from mambo-.softhome.net (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.2.15) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2006 13:29:07 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 417) by softhome.net with local; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:29:07 -0700 References: In-Reply-To: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 66.54.152.27 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: dsalo@softhome.net X-Yahoo-Profile: iiipitaka Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:29:07 -0700 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Tales From Earthsea Trailer Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Virginia Ryan writes: > And if the little girl in the > trailer was Therru, then they've removed all of her scarring as well. If you look closely, you'll see her face is actually half white, half pink -- which is as close as you're going to get, I'm afraid. The Ghibli style of drawing doesn't lend itself to subtlety; if they'd tried to draw scarring they would probably have ended up drawing Therru's face as a bulging mass of warts and wrinkles. And in the "language" of anime, disfiguring scars are reserved for villains! Sad but (mostly) true. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 14 07:25:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n4a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n4a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.224]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D227644275 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:55:30 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=t5W3oH53J+bwLE757DGvlHAUqtBuY4HshiKHPnHdxapt3x1PcKyS5nSeNtJlxdY0hG+B4dKUCwDVnyOujvddqkAnLNBIkTP3OxQLfXjNM9gt5quYHu2HWW1N4sEvaL+m; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n4.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 13:55:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 13:55:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.61] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 13:55:27 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dy@raitax.pair.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40077 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2006 13:55:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2006 13:55:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO raitax.pair.com) (209.68.2.16) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2006 13:55:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 81516 invoked by uid 3168); 12 Mar 2006 13:55:00 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060312135500.GA81408@entity.id.au> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309201157.02b30900@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> <20060310075732.78917.qmail@web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060310151029.GI20027@ccil.org> <20060311135135.GA45268@danny.id.au> In-Reply-To: <20060311135135.GA45268@danny.id.au> X-Originating-IP: 209.68.2.16 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4:0 From: Danny Yee X-Yahoo-Profile: dannyreviews Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:55:00 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: OT - Hindu mythology Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Cowan wrote: > I wonder if you have read Roger Zelazny's _Lord of Light_, which is not > a futuristic India but a sort of revival of classical India in a fantastic/ > futuristic setting. If you have, what do you think of it? I really liked it. My review at http://dannyreviews.com/h/Lord_Light.html explains why. I can see that it might not be UKL's cup of tea, and it has its flaws, but it's Zelazny's best book by far in my opinion. Another great book on Hindu mythology is Roberto Calasso's _Ka_, though that's a (not entirely straightforward) reworking of the stories. See http://dannyreviews.com/h/Ka.html Danny. ---------------------------------------------------------- http://dannyreviews.com/ - over eight hundred book reviews http://danny.oz.au/ - civil liberties, travel tales, blog ---------------------------------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 14 07:25:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.37]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E18694435D for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:05:43 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=NZn62nfF1OykH90UJSPEVRYdwbqzn2lXQRF5TNnJWY8O9zePvoUQ6+hZ2UqhPMBwu4MIEOPL4pV3zDBRplLWf3IJMBsHzc4todgSs92XMqjCTzdoMYZnc3hXCgI9mIMR; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 16:05:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 16:05:43 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45562 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2006 16:05:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2006 16:05:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2006 16:05:20 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1FIT4I-00052q-Di for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:05:18 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060312160518.GW20027@ccil.org> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309201157.02b30900@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> <20060310075732.78917.qmail@web37408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060310151029.GI20027@ccil.org> <20060311135135.GA45268@danny.id.au> <20060312135500.GA81408@entity.id.au> In-Reply-To: <20060312135500.GA81408@entity.id.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:05:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: OT - Hindu mythology Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Danny Yee scripsit: > I really liked it. My review at http://dannyreviews.com/h/Lord_Light.html ... every word of which I agree with ... > explains why. I can see that it might not be UKL's cup of tea, Do you have any reason to think so? She has praised Zelazny's work, notably "Render the Shaper". > Another great book on Hindu mythology is Roberto Calasso's _Ka_, though > that's a (not entirely straightforward) reworking of the stories. > See http://dannyreviews.com/h/Ka.html Sounds absolutely fascinating. -- Samuel Johnson on playing the violin: John Cowan "Difficult do you call it, Sir? cowan@ccil.org I wish it were impossible." http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 14 07:25:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n6a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n6a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.40]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AB3E0CB36D for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:58:32 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=i/CZtMP/ONkCAymeWgXy2BxLugz4GfLTgETwi4afOLrB+Gz4/IjwGKbQZpLhpkkfJBbOBuvnmt79CoNRw6h1g4L2QbLbdiocdPBNPiH3iKpSU00FPj4KxgN6fn9SO26u; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 16:58:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2006 16:58:32 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51767 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2006 16:58:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2006 16:58:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.72) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2006 16:58:30 -0000 Received: from elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.40]) by pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FITtl-0001yF-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:58:29 -0500 Message-ID: <23611127.1142182709009.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.72 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:58:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: OT - Hindu mythology Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Cowan writes: >Danny Yee scripsit: > >> explains why. I can see that it might not be UKL's cup of tea, > >Do you have any reason to think so? She has praised Zelazny's work, >notably "Render the Shaper". She was critical of Zelazny in "From Elfland to Poughkeepsie," praising his work as "skillful and highly imaginative" but finding herself "los[ing] confidence" in it because of the alternation between heroic (Elfland) and colloquial (Poughkeepsie) diction. "Lord of Light" is one of the works most conspicuously embodying that alternation. Unlike some later writers, Zelazny knew how to maintain tone: in this book he had a moral and plot point to make by not doing it. But UKL could fairly ask why he didn't want to. - David Bratman Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 14 07:27:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n2a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n2a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.222]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 48673444DF for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:20:26 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=L2ejBb/kCj3Oa1E+e2xKZN2Owr/fzk0JMYUkk7ZuG0Q7srQllN4c1R/0DULQCzjEpzWiOoxyKnS9vXUNIV/C5KFisSG6kAP1XFiZGaJ+x5Y199d0tESwsRZSlsRPPzj/; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2006 19:20:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2006 19:20:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2006 19:20:25 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: char@userfriendlytech.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46613 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2006 19:20:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2006 19:20:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server304.com) (216.35.196.41) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2006 19:20:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 22019 invoked by uid 502); 13 Mar 2006 19:20:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.102?) (char@24.19.146.177) by ns1.server304.com with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) SMTP; 13 Mar 2006 19:20:17 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <1142277734.29633.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.1 X-Originating-IP: 216.35.196.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Charlene Osman X-Yahoo-Profile: osmanchar Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:22:14 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Tales From Earthsea Trailer Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This does bother me. One of the main themes in Tehanu is how so many people on Gont seemed to believe that people with disfiguring scars were villains by default. I think LeGuin was challenging that assumption where it may exist in our own culture. As it apparently does in anime. Doesn't anyone making movies have the guts to break the mold just once? I thought Studio Ghibli might, if anyone did. I guess this is why I read books so much more than watching movies. There is more freedom and truth in the books; the heroines are not all 20 and beautiful, and the heroes are not all macho and handsome. --Charlene On Sun, 2006-03-12 at 06:29 -0700, dsalo@softhome.net wrote: > Virginia Ryan writes: > > > And if the little girl in the > > trailer was Therru, then they've removed all of her scarring as > well. > > If you look closely, you'll see her face is actually half white, > half pink > -- which is as close as you're going to get, I'm afraid. The Ghibli > style of > drawing doesn't lend itself to subtlety; if they'd tried to draw > scarring > they would probably have ended up drawing Therru's face as a bulging > mass of > warts and wrinkles. And in the "language" of anime, disfiguring scars > are > reserved for villains! Sad but (mostly) true. > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Science fiction and > fantasy > Literary agent fiction > Guin > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 1. Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. > > 2. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > 3. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 20 22:31:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.42]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id ABB80CB5D0 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:18:31 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=C56A+b+ECtngqfTdJ3Zq1TtSovLgrgfFScaR2V5sn23B+96MpuQ2znNFzKCsBHZZZcSFdV9jwZverByCrHuMlhuVCwPd6RbwwTmLF3hlTJqLePwk9oeyxS0EKV9C7Ezr; Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2006 20:18:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2006 20:18:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: janeluther@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61997 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2006 20:18:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2006 20:18:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO zproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.162.204) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2006 20:18:29 -0000 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 9so209338nzo for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:18:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.247.27 with SMTP id u27mr1229332nzh; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:18:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.118.11 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:18:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.233.162.204 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Jane Hyde" X-Yahoo-Profile: jane3ncri Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:18:28 -0800 Subject: [the-ekumen] ACH original set available! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm visiting Portland and yesterday discovered an unwrapped original set of ACH, book and tape, at a great bookstore here, The Great Northwest Book Company. It's $15 and should be still there today. I don't need a set, but someone on the list might. You can search it on abebooks or alibris or contact the store directly (in which case the bookseller gets the whole profit). I'd include the store's phone number but can't find a phone book where I'm staying. The store is also on the web. Go for it. Jane Sing your song, dance your dance, tell your tale. (Thanks to Frank McCourt) Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 20 22:29:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n3a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n3a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.223]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EDD23CB5E2 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 00:11:16 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=AYJJ/BgIbLte4znXkIqFPi96Rudm+pPBHopg9C2rPgdXgXz5hpJroJahF6Y7B+vtlWPdCYlc0vTr0MMufUYo1ofb93dkRUXE098Gke9lVVl+5hh4bV/3ctKeaAqwFfEv; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n3.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 08:11:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 08:11:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.94] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 08:11:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9023 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2006 08:11:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2006 08:11:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2006 08:11:11 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 08:10:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 08:10:11 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:10:10 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: ACH original set available! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Jane Hyde" wrote: > > I'm visiting Portland and yesterday discovered an unwrapped original > set of ACH, book and tape, at a great bookstore here, The Great > Northwest Book Company. It's $15 and should be still there today. If you buy the still available Edition of always coming home that was mentioned in this thread (caliornia something or other press) there is an adress in the front where you can get a CD of the music. Don't have the book with me otherwise I would post it here. So book and music are still there to enjoy. paula. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Mar 18 11:30:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.54]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4FA741040AE for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:11:39 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=nDYwnifeBE3/FzwDR0v/yPJ75d9fZVuoPdMq0sGUveEUnm9V5EzewoNjQht7N+9tXokk510iACyDtr4OEFEuswc+RFSDUk8K1MgIeA/WNejDOB0MkpATmtcOeqvMfz4o; Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 12:11:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 12:11:38 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44139 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2006 12:11:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2006 12:11:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fmmailgate05.web.de) (217.72.192.243) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2006 12:11:36 -0000 Received: by fmmailgate05.web.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/webde Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id k2GCBY77014454 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:11:34 +0100 Received: from [172.178.180.77] (helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp05.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (WEB.DE 4.106 #94) id 1FJrKC-0005NO-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:11:33 +0100 Message-Id: <1559BD05-E10F-4EDD-844C-E6B765350183@web.de> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Originating-IP: 217.72.192.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Diane Severson X-Yahoo-Profile: divadiane1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:07:42 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] RE: The Other Wind Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message: 2 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:17:04 -0000 From: "Robins- one of" Subject: Re: The Other Wind WAS Re: namas-tae Diane et al ** spoilers ahead for The Other Wind** Hello Hannah - I think the unanswered questions she instills throughout the course of the Other Wind demand another sequel! Either that or she deliberately wants her readers to come to their own conclusions. If the latter is the case, I'd really like it if the wizards of Earthsea returned to the Earth Magic, which until the "present" was the domain of women and considered by the wizards to be evil (or at least scary). "Women's" magic would then become the people's magic and seems to me to be deeper, more mysterious and somehow healthier. As for the magic of the true name, I guess it will disappear. It's too bad, I quite liked that idea, but if it means that everyone who has/ had one is destined for the dry land, which seems horrific to me, then I guess I'm glad it's been stripped of its power. The true name did have some other power, but if I remember correctly its main purpose was to give people "everlasting" life. The afterlife question is also quite pertinent. Do the people of Earthsea now get reincarnated (or whatever), like the Kargish? If they do get reincarnated, I think the question about all the millions (I suppose) of souls which were trapped in the Dry Land is definitely, "Do they get reincarnated all at once?" Or will there be a sort of limbo until it's your turn? Maybe there will be a population increase among humans and animals alike? I think it's interesting that UKL chose to deglorify the idea of the Dry Land e.g. Everlasting life for the soul, and seemed to be promoting (or at least evening up the score) for reincarnation. I can't remember if Taoism includes reincarnation. My thinking is yes - does anyone know for sure? It would make sense if it were. I think that through the dismantling of the Dry Land, the dragons were released to live in peace in their land and we won't be hearing from them any longer in Earthsea. I agree about the Kargish Princess and King Lebannen. It was a well- needed light-hearted bit to the story. Diane Original message----------------------------- yes the confusion is - well what about magic in the new Earthsea? are we returning to the Earth Magic once seen as so evil? do we lose the magic of the true name? do the Earthsea people now need to embrace drab normality? and the other I have written about before - well what exactly has happened aboud death now? where are the dragons? reincarnation seems to cause some practical problems with a sudden release of centuries/millenia of souls is there a problem with getting them all reborn? and where did the souls for humans come from if not from other humans - big re-balancing going on but perhaps the numbers of animal sould make such things not material - but the mystery loss leaves me mourning, I liked the dignity of the dry land really liked the whole thing with the red princess and the embarassed king though blue skies Hannah Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Mar 18 11:31:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.41]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A637104028 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:00:47 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=npzlFGQzhFqUg/RfxH0V+++X6hlhl0hvaL8jVFzGKUEqwj6JXWWwZS4C3L+bKL+NCOTnRY6dvfqRkExuZxs2ICGVLdgiAGE2ABJdW5GXT4xH3+var22W6O30i37b94f4; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 14:00:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.61] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 14:00:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8052 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2006 14:00:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2006 14:00:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (66.54.152.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2006 14:00:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 31687 invoked by uid 417); 16 Mar 2006 13:59:08 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (172.16.3.10) by shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2006 13:59:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 31682 invoked by uid 417); 16 Mar 2006 13:59:08 -0000 Received: from mambo-.softhome.net (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.2.15) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2006 13:59:08 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 417) by softhome.net with local; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:59:08 -0700 References: <1559BD05-E10F-4EDD-844C-E6B765350183@web.de> In-Reply-To: <1559BD05-E10F-4EDD-844C-E6B765350183@web.de> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 66.54.152.27 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: dsalo@softhome.net X-Yahoo-Profile: iiipitaka Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:59:08 -0700 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: The Other Wind Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Diane Severson writes: > ** spoilers ahead for The Other Wind** > I think it's interesting that UKL chose to deglorify the idea of the > Dry Land e.g. Everlasting life for the soul I'm not sure what you mean by "deglorify". For me, the Dry Land has always seemed like one of the most gloomy of afterlives -- an eternally dark desert where shades wait without purpose or meaning to their existence. Sort of like a train station. :) Of course, one might argue that the Dry Land isn't where *people* go -- it's only where their names go, and a certain amount of data about them, that can be called up (e.g. by Summoners) from time to time, in the form of shadows or images. A sort of vast filing system for wizards. The people themselves, the fullness of their lives, are less easy to grasp. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Mar 18 11:32:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.35]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BB9A3CB641 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 07:02:15 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=JP+d6d6WRgdC94jhrvuV9N+jphC35lBDUr3IpsKv4T/yh5f7rQtlk8PbAwUPzT0bpWsde5vhkV+/gZ1rKs6rquyuNgSHf2L7tf3+10nlOMse+Y/m+dHUnWv8gS8PCAeD; Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 15:02:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 15:02:15 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90314 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2006 15:02:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2006 15:02:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2006 15:02:14 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 15:01:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 15:01:28 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1559BD05-E10F-4EDD-844C-E6B765350183@web.de> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.37 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:01:28 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: The Other Wind Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > for the magic of the true name, I guess it will disappear. It's too > bad, I quite liked that idea, but if it means that everyone who has/ > had one is destined for the dry land, which seems horrific to me, > then I guess I'm glad it's been stripped of its power. The true name > did have some other power, but if I remember correctly its main > purpose was to give people "everlasting" life. No! I don't remember what the exact quote was but but it says something like this: humans can still learn and use the true language/names because it is something that they have aquired as a tool through working for it. just becaus the balance of the world is made right, does not mean that the true names have lost their power. The language was not bound to the dry land but to the dragons. Basically its like learning a foreign language. IF you steal someones garden and learn to garden the plants there, you don't forget how to garden/ or lose the ability to as soon as you give the garden back. You can still use the aquired skills on your on plot of land. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Mar 18 11:35:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.41]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 33734CB63A for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:12:43 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=fpDUPpY05gLsm+9YmsrOXBSsuxhn7mIL5ynTPedTOlmmHkwOSy32/73XOFZkXXU8yJT2uJsRQPw3E0nfiC7Vz0dEvgkK4WxVK+5hlJZ5pXDs4egjwx5/clrtMiGl6jhL; Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 18:12:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2006 18:12:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72182 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2006 18:12:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2006 18:12:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2006 18:12:36 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1FJwt7-0005uF-3Q for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:07:53 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060316180752.GF18558@ccil.org> References: <1559BD05-E10F-4EDD-844C-E6B765350183@web.de> In-Reply-To: <1559BD05-E10F-4EDD-844C-E6B765350183@web.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:07:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] RE: The Other Wind Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Diane Severson scripsit: > ** spoilers ahead for The Other Wind** > I'd really like it if the wizards of Earthsea > returned to the Earth Magic, which until the "present" was the domain > of women and considered by the wizards to be evil (or at least > scary). "Women's" magic would then become the people's magic and > seems to me to be deeper, more mysterious and somehow healthier. As > for the magic of the true name, I guess it will disappear. Most unlikely, as jokerinchen says. On the contrary, I expect a renaissance of magic on Earthsea, as the four separate traditions (Roke, Paln, Kargad, and witchcraft) begin to interpenetrate and learn from each other. I can't see the College on Roke (now truly collegial now that they no longer have an Archmage) dropping everything they know and starting to practice like Aunty Moss, but they will, now that their socks have been knocked off at least temporarily, be able to pick up whatever exists in her practice that seems useful. > The afterlife question is also quite pertinent. Do the people of > Earthsea now get reincarnated (or whatever), like the Kargish? If > they do get reincarnated, I think the question about all the millions > (I suppose) of souls which were trapped in the Dry Land is > definitely, "Do they get reincarnated all at once?" Or will there be > a sort of limbo until it's your turn? Maybe there will be a > population increase among humans and animals alike? Kargs believe in direct reincarnation, but Ged's speech to Cob in TFS (which prefigures the whole concept of TOW) tells a slightly different tale, and this while the wall of stones is fully operative: "My name is no use to you," Ged said. "You have no power over me at all. I am a living man; my body lies on the beach of Selidor, under the sun, on the turning earth. And when that body dies, I will be here: but only in name, in name alone, in shadow. Do you not understand? Did you never understand, you who called up so many shadows from the dead, who summoned all the hosts of the perished, even my lord Erreth-Akbe, wisest of us all? Did you not understand that he, even he, is but a shadow and a name? His death did not diminish life. Nor did it diminish him. He is there -- there, not here! Here is nothing, dust and shadows. There, he is the earth and sunlight, the leaves of trees, the eagle's flight. He is alive. And all who ever died, live; they are reborn and have no end, nor will there ever be an end. [...]" > I think it's interesting that UKL chose to deglorify the idea of the > Dry Land e.g. Everlasting life for the soul, and seemed to be > promoting (or at least evening up the score) for reincarnation. More like everlasting death. Again, see Ged's speech. > I think that through the dismantling of the Dry Land, the dragons > were released to live in peace in their land and we won't be hearing > from them any longer in Earthsea. Oh, I expect the ones with a personal interest will still be around: Irian, Tehanu, Kalessin. -- The experiences of the past show John Cowan that there has always been a discrepancy cowan@ccil.org between plans and performance. http://www.ap.org --Emperor Hirohito, August 1945 http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Mar 19 08:57:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n31a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n31a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [209.73.160.90]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D5A210410D for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:56:09 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Db2eKABABrNsOEI/005ULRF77KfUuKBNEDUHvv7rrPjEuuhmmw+RU5bhoqhLGvaMmYUXk4W25iOR2YyTySIfb4k/eX0jGDDuCzvH5PzfpszHI2X1I1LMY2MmXW3D6JMN; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2006 23:56:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2006 23:56:09 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57661 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2006 23:56:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2006 23:56:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2006 23:56:07 -0000 Received: from du-040-0050.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.50] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1FKlHC-0004hl-IH for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:56:07 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c64ae7$861c9a00$32749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: <1559BD05-E10F-4EDD-844C-E6B765350183@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.141 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:56:06 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: The Other Wind Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Am I the only one who found dignity and peace in the dry land? It was something more than gloomy. It seemed to describe the state of being dead well for me, loss of emotion, 'off the wheel' but retaining identity. So far as the old magic is concerned, I had a very divided mind when I read the stories in Tales from Earthsea where UKL revisits the whole idea of earth magic, they were beautiful and inspiring stories but I didn't want to let go of the image in Wizard of Earthsea when Ged is at the Court of the Terannon, which has always spoken powerfully to me. Some extracts: "'Do you see it?' Serret asked. As Ged looked round the room his wizard's eye cought one stone of those that made up the floor. It was rough and dank as the rest, a heavy unshapen paving stone: yet he felt the power of it as though it spoke to him aloud. And his breath caught in his throat, and a sickness came over him for a moment. This was the foudingstone of the tower. This was the central place, and it was cold, bitter cold; nothing could ever warm the little roon. This was a very ancient thing: an old and terrible spirit was prisoned in that block of stone." .... " 'Do you fear the stone?' she asked as if unbelieving; and he answered, 'Yes.' In the deadly cold and silence of the room encircled by wall after wall of spellwork and of stone, in the light of the one candle she held, Serret glanced at him again with gleaming eyes. 'Sparrowhawk,' she said, 'you are not afraid'. 'But I will not speak with that spirit,' Ged replied, and looking full at her he spoke with great boldness: 'My lady, that spirit is sealed in a stone, and the stone is locked by binding-spell and blinding-spell and charm of lock and ward and triple fortress-walls in a barren land not because it is precious, but because it can work great evil.' " .... Serret says " 'Only shadow can fight shadow, only darkness can defeat the dark.' " and a little later " Ged's eyes cleared, and his mind. He looked down at Serret. 'It is light that defeats the dark,' he said stammering, - 'light.' " Of course it is a great mystery that good and evil can coexist and balance each other, and this is of course a central theme to the original Earthsea books, with the uniting of Ged and his shadow being part of it. And I can see some shadow of beauty in the terrible Nameless ones that Arha serves, but I still have difficulty with saying we should now turn and embrace these things. UKL has said that she maintains the right to change her mind and to be inconsistent. But I find it hard to give her that right sometimes! particularly when it interferes with the appreciation of the beautiful books that spoke so strongly to me in my youth. Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:59 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: The Other Wind > Diane Severson writes: > >> ** spoilers ahead for The Other Wind** > >> I think it's interesting that UKL chose to deglorify the idea of the >> Dry Land e.g. Everlasting life for the soul > > I'm not sure what you mean by "deglorify". For me, the Dry Land has > always > seemed like one of the most gloomy of afterlives -- an eternally dark > desert > where shades wait without purpose or meaning to their existence. Sort of > like a train station. :) > > Of course, one might argue that the Dry Land isn't where *people* go -- > it's > only where their names go, and a certain amount of data about them, that > can > be called up (e.g. by Summoners) from time to time, in the form of shadows > or images. A sort of vast filing system for wizards. The people > themselves, the fullness of their lives, are less easy to grasp. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Mar 19 08:57:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.56]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D58CC104193 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 04:57:03 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=J2hdi0G/L/FFiUPXSyPYNbP0p6aHVyqapSHdhY70Xsmh/ZMCMDxhlhPDfcA/24UNaii5NtM+3talx9xHOONkmadEpVMCLZxRYg4KWlZ6iUlAHQJUs+2dApDnTgOADmob; Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 12:57:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 12:57:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13290 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 12:57:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 12:57:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.224) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 12:57:00 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n4.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 12:56:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 12:56:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 12:56:28 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000801c64ae7$861c9a00$32749ed9@robins6dd110df> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.224 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:56:26 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: The Other Wind Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I always found the dry land was one of the scariest places. And just because it doesn't exist anymore, doesn't mean that earthsea will turn towards the dark powers, even the women like aunty moss ... don't use the dark powers, the use the same magic as the college on roke. I think. These are two different aspects of the earthsea books. Paula. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 20 22:25:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n6a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n6a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.40]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CD50F44499 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:41:58 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=LD/emYCIBlaQLIRbKjsN+poRncvUo5JSDctPP0HdgcbfTprNDa8jeoUsQidwE4DmtUR4qgwCAXAI8SKJvkGWjRRSQQqrUz8eh/xJgjfAl7MecZUU+yySGIDPRa980U0w; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 20:41:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.61] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 20:41:58 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: askitsu@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96680 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 20:41:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 20:41:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.221) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 20:41:54 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 20:41:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 20:41:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 20:41:53 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.221 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 216.196.177.243 From: "Auriel" X-Yahoo-Profile: askitsu Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:41:52 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] [ tabla rasa ] Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i find myself as a unwilling blank slate for others to project their personal and communal daemons upon me no matter what course i take there are those that counsel, be content with your own understanding of self and ignore those others, each to their own savor and seasoning persons with such suggestions must be born of independent means since in the world i live one's very livelihood is often dependent on presentation as each course is laid in turn whether or not i attempt to assert my true identity or not, i will be attacked or worse, with insult to injure have i presented the incorrect article of flatware or misspoken out of turn at the least who cares if the substance of the fare or conversation is not fit for the human palette so long as the forms are kept in obeisance so long as my homicidal mania is superficially held in check they will project upon me the semblance of a saint as i deport myself accordingly it seems that only by assertion with overwhelming force can one achieve a temporary, pyrrhic victory over the collective will of others as they assert their images of who you, that is i must be if that victory of true self can be sustained into communal myth then a secondary win can possibly be gained albeit one often as not from beyond the grave eventually i believe those that set the table without aword of thier own will have the last word, in fact on where every one will sit and who is to be served first and last it has therefore been my long standing custom to be on the best terms first with those in the kitchen and below floors i have often wondered if being a metamorph (2 ) and a person of colour gives me a natural affinity at achieving this so i may well be a relative impostor at table through no will of my own but loved for true always by the help throughout all the ages i have walked this world Auriel Postscript There are those who may view this as a general response to some of the comments directed at my last post. I am not serving diversity clinicand this point having been made made allow me to underscore. A person of colour in this society doesn't not have the freedom to remain ignorant by choice of the means and ways the dominant culture. I have to know the way of the Whites if I am to provide bread for my table and my pursuit of excellence is just as dependent on my assimilation of White culture as it is on my actual job related skill within this alleged Meritocracy. To be White in this world means you don't have to know about anyone but yourself and your own people unless you 'feel' like it. I can not speak further as this is not some abstract theory but a painful daily reality for millions of people and these few comments are the limits of my restraint. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 20 22:26:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.233]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 59C604468F for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 01:32:02 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=axcWBzfdPd3b7K+FxVjxnfxUJf/Su1erlFNOOusYWG9v3b5jmCEwlBV2CMZvCab1p5quMsj1EA9AkwMyv0/sKLwLOkX7wC8hIUYLcLyK3dqxLvrQ5IZCQdZS5N9O09F2; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n10.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2006 09:32:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2006 09:32:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2006 09:32:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: askitsu@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5517 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2006 09:31:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2006 09:31:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.175) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2006 09:31:58 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.163.187.122] by n8.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2006 09:27:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 20:51:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 20:51:46 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000801c64ae7$861c9a00$32749ed9@robins6dd110df> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.163.187.175 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 216.196.177.243 From: "Auriel" X-Yahoo-Profile: askitsu Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:51:44 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: The Other Wind Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No you are not alone in that vision. I spent two weeks wandering by foot within the Arizona high deserts with sands and wind tearing at me on occasion just after Yuletide and then another week after that scrabbling, sometimes painfully around the Superstition Mountains as the darkness closed in because I couldn't let go, couldn't make myself leave. There is something of these desolate places that calls to a very deep place within my soul. I have faced the terror, awe, mystery and final acceptance that Ged found in the end when uttering that single name. ~ak --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Robins- one of" wrote: > > Am I the only one who found dignity and peace in the dry land? It was > something more than gloomy. It seemed to describe the state of being dead > well for me, loss of emotion, 'off the wheel' but retaining identity. > > So far as the old magic is concerned, I had a very divided mind when I read > the stories in Tales from Earthsea where UKL revisits the whole idea of > earth magic, they were beautiful and inspiring stories but I didn't want to > let go of the image in Wizard of Earthsea when Ged is at the Court of the > Terannon, which has always spoken powerfully to me. Some extracts: > > "'Do you see it?' Serret asked. > As Ged looked round the room his wizard's eye cought one stone of those that > made up the floor. It was rough and dank as the rest, a heavy unshapen > paving stone: yet he felt the power of it as though it spoke to him aloud. > And his breath caught in his throat, and a sickness came over him for a > moment. This was the foudingstone of the tower. This was the central place, > and it was cold, bitter cold; nothing could ever warm the little roon. This > was a very ancient thing: an old and terrible spirit was prisoned in that > block of stone." > > .... > > " 'Do you fear the stone?' she asked as if unbelieving; and he answered, > 'Yes.' > In the deadly cold and silence of the room encircled by wall after wall of > spellwork and of stone, in the light of the one candle she held, Serret > glanced at him again with gleaming eyes. 'Sparrowhawk,' she said, 'you are > not afraid'. > 'But I will not speak with that spirit,' Ged replied, and looking full at > her he spoke with great boldness: 'My lady, that spirit is sealed in a > stone, and the stone is locked by binding-spell and blinding-spell and charm > of lock and ward and triple fortress-walls in a barren land not because it > is precious, but because it can work great evil.' " > > .... > > Serret says " 'Only shadow can fight shadow, only darkness can defeat the > dark.' " and a little later " Ged's eyes cleared, and his mind. He looked > down at Serret. 'It is light that defeats the dark,' he said stammering, - > 'light.' " > > Of course it is a great mystery that good and evil can coexist and balance > each other, and this is of course a central theme to the original Earthsea > books, with the uniting of Ged and his shadow being part of it. And I can > see some shadow of beauty in the terrible Nameless ones that Arha serves, > but I still have difficulty with saying we should now turn and embrace these > things. > > UKL has said that she maintains the right to change her mind and to be > inconsistent. But I find it hard to give her that right sometimes! > particularly when it interferes with the appreciation of the beautiful books > that spoke so strongly to me in my youth. > > Hannah > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:59 PM > Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: The Other Wind > > > > Diane Severson writes: > > > >> ** spoilers ahead for The Other Wind** > > > >> I think it's interesting that UKL chose to deglorify the idea of the > >> Dry Land e.g. Everlasting life for the soul > > > > I'm not sure what you mean by "deglorify". For me, the Dry Land has > > always > > seemed like one of the most gloomy of afterlives -- an eternally dark > > desert > > where shades wait without purpose or meaning to their existence. Sort of > > like a train station. :) > > > > Of course, one might argue that the Dry Land isn't where *people* go -- > > it's > > only where their names go, and a certain amount of data about them, that > > can > > be called up (e.g. by Summoners) from time to time, in the form of shadows > > or images. A sort of vast filing system for wizards. The people > > themselves, the fullness of their lives, are less easy to grasp. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 20 22:25:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n5a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n5a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.225]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BC74A1040C6 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:48:17 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=L48faCSuhbh7LxVp5MgfNPuLvSUu+sbjjxr34LFYxLbuVKFamMgKEXRwRRfmfX6LnvvILFFgjNugqpFvozXMRXpa2L1e3sq5hbjLFoIJMzWzOCFMoBCmDQzDEPELV58U; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n5.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2006 00:48:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2006 00:48:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2006 00:48:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84188 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2006 00:48:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2006 00:48:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2006 00:48:12 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1FL8ZA-0007zG-17 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:48:12 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060320004811.GF4271@ccil.org> References: <1559BD05-E10F-4EDD-844C-E6B765350183@web.de> <000801c64ae7$861c9a00$32749ed9@robins6dd110df> In-Reply-To: <000801c64ae7$861c9a00$32749ed9@robins6dd110df> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:48:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: The Other Wind Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robins- one of scripsit: > 'But I will not speak with that spirit,' Ged replied, and looking full at > her he spoke with great boldness: 'My lady, that spirit is sealed in a > stone, and the stone is locked by binding-spell and blinding-spell and charm > of lock and ward and triple fortress-walls in a barren land not because it > is precious, but because it can work great evil.' " Read, I think, "can be used to work great evil." But we see in TFS and _Tehanu_ that the magic of names can also be used to work great evil. > Of course it is a great mystery that good and evil can coexist and balance > each other, and this is of course a central theme to the original Earthsea > books, with the uniting of Ged and his shadow being part of it. And I can > see some shadow of beauty in the terrible Nameless ones that Arha serves, > but I still have difficulty with saying we should now turn and embrace these > things. What we discover at the end of _TOW_ is that in fact the two greatest places of the Old Powers in all Earthsea are the Immanent Grove (a significant name) and Roke Knoll. The Roke tradition has been involved with the Old Powers throughout its existence, but this fact has been forgotten and later denied. Looking back, though, we see that it is so as early as _AWOE_, where it is on Roke Knoll that Ged's shadow breaks through into the world of light. Yet nobody would call Roke a place of evil! > UKL has said that she maintains the right to change her mind and to be > inconsistent. But I find it hard to give her that right sometimes! > particularly when it interferes with the appreciation of the beautiful books > that spoke so strongly to me in my youth. A book with only one message wouldn't be much of a book, IMO. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org www.ap.org www.ccil.org/~cowan If a soldier is asked why he kills people who have done him no harm, or a terrorist why he kills innocent people with his bombs, they can always reply that war has been declared, and there are no innocent people in an enemy country in wartime. The answer is psychotic, but it is the answer that humanity has given to every act of aggression in history. --Northrop Frye Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 21 20:15:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.38]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A8150CB53B for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 00:16:29 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=omty/QO53AXnlvHi7ef/jy0O3DWfOEXMEyJ64ViJKp7Qp5eMU8M+3nkRAPThZhkC3ZRFAqkNZJ7LItbgfus7DZLoAXcHbh5crzgEJSvNdlwGyWIJd3zdYCZXo8bqTdMV; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2006 08:16:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2006 08:16:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71567 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2006 08:16:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2006 08:16:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2006 08:16:27 -0000 Received: from du-040-0064.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.64] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1FLc1u-0004zx-Gl for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:15:50 +0000 Message-ID: <001e01c64cbf$a9f75120$40749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: <1559BD05-E10F-4EDD-844C-E6B765350183@web.de> <000801c64ae7$861c9a00$32749ed9@robins6dd110df> <20060320004811.GF4271@ccil.org> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.141 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:15:48 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: The Other Wind Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think one fear I felt was that the Immanent Grove and Roke Knoll would diminish, and pass away, like the elves in Lord of the Rings. I trust that you are right in thinking this is not so, they will endure. If you read the story The Finder in Tales from Earthsea it tells of the beginning of Roke as a setting for a school of magic, the Grove and Knoll were already there. But can we reinterpret Terranen and Atuan? I don't think that Tenar in later life is questioning her decision to leave with Ged, notwithstanding the sexism and racism she has to endure in Gont. What do people think? One interpretation that occurred to me was that the Terannen had been perverted from its original identity by man and had become evil through imprisonment and repression. I fully agree about not having just one message. Again this is part of UKLs mystery - how she weaves together apparently opposing ideas - reminding me of my feeling of awe learning in physics 40 years ago of the oneness of the wave and the particle. Nevertheless you can see that her perspective has changed over the years in some respects - partly the flowering of a profound feminism that enabled her to move away from the more male centric earlier books, Earthsea and League/Ekumen, without diminishing them. Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Cowan" To: Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: The Other Wind > Robins- one of scripsit: > >> 'But I will not speak with that spirit,' Ged replied, and looking full at >> her he spoke with great boldness: 'My lady, that spirit is sealed in a >> stone, and the stone is locked by binding-spell and blinding-spell and >> charm >> of lock and ward and triple fortress-walls in a barren land not because >> it >> is precious, but because it can work great evil.' " > > Read, I think, "can be used to work great evil." But we see in TFS and > _Tehanu_ > that the magic of names can also be used to work great evil. > >> Of course it is a great mystery that good and evil can coexist and >> balance >> each other, and this is of course a central theme to the original >> Earthsea >> books, with the uniting of Ged and his shadow being part of it. And I >> can >> see some shadow of beauty in the terrible Nameless ones that Arha serves, >> but I still have difficulty with saying we should now turn and embrace >> these >> things. > > What we discover at the end of _TOW_ is that in fact the two greatest > places of > the Old Powers in all Earthsea are the Immanent Grove (a significant name) > and Roke Knoll. The Roke tradition has been involved with the Old Powers > throughout > its existence, but this fact has been forgotten and later denied. Looking > back, > though, we see that it is so as early as _AWOE_, where it is on Roke Knoll > that > Ged's shadow breaks through into the world of light. Yet nobody would > call > Roke a place of evil! > >> UKL has said that she maintains the right to change her mind and to be >> inconsistent. But I find it hard to give her that right sometimes! >> particularly when it interferes with the appreciation of the beautiful >> books >> that spoke so strongly to me in my youth. > > A book with only one message wouldn't be much of a book, IMO. > > -- > John Cowan cowan@ccil.org www.ap.org www.ccil.org/~cowan > If a soldier is asked why he kills people who have done him no harm, or a > terrorist why he kills innocent people with his bombs, they can always > reply that war has been declared, and there are no innocent people in an > enemy country in wartime. The answer is psychotic, but it is the answer > that humanity has given to every act of aggression in history. --Northrop > Frye > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 21 20:15:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.221]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D48DCB354 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:26:42 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Hz4GG+PrGM7MeuAsFZxtkfoCycOCZe2J81gctO3XHJ3WVwyioXCZ1kaU+2hUvZFCHjSeQcvmNN62rrzBn3RzKU3Q8KvITgozi9/2g95Pp9J9U+/djmeLePZ7ZQTwrXOo; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2006 09:26:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2006 09:26:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2006 09:26:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13488 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2006 09:26:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2006 09:26:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (209.73.160.90) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2006 09:26:39 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2006 09:26:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2006 09:26:38 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 209.73.160.90 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:26:38 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: [ tabla rasa ] Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > A person of colour in this society doesn't not have the freedom to > remain ignorant by choice of the means and ways the dominant culture. I > have to know the way of the Whites if I am to provide bread for my table > and my pursuit of excellence is just as dependent on my assimilation of > White culture as it is on my actual job related skill within this > alleged Meritocracy. > > To be White in this world means you don't have to know about anyone but > yourself and your own people unless you 'feel' like it. I can not speak > further as this is not some abstract theory but a painful daily reality > for millions of people and these few comments are the limits of my > restraint. I really would have liked you to say more on the subject. And which society you are talking about. Also I think you are wrong, we need to know about all cultures that suround us. A very important example is the conflict centered on the carricatures of the prophet mohamed. If christian europeans had known more about the muslim europeans the live with this conflict would not have been generated. So then: teach us about your culture. Paula. PS. I do not want to be thrown in with white american culture just because my skin has the same light colour. I see myself as distinctly different. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 21:15:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n31a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n31a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [209.73.160.90]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D1E9CB5DA for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:55:42 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=jp3g7gh15BmpHPAIaHavC1hSjPuwBq3BHkWjTRZYoX0FzqK68y1mQ7VawD9aM+sWrA+5VZRcX9uhTqZnWfbTI/RBtPvCAK+mBIxuSQhDKHRy87Jg5ED6DbME0+n0sBPU; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2006 00:55:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2006 00:55:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: askitsu@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63171 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2006 00:55:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2006 00:55:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.222) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2006 00:55:37 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2006 00:55:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2006 00:55:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2006 00:55:36 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.222 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 216.196.177.243 From: "Auriel" X-Yahoo-Profile: askitsu Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:55:34 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: [ tabla rasa ] Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of the keys to critical thinking is that of testing one's assumptions. The socioeconomic power accorded by colour is the issue at hand my sister. Since you seem intent on engaging me in casual debate let me point out that even using "Common Sense" by which I mean consensual reality, the Western world is culturally dominated by fair skinned persons generally assumed to be of European descent. Whether or not you wish or do not wish to be characterized as "White", to see yourself as you say, "distinctly different" is not actually relevant. You have no control over the perceptions those who look upon your "Whiteness". Let me be perfectly clear in this, if you are fair enough skinned you will pass as White. For some several hundreds of years ethnicity and in specific skin colour has been of keen interest in discerning class and those privileges so accorded. For example many members of my family here in the Americas, Bermuda, the Caribbean and in Europe are as in the case of my own Father may "appear" in the colloquial parlance "Pass as White". I am of coca hue, taking I assume after my Mother's people from Santo Domingo/Haiti, of a mixed Amerindian, French, African. My next sibling in line bears a striking resemblance to my Father golden olive skinned and unless he makes issue of it, people will assume him to be Southern European Latin or as of late Arabic in ancestry and suspect. Since we were babes he and I have been well aware that people treat he and I differently according to our respective skin colours. I and my blood brethren born of the same Father and Mother span nearly every ethnic hue from Red to Yellow to Chocolate. We have no delusions I assure you about how both Black people and White people here in the Americas lie to themselves and to each other regarding colour. Members of my blood kin passed as White as a means of survival by serving in the Confederate forces out of Louisiana. I would assume would have been safer and more expedient by far than attempting the Northern Passage from that deep in the South. Here and now I make my home not more than a 20 minute walk from that crossing point upon the Ohio River. I respect your concern and desire to debate on the issue of free speech and the characterization of religious figures. However, they are are not germane to the general point I was striving to make in my original post. May I also add, again by resorting only to common sense, that the followers of all these paths of spiritual enlightenment draw from every single race, ethnic and socioeconomic strata on this planet. With respect, could we please return to the original discourse and not derail the path of reason I have set upon the table before this our Ekumen, our collective council to ruminate? Until when, Auriel Kitsu --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "jokerinchen" wrote: > > > > A person of colour in this society doesn't not have the freedom to > > remain ignorant by choice of the means and ways the dominant > > culture. I have to know the way of the Whites if I am to provide > > bread for my table and my pursuit of excellence is just as > > dependent on my assimilation of White culture as it is on my > > actual job related skill within this alleged Meritocracy. > > To be White in this world means you don't have to know about > > anyone but yourself and your own people unless you 'feel' like it. > > I can not speak further as this is not some abstract theory but a > > painful daily reality for millions of people and these few > > comments are the limits of my restraint. > > > > I really would have liked you to say more on the subject. > > And which society you are talking about. > > > > Also I think you are wrong, we need to know about all cultures > > that suround us. A very important example is the conflict centered > > on the carricatures of the prophet mohamed. If christian europeans > > had known more about the muslim europeans the live with this > > conflict would not have been generated. So then: teach us about > > your culture. > > > > Paula. > > > > PS. I do not want to be thrown in with white american culture just > > because my skin has the same light colour. I see myself as > > distinctly different. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Mar 30 18:26:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com (n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com [216.155.203.226]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E84BC1045CF for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:17:43 -0800 (PST) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=XcWOjaVyGuohffBwEZQUK4PSX+x/YKF01bU/E31NStxRIRLfDCVF7zBX6bHZHT1T4g/hjhGIUrroNwEzTyz+mQ6fub3M19haDlXuAeMuvvQBG9rKn7aFHOexcf9CqA6z; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n6.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2006 05:17:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2006 05:17:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2006 05:17:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: anariska@telus.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31718 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2006 05:17:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2006 05:17:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2006 05:17:36 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2006 05:17:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2006 05:17:36 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.52 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 24.80.122.78 From: "Susan Armstrong" X-Yahoo-Profile: anariska Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 05:17:33 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Stanislaw Lem 1921-2006 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With a heavy heart I note the passing of one of the great thinkers of the 20th century. IMO his _Solaris_ stands alone like a mighty pillar as literature's greatest evocation of the genuine, unknowable Alien. NIGHT Boris Pasternak The night proceeds and dwindling Prepares the day's rebirth. An airman is ascending Above the sleeping earth. And almost disappearing In cloud, a tiny spark, He now is like a cross-stitch, A midget laundry-mark. Beneath him are strange cities, And heavy traffic-lanes, And night-clubs, barracks, stokers, And railways, stations, trains. The shadow of his wing-span Falls heavy on the cloud. Celestial bodies wander Around him in a crowd. And there, with frightful listing Through emptiness, away Through unknown solar systems Revolves the Milky Way. In limitless expanses Are headlands burning bright. In basements and in cellars The stokers work all night. And underneath a rooftop In Paris, maybe Mars Or Venus sees a notice About a recent farce. And maybe in an attic And under ancient slates A man sits wakeful, working, He thinks and broods and waits; He looks upon the planet, As if the heavenly spheres Were part of his entrusted Nocturnal private cares. Fight off your sleep: be wakeful, Work on, keep up your pace, Keep vigil like the pilot, Like all the stars in space. Work on, work on, creator- To sleep would be a crime- Eternity's own hostage, And prisoner of Time. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Apr 28 16:41:11 2006 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Stanislaw Lem 1921-2006 Cc: Bcc: "Ä:lists:sf-femsf:the-ekumen" X-Attachments: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Re: [the-ekumen] Stanislaw Lem 1921-2006
things have been pretty quiet on the ekumen lately ...

i wanted to announce that i and some friends have set up a wiki for feminist SF -- it's at wiki.feministsf.net

participation welcomed -- this list's collective knowledge of all things le guinian would be invaluable to the rest of the world. 

laura

At 5:17 AM +0000 3/30/06, Susan Armstrong wrote:
With a heavy heart I note the passing of one of the great thinkers of
the 20th century.

IMO his _Solaris_ stands alone like a mighty pillar as literature's
greatest evocation of the genuine, unknowable Alien.



NIGHT
Boris Pasternak


The night proceeds and dwindling
Prepares the day's rebirth.
An airman is ascending
Above the sleeping earth.

And almost disappearing
In cloud, a tiny spark,
He now is like a cross-stitch,
A midget laundry-mark.

Beneath him are strange cities,
And heavy traffic-lanes,
And night-clubs, barracks, stokers,
And railways, stations, trains.

The shadow of his wing-span
Falls heavy on the cloud.
Celestial bodies wander
Around him in a crowd.

And there, with frightful listing
Through emptiness, away
Through unknown  solar systems
Revolves the Milky Way.

In limitless expanses
Are headlands burning bright.
In basements and in cellars
The stokers work all night.

And underneath a rooftop
In Paris, maybe Mars
Or Venus sees a notice
About a recent farce.

And maybe in an attic
And under ancient slates
A man sits wakeful, working,
He thinks and broods and waits;

He looks upon the planet,
As if the heavenly spheres
Were part of his entrusted
Nocturnal private cares.

Fight off your sleep: be wakeful,
Work on, keep up your pace,
Keep vigil like the pilot,
Like all the stars in space.

Work on, work on, creator-
To sleep would be a crime-
Eternity's own hostage,
And prisoner of Time.








 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

 From ???@??? Fri Apr 28 18:22:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n26b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n26b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [209.73.160.76]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 19264CB717 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=fMyIU7n6q2Gq1f9Yku54jJ5nOpCkuoF5UJKFrEqxYn0xKvNc9T8f5Dlb1OuTInextsOl+iYWw8TPYgsG6M4W1pqf7X2rJSwghE+7Vm9Kziz6t4qRs2e0hnGikcRb14vE; Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2006 20:41:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2006 20:41:52 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1510 X-Sender: lq2@lquilter.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32973 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2006 20:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2006 20:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO spunkymail-a9.dreamhost.com) (208.97.132.5) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2006 20:41:50 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.110] (pool-162-83-166-176.ny5030.east.verizon.net [162.83.166.176]) by spunkymail-a9.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AADF020536 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 208.97.132.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Laura Quilter X-Yahoo-Profile: lquilter Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:41:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Stanislaw Lem 1921-2006 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit things have been pretty quiet on the ekumen lately ... i wanted to announce that i and some friends have set up a wiki for feminist SF -- it's at wiki.feministsf.net participation welcomed -- this list's collective knowledge of all things le guinian would be invaluable to the rest of the world. laura At 5:17 AM +0000 3/30/06, Susan Armstrong wrote: >With a heavy heart I note the passing of one of the great thinkers of >the 20th century. > >IMO his _Solaris_ stands alone like a mighty pillar as literature's >greatest evocation of the genuine, unknowable Alien. > > > >NIGHT >Boris Pasternak > > >The night proceeds and dwindling >Prepares the day's rebirth. >An airman is ascending >Above the sleeping earth. > >And almost disappearing >In cloud, a tiny spark, >He now is like a cross-stitch, >A midget laundry-mark. > >Beneath him are strange cities, >And heavy traffic-lanes, >And night-clubs, barracks, stokers, >And railways, stations, trains. > >The shadow of his wing-span >Falls heavy on the cloud. >Celestial bodies wander >Around him in a crowd. > >And there, with frightful listing >Through emptiness, away >Through unknown solar systems >Revolves the Milky Way. > >In limitless expanses >Are headlands burning bright. >In basements and in cellars >The stokers work all night. > >And underneath a rooftop >In Paris, maybe Mars >Or Venus sees a notice >About a recent farce. > >And maybe in an attic >And under ancient slates >A man sits wakeful, working, >He thinks and broods and waits; > >He looks upon the planet, >As if the heavenly spheres >Were part of his entrusted >Nocturnal private cares. > >Fight off your sleep: be wakeful, >Work on, keep up your pace, >Keep vigil like the pilot, >Like all the stars in space. > >Work on, work on, creator- >To sleep would be a crime- >Eternity's own hostage, >And prisoner of Time. > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed May 17 13:53:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spoon.dreamhost.com Received: from n8a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n8a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.151]) by spoon.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3BD624467C for ; Tue, 16 May 2006 18:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=KUqghhx2qsN7F25NXVzJmUauMdF8eyxQ6BbwAlGW0klpVIbAuq3UHw95V1cGTUO8JBDXdStwR4qaPGmPfRD1WLeLqfzoQu2LdjRwatWiCZsslBccZ3sGrcqu7+hz95+/; Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n8.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2006 01:26:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2006 01:26:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2006 01:26:47 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1512 Received: (qmail 66524 invoked from network); 17 May 2006 01:26:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2006 01:26:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.211) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2006 01:26:44 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.122] by n20.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2006 01:26:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2006 01:26:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2006 01:26:43 -0000 X-Sender: christie36@uol.com.br X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57162 invoked from network); 15 May 2006 23:39:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 May 2006 23:39:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.uol.com.br) (200.221.4.203) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2006 23:39:10 -0000 Received: from computer (200-98-31-214.tlf.dialuol.com.br [200.98.31.214]) by scorpion6.uol.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 030727CDF for ; Mon, 15 May 2006 20:39:03 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <000e01c67880$234c7c80$d61f62c8@computer> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Originating-IP: 200.221.4.203 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Cris" X-Yahoo-Profile: claudiatakahashi2002 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 17 May 2006 01:26:42 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 21:31:55 -0300 Subject: [the-ekumen] Orkut Community about Ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hello! I've just created an orkut community about Ursula K. Le Guin, and I would be pleased if the ekumenical orkuters join it: http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=13591815 Thank you ; ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Home is just a click away.  Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/DHchtC/3FxNAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed May 17 13:53:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@straw.dreamhost.com Received: from n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.47]) by straw.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8FE93CB822 for ; Wed, 17 May 2006 07:07:41 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=tnpaHHSmfpToHZpg0p0JNVYODIXdb+Duz9OfmAxnNjJ5cwGe4Q/MMX40iUEZ614wEY0wqcvhKv2MeU31HbJ8w42azFG85Hs+SD1s/Y99WJ7bsfXYTWl/hGp5qdJxIWs2; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2006 14:07:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2006 14:07:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1513 X-Sender: mgoldfar@mobius.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34493 invoked from network); 17 May 2006 14:07:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2006 14:07:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2006 14:07:39 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2006 14:06:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2006 14:06:51 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000e01c67880$234c7c80$d61f62c8@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.47 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 204.126.130.10 From: "Michael S. Goldfarb" X-Yahoo-Profile: msg_from_ny Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 14:06:48 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Orkut Community about Ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But there already is an Orkut Community for Ursula: http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=13188 (Frankly, I gave up on Orkut a while ago, as it seems to be 95% in Portugese now!) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click.yahoo.com/.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed May 17 13:54:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@chopstick.dreamhost.com Received: from n21c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n21c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.212]) by chopstick.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 70578102449 for ; Wed, 17 May 2006 09:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.163.187.122] by n21.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2006 16:39:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2006 16:39:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2006 16:39:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1514 X-Sender: christie36@uol.com.br X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82116 invoked from network); 17 May 2006 16:39:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2006 16:39:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.uol.com.br) (200.221.4.198) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2006 16:39:03 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socom1.uol.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2BAB116915 for ; Wed, 17 May 2006 13:37:26 -0300 (BRT) Received: from computer (200-98-159-231.tlf.dialuol.com.br [200.98.159.231]) by socom1.uol.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E22A1168BC for ; Wed, 17 May 2006 13:37:10 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <002e01c67a98$55245560$e79f62c8@computer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SIG5: b86ce0043c1d501bf1f5c32aa1986b1d X-Originating-IP: 200.221.4.198 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Cris" X-Yahoo-Profile: claudiatakahashi2002 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 13:29:49 -0300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Orkut Community about Ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, but now there's another one, what's the matter? This community is all about her books. Maybe the orkut is now 95% in portuguese because no-portuguese speakers are quiting it, and I think this is no good, it would be great to be in touch with people all around the world and not just people from my country. Yesterday someone complained that the community I created is in portuguese, in fact it's bilingual, there's no way to create a portuguese community about Le Guin since the vast majority of her books lacks portuguese translation, and, because I actually wished no-portuguese speakers, that are the great majority of her readers, to join it. The problem is that, for now, just portuguese speaking people are in there, so we talk in portuguese, but anyone there may speak english either. I would love to turn the community in an all english speaking one since I could get people to discuss and don't let it stop. I guess that the problem of the brazilian invasion in orkut is very simple: brazilians don't have scrupuls in creating a bunch of communities about the same thing, don't mind joining a lot of communities, even if they are not going to participate in it. Unfortunately we take time to realize that the attitude of no-portuguese speakers are not equal to ours. I'm sorry, I'm reformulating the community to make it attractive (and more english speaking), and I would be really happy if someone here join it, ok? http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=13591815 Bye ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael S. Goldfarb To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:06 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Orkut Community about Ekumen But there already is an Orkut Community for Ursula: http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=13188 (Frankly, I gave up on Orkut a while ago, as it seems to be 95% in Portugese now!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/340 - Release Date: 15/5/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's free. See how. http://us.click.yahoo.com/_7bhrC/NGxNAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jun 15 17:39:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx3.dreamhost.com Received: from n32a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n32a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [209.73.160.92]) by spunkymail-mx3.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 228B58D171 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=CKpEZMGpUhABx95r9cKapTyyQuZruHhrRg2OV76WIlrlLgCWIaz3QnIWEkD/wI+KH36d73hL6unU8fCwA17tWgbSlszGffJ4KK7CO5KjlvgMhVpc2MAcTMhoMZ+KazVX; Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2006 02:15:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2006 02:15:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1515 X-Sender: dy@raitax.pair.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9902 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2006 02:15:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2006 02:15:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO raitax.pair.com) (209.68.2.16) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2006 02:15:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 50923 invoked by uid 3168); 15 Jun 2006 02:15:29 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060615021529.GA50854@danny.id.au> X-Originating-IP: 209.68.2.16 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: Danny Yee X-Yahoo-Profile: dannyreviews Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 22:15:29 -0400 Subject: [the-ekumen] Le Guin reviews _Hav_ Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Le Guin reviews Jan Morris' _Hav_ in the Guardian: http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1788931,00.html Danny. --------------------------------------------------------- http://dannyreviews.com/ - over nine hundred book reviews http://danny.oz.au/ - civil liberties, travel tales, blog --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 05 23:08:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com Received: from n21a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n21a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.50]) by spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3682FFA1F5 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 18:46:47 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=SBbucuQn7yy0UZNbK4OcfRHuwtDBpOUTHajY9ATg+RDEyrfoTVbGavNgY1bpcKaDNVj2Ukac1bgjMxISQci1wuTArPTFNV+ke7d7lQccxD9eU+cxSDx9oOQeK1sLDVs2; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 01:46:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 01:46:47 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1516 Received: (qmail 91819 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2006 01:46:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2006 01:46:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2006 01:46:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n16.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 01:46:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 01:46:44 -0000 X-Sender: niall_smyth@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34202 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2006 00:43:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2006 00:43:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.173) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2006 00:43:31 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.122] by n6.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 00:43:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 00:43:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 00:43:29 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.163.187.173 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 219.165.155.36 From: "poshniallo" X-Yahoo-Profile: poshniallo X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 06 Jul 2006 01:46:42 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 00:43:28 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Tales From Earthsea Trailer Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wouldn't call assuming scars=evil part of the language of anime. There's dumb, superficial anime, and others. Check out Paranoia Agent (Mousou Dairinin) or Mushishi to see something more original. Having said that, I'm pretty disappointed by how loosely Ghibli have translated the books, and by how they haven't really paid any attention to the Sci-Fi Channel furore. It's not just the skin colour of the protagonists - it's also apparent in how (in their synopsis and dev-blog) they've made metaphysical conflicts into physical ones, made Cob into a stereotypical evil wizard, and Arren into a generic fantasy hero with sword in hand. Not really the books I love for their lyricism and individuality. It's very depressing - a studio I love make a movie of a book I love and it looks awful. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 06 14:07:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx3.dreamhost.com Received: from n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.52]) by spunkymail-mx3.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5549B8D342 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 04:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=ijM9TtnWg02zlU/YDKUPffziCLHwkXsYRY56BrHu6VGUe5/uU/t46lbruIzr0cjTR46+dazr6aqw7su2iLa6DJWXbmh4HzhNjvbM87vcvMjk0VAjur3nTokgH+8eEz4U; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 11:03:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.35] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 11:03:51 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1517 X-Sender: hannah@robinscv.eclipse.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34848 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2006 10:56:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2006 10:56:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.53) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2006 10:56:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 10:54:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 10:54:41 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.53 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.152.202.81 From: "Hannah Robins" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 10:54:39 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] le guin question on University Challenge Reunited Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The old UK quiz show with more or less abstruse questions (see http://www.ukgameshows.com/index.php/University_Challenge - I see the concept originated in Canada) had been playing with the formula a bit recently and has just finished a 'reunited' tournament - former students looking grizzled and wrinkly. I happened to watch the final - or perhaps looking at this site a repeat of the final of 2002 - (which came on after an interesting programme on China - that's my excuse anyway). What should come up but a question on UKL - Jeremy pronounced the name in a French manner 'Le Gwan' (have I been wrong all these years in calling her 'Le Gwin'?) The questions was along the lines of name the book about an anarchist world. The contestants were rubbish at this. 'Ah' thought a bearded fellow 'I know what she wrote' and came up with the confident answer 'A wizard of Earthsea'! (clearly never read it though) The other team was flummoxed and came up with a generic title with dragons in. And they were all about my vintage too! around in the 70s when she was first getting published in the uk. Thought you might be amused Hannah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 06 14:08:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx2.dreamhost.com Received: from n23b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n23b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.190]) by spunkymail-mx2.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 55D59705B4 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=pPcQ3g+uh6dLhjIAfBBYBH20X4aRfXmLqfbZipZrNiVNPcQPuM3Q9VGn99mv8ZaaDGj1VpbeXhTboIcJX37XpZyiYJD7QmlkteSON6DMJ5+Q6mOoNfsydPwUx4BYXw3G; Received: from [66.163.187.122] by n23.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 15:55:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 15:55:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 15:55:04 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1518 X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59157 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2006 15:43:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2006 15:43:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2006 15:43:16 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1FyVmr-0000GJ-Bq for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 06 Jul 2006 11:29:05 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060706152905.GA28632@ccil.org> References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:29:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] le guin question on University Challenge Reunited Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hannah Robins scripsit: > What should come up but a question on UKL - Jeremy pronounced > the name in a French manner 'Le Gwan' (have I been wrong all these years > in calling her 'Le Gwin'?) No, no, you are right, at least when speaking English, and he is wrong under any circumstances: "Le Gwan" is not French. Here's Luh Gwinn herself: Een zees country we say Luh Gwinn. En France nous disons Le Guin, comme le vin ou le gain; et en Bretagne - c'est un nom breton - je crois que c'est encore Luh Gwinn. (Like Gwyn in Welsh - I think it's the same word.) See http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/sciencefiction/story/0,6000,1144428,00.html . -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan The competent programmer is fully aware of the strictly limited size of his own skull; therefore he approaches the programming task in full humility, and among other things he avoids clever tricks like the plague. --Edsger Dijkstra Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 06 14:08:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com Received: from n6a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n6a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.149]) by spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E6130FA238 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=CoFJNhddOJfx7PggoUwWqKcHOlg4M8jZ7u2+M3RFJDDKcuDR6tgFeBhmBb1fkFLN/gOEjQE9fLMFuHfGRQd9yiCkZtgPIieIPpeVHNpUddlBffR1ASPYxLS5z1ck7+D/; Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n6.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 16:25:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 16:25:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.96] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 16:25:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1519 X-Sender: hannah@robinscv.eclipse.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28888 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2006 16:18:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2006 16:18:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mra05.ch.as12513.net) (82.153.254.73) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2006 16:18:51 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mra05.ch.as12513.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013EDC0255 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:18:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from mra05.ch.as12513.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mra05.ch.as12513.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 05176-01-73 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:18:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from robins5e38f426 (unknown [82.152.202.81]) by mra05.ch.as12513.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EF97EC0508 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:18:09 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000f01c6a117$c4a81f70$0200a8c0@robins5e38f426> To: References: <20060706152905.GA28632@ccil.org> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Virus-Scanned: by Eclipse VIRUSshield at eclipse.net.uk X-Originating-IP: 82.153.254.73 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Hannah Robins" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:18:07 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] le guin question on University Challenge Reunited Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nah - its only my poor phonics I'm sure Jeremy's French accent was impeccable ----- Original Message ----- From: John Cowan To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] le guin question on University Challenge Reunited Hannah Robins scripsit: > What should come up but a question on UKL - Jeremy pronounced > the name in a French manner 'Le Gwan' (have I been wrong all these years > in calling her 'Le Gwin'?) No, no, you are right, at least when speaking English, and he is wrong under any circumstances: "Le Gwan" is not French. Here's Luh Gwinn herself: Een zees country we say Luh Gwinn. En France nous disons Le Guin, comme le vin ou le gain; et en Bretagne - c'est un nom breton - je crois que c'est encore Luh Gwinn. (Like Gwyn in Welsh - I think it's the same word.) See http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/sciencefiction/story/0,6000,1144428,00.html . -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan The competent programmer is fully aware of the strictly limited size of his own skull; therefore he approaches the programming task in full humility, and among other things he avoids clever tricks like the plague. --Edsger Dijkstra [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 06 14:08:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com Received: from n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.53]) by spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4E96EFA1AB for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=QfdVotKsQtW8GW/TuPUAxbS4fkMyE654bVsC/ZfPlqSmNV/splVHxPKibba7gC0S5nggFq2/wFG8wQF/BOWoIZkT1M0l5LePeW3g7kz3tmgdVJeMvLh7952ugOvEEuYI; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 17:48:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.95] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2006 17:48:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1520 X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73609 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2006 17:43:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2006 17:43:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2006 17:43:30 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1FyXjc-0004MJ-Tw for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:33:52 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060706173352.GA16406@ccil.org> References: <20060706152905.GA28632@ccil.org> <000f01c6a117$c4a81f70$0200a8c0@robins5e38f426> In-Reply-To: <000f01c6a117$c4a81f70$0200a8c0@robins5e38f426> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:33:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] le guin question on University Challenge Reunited Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hannah Robins scripsit: > nah - its only my poor phonics I'm sure Jeremy's French accent was impeccable Not if it had a "gw" sound in it. French just doesn't have that sound, or combination of sounds. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan Female celebrity stalker, on a hot morning in Cairo: "Imagine, Colonel Lawrence, ninety-two already!" El Auruns's reply: "Many happy returns of the day!" ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jul 07 11:13:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com Received: from n14a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n14a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.157]) by spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E0D87199AC6 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=S+aqcdgP9yh/FIjjd6Cmqa369a5bDDW5fygFDsjAO2kfQfciB5PVDhaWGEyO3qNUon+knhCFOdU+VY/OxcwM5iIdrhgS6e4SgwVmXK6dc80np2FHtrXdgyrEYu76fmbA; Received: from [66.163.187.122] by n14.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jul 2006 15:10:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jul 2006 15:10:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.94] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jul 2006 15:10:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1521 X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90963 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2006 15:10:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2006 15:10:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fmmailgate01.web.de) (217.72.192.221) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2006 15:10:18 -0000 Received: from smtp08.web.de (fmsmtp08.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.5.216]) by fmmailgate01.web.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 181156F6AF7 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:09:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [81.1.102.208] (helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp08.web.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (WEB.DE 4.107 #114) id 1Fyrxh-0001tJ-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 07 Jul 2006 17:09:46 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1152188805.514.59450.m19@yahoogroups.com> References: <1152188805.514.59450.m19@yahoogroups.com> Message-Id: <8A368BDF-9046-4230-A75C-A5CF645E0B39@web.de> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Originating-IP: 217.72.192.221 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Diane Severson X-Yahoo-Profile: divadiane1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:09:45 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 565 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Hannah, That's hysterical! What were the game show people thinking? I wonder how many people in the world actually know the answer to that question? As for how to pronounce her name: She has said (I think it might also be on her website) "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" (or something similar) meaning that when she is in France she pronounces her name in the french manner. when anywhere else as Le Gwinn! So, you see, you were never wrong! Diane On 6 Jul 2006, at 13:26, the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com wrote: > 2. le guin question on University Challenge Reunited > Posted by: "Hannah Robins" hannah@robinscv.eclipse.co.uk > elsiepiddock > Date: Thu Jul 6, 2006 4:03 am (PDT) > > > The old UK quiz show with more or less abstruse questions (see > http://www.ukgameshows.com/index.php/University_Challenge > - I see > the concept originated in Canada) had been playing with the formula a > bit recently and has just finished a 'reunited' tournament - former > students looking grizzled and wrinkly. I happened to watch the > final - > or perhaps looking at this site a repeat of the final of 2002 - > (which > came on after an interesting programme on China - that's my excuse > anyway). What should come up but a question on UKL - Jeremy > pronounced > the name in a French manner 'Le Gwan' (have I been wrong all these > years > in calling her 'Le Gwin'?) > > The questions was along the lines of name the book about an anarchist > world. > > The contestants were rubbish at this. 'Ah' thought a bearded > fellow 'I > know what she wrote' and came up with the confident answer 'A > wizard of > Earthsea'! (clearly never read it though) > > The other team was flummoxed and came up with a generic title with > dragons in. > > And they were all about my vintage too! around in the 70s when she was > first getting published in the uk. > > Thought you might be amused > > Hannah ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jul 10 11:50:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com Received: from n21b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n21b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.188]) by spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AB35EFA337 for ; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 16:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=ExQi2o/JAe4yBj7rm8zdfnd9JuXwcK8Pk3sE9Z3s5bwsK8k6jxpbj84t58SegUIpD1qz5i3iefrTLuvjXqQrQUWKTd/CK3qsNAx00kYn1kX3kWyCHB2pQWfG6ew82aHu; Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n21.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2006 23:11:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2006 23:11:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2006 23:11:32 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1522 X-Sender: ferhat@ceng.metu.edu.tr X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15086 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2006 23:02:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2006 23:02:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO newton.ceng.metu.edu.tr) (144.122.171.106) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2006 23:02:29 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by newton.ceng.metu.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 933BB36096 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:55:22 +0300 (EEST) Received: from newton.ceng.metu.edu.tr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (newton.ceng.metu.edu.tr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26483-05 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:55:22 +0300 (EEST) Received: by newton.ceng.metu.edu.tr (Postfix, from userid 43643) id 4D0A33609C; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:55:22 +0300 (EEST) Received: from webmail.ceng.metu.edu.tr (postman.ceng.metu.edu.tr [144.122.171.199]) by newton.ceng.metu.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3252736096 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:55:22 +0300 (EEST) Received: from 81.214.155.83 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ferhat) by webmail.ceng.metu.edu.tr with HTTP; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:57:26 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3274.81.214.155.83.1152485846.squirrel@webmail.ceng.metu.edu.tr> In-Reply-To: <8A368BDF-9046-4230-A75C-A5CF645E0B39@web.de> References: <1152188805.514.59450.m19@yahoogroups.com> <8A368BDF-9046-4230-A75C-A5CF645E0B39@web.de> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.520000, version=1.0.0 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ceng.metu.edu.tr X-Originating-IP: 144.122.171.106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Ali Ferhat Tamur" X-Yahoo-Profile: alitamur Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:57:26 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [the-ekumen] Question about Malafrena Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I love Le Guin more than any other writer but sometimes when I get to the end of her books I feel I missed some point. It had happened in "The Other Wind" and now it happened in "Malafrena". It is not translated to my native language and my English is not so good either. Or perhaps I'm more used to less open ended novels. My question is, what's up between Piera and Itale? Are they going to be lovers or are they going to be friends? I love to imagine Itale settled down (like his grandpa) and married her, but I'm also aware that Ms. LeGuin's mind and the universe does not shape by my wishes, and I truly cannot understand his intentions at the point the novel ends. best regards, Ali Ferhat Tamur ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 20 10:16:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com Received: from n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.53]) by spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 59AAFFA151 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=sf00PlSTT6SnykOAVVyStKYsZ3VzfYrprpqqP4W3Ykcq54xBTms1y8P3F04HusZeXTBxsZrUPsykwopujw236CDDAvZloQcJwE5SGpHqLFb4O3uJxQp3uCQb6oGGUoME; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2006 22:54:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.35] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2006 22:54:07 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1523 X-Sender: hannah@robinscv.eclipse.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89392 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2006 22:46:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2006 22:46:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mra02.ch.as12513.net) (82.153.254.70) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2006 22:46:56 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mra02.ch.as12513.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1160D41F4 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:46:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from mra02.ch.as12513.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mra02.ch.as12513.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 14693-01-31 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:46:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from robins5e38f426 (unknown [82.152.170.243]) by mra02.ch.as12513.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 63F61D42F2 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:46:42 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <004b01c6ab85$36387eb0$0200a8c0@robins5e38f426> To: References: <1152188805.514.59450.m19@yahoogroups.com> <8A368BDF-9046-4230-A75C-A5CF645E0B39@web.de> <3274.81.214.155.83.1152485846.squirrel@webmail.ceng.metu.edu.tr> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Virus-Scanned: by Eclipse VIRUSshield at eclipse.net.uk X-Originating-IP: 82.153.254.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Hannah Robins" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:46:45 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Question about Malafrena Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ali My take on it has always been that although there has been sexual tension between them from time to time they definitely decide to be friends and only friends at the end. Like you I felt I wanted them to make a go of it! but realise this may be too conventional an approach - Malafrena is not a love story first and foremost. It also deals interestingly with issues of national identity, seen as an ethical issue of Freedom rather than dealing with individual liberties or social justice - somehow I kept expecting Itale to be a socialist but he wasn't and he returned to his ancestral land which he definitely had no qualms about owning. Was it really his idealism that Piera responded to rather than his body? She did after all have another consuming romantic affair. Both her relationship and Itale's with Luisa (have I got that name right? or am I thinking of his sister) interestingly dealt with a higher status female and a lower status male. UKL playing with the mores of the 19th Century! or again I've always assumed it was set in the 19th century. Having said all this I think I'd better re read it to check my memories. Thank you for prompting me to! Have you also tried Orsinian tales? short stories dealing with Itale and Piera's country. UKL does leave the relationship issue tantalisingly hanging in a way that it is possible to visualise another result after the book ends. Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ali Ferhat Tamur" To: Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 11:57 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Question about Malafrena > > Hello all, > > I love Le Guin more than any other writer but sometimes when I get to the > end of her books I feel I missed some point. It had happened in "The Other > Wind" and now it happened in "Malafrena". It is not translated to my > native language and my English is not so good either. Or perhaps I'm more > used to less open ended novels. My question is, what's up between Piera > and Itale? Are they going to be lovers or are they going to be friends? I > love to imagine Itale settled down (like his grandpa) and married her, but > I'm also aware that Ms. LeGuin's mind and the universe does not shape by > my wishes, and I truly cannot understand his intentions at the point the > novel ends. > > best regards, > Ali Ferhat Tamur > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Aug 22 14:50:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com Received: from n22b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n22b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.189]) by spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7C256199F40 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 06:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=uKR+DqCIGdTumJmefg5SFInaLknpE6GMYxKqER5RhK+xfXLNghwbDoj/OrkN8ZpOs7n1hvQcK73/yxVfdMud3DBeQiT+gKp97NvpR3f8iljPGc/+FfZFKzu9DrWoZPam; Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n22.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2006 13:07:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2006 13:07:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2006 13:07:25 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1525 X-Sender: central_21@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16324 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2006 12:56:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2006 12:56:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.213) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2006 12:56:43 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n22.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2006 12:56:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2006 12:56:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2006 12:56:26 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.163.187.213 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 125.22.158.149 From: "central" X-Yahoo-Profile: central_21 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:56:25 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Disappointment Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi, i just feel bad that its as bad as i thought it was gonna be. was so excited when i heard about it, esp comin from studio ghibli who've made some amazin animated flicks the only one of which iv seen is spirited away, tho iv got howl's movin castle comin up. i def thought that an animated series would b the only way to do justice to the world of earthsea, dont think any movie can quite be as good. i know u may all not feel the same considerin how LOTR was translated from page to picture but i just feel that an animated series gives the makers a LOT more freedom, instead of just being limited to the special effects that they have at hand. anyways back to the point, got put off when i saw the trailer, all whites ? no scars on ged or tehrru (apologies if its spelled wrong), totally mixed up storyline ..... i mean wat was ULG THINKING when she agreed to it all???? only consolation is that the movie has been made by the son of the guy who made spirited away, in other words not by the guy who made movies that a lot of people have come to love ..... DAMN !!!! if there's ever somethin that NEEDS a remake its this !!!! --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "poshniallo" wrote: > > Well, I'm sitting here in my house in sunny Nihon, watching a TV show > about Gedo Senki, deciding not to bother going to the cinema, and very > disappointed. > > The story seems so radically changed it's an insult to the original. > Magical swords, Cob is a woman(?), the world is saved by a young hero > fighting rather than self-sacrifice or however you'd interpret the > book, the characters are white, Earthsea seems much more Earth than Sea. > > I could go on, but you get the picture. I honestly wonder why Le Guin > agreed to this, and what her reaction might be, given how people > reacted to the TV miniseries. > > I'm FAR from a purist (I loved the LOTR movies) but there's just no > point taking an atypical, original fantasy and then remaking it into > formulaic pap. > > Sadly, > > Niall > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Aug 23 09:37:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com Received: from n10c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n10c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.201]) by spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B53F7199EE8 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=JuUTYNFttVnfUv9r8IeN7E4RRAWhK7gu1vknMcFEjDj99LOrcaIqx4zb8uKPaMD191bHTtVtwE40Lbfpa9kwODpfho7qtomPSmK8qvUzqSK3a10e3GGtxjbCJBkzsQOy; Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n10.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2006 06:45:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2006 06:45:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2006 06:45:51 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1526 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28318 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2006 22:38:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2006 22:38:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vms040pub.verizon.net) (206.46.252.40) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2006 22:38:38 -0000 Received: from zion.bellatlantic.net ([71.241.130.108]) by vms040.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0J4F00MIU87KUEG1@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:38:09 -0500 (CDT) In-reply-to: X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.2.20060822182732.027b73a0@incoming.verizon.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 References: X-Originating-IP: 206.46.252.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:38:07 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Disappointment Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 12:56 PM 8/22/2006 +0000, central wrote: >anyways back to the point, got put off when i saw the trailer, all >whites ? no scars on ged or tehrru (apologies if its spelled wrong), >totally mixed up storyline ..... i mean wat was ULG THINKING when she >agreed to it all???? Actually, she didn't agree to it. What she did was sign away the rights to a film for an undisclosed amount of money. Once that happened, she lost any control over what was made of it. The film makers extended her a courtesy by meeting with her, but they were under no obligation to do as she wished or even to follow through on their own promises. And indeed, they didn't. See Le Guin's comments on her web site, here: http://www.ursulakleguin.com/GedoSenkiResponse.html ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Thom Yorke -- The Eraser "Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist." Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? 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Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everybody, My name is Brian and I'm new here. My main reason for joining is to be able talk with you all about about Leguin. As of yet I have not read alot of her works. I was introduced to her books by reading the first three Earthsea novels. I'm now in the middle of Tales From Earthsea and enjoying it very much. I have a copy of The Other Wind waiting for me when I finish this one. I hear the Novels of the Ekumen are important to her body of work. I guess these books can be read in any order. Is this correct or not. By the way is there any way you can buy new the first three books individually. In case you were wondering I live in Oregon. I did get to see Ursula Leguin speak when I was a student at Portland State University. I hear she still lives in Portland. Well I guess that's about all for now. I'll send this now in the hopes of hearing from some of you soon. Take it easy Brian ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Sep 02 20:49:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx2.dreamhost.com Received: from n6c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n6c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.197]) by spunkymail-mx2.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5488E71349 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? 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(baleensavage@70.33.210.189 with plain) by smtp110.plus.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2006 21:27:40 -0000 In-Reply-To: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Originating-IP: 206.190.53.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Jeremiah Savage X-Yahoo-Profile: baleensavage X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 01 Sep 2006 21:50:24 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:27:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Brian and welcome to the group. I too am relatively new here. Ursula has a great list on her Web site about the Ekumen and Earthsea books and what order to read them in. You can get to it here: http://www.ursulakleguin.com/FAQ_Questionnaire5_01.html#EkumenBooks Being a big fan of her Ekumen work (I have only read the first Earthsea book), I might recommend that you read them in a little different order than chronological. Each story in the Ekumen stands on its own and does not require any previous knowledge of other books, in fact there are even some inconsistencies (which she mentions on her site). If you read them in chronological order that means you start with Rocannons World, which in my opinion is one of her worst works. It was originally a short story nd the book does not meld well with the story. Also it was one of her early works, so it is not as well written. Any of her other early works would be a good starting point, like Planet of Exile and City of Illusions. In fact you will often see her first three books in one volume. I'm partial to Word for World is Forest myself (though its really hard to find). Her later works are very different and can be hard to get into because they are so dense (but are very very much worth it). The Disposessed, Left Hand of Darkness and The Telling are all masterpieces of 20th century literature. Hope that helps, and enjoy some of the best writing out there! -jeremiah -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Jeremiah Savage jdms photography and illustration www.jdmsphoto.com Visit Helios' Forsaken, the online multimedia comic book by Jeremiah at www.heliosforsaken.com -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- On Aug 31, 2006, at 3:27 AM, bhackney51@aol.com wrote: > Hi everybody, My name is Brian and I'm new here. My main reason > for joining is to be able talk with you all about about Leguin. As > of yet I have not read alot of her works. I was introduced to her > books by reading the first three Earthsea novels. I'm now in the > middle of Tales From Earthsea and enjoying it very much. I have a > copy of The Other Wind waiting for me when I finish this one. I > hear the Novels of the Ekumen are important to her body of work. I > guess these books can be read in any order. Is this correct or not. > By the way is there any way you can buy new the first three books > individually. In case you were wondering I live in Oregon. I did > get to see Ursula Leguin speak when I was a student at Portland > State University. I hear she still lives in Portland. Well I guess > that's about all for now. I'll send this now in the hopes of > hearing from some of you soon. > > Take it easy > > Brian > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, > email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Sep 01 08:55:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com Received: from n20a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n20a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.49]) by spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9461A19A09B for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 00:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=CyRj2IAnkPnCZfIWlZen78lScCJk4UR7ggk6zKMJlCUIpJ4792wvZAlENaagZI5pnZ+tbpUfOm3ewOTG1Xiuv/qH5QsTLhYex6FcDI4xwAnRvO/0H0OvJvbgZD0KPerU; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2006 07:07:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.94] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2006 07:07:59 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1528 X-Sender: erickaki@pacbell.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52152 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2006 07:07:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2006 07:07:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.25) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2006 07:07:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2006 07:07:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2006 07:07:51 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.25 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.231.136.158 From: "Eric Adkins & Kaki Wall" X-Yahoo-Profile: erickaki Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:07:49 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Hi Everybody! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Brian, The Ekumen books can be read in any order you come across, but I would recommend for you to read the first three worlds of exile and illusion. One story of this re-issued collection is fantastically adventurous, one dimly bleak and another one atomically bright. They represent the initial range of written experimentations for this series. The more recent novel, The Telling and The Birthday of the World collection has an even more mature range, but save this era for later... the worries and wars must be exercised before there is peace and forgiveness. My first Ekumen or Hainish book was Left Hand of Darkness, which opened up to me that sf can be sensitive and adventurous without all the techno-wizardry trying to keep me entertained. The social/sexual/political League of Worlds views gives me insight to our own world and what we are missing, in terms of community and relating to individuals in body and spirit. Our present Terran commercialism and crap seems so disconnected from "reality" compared to what Ursula has built for us... thoughtful escapism, not unlike the feeling of wearing a Ring or riding a Dune, as series books go. I have enjoyed discovering and collecting Hainish short story collections and novels. I am all caught up which saddens me. However, there is such a body of work that reading Left Hand of Darkness three times in the last twenty five years, I have picked up different themes and dig into it even more. Disposessed is another epic that I read later on, but the re-issue of all these short stories in the last couple of years really has made me happy to see the range and scope that Ursula left open for herself to be thoughtful and creative in her writing. Personally, I have never got into the Earthsea tales early enough to enjoy. I felt it is written for a younger read more like the tales of the Hobbit, than the sagas of the Rings, let alone the Silmarillon lore. I wish Ms. Leguin would dive into the Hainish lore on that level... but maybe she will transmit it on her personal Ansible in time. My first Leguin story was introduced to me in Jr. High School as a class reading, with the amazing PBS movie version to follow in 1979. It was a very cool class. That was a very strong introduction indeed to her sf style. It set me up to think with an open mind when reading her books from then on. Today, Catwings fly off my daughters shelf these nights, maybe Earthsea will follow in a few years. ,Eric By the way, I found the first three "old" Ace paper backs, but most of her stories are novellas and short stories in length. Most publishers wouldn't re-issue new singles when they can publish a substantial collection. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Sep 02 13:28:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com Received: from n19c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n19c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.210]) by spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 08C24FA17A for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 07:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=bMfAkBaPJncbKxgf/UDxBSNBZQSUf1SFjhG3nodP3GLYDJyALBjanxj7EebPR1+A3qKlOB9Ftgz90/HZYGbko2HR9keVs5r9Hg+N3HpIl0HMYDGubVWOgqiJjbgtnAH7; Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n19.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2006 14:01:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2006 14:01:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2006 14:01:12 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1529 X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64608 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2006 14:01:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2006 14:01:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2006 14:01:07 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1GJ9ZE-0003T6-93 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 10:00:20 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060901140020.GF31011@ccil.org> References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:00:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Hi Everybody! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric Adkins & Kaki Wall scripsit: > Personally, I have never got into the Earthsea tales early enough to > enjoy. I felt it is written for a younger read more like the tales of > the Hobbit, than the sagas of the Rings, let alone the Silmarillon lore. How far did you get? It's true that the protagonists in the first three Earthsea books are young, but they do grow and change as the series progresses. _Tehanu_, the fourth book, is very distant indeed from _The Hobbit_. -- Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out. --Arthur C. Clarke, "The Nine Billion Names of God" John Cowan Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Sep 02 20:49:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com Received: from n12c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n12c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.203]) by spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 50E59FA143 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=p72+m+9sdFAeBFKdecRh95Z/t59mSPQi3hbdksSYjWBfWISBAsQutZA5RGhtJvOwM8i+odYC4XhyiY7bPSIjSP8uYVk16oq3QgTUd9yk4NOoUOY0RfAYT7q6yg4fb8Yy; Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n12.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2006 21:59:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2006 21:59:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2006 21:59:04 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1531 Received: (qmail 5330 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2006 21:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2006 21:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.172) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2006 21:52:37 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.122] by n5.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2006 21:51:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2006 21:51:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2006 21:51:10 -0000 X-Sender: MZUPANC1@JHMI.EDU X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74566 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2006 19:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2006 19:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ipex4.johnshopkins.edu) (128.220.2.151) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2006 19:52:33 -0000 Received: from jhem1.johnshopkins.edu ([10.181.31.201]) by ipex4.johnshopkins.edu with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 01 Sep 2006 15:52:05 -0400 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.08,201,1154923200"; d="scan'208"; a="189052138:sNHT24617580" Received: from johnshopkins.edu ([10.181.31.211]) by jesmail.johnshopkins.edu (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTP id <0J4X00AWRJ6ZCO00@jesmail.johnshopkins.edu> for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.181.192.191] (Forwarded-For: [162.129.37.93]) by jesmail.johnshopkins.edu (mshttpd); Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:52:11 -0400 In-reply-to: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-id: X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006) Content-language: en X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 128.220.2.151 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: MARGARET ZUPANCIC X-Yahoo-Profile: megzupancic X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 01 Sep 2006 21:51:09 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:52:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Hi Everybody! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently read the "Worlds of Exile and Illusion" books after having read several others from the Hainish series. With this background, I felt I could really see the evolution of Le Guin's writing over the course of these early books...it seemed to me that in _City of Illusions_ she was beginning to incorporate more of her philosophy in a way that I didn't see in the two others, which struck me as more straighforward fantasy/adventure. A word to the wise: the planet Werel in _Planet of Exile_ is not the same Werel as that in _Four Ways to Forgiveness_ (I didn't realize this at first and worked myself into quite a mental tangle trying to figure out how the one might have developed into the other!) While _Four Ways to Forgiveness_ is primarily set in the (other)Werel/Yeowe system, as far as I know this is the only book in which we get an in-depth look at the Hainish on their own planet (am I wrong about this?). The description of Hainish "pueblo" culture struck me as remarkably similar to the culture Le Guin depicts in another (non-Hainish cycle) book, _Always Coming Home_. _ACH_ and _The Dispossessed_ are my two favorite Le Guin books; it strikes me as a testament to her versatility as a writer and thinker that one person could have conceived two such different utopian visions. Le Guin always cites Taoism as one of her major influences; reading _Always Coming Home_ makes me wonder to what extent native Californian culture is another. It seems that it must be, especially considering her father's work. Anyone know anything about this? Eric - I know what you mean when you say "Our present Terran commercialism and crap seems > so disconnected from > "reality" compared to what Ursula has built for us... thoughtful > escapism, not unlike the > feeling of wearing a Ring or riding a Dune." I agree - these books have been a great source of solace for me in recent years. Best, Meg Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Sep 02 20:51:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com Received: from n13a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n13a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.156]) by spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2DC36FA134 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=aqEoySc3T2YLlle8GdxGUUIxF/VkqRFDVkIm1xngnkJ4eIGJeSqF6KFnIlqXSfpmlKt3R6YEUlS261rrfA3ibFKA//RHGE1qmpsaYOyPuZtnjihTIZNlQvHD55RVGguM; Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n13.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 08:25:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 08:25:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 08:25:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1532 X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35110 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2006 08:24:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2006 08:24:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2006 08:24:23 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1GJQne-0002Ej-3o for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 04:24:22 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060902082421.GA5075@ccil.org> References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 04:24:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Hi Everybody! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MARGARET ZUPANCIC scripsit: > A word to the wise: the planet Werel in _Planet of Exile_ is not the > same Werel as that in _Four Ways to Forgiveness_ (I didn't realize > this at first and worked myself into quite a mental tangle trying to > figure out how the one might have developed into the other!) Very true. However, the references to "Alterra" elsewhere in the Hainish Cycle *do* refer to _PoE_'s Werel: when the ex-Terran and local people unify their culture, they come to call themselves (or be called) "Alterrans". -- And it was said that ever after, if any John Cowan man looked in that Stone, unless he had a cowan@ccil.org great strength of will to turn it to other http://ccil.org/~cowan purpose, he saw only two aged hands withering in flame. --"The Pyre of Denethor" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Sep 02 20:51:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx5.dreamhost.com Received: from n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.53]) by spunkymail-mx5.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BBAA8408B0 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 02:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=e92eznDH6IL/ds/6yuPUE2XmOk5f5/1mviTbe4wcGpIVPI59OQuHzaaNw7qPfv6Kayo00tpwMUAq8n9mxIb2LNCFoP/pVoqe72lEqlyW0G+zihy95b9vs5qLwQs3gjQE; Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 09:33:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.98] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 09:33:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1533 X-Sender: hannah@robinscv.eclipse.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78800 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2006 09:33:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2006 09:33:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mra01.ch.as12513.net) (82.153.254.69) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2006 09:33:45 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mra01.ch.as12513.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05E228C213 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:33:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from mra01.ch.as12513.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mra01.ch.as12513.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 05748-01-16 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:33:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from robins5e38f426 (unknown [82.152.200.37]) by mra01.ch.as12513.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A192028C201 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:33:41 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> To: References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: by Eclipse VIRUSshield at eclipse.net.uk X-Originating-IP: 82.153.254.69 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Hannah Robins" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:33:46 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Just wanted to say a few words in favour of Rocannon's World. It was the second UKL book that I read - after Wizard of Earthsea - so of course it has the resonance of youth about it for me. I don't think that it's accurate to say 'it was originally a short story'. It was extended from an idea started in the short story Semley's Ncklace just as before writing The Left Hand of Darkness UKL wrote a short story about Gethen/Winter (Winter's King). The difference was that Rocannon's World had Semley's Necklace as a first chapter or prologue. I agree that it is a less mature work, but it has some wonderful stuff in it. It is full of poetry, suspense, myth and imagination. How can you fail to respond to the death of the Fiannon village? or the humanoid insects? or the price that Rocannon had to pay for mindspeech? And although it is a universe where the male is fully in the driving seat, there are gentle men and strong women in it. Anyone else a fan? Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremiah Savage To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:27 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! Hello Brian and welcome to the group. I too am relatively new here. Ursula has a great list on her Web site about the Ekumen and Earthsea books and what order to read them in. You can get to it here: http://www.ursulakleguin.com/FAQ_Questionnaire5_01.html#EkumenBooks Being a big fan of her Ekumen work (I have only read the first Earthsea book), I might recommend that you read them in a little different order than chronological. Each story in the Ekumen stands on its own and does not require any previous knowledge of other books, in fact there are even some inconsistencies (which she mentions on her site). If you read them in chronological order that means you start with Rocannons World, which in my opinion is one of her worst works. It was originally a short story nd the book does not meld well with the story. Also it was one of her early works, so it is not as well written. Any of her other early works would be a good starting point, like Planet of Exile and City of Illusions. In fact you will often see her first three books in one volume. I'm partial to Word for World is Forest myself (though its really hard to find). Her later works are very different and can be hard to get into because they are so dense (but are very very much worth it). The Disposessed, Left Hand of Darkness and The Telling are all masterpieces of 20th century literature. Hope that helps, and enjoy some of the best writing out there! -jeremiah -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Jeremiah Savage jdms photography and illustration www.jdmsphoto.com Visit Helios' Forsaken, the online multimedia comic book by Jeremiah at www.heliosforsaken.com -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- On Aug 31, 2006, at 3:27 AM, bhackney51@aol.com wrote: > Hi everybody, My name is Brian and I'm new here. My main reason > for joining is to be able talk with you all about about Leguin. As > of yet I have not read alot of her works. I was introduced to her > books by reading the first three Earthsea novels. I'm now in the > middle of Tales From Earthsea and enjoying it very much. I have a > copy of The Other Wind waiting for me when I finish this one. I > hear the Novels of the Ekumen are important to her body of work. I > guess these books can be read in any order. Is this correct or not. > By the way is there any way you can buy new the first three books > individually. In case you were wondering I live in Oregon. I did > get to see Ursula Leguin speak when I was a student at Portland > State University. I hear she still lives in Portland. Well I guess > that's about all for now. I'll send this now in the hopes of > hearing from some of you soon. > > Take it easy > > Brian > __________________________________________________________ > __ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, > email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Sep 02 20:52:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com Received: from n8b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n8b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.175]) by spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id ABB67FA184 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 16:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=lBuSvWltdTk8NS31TpUi5lrYoT0sXY7EgqXCyiwUnrdFo0hn3ziIjdwm60d7MnzeEoZPHlLxxzlz+yHh4LEUrpYV0bhRGB4kCw4ecZaWHULSHqvCyK8QnODK9B8ZJe5b; Received: from [66.163.187.122] by n8.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 23:43:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t3.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 23:43:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 23:43:08 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1534 X-Sender: BHackney51@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1222 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2006 23:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2006 23:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2006 23:32:53 -0000 Received: from BHackney51@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.315.b668376 (48345) for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 19:32:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MBLK-M07 (mblk-m07.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.40]) by ciaaol-m01.mx.aol.com (v112.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM016-bcd944fa149a2a1; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:32:42 -0400 Message-Id: <8C89CFF38D69C34-A98-1E80@MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> Received: from 71.214.76.140 by MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.40) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:32:42 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 19656 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.40 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.157.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: bhackney51@aol.com Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:32:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi There I want to thank you all for writing to me. As the new kid on the block you made me feel welcomed. I have another question to ask you. I see Leguin has written alot of short story collections. What might be the best of them. I know what is good is up to the reader but I was just curious to know some ofyour favorites . Also how do you feel about Alibris being a good source to buy books. I was surfing for some Leguin books and found some good prices there. Brian -----Original Message----- From: hannah@robinscv.eclipse.co.uk To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Hi all Just wanted to say a few words in favour of Rocannon's World. It was the second UKL book that I read - after Wizard of Earthsea - so of course it has the resonance of youth about it for me. I don't think that it's accurate to say 'it was originally a short story'. It was extended from an idea started in the short story Semley's Ncklace just as before writing The Left Hand of Darkness UKL wrote a short story about Gethen/Winter (Winter's King). The difference was that Rocannon's World had Semley's Necklace as a first chapter or prologue. I agree that it is a less mature work, but it has some wonderful stuff in it. It is full of poetry, suspense, myth and imagination. How can you fail to respond to the death of the Fiannon village? or the humanoid insects? or the price that Rocannon had to pay for mindspeech? And although it is a universe where the male is fully in the driving seat, there are gentle men and strong women in it. Anyone else a fan? Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremiah Savage To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:27 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! Hello Brian and welcome to the group. I too am relatively new here. Ursula has a great list on her Web site about the Ekumen and Earthsea books and what order to read them in. You can get to it here: http://www.ursulakleguin.com/FAQ_Questionnaire5_01.html#EkumenBooks Being a big fan of her Ekumen work (I have only read the first Earthsea book), I might recommend that you read them in a little different order than chronological. Each story in the Ekumen stands on its own and does not require any previous knowledge of other books, in fact there are even some inconsistencies (which she mentions on her site). If you read them in chronological order that means you start with Rocannons World, which in my opinion is one of her worst works. It was originally a short story nd the book does not meld well with the story. Also it was one of her early works, so it is not as well written. Any of her other early works would be a good starting point, like Planet of Exile and City of Illusions. In fact you will often see her first three books in one volume. I'm partial to Word for World is Forest myself (though its really hard to find). Her later works are very different and can be hard to get into because they are so dense (but are very very much worth it). The Disposessed, Left Hand of Darkness and The Telling are all masterpieces of 20th century literature. Hope that helps, and enjoy some of the best writing out there! -jeremiah -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Jeremiah Savage jdms photography and illustration www.jdmsphoto.com Visit Helios' Forsaken, the online multimedia comic book by Jeremiah at www.heliosforsaken.com -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- On Aug 31, 2006, at 3:27 AM, bhackney51@aol.com wrote: > Hi everybody, My name is Brian and I'm new here. My main reason > for joining is to be able talk with you all about about Leguin. As > of yet I have not read alot of her works. I was introduced to her > books by reading the first three Earthsea novels. I'm now in the > middle of Tales From Earthsea and enjoying it very much. I have a > copy of The Other Wind waiting for me when I finish this one. I > hear the Novels of the Ekumen are important to her body of work. I > guess these books can be read in any order. Is this correct or not. > By the way is there any way you can buy new the first three books > individually. In case you were wondering I live in Oregon. I did > get to see Ursula Leguin speak when I was a student at Portland > State University. I hear she still lives in Portland. Well I guess > that's about all for now. I'll send this now in the hopes of > hearing from some of you soon. > > Take it easy > > Brian > __________________________________________________________ > __ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, > email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Sep 02 20:52:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com Received: from n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.52]) by spunkymail-mx1.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 64EACFA19F for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 17:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=hk0ZaojqbTJxWscmqLh58/C1+xtt649Mshjy9jfF66qDTOxqkSRW6Wb972difCpomLDSBlUasgfGCRAeokVU0gwHcWY5T7y7Sw+3ydq4qN5DgpQ6WICgB8tK5rzKw4EX; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2006 00:39:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2006 00:39:52 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1535 X-Sender: baleensavage@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15342 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2006 00:34:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2006 00:34:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp103.plus.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.53.28) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2006 00:34:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 75138 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2006 00:34:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.5?) (baleensavage@70.33.210.189 with plain) by smtp103.plus.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2006 00:34:35 -0000 In-Reply-To: <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> X-Priority: 3 Message-Id: <4D5180F5-B40E-424E-97A2-F02CB0EE896F@yahoo.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Originating-IP: 206.190.53.28 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Jeremiah Savage X-Yahoo-Profile: baleensavage Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:34:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps I was a little harsh on Rocannon's World ;). For the record, let me just say that I never met an Ursula book that I didn't like. What I would classify as Ursula's "worst" is still better than most of the other books out there. Even her "normal" teen book Very Far from Anywhere Else is better than many other books in the same genre. In terms of Rocannon's World, I just don't know if it is the best starting place for someone new to the Hainish books. There are so many better books and I'd hate to have a potential fan turned away by Ursula's more brusque, and less refined early writing style. Of course my first introduction to Ursula was Word for World is Forest and it was that writing style that caused me to fall in love with her works... In terms of the story thing, I had forgotten that Left Hand of Darkness began as a story. Actually a lot of books begin with a story and get fleshed out into a novel, which in and of itself is not a bad thing. I just never thought that the "story" part of Rocannon's World meshed with the rest of the novel. I actually loved Semley's Necklace on its own as a story. Of course it's also been a while since I read Rocannon, so maybe I'll just have to pull out my copy and give it another chance ;) It wasn't until the second read that I really began to fall in love with Left Hand of Darkness. -Jeremiah On Sep 2, 2006, at 5:33 AM, Hannah Robins wrote: > Hi all > > Just wanted to say a few words in favour of Rocannon's World. It > was the second UKL book that I read - after Wizard of Earthsea - so > of course it has the resonance of youth about it for me. I don't > think that it's accurate to say 'it was originally a short story'. > It was extended from an idea started in the short story Semley's > Ncklace just as before writing The Left Hand of Darkness UKL wrote > a short story about Gethen/Winter (Winter's King). The difference > was that Rocannon's World had Semley's Necklace as a first chapter > or prologue. > > I agree that it is a less mature work, but it has some wonderful > stuff in it. It is full of poetry, suspense, myth and > imagination. How can you fail to respond to the death of the > Fiannon village? or the humanoid insects? or the price that > Rocannon had to pay for mindspeech? And although it is a universe > where the male is fully in the driving seat, there are gentle men > and strong women in it. > > Anyone else a fan? > > Hannah Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? 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(baleensavage@70.33.210.189 with plain) by smtp107.plus.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2006 00:43:54 -0000 In-Reply-To: <8C89CFF38D69C34-A98-1E80@MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> <8C89CFF38D69C34-A98-1E80@MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com> Message-Id: <0B8278C8-5931-4E5D-B6C7-CD11834FD989@yahoo.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Originating-IP: 206.190.53.32 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Jeremiah Savage X-Yahoo-Profile: baleensavage Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:43:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Brian, Glad to help. I personally have always been partial to Buffalo Gals, if just because it is so different from anything else she has written. It's a fascinating collection of animal-related stories that does not gloss over things like many other animal stories out there. Wind's Twelve Quarters also has a couple Earthsea stories I think. It's been a while since I read that one. As fpr Ailibris, I've never used them. I got some books on ABE books and had mixed results. I think a lot of those online stores depend on which seller you are ordering from. If they have reviews like eBay, I'd pay close attention to them. I usually just try to hit all the used book stores when ever I'm on a trip (I've drained all the ones near me of Ursula books). -Jeremiah On Sep 2, 2006, at 7:32 PM, bhackney51@aol.com wrote: > Hi There > I want to thank you all for writing to me. As the new kid on the > block you made me feel welcomed. I have another question to ask > you. I see Leguin has written alot of short story collections. What > might be the best of them. I know what is good is up to the reader > but I was just curious to know some ofyour favorites . Also how do > you feel about Alibris being a good source to buy books. I was > surfing for some Leguin books and found some good prices there. > Brian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Sep 03 11:24:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx2.dreamhost.com Received: from n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.52]) by spunkymail-mx2.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 79EF7714B5 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 18:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=M0zq8NAt5Z95mmb7gR9Ym2BIA0JmTxGzW47Y3QOtOipl6EXy/Dm8GcrSLxiZcNbXmuGmW/Do8IZaQGVs8P3CLuSKQTz954g+dkC5cDJ8TiP24m8IlG8BuDFohhLbtO75; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2006 01:41:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.35] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2006 01:41:09 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1537 X-Sender: erickaki@pacbell.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35153 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2006 01:38:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2006 01:38:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp112.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.211) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2006 01:38:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 30489 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2006 01:37:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?69.231.136.158?) (erickaki@pacbell.net@69.231.136.158 with plain) by smtp112.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2006 01:37:55 -0000 In-Reply-To: <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> X-Priority: 3 Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Originating-IP: 68.142.198.211 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Eric Adkins X-Yahoo-Profile: erickaki Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 18:38:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hannah, To me Rocannon is a very memorable character. UKL's ultimate observer. This theme sets up almost every other story in terms of the outsider looking in. And how far do you go to better know and understand what is new and different in the region you are exploring. Do you become involved? How can you not in someway. Whether Rocannon's World as a story is flawed or not, it is Rocannon's situation and the set-up as a Ethnographic Surveyor vs. Starlord that connected me to the Hainish books as a whole. I find when I visit new places my mind takes me deeper into the details that leads to better understanding. As opposed to the more familiar critical analysis of what is known local territory. My introduction to the Ekumen books of Left Hand of Darkness and Word for World is Forest were finer stories, but did not introduce the system of travel or communication through the universe that set me up for the whole series. Rocannon felt like the pilot episode of a TV show that had to explained things instead of having just a good story. ,Eric On Sep 2, 2006, at 2:33 AM, Hannah Robins wrote: > Hi all > > Just wanted to say a few words in favour of Rocannon's World. It > was the second UKL book that I read - after Wizard of Earthsea - so > of course it has the resonance of youth about it for me. I don't > think that it's accurate to say 'it was originally a short story'. > It was extended from an idea started in the short story Semley's > Ncklace just as before writing The Left Hand of Darkness UKL wrote > a short story about Gethen/Winter (Winter's King). The difference > was that Rocannon's World had Semley's Necklace as a first chapter > or prologue. > > I agree that it is a less mature work, but it has some wonderful > stuff in it. It is full of poetry, suspense, myth and imagination. > How can you fail to respond to the death of the Fiannon village? or > the humanoid insects? or the price that Rocannon had to pay for > mindspeech? And although it is a universe where the male is fully > in the driving seat, there are gentle men and strong women in it. > > Anyone else a fan? > > Hannah > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Sep 03 11:24:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx2.dreamhost.com Received: from n16.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n16.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.111]) by spunkymail-mx2.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EFC3371471 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n16.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2006 03:09:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2006 03:09:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.98] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2006 03:09:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1538 X-Sender: char@userfriendlytech.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61174 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2006 03:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2006 03:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server304.com) (216.35.196.41) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2006 03:09:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 9250 invoked by uid 502); 3 Sep 2006 03:09:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.108?) (char@24.19.146.177) by ns1.server304.com with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) SMTP; 3 Sep 2006 03:09:33 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8C89CFF38D69C34-A98-1E80@MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> <8C89CFF38D69C34-A98-1E80@MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com> Message-Id: <1157253246.25709.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.1 X-Originating-IP: 216.35.196.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Charlene Osman X-Yahoo-Profile: osmanchar Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 20:14:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not sure I have a favorite collection of short stories by Le Guin, as my favorite short stories are scattered mostly through The Wind's Twelve Quarters (the first of her works I ever read), A Fisherman of the Inland Sea, and The Birthday of the World. Truth is, I've been collecting everything I could find by Le Guin (except Catwings, as I don't have kids) at the local used bookstore, and asking them to look for those they don't usually carry (we're on an island, and don't leave it very often). I've got them all except Gifts, and I reread whichever I feel in the mood for. I don't have personal experience with Alibris, but the folks at the local used bookstore recommended them, and I figure that's a pretty good recommendation since they buy more used books online than most individuals. I've had some trouble buying used from Amazon (so did the bookstore) but that was a couple years ago and a friend tells me they've instituted a feedback process rather like ebay, so you can have a better idea of who you're actually buying from now. I envy you, Brian, that you have so much good reading yet ahead of you; I've already devoured all those wonderful books! I love reading them again, but still there's nothing like finding them for the first time. Oh, a warning--I'd suggest trying to find Tehanu before reading The Other Wind. It takes place right after The Farthest Shore (though, being written much later, is a much more mature writing), while The Other Wind takes place some years after. I read those in order, and can't imagine it any other way; much of The Other Wind depends on Tehanu, to my mind. Enjoy! --Charlene On Sat, 2006-09-02 at 19:32 -0400, bhackney51@aol.com wrote: > Hi There > I want to thank you all for writing to me. As the new kid on the block > you made me feel welcomed. I have another question to ask you. I see > Leguin has written alot of short story collections. What might be the > best of them. I know what is good is up to the reader but I was just > curious to know some ofyour favorites . Also how do you feel about > Alibris being a good source to buy books. I was surfing for some > Leguin books and found some good prices there. > Brian > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hannah@robinscv.eclipse.co.uk > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 2:33 AM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World > > Hi all > > Just wanted to say a few words in favour of Rocannon's World. It was > the second > UKL book that I read - after Wizard of Earthsea - so of course it has > the > resonance of youth about it for me. I don't think that it's accurate > to say 'it > was originally a short story'. It was extended from an idea started in > the > short story Semley's Ncklace just as before writing The Left Hand of > Darkness > UKL wrote a short story about Gethen/Winter (Winter's King). The > difference was > that Rocannon's World had Semley's Necklace as a first chapter or > prologue. > > I agree that it is a less mature work, but it has some wonderful stuff > in it. > It is full of poetry, suspense, myth and imagination. How can you fail > to > respond to the death of the Fiannon village? or the humanoid insects? > or the > price that Rocannon had to pay for mindspeech? And although it is a > universe > where the male is fully in the driving seat, there are gentle men and > strong > women in it. > > Anyone else a fan? > > Hannah > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeremiah Savage > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:27 PM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! > > Hello Brian and welcome to the group. I too am > relatively new here. > > Ursula has a great list on her Web site about the > Ekumen and Earthsea books and what order to read them > in. You can get to it here: > http://www.ursulakleguin.com/FAQ_Questionnaire5_01.html#EkumenBooks > > Being a big fan of her Ekumen work (I have only read > the first Earthsea book), I might recommend that you > read them in a little different order than > chronological. Each story in the Ekumen stands on its > own and does not require any previous knowledge of > other books, in fact there are even some > inconsistencies (which she mentions on her site). If > you read them in chronological order that means you > start with Rocannons World, which in my opinion is one > of her worst works. It was originally a short story nd > the book does not meld well with the story. Also it > was one of her early works, so it is not as well > written. > > Any of her other early works would be a good starting > point, like Planet of Exile and City of Illusions. In > fact you will often see her first three books in one > volume. I'm partial to Word for World is Forest myself > (though its really hard to find). Her later works are > very different and can be hard to get into because > they are so dense (but are very very much worth it). > The Disposessed, Left Hand of Darkness and The Telling > are all masterpieces of 20th century literature. > > Hope that helps, and enjoy some of the best writing out > there! > -jeremiah > > -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- > Jeremiah Savage > jdms photography and illustration > www.jdmsphoto.com > Visit Helios' Forsaken, the online multimedia comic book by Jeremiah > at www.heliosforsaken.com > -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- > > On Aug 31, 2006, at 3:27 AM, bhackney51@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi everybody, My name is Brian and I'm new here. My main reason > > for joining is to be able talk with you all about about Leguin. As > > of yet I have not read alot of her works. I was introduced to her > > books by reading the first three Earthsea novels. I'm now in the > > middle of Tales From Earthsea and enjoying it very much. I have a > > copy of The Other Wind waiting for me when I finish this one. I > > hear the Novels of the Ekumen are important to her body of work. I > > guess these books can be read in any order. Is this correct or not. > > By the way is there any way you can buy new the first three books > > individually. In case you were wondering I live in Oregon. I did > > get to see Ursula Leguin speak when I was a student at Portland > > State University. I hear she still lives in Portland. Well I guess > > that's about all for now. I'll send this now in the hopes of > > hearing from some of you soon. > > > > Take it easy > > > > Brian > > __________________________________________________________ > > __ > > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, > > email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > __________________________________________________________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email > and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Sep 03 11:24:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com Received: from n14a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n14a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.28]) by spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5283419A003 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Tbqrmh3+VNKMRZ2oMNZ2worePNERybwy9Ock4jdWPbQ+FqoYoIOYQQk2Zp93/GtkBVGoyn/JnWKGEXOKEOj1DaSqiBB77LVWc/+dWV1v5IPbJcxjayaV4LkQ4XDwYfSB; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n14.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2006 05:45:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.93] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2006 05:45:58 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1539 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74076 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2006 05:45:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2006 05:45:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2006 05:45:56 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.c18.345b783 (58677) for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 01:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6108 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 01:45:51 EDT Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I too want to speak up for Rocannon's World. It's the book that has those wonderful flying cats that Rocannon rides on to visit "his" world. That image alone makes the book very worthwhile reading in my opinion. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Sep 05 16:19:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx5.dreamhost.com Received: from n18b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n18b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.185]) by spunkymail-mx5.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 37F5940865 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 17:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Lts57Ca9kqL7WiOdWNvL7w/0O7yRFhXRi2NHsKzdHDX+RVp3wPHIYRadFxCew9AxcL4dAeZrZREBzJ6QX1ro+/5WqD+RfEk7AyYA/dXVj60ovMN8efAHd4Nfd9jF/JP8; Received: from [66.163.187.122] by n18.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 00:24:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 00:24:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.97] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 00:24:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1540 X-Sender: BHackney51@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18849 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2006 00:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2006 00:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2006 00:23:28 -0000 Received: from BHackney51@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.c00.3578384 (48369) for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 20:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MBLK-M21 (mblk-m21.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.54]) by ciaaol-r02.mx.aol.com (v112.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLR026-bcf144fb71fa2a7; Sun, 03 Sep 2006 20:23:22 -0400 Message-Id: <8C89DCF767D6348-159C-5A12@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> <8C89CFF38D69C34-A98-1E80@MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com> <0B8278C8-5931-4E5D-B6C7-CD11834FD989@yahoo.com> Received: from 71.214.76.140 by MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.54) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 03 Sep 2006 20:23:21 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <0B8278C8-5931-4E5D-B6C7-CD11834FD989@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 19656 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.54 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: bhackney51@aol.com Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 20:23:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My special thanks to Jeremiah for letting me in on his favorite story collection. I'll keep Buffalo Gals in mind. I just purchased her new collection of stories called Changing Planes. It looks to be very inventive and fun. Say is the book The Word for World Is Forest hard to find. I kind of think it is. Would anyone know where I could get a copy. I went on Alibris and bought a used hard copy of the first three Hannish novels. I can't wait to start reading them when they arrive. I want you all to know that it does my heart good to read your letters. I think I was starving for some book talk. Well I best be on my way. Take care until next time. Brian -----Original Message----- From: baleensavage@yahoo.com To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Hi Brian, Glad to help. I personally have always been partial to Buffalo Gals, if just because it is so different from anything else she has written. It's a fascinating collection of animal-related stories that does not gloss over things like many other animal stories out there. Wind's Twelve Quarters also has a couple Earthsea stories I think. It's been a while since I read that one. As fpr Ailibris, I've never used them. I got some books on ABE books and had mixed results. I think a lot of those online stores depend on which seller you are ordering from. If they have reviews like eBay, I'd pay close attention to them. I usually just try to hit all the used book stores when ever I'm on a trip (I've drained all the ones near me of Ursula books). -Jeremiah On Sep 2, 2006, at 7:32 PM, bhackney51@aol.com wrote: > Hi There > I want to thank you all for writing to me. As the new kid on the > block you made me feel welcomed. I have another question to ask > you. I see Leguin has written alot of short story collections. What > might be the best of them. I know what is good is up to the reader > but I was just curious to know some ofyour favorites . Also how do > you feel about Alibris being a good source to buy books. I was > surfing for some Leguin books and found some good prices there. > Brian Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Sep 05 16:19:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx2.dreamhost.com Received: from n10a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n10a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.153]) by spunkymail-mx2.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C33296F66B for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 17:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=l51NgumW3ARURuBpeLMXHEsasdwGHbzXiVwpywW/ndA8UC/ucGuMBX863WaWatdpY2Qh4xGCmnXSHHMya/NneGHcXMAtDcv6MEnNsJ6ZvgPaG59/aCQGkTwRNaeu09pS; Received: from [66.163.187.122] by n10.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 00:54:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 00:54:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.93] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 00:54:08 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1541 X-Sender: BHackney51@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67795 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2006 00:54:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2006 00:54:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2006 00:54:07 -0000 Received: from BHackney51@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.526.7138ccf (60476) for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 20:54:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MBLK-M21 (mblk-m21.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.54]) by ciaaol-m04.mx.aol.com (v112.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM041-ec3c44fb79293c1; Sun, 03 Sep 2006 20:54:02 -0400 Message-Id: <8C89DD3BF295A9E-159C-5B90@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> <8C89CFF38D69C34-A98-1E80@MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com> <1157253246.25709.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Received: from 71.214.76.140 by MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.54) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 03 Sep 2006 20:54:01 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <1157253246.25709.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 19656 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.54 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.157.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: bhackney51@aol.com Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 20:54:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you Charlene for your friendly advice. I see her short stories have been published in attractive covers. A Fisherman of the Inland Sea seems to be a good collection. At least what I've read online it is. I think i'll take your advice and read Tehanu again before reading The Other Wind. It wouldn't hurt to have a refresher. Say didn't you like Leguins' introduction to Tales From Earthsea. It was awfully insightful. I especially liked what she said about imaginary lands giving readers stability in these swiftly changing times. Well I'll leave you now in the hopes of hearing from you again. Brian -----Original Message----- From: char@userfriendlytech.net To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World I'm not sure I have a favorite collection of short stories by Le Guin, as my favorite short stories are scattered mostly through The Wind's Twelve Quarters (the first of her works I ever read), A Fisherman of the Inland Sea, and The Birthday of the World. Truth is, I've been collecting everything I could find by Le Guin (except Catwings, as I don't have kids) at the local used bookstore, and asking them to look for those they don't usually carry (we're on an island, and don't leave it very often). I've got them all except Gifts, and I reread whichever I feel in the mood for. I don't have personal experience with Alibris, but the folks at the local used bookstore recommended them, and I figure that's a pretty good recommendation since they buy more used books online than most individuals. I've had some trouble buying used from Amazon (so did the bookstore) but that was a couple years ago and a friend tells me they've instituted a feedback process rather like ebay, so you can have a better idea of who you're actually buying from now. I envy you, Brian, that you have so much good reading yet ahead of you; I've already devoured all those wonderful books! I love reading them again, but still there's nothing like finding them for the first time. Oh, a warning--I'd suggest trying to find Tehanu before reading The Other Wind. It takes place right after The Farthest Shore (though, being written much later, is a much more mature writing), while The Other Wind takes place some years after. I read those in order, and can't imagine it any other way; much of The Other Wind depends on Tehanu, to my mind. Enjoy! --Charlene On Sat, 2006-09-02 at 19:32 -0400, bhackney51@aol.com wrote: > Hi There > I want to thank you all for writing to me. As the new kid on the block > you made me feel welcomed. I have another question to ask you. I see > Leguin has written alot of short story collections. What might be the > best of them. I know what is good is up to the reader but I was just > curious to know some ofyour favorites . Also how do you feel about > Alibris being a good source to buy books. I was surfing for some > Leguin books and found some good prices there. > Brian > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hannah@robinscv.eclipse.co.uk > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 2:33 AM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World > > Hi all > > Just wanted to say a few words in favour of Rocannon's World. It was > the second > UKL book that I read - after Wizard of Earthsea - so of course it has > the > resonance of youth about it for me. I don't think that it's accurate > to say 'it > was originally a short story'. It was extended from an idea started in > the > short story Semley's Ncklace just as before writing The Left Hand of > Darkness > UKL wrote a short story about Gethen/Winter (Winter's King). The > difference was > that Rocannon's World had Semley's Necklace as a first chapter or > prologue. > > I agree that it is a less mature work, but it has some wonderful stuff > in it. > It is full of poetry, suspense, myth and imagination. How can you fail > to > respond to the death of the Fiannon village? or the humanoid insects? > or the > price that Rocannon had to pay for mindspeech? And although it is a > universe > where the male is fully in the driving seat, there are gentle men and > strong > women in it. > > Anyone else a fan? > > Hannah > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeremiah Savage > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:27 PM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! > > Hello Brian and welcome to the group. I too am > relatively new here. > > Ursula has a great list on her Web site about the > Ekumen and Earthsea books and what order to read them > in. You can get to it here: > http://www.ursulakleguin.com/FAQ_Questionnaire5_01.html#EkumenBooks > > Being a big fan of her Ekumen work (I have only read > the first Earthsea book), I might recommend that you > read them in a little different order than > chronological. Each story in the Ekumen stands on its > own and does not require any previous knowledge of > other books, in fact there are even some > inconsistencies (which she mentions on her site). If > you read them in chronological order that means you > start with Rocannons World, which in my opinion is one > of her worst works. It was originally a short story nd > the book does not meld well with the story. Also it > was one of her early works, so it is not as well > written. > > Any of her other early works would be a good starting > point, like Planet of Exile and City of Illusions. In > fact you will often see her first three books in one > volume. I'm partial to Word for World is Forest myself > (though its really hard to find). Her later works are > very different and can be hard to get into because > they are so dense (but are very very much worth it). > The Disposessed, Left Hand of Darkness and The Telling > are all masterpieces of 20th century literature. > > Hope that helps, and enjoy some of the best writing out > there! > -jeremiah > > -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- > Jeremiah Savage > jdms photography and illustration > www.jdmsphoto.com > Visit Helios' Forsaken, the online multimedia comic book by Jeremiah > at www.heliosforsaken.com > -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- > > On Aug 31, 2006, at 3:27 AM, bhackney51@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi everybody, My name is Brian and I'm new here. My main reason > > for joining is to be able talk with you all about about Leguin. As > > of yet I have not read alot of her works. I was introduced to her > > books by reading the first three Earthsea novels. I'm now in the > > middle of Tales From Earthsea and enjoying it very much. I have a > > copy of The Other Wind waiting for me when I finish this one. I > > hear the Novels of the Ekumen are important to her body of work. I > > guess these books can be read in any order. Is this correct or not. > > By the way is there any way you can buy new the first three books > > individually. In case you were wondering I live in Oregon. I did > > get to see Ursula Leguin speak when I was a student at Portland > > State University. I hear she still lives in Portland. Well I guess > > that's about all for now. I'll send this now in the hopes of > > hearing from some of you soon. > > > > Take it easy > > > > Brian > > __________________________________________________________ > > __ > > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, > > email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > __________________________________________________________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email > and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Sep 05 16:20:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx3.dreamhost.com Received: from n19a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n19a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.48]) by spunkymail-mx3.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BC1068D116 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 22:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=af5bOuL3Ma4tTLOugMjLFbnRHtAU83hswU8etYALOZKGQt1g6/KerBv3ayVGxHv6gxH9t2pYXN6Dfj6EzA5aWCiHaoRIISQQMz//+vic5/8SA9WdSXdmff9+U8loFsGE; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 05:22:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.94] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 05:22:58 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1542 X-Sender: anilyilmaz@karatahta.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11919 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2006 05:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2006 05:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2006 05:21:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 05:20:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 05:20:32 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4D5180F5-B40E-424E-97A2-F02CB0EE896F@yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.48 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 88.233.46.200 From: "Anil Yilmaz" X-Yahoo-Profile: anilyilmaz2001 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 05:20:30 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, Jeremiah Savage wrote: > > Perhaps I was a little harsh on Rocannon's World ;). For the record, > > In terms of Rocannon's World, I just don't know if it is the best > starting place for someone new to the Hainish books. There are so > many better books and I'd hate to have a potential fan turned away by > Ursula's more brusque, and less refined early writing style. Of > course my first introduction to Ursula was Word for World is Forest > and it was that writing style that caused me to fall in love with her > works... > Hi, Rocannon's World may or may not be the best book for a start to Hainish books but in my opinion, it is one of the best books you can ever choose if you have a friend you want to convert into a sci-fi addict in general. I have won two of my friends (and my wife) to sci-fi side of literature by just lending them Rocannon to read. Left Hand of Darkness or The Dispossessed are both magnificient creations but they are a bit harsh on people who has not used to UKL's style or depth of thought (ambiguity etc.) Rocannon's World is a soft transition to sci-fi with its poetic tone and really touching story. BTW, publication of The Dispossessed in 1990 is a milestone in my countries(Turkey) literary history. Its anarchic theme made it into an hit among left wing intellectuals and their (then) strong influence on literary circles made sci-fi a respected genre for a while and gained a strong readerbase that lasts to this day. All the sci-fi and fantasy books (including Lord of the Rings to Harry Potter) printed since owes UKL, The Dispossessed and the publisher Metis a lot. Anil Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Sep 05 16:21:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com Received: from n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.54]) by spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CD831199FD0 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 19:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=aEJNEvq/+vouIvXk4xYaxS4Mexzqpoh8PG8cZFBVqwLlCBK3Riuw77T0x1DXZmEOUEbNrDFILqv20kVquXFCYh4cKIYdrm4m2Jb02sI0vq/Sd0PYLQ1sj2K4OVsdzD9D; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Sep 2006 02:35:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.61] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Sep 2006 02:35:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1545 Received: (qmail 64159 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2006 02:35:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2006 02:35:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Sep 2006 02:35:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Sep 2006 02:35:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Sep 2006 02:35:07 -0000 X-Sender: jenglo@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10521 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2006 08:08:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2006 08:08:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.229) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2006 08:08:45 -0000 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s11so2264262wxc for ; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.113.18 with SMTP id l18mr1051996agc; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.105.17 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 01:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <654cfde80609040107u61975111ld6c4f99c2af772ff@mail.gmail.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <4D5180F5-B40E-424E-97A2-F02CB0EE896F@yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.229 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Jenny Gal Or" X-Yahoo-Profile: the_galors1 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 05 Sep 2006 02:35:06 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 09:07:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, in my opinion the singular best short story I ever read by Le Guin is 'Newton's Sleep'. It's so so smart, and really beautiful. I read it years ago but it stays in your head, as does 'the Ones Who Walked Away from Omelas'. Jenny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Sep 05 16:21:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com Received: from n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.25]) by spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 347EC1992E3 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=sSIN2GZVOiyi0N+mVQVgEZaSwgceoGT+a1G3yuVCmMUWNCMVUdye9C5M54CSxwaa42N5Gmi4vRAMVGglJPVaUOb84peZR3jlqcOkop9F9ykzmVUhiWqhTrz6hfMusIv2; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 22:08:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 22:08:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1543 X-Sender: hannah@robinscv.eclipse.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91067 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2006 22:06:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2006 22:06:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mra02.ch.as12513.net) (82.153.254.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2006 22:06:04 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mra02.ch.as12513.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE83D4642 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 23:05:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from mra02.ch.as12513.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mra02.ch.as12513.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 22133-01-60 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 23:05:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from robins5e38f426 (unknown [82.152.200.37]) by mra02.ch.as12513.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 01F44D44C4 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 23:05:56 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <001e01c6d06e$518d6a00$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> To: References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> <8C89CFF38D69C34-A98-1E80@MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com> <0B8278C8-5931-4E5D-B6C7-CD11834FD989@yahoo.com> <8C89DCF767D6348-159C-5A12@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: by Eclipse VIRUSshield at eclipse.net.uk X-Originating-IP: 82.153.254.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Hannah Robins" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 23:06:05 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if you want a modern collection then Birthday of the World is really good - my 21 year old daughter went a bundle on it otherwise offer winds 12 quarters as excellent classic stuff and compass rose has some excellent stories changing planes less good for me though grateful for some past help from community members on the interpretation when I got confused about when it was serious when making fun - humour is always difficult to translate across countries even when a common language is shared however like this quip I just found in UKL's Steering the Craft which I am working through on Judy's excellent advice: 'Teachers trying to get school kids to write clearly, and journalists with their weird rules of writing, have filled a lot of heads with the notion that the only good sentence is a short sentence. This is true for convicted criminals.' (A pune or play on words as Terry Pratchett has it) Hannah (UK) ----- Original Message ----- From: bhackney51@aol.com To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World My special thanks to Jeremiah for letting me in on his favorite story collection. I'll keep Buffalo Gals in mind. I just purchased her new collection of stories called Changing Planes. It looks to be very inventive and fun. Say is the book The Word for World Is Forest hard to find. I kind of think it is. Would anyone know where I could get a copy. I went on Alibris and bought a used hard copy of the first three Hannish novels. I can't wait to start reading them when they arrive. I want you all to know that it does my heart good to read your letters. I think I was starving for some book talk. Well I best be on my way. Take care until next time. Brian -----Original Message----- From: baleensavage@yahoo.com To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Hi Brian, Glad to help. I personally have always been partial to Buffalo Gals, if just because it is so different from anything else she has written. It's a fascinating collection of animal-related stories that does not gloss over things like many other animal stories out there. Wind's Twelve Quarters also has a couple Earthsea stories I think. It's been a while since I read that one. As fpr Ailibris, I've never used them. I got some books on ABE books and had mixed results. I think a lot of those online stores depend on which seller you are ordering from. If they have reviews like eBay, I'd pay close attention to them. I usually just try to hit all the used book stores when ever I'm on a trip (I've drained all the ones near me of Ursula books). -Jeremiah On Sep 2, 2006, at 7:32 PM, bhackney51@aol.com wrote: > Hi There > I want to thank you all for writing to me. As the new kid on the > block you made me feel welcomed. I have another question to ask > you. I see Leguin has written alot of short story collections. What > might be the best of them. I know what is good is up to the reader > but I was just curious to know some ofyour favorites . Also how do > you feel about Alibris being a good source to buy books. I was > surfing for some Leguin books and found some good prices there. > Brian Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Sep 05 16:21:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com Received: from n11a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com (n11a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.187.154]) by spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BE33719A05E for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 16:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=OkcEi+Kjm5qqW/8LQvsCqXol/wQh5KTEImYK2UcdPRaJzvBOz7GYkAaaG3SLCOpEGROKko+ih7/nQP7rORET3L1eY/HI+ZN76g3rMCZOWiyf4a9o7tYMkksCo9mVPQkA; Received: from [66.163.187.121] by n11.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 23:08:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 23:08:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Sep 2006 23:08:04 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1544 X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16112 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2006 23:08:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2006 23:08:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2006 23:08:03 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1GKNXs-0003O3-En for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 19:08:00 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20060904230800.GC22873@ccil.org> References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> <8C89CFF38D69C34-A98-1E80@MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com> <0B8278C8-5931-4E5D-B6C7-CD11834FD989@yahoo.com> <8C89DCF767D6348-159C-5A12@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> <001e01c6d06e$518d6a00$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> In-Reply-To: <001e01c6d06e$518d6a00$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 19:08:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hannah Robins scripsit: > changing planes less good for me though grateful for some past help > from community members on the interpretation when I got confused about > when it was serious when making fun - humour is always difficult to > translate across countries even when a common language is shared Oh yes. After five years working for Reuters America I found that figuring out when Brits are being funny (or serious) is the hardest single thing. Vocabulary, accents, etc. are trivial by comparison. OT: While poking around for a proper citation for Shaw's quip about England (i.e. the U.K.) and America being two countries divided by their common language, I found this on North vs. South Korean: http://kerrycollison.net/index.php?/archives/3209-Koreas-Divided-by-a-common-language.html -- John Cowan http://ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org 'My young friend, if you do not now, immediately and instantly, pull as hard as ever you can, it is my opinion that your acquaintance in the large-pattern leather ulster' (and by this he meant the Crocodile) 'will jerk you into yonder limpid stream before you can say Jack Robinson.' --the Bi-Coloured-Python-Rock-Snake Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Sep 07 12:34:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com Received: from n17a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n17a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.46]) by spunkymail-mx4.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EF81A19A004 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 21:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=BlCqMHefMjnoHS5+93ZEW0VeQf7szpSFRsbMOx2wWxGzRZc+Prs2fWaHRUN0+3e6ypHvrTdYS2C8fnXP3Ya8IOiaZ3wyk3xub+ucgZMP5yzpPsWUOUpnpSMsnM9I1eNH; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Sep 2006 04:05:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.36] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Sep 2006 04:05:48 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1546 X-Sender: rubykaye@nyc.rr.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41923 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2006 04:00:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2006 04:00:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com) (24.29.109.7) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Sep 2006 04:00:09 -0000 Received: from Kathleen.nyc.rr.com (cpe-66-108-187-41.nyc.res.rr.com [66.108.187.41]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k862wnDr016561 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060905224706.01dd9830@nyc.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001e01c6d06e$518d6a00$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> References: <8C89AE61C642F06-4F0-69CF@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> <001701c6ce72$e3cdd970$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> <8C89CFF38D69C34-A98-1E80@MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com> <0B8278C8-5931-4E5D-B6C7-CD11834FD989@yahoo.com> <8C89DCF767D6348-159C-5A12@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> <001e01c6d06e$518d6a00$0500a8c0@robins5e38f426> X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Originating-IP: 24.29.109.7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Kathleen M." X-Yahoo-Profile: rubykaye Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 22:58:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World - UKL stories Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Birthday of the World is really extraordinary, but about half of the stories refer to cultures in planets that have been previously explored, so it's hard for me to know if someone reading it without that reference would enjoy it as much as I did. Something that I found interesting about the collection is that almost every story deals rather directly with the sexuality of the people of the story. LeGuin never avoids the subject in any of her stories, so it inevitably comes up regularly, but these stories seem to be strongly focused on it. One of the things that I appreciate the most about UKL's skill is her artistry with the short story. I haven't made it a habit to regularly read short stories, but LeGuin has produced some of the most complete and memorable I've run across. Many of them are just as rich as a good novel, with complex characters clearly drawn and complicated stories completely told. And while we're talking about short stories, don't forget Four Ways to Forgiveness, which is actually four novellas, but each of them is a jewel. There is a fifth story from the world of Werel told in Birthday of the World - I think the name is Old Music and the Slave Women. This is what I mean when I say that this later collection is so much more satisfying when you come to it from the earlier work. But it's all good. This discussion of Rocannon's World reminds me that I haven't read it for close to 10 years, so it's time to bring the Three Hainish Novels out again. I think I've read them twice, but I'm up for another round. Kathleen At 06:06 PM 9/4/2006, you wrote: >if you want a modern collection then Birthday of the World is really >good - my 21 year old daughter went a bundle on it >otherwise offer winds 12 quarters as excellent classic stuff and >compass rose has some excellent stories >changing planes less good for me though grateful for some past help >from community members on the interpretation when I got confused >about when it was serious when making fun - humour is always >difficult to translate across countries even when a common language is shared >however like this quip I just found in UKL's Steering the Craft >which I am working through on Judy's excellent advice: >'Teachers trying to get school kids to write clearly, and >journalists with their weird rules of writing, have filled a lot of >heads with the notion that the only good sentence is a short sentence. >This is true for convicted criminals.' >(A pune or play on words as Terry Pratchett has it) >Hannah (UK) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bhackney51@aol.com > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:23 AM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World > > > My special thanks to Jeremiah for letting me in on his favorite > story collection. I'll keep Buffalo Gals in mind. I just purchased > her new collection of stories called Changing Planes. It looks to > be very inventive and fun. Say is the book The Word for World Is > Forest hard to find. I kind of think it is. Would anyone know where > I could get a copy. I went on Alibris and bought a used hard copy > of the first three Hannish novels. I can't wait to start reading > them when they arrive. I want you all to know that it does my heart > good to read your letters. I think I was starving for some book > talk. Well I best be on my way. Take care until next time. > Brian > > > -----Original Message----- > From: baleensavage@yahoo.com > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 5:43 PM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi Everybody! - Rocannon's World > > Hi Brian, > Glad to help. I personally have always been partial to Buffalo Gals, > if just because it is so different from anything else she has > written. It's a fascinating collection of animal-related stories that > does not gloss over things like many other animal stories out there. > Wind's Twelve Quarters also has a couple Earthsea stories I think. > It's been a while since I read that one. > > As fpr Ailibris, I've never used them. I got some books on ABE books > and had mixed results. I think a lot of those online stores depend on > which seller you are ordering from. If they have reviews like eBay, > I'd pay close attention to them. I usually just try to hit all the > used book stores when ever I'm on a trip (I've drained all the ones > near me of Ursula books). > -Jeremiah > On Sep 2, 2006, at 7:32 PM, bhackney51@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi There > > I want to thank you all for writing to me. As the new kid on the > > block you made me feel welcomed. I have another question to ask > > you. I see Leguin has written alot of short story collections. What > > might be the best of them. I know what is good is up to the reader > > but I was just curious to know some ofyour favorites . Also how do > > you feel about Alibris being a good source to buy books. I was > > surfing for some Leguin books and found some good prices there. > > Brian > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > __________________________________________________________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, > email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Oct 23 11:41:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lq2@lquilter.net Delivered-To: m2207311@spunkymail-mx7.dreamhost.com Received: from n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com [66.94.237.55]) by spunkymail-mx7.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BE6CCAFF4 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=I+s1O/z3zx/j8A6FXOW1C2NIfoUmDKrb0Pt+rphb7M9WL8oF1BEAEp6sp4olCGQBAMsHhtR8EUJyS7Zk3LF1RT0dfQjI9oYz5bF3cxeZJVtU8X1TvILtDEodXHC32HT0; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2006 02:27:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2006 02:27:24 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 2266408-m1547 Received: (qmail 6342 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2006 02:26:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2006 02:26:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2006 02:26:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2006 02:25:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2006 02:25:37 -0000 X-Sender: sdeya@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73126 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2006 00:35:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2006 00:35:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2006 00:35:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2006 00:35:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2006 00:35:02 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.26 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 24.232.188.183 From: "sdeya" X-Yahoo-Profile: sdeya X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 23 Oct 2006 02:25:37 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:35:01 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Question Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:groups-email-trad Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit who know about the first car of Ursula? I need some info. Thanks a lot Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:the-ekumen-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:the-ekumen-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/