From ???@??? Tue Jan 04 12:15:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.38]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2005 23:08:35 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2005 22:44:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.198] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2005 22:44:13 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71327 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2005 22:44:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2005 22:44:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2005 22:44:12 -0000 Received: from du-040-0086.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.86] helo=oemcomputer) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Clavr-000E69-H3 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 03 Jan 2005 22:44:11 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c4f1e5$bcf38fe0$56749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.141 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:25:59 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] "Only connect" - it was Orsinia, Earthsea, the Ekumen, and even the Kesh Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'Le Guin's "only connect" takes place in the darkness, in the space > between separated people. It's much more abstract and mystical and > anthropological and concrete and physical than Forster's class-based > separations. It's also visceral -- Tenar and Ged in the labyrinth, > Shevek and the dead man in the cellar in The Dispossessed, and many > many more sacrifices in her stories.' Yes, I think that is an excellent poetic description of one of UKL's recurring themes - 'the space between separated people' - thanks Jim. For example one of her early stories about the survivor of a clone, (Nine Lives). And Shevek's description to his friends of being with the burned man who died and making the connection between brotherhood and shared pain. '(Have another look at Forster, Hannah -- his prose is delicious and > wonderful.)' When my women's book club read 'Room with a view' which I adored at 14 we all found it mannered and dated - concerned with past shibboleths and deceptions. After all Forster himself was obliged to conceal the fact that he was gay which I didn't realise till I was older. I studied 'Where Angel's fear to Tread' at school which I found deeply romantic, and remember his passage about the wonder of the Italians at the expense of the sisterhood of women - not at that age seeing that Forster did not himself feel the heterosexual passions he aims to describe which is perhaps why I find him a bit disappointing now. I've never read 'Maurice' perhaps I should try that to follow up your recommendation. A piece of prose I do remember is the description of the music in 'Howard's End'. 'I just wish that the SciFi Channel could have found some filmmakers > who could have done with Earthsea, what Merchant-Ivory did with A Room > With a View and with Howard's End and what David Lean did with A > Passage to India. sigh.' Yes I have enjoyed the Merchant-Ivory interpretations although I know some consider them a bit over sugared and twee in comparison with the books. They were a good way to introduce my daughters to Forster, and we also all enjoyed a good audio production of Passage to India on holiday a couple of years ago where I was able to see nuances I had missed in my teens. To get back on topic here perhaps is another parallel between Forster and UKL in dealing with complex social issues from an individual and a societal point of view, such as the Raj in P t I and Malafrena or Urras/Anarres. Hannah Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jan 07 11:55:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.46]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2005 08:39:46 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jan 2005 16:39:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.95] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jan 2005 16:39:47 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86832 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2005 16:32:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2005 16:32:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratanakiri.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.37) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2005 16:32:31 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (ratanakiri [65.246.141.37]) by ratanakiri.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id j07GWT8b006849 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:32:29 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:32:37 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20050107163237.GY4957@skunk.reutershealth.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.246.141.37 X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:32:37 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] An essay on Le Guin, _Orsinian Tales_, and the root of the matter Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues/16/bittner16art.htm I don't know James Bittner, but he clearly gets it. Very much recommended. -- The experiences of the past show John Cowan that there has always been a discrepancy jcowan@reutershealth.com between plans and performance. http://www.reutershealth.com --Emperor Hirohito, August 1945 http://www.ccil.org/~cowan ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 09 13:38:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.45]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2005 07:31:10 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2005 11:16:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.193] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2005 11:16:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 618 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2005 11:16:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2005 11:16:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2005 11:16:43 -0000 Received: from du-040-0077.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.77] helo=oemcomputer) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1CnEaE-0004Zb-H7 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 08 Jan 2005 11:16:38 +0000 Message-ID: <002301c4f573$87f15200$4d749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <20050107163237.GY4957@skunk.reutershealth.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.141 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:16:41 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] An essay on Le Guin, _Orsinian Tales_, and the root of the matter Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Really really excellent read John, thank you. I shall return and reread it there is so much good there and the end evoked some of the emotion that UKL's own writing does. Clearly written some time ago, as it does not cover the more recent works and refers to Earthsea as a trilogy. I did a search on Google for James Bittner Le Guin and got 817 hits which I will follow up when I have time Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Cowan" To: Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:32 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] An essay on Le Guin, _Orsinian Tales_, and the root of the matter > > http://www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues/16/bittner16art.htm > > I don't know James Bittner, but he clearly gets it. Very much recommended. > > > -- > The experiences of the past show John Cowan > that there has always been a discrepancy jcowan@reutershealth.com > between plans and performance. http://www.reutershealth.com > --Emperor Hirohito, August 1945 http://www.ccil.org/~cowan > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 09 13:39:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2005 08:16:09 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2005 16:16:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2005 16:16:10 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55748 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2005 16:16:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2005 16:16:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out007.verizon.net) (206.46.170.107) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2005 16:16:08 -0000 Received: from Zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.103.151]) by out007.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20050108161545.WIKL21228.out007.verizon.net@Zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2005 10:15:45 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050108110338.02143a70@incoming.verizon.net> X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <002301c4f573$87f15200$4d749ed9@oemcomputer> References: <20050107163237.GY4957@skunk.reutershealth.com> X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out007.verizon.net from [64.222.103.151] at Sat, 8 Jan 2005 10:15:44 -0600 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.46.170.107 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 11:16:00 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: An essay on Le Guin, _Orsinian Tales_, and the root of the matter Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2005-01-08, Hannah wrote, in response to John Cowan: >Clearly written some time ago, as it does not cover the more recent works >and refers to Earthsea as a trilogy. I did a search on Google for James >Bittner Le Guin and got 817 hits which I will follow up when I have time [Janice looks both ways in suspicion that something weird is going on] Am I the only one who received the messages from James Bittner that were sent to this very group? And not two weeks ago even? He's here, people. And he uploaded a series of web links to the "Files" of The-Ekumen group. Thank you, Jim. I have gotten about halfway through your *Orsinian Tales* essay, and am enjoying it immensely. I am especially intrigued by your distinction of the aesthetic and historical perspectives of Le Guin's fiction. More on that later, perhaps. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Ensemble Al Kindi & Sheikh Habboush -- Aleppian Sufi Trance "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 09 13:39:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2005 08:30:28 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2005 16:30:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2005 16:30:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84075 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2005 16:30:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2005 16:30:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratanakiri.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.37) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2005 16:30:28 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (ratanakiri [65.246.141.37]) by ratanakiri.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id j08GUQiD013698 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:30:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:30:32 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20050108163032.GA19306@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: <20050107163237.GY4957@skunk.reutershealth.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050108110338.02143a70@incoming.verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050108110338.02143a70@incoming.verizon.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.246.141.37 X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:30:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: An essay on Le Guin, _Orsinian Tales_, and the root of the matter Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Janice E. Dawley scripsit: > Am I the only one who received the messages from James Bittner that were > sent to this very group? And not two weeks ago even? He's here, people. And > he uploaded a series of web links to the "Files" of The-Ekumen group. Sorry, I missed that (I don't always note the names of message authors). Anyhow, I meant what I said and I said what I meant (an Elephant's faithful, 100%!) -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com Be yourself. Especially do not feign a working knowledge of RDF where no such knowledge exists. Neither be cynical about RELAX NG; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment in the world of markup, James Clark is as perennial as the grass. --DeXiderata, Sean McGrath ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 09 13:39:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.35]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2005 10:22:55 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2005 18:22:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2005 18:22:57 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52176 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2005 18:22:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2005 18:22:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2005 18:22:56 -0000 Received: from du-040-0140.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.140] helo=oemcomputer) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1CnLEl-00076J-EP for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 08 Jan 2005 18:22:55 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c4f5af$150d6da0$8c749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <20050107163237.GY4957@skunk.reutershealth.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050108110338.02143a70@incoming.verizon.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.143 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 16:43:59 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: An essay on Le Guin, _Orsinian Tales_, and the root of the matter Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Silly me - even had a discussion with him on E M Forster! clearly need to 'only connect' myself! I also missed the fact that it had November 1978 written at the top of the article. Clearly need to go and wash my mind out. Will go and look at those links now Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janice E. Dawley" To: Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 4:16 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: An essay on Le Guin, _Orsinian Tales_, and the root of the matter > > On 2005-01-08, Hannah wrote, in response to John Cowan: > >Clearly written some time ago, as it does not cover the more recent works > >and refers to Earthsea as a trilogy. I did a search on Google for James > >Bittner Le Guin and got 817 hits which I will follow up when I have time > > [Janice looks both ways in suspicion that something weird is going on] > > Am I the only one who received the messages from James Bittner that were > sent to this very group? And not two weeks ago even? He's here, people. And > he uploaded a series of web links to the "Files" of The-Ekumen group. > > Thank you, Jim. I have gotten about halfway through your *Orsinian Tales* > essay, and am enjoying it immensely. I am especially intrigued by your > distinction of the aesthetic and historical perspectives of Le Guin's > fiction. More on that later, perhaps. > > ----- > Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT > http://therem.net/ > Listening to: Ensemble Al Kindi & Sheikh Habboush -- Aleppian Sufi Trance > "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, > with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 09 13:45:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.20]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 07:35:01 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2005 15:35:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.95] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2005 15:35:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5797 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2005 15:35:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2005 15:35:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2005 15:35:00 -0000 Received: from du-040-0183.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.183] helo=oemcomputer) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1Cnf5l-000DMd-Gy for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 09 Jan 2005 15:34:58 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c4f660$cc1a8580$b7749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.141 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:35:06 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Resources on the WWW Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What a rich resource you've given us here Jim! I now have to battle the desire to spend all my time trawling through these instead of getting on with life - though I've yet to find something as excellent as the link John Cowan gave to your 1978 paper (and having searched for you and Le Guin I have found that you have written much more about her! books even! will have to see if I can get hold of some). Anyway, one of the joys of exploring others' writing is, as well as seeingthose things you agree with (how true! you murmur) you find things you don't instantly relate to and would like to discuss further. So I thought I'd ask for others views on this one (spoile warning for anyone who hasn't read the later Earthsea books) - 'Not everything in Tehanu works. The evil mages who capture Tenar and Ged toward the end of the book are more caricatures than characters, an entirely unsubtle embodiment of Le Guin's feminist agenda. And the recontextualization of the magic of Earthsea has the ultimate effect of devaluing it, with the result that when high magic abruptly intrudes upon the plot, in the form of the dragon Kalessin, it's not entirely convincing. In a world where the very basis of magic can be questioned, in which the power of mages is suspect because it's also the power of men and Ged's grief for his lost gift is portrayed as self-pity, a dragon no longer really seems to have a place. Now, a decade after Tehanu, Le Guin has entered the world of Earthsea yet again, with a volume of short works, Tales From Earthsea, and a new novel, The Other Wind. She hasn't abandoned her revisionist approach (in Tales from Earthsea, for instance, we learn that Roke, that bastion of male magery, was partly founded by women). But her concern this time is to explore Earthsea rather than to challenge it--expanding and enriching its history, following threads and themes left open by previous books. If the first three novels are pure epic fantasy, in which ordinary life plays little part, and Tehanu is (as much as any fantasy novel can be) anti-fantasy, in which high magic has become more or less irrelevant, these works exist somewhere at the midpoint. As Ged himself might say: "Thus is Equilibrium maintained." While Tales From Earthsea is mostly backstory, filling in a number of gaps in Earthsea's history, The Other Wind takes Earthsea's story forward.' (http://www.sff.net/people/victoriastrauss/reviewotherwind.html) Now personally, although generally a reader of novels in preference to short stories, I found more substance in Tales from Earthsea than in The Other Wind. I would not write these tales off as 'back story' (a term I have become familiar with from Jasper Fforde's amazing books - anyone else enjoy?) because I think they explore new territory (and interested to note your comments on the use of the word 'tales' in 1978). Also I would not describe the first three books as 'pure epic fantasy' (although I gather from those of you who saw it the miniseries makers applied that term in the making). They are subtle as well as glorious, dealing as ever with complex personalities, concepts of identity and shadow, society as well as individuals, ethics and mystery as well as handy magic. I personally love Tehanu, although finding it deeply disturbing. I feel a frisson of hostility in the reviewer's reference to 'a feminist agenda' - I would describe the evil mages as unexplored shadows rather than caricatures - UKL of course is not afraid to go deeper into evil such as in Word for World is Forest (not one of my personal favourites but I creep back to try it again every few years). The thing I find hard to accept in Tehanu is that Tenar's son should end up such a creep - one feels her son would have had more positive features. But it is not a man hating book, with Ged himself of course remaining intensely sympathetic. On the 'revisionist' front I do admit to a feeling of disappointment in the debunking of the wall of stones and the land beyond, which I have always found a moving and dignified concept of the mystery of death. I'd love to know other peoples' view of this development. Blue skies Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Bittner" To: Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:27 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Resources on the WWW Hello all -- I've just now joined the group. It's nice to consort with so many literate folks. I've uploaded the file leguin.zip to the "files" folder of this discussion group. It's a compilation of a bunch of WWW links. Am I carrying wood into the forest by telling this group that Le Guin will be the Distinguished Guest Author at the SFRA gathering in Las Vegas? June 23 - 26, 2005 http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/sfra/SFRA2005_sked.htm Best wishes to all, Jim Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 12:17:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.35]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:28:00 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2005 23:28:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2005 23:28:00 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 24831 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 23:28:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 23:28:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 23:28:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2005 23:28:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2005 23:28:01 -0000 X-Sender: jolly13anna@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49405 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 22:20:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 22:20:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 22:20:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2005 22:20:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.168] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2005 22:20:17 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.35 From: "jolly13anna" X-Originating-IP: 217.185.38.157 X-Yahoo-Profile: jolly13anna X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 11 Jan 2005 23:28:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.43 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:20:15 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, all - Here s "another newbie jumping in"! I joined the group two months ago, but remained a silent but enthusiastic reader because I m very busy and because my English s not so good. But now something Hannah wrote catapulted my out of my reserve. I m a sixty-three-year-old teacher from South-Germany, and I didn t know a thing about Ursula Le Guin or her books until four years ago, when I saw the first Lord-of-the-Rings film (My grown-up children laughed at me: "You bought the book for us years ago and didn t read it yourself?!?") Then I began to read Tolkien and at the same time I discovered "The left Hand of Darkness". I was impressed, enchanted, enthusiastic - I m an old feminist and deeply interested in gender studies. Since this time I m a fan of Ursula Le Guin and like a teenager fan I collected all her books (in English and in German) and all her available English Audio-books. Jim wrote: "It s nice to consort with so many literate folk." I think it s nice too and I enjoy it very much! Hannah wrote: "On the 'revisionist' front I do admit to a feeling of disappointment in the debunking of the wall of stones and the land beyond, which I have always found a moving and dignified concept of the mystery of death. I d love to know other peoples' view of this development." With me, it s the other way round: I found the description of the land beyond the wall of stones, the land of the dead, always depressing and frightening. There the dead are not really dead, they are living an everlasting life without being connected with anybody or anything. To me, this is like the Hades of the old Greeks - not very consoling. Maybe it s dignified in a heroic or existentialistic way,but not to me ( O dear, this is really difficult to explain in English!). When I read the last chapter of "The other Wind" I was deeply moved. The image of the broken wall and the dead going to be free went to my heart. I think it s because in this concept you remain in some way "connected" with the world/the Universe. You loose your individual being, but you return to the whole Universe. To me it s like going home. Best wishes for 2005 Elke Anna ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 16:26:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:16:35 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2005 21:16:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2005 21:16:35 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jolly13anna@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25389 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2005 21:16:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2005 21:16:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2005 21:16:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2005 21:16:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.187] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2005 21:16:14 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.28 From: "jolly13anna" X-Originating-IP: 217.185.38.135 X-Yahoo-Profile: jolly13anna MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 21:16:14 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Miniseries in German TV ! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh no !!!!! Today I bought a TV-programm for next week.I looked in it and didn t believe my eyes: You can see "Earthsea - Die Saga von Erdsee" on January 20th and 21st on channel Pro 7, where there are usually a lot of advertising and a lot of silly films to be seen. They announce the film as a "colourful epic tale in two parts" and give a short description of the story - awful! This really seems to be another story, only with the names and places from the Earthsea I know! Two months ago I read your discussion about this film and thought it a faraway problem! Now I ll have to decide what to do - see it or better not see it? Elke Anna ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jan 14 11:36:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.16]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:08:23 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2005 01:08:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.156] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2005 01:08:26 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: helander@neteze.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24663 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2005 01:08:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2005 01:08:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO esmtp.neteze.com) (216.127.160.11) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2005 01:08:24 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (67-150-144-13.stkn.neteze.com [67.150.144.13] (may be forged)) by esmtp.neteze.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j0E18HMM006017 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:08:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <41E71B73.6060708@neteze.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <1105628833.9194.19601.m12@yahoogroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1105628833.9194.19601.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.127.160.11 From: Helander X-Yahoo-Profile: cfluz7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:08:03 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 478 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you see it, it will just make you angry. I could only make it through the first half hour and I felt like throwing things at my TV. Make your own miniseries in your imagination. It will be better. Carol in California the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com wrote: > >There is 1 message in this issue. > >Topics in this digest: > > 1. Miniseries in German TV ! > From: "jolly13anna" > > >________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 21:16:14 -0000 > From: "jolly13anna" >Subject: Miniseries in German TV ! > > >Oh no !!!!! >Today I bought a TV-programm for next week.I looked in it and didn t >believe my eyes: You can see "Earthsea - Die Saga von Erdsee" on >January 20th and 21st on channel Pro 7, where there are usually a lot >of advertising and a lot of silly films to be seen. They announce the >film as a "colourful epic tale in two parts" and give a short >description of the story - awful! This really seems to be another >story, only with the names and places from the Earthsea I know! >Two months ago I read your discussion about this film and thought it a >faraway problem! Now I ll have to decide what to do - see it or better >not see it? > >Elke Anna > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 16 15:42:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.40]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2005 09:48:16 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2005 17:48:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2005 17:48:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81596 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2005 17:48:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2005 17:48:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2005 17:48:16 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id r.bf.4eecc0b7 (18251) for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2005 12:48:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5003 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.157.36 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 12:48:13 EST Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 476 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Dans un e-mail datŽ du 10/01/2005 15:22:15 Paris, Madrid, the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com a Žcrit : In a world where the very basis of magic can be questioned, in which the power of mages is suspect because it's also the power of men and Ged's grief for his lost gift is portrayed as self-pity, a dragon no longer really seems to have a place. Just off the cuff, I did not interpret Ged's grief as self-pity, he had lost something great and wonderful, and maybe he had the right to some "self-compassion". But of course, he also had to put that part of life behind him and get on with living. When his grief became an excuse, then perhaps it was self-pity. And it seems to me that the basis of magic not only can be questioned, but is, all the time, and perhaps Le Guin is telling us that having a world where dragons do have a place is not easy or automatic. It takes the faith of a child that's driven to reach beyond the world we live in. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 16 15:42:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.36]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:00:21 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2005 19:00:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.192] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2005 19:00:19 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51430 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2005 19:00:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2005 19:00:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratanakiri.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.37) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2005 19:00:20 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (ratanakiri [65.246.141.37]) by ratanakiri.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id j0GJ0JU5014228 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:00:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:00:30 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20050116190029.GC9048@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.246.141.37 X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:00:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 476 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit judyldubois@aol.com scripsit: > And it seems to me that the basis of magic not only can be questioned, > but is, all the time, and perhaps Le Guin is telling us that having > a world where dragons do have a place is not easy or automatic. > It takes the faith of a child that's driven to reach beyond the world > we live in. Beyond the world were visions showed Forbid to those that dwell therein. --Bilbo's song in Rivendell -- We call nothing profound jcowan@reutershealth.com that is not wittily expressed. John Cowan --Northrop Frye (improved) http://www.reutershealth.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jan 20 22:00:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:53:46 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2005 01:51:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2005 01:51:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23130 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2005 01:51:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2005 01:51:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.115) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2005 01:51:15 -0000 Received: from art (167.charlotte-02rh16rt-03rh15rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.210.167]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2005012101511311100rbkbne>; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 01:51:13 +0000 Message-ID: <002001c4ff5b$da901900$a7d24c0c@art> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.115 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:51:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Anna and all, Here's a belated welcome to Anna, and thanks for a thoughtful and articulate post. I agree with her entirely about the revised vision of the afterlife presented in The Other Wind -- it is much truer to UKL's mature thought, and also much kinder and more Taoist, than the original. As Anna says, death is now going home, not eternal exile from the rest of the universe. I've also been thrilled to see the pre-patriarchal history of Earthsea emerge in The Other Wind and Tales From Earthsea. As much as I love the first three books of Earthsea (I've just listened to the recorded version of A Wizard of Earthsea, which I highly recommend) I've had to overlook and forgive UKL's youthful chauvinism in making Roke all-male, in coining painful proverbs like "Weak as women's magic, wicked as women's magic," and in making even Tenar, the powerful and complex heroine of the second book, a servant of Dark and Eeee-vil Earth Forces, which all seem disappointingly sexist from the vantage point of the year 2005. The later books are a brilliant reconsideration of the early material, cast gracefully as simply further discoveries of the wprld of the archipelago. I've read Tehanu and the two later books several times each and look forward to reading them again. Melody wishing a dragon had halted today's inauguration ----- Original Message ----- From: "jolly13anna" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 5:20 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones > > > > Hello, all - > > Here s "another newbie jumping in"! I joined the group two months ago, > but remained a silent but enthusiastic reader because I m very busy > and because my English s not so good. But now something Hannah wrote > catapulted my out of my reserve. > I m a sixty-three-year-old teacher from South-Germany, and I didn t > know a thing about Ursula Le Guin or her books until four years ago, > when I saw the first Lord-of-the-Rings film (My grown-up children > laughed at me: "You bought the book for us years ago and didn t read > it yourself?!?") Then I began to read Tolkien and at the same time I > discovered "The left Hand of Darkness". I was impressed, enchanted, > enthusiastic - I m an old feminist and deeply interested in gender > studies. Since this time I m a fan of Ursula Le Guin and like a > teenager fan I collected all her books (in English and in German) and > all her available English Audio-books. > Jim wrote: "It s nice to consort with so many literate folk." I think > it s nice too and I enjoy it very much! > > Hannah wrote: > "On the 'revisionist' front I do admit to a feeling of disappointment > in the debunking of the wall of stones and the land beyond, which I > have always found a moving and dignified concept of the mystery of > death. I d love to know other peoples' view of this development." > > With me, it s the other way round: I found the description of the land > beyond the wall of stones, the land of the dead, always depressing and > frightening. There the dead are not really dead, they are living an > everlasting life without being connected with anybody or anything. To > me, this is like the Hades of the old Greeks - not very consoling. > Maybe it s dignified in a heroic or existentialistic way,but not to me > ( O dear, this is really difficult to explain in English!). > When I read the last chapter of "The other Wind" I was deeply moved. > The image of the broken wall and the dead going to be free went to my > heart. I think it s because in this concept you remain in some way > "connected" with the world/the Universe. You loose your individual > being, but you return to the whole Universe. To me it s like going > home. > > Best wishes for 2005 > Elke Anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 11:33:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:19:57 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2005 16:19:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.158] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2005 16:19:58 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 94804 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2005 16:19:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2005 16:19:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2005 16:19:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2005 16:18:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.93] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2005 16:18:45 -0000 X-Sender: residentspy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2828 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2005 15:27:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2005 15:27:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web80902.mail.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.95.65) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2005 15:27:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 54789 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Jan 2005 15:27:42 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=O/8RbH2RsvxD4BI99ELkn5Hg4vatdshMNOsdrC9Pf7F75B5ANOuOqrAbiNj1dXX2JOr+PByLWlbjihJ6alfHfzBsipra7N1hl/7z/UYXKEibwSC8AJ3O2Wu/YM5z2iDWvaPAmCpomf73T9RYnSwOTQs164zkwpfZuYbo8InRkqU= ; Message-ID: <20050121152742.54787.qmail@web80902.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Received: from [219.65.151.148] by web80902.mail.scd.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:27:42 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <002001c4ff5b$da901900$a7d24c0c@art> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.95.65 From: rhea daniel X-Yahoo-Profile: residentspy X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 21 Jan 2005 16:18:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.44 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:27:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey everybody, I would have joined this group earlier if had I known there was a group to join. About me, well I'm a textile designer by profession, hoping to shift to something else soon since its a bit boring, and I've been crazy about UKL since my brother lent me The Wizard when I was twelve. She has influenced my thoughts and inspired my work in the deepest ways possible. So, honored to join and be a part of this group. If any of you wish to see the kind of work I really like doing, do please visit my site at www.geocities.com/darkness_box And Ms. Ivins, nice to read from another fan of UKL. Though I beg to differ about UKL's, as you mentioned 'youthful chauvinism'. As you know UKL is fascinated by anthropology, her characterization as well, is excellent, and along with that comes the very real behavioral attitudes of men and women. Male chauvinism was and is an essential part of the society we live in, well, at least in this part of the world, especially at an intellectual level, and she was simply showing things as a reflection of certain behavioral attitudes of different societies. And in response to.. '....coining painful proverbs like "Weak as women's magic, wicked as women's magic," and in making even Tenar, the powerful and complex heroine of the second book, a servant of Dark and Eeee-vil Earth Forces, which all seem disappointingly sexist from the vantage point of the year 2005....' Tenar lived in a female dominated society, so both Roke and Atuan were descriptions of quintessentially hermetic societies at two extremes, male, and female, neither open to change. Ged comes to Atuan and changes things, as Irian comes to Roke, more welcome than Ged was at Atuan, because the Master Doorkeeper actually let her in, seeing through her disguise. So, suspicion and ignorance on both sides, but also change and acceptance. Whatever proverbs she coined, they were a deliberate attempt to describe the intellectual high horse attitudes of the wizard men on Roke, not youthful chauvinism on her part. And most of all, I think she chose Ged (a boy) as the protagonist to test her abilities in challenging the stereotypical portrayal of a boy with special powers. In the end he is as sensitive and vulnerable as all of us (boy or girl), and succeeds not with a spectacular culmination of wizardry, lights and explosions, but quite simply, by the abilities that we all possess. And in response to... 'The later books are a brilliant reconsideration of the early material, cast gracefully as simply further discoveries of the wprld of the archipelago.....' I personally do no feel she 'reconsidered' the material in any way, I feel she lead it all the way till here, that Earthsea changed as her story matured towards an ending. And change is what her books are all about. Well she certainly is brilliant. I enjoyed sharing my points of view, and thanks for listening. Cheers!! Rhea India. Melody Ivins wrote: Hello Anna and all, Here's a belated welcome to Anna, and thanks for a thoughtful and articulate post. I agree with her entirely about the revised vision of the afterlife presented in The Other Wind -- it is much truer to UKL's mature thought, and also much kinder and more Taoist, than the original. As Anna says, death is now going home, not eternal exile from the rest of the universe. I've also been thrilled to see the pre-patriarchal history of Earthsea emerge in The Other Wind and Tales From Earthsea. As much as I love the first three books of Earthsea (I've just listened to the recorded version of A Wizard of Earthsea, which I highly recommend) I've had to overlook and forgive UKL's youthful chauvinism in making Roke all-male, in coining painful proverbs like "Weak as women's magic, wicked as women's magic," and in making even Tenar, the powerful and complex heroine of the second book, a servant of Dark and Eeee-vil Earth Forces, which all seem disappointingly sexist from the vantage point of the year 2005. The later books are a brilliant reconsideration of the early material, cast gracefully as simply further discoveries of the wprld of the archipelago. I've read Tehanu and the two later books several times each and look forward to reading them again. Melody wishing a dragon had halted today's inauguration --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 19:20:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.36]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:01:49 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 00:01:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 00:01:51 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10525 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2005 00:01:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2005 00:01:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.117) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2005 00:01:46 -0000 Received: from art (183.charlotte-18rh15rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.233.183]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <2005012200014411300ne6d7e>; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:01:45 +0000 Message-ID: <001101c50015$bad59580$7bf24c0c@art> To: References: <20050121152742.54787.qmail@web80902.mail.scd.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.117 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:02:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Rhea and all, My comments were intended in the spirit of some of UKL's own reflections on her early writing. She has taken herself to task in several essays (much more fiercely than I would), for accepting the sexist status quo, and reflecting that acceptance in her writing, before she discovered feminism in the early 70s. "Is Gender Necessary?", printed in Language of the Night, and "Is Gender Necessary? Redux" in Dancing At The Edge of the World, twenty years later, explicitly report her changing attitudes about the people and society she created in The Left Hand of Darkness. For instance, in the later essay she regrets that she referred to her androgynes as "he." Rather than rewrite Left Hand, she wrote a story, "Winter's King," which uses "she" to refer to the Gethenians, with very lively results. I think there's a similar process, larger and deeper in scale, at work in the newer Earthsea material. Instead of creating a more balanced archipelago society and pretending that it has always been that way, UKL is using the chauvinist practices and attitudes established in the early books to show us how and why sexism happens, how it is perpetuated, what it costs, and what it takes to get rid of it. Fine anthropologist that she is, she shows us that patriarchy is often the result of violent suppression of a more egalitarian society, and that there is always resistance to that suppression. These themes have been essential to the last few Ekumen novels, and I love it that they have now made their way to Eathsea. You sound a bit complacent about the prevalence of male chauvinism in our society, Rhea. Do you consider yourself a feminist? Do you consider LeGuin a feminist? I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm curious. It's great fun to talk to others who love UKL as much as I do. Melody ----- Original Message ----- From: "rhea daniel" To: Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones > > > > Hey everybody, > > > > I would have joined this group earlier if had I known there was a group to join. About me, well I'm a textile designer by profession, hoping to shift to something else soon since its a bit boring, and I've been crazy about UKL since my brother lent me The Wizard when I was twelve. She has influenced my thoughts and inspired my work in the deepest ways possible. So, honored to join and be a part of this group. If any of you wish to see the kind of work I really like doing, do please visit my site at > > > > www.geocities.com/darkness_box > > > > > > And Ms. Ivins, nice to read from another fan of UKL. Though I beg to differ about UKL's, as you mentioned 'youthful chauvinism'. As you know UKL is fascinated by anthropology, her characterization as well, is excellent, and along with that comes the very real behavioral attitudes of men and women. Male chauvinism was and is an essential part of the society we live in, well, at least in this part of the world, especially at an intellectual level, and she was simply showing things as a reflection of certain behavioral attitudes of different societies. > > > > And in response to.. > > > > '....coining painful proverbs like "Weak as women's magic, wicked as women's magic," and in making even Tenar, the powerful and complex heroine of the second book, a servant of Dark and Eeee-vil Earth Forces, which all seem disappointingly sexist from the vantage point of the year 2005....' > > > Tenar lived in a female dominated society, so both Roke and Atuan were descriptions of quintessentially hermetic societies at two extremes, male, and female, neither open to change. Ged comes to Atuan and changes things, as Irian comes to Roke, more welcome than Ged was at Atuan, because the Master Doorkeeper actually let her in, seeing through her disguise. So, suspicion and ignorance on both sides, but also change and acceptance. Whatever proverbs she coined, they were a deliberate attempt to describe the intellectual high horse attitudes of the wizard men on Roke, not youthful chauvinism on her part. > > > > And most of all, I think she chose Ged (a boy) as the protagonist to test her abilities in challenging the stereotypical portrayal of a boy with special powers. In the end he is as sensitive and vulnerable as all of us (boy or girl), and succeeds not with a spectacular culmination of wizardry, lights and explosions, but quite simply, by the abilities that we all possess. > > > > And in response to... > > > > 'The later books are a brilliant reconsideration of the early material, cast gracefully as simply further discoveries of the wprld of the archipelago.....' > > > > I personally do no feel she 'reconsidered' the material in any way, I feel she lead it all the way till here, that Earthsea changed as her story matured towards an ending. And change is what her books are all about. > > > > Well she certainly is brilliant. > > > > I enjoyed sharing my points of view, and thanks for listening. > > > > Cheers!! > > > > Rhea > > > > India. > > > > > Melody Ivins wrote: > Hello Anna and all, > > Here's a belated welcome to Anna, and thanks for a thoughtful and articulate > post. I agree with her entirely about the revised vision of the afterlife > presented in The Other Wind -- it is much truer to UKL's mature thought, and > also much kinder and more Taoist, than the original. As Anna says, death is > now going home, not eternal exile from the rest of the universe. > > I've also been thrilled to see the pre-patriarchal history of Earthsea > emerge in The Other Wind and Tales From Earthsea. As much as I love the > first three books of Earthsea (I've just listened to the recorded version of > A Wizard of Earthsea, which I highly recommend) I've had to overlook and > forgive UKL's youthful chauvinism in making Roke all-male, in coining > painful proverbs like "Weak as women's magic, wicked as women's magic," and > in making even Tenar, the powerful and complex heroine of the second book, a > servant of Dark and Eeee-vil Earth Forces, which all seem disappointingly > sexist from the vantage point of the year 2005. The later books are a > brilliant reconsideration of the early material, cast gracefully as simply > further discoveries of the wprld of the archipelago. I've read Tehanu and > the two later books several times each and look forward to reading them > again. > > Melody > wishing a dragon had halted today's inauguration > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Jan 22 11:30:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.16]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:07:41 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 08:07:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.192] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 08:07:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: residentspy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87444 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2005 08:07:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2005 08:07:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web80902.mail.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.95.65) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2005 08:07:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 76992 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jan 2005 08:07:25 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=VCHZIts7srj7In8ZK4LCkKc9z2iuVKxqDevDd5yGs3Fqun/7mJw7uR4QFWYUXoIoBG23ZPTni5W7U3xzAXpkv+jXxRAVbATo6RF3A1b6sv4p1hisSIIDnIuO/4F4gl1gIUUEDsljZLF0GZfZI1fIdWDeukznHxMCsEBGX1rl86U= ; Message-ID: <20050122080725.76990.qmail@web80902.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Received: from [61.246.53.238] by web80902.mail.scd.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:07:25 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001101c50015$bad59580$7bf24c0c@art> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.95.65 From: rhea daniel X-Yahoo-Profile: residentspy MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:07:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Hello Melody and everybody, In response to .. "she regrets that she referred to her androgynes as "he." Rather than rewrite Left Hand, she wrote a story, "Winter's King," which uses "she" to refer to the Gethenians, with very lively results." I think she might at some point , been cloistered by the limited choices of the language itself , but also preferred not to resort to making up a pronoun to refer the to androgynes. I also remember she didn't like the idea of using "heshe" to refer to androgynes so I suppose, in the end it was a matter of choice what to call them by, and may be to make up for The Left Hand, she used "she" in "Winter's King". As you said earlier, this might have been a reconsideration of The Left Hand after all. In response to.. "You sound a bit complacent about the prevalence of male chauvinism in our society..." Our, or should I say my society, because we do live in different places, is a bit confused on gender issues, they want their daughters to be educated, successful, but they are not willing to let us go all the way to reach that goal, also, we are expectated to drop all our hard work if being married so requires. We have a lot less time than men do twice as much, not to mention we are expected to look good the whole time while weâre at it. And it does annoy me. Unfortunately this duality exists, being torn between family and career...choosing between the two... or somehow managing with both...situations are subjective and complex... However, reacting to male biases (in the workplace especially), I have learned with time that being angry always brings negetive results. Neutrality often work better, being loud or holding a placard that says ãequal rightsä is not often taken seriously, especially in a situation where biases run deep and cannot be changed overnight. These changes take time, but things are most certainly changing. It is not an issue of Us vs. Them. Let me give you an example a friend gave me. Rock climbing. The women are smaller and are better at finding footholds and crevices, the men provide the strength required for the activity, paired together they work well, and help each other to reach a goal by accepting their differences, and using them. However, I also consider myself lucky not to be the victim of brutality, I have heard of countries where the situation is much, much worse for some women. Do you consider yourself a feminist? If you would describe feminism as a womans belief in her right to express her thoughts as freely as a mans, to fulfill her desires as much a man has a right to, then yes I would call myself feminist. That would also include a whole lot of women. Many complex issues involved there. Do you consider LeGuin a feminist?" I would call Ursula a great writer. She chose a strangers mind, walked around in his shoes, crawled about in his skin and saw things through his eyes, and her choice of gender or reference to androgyny bears no cause for regret in my mind. Sheâs able to see both sides of a story and it take s a great writer to do that. I would not presume to call her anything other than that. That was an interesting. If i've deviated from the topic in any way please let me know I will refrain in the future. Thanks for listening, Rhea Melody Ivins wrote: Hi Rhea and all, My comments were intended in the spirit of some of UKL's own reflections on her early writing. She has taken herself to task in several essays (much more fiercely than I would), for accepting the sexist status quo, and reflecting that acceptance in her writing, before she discovered feminism in the early 70s. "Is Gender Necessary?", printed in Language of the Night, and "Is Gender Necessary? Redux" in Dancing At The Edge of the World, twenty years later, explicitly report her changing attitudes about the people and society she created in The Left Hand of Darkness. For instance, in the later essay she regrets that she referred to her androgynes as "he." Rather than rewrite Left Hand, she wrote a story, "Winter's King," which uses "she" to refer to the Gethenians, with very lively results. I think there's a similar process, larger and deeper in scale, at work in the newer Earthsea material. Instead of creating a more balanced archipelago society and pretending that it has always been that way, UKL is using the chauvinist practices and attitudes established in the early books to show us how and why sexism happens, how it is perpetuated, what it costs, and what it takes to get rid of it. Fine anthropologist that she is, she shows us that patriarchy is often the result of violent suppression of a more egalitarian society, and that there is always resistance to that suppression. These themes have been essential to the last few Ekumen novels, and I love it that they have now made their way to Eathsea. You sound a bit complacent about the prevalence of male chauvinism in our society, Rhea. Do you consider yourself a feminist? Do you consider LeGuin a feminist? I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm curious. It's great fun to talk to others who love UKL as much as I do. Melody ----- Original Message ----- From: "rhea daniel" To: Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones > > > > Hey everybody, > > > > I would have joined this group earlier if had I known there was a group to join. About me, well I'm a textile designer by profession, hoping to shift to something else soon since its a bit boring, and I've been crazy about UKL since my brother lent me The Wizard when I was twelve. She has influenced my thoughts and inspired my work in the deepest ways possible. So, honored to join and be a part of this group. If any of you wish to see the kind of work I really like doing, do please visit my site at > > > > www.geocities.com/darkness_box > > > > > > And Ms. Ivins, nice to read from another fan of UKL. Though I beg to differ about UKL's, as you mentioned 'youthful chauvinism'. As you know UKL is fascinated by anthropology, her characterization as well, is excellent, and along with that comes the very real behavioral attitudes of men and women. Male chauvinism was and is an essential part of the society we live in, well, at least in this part of the world, especially at an intellectual level, and she was simply showing things as a reflection of certain behavioral attitudes of different societies. > > > > And in response to.. > > > > '....coining painful proverbs like "Weak as women's magic, wicked as women's magic," and in making even Tenar, the powerful and complex heroine of the second book, a servant of Dark and Eeee-vil Earth Forces, which all seem disappointingly sexist from the vantage point of the year 2005....' > > > Tenar lived in a female dominated society, so both Roke and Atuan were descriptions of quintessentially hermetic societies at two extremes, male, and female, neither open to change. Ged comes to Atuan and changes things, as Irian comes to Roke, more welcome than Ged was at Atuan, because the Master Doorkeeper actually let her in, seeing through her disguise. So, suspicion and ignorance on both sides, but also change and acceptance. Whatever proverbs she coined, they were a deliberate attempt to describe the intellectual high horse attitudes of the wizard men on Roke, not youthful chauvinism on her part. > > > > And most of all, I think she chose Ged (a boy) as the protagonist to test her abilities in challenging the stereotypical portrayal of a boy with special powers. In the end he is as sensitive and vulnerable as all of us (boy or girl), and succeeds not with a spectacular culmination of wizardry, lights and explosions, but quite simply, by the abilities that we all possess. > > > > And in response to... > > > > 'The later books are a brilliant reconsideration of the early material, cast gracefully as simply further discoveries of the wprld of the archipelago.....' > > > > I personally do no feel she 'reconsidered' the material in any way, I feel she lead it all the way till here, that Earthsea changed as her story matured towards an ending. And change is what her books are all about. > > > > Well she certainly is brilliant. > > > > I enjoyed sharing my points of view, and thanks for listening. > > > > Cheers!! > > > > Rhea > > > > India. > > > > > Melody Ivins wrote: > Hello Anna and all, > > Here's a belated welcome to Anna, and thanks for a thoughtful and articulate > post. I agree with her entirely about the revised vision of the afterlife > presented in The Other Wind -- it is much truer to UKL's mature thought, and > also much kinder and more Taoist, than the original. As Anna says, death is > now going home, not eternal exile from the rest of the universe. > > I've also been thrilled to see the pre-patriarchal history of Earthsea > emerge in The Other Wind and Tales From Earthsea. As much as I love the > first three books of Earthsea (I've just listened to the recorded version of > A Wizard of Earthsea, which I highly recommend) I've had to overlook and > forgive UKL's youthful chauvinism in making Roke all-male, in coining > painful proverbs like "Weak as women's magic, wicked as women's magic," and > in making even Tenar, the powerful and complex heroine of the second book, a > servant of Dark and Eeee-vil Earth Forces, which all seem disappointingly > sexist from the vantage point of the year 2005. The later books are a > brilliant reconsideration of the early material, cast gracefully as simply > further discoveries of the wprld of the archipelago. I've read Tehanu and > the two later books several times each and look forward to reading them > again. > > Melody > wishing a dragon had halted today's inauguration > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT document.write(''); --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Jan 22 11:30:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.48]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 01:01:17 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 09:01:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.192] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 09:01:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: helene.escudie@poleuropeen.u-strasbg.fr X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52152 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2005 09:01:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2005 09:01:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp8.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.23) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2005 09:01:04 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf0804.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 943771C003F3 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:01:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.3.12] (AStrasbourg-151-1-43-216.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr [83.196.69.216]) by mwinf0804.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1C4D91C003D7 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:01:03 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20050122090103116.1C4D91C003D7@mwinf0804.wanadoo.fr Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050122080725.76990.qmail@web80902.mail.scd.yahoo.com> References: <20050122080725.76990.qmail@web80902.mail.scd.yahoo.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.23 From: HŽlne EscudiŽ MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 09:54:53 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Heshe Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everybody, > >"she regrets that she referred to her androgynes as "he." Rather than >rewrite Left Hand, she wrote a story, "Winter's King," which uses "she" to >refer to the Gethenians, with very lively results." > In response to Rhea, " I think she might at some point , been cloistered by the limited choices of the language itself , but also preferred not to resort to making up a pronoun to refer the to androgynes. I also remember she didn't like the idea of using "heshe" to refer to androgynes so I suppose, in the end it was a matter of choice what to call them by, and may be to make up for The Left Hand, she used "she" in "Winter's King". As you said earlier, this might have been a reconsideration of The Left Hand after all. " Ursula Le Guin used "heshe" in a short story called "Solitude" edited in "The Birthday of the World". It was very cleverly done. She used it only three times in the short story and the rest of the time she used the name of the character, "Arrem". Later on, in the short story "Coming of Age in Karhide", she managed a very clever device. She used a sort of "mixed writing", She used the pronoun according to the circumstances, the character, etc. For example, when she referred to a character who has been going into kemmer as a man for several years, because he is in his last years of kemmer, she used "he". When she referred to the main character's mother, she used "she". Therefore, this story is very pleasant to read, and very interesting to analyse. Let me introduce myself. I have been listening to all your voices now for a long time, but somehow, I never found the time to participate in the discussions.I am Helene, I am French, and I have just finished a Ph D on Ursula K Le Guin, what we call in France a "thesis". It tries to link all her writings, fantasy, science-fiction, mainstream, children's stories, etc, in a sort of common dynamic towards a unity which, of course, has to do with the male and the female "voice" or "language". Carol Gilligan's research work helped me a lot. When I worked on the use of the pronouns by Ursula Le Guin, I also made a comparative analysis on the re-writing of "Winter's King". "Winter's King" was written in 1968, before Ursula Le Guin "knew" that the inhabitants of Gethen were androgynes. The next year she wrote "The Left Hand of Darkness", and she "found" they were. Later on, when "Winter's King" was edited in a collection of short stories, she re-wrote it, and made a certain amount of changes. Not only she changed the pronouns when she re-wrote the story in 1975, but she changed also a whole lot of details which tend to blur the sexed atmosphere of the short story. Thanks for reading me. It's very stimulating to read from you all. Helene ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Jan 22 11:31:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.44]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 03:41:36 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 11:41:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 11:41:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: tirin@takver.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9049 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2005 11:41:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2005 11:41:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO apollo.linuxengine.net) (69.93.41.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2005 11:41:35 -0000 Received: from apollo.linuxengine.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apollo.linuxengine.net (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j0MBfPZJ003415 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 05:41:29 -0600 Received: (from neo@localhost) by apollo.linuxengine.net (8.13.0/8.12.10/Submit) id j0MAeo1p000902; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 04:40:50 -0600 Message-Id: <200501221040.j0MAeo1p000902@apollo.linuxengine.net> X-Authentication-Warning: apollo.linuxengine.net: neo set sender to tirin@takver.com using -f To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: WebMail X-IPAddress: 202.63.56.57 X-Spam-Score: 0 () X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.39 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.93.41.132 X-eGroups-From: "takver" From: "takver" X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 04:40:50 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Heshe Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very interesting discussion. I know there were a couple of attempts in the 1970s of using a nongender specific pronoun of 'se' An example see: Bert Garskof - The Canbe Collective Builds a Be-Hive (1977) (might be very hard to track down this book now, although I ended up with 2 copies.) I personally liked this invention. But Leguin seemed not keen to take up this path of an invented non-gender pronoun. Takver http://www.takver.com (too busy with Indymedia at the moment to comment often) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Jan 22 11:31:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.24]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:07:03 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 16:07:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 16:07:04 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: residentspy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77828 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2005 16:07:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2005 16:07:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web80901.mail.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.95.64) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2005 16:07:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 31583 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jan 2005 16:07:01 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=bSmXDqc9ZsE54L6K+8+oAfAmJpMEcjmFUZdVNO8alpU72E7XQVew7B4BO5BioGXQ7AbaEJQ1L9b22VKtPr59xSJaYluR1m6l2Sv0t8SnIhTjPspcllBFf9SOCEnCpk2DN972owcrJPKi6gxkzRCOotMFOsUHo8fgNMx2b1Mr8hY= ; Message-ID: <20050122160701.31581.qmail@web80901.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Received: from [219.65.131.200] by web80901.mail.scd.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:07:01 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.95.64 From: rhea daniel X-Yahoo-Profile: residentspy MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:07:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Heshe Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Hm, yes, it seems we got to read the corrected 1975 version of Winter's King in her collection of short stories and missed the original one published in 1969, puts an end to the speculations of her choice of gender, since we know now what came first. However she did mention in an introduction to the story how she finds "made-up pronouns, "te" and "heshe" and so on, dreary and annoying". She also explains why she found "he" appropriate for The Left Hand. Hm. I did a little paper in college, much like yours, Helene , trying to find common threads among fantasy writers, making analogies to history and religion etc., however it must pale in comparison to the intense research required for a PhD! Lucky for me nobody knew what I was talking about so any holes in my research went unnoticed. Rhea HŽlne EscudiŽ wrote: Hello everybody, > >"she regrets that she referred to her androgynes as "he." Rather than >rewrite Left Hand, she wrote a story, "Winter's King," which uses "she" to >refer to the Gethenians, with very lively results." > In response to Rhea, " I think she might at some point , been cloistered by the limited choices of the language itself , but also preferred not to resort to making up a pronoun to refer the to androgynes. I also remember she didn't like the idea of using "heshe" to refer to androgynes so I suppose, in the end it was a matter of choice what to call them by, and may be to make up for The Left Hand, she used "she" in "Winter's King". As you said earlier, this might have been a reconsideration of The Left Hand after all. " Ursula Le Guin used "heshe" in a short story called "Solitude" edited in "The Birthday of the World". It was very cleverly done. She used it only three times in the short story and the rest of the time she used the name of the character, "Arrem". Later on, in the short story "Coming of Age in Karhide", she managed a very clever device. She used a sort of "mixed writing", She used the pronoun according to the circumstances, the character, etc. For example, when she referred to a character who has been going into kemmer as a man for several years, because he is in his last years of kemmer, she used "he". When she referred to the main character's mother, she used "she". Therefore, this story is very pleasant to read, and very interesting to analyse. Let me introduce myself. I have been listening to all your voices now for a long time, but somehow, I never found the time to participate in the discussions.I am Helene, I am French, and I have just finished a Ph D on Ursula K Le Guin, what we call in France a "thesis". It tries to link all her writings, fantasy, science-fiction, mainstream, children's stories, etc, in a sort of common dynamic towards a unity which, of course, has to do with the male and the female "voice" or "language". Carol Gilligan's research work helped me a lot. When I worked on the use of the pronouns by Ursula Le Guin, I also made a comparative analysis on the re-writing of "Winter's King". "Winter's King" was written in 1968, before Ursula Le Guin "knew" that the inhabitants of Gethen were androgynes. The next year she wrote "The Left Hand of Darkness", and she "found" they were. Later on, when "Winter's King" was edited in a collection of short stories, she re-wrote it, and made a certain amount of changes. Not only she changed the pronouns when she re-wrote the story in 1975, but she changed also a whole lot of details which tend to blur the sexed atmosphere of the short story. Thanks for reading me. It's very stimulating to read from you all. Helene --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Jan 22 14:16:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.44]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:05:36 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 18:05:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 18:05:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40321 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2005 18:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2005 18:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2005 18:05:34 -0000 Received: from du-040-0098.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.98] helo=oemcomputer) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1CsPdd-0009l5-IC for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:05:34 +0000 Message-ID: <003401c500ad$01e8bfa0$62749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <002001c4ff5b$da901900$a7d24c0c@art> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.141 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:05:28 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, great to see everyone's ideas. I'm with you Melody on the new vigorous feminist slant that UKL applies in her later Earthsea writings. I feel there was some prototype feminist thinking around in the original trilogy - the interesting power politics (Arha Kossil Thar) alongside elements of solidarity (Arha Penthe) in the female/eunuch community in The Tombs of Atuan, the cameo role of the Dyer of Lorbanerry (the Dyer was a woman, her son only the apprentice) in The Farthest shore. However there was a lot of sexism there! However I have been attempting to analyse further my reaction on the wall of stones. The whole theme of the Farthest Shore is about what happens when you try to deny or escape death. I still find this moving and profound, with the 'raise the hairs on the back of the neck' feeling. Fo example at the denouement: " 'By the word that will not be spoken until time's end I summoned thee. By the word that was spoken at the making of things I will release thee. Go free.' And bending over the blind man, who was crouched on his knees, Ged whispered in his ear, under the white tangled hair. Cob stood up. He looked about him slowly, with seeing eyes. He looked at Arren, and then at Ged. He spoke no word, but gazed at them with dark eyes. There was no anger in his face, no grief. Slowly he turned, and went off down the course of the Dry River, and soon was gone from sight. " The wall of stones first comes in, from memory (I'm sure someone will tell me if I'm wrong!) when Ged is trying to heal the son of his fisherman friend who runs ahead of him and Ged finds his own shadow waiting for him at the boundary. The idea of death as this quiet place, where wickedness, love and all other emotion is neutralised, with a retained identity but the feelings of life departed, has always struck deep chords for me. They say that death is the great taboo subject today as sex was 50 years ago, and for those of us in the second half of our lives, and those who mourn loved ones, understanding or relating to it becomes more pressing. Somehow it seems that in reinventing the dry land model as a mistake made by men in the past that can be undone, UKL is in a certain way following Cob's footsteps. Sorry if this offends! Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody Ivins" To: Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones > > Hello Anna and all, > > Here's a belated welcome to Anna, and thanks for a thoughtful and articulate > post. I agree with her entirely about the revised vision of the afterlife > presented in The Other Wind -- it is much truer to UKL's mature thought, and > also much kinder and more Taoist, than the original. As Anna says, death is > now going home, not eternal exile from the rest of the universe. > > I've also been thrilled to see the pre-patriarchal history of Earthsea > emerge in The Other Wind and Tales From Earthsea. As much as I love the > first three books of Earthsea (I've just listened to the recorded version of > A Wizard of Earthsea, which I highly recommend) I've had to overlook and > forgive UKL's youthful chauvinism in making Roke all-male, in coining > painful proverbs like "Weak as women's magic, wicked as women's magic," and > in making even Tenar, the powerful and complex heroine of the second book, a > servant of Dark and Eeee-vil Earth Forces, which all seem disappointingly > sexist from the vantage point of the year 2005. The later books are a > brilliant reconsideration of the early material, cast gracefully as simply > further discoveries of the wprld of the archipelago. I've read Tehanu and > the two later books several times each and look forward to reading them > again. > > Melody > wishing a dragon had halted today's inauguration > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jolly13anna" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 5:20 PM > Subject: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones > > > > > > > > > > Hello, all - > > > > Here s "another newbie jumping in"! I joined the group two months ago, > > but remained a silent but enthusiastic reader because I m very busy > > and because my English s not so good. But now something Hannah wrote > > catapulted my out of my reserve. > > I m a sixty-three-year-old teacher from South-Germany, and I didn t > > know a thing about Ursula Le Guin or her books until four years ago, > > when I saw the first Lord-of-the-Rings film (My grown-up children > > laughed at me: "You bought the book for us years ago and didn t read > > it yourself?!?") Then I began to read Tolkien and at the same time I > > discovered "The left Hand of Darkness". I was impressed, enchanted, > > enthusiastic - I m an old feminist and deeply interested in gender > > studies. Since this time I m a fan of Ursula Le Guin and like a > > teenager fan I collected all her books (in English and in German) and > > all her available English Audio-books. > > Jim wrote: "It s nice to consort with so many literate folk." I think > > it s nice too and I enjoy it very much! > > > > Hannah wrote: > > "On the 'revisionist' front I do admit to a feeling of disappointment > > in the debunking of the wall of stones and the land beyond, which I > > have always found a moving and dignified concept of the mystery of > > death. I d love to know other peoples' view of this development." > > > > With me, it s the other way round: I found the description of the land > > beyond the wall of stones, the land of the dead, always depressing and > > frightening. There the dead are not really dead, they are living an > > everlasting life without being connected with anybody or anything. To > > me, this is like the Hades of the old Greeks - not very consoling. > > Maybe it s dignified in a heroic or existentialistic way,but not to me > > ( O dear, this is really difficult to explain in English!). > > When I read the last chapter of "The other Wind" I was deeply moved. > > The image of the broken wall and the dead going to be free went to my > > heart. I think it s because in this concept you remain in some way > > "connected" with the world/the Universe. You loose your individual > > being, but you return to the whole Universe. To me it s like going > > home. > > > > Best wishes for 2005 > > Elke Anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Jan 22 18:03:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.38]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:55:44 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 22:55:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2005 22:55:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41757 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2005 22:55:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2005 22:55:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratanakiri.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.37) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2005 22:55:45 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (ratanakiri [65.246.141.37]) by ratanakiri.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id j0MMtiW3026293 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:55:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:55:45 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20050122225545.GF1285@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: <20050122160701.31581.qmail@web80901.mail.scd.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050122160701.31581.qmail@web80901.mail.scd.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.246.141.37 X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:55:45 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Heshe Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit rhea daniel scripsit: > > Hm, yes, it seems we got to read the corrected 1975 version of Winter's > King in her collection of short stories and missed the original one > published in 1969, puts an end to the speculations of her choice of > gender, since we know now what came first. However she did mention > in an introduction to the story how she finds "made-up pronouns, > "te" and "heshe" and so on, dreary and annoying". She also explains > why she found "he" appropriate for The Left Hand. Hm. By the 25th anniversary edition, though, she seems to have changed her mind; she mentions a LHD screenplay that she wrote using a/un's/a instead of he/his/him. -- Only do what only you can do. John Cowan --Edsger W. Dijkstra's advice http://www.reutershealth.com to a student in search of a thesis http://www.ccil.org/~cowan ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 23 13:48:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:24:32 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jan 2005 15:24:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.198] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jan 2005 15:24:33 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: residentspy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71544 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2005 15:24:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2005 15:24:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web80901.mail.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.95.64) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2005 15:24:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 66715 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Jan 2005 15:24:30 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=TUIy3IhWACDhWxWnUvJzJ1HUiApglxEwtvFd35E7mWYsCCPj3z4YMmU1AnXrTnUM3aYPks2YOYZAFRDTtzAnfPnxS+RnIfgSTju9MJGohb7afdSey38VHc1/L/vfOY1TKpBGEcvVN0ajstfGJ0sViyBPiQ0T/Zj9NKQSx5Ku+Oo= ; Message-ID: <20050123152430.66713.qmail@web80901.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Received: from [219.65.135.110] by web80901.mail.scd.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:24:30 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <003401c500ad$01e8bfa0$62749ed9@oemcomputer> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.95.64 From: rhea daniel X-Yahoo-Profile: residentspy MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:24:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Hello everybody, I agree with spine chilling part in UKL's representation of the land of the dead...I remember reading one of Anne Riceâs books where a vampire wants to 'die' in a bid to follow a loved one who was haunting him, and once he does, in a frenzy his vampire friends decide bring him back. When asked about the experience he replied that there was "nothing". Exploring the thought that there death as a sort of ...well lets say static existence, is terrifying. In a way vampirism too was borne of the the desire to escape death and 'be' forever. I wonder if this analogy makes any sense! Although.... I'm not a vampire expert. Just throwing ideas! Rhea Robins- one of wrote: Hi, great to see everyone's ideas. I'm with you Melody on the new vigorous feminist slant that UKL applies in her later Earthsea writings. I feel there was some prototype feminist thinking around in the original trilogy - the interesting power politics (Arha Kossil Thar) alongside elements of solidarity (Arha Penthe) in the female/eunuch community in The Tombs of Atuan, the cameo role of the Dyer of Lorbanerry (the Dyer was a woman, her son only the apprentice) in The Farthest shore. However there was a lot of sexism there! However I have been attempting to analyse further my reaction on the wall of stones. The whole theme of the Farthest Shore is about what happens when you try to deny or escape death. I still find this moving and profound, with the 'raise the hairs on the back of the neck' feeling. Fo example at the denouement: " 'By the word that will not be spoken until time's end I summoned thee. By the word that was spoken at the making of things I will release thee. Go free.' And bending over the blind man, who was crouched on his knees, Ged whispered in his ear, under the white tangled hair. Cob stood up. He looked about him slowly, with seeing eyes. He looked at Arren, and then at Ged. He spoke no word, but gazed at them with dark eyes. There was no anger in his face, no grief. Slowly he turned, and went off down the course of the Dry River, and soon was gone from sight. " The wall of stones first comes in, from memory (I'm sure someone will tell me if I'm wrong!) when Ged is trying to heal the son of his fisherman friend who runs ahead of him and Ged finds his own shadow waiting for him at the boundary. The idea of death as this quiet place, where wickedness, love and all other emotion is neutralised, with a retained identity but the feelings of life departed, has always struck deep chords for me. They say that death is the great taboo subject today as sex was 50 years ago, and for those of us in the second half of our lives, and those who mourn loved ones, understanding or relating to it becomes more pressing. Somehow it seems that in reinventing the dry land model as a mistake made by men in the past that can be undone, UKL is in a certain way following Cob's footsteps. Sorry if this offends! Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody Ivins" To: Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones > > Hello Anna and all, > > Here's a belated welcome to Anna, and thanks for a thoughtful and articulate > post. I agree with her entirely about the revised vision of the afterlife > presented in The Other Wind -- it is much truer to UKL's mature thought, and > also much kinder and more Taoist, than the original. As Anna says, death is > now going home, not eternal exile from the rest of the universe. > > I've also been thrilled to see the pre-patriarchal history of Earthsea > emerge in The Other Wind and Tales From Earthsea. As much as I love the > first three books of Earthsea (I've just listened to the recorded version of > A Wizard of Earthsea, which I highly recommend) I've had to overlook and > forgive UKL's youthful chauvinism in making Roke all-male, in coining > painful proverbs like "Weak as women's magic, wicked as women's magic," and > in making even Tenar, the powerful and complex heroine of the second book, a > servant of Dark and Eeee-vil Earth Forces, which all seem disappointingly > sexist from the vantage point of the year 2005. The later books are a > brilliant reconsideration of the early material, cast gracefully as simply > further discoveries of the wprld of the archipelago. I've read Tehanu and > the two later books several times each and look forward to reading them > again. > > Melody > wishing a dragon had halted today's inauguration > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jolly13anna" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 5:20 PM > Subject: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones > > > > > > > > > > Hello, all - > > > > Here s "another newbie jumping in"! I joined the group two months ago, > > but remained a silent but enthusiastic reader because I m very busy > > and because my English s not so good. But now something Hannah wrote > > catapulted my out of my reserve. > > I m a sixty-three-year-old teacher from South-Germany, and I didn t > > know a thing about Ursula Le Guin or her books until four years ago, > > when I saw the first Lord-of-the-Rings film (My grown-up children > > laughed at me: "You bought the book for us years ago and didn t read > > it yourself?!?") Then I began to read Tolkien and at the same time I > > discovered "The left Hand of Darkness". I was impressed, enchanted, > > enthusiastic - I m an old feminist and deeply interested in gender > > studies. Since this time I m a fan of Ursula Le Guin and like a > > teenager fan I collected all her books (in English and in German) and > > all her available English Audio-books. > > Jim wrote: "It s nice to consort with so many literate folk." I think > > it s nice too and I enjoy it very much! > > > > Hannah wrote: > > "On the 'revisionist' front I do admit to a feeling of disappointment > > in the debunking of the wall of stones and the land beyond, which I > > have always found a moving and dignified concept of the mystery of > > death. I d love to know other peoples' view of this development." > > > > With me, it s the other way round: I found the description of the land > > beyond the wall of stones, the land of the dead, always depressing and > > frightening. There the dead are not really dead, they are living an > > everlasting life without being connected with anybody or anything. To > > me, this is like the Hades of the old Greeks - not very consoling. > > Maybe it s dignified in a heroic or existentialistic way,but not to me > > ( O dear, this is really difficult to explain in English!). > > When I read the last chapter of "The other Wind" I was deeply moved. > > The image of the broken wall and the dead going to be free went to my > > heart. I think it s because in this concept you remain in some way > > "connected" with the world/the Universe. You loose your individual > > being, but you return to the whole Universe. To me it s like going > > home. > > > > Best wishes for 2005 > > Elke Anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 23 20:05:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:43:25 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2005 00:43:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.193] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2005 00:43:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jolly13anna@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71911 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2005 00:43:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2005 00:43:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2005 00:43:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2005 00:43:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2005 00:43:26 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.50 From: "jolly13anna" X-Originating-IP: 217.185.38.170 X-Yahoo-Profile: jolly13anna MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:43:25 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, everybody - and hello, Hannah, this is a very personal contribution to the discussion, but I decided to write it all the same. Hannah wrote: However I have been attempting to analyse further my reaction on the wall of stones. The whole theme of the Farthest Shore is about what happens when you try to deny or escape death. I still find this moving and profound, with the 'raise the hairs on the back of the neck' feeling. Fo example at the denouement: " 'By the word that will not be spoken until time's end I summoned thee. By the word that was spoken at the making of things I will release thee. Go free.' And bending over the blind man, who was crouched on his knees, Ged whispered in his ear, under the white tangled hair. Cob stood up. He looked about him slowly, with seeing eyes. He looked at Arren, and then at Ged. He spoke no word, but gazed at them with dark eyes. There was no anger in his face, no grief. Slowly he turned, and went off down the course of the Dry River, and soon was gone from sight. " The wall of stones first comes in, from memory (I'm sure someone will tell me if I'm wrong!) when Ged is trying to heal the son of his fisherman friend who runs ahead of him and Ged finds his own shadow waiting for him at the boundary. The idea of death as this quiet place, where wickedness, love and all other emotion is neutralised, with a retained identity but the feelings of life departed, has always struck deep chords for me. They say that death is the great taboo subject today as sex was 50 years ago, and for those of us in the second half of our lives, and those who mourn loved ones, understanding or relating to it becomes more pressing. Somehow it seems that in reinventing the dry land model as a mistake made by men in the past that can be undone, UKL is in a certain way following Cob's footsteps. Sorry if this offends! I m with you, Hannah, that "for those of us in the second half of our lives and those who mourn loved ones, understanding or relating to it (i.e. the mystery of death) becomes more pressing", because this is my situation at the moment: Five years ago my husband died, and today I came back from visiting my old mother, who s very ill. Last week she told us that she wanted to say good by to all her children and grandchildren, and so we all met around her bed this weekend and talked and laughed and wept with her and said good by. I think you are not able to do this, when you don t think a lot about which "concept" of dying and death will give you something like firm ground under your feet, so that you can look at the limitedness of our lives and accept it. It took me a long time to find my own concept and I m not finished yet. It helped a lot to talk with friends about their images and concepts and to read about such concepts in different cultures and religions and to find out how such a concept enables people to live a good life. I understand that UKL s "idea of death as a quiet place,... where the feelings of life are departed" is moving - it moves me too. But for me the idea of the "retained identity" without being connected is difficult. I think the identity of a person is always related to others, formed by and embedded in a society, a culture. In the christian concept of the paradise you also retain your identity, but you meet your loved ones again and together you life an everlasting life. UKL ( as I understand her) describes a different concept in The other Wind: In dying you give up your identity. You "go to be free", you become part of the cycle of life like animals and plants. Maybe in some way it s also something like an "everlasting life", but not for individuals, but only for the whole earth/universe. For me this concept is convincing and consoling because of it s "connectedness", which is more important to me than "retained identity". Hannah, I m not offended, but don t think it fair to compare UKL s "undoing" of the concept of the dry land with what Cob was doing. Cob s motive was to get power and hold on to power, power over life and death. As I see it UKL shows how to let go - and she shows it as always with a wonderful and moving story. Thanks to UKL and thanks to you all for helping me to think about difficult questions! Elke Anna ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 25 12:39:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.44]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:43:13 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2005 06:43:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2005 06:43:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94460 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2005 06:43:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2005 06:43:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2005 06:43:14 -0000 Received: from du-040-0041.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.41] helo=oemcomputer) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1CtKOk-0005sf-Ey for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 25 Jan 2005 06:41:59 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c502a9$026db540$29749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.143 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:11:18 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elke Anna What a wonderful response - many many thanks for extending your trust and sharing with us all. I think I shall go back and reread The Other Wind armed with your interpretation. Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "jolly13anna" To: Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 12:43 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] The other wind and the wall of stones > > > Hello, everybody - and hello, Hannah, > > this is a very personal contribution to the discussion, but I decided > to write it all the same. > > Hannah wrote: > > However I have been attempting to analyse further my reaction on the > wall of stones. The whole theme of the Farthest Shore is about what > happens when you try to deny or escape death. I still find this moving > and profound, with the 'raise the hairs on the back of the neck' > feeling. Fo example at the denouement: " 'By the word that will not be > spoken until time's end I summoned thee. By the word that was spoken > at the making of things I will release thee. Go free.' And bending > over the blind man, who was crouched on his knees, Ged > whispered in his ear, under the white tangled hair. Cob stood up. He > looked about him slowly, with seeing eyes. He looked at Arren, and > then at Ged. He spoke no word, but gazed at them with dark eyes. > There was no anger in his face, no grief. Slowly he turned, and went > off down the course of the Dry River, and soon was gone from sight. " > > The wall of stones first comes in, from memory (I'm sure someone will > tell me if I'm wrong!) when Ged is trying to heal the son of his > fisherman friend who runs ahead of him and Ged finds his own shadow > waiting for him at the boundary. The idea of death as this quiet > place, where wickedness, love and all other emotion is neutralised, > with a retained identity but the feelings of life departed, has always > struck deep chords for me. They say that death is the great taboo > subject today as sex was 50 years ago, and for those of > us in the second half of our lives, and those who mourn loved ones, > understanding or relating to it becomes more pressing. > > Somehow it seems that in reinventing the dry land model as a mistake > made by men in the past that can be undone, UKL is in a certain way > following Cob's footsteps. Sorry if this offends! > > > > > I m with you, Hannah, that "for those of us in the second half of our > lives and those who mourn loved ones, understanding or relating to it > (i.e. the mystery of death) becomes more pressing", because this is my > situation at the moment: Five years ago my husband died, and today I > came back from visiting my old mother, who s very ill. Last week she > told us that she wanted to say good by to all her children and > grandchildren, and so we all met around her bed this weekend and > talked and laughed and wept with her and said good by. > I think you are not able to do this, when you don t think a lot about > which "concept" of dying and death will give you something like firm > ground under your feet, so that you can look at the limitedness of our > lives and accept it. It took me a long time to find my own concept and > I m not finished yet. It helped a lot to talk with friends about their > images and concepts and to read about such concepts in different > cultures and religions and to find out how such a concept enables > people to live a good life. > > I understand that UKL s "idea of death as a quiet place,... where the > feelings of life are departed" is moving - it moves me too. But for me > the idea of the "retained identity" without being connected is > difficult. I think the identity of a person is always related to > others, formed by and embedded in a society, a culture. In the > christian concept of the paradise you also retain your identity, but > you meet your loved ones again and together you life an everlasting > life. > > UKL ( as I understand her) describes a different concept in The other > Wind: In dying you give up your identity. You "go to be free", you > become part of the cycle of life like animals and plants. Maybe in > some way it s also something like an "everlasting life", but not for > individuals, but only for the whole earth/universe. For me this > concept is convincing and consoling because of it s "connectedness", > which is more important to me than "retained identity". > > Hannah, I m not offended, but don t think it fair to compare UKL s > "undoing" of the concept of the dry land with what Cob was doing. Cob > s motive was to get power and hold on to power, power over life and > death. As I see it UKL shows how to let go - and she shows it as > always with a wonderful and moving story. > > Thanks to UKL and thanks to you all for helping me to think about > difficult questions! > > Elke Anna > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 21:55:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:01:33 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2005 07:01:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2005 07:01:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: residentspy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72377 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2005 07:01:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2005 07:01:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web80901.mail.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.95.64) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2005 07:01:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 69641 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Feb 2005 07:01:30 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=PhNcqLS/z9eApEZKiCmf+XGV5SVE46LPl6uMoh9PQTQPWkuEO+aryS/iA4r1KOgdaGnDQhZQn8FeaqH43gG9vOUfPfA3P67xY3dm9iP5eb8OdHkYT0L8OcLsuivQjTauA0Y22C4T0iocIGbOD0F5imgFkxLvzh0FQ3VMuwa0pqM= ; Message-ID: <20050214070125.69621.qmail@web80901.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Received: from [61.246.55.48] by web80901.mail.scd.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:01:25 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050122225545.GF1285@skunk.reutershealth.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.95.64 From: rhea daniel X-Yahoo-Profile: residentspy MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:01:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [the-ekumen] interview with UKL Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, came across an interview with UKL (nov/dec 2001) as I was generally surfing today. url is http://www.sfsite.com/03a/ul123.htm some interesting points: Your newest works have a strong reconciliatory air: not a compromise with patriarchy and tyranny, but a bringing together of masculine and feminine elements that seemed mutually alienated in your middle-period works like Always Coming Home and Tehanu. Have you mellowed? Or has your ideological emphasis simply shifted? Thank you; I like "reconciliatory not compromising." But I wonder why you find masculine and feminine elements "alienated" in Tehanu and not in A Wizard of Earthsea and The Farthest Shore, books which have no female characters of any importance. Absence is not alienation? Tehanu is the beginning of a genuine reconciliation. The first steps are the hard ones. As for the masculine and feminine elements in Always Coming Home, my own opinion is that it's in that book, of all my works, that the reunion, cooperation, harmony of the genders (among the Kesh) reach perhaps the highest degree. Of course, this would not be visible to people who perceive gender harmony only as a result of either one being superior to or dominating the other. Such people insist on describing Kesh society as "matriarchal", which is nonsense. Apparently their logic is: if it isn't patriarchal, it has to be matriarchal. Hierarchism dies very hard, doesn't it? As for mellowing, I'd like to be good-natured and open-minded, but certainly do not want to mellow into mere mushiness. Like pears that rot from the inside. I'd rather be like Cabemet. Except that would involved staying bottled up for years... As for ideology, the hell with it. All of it. The Other Wind completes a retraction or renunciation, begun in Tehanu and Tales from Earthsea, of the premises of the original Earthsea trilogy: magic itself is invalidated to a great degree. How do you intend the first three books to be read now? In their spontaneous, shall we say, majesty, or with the qualification of hindsight? Well, Nick, and when did you stop beating your wife? The assumptions stated in the first sentence of this question are simply wrong, which means that I can't answer but can only retort with questions. Why do you say magic is invalidated in the last three Earthsea books? On what evidence? Because Ged can't do it any more -- one man, who gave up his power knowing what he was doing and why? Has the School on Roke closed? Have the Old Powers died? Are the dragons grounded? Is the Patterner not still in his Grove, and is the Grove not the still and ever-moving center of the world? I will not say how I "intend" the books to be read; I have and want no control over my readers, except, of course, the sway of the stories themselves. Different people will read my trilogies different ways and that's as it should be. Because the first trilogy is more accessible to kids, they may stop with it, and then come back when they grow up, and go on with the second set. But if the second trilogy invalidated, or retracted, or revoked the first one, I wouldn't have written it. The second trilogy enlarges the first, which is very strong but narrow, leaving out far too much of the world. The second trilogy changes nothing in the first. It sees exactly the same world with different eyes. Almost, I would say, with two eyes, rather than one. All the books are, in large part, fictional studies of power. The first three see power mostly from the point of view of the powerful. The second three see power from the point of view of people who have none, or have lost it, or who can see their power as one of the illusions of mortality. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 20 20:23:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.28]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:10:44 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2005 21:10:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2005 21:10:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jolly13anna@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79609 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2005 21:10:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2005 21:10:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2005 21:10:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2005 21:10:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2005 21:10:37 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.37 From: "jolly13anna" X-Originating-IP: 217.185.38.167 X-Yahoo-Profile: jolly13anna MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:09:51 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Four Ways to Forgiveness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Hello everybody - I d like to start a discussion about UKL s "Four Ways to Forgiveness".This book is one of my top favourites together with Tehanu, The other Wind, The Left Hand of Darkness and The Dispossesed.It s astonishing that only few people know and like this book.In January 2004 somebody from this list wrote "Four Ways to Forgiveness is UKL s most underappreciated work!".I think so too! I d like to know if you can explain this fact. Somewhere I read that a critic said it s because the main topic is slavery and there s no longer any slavery in our modern societies. Now this really shows how you can keep your eyes shut to reality! To me the four stories linked to each other are very feminist stories: They describe the lives of three women in a society where there is slavery and a rigid separation of men and women and how in the liberation wars women are the last ones to achieve freedom. Now I want to tell you why I took a close look again at Four Ways to Forgiveness: Four weeks ago I wrote to you why I was so preoccupied with thinking about the wall of stones and the land of the deads and „going to be free“. Now since the death of my mother I m slowly coming back to normal life. But during these days I not only thought a lot about her „going to be free“, but also about the bond between mothers and daughters – you know that this is not always an easy thing. And then suddenly I remembered a scene from Four Ways to Forgiveness, from the story „Forgiveness Day“: Solly, a young and sometimes very naive Mobile sent to the Planet Werel, has been kidnapped and imprisoned together with her bodyguard Teyeo. Teyeo is a stiff and proud native officer. In the beginning Solly and Teyeo dislike each other profoundly, but they are locked up in the same cell and have to stick together. One day Solly has offended Teyeo by talking contemptuously about his country. She says: „Teyeo, I am very sorry! I didn´t mean to insult you! I honor you. You ve been all my hope and help.“ When I remembered this I reread the whole book and discovered a similar scene in the first story „Betrayals“: Abberkam, a chief of the liberation war, who has betrayed his people, says to Yoss, an old retired teacher from the city schools for freed slaves, who has nursed him in his illness: „I came here in shame and you honored me.“ And Yoss answers: „Why not? Who am I to judge you?“ This „I honor you“ touched me deeply because it expressed my feelings towards my mother. To me it s like a bridge over a deep river or a gorge, a bridge between two people. Although they are very different they can meet each other, accept each other and maybe love each other. There s no expression like this in my language. In German „ehren“ or „wŸrdigen“ is a more formal and public thing like getting a medal. So thanks again to UKL. It s really amazing: When I read one of her books, the words and sentences create vivid pictures in my mind. When I m finished with the book they fade away, but they pop up again unexspectedly and often help me understand something! Elke Anna ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Feb 20 20:23:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:28:51 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2005 21:28:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2005 21:28:53 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jolly13anna@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2858 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2005 21:28:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2005 21:28:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2005 21:28:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2005 21:28:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2005 21:28:52 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.35 From: "jolly13anna" X-Originating-IP: 217.185.38.167 X-Yahoo-Profile: jolly13anna MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:28:13 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Four Ways to Forgiveness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Sorry there s something wrong with the quotation marks of my computer! The Yahoo programm doesn t like them and I forgot to replace them! Now I ll send this letter again! Hello everybody I d like to start a discussion about UKL s "Four Ways to Forgiveness". This book is one of my top favourites together with Tehanu, The other Wind, The Left Hand of Darkness and The Dispossesed. It s astonishing that only few people know and like this book. In January 2004 somebody from this list wrote "Four Ways to Forgiveness is UKL s most underappreciated work!". I think so too! I d like to know if you can explain this fact. Somewhere I read that a critic said it s because the main topic is slavery and there s no longer any slavery in our society. Now this really shows how you can keep your eyes shut to reality! To me the four stories linked to each other are very feminist stories: They describe the lives of three women in a society where there is slavery and a rigid separation of men and women and how in the liberation wars women are the last ones to achieve freedom. Now I want to tell you why I took a close look again at Four Ways to Forgiveness: Four weeks ago I wrote to you why I was so preoccupied with thinking about the wall of stones and the land of the deads and "going to be free". Now since the death of my mother I m slowly coming back to normal life. But during these days I not only thought a lot about her "going to be free", but also about the bond between mothers and daughters.You know that this is not always an easy thing. And then suddenly I remembered a scene from Four Ways to Forgiveness, from the story "Forgiveness Day": Solly, a young and sometimes very naive Mobile sent to the Planet Werel, has been kidnapped and imprisoned together with her bodyguard Teyeo. Teyeo is a stiff and proud native officer. In the beginning Solly and Teyeo dislike each other profoundly, but they are locked up in the same cell and have to stick together. One day Solly has offended Teyeo by talking contemptuously about his country. She says: "Teyeo, I am very sorry! I didn t mean to insult you! I honor you. You ve been all my hope and help." When I remembered this I reread the whole book and discovered a similar scene in the first story "Betrayals": Abberkam, a chief of the liberation war, who has betrayed his people, says to Yoss, an old retired teacher from the city schools for freed slaves, who has nursed him in his illness: "I came here in shame and you honored me." And Yoss answers: "Why not? Who am I to judge you?" This "I honor you" touched me deeply because it expressed my feelings towards my mother. To me it s like a bridge over a deep river or a gorge, a bridge between two people. Although they are very different they can meet each other, accept each other and maybe love each other. There s no expression like this in my language. In German "ehren" or "wŸrdigen" is a more formal and public thing like getting a medal. So thanks again to UKL. It s really amazing: When I read one of her books, the words and sentences create vivid pictures in my mind. When I m finished with the book they fade away, but they pop up again unexspectedly and often help me understand something! Elke Anna ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Feb 21 16:52:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.38]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:50:38 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2005 17:50:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2005 17:50:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38954 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2005 17:50:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2005 17:50:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2005 17:50:28 -0000 Received: from du-040-0189.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.189] helo=oemcomputer) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1D3HhR-000D1C-HS for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:50:27 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c5183d$e1b16c20$bd749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.141 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:19:54 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Four Ways to Forgiveness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Elke Anna, Once again I relate very closely to what you say. I love 4 ways to Forgiveness; it is the one of UKLs later works that I go back and reread the most. A little while ago Jim quoted EM Forster's 'only connect' and I think what you are talking about brings this phrase to mind again - only in this case what we are seeing is the connection being formed between 2 indidividuals that is unexpected but profound. This word 'honour' that you are responding to is one that has been used in a lot of different ways over the years - often in a very male context of a code of correct conduct between men - UKL herself used it that way in The Dispossessed when Atro is talking of war - as you say the use here is different and moving and yet it seems is in the context of crossing the male-female traditional-radical divides. She is showing us that as feminists we should not undervalue the good things in the traditional male, but celebrate diversity. I loved the story of how Teyeo was taught to sit still when a tiny child, I see him as a person of great integrity hidden in this learned dignity. Similarly the shamed Abberkam, who had achieved much but also been dishonoured (and it is implied by some of the other stories is responsible for some shocking injustice against women), learns with Yoss to respect himself again as he learns to value her. The religion of the twin worlds of Yeowe and Werel is also fascinating and challenges our preconceptions, with the merciful Lady Tual and the Lord Kamye in two different traditions - all wrapped around the fact that Kamye is followed by both the 'dusty' assets and the Veots - the story of Kamye does not appear very inspiring in many ways and yet one responds deeply to the cry 'hold fast to the noble thing'. This seems to me to be the message of the books - look for and find this integrity and value and it can be found in many surprising places. Love to hear others' opinions. Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "jolly13anna" To: Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:28 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Four Ways to Forgiveness Sorry there s something wrong with the quotation marks of my computer! The Yahoo programm doesn t like them and I forgot to replace them! Now I ll send this letter again! Hello everybody I d like to start a discussion about UKL s "Four Ways to Forgiveness". This book is one of my top favourites together with Tehanu, The other Wind, The Left Hand of Darkness and The Dispossesed. It s astonishing that only few people know and like this book. In January 2004 somebody from this list wrote "Four Ways to Forgiveness is UKL s most underappreciated work!". I think so too! I d like to know if you can explain this fact. Somewhere I read that a critic said it s because the main topic is slavery and there s no longer any slavery in our society. Now this really shows how you can keep your eyes shut to reality! To me the four stories linked to each other are very feminist stories: They describe the lives of three women in a society where there is slavery and a rigid separation of men and women and how in the liberation wars women are the last ones to achieve freedom. Now I want to tell you why I took a close look again at Four Ways to Forgiveness: Four weeks ago I wrote to you why I was so preoccupied with thinking about the wall of stones and the land of the deads and "going to be free". Now since the death of my mother I m slowly coming back to normal life. But during these days I not only thought a lot about her "going to be free", but also about the bond between mothers and daughters.You know that this is not always an easy thing. And then suddenly I remembered a scene from Four Ways to Forgiveness, from the story "Forgiveness Day": Solly, a young and sometimes very naive Mobile sent to the Planet Werel, has been kidnapped and imprisoned together with her bodyguard Teyeo. Teyeo is a stiff and proud native officer. In the beginning Solly and Teyeo dislike each other profoundly, but they are locked up in the same cell and have to stick together. One day Solly has offended Teyeo by talking contemptuously about his country. She says: "Teyeo, I am very sorry! I didn t mean to insult you! I honor you. You ve been all my hope and help." When I remembered this I reread the whole book and discovered a similar scene in the first story "Betrayals": Abberkam, a chief of the liberation war, who has betrayed his people, says to Yoss, an old retired teacher from the city schools for freed slaves, who has nursed him in his illness: "I came here in shame and you honored me." And Yoss answers: "Why not? Who am I to judge you?" This "I honor you" touched me deeply because it expressed my feelings towards my mother. To me it s like a bridge over a deep river or a gorge, a bridge between two people. Although they are very different they can meet each other, accept each other and maybe love each other. There s no expression like this in my language. In German "ehren" or "wŸrdigen" is a more formal and public thing like getting a medal. So thanks again to UKL. It s really amazing: When I read one of her books, the words and sentences create vivid pictures in my mind. When I m finished with the book they fade away, but they pop up again unexspectedly and often help me understand something! Elke Anna Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Feb 21 10:15:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.45]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:44:33 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2005 03:44:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2005 03:44:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: bschrack1@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78553 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2005 03:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2005 03:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.202.59) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2005 03:44:35 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pcp07710909pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net[69.138.225.95]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with ESMTP id <2005022102545101400s4bo4e>; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 02:54:51 +0000 Message-ID: <42194C8C.9080706@comcast.net> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.202.59 From: Bonnie Schrack X-Yahoo-Profile: bonnieschrack MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:50:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Four Ways to Forgiveness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Elke Anna, My heart is with you in the loss of your mother. I suffered this 14 years ago. I hope your pain will be eased as a little more time passes, and you will know that her spirit lives. I so much share the feeling you and the other list member have expressed, about _Four Ways to Forgiveness_. It gives me such joy each time I re-read it. Among all the many characters in Le Guin who I love and admire, it is probably Rakam with whom I most identify -- a great character! And Havzhiva -- what a man ! About that wonderful phrase, "I honor you." It rang a bell. . . where had I heard that? Of course! In _The Other Wind_, when Lebannen has to go speak with Seserakh in the River House, which he hates doing. He finds the experience of meeting her brings him up short. In this great scene: ----------------- ...He could not see her features clearly. She was nearly as tall as he, and her eyes looked straight at him. "My friend Tenar," she said, "say, king to see king, face and face. I say: yes. I will." Half understanding, Lebannen bowed again. "You honor me, my lady." "Yes," she said. "I honor you." He hesitated. This was a different ground entirely. Her ground. .. . . [sentences skipped].... Courageous, Tenar had called her. He did not understand, but he knew that he had been in the presence of courage. All the anger that had filled him, brought him here, was gone, vanished. He had not been sucked down and suffocated, but brought up short in front of a rock, a high place in clean air, a truth. ----------------- This rock, this truth, are very much like the noble thing, to which one holds with courage in the _Four Ways_. He has glimpsed something great and noble in this person, for whom a short while earlier he had felt such disrespect and annoyance. Even in people whom we don't understand, we can suddenly perceive this truth. I'm always interested in these language and cultural differences, which you brought up, saying that German has no expression equivalent to "I honor you," at least in the way it's used in these situations. This made me curious, and I went to my big Oxford-Duden. In addition to the words you mentioned, it has "Hochachtung" for honor, and also says it's possible to express "hold somebody in honor" with "jmdn. achten." What do you think about that phrase, is it just as formal, or does it have the wrong connotations? It's fascinating how different languages reflect cultures, concepts, and feelings. You've touched me deeply in your beautiful description of how Solly's and Yoss' honoring of Teyeo and Abberkam as fellow beings worthy of sacred respect, mirrored your feeling about your mother. I share this feeling about many of my ancestors (those who were Amish, for example), whose beliefs and choices I cannot share, but who were courageous, strong and resolute in holding to what they held holy. I think I'll remember your words when I come to the day of my father's passing. Bonnie Elke Anna wrote: > > Hello everybody - > I d like to start a discussion about UKL s "Four Ways to > Forgiveness".This book is one of my top favourites together with > Tehanu, The other Wind, The Left Hand of Darkness and The > Dispossesed.It s astonishing that only few people know and like this > book.In January 2004 somebody from this list wrote "Four Ways to > Forgiveness is UKL s most underappreciated work!".I think so too! > I d like to know if you can explain this fact. Somewhere I read that > a critic said it s because the main topic is slavery and there s no > longer any slavery in our modern societies. Now this really shows how > you can keep your eyes shut to reality! > To me the four stories linked to each other are very feminist stories: > They describe the lives of three women in a society where there is > slavery and a rigid separation of men and women and how in the > liberation wars women are the last ones to achieve freedom. > > Now I want to tell you why I took a close look again at Four Ways to > Forgiveness: > Four weeks ago I wrote to you why I was so preoccupied with thinking > about the wall of stones and the land of the deads and „going to be > free“. Now since the death of my mother I m slowly coming back to > normal life. But during these days I not only thought a lot about her > „going to be free“, but also about the bond between > mothers and > daughters – you know that this is not always an easy thing. And then > suddenly I remembered a scene from Four Ways to Forgiveness, from the > story „Forgiveness Day“: Solly, a young and sometimes very > naive > Mobile sent to the Planet Werel, has been kidnapped and imprisoned > together with her bodyguard Teyeo. Teyeo is a stiff and proud native > officer. In the beginning Solly and Teyeo dislike each other > profoundly, but they are locked up in the same cell and have to stick > together. One day Solly has offended Teyeo by talking contemptuously > about his country. She says: „Teyeo, I am very sorry! I > didn´t mean to > insult you! I honor you. You ve been all my hope and help.“ > When I remembered this I reread the whole book and discovered a > similar scene in the first story „Betrayals“: Abberkam, a > chief of the > liberation war, who has betrayed his people, says to Yoss, an old > retired teacher from the city schools for freed slaves, who has nursed > him in his illness: „I came here in shame and you honored > me.“ And > Yoss answers: „Why not? Who am I to judge you?“ > This „I honor you“ touched me deeply because it expressed > my feelings > towards my mother. To me it s like a bridge over a deep river or a > gorge, a bridge between two people. Although they are very different > they can meet each other, accept each other and maybe love each other. > There s no expression like this in my language. In German > „ehren“ or > „wŸrdigen“ is a more formal and public thing like getting > a medal. > So thanks again to UKL. It s really amazing: When I read one of her > books, the words and sentences create vivid pictures in my mind. When > I m finished with the book they fade away, but they pop up again > unexspectedly and often help me understand something! > > Elke Anna > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Feb 21 16:52:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.48]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:44:44 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2005 17:44:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2005 17:44:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: rubykaye@nyc.rr.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28958 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2005 17:44:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2005 17:44:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com) (24.29.109.6) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2005 17:44:41 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer.nyc.rr.com (66-108-190-141.nyc.rr.com [66.108.190.141]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j1LHibIe017088 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:44:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20050221121125.032f2cd0@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> X-Sender: rubykaye@pop-server.nyc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 24.29.109.6 From: "Kathleen M." X-Yahoo-Profile: rubykaye MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:39:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Four Ways to Forgiveness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain "Four Ways to Forgiveness" really is an extraordinary work (I think I may have been the one who said that earlier) and every time I read it, it touches me more deeply. There's another great story - I think it's in "Birthday of the World" - that is another Werel/Yeowe story - actually long enough to qualify as a "Fifth Way" - it's entitled "Old Music and the Slave Women" and tells the story of the kidnapping of Old Music - an Ekumen mentor to Teyeo in the earlier story - and the relationships he develops with the assets - mostly women - who lived on the estate where he was held. Like the other Werel/Yeowe stories, it's a story of revolution and what happens to people in the midst of it. I'm not sure why these stories are not more popular among UKL's works, but that may just be my perception. I think it is possible that the subject of slavery is so painful to people that they resist examining it, the incredible damage that it causes, how deep the damage is and how long it lasts throughout the culture. (And it's not that far in our past. There are still quite a few people living today in the U.S. whose grandparents or great-grandparents were slaves.) At the same time, these stories show the wonderful resilience of people and especially the deep importance of this respect or "honoring" that UKL has portrayed, as you mentioned. Of course, slavery is far from gone, although we have made some strides in making it illegal in certain forms - at least in some parts of the world. Unfortunately, some social scientists suggest that in it's newer forms - debt slavery that is suffered by some people in developing countries, where indigenous economies have been destroyed and people are forced to sell the labor of their families to corporations to survive - this type of slavery actually affects far more people today than were enslaved in Africa and North and South America in the 19th Century. The living and working conditions of these people are often almost identical to those under slavery and the people are, for all practical purposes, in bondage just as permanent and severe. But that's another story. Kathleen At 09:28 PM 02/20/2005 +0000, you wrote: >Sorry there s something wrong with the quotation marks of my >computer! The Yahoo programm doesn t like them and I forgot to replace >them! Now I ll send this letter again! > >Hello everybody >I d like to start a discussion about UKL s "Four Ways to >Forgiveness". This book is one of my top favourites together with >Tehanu, The other Wind, The Left Hand of Darkness and The Dispossesed. >It s astonishing that only few people know and like this book. In >January 2004 somebody from this list wrote "Four Ways to Forgiveness >is UKL s most underappreciated work!". I think so too! >I d like to know if you can explain this fact. Somewhere I read that >a critic said it s because the main topic is slavery and there s no >longer any slavery in our society. Now this really shows how you can >keep your eyes shut to reality! >To me the four stories linked to each other are very feminist stories: >They describe the lives of three women in a society where there is >slavery and a rigid separation of men and women and how in the >liberation wars women are the last ones to achieve freedom. > >Now I want to tell you why I took a close look again at Four Ways to >Forgiveness: >Four weeks ago I wrote to you why I was so preoccupied with thinking >about the wall of stones and the land of the deads and "going to be >free". Now since the death of my mother I m slowly coming back to >normal life. But during these days I not only thought a lot about her >"going to be free", but also about the bond between mothers and >daughters.You know that this is not always an easy thing. And then >suddenly I remembered a scene from Four Ways to Forgiveness, from the >story "Forgiveness Day": Solly, a young and sometimes very naive >Mobile sent to the Planet Werel, has been kidnapped and imprisoned >together with her bodyguard Teyeo. Teyeo is a stiff and proud native >officer. In the beginning Solly and Teyeo dislike each other >profoundly, but they are locked up in the same cell and have to stick >together. One day Solly has offended Teyeo by talking contemptuously >about his country. She says: "Teyeo, I am very sorry! I didn t mean to >insult you! I honor you. You ve been all my hope and help." >When I remembered this I reread the whole book and discovered a >similar scene in the first story "Betrayals": Abberkam, a chief of the >liberation war, who has betrayed his people, says to Yoss, an old >retired teacher from the city schools for freed slaves, who has nursed >him in his illness: "I came here in shame and you honored me." And >Yoss answers: "Why not? Who am I to judge you?" >This "I honor you" touched me deeply because it expressed my feelings >towards my mother. To me it s like a bridge over a deep river or a >gorge, a bridge between two people. Although they are very different >they can meet each other, accept each other and maybe love each >other. >There s no expression like this in my language. In German "ehren" or >"wŸrdigen" is a more formal and public thing like getting a medal. >So thanks again to UKL. It s really amazing: When I read one of her >books, the words and sentences create vivid pictures in my mind. When >I m finished with the book they fade away, but they pop up again >unexspectedly and often help me understand something! > >Elke Anna > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 07 06:52:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.46]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2005 20:23:33 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 04:23:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 04:23:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 86974 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2005 04:23:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2005 04:23:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.32) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2005 04:23:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 04:20:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 04:20:19 -0000 X-Sender: death@sluggy.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9010 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2005 22:45:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2005 22:45:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2005 22:45:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2005 22:45:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.93] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2005 22:45:08 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.28 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "sirteleute" X-Yahoo-Profile: sirteleute X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 07 Mar 2005 04:20:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 22:45:01 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Ethnicity of the people in UKLâs Ekumen books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I found Easton Press versions of "The Dispossessed", "The Telling", and "Four Ways to Forgiveness" at my local used bookstore for 30 bucks each. Needless to say, I bought them up but as I am looking through them, I'm wondering about the accuracy of the illustrations. I remember the main character of "The Telling" being Indian but I don't remember what where the skin colors of the characters in "The Dispossessed" or the natives of Aka. I haven't read "Four Ways to Forgiveness", so info for that would be good too. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 07 06:52:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.20]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2005 21:51:22 -0800 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 05:51:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.159] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 05:51:25 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: melanie-simet@uiowa.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26910 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2005 05:50:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2005 05:50:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.252) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2005 05:50:50 -0000 Received: from sdn-ap-004neomahp0281.dialsprint.net ([63.186.33.27] helo=Goosey) by pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1D8B8f-0006Kl-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 06 Mar 2005 21:50:48 -0800 To: Message-ID: <000001c522d9$9006a790$1b21ba3f@Goosey> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 207.217.121.252 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Melanie Simet" X-Yahoo-Profile: go_seaward MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 23:50:19 -0600 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Ethnicity of the people in UKL's Ekumen books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> I don't remember what where the skin colors of the >> characters in "The Dispossessed" or the natives of Aka. Well, in the Dispossessed, they're all covered with hair/fur--so hair color might be a better question. :) I don't remember the descriptions though. On p. 34 of my copy of The Telling (American trade paperback) there is the following sentence: "People assumed from her physical type--short, slight, dark-skinned--that she came from the east of the continent." I only looked through quickly, but from this I would assume that there's a range of appearances on Aka. This may or may not apply to skin color. P. 49 has a "dirt-colored man," but who knows what kind of dirt? Melanie ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 07 06:52:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 01:26:05 -0800 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 09:26:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 09:26:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4476 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2005 09:26:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2005 09:26:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grunt16.ihug.co.nz) (203.109.254.56) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2005 09:26:03 -0000 Received: from p1743-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (hppav) [203.173.246.219] by grunt16.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1D8ET2-0003XK-00; Mon, 07 Mar 2005 22:24:00 +1300 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 203.109.254.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Aquila" X-Yahoo-Profile: aquila1nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:26:28 +1300 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Ethnicity of the people in UKL's Ekum en books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >From memory, in Four Ways to Forgiveness the slave class are "dust coloured" a base grey colour? varying from beige to purple tinged - could be wrong about that; and the owner class are very dark skinned. Of course there is more mixing of the two than they admit to noticing. All have eyes with no whites. I think there was something about the effects of the sun, with the purplish tinge protecting them from some rays, but I could be muddling. Aquila > -----Original Message----- > From: sirteleute [mailto:death@sluggy.net] > Sent: Monday, 7 March 2005 11:45 a.m. > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [the-ekumen] Ethnicity of the people in UKLâs Ekumen books > > > > > > Hi, I found Easton Press versions of "The Dispossessed", "The > Telling", and "Four Ways to Forgiveness" at my local used bookstore > for 30 bucks each. Needless to say, I bought them up but as I am > looking through them, I'm wondering about the accuracy of the > illustrations. I remember the main character of "The Telling" being > Indian but I don't remember what where the skin colors of the > characters in "The Dispossessed" or the natives of Aka. I haven't read > "Four Ways to Forgiveness", so info for that would be good too. > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 07 06:52:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 01:26:19 -0800 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 09:26:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 09:26:19 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30600 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2005 09:26:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2005 09:26:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grunt2.ihug.co.nz) (203.109.254.42) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2005 09:26:18 -0000 Received: from p1743-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (hppav) [203.173.246.219] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1D8EVC-0000Cr-00; Mon, 07 Mar 2005 22:26:15 +1300 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000001c522d9$9006a790$1b21ba3f@Goosey> X-Originating-IP: 203.109.254.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: "Aquila" X-Yahoo-Profile: aquila1nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:28:43 +1300 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Ethnicity of the people in UKL's Ekumen books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > P. 49 has a "dirt-colored man," but who knows what kind of dirt? > > Melanie Indeed, dirt coloured is bout as useful a description as skin-coloured. Aquila ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 07 16:56:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.44]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 12:03:30 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 20:03:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 20:03:32 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: death@sluggy.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40305 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2005 20:03:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2005 20:03:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.24) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2005 20:03:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 20:01:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 20:01:18 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.24 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "sirteleute" X-Yahoo-Profile: sirteleute MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 20:01:11 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Ethnicity of the people in UKL's Ekumen books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well... The Telling's illustrations pass the test due to the vagueness. The Dispossessed fails as the illustration feature distinctly fur-less people with very pale skin. Now I need to check FWtF when I get home. The store also had a copy of The Left hand of Darkness and the characters did look somewhat Native American or Inuit (Which I think is correct, been a while since I read he book) but I really didn't like the style. Did not match up with how I remember the book feeling. Thanks for all your help. ^_^ --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Aquila" wrote: > > P. 49 has a "dirt-colored man," but who knows what kind of dirt? > > > > Melanie > > Indeed, dirt coloured is bout as useful a description as skin- coloured. > > Aquila ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Mar 07 16:56:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.46]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 12:17:49 -0800 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 20:17:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 20:17:51 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84376 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2005 20:17:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2005 20:17:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.36) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2005 20:17:49 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by mail.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id j27KAFcS003915 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:10:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:10:21 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20050307201021.GJ12107@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Originating-IP: 65.246.141.36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:10:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Ethnicity of the people in UKL's Ekumen books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sirteleute scripsit: > The Dispossessed fails as the illustration feature > distinctly fur-less people with very pale skin. Both Urrasti and Anarresti have iron-gray fur, very short on the face, but Urrasti typically shave their faces. That's why in the original version of "Vaster Than Empires And More Slow", the Urrasti are called "Hairy Cetians" as opposed to "Low Cetians". This distinction is lost in later works, as well as the second version of VTEAMS, where just "Cetian" is used. -- Even a refrigerator can conform to the XML John Cowan Infoset, as long as it has a door sticker jcowan@reutershealth.com saying "No information items inside". http://www.reutershealth.com --Eve Maler http://www.ccil.org/~cowan ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 08 08:36:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.49]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 19:21:52 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2005 03:21:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.95] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2005 03:21:55 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: death@sluggy.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68491 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2005 03:21:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2005 03:21:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2005 03:20:49 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 23:15:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 23:15:34 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050307201021.GJ12107@skunk.reutershealth.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.44 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "sirteleute" X-Yahoo-Profile: sirteleute MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 23:15:31 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Ethnicity of the people in UKL's Ekumen books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I found some pictures of the illustrations for The Left Hand of Darkness and the Dispossessed on an Ebay auction if anyone is interested. I would take some pictures myself but I don't have a camera. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=377&item=4533501229&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6949858475&fromMakeTrack=true The other illustration in The Dispossessed shows Vea and she looks equally hairless allover and light skinned. --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, John Cowan wrote: > sirteleute scripsit: > > > The Dispossessed fails as the illustration feature > > distinctly fur-less people with very pale skin. > > Both Urrasti and Anarresti have iron-gray fur, very short on the face, > but Urrasti typically shave their faces. That's why in the original version > of "Vaster Than Empires And More Slow", the Urrasti are called "Hairy Cetians" > as opposed to "Low Cetians". This distinction is lost in later works, as well > as the second version of VTEAMS, where just "Cetian" is used. > > -- > Even a refrigerator can conform to the XML John Cowan > Infoset, as long as it has a door sticker jcowan@r... > saying "No information items inside". http://www.reutershealth.com > --Eve Maler http://www.ccil.org/~cowan ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Mar 08 08:36:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.49]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 19:26:42 -0800 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2005 03:26:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2005 03:26:27 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6067 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2005 03:26:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2005 03:26:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.36) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2005 03:26:25 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by mail.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id j283PWMW006057 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:25:33 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20050308032532.GA15467@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: <20050307201021.GJ12107@skunk.reutershealth.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Originating-IP: 65.246.141.36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:25:33 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Ethnicity of the people in UKL's Ekumen books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sirteleute scripsit: > The other illustration in The Dispossessed shows Vea and she looks > equally hairless allover and light skinned. I checked: the Urrasti (or at least the Ioti, or at least the rich ones) shave all over, not just their faces. -- All Norstrilians knew what laughter was: John Cowan it was "pleasurable corrigible malfunction". http://www.reutershealth.com --Cordwainer Smith, Norstrilia jcowan@reutershealth.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Mar 17 17:01:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.44]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:16:55 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 20:16:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 20:16:56 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 87599 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2005 20:16:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2005 20:16:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2005 20:16:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 20:16:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 20:16:48 -0000 X-Sender: amandarouse@sbcglobal.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40094 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2005 19:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2005 19:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2005 19:30:39 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 19:30:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 19:30:39 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.45 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 67.117.30.69 From: "sleestax75" X-Yahoo-Profile: sleestax75 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 17 Mar 2005 20:16:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 19:30:17 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Trying to find the name of a short story Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I just found this community.....I've been looking for the name of a Ursula short story I read a while back, probably written 1970's- 1980's.... It's about a town...that is kind of utopian, they're involved in some kind of parade(?) and at a certain time in a young adult's life they are shown this sad, neglected child in a basement who exists this way for others to lead the life they do. That's about all I remember!! If it rings a bell to anyone, will you please let me know the title?? Thanks! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Mar 17 17:01:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:30:37 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 20:30:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.36] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 20:30:39 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62534 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2005 20:30:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2005 20:30:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2005 20:30:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 20:30:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 20:30:34 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.45 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 194.72.9.17 From: "vilaphile" X-Yahoo-Profile: vilaphile MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 20:30:20 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Trying to find the name of a short story Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > That's about all I remember!! If it rings a bell to anyone, will > you please let me know the title?? > > Thanks! Hi - It's the Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas. If you look back down our discussion I think we had a chat about it a while ago. Hope you hang around You can read it here - it seems to be available in many places, and I think this is legitimate http://lavka.lib.ru/text/hugo/Omelas_.htm Alison ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Mar 17 17:01:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:39:53 -0800 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 20:39:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.97] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 20:39:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: hhw@sondryfolk.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12080 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2005 20:39:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2005 20:39:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wbm3.pair.net) (209.68.3.66) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2005 20:39:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 90444 invoked by uid 65534); 17 Mar 2005 20:39:45 -0000 Received: from 134.10.176.32 ([134.10.176.32]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user hhw@sondryfolk.net) by webmail3.pair.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:39:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <51226.134.10.176.32.1111091985.squirrel@webmail3.pair.com> In-Reply-To: References: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Originating-IP: 209.68.3.66 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "heather w" X-Yahoo-Profile: hhwsondry MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:39:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Trying to find the name of a short story Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hi, I just found this community.....I've been looking for the name > of a Ursula short story I read a while back, probably written 1970's- > 1980's.... This is probably "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" from her collection _The Winds Twelve Quarters_. It's also posted online in various places, in breach of copyright from what I can tell since none of the sites I saw said otherwise. (UKL list some of her work available for free online here: http://ursulakleguin.com/Index-Work.html but Omelas is not on that list.) Heather ........................................ heather whipple hhw@sondryfolk.net http://www.sondryfolk.net/hhw ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Mar 17 17:01:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.50]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:00:59 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 21:01:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.36] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 21:01:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65679 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2005 21:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2005 21:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2005 21:00:39 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 21:00:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 21:00:39 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <51226.134.10.176.32.1111091985.squirrel@webmail3.pair.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 194.72.9.17 From: "vilaphile" X-Yahoo-Profile: vilaphile MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:00:15 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Trying to find the name of a short story Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (UKL list some > of her work available for free online here: http://ursulakleguin.com/Index-Work.html > but Omelas is not on that list.) > > Heather Dang! I thought that one I linked to was legit. So, in conclusion, Ursula Le Guin's work is available in all good bookshops A ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Mar 18 08:57:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.40]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 23:17:54 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2005 07:17:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.35] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2005 07:17:58 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 12266 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2005 07:17:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2005 07:17:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2005 07:17:55 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2005 07:16:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2005 07:16:59 -0000 X-Sender: stillman@vassar.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89932 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2005 06:32:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2005 06:32:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.vassar.edu) (143.229.1.32) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2005 06:32:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 13419 invoked on mail01 by uid 0); 18 Mar 2005 01:32:02 -0500 Received: from 24-161-126-246.hvc.rr.com (HELO ?192.168.1.104?) (stillman@24.161.126.246) by mail01.vassar.edu with SMTP; 18 Mar 2005 01:32:02 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 143.229.1.32 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Peter G. Stillman" X-Yahoo-Profile: gwfhegel X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 18 Mar 2005 07:16:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:22:23 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Trying to find the name of a short story Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Easiest available ppbk is probably The Wind's Twelve Quarters, widely available new & used. (It has other great stories, too.) Peter G Stillman > (UKL list some >> of her work available for free online here: >http://ursulakleguin.com/Index-Work.html >> but Omelas is not on that list.) >> >> Heather > > >Dang! I thought that one I linked to was legit. So, in conclusion, >Ursula Le Guin's work is available in all good bookshops > >A > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Peter G. Stillman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Mar 19 14:59:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 01:24:10 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2005 09:24:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.96] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2005 09:24:10 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 61146 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2005 09:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2005 09:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2005 09:24:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2005 09:23:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2005 09:23:59 -0000 X-Sender: tlesen@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51331 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2005 01:15:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2005 01:15:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2005 01:15:36 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2005 01:15:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2005 01:15:34 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.50 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.151.126.253 From: "Tony" X-Yahoo-Profile: tlesen X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 19 Mar 2005 09:23:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 01:15:08 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] map of Orsinia Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit has anyone ever come across a map of Le Guin's Orsinia? I even wrote to the dear Ms Le Guin many years ago and she personally replied that she wasn't quite sure where her own map of Orsinia was and apologized for that. If I can't find one, I'm thinking of trying to draw one myself based on the various clues in her stories and Malafrena. When I met Ms Le Guin at a book signing at Powell's bookstore in 1992, I asked her to inscribe my copy of Malafrena with "to Tony, an Orsinian at heart" which she gladly did, and she signed her name as "Ursula K. Le Guin, Oregonian at heart". ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Mar 23 18:08:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:15:03 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2005 21:15:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2005 21:15:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 28606 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2005 21:15:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2005 21:15:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2005 21:15:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2005 21:15:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2005 21:15:00 -0000 X-Sender: nickmatteo@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29693 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2005 18:26:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2005 18:26:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2005 18:26:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2005 18:26:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2005 18:26:02 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 134.53.96.154 From: "Nick Matteo" X-Yahoo-Profile: nickmatteo X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 23 Mar 2005 21:14:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:26:01 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: map of Orsinia Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With a related request -- Does anyone have a map of Gethen also? I'm reading the Left Hand of Darkness, and a map would be a great companion. Thanks, Nick ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Apr 02 14:40:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.44]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:27:43 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2005 19:27:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2005 19:27:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: elke.anna.lang@gmx.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90324 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2005 19:27:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2005 19:27:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2005 19:27:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2005 19:27:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2005 19:27:44 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.38 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 217.185.2.110 From: "jolly13anna" X-Yahoo-Profile: jolly13anna MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 19:27:44 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] New edition of UKL s short stories Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everybody, since January there s a series of new editions of UKL s short stories coming out by Perennial - HarperCollins Publishers. These pocket books have simple and elegant and really nice covers (some of my old ones have hideous covers!). You can look at them in amazon: Orsinian Tales, The Wind s twelve Quarters, the Compass Rose, A Fisherman of the Inland Sea and Four Ways to Forgiveness. I ll get them all! Elke Anna ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Jul 02 08:42:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:24:21 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=J8dX8U1O0J3e1lT7O+Ap3b7aZIyZv0heySVuovdlvUvFRJwoT2XNLVgKOAwUo1yVjBa14jf3Yt8UJbdBryUEYX7zMDvBnJS5YxWQhmFvT0dNOKFgtdN4zSViSeEa+SF0; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2005 19:24:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2005 19:24:23 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97318 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2005 19:24:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jun 2005 19:24:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.66) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2005 19:24:18 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfl3r.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.212.123] helo=computer) by pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1Do4dw-0003ir-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:24:13 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.20050630121755.009e15b0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.66 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:19:56 -0700 Subject: [the-ekumen] Le Guin horoscope Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Satirical article from The Onion presenting horoscopes for star signs based on science-fiction writers: >LeGuin (Jan. 3÷Mar. 14) >Your attempt to build a peaceful, agrarian matriarchy in the former >northern-Californian archipelago fails miserably when the thousands of >cat-fights breaking out amongst the basket-weaving lodgers are traced back >to overexposure to winsome folk music. OK, I give. Too much "winsome folk music": that sounds like me. Full thing is at: David Bratman Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 07 12:20:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 09:45:40 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=nIBeJzq0jZ8dz+8bwrdceNegNiX2xNZHvs1UPdFuUXimr068BBpIuAmvcRQo/b2HPZLSioB7+P/09tGuskxsiJzKDURF8Xr1YBdDsbOUtaUjY10YVUW14VeoZVOmd0Z1; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2005 16:45:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2005 16:45:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 13115 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2005 16:45:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2005 16:45:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2005 16:45:39 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2005 16:45:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2005 16:45:35 -0000 X-Sender: char@userfriendlytech.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67106 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2005 16:30:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2005 16:30:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2005 16:30:49 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2005 16:30:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2005 16:30:17 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 24.19.146.177 From: "osmanchar" X-Yahoo-Profile: osmanchar X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 05 Jul 2005 16:45:34 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 16:30:15 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] authors similar to Le Guin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all. I'm new to this forum, but not new to Le Guin's writing. I'm in the process of collecting all of her fiction works, largely from used bookstores. Lately I've been reading Tehanu over and over. I think it is one of the first good fiction stories I've found about a middle-aged woman. Someone I can identify with. I savor the mundane details, the way they add depth and meaning to the story. It's refresing to read about people who have to cook and clean, no matter what adventures come their way. Is there anyone else who writes this way? Orson Scott Card said in the intro to Ender's Game that most adventure stories are written about adolescents--folks with independence and no responsibilities. I'm getting older, I guess, and that sort of thing is getting boring to me. Responsibility may tie a person down a bit, but it adds a depth to life that I just didn't have without the roots. I'd like to read more about people who do grow up, put down roots, sweep floors, take care of others, and live deep. I don't think this precludes adventures, it just makes them more complicated. So...Le Guin is writing these stories, but I read much faster than she writes...is anyone else writing like this? --Charlene Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 17 12:17:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:48:33 -0700 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2005 17:48:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.95] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2005 17:48:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: elke.anna.lang@gmx.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75333 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2005 17:48:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2005 17:48:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.67) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2005 17:48:32 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2005 17:43:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by mailer1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2005 17:43:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2005 17:43:44 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.201.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 217.185.1.163 From: "jolly13anna" X-Yahoo-Profile: jolly13anna Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:43:43 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Authors similar to Leguin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Charlene, hello everybody - I can t tell you anything about authors similar to Leguin. But I can tell you what I did when the Ekumen went to hibernate in spring and early summer! I began to search the archive looking for issues already discussed. And doing this I discovered a discussion about SFWA Grand Mastership and who are the best SF authors in the next generation , the generation after Ursula Leguin. David Bratman wrote in January 2003: ...future Grand Masters aplenty. I cannot image Connie Willis being anything other than top of the list among writers who began in the late 1970s and 1980s... So I began reading her books during the No-Activity-Time of this list and spent a very happy spring. The first one I read was To say nothing of the Dog (the only one translated in German), but since this time I ve read all her books including her Christmas Stories! I m deeply impressed by her stories, especially by Doomsday Book. Therefore many thanks to David Bratman! So I would recommend the archive to you, Charlene! Maybe you can discover some interesting topics about other SF authors too! Elke Anna Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 17 12:30:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:08:27 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=hy30GQXZjXxN+5+cHLgutjm8T0BvqdWlgPSHhVgal57roX5/ss4Upsmu0X70Jty04I3zC7EUI9MGnBljsjv94KfQsWoYIewPXRDcmfYadsV6QOaSA/kcSznVxCJv6FCT; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2005 21:08:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.36] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2005 21:08:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: rajiv@yorku.ca X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89853 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2005 21:08:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2005 21:08:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2005 21:08:27 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2005 21:08:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2005 21:08:27 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 64.231.136.126 From: "rajiv_rawat" X-Yahoo-Profile: rajiv_rawat Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:08:27 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Hain Cycle Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey folks, It's been a long time since I posted to the list. I just wanted to say how excited I am that Ursula K Leguin is style writing stories set in the Hain Cycle Universe. The Telling was particularly good. I wanted to see if anyone out there has been putting together a definite guide to the Hain Universe. There is a good web site here: http://hem.passagen.se/peson42/lgw/hain.html Now I don't want that to sound like I want to fashion a definite linear science fiction reading for Leguin's work, which really shines by lending itself to intense and amazing anthropological speculation. I am thinking though that it might be fun, especially as Earth's future is caught up in it (Shevek's conversation with the Terran ambassador at the end of The Dispossessed in particular, as well as the Unist movement in The Telling). The age of the Enemy remains also a great mystery. Did it happen? I couldn't quite figure it out, but there is a huge gap between the League of All Worlds and the Ekumen which are almost the same. - Rajiv Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 17 12:31:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.48]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:36:02 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=UycU8z2BSuB9ataU0tWOj9xNlYNbxiVaZHGA7A45GsPaFpreXFOmOVGm+GexB6wFyTW9PMhMc5BMbNI4CId8/c5pUPmtcHLmUpPP3R3il0upyJ8sz5xqcvAuF4n3dEmz; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2005 04:36:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2005 04:36:06 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47503 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2005 04:36:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2005 04:36:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.36) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2005 04:36:04 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by mail.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id j6G4a2TW023266 for ; Sat, 16 Jul 2005 00:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 16 Jul 2005 00:36:03 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20050716043601.GF7620@NYCMJCOWA2> References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Originating-IP: 65.246.141.36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: "John.Cowan" From: "John.Cowan" X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 00:36:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hain Cycle Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit rajiv_rawat scripsit: > The age of the Enemy remains also a great mystery. Did it happen? I > couldn't quite figure it out, but there is a huge gap between the > League of All Worlds and the Ekumen which are almost the same. The League is one of the Ekumen's aspects after the Enemy is defeated. Not all worlds are taken over; in particular, Alterra is not. -- Principles. You can't say A is John Cowan made of B or vice versa. All mass http://www.reutershealth.com is interaction. --Richard Feynman http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 17 12:31:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 16 Jul 2005 01:44:57 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=i1ev5MNagFXJmjcVy+lEAt0RuNXn+btb8/HPN4gVo7+OWDLfeFpz0HaBo0c6w6wPeeG775VbGnreSBgx0d7BPVQwy8+1xIm9PTttUbACjSmdoC0ytdRahpfUJ/iWUR9W; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2005 08:44:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.36] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2005 08:44:57 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7638 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2005 08:44:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2005 08:44:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay2.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.142) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2005 08:44:52 -0000 Received: from du-040-0052.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.52] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay2.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DtiHp-000NDD-7G for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 16 Jul 2005 09:44:41 +0100 Message-ID: <002801c589e2$9b4ac530$34749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.142 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 09:44:35 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] Gifts and poetry Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have just been rereading 'Gifts' which my dear husband got from me through Amazon before it was available in the UK. I was struck by this passage: 'I recited one of the chants for Gry. It exalted my heart, but she wasn't much impressed. She preferred stories. I couldn't explain to her how the poems I read fascinated me. I tried to work out how they were put together, how this word returned, or this sound or rhyme came back, or the beat wove through the words. All this hung in my mind as I went about the rest of the day in the darkness. I would try to fit words of my own into the patterns I had found, and sometimes it worked. That gave me intense, pure pleasure, a pleasure that endured, returning each time I thought of those words, that pattern, that poem.' Of course UKL is a poet as well as a wonderful story teller. In some ways it may be her poetic mind that makes her stories come alive so magnificently, with their complex patterns and wonderful words. But like Gry her public buy her stories but not her poems. Any thoughts? other times when she has written about poetry? 'Bright the hawk's path....' wanted to finish poetically with that line of poetry which I think is from one of the Earthsea books (perhaps the lay of Erreth Akbe????) but a quick flick through failed to find it - the first bit reverberated in my mind but then my memory petered out - bet one of you can finish it for me! Hannah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 17 12:31:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.39]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 16 Jul 2005 01:56:19 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=fpELqI+fEWXp/ipPkwDSQLFwQHoeuL21IGD+5swN39jkhZMPhZZ6e6vCiyvdeVcx1bG8VoyQ80ZfaPjl+gjtVFPsg8pI1SHfrQ+7Py8RkQpMng9EN5KavA9OxVz3wdeY; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2005 08:56:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.106] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2005 08:56:20 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: yonat@ootips.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12358 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2005 08:56:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2005 08:56:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail8.atl.registeredsite.com) (64.224.219.82) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2005 08:56:19 -0000 Received: from imta06a2.registeredsite.com (imta06a2.registeredsite.com [64.225.255.15]) by mail8.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.11/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j6G8tlZe026205 for ; Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:55:47 GMT Received: from [10.0.8.1] ([212.199.60.114]) by imta06a2.registeredsite.com with ESMTP id <20050716085547.ZYBH1954.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@[10.0.8.1]> for ; Sat, 16 Jul 2005 04:55:47 -0400 Message-ID: <42D8D9D2.8020802@ootips.org> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <002801c589e2$9b4ac530$34749ed9@robins6dd110df> In-Reply-To: <002801c589e2$9b4ac530$34749ed9@robins6dd110df> X-Originating-IP: 64.224.219.82 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Yonat Sharon X-Yahoo-Profile: yonat_sharon Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 11:56:34 +0200 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Gifts and poetry Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 'Bright the hawk's path....' wanted to finish poetically with that > line of poetry which I think is from one of the Earthsea books > (perhaps the lay of Erreth Akbe????) but a quick flick through > failed to find it - the first bit reverberated in my mind but then > my memory petered out - bet one of you can finish it for me! Only in silence the word, only in dark the light, only in dying life: bright the hawk's flight on the empty sky. -The Creation of Ea (from "A Wizard of Earthsea") -- Have fun, "You teach best what you most need to learn." Yonat. -- Richard Bach Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 17 12:32:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 16 Jul 2005 09:04:15 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=EjiwGjzHk1l8WKomR+MkOjutm2fhHZ4jM1BNP3VwyIC5c9xE3LDGpPMztZxI4hc/1EZ1jKW2mYl/wJs/oMHhWQPEzyx6qV9TK24121Ygp1rYK5V24lYmxayNynjbdnkQ; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2005 16:04:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2005 16:04:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70265 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2005 16:04:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2005 16:04:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2005 16:04:15 -0000 Received: from du-040-0189.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.189] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1Dtp9C-000KcZ-DY for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 16 Jul 2005 17:04:14 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c58a20$03d5d8a0$bd749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: <002801c589e2$9b4ac530$34749ed9@robins6dd110df> <42D8D9D2.8020802@ootips.org> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.143 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 17:04:11 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Gifts and poetry Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes! that's the one. 'The empty sky' how could I have forgotten? And there's an echo of The Left Hand of Darkness: 'Light is the left hand of darkness and darkness the right hand of light Two are one, life and death, lying together like lovers in kemmer, like hands joined together, like the end and the way' and of course that book is full of reference to the importance of shadow Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yonat Sharon" To: Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Gifts and poetry >> 'Bright the hawk's path....' wanted to finish poetically with that > > line of poetry which I think is from one of the Earthsea books > > (perhaps the lay of Erreth Akbe????) but a quick flick through > > failed to find it - the first bit reverberated in my mind but then > > my memory petered out - bet one of you can finish it for me! > > Only in silence the word, > only in dark the light, > only in dying life: > bright the hawk's flight on the empty sky. > -The Creation of Ea > > (from "A Wizard of Earthsea") > > -- > Have fun, "You teach best what you most need to learn." > Yonat. -- Richard Bach > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jul 25 12:15:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.48]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:30:27 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=ZeoxUGv/LaVWY7Taaf1OMlPcw9T82xKsiEIYfauSXFzqvsVE0WN/8HVFtkTTKl5bR62aVyETSIrlM3LhjkroVXBR7tdc0DSNWuY8ZlqaBM3jUE0H3hhu95JJOrQjjsFO; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 2005 03:30:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 2005 03:30:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: rubykaye@nyc.rr.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51168 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2005 03:30:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jul 2005 03:30:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com) (24.29.109.5) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2005 03:30:27 -0000 Received: from Kathleen.nyc.rr.com (cpe-66-108-189-18.nyc.res.rr.com [66.108.189.18]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j6P3UO1h012137 for ; Sun, 24 Jul 2005 23:30:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050724231634.01fcd360@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Originating-IP: 24.29.109.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Kathleen M." X-Yahoo-Profile: rubykaye Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 23:30:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] authors similar to Le Guin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I share your hunger for writing as complex as LeGuin's. I have started reading Octavia E. Butler, who is a very different type of writer than UKL, but who also features mature people and women, in particular, as her protagonists. Her vision of the universe is much darker than UKL's (I've heard her called "dystopian") yet all of her work is held together with a strong and stubborn thread of deep respect for life and a limitless appreciation for the goodness that is in even the worst of us. I don't want to get too far off-topic on this list, but she is one of the few that I've found who comes close to matching UKL's depth and complexity - at least in the fantasy/sci-fi genre. Interestingly enough, I started reading her because she was recommended by - of all people - Orson Scott Card! (He said in one of his anthologies that if he had to say who is the best writer in sci-fi today, he would choose Ms. Butler.) - Kathleen At 12:30 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote: >Hello all. I'm new to this forum, but not new to Le Guin's writing. >I'm in the process of collecting all of her fiction works, largely >from used bookstores. Lately I've been reading Tehanu over and over. > I think it is one of the first good fiction stories I've found about >a middle-aged woman. Someone I can identify with. I savor the >mundane details, the way they add depth and meaning to the story. >It's refresing to read about people who have to cook and clean, no >matter what adventures come their way. Is there anyone else who >writes this way? >Orson Scott Card said in the intro to Ender's Game that most adventure >stories are written about adolescents--folks with independence and no >responsibilities. I'm getting older, I guess, and that sort of thing >is getting boring to me. Responsibility may tie a person down a bit, >but it adds a depth to life that I just didn't have without the roots. > I'd like to read more about people who do grow up, put down roots, >sweep floors, take care of others, and live deep. I don't think this >precludes adventures, it just makes them more complicated. So...Le >Guin is writing these stories, but I read much faster than she >writes...is anyone else writing like this? >--Charlene > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 27 12:40:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.38]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:29:16 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=LNWqlijv23S/C1aLQDUZhzH/1bNPeo5ZeOywK31cWLm9ykaGbaQpPW4wvhhMAcpMKpC3zJ6pS3kXJvxUbKC6OHfPA2wULnH1iz12hN2fpdNavEKmo/Lrea93JPiUbja8; Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jul 2005 06:29:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.93] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jul 2005 06:29:19 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: residentspy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24978 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2005 06:29:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jul 2005 06:29:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web80910.mail.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.95.76) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jul 2005 06:29:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 84094 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Jul 2005 06:28:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20050726062839.84092.qmail@web80910.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Received: from [210.211.128.154] by web80910.mail.scd.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:28:39 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000d01c58a20$03d5d8a0$bd749ed9@robins6dd110df> X-Originating-IP: 66.218.95.76 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: rhea daniel X-Yahoo-Profile: residentspy Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:28:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [the-ekumen] trying to remember the name of a book Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Hello Ekumen, Iâm on a retro drive and I really, really need to remember the name of a book I read a long, long time ago. Not by Ms. LeGuin, sorry about going off-topic like that. But Iâll give you a brief of the story and some of the characters. Itâs definitely childrenâs literature. This is all I can dredge up from my childhood memory: It involves the story of two families in a cold war. Each telling their children that the members of the other are vile, cannibalistic and ugly as sin. So it just so happens that a boy from one family and a girl from the other family meet, fall together and despite their initial animosity get to know each and uncover a nasty plan and the history of what truly separated their families. I remember a character, a queen or someone high up, with a waxen face and eyebrows so high up they nearly disappeared into her hair and gave her a permanent look of surprise. I know thatâs as vague as hell but if anyone can remember, do let me know, because Iâm going to go crazy trying otherwise. I remember liking it, a lot. Thanks a ton and sorry for barging in. Rhea --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 27 12:41:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.201.66]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 06:35:44 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=UqhzISwvkcFDEyEoM4jh7bQTzU806T/KZfk6KAWr8j7mbFUb/0HSxApAEIfXyB4Zskd/mP6/E6eqMD/XPLl/bYgpSR3QVEMJ+g/5rMBVNMIjbt77zll6upKqESf/gd+T; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jul 2005 13:35:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by mailer1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jul 2005 13:35:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jul 2005 13:35:44 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: iwriddell@charter.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71093 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2005 13:35:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jul 2005 13:35:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mxsf07.cluster1.charter.net) (209.225.28.207) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jul 2005 13:35:42 -0000 Received: from mxip11a.cluster1.charter.net (mxip11a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.141]) by mxsf07.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j6QDZfNp006454 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:35:41 -0400 Received: from 68-190-85-120.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com (HELO [192.168.1.103]) (68.190.85.120) by mxip11a.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2005 09:35:40 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.95,143,1120449600"; d="scan'208"; a="1348795122:sNHT843201210" In-Reply-To: <20050726062839.84092.qmail@web80910.mail.scd.yahoo.com> References: <20050726062839.84092.qmail@web80910.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <9ECFBAEB-729C-4C00-8BD9-CB8D7A0456AA@charter.net> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.733) X-Originating-IP: 209.225.28.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Ian Riddell X-Yahoo-Profile: iwr77 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 08:35:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] trying to remember the name of a book Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain It's "The Magicians of Caprona" by Diana Wynne Jones, I think. One of her "Chrestomanci" novels. widdy On Jul 26, 2005, at 1:28 AM, rhea daniel wrote: > > Hello Ekumen, > > > > IÕm on a retro drive and I really, really need to remember the name > of a book I read a long, long time ago. Not by Ms. LeGuin, sorry > about going off-topic like that. But IÕll give you a brief of the > story and some of the characters. ItÕs definitely childrenÕs > literature. This is all I can dredge up from my childhood memory: > > > > It involves the story of two families in a cold war. Each telling > their children that the members of the other are vile, > cannibalistic and ugly as sin. So it just so happens that a boy > from one family and a girl from the other family meet, fall > together and despite their initial animosity get to know each and > uncover a nasty plan and the history of what truly separated their > families. I remember a character, a queen or someone high up, with > a waxen face and eyebrows so high up they nearly disappeared into > her hair and gave her a permanent look of surprise. > > > > I know thatÕs as vague as hell but if anyone can remember, do let > me know, because IÕm going to go crazy trying otherwise. > > > > I remember liking it, a lot. > > > > Thanks a ton and sorry for barging in. > > Rhea > > > > > --------------------------------- > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Ursula k. le guin Ursula le guin Literary agent fiction > Ursula k le guin Le guin > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > ----- A boy will never be made to understand, of an evening when he is in the midst of a captivating story--a boy will never be made to understand by a demonstration based upon his case alone, that he must interrupt his reading and go to bed. -Franz Kafka ----- Ian Riddell iwriddell@charter.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 27 12:45:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:47:31 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=qgl+V8Cc5tSGsZdemAAiqpD2MasfA2cvCCEEjP0Gt1dzxLvklQ96yn5ZcainJLlVG+MfZWagqJKE++pCP2eN7UN6OZFySpRjgRaXfOOHzd591YiKSS7ydiiPKs/DW3JR; Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2005 04:47:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.201] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2005 04:47:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 46614 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2005 04:47:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2005 04:47:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2005 04:47:31 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2005 04:46:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2005 04:46:31 -0000 X-Sender: xikemeni@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65151 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2005 04:18:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2005 04:18:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.206.85) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2005 04:18:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 73634 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jul 2005 04:18:14 -0000 Message-ID: <20050727041814.73632.qmail@web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [61.187.64.77] by web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:18:14 CST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050726062839.84092.qmail@web80910.mail.scd.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 68.142.206.85 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: clara Ye X-Yahoo-Profile: xikemeni X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 27 Jul 2005 04:46:28 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:18:14 +0800 (CST) Subject: [the-ekumen] about Tao Te Ching Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi ekumen, I'm a new comer from China and just beginning to read UKL, for her works are rare,if not unavailable in my country.I have read some of her short stories and now working on The Dispossessed. I heard of her translation of Tao Te Ching but fail to get a version. Taoism is an ancient Chinese philosophy whose unique value was rediscovered in this postindustrial era. Not many Chinese can really understand it for it was written in Old Chinese. I want very much to read the English version to make a comparative study. Where can I get it? Thanks. xikemeni __________________________________________________ ¸Ï¿ì×¢²áÑÅ»¢³¬´óÈÝÁ¿Ãâ·ÑÓÊÏä? http://cn.mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 27 12:46:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.52]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:12:58 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=XI0oB4X7ctcgoUP7LwhEp3TOaVY56njOOYRdcM5bslWObaFS9I2lQEf6UG1mskIkY6JLuwIyVzLWyq5tCP/K38MBOYisEq2NOIQt746e5AbWkE3im40Qs5U75Rxc2GXb; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2005 09:12:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2005 09:12:55 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: mayaward@yahoo.com.au X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6641 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2005 09:12:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2005 09:12:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web33511.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.206.160) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2005 09:12:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 5811 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jul 2005 09:12:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20050727091247.5809.qmail@web33511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.51.162.116] by web33511.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:12:46 EST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050724231634.01fcd360@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> X-Originating-IP: 68.142.206.160 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: maya ward X-Yahoo-Profile: mayaward Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:12:46 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] authors similar to Le Guin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the genre, I have really enjoyed Philip Pullman's Dark Materials trilogy - dark and strange and bitter and sweet. Outside the genre, completely different but so absolutely resonant with many of her works such as The Telling and Always Coming Home, are an absolutely extraordinary collection of books by Martin Prechtel - Secrets of the Talking Jaguar, Long Life Honey in the Heart and The Toe Bone and the Tooth. They are about Guatemalan village life from the perspective of a shaman and elder. They are bizarre but deeply, powerfully about truth - the complex magical truth of the world. I am in awe of this writer's courage...I hope it finds you like it found me... The Tzutujil were not trying to build a nonsuffering world. The world they were part of was not run by humans, and it had only live things residing in it. There were no dead things. Instead of eradicating all the misery of the world, the Tzutujil were trying to suffer together creatively in a beautiful way to keep their world of delicately balanced live things more vital by feeding it the grief of their human failures and stupidity. These failures were made beautiful by the ornate and graceful way the people dedicated their suffering to the earth and to that which made life live, in a proven ritual attitude of great antiquity. ciao maya "Kathleen M." wrote: I share your hunger for writing as complex as LeGuin's. I have started reading Octavia E. Butler, who is a very different type of writer than UKL, but who also features mature people and women, in particular, as her protagonists. Her vision of the universe is much darker than UKL's (I've heard her called "dystopian") yet all of her work is held together with a strong and stubborn thread of deep respect for life and a limitless appreciation for the goodness that is in even the worst of us. I don't want to get too far off-topic on this list, but she is one of the few that I've found who comes close to matching UKL's depth and complexity - at least in the fantasy/sci-fi genre. Interestingly enough, I started reading her because she was recommended by - of all people - Orson Scott Card! (He said in one of his anthologies that if he had to say who is the best writer in sci-fi today, he would choose Ms. Butler.) - Kathleen At 12:30 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote: >Hello all. I'm new to this forum, but not new to Le Guin's writing. >I'm in the process of collecting all of her fiction works, largely >from used bookstores. Lately I've been reading Tehanu over and over. > I think it is one of the first good fiction stories I've found about >a middle-aged woman. Someone I can identify with. I savor the >mundane details, the way they add depth and meaning to the story. >It's refresing to read about people who have to cook and clean, no >matter what adventures come their way. Is there anyone else who >writes this way? >Orson Scott Card said in the intro to Ender's Game that most adventure >stories are written about adolescents--folks with independence and no >responsibilities. I'm getting older, I guess, and that sort of thing >is getting boring to me. Responsibility may tie a person down a bit, >but it adds a depth to life that I just didn't have without the roots. > I'd like to read more about people who do grow up, put down roots, >sweep floors, take care of others, and live deep. I don't think this >precludes adventures, it just makes them more complicated. So...Le >Guin is writing these stories, but I read much faster than she >writes...is anyone else writing like this? >--Charlene > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 27 12:47:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.24]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:29:40 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=XaEPhhmIaQKMonsP0kRW6Dz22de9A1XCrIp6nFMoFpeR8u4ChO2EpmnWuY/JafZPAufJShgS5AS+r4T1CXpPUeQNi6LZCYgrhJVFRlVGjVS9PTPo2rUTfifU6EtmIX4J; Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2005 16:29:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.36] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2005 16:29:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 67216 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2005 16:29:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2005 16:29:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2005 16:29:39 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2005 16:29:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2005 16:29:39 -0000 X-Sender: bpegg@up.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62318 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2005 13:16:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2005 13:16:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailoff.mtu.edu) (141.219.70.111) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2005 13:16:19 -0000 Received: from node5.edge.dcsint.mtu.edu (node5.mtu.edu [141.219.69.5]) by mailoff.mtu.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id j6RDGDX25128 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:16:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node2.edge.dcsint.mtu.edu (node2.mtu.edu [141.219.69.2]) by node5.edge.dcsint.mtu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j6RDGDwH025587 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:16:13 -0400 Received: from mail.mtu.edu (campus4.mtu.edu [141.219.70.7]) by node2.edge.dcsint.mtu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j6RDGCHF011341 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:16:12 -0400 (envelope-from bpegg@up.net) Received: from node6.edge.dcsint.mtu.edu (node6.mtu.edu [141.219.69.6]) by mail.mtu.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j6RDGCt01689 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [141.219.101.63] (ppp032.tc.mtu.edu [141.219.101.63]) by node6.edge.dcsint.mtu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.3/auth_ssl.mc v1.0) with ESMTP id j6RDG75f015856 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:16:10 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050727041814.73632.qmail@web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050727041814.73632.qmail@web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.7.27.10 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__CT 0, __CTYPE_HAS_BOUNDARY 0, __CTYPE_MULTIPART 0, __CTYPE_MULTIPART_ALT 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HIGHBITS 0, __MIME_HTML 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __RATWARE_SIGNATURE_3_N1 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __STOCK_CRUFT 0, __TAG_EXISTS_HTML 0' X-Originating-IP: 141.219.70.111 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Barry Pegg X-Yahoo-Profile: ship8eg X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 27 Jul 2005 16:29:37 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:09:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] about Tao Te Ching Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain I don't know UKL's version but was introduced to the one by Ralph Allen Dale. It's wonderful. Barry Pegg >Hi ekumen, > I'm a new comer from China and just beginning to >read UKL, for her works are rare,if not unavailable in >my country.I have read some of her short stories and >now working on The Dispossessed. I heard of her >translation of Tao Te Ching but fail to get a version. >Taoism is an ancient Chinese philosophy whose unique >value was rediscovered in this postindustrial era. Not >many Chinese can really understand it for it was >written in Old Chinese. I want very much to read the >English version to make a comparative study. Where can >I get it? > Thanks. > xikemeni > > >__________________________________________________ >"ã‰õ’™e‰ëŒ'’´‘å—e— –Æ·-" ” ? >http://cn.mail.yahoo.com > > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group >"the-ekumen" >on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms >of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 27 12:47:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n6.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.201.59]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:30:05 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? 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See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2005 16:30:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2005 16:30:04 -0000 X-Sender: princess_alicat@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93689 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2005 13:27:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2005 13:27:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.206.163) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2005 13:27:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 46949 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jul 2005 13:27:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20050727132705.46947.qmail@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.167.190.196] by web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:27:04 BST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050727041814.73632.qmail@web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 68.142.206.163 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: AliCat X-Yahoo-Profile: princess_alicat X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 27 Jul 2005 16:30:04 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:27:04 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] about Tao Te Ching Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amazon.com has it! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1570623953/qid=1122470769/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-2305543-1289722?v=glance&s=books Alison Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 28 08:04:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.28]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:45:18 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? 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(24.19.146.177) by ns1.server304.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2005 21:45:01 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050727091247.5809.qmail@web33511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050727091247.5809.qmail@web33511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <1122501071.8813.278.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.1.1 X-Originating-IP: 216.35.196.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Charlene Osman X-Yahoo-Profile: osmanchar Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:51:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] authors similar to Le Guin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the ideas. I've written down those authors and am headed to the used bookstore! It's interesting to me that the books that remind me most of UKL's work are often not sci-fi. Starhawk's book, The Fifth Sacred Thing, resonates with me--like Always Coming Home, it portrays a world I think I'd rather live in. People in both those books are really connected to their land--their food comes from it; their spirituality comes from it. Their lives and deaths return to it. Some of Le Guin's work reminds me of Tolstoy, though I really can't say why; Malafrena, in particular, reminded me of Anna Karinina somehow. Was it the descriptions, the eastern European setting, the psychology, or the way everything didn't work out? I'm not sure. I'm especially intrigued by the Martin Prechtel books Maya has recommended, as I am cultivating a mystical mindset in myself through reading good fiction. Thank you! --Charlene On Wed, 2005-07-27 at 19:12 +1000, maya ward wrote: > In the genre, I have really enjoyed Philip Pullman's Dark Materials > trilogy - dark and strange and bitter and sweet. > Outside the genre, completely different but so absolutely resonant > with many of her works such as The Telling and Always Coming Home, are > an absolutely extraordinary collection of books by Martin Prechtel - > Secrets of the Talking Jaguar, Long Life Honey in the Heart and The > Toe Bone and the Tooth. They are about Guatemalan village life from > the perspective of a shaman and elder. They are bizarre but deeply, > powerfully about truth - the complex magical truth of the world. I am > in awe of this writer's courage...I hope it finds you like it found > me... > > The Tzutujil were not trying to build a nonsuffering world. The world > they were part of was not run by humans, and it had only live things > residing in it. There were no dead things. Instead of eradicating all > the misery of the world, the Tzutujil were trying to suffer together > creatively in a beautiful way to keep their world of delicately > balanced live things more vital by feeding it the grief of their human > failures and stupidity. These failures were made beautiful by the > ornate and graceful way the people dedicated their suffering to the > earth and to that which made life live, in a proven ritual attitude of > great antiquity. > > ciao maya > > > > > "Kathleen M." wrote: > I share your hunger for writing as complex as LeGuin's. I have > started > reading Octavia E. Butler, who is a very different type of writer than > UKL, > but who also features mature people and women, in particular, as her > protagonists. Her vision of the universe is much darker than UKL's > (I've > heard her called "dystopian") yet all of her work is held together > with a > strong and stubborn thread of deep respect for life and a limitless > appreciation for the goodness that is in even the worst of us. I > don't > want to get too far off-topic on this list, but she is one of the few > that > I've found who comes close to matching UKL's depth and complexity - > at > least in the fantasy/sci-fi genre. Interestingly enough, I started > reading > her because she was recommended by - of all people - Orson Scott Card! > (He > said in one of his anthologies that if he had to say who is the best > writer > in sci-fi today, he would choose Ms. Butler.) > - Kathleen > > At 12:30 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote: > >Hello all. I'm new to this forum, but not new to Le Guin's writing. > >I'm in the process of collecting all of her fiction works, largely > >from used bookstores. Lately I've been reading Tehanu over and over. > > I think it is one of the first good fiction stories I've found > about > >a middle-aged woman. Someone I can identify with. I savor the > >mundane details, the way they add depth and meaning to the story. > >It's refresing to read about people who have to cook and clean, no > >matter what adventures come their way. Is there anyone else who > >writes this way? > >Orson Scott Card said in the intro to Ender's Game that most > adventure > >stories are written about adolescents--folks with independence and no > >responsibilities. I'm getting older, I guess, and that sort of thing > >is getting boring to me. Responsibility may tie a person down a bit, > >but it adds a depth to life that I just didn't have without the > roots. > > I'd like to read more about people who do grow up, put down roots, > >sweep floors, take care of others, and live deep. I don't think this > >precludes adventures, it just makes them more complicated. So...Le > >Guin is writing these stories, but I read much faster than she > >writes...is anyone else writing like this? > >--Charlene > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 1. Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. > > 2. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > 3. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 28 08:06:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n9.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.201.62]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 03:48:35 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=beR4bHr8NljAnZQkL0a/eOqQqDjwOdoMIzBqbtJA0Fmy0H4Ba/LH5I81Rk/VgHLjT0GmdrS8tWXVNt3Tue9yth3ZN131JqPHD+FRPajCgGuuAJcKyMhAKISRyHbhpxaf; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n9.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 10:48:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 10:48:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 10:48:33 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51091 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2005 10:48:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2005 10:48:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.31) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2005 10:48:30 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([81.84.16.51] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:48:24 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050727132705.46947.qmail@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2005 10:48:24.0801 (UTC) FILETIME=[E1200510:01C59361] X-Originating-IP: 212.113.174.31 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: rowcliffe Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:48:18 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] about Tao Te Ching Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While I have been a member of the group, we haven't discussed Ursula's translation of the Tao Te Ching. The purests claim it is not the real deal but I think Ursula achieved her goal: "I wanted to make a completely personal version, in the poetic vocabulary of the time, for my own contemporaries: to bring Tao Te Ching back alive." As a friend of mine said, it is 'nectar'. I enjoy(ed) the audio version, too, although it doesn't come with Ursula's interesting notes. Ian P.S. Ursula also mentions the fact that her father chose some lines to be read at his funeral and that she is likely to do the same. It is hard to imagine just which lines she will choose. Does anyone know the answer or would like to hazard a guess? Something to do with water, perhaps? on 05/7/27 14:27, AliCat at princess_alicat@yahoo.com wrote: > Amazon.com has it! > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1570623953/qid=1122470769/sr=1-1 > /ref=sr_1_1/102-2305543-1289722?v=glance&s=books > > Alison > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 28 18:29:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.39]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:40:21 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=E98ptaGWuyS8PXl2VuYfD2+Re7O3QQEvys/pY7UT06PBaXR2h4Iv6g18EDzLPL6IK3UJ8NQJl1ugDIhf0MonwwsuhJPTiQme9cfua06DczV1PNRN3Kxg8qDzXaIAPd/m; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 13:40:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.201] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 13:40:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: shevek@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88482 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2005 13:40:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2005 13:40:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.20) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2005 13:40:21 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 13:39:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 13:39:25 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.20 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 202.63.56.57 From: "takver_oz" X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:39:25 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] authors similar to Le Guin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Similar in many respects - the politics, anthropology, characterisation - but also different in so many ways are the works of B. Traven http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._Traven I greatly enjoyed reading the Jungle novels (except for The Troza which has only recently been translated and published in english) with their intricate depiction of peasant life in Mexico at the start of the twentieth century. Even 'the Death Ship' and 'The Treasure of the Sierra Madre' are powerfully told stories which turn a mirror on the worst and the best facets of our society. Highly recomended. In terms of science fiction I enjoy particularly Sheri S. Tepper and Pamela Sargent who are innovative and creative with strong characterisation, and remind me very much of Le Guin. Back to savouring my first reading of Ursula Le Guin's 'Gifts' Takver Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 28 18:31:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.46]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:20:32 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Vi+MLUf7Ubli1cn1PMY8bY/HaY9Hye6ufguA1vEcuixjjRJDIILMJLv17xkZ/8la2o5Ndw/ueEXu/je2E/du5ZXJ/tZKy6E54OzLxVNRh+UZjmdH1KDVX/bXa1vLywqY; Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 16:20:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.61] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 16:20:33 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: bschrack1@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31149 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2005 16:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2005 16:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (204.127.202.56) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2005 16:20:29 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pcp07710909pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net[69.138.225.95]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <20050728162001012009s1vde>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:20:02 +0000 Message-ID: <42E9052B.10502@comcast.net> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 204.127.202.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Bonnie Schrack X-Yahoo-Profile: bonnieschrack Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 12:17:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] about Tao Te Ching (long) Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear friends, You know, since I love Ursula's work in general, I was disappointed to find that I do not find her translation of the Tao te Ching a satisfying work. This probably has to do with the fact that I've been reading this great book since I was young, and to me it is a sacred text. Her approach, if I remember at all rightly, was to work from other translations, rather than to learn Chinese. This may be a viable way to translate works from other modern Western writers, but I have misgivings about using it in this case. Ancient Chinese culture was very different from ours, and despite her profound intuitive gifts, I would prefer someone more immersed in the language and world it comes from, as a translator. Given that she is not a scholar of Chinese language, culture, and antiquities, what most took me aback is that she saw fit to omit a considerable number of passages based upon her feeling that they didn't belong, according her perception of what the original text might have been. She may exercise her creative judgement as she sees fit, but I found this jarring and even lacking in modesty. I would never think of myself as any kind of fundamentalist, but I found the integrity of the text violated. I know these are terrible times we live in, but the idea that we would need "to bring the Tao Te Ching back alive" would never, ever, have occurred to me. In what way has it not been alive? I have never found it anything but brimming with living wisdom. If it were only available in stiff, out of date or inaccurate translations, then new ones would be needed, but there are many very good ones. I wish I could bask in unadulterated reverence for Ursula's wisdom and good judgement in all things, but this is one exception to my enthusiastic love for her creations in general, even those that haven't always been appreciated by others. My favorite translation of the Tao te Ching is by Gia-fu Feng and Jane English. It was published with beautiful black and white photographs in one edition, and in another, it has a long introduction by Jacob Needleman. I recommend the illustrated one. I don't know if it's in print these days. Call me a purist if you like, but I think she changed the Tao te Ching to produce her own new book, which is something different. I've seen Stephen Mitchell do this in /The Gospel According to Jesus/ (what nerve he had to use that title! It should have been, "According to Stephen Mitchell"), and it can be a useful thought-provoking exercise, but the author should make it clear that they are making a crucial change in the original work by selecting only the parts they like, and translating them according to their own philosophical agenda. Looking at the reviews of her translation on Amazon, one of the reviewers who like it very much, mentions that she acknowledges the Feng / English edition as "the most satisfactory in an literary sense." That sounds as though maybe it's good for the literati, but not the rest of us. I think its embrace over the years by so many people is testimony that it goes well beyond that. OK, the Gia-fu Feng edition is here on Amazon too. It is out of print, but lots of copies are available. Many others seem to agree with me about it: > "No one has done better in conveying Lao Tsu's simple and laconic > style of writing, so as to produce an English version almost as > suggestive of the many meanings intended." -- Alan Watts > What I do find remarkable is the durability of this particular > edition. My copy is ancient, dating back to my college days. At > frequent intervals it seems to come to hand and I will peruse it again > and enjoy the clarity of this translation by Gia-Fu Feng and Jane > English. They have carefully chosen a simple, accessible style which I > feel completely captures the nature of the Tao. > > "What is a good man? A teacher of a bad man. > > What is a bad man? A good man's charge." > > Jane English's haunting black-and-white photos . . . undulate in and > out on every page. . . The photographs--of a glistening spider web, > cloud-enveloped mountain tops, reflections on water, leaves in the > sunlight--are as serenely lyrical as the ancient text, itself. > "The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao." > > So begins this version of the Tao Te Ching. This book provides an > experience of the Tao like few others. First, there is the blank page. > Lots of white space. The absence, the void. > > "The Tao is an empty vessel; it is used, but never filled." > > "Profit comes from what is there, / Usefulness from what is not there." > > Emptiness is the vessel which contains the words and images of this > experience. Each chapter is written in both English and Chinese. I > don't even pretend read Chinese, but the characters evoke a sense of > something beyond ... > > "The form of the formless / the image of the imageless / it is called > indefinable and beyond imagination." > > The English translation reads smoothly. This is not the awkward prose > frequently stumbled over when a scholar attempts to reproduce the > ambiguities of the original in a foreign tongue. These words play > smoothly together. The text does > > "not tinkle like jade / or clatter like stone chimes." > > The final element in this alchemy is the photographs: > > "Less and less is done / until non-action is achieved. / When nothing > is done, nothing is left undone." > > Absent in this volume are the reams of footnotes which clutter most > Taos I've read. Absent, too, are chapters on historical background and > the relationship to Confucianism. If you seek these things, seek > elsewhere. > > For me, this book has opened a way to the Tao. > Best wishes, Bonnie Schrack > While I have been a member of the group, we haven't discussed Ursula's > translation of the Tao Te Ching. The purests claim it is not the real deal > but I think Ursula achieved her goal: > > "I wanted to make a completely personal version, in the poetic > vocabulary of > the time, for my own contemporaries: to bring Tao Te Ching back alive." > > As a friend of mine said, it is 'nectar'. I enjoy(ed) the audio version, > too, although it doesn't come with Ursula's interesting notes. > > Ian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 28 18:33:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:21:55 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=I2oxIeklZXqaeElP2ZMAr9g4HAiFcsX9H/9iHQR9Oz2jXgfCUREmPIDqUJaVXfOw9pyBbX6SsoJ49WBN3//j5IbJOwpFRXyefZGDVUMMsvOo2F8DGlQYwJpi2Dsbh5/4; Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 22:21:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 22:21:57 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14493 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2005 22:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2005 22:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.31) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2005 22:21:55 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([81.84.16.51] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 28 Jul 2005 23:21:53 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42E9052B.10502@comcast.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2005 22:21:54.0060 (UTC) FILETIME=[C22D14C0:01C593C2] X-Originating-IP: 212.113.174.31 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: rowcliffe Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 23:21:49 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] about Tao Te Ching +(long) Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An interesting and informative comment, Bonnie - I would like to read the Feng/English version, too. However, to be fair to Ursula, she doesn't refer to it as a translation but a 'new English version'. Furthermore, in the introduction she specifically states her intentions and makes it clear that she has cast the ideas in a different light for a different audience: "Scholarly translations of the Tao Te Ching as a manual for rulers use a vocabulary that emphasizes the uniqueness of the Taoist 'sage,' his masculinity, his authority. This language is perpetuated, and degraded, in most popular versions. I wanted a Book of the Way accessible to a present-day, unwise, unpowerful, and perhaps unmale reader, not seeking esoteric secrets, but listening for a voice that speaks to the soul." In short, Ursula's 'completely personal version' is interesting for exactly the reasons she states. "This is a rendition, not a translation." Her source was the Paul Carus 1898 translation and transliteration of each Chinese character. I think it was TS Eliot who wrote that choice is a requirement for growth, so as Ursula has given us more to work with so much the better, methinks. Ian on 05/7/28 17:17, Bonnie Schrack at bschrack1@comcast.net wrote: > Dear friends, > > You know, since I love Ursula's work in general, I was disappointed to > find that I do not find her translation of the Tao te Ching a satisfying > work. This probably has to do with the fact that I've been reading this > great book since I was young, and to me it is a sacred text. > > Her approach, if I remember at all rightly, was to work from other > translations, rather than to learn Chinese. This may be a viable way to > translate works from other modern Western writers, but I have misgivings > about using it in this case. Ancient Chinese culture was very different > from ours, and despite her profound intuitive gifts, I would prefer > someone more immersed in the language and world it comes from, as a > translator. > > Given that she is not a scholar of Chinese language, culture, and > antiquities, what most took me aback is that she saw fit to omit a > considerable number of passages based upon her feeling that they didn't > belong, according her perception of what the original text might have > been. She may exercise her creative judgement as she sees fit, but I > found this jarring and even lacking in modesty. I would never think of > myself as any kind of fundamentalist, but I found the integrity of the > text violated. > > I know these are terrible times we live in, but the idea that we would > need "to bring the Tao Te Ching back alive" would never, ever, have > occurred to me. In what way has it not been alive? I have never found > it anything but brimming with living wisdom. If it were only available > in stiff, out of date or inaccurate translations, then new ones would be > needed, but there are many very good ones. > > I wish I could bask in unadulterated reverence for Ursula's wisdom and > good judgement in all things, but this is one exception to my > enthusiastic love for her creations in general, even those that haven't > always been appreciated by others. > > My favorite translation of the Tao te Ching is by Gia-fu Feng and Jane > English. It was published with beautiful black and white photographs in > one edition, and in another, it has a long introduction by Jacob > Needleman. I recommend the illustrated one. I don't know if it's in > print these days. > > Call me a purist if you like, but I think she changed the Tao te Ching > to produce her own new book, which is something different. I've seen > Stephen Mitchell do this in /The Gospel According to Jesus/ (what nerve > he had to use that title! It should have been, "According to Stephen > Mitchell"), and it can be a useful thought-provoking exercise, but the > author should make it clear that they are making a crucial change in the > original work by selecting only the parts they like, and translating > them according to their own philosophical agenda. > > Looking at the reviews of her translation on Amazon, one of the > reviewers who like it very much, mentions that she acknowledges the Feng > / English edition as "the most satisfactory in an literary sense." That > sounds as though maybe it's good for the literati, but not the rest of > us. I think its embrace over the years by so many people is testimony > that it goes well beyond that. > > OK, the Gia-fu Feng edition is here on Amazon too. It is out of print, > but lots of copies are available. Many others seem to agree with me > about it: > >> "No one has done better in conveying Lao Tsu's simple and laconic >> style of writing, so as to produce an English version almost as >> suggestive of the many meanings intended." -- Alan Watts > >> What I do find remarkable is the durability of this particular >> edition. My copy is ancient, dating back to my college days. At >> frequent intervals it seems to come to hand and I will peruse it again >> and enjoy the clarity of this translation by Gia-Fu Feng and Jane >> English. They have carefully chosen a simple, accessible style which I >> feel completely captures the nature of the Tao. >> >> "What is a good man? A teacher of a bad man. >> >> What is a bad man? A good man's charge." >> >> Jane English's haunting black-and-white photos . . . undulate in and >> out on every page. . . The photographs--of a glistening spider web, >> cloud-enveloped mountain tops, reflections on water, leaves in the >> sunlight--are as serenely lyrical as the ancient text, itself. > >> "The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao." >> >> So begins this version of the Tao Te Ching. This book provides an >> experience of the Tao like few others. First, there is the blank page. >> Lots of white space. The absence, the void. >> >> "The Tao is an empty vessel; it is used, but never filled." >> >> "Profit comes from what is there, / Usefulness from what is not there." >> >> Emptiness is the vessel which contains the words and images of this >> experience. Each chapter is written in both English and Chinese. I >> don't even pretend read Chinese, but the characters evoke a sense of >> something beyond ... >> >> "The form of the formless / the image of the imageless / it is called >> indefinable and beyond imagination." >> >> The English translation reads smoothly. This is not the awkward prose >> frequently stumbled over when a scholar attempts to reproduce the >> ambiguities of the original in a foreign tongue. These words play >> smoothly together. The text does >> >> "not tinkle like jade / or clatter like stone chimes." >> >> The final element in this alchemy is the photographs: >> >> "Less and less is done / until non-action is achieved. / When nothing >> is done, nothing is left undone." >> >> Absent in this volume are the reams of footnotes which clutter most >> Taos I've read. Absent, too, are chapters on historical background and >> the relationship to Confucianism. If you seek these things, seek >> elsewhere. >> >> For me, this book has opened a way to the Tao. >> > Best wishes, > > Bonnie Schrack > > >> While I have been a member of the group, we haven't discussed Ursula's >> translation of the Tao Te Ching. The purests claim it is not the real deal >> but I think Ursula achieved her goal: >> >> "I wanted to make a completely personal version, in the poetic >> vocabulary of >> the time, for my own contemporaries: to bring Tao Te Ching back alive." >> >> As a friend of mine said, it is 'nectar'. I enjoy(ed) the audio version, >> too, although it doesn't come with Ursula's interesting notes. >> >> Ian > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jul 29 12:23:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n24.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.53]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:46:00 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=JRlK2of1ywmXbM6nFzHQPt5AcQ06dAo4wTOEEX+qIHFQiigczJd64HgfGJIwVwG5sdZ4eNOTBH7kPfemC0UH1uXLFt9hEr975TEom7WcJupkq2skDSRH/xIXuKOzMT29; Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n24.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2005 02:46:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.36] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2005 02:46:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: residentspy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26332 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2005 02:46:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jul 2005 02:46:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web80903.mail.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.95.66) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2005 02:46:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 66971 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jul 2005 02:46:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20050729024602.66969.qmail@web80903.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Received: from [220.224.23.94] by web80903.mail.scd.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:46:02 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9ECFBAEB-729C-4C00-8BD9-CB8D7A0456AA@charter.net> X-Originating-IP: 66.218.95.66 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: rhea daniel X-Yahoo-Profile: residentspy Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] trying to remember the name of a book Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Thankyou Cheryl. Ian i think you're bang on. Rhea. Ian Riddell wrote: It's "The Magicians of Caprona" by Diana Wynne Jones, I think. One of her "Chrestomanci" novels. widdy On Jul 26, 2005, at 1:28 AM, rhea daniel wrote: > > Hello Ekumen, > > > > Iâm on a retro drive and I really, really need to remember the name > of a book I read a long, long time ago. Not by Ms. LeGuin, sorry > about going off-topic like that. But Iâll give you a brief of the > story and some of the characters. Itâs definitely childrenâs > literature. This is all I can dredge up from my childhood memory: > > > > It involves the story of two families in a cold war. Each telling > their children that the members of the other are vile, > cannibalistic and ugly as sin. So it just so happens that a boy > from one family and a girl from the other family meet, fall > together and despite their initial animosity get to know each and > uncover a nasty plan and the history of what truly separated their > families. I remember a character, a queen or someone high up, with > a waxen face and eyebrows so high up they nearly disappeared into > her hair and gave her a permanent look of surprise. > > > > I know thatâs as vague as hell but if anyone can remember, do let > me know, because Iâm going to go crazy trying otherwise. > > > > I remember liking it, a lot. > > > > Thanks a ton and sorry for barging in. > > Rhea > > > > > --------------------------------- > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Ursula k. le guin Ursula le guin Literary agent fiction > Ursula k le guin Le guin > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > ----- A boy will never be made to understand, of an evening when he is in the midst of a captivating story--a boy will never be made to understand by a demonstration based upon his case alone, that he must interrupt his reading and go to bed. -Franz Kafka ----- Ian Riddell iwriddell@charter.net Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 31 17:43:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:12:54 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=QkhsOyHzknPBpUGApeqwth8sXmoLXl7Qgsm5wBBuh+xrrpxMbg9wXVgh+P8/CkcwqJDGSPPu+UhIOpKIxoxUJ9w4UJp8VLVj5gZ5Fo7LdFycUVQzVyYw5/z7NYGx2I0f; Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2005 20:12:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2005 20:12:56 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: mgoldfar@mobius.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17010 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2005 20:12:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jul 2005 20:12:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.68) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2005 20:12:53 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n3.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2005 20:12:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2005 20:12:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2005 20:12:35 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1122501071.8813.278.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.201.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 204.126.130.10 From: "Michael S. Goldfarb" X-Yahoo-Profile: msg_from_ny Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:12:34 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: authors similar to Le Guin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If it's not too late to jump in on this thread, I want to make a case for Marion Zimmer Bradley. While she's not in the same league as Ursula in many ways (who is?!?), she made a specialty of some of the same cultures- misunderstanding-one-another issues that are seen in many of Ursula's books, and she has the same respect for the wondrous diversity of life. She also tends to combine elements of fantasy and SF as in Ursula's earlier books. In particular, the best books of Bradley's huge "Darkover series" take these ideas to a wonderful level of imagined detail. There are around twenty books in the series, and they can be read in any order, but I suggest starting with one of key books from the 1970s heyday of the series, like "The Spell Sword", "The Shattered Chain", or "The Bloody Sun". (The earlier 60s books are simplier, more embryonic. The later 80s books don't have the same concentration, and some were even cowritten, like the posthumously published ones.) Bradley's books aren't as profound or literary as Urusla's, but they are very entertaining, and sometimes masterful. The best ones are *very* good. (Though not SF, her Arthurian blockbuster "The Mists of Avalon" is probably her masterpiece.) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good. --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 31 17:45:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n8.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.201.61]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 30 Jul 2005 11:22:41 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=frZvtrgWGnfoxXzFaILBMlaK7niEfmqRzE9gOg5cuonKdi1ZAuWXaTbTMCFni0A8yjmSLLFlzKtUGGOqljLTBNQYGPzsyxGV/R2QDmcJB4CXoeDNs/DZjs2dDUtA/QzY; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n8.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2005 18:22:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2005 18:22:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2005 18:22:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1686 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2005 18:22:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2005 18:22:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay2.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.142) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2005 18:22:39 -0000 Received: from du-040-0018.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.18] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay2.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dyvyj-000Pbg-6r for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 30 Jul 2005 19:22:33 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c59533$a5220cb0$12749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.142 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 19:21:36 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: authors similar to Le Guin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hope it's not too late too! Everyone will have a different reaction to an author - personally I don't go for MZB although I have tried a few of them. Somehow her books do not come alive for me. Can I nominate Katherine Kerr, who has created a wonderful alternative magical universe in Deverry, which has some of the complexity we find in KL - although not her equal a good read - and a wonderful long series if you like to enter a world and follow through the history of a society and a range of individuals who are reborn in different lives... Sheri S Tepper is another one - more SF than fantasy, a great imagination and people I personally can relate to in a similar way that UKL's come alive. I also like the way she subtly follows threads through across her books although they are not sequels as such. For something completely different you could try Terry Pratchett. Depends if you relate to the English sense of humour (we've had some interesting debates in the past about UKLs sense of humour which is sometimes hard for non Americans to relate to). But in his Discworld we have another intriguing magical universe. Outside the SF/Fantast genre I would suggest Margaret Attwood (she does do some SF, but mainly more mainstream stuff) and Doris Lessing - both great use of language, complex psychology, sociological insights and strong women's angle Could go on and on... (yes I spend too much of my life reading fiction) Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael S. Goldfarb" To: Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:12 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: authors similar to Le Guin > If it's not too late to jump in on this thread, I want to make a case > for Marion Zimmer Bradley. > > While she's not in the same league as Ursula in many ways (who > is?!?), she made a specialty of some of the same cultures- > misunderstanding-one-another issues that are seen in many of Ursula's > books, and she has the same respect for the wondrous diversity of > life. She also tends to combine elements of fantasy and SF as in > Ursula's earlier books. > > In particular, the best books of Bradley's huge "Darkover series" > take these ideas to a wonderful level of imagined detail. There are > around twenty books in the series, and they can be read in any order, > but I suggest starting with one of key books from the 1970s heyday of > the series, like "The Spell Sword", "The Shattered Chain", or "The > Bloody Sun". (The earlier 60s books are simplier, more embryonic. The > later 80s books don't have the same concentration, and some were even > cowritten, like the posthumously published ones.) > > Bradley's books aren't as profound or literary as Urusla's, but they > are very entertaining, and sometimes masterful. The best ones are > *very* good. (Though not SF, her Arthurian blockbuster "The Mists of > Avalon" is probably her masterpiece.) > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good. --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 31 17:47:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.45]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:30:47 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=II/WzEOpZnSUnW57B+tEcPFXyCPVeR+JsR+BgRcRGflFe0P7/YUkWWwP9gl++VawBWnx4uxY58A7EjaDp2qA5spcFc2q6QFcNms/Xp9oUHo4hXmHVzZ1OF/uh8k2Wpn+; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2005 16:30:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.36] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2005 16:30:48 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4622 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2005 16:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2005 16:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.116) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2005 16:30:46 -0000 Received: from gkcpu.worldnet.att.net (158.charlotte-24rh16rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.243.158]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2005073116253911200a87h5e>; Sun, 31 Jul 2005 16:25:43 +0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050731113724.02af6970@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, In-Reply-To: References: <42E9052B.10502@comcast.net> X-Originating-IP: 204.127.131.116 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Melody Ivins X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:02:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] about Tao Te Ching +(long) Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, UKL worked closely and for many months with a scholar of ancient Chinese language and literature in creating her version of the Tao te Ching. He is J. P. Seaton, a noted translator of Chinese poetry into English -- his new anthology (with Sam Hamill), The Poetry of Zen, may be of interest to some of you. I am a former student and a friend of Dr Seaton, and am proud of his contribution to the book, which UKL acknowledges with humility and generosity. Bonnie, UKL apparently shares your reservations about Mitchell's methods of translation. His is on her very short list of Tao te Chings in English that she describes as "not helpful." She studied many translations and versions, as well as Seaton's literal translations and glosses of the original text, in creating her own. I find UKL's a beautiful and sound version of my favorite holy book. I also love the Jane English and Gia-fu Feng translation, Arthur Waley's, and Witter Bynner's. The Tao te Ching is inexhaustible in its meanings and its richness, and there is more than one satisfactory way to bring it into English, though there may be no one way to finally and absolutely translate it. Melody At 06:21 PM 7/28/05, rowcliffe wrote: >An interesting and informative comment, Bonnie - I would like to read the >Feng/English version, too. However, to be fair to Ursula, she doesn't refer >to it as a translation but a 'new English version'. Furthermore, in the >introduction she specifically states her intentions and makes it clear that >she has cast the ideas in a different light for a different audience: > >"Scholarly translations of the Tao Te Ching as a manual for rulers use a >vocabulary that emphasizes the uniqueness of the Taoist 'sage,' his >masculinity, his authority. This language is perpetuated, and degraded, in >most popular versions. I wanted a Book of the Way accessible to a >present-day, unwise, unpowerful, and perhaps unmale reader, not seeking >esoteric secrets, but listening for a voice that speaks to the soul." > >In short, Ursula's 'completely personal version' is interesting for exactly >the reasons she states. "This is a rendition, not a translation." Her source >was the Paul Carus 1898 translation and transliteration of each Chinese >character. > >I think it was TS Eliot who wrote that choice is a requirement for growth, >so as Ursula has given us more to work with so much the better, methinks. > >Ian > >on 05/7/28 17:17, Bonnie Schrack at bschrack1@comcast.net wrote: > > > Dear friends, > > > > You know, since I love Ursula's work in general, I was disappointed to > > find that I do not find her translation of the Tao te Ching a satisfying > > work. This probably has to do with the fact that I've been reading this > > great book since I was young, and to me it is a sacred text. > > > > Her approach, if I remember at all rightly, was to work from other > > translations, rather than to learn Chinese. This may be a viable way to > > translate works from other modern Western writers, but I have misgivings > > about using it in this case. Ancient Chinese culture was very different > > from ours, and despite her profound intuitive gifts, I would prefer > > someone more immersed in the language and world it comes from, as a > > translator. > > > > Given that she is not a scholar of Chinese language, culture, and > > antiquities, what most took me aback is that she saw fit to omit a > > considerable number of passages based upon her feeling that they didn't > > belong, according her perception of what the original text might have > > been. She may exercise her creative judgement as she sees fit, but I > > found this jarring and even lacking in modesty. I would never think of > > myself as any kind of fundamentalist, but I found the integrity of the > > text violated. > > > > I know these are terrible times we live in, but the idea that we would > > need "to bring the Tao Te Ching back alive" would never, ever, have > > occurred to me. In what way has it not been alive? I have never found > > it anything but brimming with living wisdom. If it were only available > > in stiff, out of date or inaccurate translations, then new ones would be > > needed, but there are many very good ones. > > > > I wish I could bask in unadulterated reverence for Ursula's wisdom and > > good judgement in all things, but this is one exception to my > > enthusiastic love for her creations in general, even those that haven't > > always been appreciated by others. > > > > My favorite translation of the Tao te Ching is by Gia-fu Feng and Jane > > English. It was published with beautiful black and white photographs in > > one edition, and in another, it has a long introduction by Jacob > > Needleman. I recommend the illustrated one. I don't know if it's in > > print these days. > > > > Call me a purist if you like, but I think she changed the Tao te Ching > > to produce her own new book, which is something different. I've seen > > Stephen Mitchell do this in /The Gospel According to Jesus/ (what nerve > > he had to use that title! It should have been, "According to Stephen > > Mitchell"), and it can be a useful thought-provoking exercise, but the > > author should make it clear that they are making a crucial change in the > > original work by selecting only the parts they like, and translating > > them according to their own philosophical agenda. > > > > Looking at the reviews of her translation on Amazon, one of the > > reviewers who like it very much, mentions that she acknowledges the Feng > > / English edition as "the most satisfactory in an literary sense." That > > sounds as though maybe it's good for the literati, but not the rest of > > us. I think its embrace over the years by so many people is testimony > > that it goes well beyond that. > > > > OK, the Gia-fu Feng edition is here on Amazon too. It is out of print, > > but lots of copies are available. Many others seem to agree with me > > about it: > > > >> "No one has done better in conveying Lao Tsu's simple and laconic > >> style of writing, so as to produce an English version almost as > >> suggestive of the many meanings intended." -- Alan Watts > > > >> What I do find remarkable is the durability of this particular > >> edition. My copy is ancient, dating back to my college days. At > >> frequent intervals it seems to come to hand and I will peruse it again > >> and enjoy the clarity of this translation by Gia-Fu Feng and Jane > >> English. They have carefully chosen a simple, accessible style which I > >> feel completely captures the nature of the Tao. > >> > >> "What is a good man? A teacher of a bad man. > >> > >> What is a bad man? A good man's charge." > >> > >> Jane English's haunting black-and-white photos . . . undulate in and > >> out on every page. . . The photographs--of a glistening spider web, > >> cloud-enveloped mountain tops, reflections on water, leaves in the > >> sunlight--are as serenely lyrical as the ancient text, itself. > > > >> "The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao." > >> > >> So begins this version of the Tao Te Ching. This book provides an > >> experience of the Tao like few others. First, there is the blank page. > >> Lots of white space. The absence, the void. > >> > >> "The Tao is an empty vessel; it is used, but never filled." > >> > >> "Profit comes from what is there, / Usefulness from what is not there." > >> > >> Emptiness is the vessel which contains the words and images of this > >> experience. Each chapter is written in both English and Chinese. I > >> don't even pretend read Chinese, but the characters evoke a sense of > >> something beyond ... > >> > >> "The form of the formless / the image of the imageless / it is called > >> indefinable and beyond imagination." > >> > >> The English translation reads smoothly. This is not the awkward prose > >> frequently stumbled over when a scholar attempts to reproduce the > >> ambiguities of the original in a foreign tongue. These words play > >> smoothly together. The text does > >> > >> "not tinkle like jade / or clatter like stone chimes." > >> > >> The final element in this alchemy is the photographs: > >> > >> "Less and less is done / until non-action is achieved. / When nothing > >> is done, nothing is left undone." > >> > >> Absent in this volume are the reams of footnotes which clutter most > >> Taos I've read. Absent, too, are chapters on historical background and > >> the relationship to Confucianism. If you seek these things, seek > >> elsewhere. > >> > >> For me, this book has opened a way to the Tao. > >> > > Best wishes, > > > > Bonnie Schrack > > > > > >> While I have been a member of the group, we haven't discussed Ursula's > >> translation of the Tao Te Ching. The purests claim it is not the real deal > >> but I think Ursula achieved her goal: > >> > >> "I wanted to make a completely personal version, in the poetic > >> vocabulary of > >> the time, for my own contemporaries: to bring Tao Te Ching back alive." > >> > >> As a friend of mine said, it is 'nectar'. I enjoy(ed) the audio version, > >> too, although it doesn't come with Ursula's interesting notes. > >> > >> Ian > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good. --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Aug 07 08:18:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.39]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 04:02:06 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=c2GZFF0xMisLq7C2RGGuUEB7Pg/fV1dj5EU0Lzgtk9RKD7nxLiMs7o2O2pAmchff1FINimU763rH/MkyFx3XKZr3swAp7cBS0+cPFEwjye3whNzxhXlPqFT+xYk/deeF; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Aug 2005 11:02:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Aug 2005 11:02:06 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: residentspy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54170 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2005 11:02:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2005 11:02:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web80907.mail.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.95.70) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2005 11:02:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 44499 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Aug 2005 11:01:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20050805110129.44497.qmail@web80907.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Received: from [210.211.129.68] by web80907.mail.scd.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 04:01:29 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050731113724.02af6970@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Originating-IP: 66.218.95.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: rhea daniel X-Yahoo-Profile: residentspy Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 04:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [the-ekumen] article in Time Magazine Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain hi everyone, Again this might be a bit off topic, but has anyone read this article? http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1083935,00.html?internalid=AC Some of it is just bad journalism, but the lady who said these things has the biggest sales in fantasy so apparently, she has a say these in these things. I wonder the what the next generation will feed on though. Some fantastic highlights (besides what she was wearing the day of the interview): "It's precisely Rowling's lack of sentimentality, her earthy, salty realness, her refusal to buy into the basic clichŽs of fantasy, that make her such a great fantasy writer. The genre tends to be deeply conservative--politically, culturally, psychologically. It looks backward to an idealized, romanticized, pseudofeudal world, where knights and ladies morris-dance to Greensleeves. Rowling's books aren't like that. They take place in the 1990s--not in some never-never Narnia but in modern-day Mugglish England, with cars, telephones and PlayStations." The white witch didn't zoom off on a twin turbo diesel engine sliegh and that really spoiled things. There's more " Rowling adapts an inherently conservative genre for her own progressive purposes. Her Hogwarts is secular and sexual and multicultural and multiracial and even sort of multimedia, with all those talking ghosts. If Lewis showed up there, let's face it, he'd probably wind up a Death Eater." Note : "conservative genre" (?) Also "And unlike Lewis, whose books are drenched in theology,... " Drenched. Through and through. "Rowling has never finished The Lord of the Rings. She hasn't even read all of C.S. Lewis' Narnia novels, which her books get compared to a lot." By which they're probably trying to authenticate her writing as completely original, without influence of the only two other fantasy writers this journalist has ever heard of. Ok, am annoyed enough to send this link to you good folks, and will get over this article in a short while, and that it might not be something to worry about tooo much, is it sufficient enough to guess that a lot of people read it and were influenced by it? There is also this opinion expressed by Terry Pratchett http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/4732385.stm which if you read MUST be followed by this http://www.wizardnews.com/story.20050802.html I do believe this is important for all fantasy readers/writers to know. Thanks for your patience!!! Rhea --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good. --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Aug 07 08:21:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n3.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.201.68]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 13:27:23 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=SLDVLD2caudfkiDtJevLqLJ+0qMQ6qc8TCg+ktLalYXY0i0L+RAx0ih0Uvu2ZS3W9WFDqZrOUNpQFBpX1otJX+4ZiIvgCe9/a+YO0thnIgRLE7Y9MglN9D8J6j+9MlXt; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n3.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Aug 2005 20:27:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Aug 2005 20:27:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Aug 2005 20:27:23 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 9218 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2005 20:27:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2005 20:27:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2005 20:27:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Aug 2005 20:27:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Aug 2005 20:27:20 -0000 X-Sender: ldavis@oceanfree.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22230 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2005 13:36:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2005 13:36:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ni-mail3.dna.utvinternet.net) (194.46.8.37) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2005 13:36:24 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (unverified [194.46.73.61]) by ni-mail3.dna.utvinternet.net (Vircom SMTPRS 4.1.361.20) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 14:36:18 +0100 Message-ID: <002401c599c2$ee5e74c0$c31efea9@oemcomputer> To: References: <20050805110129.44497.qmail@web80907.mail.scd.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Originating-IP: 194.46.8.37 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Laurence A Davis" X-Yahoo-Profile: laurencedvs X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 05 Aug 2005 20:27:18 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 14:38:14 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] article in Time Magazine Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Rhea, Le Guin shares her thoughts about Harry Potter -- and an astonishingly wide variety of subjects ranging from Dr Who to Lao Tzu -- in "Chronicles of Earthsea", an edited transcript of an online Q&A session published in the U.K.'s Guardian newspaper in February 2004. Here is the link: http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/sciencefiction/story/0,6000,1144428, 00.html Enjoy. With kind regards, Laurence Davis ----- Original Message ----- From: "rhea daniel" To: Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 12:01 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] article in Time Magazine hi everyone, Again this might be a bit off topic, but has anyone read this article? http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1083935,00.html?internalid= AC Some of it is just bad journalism, but the lady who said these things has the biggest sales in fantasy so apparently, she has a say these in these things. I wonder the what the next generation will feed on though. Some fantastic highlights (besides what she was wearing the day of the interview): "It's precisely Rowling's lack of sentimentality, her earthy, salty realness, her refusal to buy into the basic clichŽs of fantasy, that make her such a great fantasy writer. The genre tends to be deeply conservative--politically, culturally, psychologically. It looks backward to an idealized, romanticized, pseudofeudal world, where knights and ladies morris-dance to Greensleeves. Rowling's books aren't like that. They take place in the 1990s--not in some never-never Narnia but in modern-day Mugglish England, with cars, telephones and PlayStations." The white witch didn't zoom off on a twin turbo diesel engine sliegh and that really spoiled things. There's more " Rowling adapts an inherently conservative genre for her own progressive purposes. Her Hogwarts is secular and sexual and multicultural and multiracial and even sort of multimedia, with all those talking ghosts. If Lewis showed up there, let's face it, he'd probably wind up a Death Eater." Note : "conservative genre" (?) Also "And unlike Lewis, whose books are drenched in theology,... " Drenched. Through and through. "Rowling has never finished The Lord of the Rings. She hasn't even read all of C.S. Lewis' Narnia novels, which her books get compared to a lot." By which they're probably trying to authenticate her writing as completely original, without influence of the only two other fantasy writers this journalist has ever heard of. Ok, am annoyed enough to send this link to you good folks, and will get over this article in a short while, and that it might not be something to worry about tooo much, is it sufficient enough to guess that a lot of people read it and were influenced by it? There is also this opinion expressed by Terry Pratchett http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/4732385.stm which if you read MUST be followed by this http://www.wizardnews.com/story.20050802.html I do believe this is important for all fantasy readers/writers to know. Thanks for your patience!!! Rhea --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good. --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Aug 07 08:22:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.39]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 18:23:42 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=hQ9KzLuplwGPWFVLRT8uUgLoRQmJrncUY16WuVvBvvh2qwgyPt9ZUzX0uBA0kANKE/4FsJY9iczsQucR/HPSNgSlKylWKqDzgDDhzKOI2yWBjkNz3uJ/NK+E80Vaktj3; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Aug 2005 01:23:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Aug 2005 01:23:44 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: shevek@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33082 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2005 01:23:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Aug 2005 01:23:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Aug 2005 01:23:43 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Aug 2005 01:23:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.71] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Aug 2005 01:23:43 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002401c599c2$ee5e74c0$c31efea9@oemcomputer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.16 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 202.63.56.57 From: "takver_oz" X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 01:23:41 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: article in Time Magazine Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is the Le Guin on Rowling from the Q&A published in the Guardian: Q: Nicholas Lezard has written 'Rowling can type, but Le Guin can write.' What do you make of this comment in the light of the phenomenal success of the Potter books? I'd like to hear your opinion of JK Rowling's writing style UKL: I have no great opinion of it. When so many adult critics were carrying on about the "incredible originality" of the first Harry Potter book, I read it to find out what the fuss was about, and remained somewhat puzzled; it seemed a lively kid's fantasy crossed with a "school novel", good fare for its age group, but stylistically ordinary, imaginatively derivative, and ethically rather mean-spirited. This echoes my own opinion of the Harry Potter books. To be generous, the series has encouraged more kids into reading, which is a positive, and perhaps to find the true creative talents who have worked in the genre: Le Guin, Tolkien, Lewis, Pratchett are just a few names from the top of my head. Takver --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence A Davis" wrote: > Dear Rhea, > > Le Guin shares her thoughts about Harry Potter -- and an astonishingly wide > variety of subjects ranging from Dr Who to Lao Tzu -- in "Chronicles of > Earthsea", an edited transcript of an online Q&A session published in the > U.K.'s Guardian newspaper in February 2004. Here is the link: > > > > Enjoy. > > With kind regards, > > Laurence Davis > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good. --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Aug 07 08:22:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n7.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.201.60]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 21:33:00 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Np0vWEDW8/uwCO9y96xgGewXInTWnf0zXxtBtnWjUX08aWIzmBZ6q3vet9i8cNN/1S+O2eja5bPLNHWRZWC0/r2Wfz2MiH/fusESmT+ESBjqRceNRTnJyw0Ir2YlKuDQ; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n7.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Aug 2005 04:33:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Aug 2005 04:33:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Aug 2005 04:33:02 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99351 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2005 04:33:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Aug 2005 04:33:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.medsci.usyd.edu.au) (129.78.151.5) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Aug 2005 04:33:00 -0000 Received: by mail.medsci.usyd.edu.au (Postfix, from userid 1049) id A7F78402A4; Sat, 6 Aug 2005 14:32:55 +1000 (EST) To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20050806043255.GA12000@mail.medsci.usyd.edu.au> X-Originating-IP: 129.78.151.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Danny Yee X-Yahoo-Profile: dannyreviews Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 14:32:55 +1000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: article in Time Magazine Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > UKL: I have no great opinion of it. When so many adult critics > were carrying on about the "incredible originality" of the > first Harry Potter book, I read it to find out what the fuss > was about, and remained somewhat puzzled; it seemed a lively > kid's fantasy crossed with a "school novel", good fare for > its age group, but stylistically ordinary, imaginatively > derivative, and ethically rather mean-spirited. The last part of that quote has lead position on my collection of links to serious criticism of the Harry Potter books http:://danny.oz.au/books/notes/harry-potter-criticism.html Any pointers to other articles would be most welcome. Danny. ---------------------------------------------------------- http://dannyreviews.com/ - over eight hundred book reviews http://danny.oz.au/ - civil liberties, travel tales, blog ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good. --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Oct 12 16:03:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:01:59 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=PURtm6sy71CuC1eW2D9M8EuGCV9h2YenkGHgh1CuDmVFjELA0B5dWR2gICuCIOkCQnuhtb3B7B7GOriofs3qpyX4gHYaulgJpaQAl0x1w58QiOBsHtOzai/gV6NrhueA; Received: from [66.94.237.57] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Oct 2005 21:01:58 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by s1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Oct 2005 21:01:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by s1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Oct 2005 21:01:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Oct 2005 21:01:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90125 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2005 21:01:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Oct 2005 21:01:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 2005 21:01:52 -0000 Received: from du-040-0129.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.129] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1ENcsB-0008rB-GR for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 22:01:51 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c5cab9$2d9fe020$81749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.141 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 22:01:52 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] UKL and The Jane Austen Book Club Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2178 I recently read Karen Joy Fowler's novel 'The Jane Austen Book Club' (a good read) in which UKL's books have a walk on part. I don't think this counts as much of a spoiler but comes quite late in the book so you have been warned. Quote: ' "I read those two Le Guins you gave me. In fact I bought a third. I'm halfway through Searoad. She's just amazing. It's been forever since I found a new writer I love like that." Grigg blinked several times. "Le Guin's in a league of her own, of course," he said cautiously. He gained enthusiasm. "But she's written a bunch. And there's other writers you might like, too. There's Joanna Russ and Carol Emshwiller." ' Thought you might be interested. Don't recognise the other SF authors Grigg mentions - can anyone tell me anything about them and do they measure up at all? I don't feel that I see many parallels between UKL and Jane Austen - anyone differ? Hannah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/FXrMlA/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Oct 12 16:06:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.52]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 06:28:03 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? 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(erickaki@pacbell.net@69.231.128.243 with plain) by smtp113.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2005 01:39:52 -0000 In-Reply-To: <000c01c5cab9$2d9fe020$81749ed9@robins6dd110df> References: <000c01c5cab9$2d9fe020$81749ed9@robins6dd110df> Message-Id: <38535322eb530889c91e8e5f19257981@pacbell.net> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-Originating-IP: 68.142.198.212 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Eric Adkins X-Yahoo-Profile: erickaki X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 07 Oct 2005 13:25:06 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 18:38:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] UKL and The Jane Austen Book Club Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2383 Hannah, I have not read Carol Emshwiller, but I have been meaning to try. Her father was a major SF book cover illustrator turned experimental filmmaker. I was told he had to turn down the traveling slit screen sequence of "2001: A Space Odyssey", due to illustrative deadlines. He was a nice fellow, I met him as the Dean of Cal Arts film school, were I was a student in the mid-eighties. He was there ten years before me and ten years after until his death. Carol had been writing screenplays at the time. Eric On Oct 6, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Robins- one of wrote: > I recently read Karen Joy Fowler's novel 'The Jane Austen Book Club' > (a good read) in which UKL's books have a walk on part.  I don't think > this counts as much of a spoiler but comes quite late in the  book so > you have been warned. > > Quote: > ' "I read those two Le Guins you gave me.  In fact I bought a third.  > I'm halfway through Searoad.  She's just amazing.  It's been forever > since I found a new writer I love like that." > Grigg blinked several times. "Le Guin's in a league of her own, of > course," he said cautiously.  He gained enthusiasm.  "But she's > written a bunch.  And there's other writers you might like, too.  > There's Joanna Russ and Carol Emshwiller." ' > > Thought you might be interested.  Don't recognise the other SF > authors Grigg mentions - can anyone tell me anything about them and do > they measure up at all?  > I don't feel that I see many parallels between UKL and Jane Austen - > anyone differ? > > Hannah > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Science fiction and fantasy > Literary agent fiction > Guin > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > â–ª  Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. >   > â–ª  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > â–ª  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Oct 12 16:05:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n27.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.56]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:51:20 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Kr1tVU6Iz85g8avfnc00ynyHChRyP+rRMVVlGJL3BZppfk9cFOoE723JpAnbDf3W+rKnXX4dC98FJ139fQ6yWNgLfz+WQxc+pLKmYZlORSD9ZunVeW43Lpxu7uqVAsiN; Received: from [66.94.237.61] by n27.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 08:51:20 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by s5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 08:51:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by s5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 08:51:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.106] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 08:51:20 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3898 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2005 08:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2005 08:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.64) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2005 08:51:19 -0000 Received: from user-38lc0ea.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.1.202] helo=computer) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1ENnwZ-00001G-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 04:51:07 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.20051007014135.009f8550@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000c01c5cab9$2d9fe020$81749ed9@robins6dd110df> X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 01:50:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] UKL and The Jane Austen Book Club Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2347 Joanna Russ and Carol Emshwiller are leading women SF writers of Le Guin's generation, both still active, both excellent and disturbing writers. Russ is best known for two powerful feminist novels, "The Female Man" and "We Who Are About To ..." Emshwiller writes mostly short stories, very dense and complex in language, a bit like magical realism. While you're collecting women SF writers, how about Karen Joy Fowler herself? She wrote a wonderful novel called "Sarah Canary" which ... but I'll let you discover that for yourself. No, Le Guin is not much like Austen, though if there's any Le Guin book which should show up in an Austen book club it's surely "Searoad" which is likewise a close-focus view of human relationships from very much a female perspective. David Bratman At 10:01 PM 10/6/2005 +0100, Hannah wrote: >I recently read Karen Joy Fowler's novel 'The Jane Austen Book Club' (a good >read) in which UKL's books have a walk on part. I don't think this counts >as much of a spoiler but comes quite late in the book so you have been warned. > >Quote: >' "I read those two Le Guins you gave me. In fact I bought a third. I'm >halfway through Searoad. She's just amazing. It's been forever since I >found a new writer I love like that." >Grigg blinked several times. "Le Guin's in a league of her own, of course," >he said cautiously. He gained enthusiasm. "But she's written a bunch. And >there's other writers you might like, too. There's Joanna Russ and Carol >Emshwiller." ' > >Thought you might be interested. Don't recognise the other SF authors Grigg >mentions - can anyone tell me anything about them and do they measure up at >all? >I don't feel that I see many parallels between UKL and Jane Austen - anyone >differ? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Oct 12 16:06:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 07:36:46 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=oGKbpjgsAeeB1WwZ8yeyR39GCV1cxx37f0InrKp+AdhJpp7sh+QERcxjM/Yx3lAgxWhGS5RqENnjHKqGbiAwc3VhgOhewdV2qfhqaLdXBVes9FYoZMnhMp0xOqq1wWfL; Received: from [66.94.237.57] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 14:36:46 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by s1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 14:36:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by s1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 14:36:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.61] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 14:36:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: hhw@sondryfolk.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1159 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2005 14:36:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2005 14:36:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay.pair.com) (209.68.5.9) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2005 14:36:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 46584 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2005 14:36:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.1.2?) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 7 Oct 2005 14:36:42 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 67.164.34.90 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38535322eb530889c91e8e5f19257981@pacbell.net> References: <000c01c5cab9$2d9fe020$81749ed9@robins6dd110df> <38535322eb530889c91e8e5f19257981@pacbell.net> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.68.5.9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: heather whipple X-Yahoo-Profile: hhwsondry Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 07:36:41 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] UKL and The Jane Austen Book Club Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2425 >Hannah, > >I have not read Carol Emshwiller, but I have been meaning to try. Her >father was a major SF book cover illustrator turned experimental >filmmaker. Ed was her husband, not her father. http://www.sfwa.org/members/emshwiller/ Heather -- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . heather whipple hhw@sondryfolk.net http://www.sondryfolk.net/hhw ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Oct 12 16:06:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.39]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 08:22:19 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=E0f/mSLfSJ4oIWyMve5/myC+I/embd7DLV1e2Qrd+SQWd6spv7IFmYJL1obsBReqtRfTQ8P+hDCIV0fxB8PQ+aeySyZasrJYG/yh/rnLuv3PGihS2Fa+wHD088cIXPoP; Received: from [66.94.237.59] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 15:22:20 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by s3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 15:22:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by s3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 15:22:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 15:22:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: erickaki@pacbell.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46563 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2005 15:22:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2005 15:22:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.204) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2005 15:22:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 6427 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2005 15:22:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?69.231.128.243?) (erickaki@pacbell.net@69.231.128.243 with plain) by smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2005 15:21:56 -0000 In-Reply-To: References: <000c01c5cab9$2d9fe020$81749ed9@robins6dd110df> <38535322eb530889c91e8e5f19257981@pacbell.net> Message-Id: <85afbb85a240a1a7d085f88ceb1c600e@pacbell.net> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-Originating-IP: 68.142.198.204 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Eric Adkins X-Yahoo-Profile: erickaki Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 08:20:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] UKL and The Jane Austen Book Club Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2450 I'm sorry, Yes... it is Susan that is the daughter. Please excuse the last fifteen years of my mind. Eric On Oct 7, 2005, at 7:36 AM, heather whipple wrote: > >Hannah, > > > >I have not read Carol Emshwiller, but I have been meaning to try.  > Her > >father was a major SF book cover illustrator turned experimental > >filmmaker. > > Ed was her husband, not her father. > > http://www.sfwa.org/members/emshwiller/ > > Heather > -- > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > heather whipple > hhw@sondryfolk.net > http://www.sondryfolk.net/hhw > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Science fiction and fantasy > Literary agent fiction > Guin > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > â–ª  Visit your group "the-ekumen" on the web. >   > â–ª  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > â–ª  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Oct 12 16:10:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.201.67]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 8 Oct 2005 08:23:15 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=piLjSkIKLL5Up6GxtK7inr+vbgSZ2/Slndi1ijYnYRQBxSvnzuosqNYMfc4nxL35NRTQ5X4pNpTf2UngaG9zolmeCZiI8Q7KYIlxOT3mKNNLnzuhkR+GZqX7dTcFwDfJ; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Oct 2005 15:23:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Oct 2005 15:23:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.94] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Oct 2005 15:23:14 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29562 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2005 15:23:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2005 15:23:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2005 15:23:06 -0000 Received: from du-040-0007.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.7] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1EOGXR-000DSK-Fk for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 08 Oct 2005 16:23:06 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c5cc1c$2ffdcd00$07749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: <4.1.20051007014135.009f8550@mail.earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.143 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 4:13:32:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 16:23:07 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] UKL and The Jane Austen Book Club Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2748 Thanks David. I've been able to order The Female Man and Sarah Canary from my local library - will report back any comparisons that seem worthwhile! Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Bratman" To: Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] UKL and The Jane Austen Book Club > Joanna Russ and Carol Emshwiller are leading women SF writers of Le Guin's > generation, both still active, both excellent and disturbing writers. > Russ > is best known for two powerful feminist novels, "The Female Man" and "We > Who Are About To ..." Emshwiller writes mostly short stories, very dense > and complex in language, a bit like magical realism. > > While you're collecting women SF writers, how about Karen Joy Fowler > herself? She wrote a wonderful novel called "Sarah Canary" which ... but > I'll let you discover that for yourself. > > No, Le Guin is not much like Austen, though if there's any Le Guin book > which should show up in an Austen book club it's surely "Searoad" which is > likewise a close-focus view of human relationships from very much a female > perspective. > > David Bratman > > > > At 10:01 PM 10/6/2005 +0100, Hannah wrote: >>I recently read Karen Joy Fowler's novel 'The Jane Austen Book Club' (a >>good >>read) in which UKL's books have a walk on part. I don't think this counts >>as much of a spoiler but comes quite late in the book so you have been > warned. >> >>Quote: >>' "I read those two Le Guins you gave me. In fact I bought a third. I'm >>halfway through Searoad. She's just amazing. It's been forever since I >>found a new writer I love like that." >>Grigg blinked several times. "Le Guin's in a league of her own, of >>course," >>he said cautiously. He gained enthusiasm. "But she's written a bunch. >>And >>there's other writers you might like, too. There's Joanna Russ and Carol >>Emshwiller." ' >> >>Thought you might be interested. Don't recognise the other SF authors >>Grigg >>mentions - can anyone tell me anything about them and do they measure up >>at >>all? >>I don't feel that I see many parallels between UKL and Jane Austen - >>anyone >>differ? > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Oct 12 16:15:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n26.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.55]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:15:53 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=JPXPKS1nWBqkHA4kLHVDrdh4K0MUaiP6SsrqG2NAkSwwcfiNsoHiRDff/nCrKKOQZf+57/PgUn7ySsxGitNlMWX9+gNUly20rdtq9HdOjZ8wAmXN6/pVxz9SCuSIWLB1; Received: from [66.94.237.61] by n26.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2005 15:15:53 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by s5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2005 15:15:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by s5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2005 15:15:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.61] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2005 15:15:53 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 79202 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2005 15:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Oct 2005 15:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Oct 2005 15:15:52 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2005 15:13:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2005 15:13:46 -0000 X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19494 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2005 09:43:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Oct 2005 09:43:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp08.web.de) (217.72.192.226) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Oct 2005 09:43:22 -0000 Received: from [217.185.78.252] (helo=diane) by smtp08.web.de with asmtp (WEB.DE 4.105 #317) id 1EOuBg-0002JX-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:43:17 +0200 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <434A53B2.29758.40443F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <1128850490.131.36516.m19@yahoogroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-description: Mail message body X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Originating-IP: 217.72.192.226 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Diane Severson" X-Yahoo-Profile: divadiane1 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 10 Oct 2005 15:13:46 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:42:42 +0200 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Female Man Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3234 Hi Hannah! > Thanks David. I've been able to order The Female Man and Sarah Canary from > my local library - will report back any comparisons that seem worthwhile! > Hannah I've been meaning to read the Female Man ever since I bought it at a used book store. Perhaps we could read it "together" and discuss it? It's not exactly on topic though, at this list, but we could do it privately, I suppose. That is, if you're at all interested. Do you know about the Feminist SF Fantasy and Utopian ListServ and website? it's a great resource for all things connected with that subject. The Listserv discusses everything and anything on topic and has a Book Discussion Group as well. www.feministsf.org Enjoy! Diane ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Oct 12 16:15:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.44]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:17:06 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=gVAyQiNWbwGiX5xumbCu/3r4Ffqq9guXbtxsJ04fi2XgxgJ/igvHoTBt0kIAneR5PiSDHEumEwngP4QokZIbedztE6TbtiDNww5XBU1iyR2DsasShjBLhV+mFiSCx3N/; Received: from [66.94.237.59] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2005 17:17:07 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by s3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2005 17:17:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by s3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2005 17:17:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2005 17:17:07 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42105 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2005 17:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Oct 2005 17:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Oct 2005 17:17:05 -0000 Received: from du-040-0141.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.141] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1EP1Gp-0003Pa-Da for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:17:03 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c5cdbe$6de6cdd0$8d749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: <434A53B2.29758.40443F@localhost> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.143 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 4:13:32:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:17:00 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Female Man Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3287 Diane Becomes on topic if we compare with UKL I think. And others can join in with this if they want. Haven't got the book myself yet though Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Severson" To: Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Female Man > Hi Hannah! > >> Thanks David. I've been able to order The Female Man and Sarah Canary >> from >> my local library - will report back any comparisons that seem worthwhile! >> Hannah > > I've been meaning to read the Female Man ever since I > bought it at a used book store. Perhaps we could read it > "together" and discuss it? It's not exactly on topic though, > at this list, but we could do it privately, I suppose. That is, > if you're at all interested. Do you know about the > Feminist SF Fantasy and Utopian ListServ and website? > it's a great resource for all things connected with that > subject. The Listserv discusses everything and anything > on topic and has a Book Discussion Group as well. > www.feministsf.org > > Enjoy! > Diane > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Oct 12 16:19:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from UNKNOWN-66-94-237-18.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.18]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:46:07 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=DN1p3b0hdLSEbuJK5SRUMuYRmcDSBA+0/5+Ps3A0FSYf5M3fFw0sMmOJtiOzMb9xrcM0ziTJDIuZ7kxh5mvemCmlCaVjSzggEveZDvYZeLiTm/V/vBeIV0zfR7j36S5c; Received: from [66.94.237.57] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Oct 2005 17:45:49 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by s1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Oct 2005 17:45:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by s1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Oct 2005 17:45:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Oct 2005 17:45:49 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: divadiane@web.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52378 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2005 17:45:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Oct 2005 17:45:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fmmailgate06.web.de) (217.72.192.247) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2005 17:45:47 -0000 Received: by fmmailgate06.web.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/webde Linux 0.7) with SMTP id j9BHi7FB028994 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:45:46 +0200 Received: from [172.183.222.14] by freemailng5904.web.de with HTTP; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:45:45 +0200 Message-Id: <226931561@web.de> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Organization: http://freemail.web.de/ X-Originating-IP: 217.72.192.247 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Diane Severson X-Yahoo-Profile: divadiane1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:45:45 +0200 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Female Man Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3719 OK, cool! Just let me know if and when you get it and start reading and I'll join you. Diane the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com schrieb am 11.10.05 11:51:13: There are 2 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: The Female Man From: "Diane Severson" 2. Re: The Female Man From: "Robins- one of" ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:42:42 +0200 From: "Diane Severson" Subject: Re: The Female Man Hi Hannah! > Thanks David. I've been able to order The Female Man and Sarah Canary from > my local library - will report back any comparisons that seem worthwhile! > Hannah I've been meaning to read the Female Man ever since I bought it at a used book store. Perhaps we could read it "together" and discuss it? It's not exactly on topic though, at this list, but we could do it privately, I suppose. That is, if you're at all interested. Do you know about the Feminist SF Fantasy and Utopian ListServ and website? it's a great resource for all things connected with that subject. The Listserv discusses everything and anything on topic and has a Book Discussion Group as well. www.feministsf.org Enjoy! Diane ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:17:00 +0100 From: "Robins- one of" Subject: Re: The Female Man Diane Becomes on topic if we compare with UKL I think. And others can join in with this if they want. Haven't got the book myself yet though Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Severson" To: Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Female Man > Hi Hannah! > >> Thanks David. I've been able to order The Female Man and Sarah Canary >> from >> my local library - will report back any comparisons that seem worthwhile! >> Hannah > > I've been meaning to read the Female Man ever since I > bought it at a used book store. Perhaps we could read it > "together" and discuss it? It's not exactly on topic though, > at this list, but we could do it privately, I suppose. That is, > if you're at all interested. Do you know about the > Feminist SF Fantasy and Utopian ListServ and website? > it's a great resource for all things connected with that > subject. The Listserv discusses everything and anything > on topic and has a Book Discussion Group as well. > www.feministsf.org > > Enjoy! > Diane > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Oct 24 14:11:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:56:26 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Ln25aF0aV5aMjE2ApSRUJsogFAyriSXxEUt1GYY7JJ9FP/nbGzLV6iJdAqP2f0Wnx9TLqsjaEnE2OzB2by+A9EtYO+yzipBXS4Z+1T4ertUQEDyVZun71P8MXCR4aCmX; Received: from [66.94.237.57] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 16:56:27 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by s1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 16:56:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by s1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 16:56:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.96] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 16:56:27 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67842 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2005 16:56:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2005 16:56:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2005 16:56:22 -0000 Received: from du-040-0209.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.209] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1ERBo4-0006db-G6 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:56:21 +0100 Message-ID: <002f01c5d272$8b6390b0$d1749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: References: <226931561@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.143 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:56:24 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Female Man Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All Diane and I both have the book now and think we might start discussing how it compares with UKL from 1 November if anyone else is interested in joining in Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Severson" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Female Man > > > OK, cool! Just let me know if and when you get it and start reading and > I'll join you. > > Diane > > > the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com schrieb am 11.10.05 11:51:13: > > > > > > There are 2 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: The Female Man > From: "Diane Severson" > 2. Re: The Female Man > From: "Robins- one of" > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:42:42 +0200 > From: "Diane Severson" > Subject: Re: The Female Man > > Hi Hannah! > >> Thanks David. I've been able to order The Female Man and Sarah Canary >> from >> my local library - will report back any comparisons that seem worthwhile! >> Hannah > > I've been meaning to read the Female Man ever since I > bought it at a used book store. Perhaps we could read it > "together" and discuss it? It's not exactly on topic though, > at this list, but we could do it privately, I suppose. That is, > if you're at all interested. Do you know about the > Feminist SF Fantasy and Utopian ListServ and website? > it's a great resource for all things connected with that > subject. The Listserv discusses everything and anything > on topic and has a Book Discussion Group as well. > www.feministsf.org > > Enjoy! > Diane > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:17:00 +0100 > From: "Robins- one of" > Subject: Re: The Female Man > > Diane > Becomes on topic if we compare with UKL I think. And others can join in > with this if they want. > Haven't got the book myself yet though > Hannah > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Diane Severson" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 10:42 AM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Female Man > > >> Hi Hannah! >> >>> Thanks David. I've been able to order The Female Man and Sarah Canary >>> from >>> my local library - will report back any comparisons that seem >>> worthwhile! >>> Hannah >> >> I've been meaning to read the Female Man ever since I >> bought it at a used book store. Perhaps we could read it >> "together" and discuss it? It's not exactly on topic though, >> at this list, but we could do it privately, I suppose. That is, >> if you're at all interested. Do you know about the >> Feminist SF Fantasy and Utopian ListServ and website? >> it's a great resource for all things connected with that >> subject. The Listserv discusses everything and anything >> on topic and has a Book Discussion Group as well. >> www.feministsf.org >> >> Enjoy! >> Diane >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Nov 02 14:05:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.35]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2005 14:10:09 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=sjDlpFLB1Pq+4vTkEojQkxxmNlLqtNPWd3Zxy+0Yti8USx3ochNtk4cJudA/RcCYojp7mwHbeZHAb1G+rWWjxBelr/mr2yi2l5TRVe7Y3w1owoJnp6/mMdwYz30R5rfH; Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n1.bm.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2005 22:10:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2005 22:10:11 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87860 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2005 22:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Nov 2005 22:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Nov 2005 22:10:09 -0000 Received: from du-040-0001.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.1] helo=robins6dd110df) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.46) id 1EX4KV-000JyM-D2 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:10:07 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c5df31$03d9bcc0$01749ed9@robins6dd110df> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 80.168.70.143 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 22:10:03 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Female Man Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1824 Hi it's the 1 November I thought of 3 things to say: 1. The Female Man was a really slow start. I was about half way through the book before I got involved. Compare that with UKL books e.g. The Dispossessed where immediately you are in the action, and the forewoman takes charge and she has a definite personality coming across as well as giving you a jolt because she was a woman (well it was the 70s) and with The Telling where again the atmosphere and the personality strike you right between the eyes ... I'm sure there's lots to say about UKL beginnings but not many authors have that ability to engage straight away 2. Attitudes to men. UKL has her share of awful and narrow and bigoted men but she also has a range of men you can relate to and admire - George Orr, Ged, Old Music, to name a few - and then some surprises where your attitudes change as the story develops like Yara - but Female Man is short on sympathy for the male gender. It has some quite satisfying moments when the vile men are given their come uppance but at the end you feel that she is really too hard on half the human race. It is also part I think of what gives the book it's dated quality - and there's quite a lot of women being pseudo men which was part of the earlier feminism of course - been there, done that, got the tee-shirt - but to be fair Joanna Russ is doing something more subtle than that, contrasting a number of different approaches to female roles leading to my 3rd point 3. Interesting feminist ideas. Oh yes she has a number of those! The feminist slant on the parallel universe idea is clever, the wholly female world making an interesting contrast to Gethen, where people are potential and not male or female, this a more constructed version - the aggressive segregated world with some parallels with Werrel and Yeowe. And the male sex slave construct a refreshing parody of male porn Hope to hear some more views! Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robins- one of" To: Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Female Man > All > Diane and I both have the book now and think we might start discussing how > it compares with UKL from 1 November if anyone else is interested in > joining in > Hannah > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Diane Severson" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 6:45 PM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Female Man > > >> >> >> OK, cool! Just let me know if and when you get it and start reading and >> I'll join you. >> >> Diane >> >> >> the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com schrieb am 11.10.05 11:51:13: >> >> >> >> >> >> There are 2 messages in this issue. >> >> Topics in this digest: >> >> 1. Re: The Female Man >> From: "Diane Severson" >> 2. Re: The Female Man >> From: "Robins- one of" >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:42:42 +0200 >> From: "Diane Severson" >> Subject: Re: The Female Man >> >> Hi Hannah! >> >>> Thanks David. I've been able to order The Female Man and Sarah Canary >>> from >>> my local library - will report back any comparisons that seem >>> worthwhile! >>> Hannah >> >> I've been meaning to read the Female Man ever since I >> bought it at a used book store. Perhaps we could read it >> "together" and discuss it? It's not exactly on topic though, >> at this list, but we could do it privately, I suppose. That is, >> if you're at all interested. Do you know about the >> Feminist SF Fantasy and Utopian ListServ and website? >> it's a great resource for all things connected with that >> subject. The Listserv discusses everything and anything >> on topic and has a Book Discussion Group as well. >> www.feministsf.org >> >> Enjoy! >> Diane >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:17:00 +0100 >> From: "Robins- one of" >> Subject: Re: The Female Man >> >> Diane >> Becomes on topic if we compare with UKL I think. And others can join in >> with this if they want. >> Haven't got the book myself yet though >> Hannah >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Diane Severson" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 10:42 AM >> Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Female Man >> >> >>> Hi Hannah! >>> >>>> Thanks David. I've been able to order The Female Man and Sarah Canary >>>> from >>>> my local library - will report back any comparisons that seem >>>> worthwhile! >>>> Hannah >>> >>> I've been meaning to read the Female Man ever since I >>> bought it at a used book store. Perhaps we could read it >>> "together" and discuss it? It's not exactly on topic though, >>> at this list, but we could do it privately, I suppose. That is, >>> if you're at all interested. Do you know about the >>> Feminist SF Fantasy and Utopian ListServ and website? >>> it's a great resource for all things connected with that >>> subject. The Listserv discusses everything and anything >>> on topic and has a Book Discussion Group as well. >>> www.feministsf.org >>> >>> Enjoy! >>> Diane >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Nov 11 19:05:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n8.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.201.61]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2005 13:33:23 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=nanAHukKUlrzdqIgX1Myn1SQgJGrXjqNsRxfk1vyCr955FzPXq0FPMYKxQa5F9g1msoLLjJvykktdmToUAAI/qPOmLTkDoPHXDUicm+5l8zxIH1wOK68TnEHqXL9/U+W; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n8.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Nov 2005 21:33:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Nov 2005 21:33:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Nov 2005 21:33:24 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ldavis@oceanfree.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18652 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2005 21:33:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2005 21:33:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ni-mail1.dna.utvinternet.net) (194.46.8.62) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2005 21:33:22 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (unverified [194.46.235.32]) by ni-mail1.dna.utvinternet.net (Vircom SMTPRS 4.2.425.4) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2005 21:33:17 +0000 X-Modus-BlackList: ldavis@oceanfree.net=OK Message-ID: <007901c5e3e2$de92bdc0$7e8dfea9@oemcomputer> To: "The Ekumen" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Originating-IP: 194.46.8.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Laurence A Davis" X-Yahoo-Profile: laurencedvs Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 21:33:18 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Call for Papers: Anarchism and Utopianism (1/7/06; collection) Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1051 Dear Friends, Please find pasted below a call for papers that may be of interest. Ruth and I would be delighted to receive proposals from members of the Ekumen discussion group, and we would be grateful if you could circulate the announcement to anybody else you think may be interested. With kind regards, Laurence -- Call for Papers For a proposed edited collection of essays on: Anarchism and Utopianism We extend this call for papers to authors from all disciplines interested in exploring the relationship between anarchism and utopianism. The history of the relationship between anarchism and utopianism is marked by ambivalence. On the one hand, many classical anarchist thinkers such as Bakunin and Kropotkin repeatedly emphasized the "scientific" character of their social philosophy in an effort to distance themselves from the charge of utopianism. Likewise, most utopian authors have tended to emulate the state-centered utopian model propagated by Plato and More rather than the more libertarian example of de Foigny, Diderot, and Morris. On the other hand, a number of more contemporary anarchist utopian writers have explicitly questioned the mutual exclusivity of anarchism and utopianism. Herbert Read, for example, vigorously defended libertarian utopian thinking in his book Anarchy and Order, Paul Goodman consistently championed a pragmatic form of utopianism that had a tremendous influence on the counter-culture of the 1960s, and Ursula K. Le Guin published in 1974 the first anarchist utopia. Far from being merely of literary or historical interest, related elements of both the anarchist and utopian traditions have continued to inspire and inform a range of contemporary radical social movements, including global anti-capitalism, ecologism, feminism, pacifism, post-colonialism, and black, gay, and indigenous liberation. In Anarchism and Utopianism, the first ever collection of original essays devoted to an assessment of the relationship between these two important traditions, we aim to fill a significant gap in the scholarly literature and to encourage further reflection on the as yet untapped revolutionary potential of anarchist utopianism. We welcome papers that address any aspect of the subject, whether the focus is philosophical (for example, to what extent and in what precise ways are anarchist and utopian ideas compatible?), literary (anarchism and utopianism in the work of Morris, Wilde, or Le Guin, for instance; what might an anarchist society look and feel like?), historical (the legacy of anarchist utopianism in the Paris Commune, the Spanish Revolution, the May 1968 uprisings, etc.), sociological (anarchist utopian perspectives on work, consumerism, war, gender, sexuality, race, education, art, spirituality, technology, and ecology), anthropological (what can anarchist utopians learn from actually existing stateless and marketless societies? does the idea of primitivism have a role to play in the construction of anarchist utopias?), or political (the relationship of means to ends, and anarchist utopianism as revolutionary practice and vital response to sme of the most pressing problems of the contemporary world). If you are interested in contributing to the volume, please e-mail to both of the editors by January 7, 2006 an essay title, c. 500-word proposal, and a very brief list of your relevant publications. Note that contributors to the collection may also have the opportunity - subject to the final approval of the USSE conference program chair - to present their work at the Seventh Annual Conference of the Utopian Studies Society Europe, to be held in July 2006 in the historical port city of Tarragona, Spain. Dr. Laurence Davis Laurence Davis has taught political theory at Oxford University and University College Dublin, and is the editor (with Peter Stillman) of The New Utopian Politics of Ursula K. Le Guin's The Dispossessed (Lexington Books, 2005). E-mail: ldavis@oceanfree.net Dr. Ruth Kinna Ruth Kinna, Senior Lecturer in Politics at Loughborough University, UK, is the author of Anarchism: A Beginner's Guide (Oneworld, 2005). E-mail: r.e.kinna@lboro.ac.uk [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 12 09:37:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.54]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:54:52 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=tfcZDPyHRoOJ0IwvtDux2Wrp0Uhfmdfr3Sbk12EQtHoVAQmnVtvWVNVlQklk1Gj7dhAi9PtbqQySBZBP/7Ij/LNktZm4hPqcukKoBunCgY7ufoDcmCtFbsEbPI/vcxYA; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2005 19:54:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2005 19:54:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 87047 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2005 19:54:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2005 19:54:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.225) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2005 19:54:51 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n5.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2005 19:53:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2005 19:53:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.71] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2005 19:53:33 -0000 X-Sender: abraxas@drizzle.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (qmail 23516 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2005 11:50:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2005 11:50:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jetspin.drizzle.com) (216.162.192.5) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2005 11:50:31 -0000 Received: from 8mkkx01 (wet105.drizzle.com [216.162.201.105]) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id jBBBnkNq028627 for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 03:49:46 -0800 Message-ID: <040301c5fe48$fea2f500$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 216.162.192.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Tyresias Hound" From: "Tyresias Hound" X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 11 Dec 2005 19:53:33 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 03:49:35 -0800 Subject: [the-ekumen] Newbie Introduction Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings Ekumenists, I'm a queer 39 year old writer (just completing the last 100 pages of the first draft of my first novel(and of course I'm utterly devoted to the Duchess, as Mr. Ellison calls her. Like most of us, I expect, I read the Earthsea books in junior high school and have been a slobbering fanboy ever since. I bought the first edition of "Always Coming Home", the one with the charming audio tape, and have the first hardback edition of "Tehanu". Since that time, I've lost part of my vision, so in more recent times, I've purchased the audio versions of "The Other Wid" and the collecdtion of Earthsea stories. My favorite is the one where Ged catches up with the powerful unruly Roke student and...well, I won't give it away, if anyone here hasn't read it. But the denoument of mercy and forgiveness is heartbreaking and profound. I know, big surprise, right? Anyway, I'm delighted to have discovered the Ekumen, and look forward to exchangeing thoughts about Madame's oevre with some passionate friendly folks. --Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/7zgKlB/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 12 09:38:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.203.233]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:59:08 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=M1GjrAta+Z5N0Am2hfDseEVBly9ksSt3/4MPgdiQ+JJBVIvhMn8JQoolCHOt0tjm+VmtMXe4viLJRDCTnZ/EiKf52UqLonq3rO9GqGHnk/J3S15+OJnwSE2PkAHm6chp; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n10.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2005 00:59:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2005 00:59:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2005 00:59:10 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 52536 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2005 00:59:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2005 00:59:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2005 00:59:09 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2005 00:59:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by mailer2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2005 00:59:06 -0000 X-Sender: vorpal_bunnies@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89749 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2005 23:48:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2005 23:48:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2005 23:48:18 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2005 23:47:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2005 23:47:04 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 65.184.193.101 From: "John" X-Yahoo-Profile: vorpal_bunnies X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 12 Dec 2005 00:59:05 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:47:02 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] "The Left Hand of Darkness" quotes Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm writing a paper for an English class on Ursula K. Le Guin and I need some help finding a few quotes in "The Left Hand of Darkness". I wrote these down when I first read the book years ago, but I failed to note the page numbers! If anyone has an etext of this book and can tell me what chapter they're found in, or if you just happen to know what chapter they're in (as page numbers can vary with each edition), it would be a great help. "If civilization has an opposite, it is war. Of those two things, you have either one, or the other. Not both." "The unknown," said Faxe's soft voice in the forest, "the unforetold, the unproven, that is what life is based on. Ignorance is the ground of thought. Unproof is the ground of action." "The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty: not knowing what comes next." Thanks in advance. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/7zgKlB/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 12 09:38:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:20:01 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=C7AUEnvgd+vLXMOk01+NoiE76ScU1uB42siq1irY4mSlBekpvFkc5BIc3OTTcmvE+fv82AI/YxI3F9tpmZ7CyB9h2W5o6EEqNpLErycH0I9nEbg9Rl/kPuqFKSrP/F9I; Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2005 01:20:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2005 01:20:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: hhw@sondryfolk.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57031 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2005 01:20:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2005 01:20:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay03.pair.com) (209.68.5.17) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2005 01:20:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 44334 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2005 01:19:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.1.2?) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 12 Dec 2005 01:19:59 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 134.10.122.91 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.68.5.17 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: heather whipple X-Yahoo-Profile: hhwsondry Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:19:57 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] "The Left Hand of Darkness" quotes Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can't vouch for the accuracy of these resources, but the first quote is cited on this page: http://www.faculty.english.ttu.edu/clarke/classes/3386/s05/Left%20Hand%20of%20Darkness%201-10.htm and the other two here: http://theliterarylink.com/leftquotes.html Heather >I'm writing a paper for an English class on Ursula K. Le Guin and I >need some help finding a few quotes in "The Left Hand of Darkness". >I wrote these down when I first read the book years ago, but I >failed to note the page numbers! If anyone has an etext of this >book and can tell me what chapter they're found in, or if you just >happen to know what chapter they're in (as page numbers can vary >with each edition), it would be a great help. > >"If civilization has an opposite, it is war. Of those two things, >you have either one, or the other. Not both." > > >"The unknown," said Faxe's soft voice in the forest, "the >unforetold, the unproven, that is what life is based on. Ignorance >is the ground of thought. Unproof is the ground of action." > > >"The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable >uncertainty: not knowing what comes next." > >Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . heather whipple hhw@sondryfolk.net http://www.sondryfolk.net/hhw [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/7zgKlB/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 12 09:38:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:41:22 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=qiz25U1KmoDo+F9UbPCydPqHQEsAPOCxxXpNngBXdfc1p00nH3KYApG361SNx9WrKcODWT24u5umVoYJ9OAI+WGr7++/vCdvA8EN/aPHj1MiZnVCc35KJE3zRHEg+wan; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2005 04:41:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2005 04:41:25 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: tirin@takver.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96110 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2005 04:41:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2005 04:41:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail3-apollo.linuxengine.net) (69.93.41.155) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2005 04:41:23 -0000 Received: from apollo.linuxengine.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail3-apollo.linuxengine.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jBC4fIpB009137 for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:41:20 -0600 Received: (from neo@localhost) by apollo.linuxengine.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id jBC4fCcM009016; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:41:12 -0600 Message-Id: <200512120441.jBC4fCcM009016@apollo.linuxengine.net> X-Authentication-Warning: apollo.linuxengine.net: neo set sender to tirin@takver.com using -f To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: WebMail X-IPAddress: 202.63.56.57 X-Spam-Score: 0 () X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.51 on 69.93.41.132 X-Originating-IP: 69.93.41.155 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4:0 X-eGroups-From: "takver" From: "takver" X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:41:12 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Newbie Introduction Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Welcome Bill, to the Ekumen. It has been a bit quiet lately, but every now and again it comes alive with discussion, debate, and occasionally news on Ursula Le Guin and new books, stories, or interviews. Like a true Anarresti, I am kept busy initiating revolution, well mostly information, as a social justice activist and journalist on Indymedia and Wikipedia. "The Revolution is in the individual spirit, or it is nowhere." said Shevek to the PDC meeting. My first Le Guin book was The Dispossessed in 1975, when Ms Le Guin visited Australia to attend the Worldcon in Melbourne. Unfortunately I was 800km away in Sydney at the time! But since then I have read all her books, stories, essays and poems. in solidarity Takver http://www.takver.com > > > > Greetings Ekumenists, > > I'm a queer 39 year old writer (just completing the last 100 pages of the first draft of my first novel(and of course I'm utterly devoted to the Duchess, as Mr. Ellison calls her. > > Like most of us, I expect, I read the Earthsea books in junior high school and have been a slobbering fanboy ever since. I bought the first edition of "Always Coming Home", the one with the charming audio tape, and have the first hardback edition of "Tehanu". Since that time, I've lost part of my vision, so in more recent times, I've purchased the audio versions of "The Other Wid" and the collecdtion of Earthsea stories. My favorite is the one where Ged catches up with the powerful unruly Roke student and...well, I won't give it away, if anyone here hasn't read it. But the denoument of mercy and forgiveness is heartbreaking and profound. I know, big surprise, right? > > Anyway, I'm delighted to have discovered the Ekumen, and look forward to exchangeing thoughts about Madame's oevre with some passionate friendly folks. > > > --Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/7zgKlB/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 12 09:38:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.41]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:22:01 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=We78mIJPgOCVd9v/XMUum4Fhj7kKq/oudIVFm5zt+U3q71zAGTUZk665NtMKAhrUybSgsfZc0JJ7SFoExBvP5tvdmqjLy9xb5LlFUDR40kycEP0bKyrRTTBfNXU1PNdD; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2005 07:22:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2005 07:22:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: abraxas@drizzle.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27190 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2005 07:22:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2005 07:22:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jetspin.drizzle.com) (216.162.192.5) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2005 07:22:02 -0000 Received: from 8mkkx01 (wet105.drizzle.com [216.162.201.105]) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id jBC7Lo2U015808 for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:21:50 -0800 Message-ID: <003201c5feec$bb318990$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> To: References: <200512120441.jBC4fCcM009016@apollo.linuxengine.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 216.162.192.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Tyresias Hound" From: "Tyresias Hound" Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:21:55 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Newbie Introduction Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the welcome, Takver. Because of some things that I've experienced in the last seven years or so,that revolution has been hatched in me. I invite you and all Ekumenists to take a gander at my blog: http://apocalypsehilton.com I haven't blogged for a while, because my novel has taken precedence over everything. But although it comes from a queer Catholic perspective rather than a Taoist one, I have a sense that it might be interesting, or at least entertaining, to fans of Madame LeGuin . There are four or five sections on faith, writing, my (rather staid) personal life,and general kvetching. I also have a Yahoo Group which y'all's are invited to join: apocalypsi-subscribe@yahoogroups.com It's a very small group of thoughtful people who mostly don't have time to write, so when there's traffic at all, a lot of it is me yakking about something or other. But I think the ideas that tend to get discussed there might interest Ekumenists as well. And I'd love to see it become used for something besides --or as well as-- my personal bully pulpit. All would-be Sheveks are certainly welcome. Pace, --Bill (or Brax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "takver" To: Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Newbie Introduction > Welcome Bill, > to the Ekumen. It has been a bit quiet lately, but every now and again > it comes alive with discussion, debate, and occasionally news on Ursula > Le Guin and new books, stories, or interviews. > > Like a true Anarresti, I am kept busy initiating revolution, well mostly > information, as a social justice activist and journalist on Indymedia > and Wikipedia. "The Revolution is in the individual spirit, or it is > nowhere." said Shevek to the PDC meeting. > > My first Le Guin book was The Dispossessed in 1975, when Ms Le Guin > visited Australia to attend the Worldcon in Melbourne. Unfortunately I > was 800km away in Sydney at the time! But since then I have read all her > books, stories, essays and poems. > > in solidarity > Takver > http://www.takver.com > >> >> >> >> Greetings Ekumenists, >> >> I'm a queer 39 year old writer (just completing the last 100 pages of > the first draft of my first novel(and of course I'm utterly devoted to > the Duchess, as Mr. Ellison calls her. >> >> Like most of us, I expect, I read the Earthsea books in junior high > school and have been a slobbering fanboy ever since. I bought the first > edition of "Always Coming Home", the one with the charming audio tape, > and have the first hardback edition of "Tehanu". Since that time, I've > lost part of my vision, so in more recent times, I've purchased the > audio versions of "The Other Wid" and the collecdtion of Earthsea > stories. My favorite is the one where Ged catches up with the powerful > unruly Roke student and...well, I won't give it away, if anyone here > hasn't read it. But the denoument of mercy and forgiveness is > heartbreaking and profound. I know, big surprise, right? >> >> Anyway, I'm delighted to have discovered the Ekumen, and look forward > to exchangeing thoughts about Madame's oevre with some passionate > friendly folks. >> >> >> --Bill > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/7zgKlB/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 14 15:04:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n7b.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([209.73.160.74]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:28:28 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2005 18:28:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2005 18:28:24 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-YahooFilteredBulk: 206.46.252.42 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56682 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2005 18:28:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2005 18:28:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vms042pub.verizon.net) (206.46.252.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2005 18:28:18 -0000 Received: from Zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.223.126.152]) by vms042.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IRI000DZ3AMZQ14@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:27:59 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.2.20051214131551.00ba60f0@incoming.verizon.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 X-Originating-IP: 206.46.252.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:28:11 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] new Earthsea movie in the works Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Hi everyone -- I was just checking Ursula's web site for new stuff and saw a link to a Spanish language fan site called "Las Doce Moradas del Viento" (The Wind's Twelve Quarters). The top item on the site is something that wasn't even announced on Le Guin's own site: a new animated movie based on *A Wizard of Earthsea* produced by Studio Ghibli! It's supposed to be out in Japan in July of 2006. For those who don't recognize the name, Studio Ghibli -- and more specifically their main director, Hayao Miyazaki -- has produced some of the most respected animated films of the last 10 years, including *Princess Mononoke* and *Spirited Away*. Their most recent film was an adaptation of Diana Wynne Jones's book, *Howl's Moving Castle*. Though there were significant changes made to the plot, the author was pleased with the result. Quite in contrast to Ursula's experience with the SciFi Channel *Earthsea* miniseries! Here are some links for those who want more info: Las Doce Moradas del Viento (in Spanish) http://www.docemoradas.com/ "Confirmada para julio de 2006 la pel’cula Gedo Senki" (in Spanish) http://www.docemoradas.com/leguin/tn/1/ver/466/titulo/Confirmada-para-julio-de-2006-la-pel%EDcula-Gedo-Senki Active Anime News Item (in English) http://www.activeanime.com/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2467&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 Studio Ghibli Web Site (in Japanese) http://www.ghibli.jp/top.html (includes big graphic of the movie poster) ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Calexico -- Feast of Wires "Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist." ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 14 15:04:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.203.233]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:11:42 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Kq7OH5VZV0jVYVSI3hW2AVJjQd6YPF6SPmTi3ys+UXaURCGnIKOO1Q8bPPF62s3LAxld0+vnVjOiINLsjFd5jyMNsqiZhl1idtzxEIB0Z5AlsN2vtCnIZhz1AIhlylWG; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n10.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2005 19:11:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2005 19:11:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2005 19:11:43 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: janeluther@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10535 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2005 19:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2005 19:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO xproxy.gmail.com) (66.249.82.196) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2005 19:11:42 -0000 Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id t12so146574wxc for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.20.10 with SMTP id 10mr1099435wxt; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.11.5 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:07:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20051214131551.00ba60f0@incoming.verizon.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20051214131551.00ba60f0@incoming.verizon.net> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.196 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Jane Hyde X-Yahoo-Profile: jane3ncri Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:07:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] new Earthsea movie in the works Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is super-duper news! I'm a great fan of Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli and will look forward to this venture. I though Howl's Moving Castle was a great movie. -- Jane [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 14 15:04:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n8b.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([209.73.160.75]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:14:17 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2005 19:14:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2005 19:14:13 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-YahooFilteredBulk: 209.68.3.41 X-Sender: hhw@sondryfolk.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23884 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2005 19:14:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2005 19:14:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wbm1.pair.net) (209.68.3.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2005 19:14:11 -0000 Received: by wbm1.pair.net (Postfix, from userid 65534) id A525526CA5; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:13:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from 134.10.176.32 ([134.10.176.32]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user hhw@sondryfolk.net) by webmail1.pair.com with HTTP; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:13:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <49583.134.10.176.32.1134587581.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20051214131551.00ba60f0@incoming.verizon.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20051214131551.00ba60f0@incoming.verizon.net> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Originating-IP: 209.68.3.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0 From: "heather w" X-Yahoo-Profile: hhwsondry Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:13:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] new Earthsea movie in the works Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There's been a little informationa about this posted in the LeGuin community on Livejournal: http://www.livejournal.com/community/leguin/10014.html (scroll down for more info in comments) http://www.livejournal.com/community/leguin/10714.html Heather Janice E. Dawley wrote: > Hi everyone -- > > I was just checking Ursula's web site for new stuff and saw a link to a > Spanish language fan site called "Las Doce Moradas del Viento" (The Wind's > Twelve Quarters). The top item on the site is something that wasn't even > announced on Le Guin's own site: a new animated movie based on *A Wizard of > Earthsea* produced by Studio Ghibli! It's supposed to be out in Japan in > July of 2006. > > For those who don't recognize the name, Studio Ghibli -- and more > specifically their main director, Hayao Miyazaki -- has produced some of > the most respected animated films of the last 10 years, including *Princess > Mononoke* and *Spirited Away*. Their most recent film was an adaptation of > Diana Wynne Jones's book, *Howl's Moving Castle*. Though there were > significant changes made to the plot, the author was pleased with the > result. Quite in contrast to Ursula's experience with the SciFi Channel > *Earthsea* miniseries! > > Here are some links for those who want more info: > > Las Doce Moradas del Viento (in Spanish) > http://www.docemoradas.com/ > > "Confirmada para julio de 2006 la pel’cula Gedo Senki" (in Spanish) > http://www.docemoradas.com/leguin/tn/1/ver/466/titulo/Confirmada-para-julio-de-2006-la-pel%EDcula-Gedo-Senki > > Active Anime News Item (in English) > http://www.activeanime.com/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2467&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 > > Studio Ghibli Web Site (in Japanese) > http://www.ghibli.jp/top.html (includes big graphic of the movie poster) > > ----- > Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT > http://therem.net/ > Listening to: Calexico -- Feast of Wires > "Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist." > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ........................................ heather whipple hhw@sondryfolk.net http://www.sondryfolk.net/hhw ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 15 10:09:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.203.223]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:25:35 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=ER2PN6iVh/j7rlUkulGoOBZ11M42jC1C2C3aT1M/k1GdTQmrukwt0n3RkyiqyRVBhZSQbbSpkaIxeu3IOP+Flf+Xo24ZgC6cU2ntzPxPKA60sAH16IxaJJELQKtT9CFc; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n3.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 00:25:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 00:25:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by mailer4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 00:25:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: princess_alicat@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2949 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2005 00:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2005 00:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31011.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.201.69) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2005 00:25:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 11119 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Dec 2005 00:24:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20051215002433.11117.qmail@web31011.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.95.88.47] by web31011.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 00:24:33 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <49583.134.10.176.32.1134587581.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com> X-Originating-IP: 68.142.201.69 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cat X-Yahoo-Profile: princess_alicat Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 00:24:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] new Earthsea movie in the works Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At first I thought "oh god" and then when I saw Studio Gibli I thought "Hooray!" ;) No matter what it's like, it can't possibly be worse than the recent miniseries, though I'm sure it will be a fair adaptation anyway. Alison ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 15 10:09:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.203.222]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:24:21 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=DVM8IZPeWWHxtNEuOL7PJ/8ab1wFhTL27yy9cxo6AVwdVTPsZjedcq6M6FfG9el62hlnvccYAh4Is85kZCx6iJeuXVNtKsZ5Kqomu4RiLo310Ti3gtV4zUFDBxg/u6YB; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 01:24:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 01:24:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 01:24:23 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: abraxael@drizzle.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85072 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2005 01:24:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2005 01:24:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jetspin.drizzle.com) (216.162.192.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2005 01:24:21 -0000 Received: from 8mkkx01 (wet105.drizzle.com [216.162.201.105]) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id jBF1O44o015503 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:24:04 -0800 Message-ID: <002501c60116$4145f590$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> To: References: <20051215002433.11117.qmail@web31011.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 216.162.192.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "William L. Houts" Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:24:11 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] new Earthsea movie in the works Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > what it's like, it can't possibly be worse than > the recent miniseries, though I'm sure it will be > a fair adaptation anyway. I'm don't have a television and am half blind anyway. I heard about the miniseries and was very excited, though. What turned out to be wrong with it? How was the Ged they cast? Did they do the whole initial trilogy, or just TWOE? --Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 15 10:10:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.53]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:16:41 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=ZrOlVgiO3xM+COPKJxQi3JMH3hu+0MvenptYNaouGRTnvRKIEeLdnYUsgL4E2/eg7Ew+aJLJZq9SVKPXE8E7vhnMaOKUItC3f11VPu+GZQ70VGJTDTi2GcS3XEcr61zW; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 02:16:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 02:16:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: princess_alicat@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83326 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2005 02:16:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2005 02:16:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.201.73) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2005 02:16:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 8627 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Dec 2005 02:16:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20051215021640.8625.qmail@web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.95.88.47] by web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 02:16:39 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <002501c60116$4145f590$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> X-Originating-IP: 68.142.201.73 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cat X-Yahoo-Profile: princess_alicat Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 02:16:39 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] new Earthsea movie in the works Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm don't have a television and am half blind > anyway. I heard about the > miniseries and was very excited, though. What > turned out to be wrong with > it? How was the Ged they cast? Did they do > the whole initial trilogy, or just TWOE? They smooshed together Wizard and Tombs of Atuan. It was ALL WRONG! lol First, Ged was white. In fact, the only black character was Ogion. They switched Ged's true name and his use name. At least Tenar looked right. But then you know that whole thing about wizards being celibate? Well, Ged and Tenar end up together in the end, and the last thing you see in the miniseries is them kissing. The gebbeth was really cool, though. But back to picking it apart! ;) There were female students at Roke, which was basically turned into Hogwarts, Jasper became a traitor who helped the Priest King of "the Kargide Kingdom" (King Tygath, did you ever even see him in the books? no? well he had a whole big role in the miniseries!) to not only attack the Isle of Roke, but break into the very school of magic, taking over and "killing" the Archmagus! But it was ok because it turns out that Jasper was the Archmagus in disguise. Kossil framed Tenar for murder, and High Priestess Thar stripped her of her priestesshood and threw her in the dungeon. (That whole pesky reincarnation plot was tossed aside.) So Tenar doesn't taunt Ged, toy with him, learn the passageways in the Labyrinth. And at the end when Ged realises that the other half of the ring is hidden in one of Tenar's keys, opening this huge doorway releases the Nameless Ones (like zombie flying monkeys) and the temple collapses, but that's pretty much it. Because the Nameless Ones were really our own shadows, and we have only to reconcile with them, or something. UGH. Did I miss anything? ;) Alison ___________________________________________________________ NEW Yahoo! Cars - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online! http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 15 10:10:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.40]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:03:04 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Nf3K/mIqA8+9oWjimY6XbBD+a0VPlSeM8V1SjLj0usY+8lTm+pOq4bDCJkmEijbYQLXRqbrTrdyzArJq9MkjmqPkqAzrS7dCa0icxNhTT539fjbuXtsE0u62vgWe0HhV; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 03:03:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 03:03:06 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44978 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2005 03:03:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2005 03:03:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.36) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2005 03:03:05 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by mail.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id jBF2tXO4011050 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 21:55:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 14 Dec 2005 21:55:33 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20051215025532.GE12580@NYCMJCOWA2> References: <002501c60116$4145f590$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> <20051215021640.8625.qmail@web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20051215021640.8625.qmail@web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Originating-IP: 65.246.141.36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "John.Cowan" From: "John.Cowan" X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 21:55:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] new Earthsea movie in the works Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cat scripsit: > Did I miss anything? ;) You forgot the Conflict between Reason and Faith. Very important, that Conflict. Theme of the whole movie, according to its makers. Well, Tolkien nailed the issue down years ago: what a writer needs to get from Hollywood is Art or Cash. Hopefully UKL got the Cash; JRRT was (IMO) fortunate enough to get both posthumously. -- Even a refrigerator can conform to the XML John Cowan Infoset, as long as it has a door sticker jcowan@reutershealth.com saying "No information items inside". http://www.reutershealth.com --Eve Maler http://www.ccil.org/~cowan ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> AIDS in India: A "lurking bomb." Click and help stop AIDS now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpTY2A/lzNLAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 15 10:10:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.55]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:41:01 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Y9I/20NT4MSU6SsCDz/HO2vHFn+q1Zi15TipnSkdjqI7iO5smCY5ChW+x3ru1oefHfc1U9vj/ufy0B+mRAlsxGncgecA/EwQcQmX3HJKoKywSIwao6yk7bV9FEgA+GNR; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 03:41:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.106] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 03:41:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: princess_alicat@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3034 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2005 03:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2005 03:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31013.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.201.71) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2005 03:41:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 33735 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Dec 2005 03:41:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20051215034100.33733.qmail@web31013.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.95.88.47] by web31013.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 03:41:00 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20051215025532.GE12580@NYCMJCOWA2> X-Originating-IP: 68.142.201.71 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cat X-Yahoo-Profile: princess_alicat Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 03:41:00 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] new Earthsea movie in the works Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You forgot the Conflict between Reason and > Faith. Very important, that > Conflict. Theme of the whole movie, according > to its makers. I must have been too busy being disgusted at the complete lack of accuracy to notice that theme. ;) Alison ___________________________________________________________ NEW Yahoo! Cars - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online! http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 15 10:10:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.38]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:53:16 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=K+y3vzqQdMyOY0h28vIqXVdQ03x8tGFkBpnd0xhU70IG0G2pU2/sDTNeUCdn6IfJp3uDhSSGeBXutGF7fUeeykfbFF8YxEGHZlpN+Whu3T8rOzjAqze0FagIych7mlMR; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 03:53:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 03:53:19 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: abraxael@drizzle.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25642 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2005 03:53:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2005 03:53:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jetspin.drizzle.com) (216.162.192.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2005 03:53:18 -0000 Received: from 8mkkx01 (wet105.drizzle.com [216.162.201.105]) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id jBF3po4o008059 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:51:50 -0800 Message-ID: <004001c6012a$e66ac910$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> To: References: <20051215021640.8625.qmail@web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 216.162.192.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "William L. Houts" Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:51:58 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] new Earthsea movie in the works Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh my God. That was MUCH worse than I had imagined. Zombie flyihng monkeys? You don't "reconcile" with the Nameless Ones,what kind of hack did they get to write the script? Bleaugh! AndGed is swarthy or light skinned black, everyone knows that. Who did they get to play him, for godsakes, Fabio? I could vomit. And what about the Ring of Erreth-Akbe? I think I'm going to cry now. --Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cat" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] new Earthsea movie in the works >> I'm don't have a television and am half blind >> anyway. I heard about the >> miniseries and was very excited, though. What >> turned out to be wrong with >> it? How was the Ged they cast? Did they do >> the whole initial trilogy, or just TWOE? > > They smooshed together Wizard and Tombs of Atuan. > It was ALL WRONG! lol > > First, Ged was white. In fact, the only black > character was Ogion. They switched Ged's true > name and his use name. At least Tenar looked > right. But then you know that whole thing about > wizards being celibate? Well, Ged and Tenar end > up together in the end, and the last thing you > see in the miniseries is them kissing. The > gebbeth was really cool, though. But back to > picking it apart! ;) There were female students > at Roke, which was basically turned into > Hogwarts, Jasper became a traitor who helped the > Priest King of "the Kargide Kingdom" (King > Tygath, did you ever even see him in the books? > no? well he had a whole big role in the > miniseries!) to not only attack the Isle of Roke, > but break into the very school of magic, taking > over and "killing" the Archmagus! But it was ok > because it turns out that Jasper was the > Archmagus in disguise. Kossil framed Tenar for > murder, and High Priestess Thar stripped her of > her priestesshood and threw her in the dungeon. > (That whole pesky reincarnation plot was tossed > aside.) So Tenar doesn't taunt Ged, toy with him, > learn the passageways in the Labyrinth. And at > the end when Ged realises that the other half of > the ring is hidden in one of Tenar's keys, > opening this huge doorway releases the Nameless > Ones (like zombie flying monkeys) and the temple > collapses, but that's pretty much it. Because the > Nameless Ones were really our own shadows, and we > have only to reconcile with them, or something. > UGH. > > Did I miss anything? ;) > > Alison > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > NEW Yahoo! Cars - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars > online! http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/ > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 15 10:11:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:35:42 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=KF6zorrAT8fFy0pino7/GzXlqSa3tNUCKrdFDPlU7EQjp/keVohLDkM0iCIfqINwO5CYlxq5xDsb7x0KaxlG/I99UjR4rvYqUfayPGW3TgV+RE3/HvIgc8JBRMYsNT0U; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 04:35:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.98] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 04:35:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: princess_alicat@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15721 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2005 04:35:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2005 04:35:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31013.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.201.71) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2005 04:35:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 51600 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Dec 2005 04:32:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20051215043239.51598.qmail@web31013.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.95.88.47] by web31013.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 04:32:39 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <004001c6012a$e66ac910$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> X-Originating-IP: 68.142.201.71 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cat X-Yahoo-Profile: princess_alicat Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 04:32:39 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] new Earthsea movie in the works Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > AndGed is swarthy or light skinned black, > everyone knows that. Who did they > get to play him, for godsakes, Fabio? Shawn Ashmore, the guy who's playing Iceman in Xmen. He's white, blue eyed, blonde curly haired. But he got a bit of a tan for the role. *rolls eyes* > And what about the Ring of Erreth-Akbe? That was the part of the thing that was hidden on Tenar's key. Get had the other ... let's see if I can remember (I'm surpessing the memory - lol) ... I think it was his only keepsake of his dead mother's? Alison ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Exclusive Xmas Game, help Santa with his celebrity party - http://santas-christmas-party.yahoo.net/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 15 10:11:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.38]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 21:00:07 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=DqK3e4bMGyn/A/KzqZlQ1lqYxKUT1chPRhn2inKCHwZo/Z2j7am2adpkPXuZ3Tn7VSTICBi+uFEj27XXBDYuFpVL+8WX7Jcbj3LwKCbDz1eUdAuN3LufPj+92RIXQdta; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 05:00:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 05:00:07 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: abraxael@drizzle.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83091 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2005 05:00:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2005 05:00:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jetspin.drizzle.com) (216.162.192.5) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2005 05:00:06 -0000 Received: from 8mkkx01 (wet105.drizzle.com [216.162.201.105]) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id jBF4xO4o009943 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:59:24 -0800 Message-ID: <005701c60134$566f74f0$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> To: References: <20051215043239.51598.qmail@web31013.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 216.162.192.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "William L. Houts" Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:59:32 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] new Earthsea movie in the works Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Shawn Ashmore, the guy who's playing Iceman in > Xmen. He's white, blue eyed, blonde curly haired. > But he got a bit of a tan for the role. *rollseyes*) I'm with you, sister. Even if Ged was white, he wouldn't be blond and blue eyed. They just totally hosed it, didn't they?At least he could have had dark hair and dark eyes. I'm afraid to ask, but what did they do about the dragons? Did Ged meet Yevaud? (I'm not sure I'm remembering the name right. I'm thinking it began with an A, and Yevaud is a different dragon.) Finally, what about the True Speech? Was there any of it in the movie, or even any reference to it? I can't figure out what made them think altering it so grotesquely would be a good idea. Anybody who has read the books wants to see LeGuin's narrative realized on screen, not some mediocre scripthack's positions on Reason & Faith, or his third-hand Joseph Campbell gloss on Confronting the Shadow. Someone should get the marrow in their bones turned to molten lead. Does anyone have the spell handy? I think I lent out that lore book. --Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 15 10:11:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:48:10 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=HxtiUYZWemLWEfmCv7z7iqsHazWMXsrMj4vVbte0t6DBx6fqDPVP6Mi8yZDOkSx3mtUKp38mTkqa2MQMIsONNHxI/w+6BnJmbVU8AehdCsg0g0MzpiXSsf4OOGnl+Pe9; Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 07:48:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2005 07:48:14 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: princess_alicat@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14354 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2005 07:48:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2005 07:48:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31007.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.200.170) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2005 07:48:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 17535 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Dec 2005 07:48:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20051215074809.17533.qmail@web31007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.95.88.47] by web31007.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:48:09 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <005701c60134$566f74f0$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> X-Originating-IP: 68.142.200.170 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cat X-Yahoo-Profile: princess_alicat Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:48:09 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] new Earthsea movie in the works Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm afraid to ask, but what did they do about > the dragons? Did Ged meet Yevaud? Actually, yes. He and Vetch (who at least had brown hair and was the right shape for his character) sailed off to the eastern islands. Vetch's sister even had a pet dragon, if I remember correctly. But Ged learning/realising/remember the dragon's true name (as with pretty much everything he did in the miniseries) had no feeling of power and deep talent/knowledge to it. It was panicked and seemed like a lucky guess, rather than coming from Ged's incredible abilities with the True Speech. At least I remember Ged having more than a faint idea what he was doing, when I read the books. The miniseries Ged seemed clueless, and way too talkative. > Finally, what about the True Speech? Was there > any of it in the movie, or > even any reference to it? Yes, they referred to it, and there was sharing of true names. When they spoke in the True Speech, there was a voice effect to show that it was different from regular speech. Alison ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Dec 17 14:45:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.35]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 05:04:44 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Rv+1S1qIZ2Qq4Q4so3P9ewslrkdPCKEoXdYlXhcOlWgJkJUKFOKvya4Zj15HaTgon0/QXzQE96Sr7s/NQym31soQyxPOJji8EvjtQWBigQ0I0yY6JBWSQjEgqz8YS5cS; Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2005 13:04:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2005 13:04:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 58564 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2005 13:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2005 13:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2005 13:04:40 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2005 13:03:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2005 13:03:56 -0000 X-Sender: jokerine@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36711 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2005 09:06:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2005 09:06:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2005 09:06:42 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2005 09:05:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2005 09:05:28 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.55 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.69.229.78 From: "jokerinchen" X-Yahoo-Profile: jokerinchen X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 16 Dec 2005 13:03:54 -0000 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:05:26 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] "hello, I«m new here..." Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain I«m from Germany and actually suposed to work on my masters thesis in chemistry. I was on the lookout for fellow fans of U.K. leGuin, because all the "fantasy fans" I meet have never heard of Madame. It«s hard work preaching the gospels to people who compare Tolkien with Rowling and then argue about whos prettier Legolas or Aragorn. I was introduced to LeGuin«s A wizard of earth sea when I spent my freshman Highschool year in the U.S. I imeadiatly bought the rest of the CYcle and since then I«ve read most of her books. Well so much for that. Hello and nice to meet you J. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Dec 17 14:45:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.203.222]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:26:10 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=LT2BPWLkms2z0at7aMyzQIxOrZ6y1pXIDAF3CAkfyscXOcQVd3794HBfc4rp/nhXINTIwHj+TNNwF/BtSi5hLIrhys3fIxEigdskCXiCFYxLk4b+fNFgN0oPDa9TwQ9i; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2005 14:26:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2005 14:26:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2005 14:26:08 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: abraxael@drizzle.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48620 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2005 14:26:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2005 14:26:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jetspin.drizzle.com) (216.162.192.5) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2005 14:26:06 -0000 Received: from 8mkkx01 (wet105.drizzle.com [216.162.201.105]) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id jBGEPIsB000644 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:25:18 -0800 Message-ID: <025801c6024c$8add8060$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 216.162.192.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Abraxael" Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:25:19 -0800 Subject: "Re: [the-ekumen] hello, I«m new here..." Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It«s hard work preaching the gospels to people who compare Tolkien with Rowling and then argue about whos prettier Legolas or Aragorn. > I was introduced to LeGuin«s A wizard of earth sea when I spent my > freshman Highschool year in the U.S. I imeadiatly bought the rest of the > CYcle and since then I«ve read most of her books. Hey J, I'm a recent Ekumnist too. I'm very glad to meet you, even if the seemingly innocuous phrase, "It's hard work" does give some of us Americans cause to shudder. --Brax ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Dec 17 14:51:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.36]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 00:54:44 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=JNvIT7uiYK6PLykatGvlT3gL2TwwoLE2zq9iAuptAh5TCxr9CsUZTNHx3wHBlauuPVoAeLokdrRqRDePxt1tZZGCDAe3AYYZp/LwiXA1fzqt6Zo36Cx6kAF5BeHpoVdN; Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2005 08:54:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.35] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2005 08:54:44 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9713 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2005 08:54:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2005 08:54:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.67) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2005 08:54:43 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfilv.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.202.191] helo=DB) by pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EnXnH-0000Ua-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 03:51:56 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.20051217004129.009c8e20@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 00:44:03 -0800 Subject: [the-ekumen] UKL interview in the Guardian Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excerpts: >Her credit to JK Rowling for giving the "whole fantasy field a boost" is >tinged with regret. "I didn't feel she ripped me off, as some people did," >she says quietly, "though she could have been more gracious about her >predecessors. My incredulity was at the critics who found the first book >wonderfully original. She has many virtues, but originality isn't one of >them. That hurt." >Her 20th novel, Gifts, now out in Orion paperback, begins a new series for >young adults, "The Annals of the Western Shore". The second book, Voices, >will be published in March. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Dec 17 14:51:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n5a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.203.225]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 03:23:34 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=NB6I1SAi/+8ANBjjxuj7x4EDj/I3SQ+FxCJa7/Y0nAGhFGdiSgdrvpInhOBkDMVUi3it3cwohIKvVKNOZqZG0Fe9/iJANujcyOlO6ThsjvkyDZ0dv3cz/pBur3XfaopL; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n5.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2005 11:23:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2005 11:23:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.106] by mailer2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2005 11:23:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5123 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2005 11:23:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2005 11:23:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp11.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.30) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2005 11:23:31 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([81.84.16.6] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp11.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:23:07 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <025801c6024c$8add8060$0400a8c0@8mkkx01> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Dec 2005 11:23:07.0845 (UTC) FILETIME=[415FCF50:01C602FC] X-Originating-IP: 212.113.174.30 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: rowcliffe Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:23:03 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] hello, I«m new here... Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Hi I guess there are many of us like me in the group, who listen for the most part and chip in a few words occasionally. So what I wanted to add was how so often we tend to digress from Ursula's words, which are, after all, the source and probably what is essential here. Films are films: words are words. For example, consider the opening line in the Omelas story: WITH a clamor of bells that set the swallows soaring, the Festival of Summer came to the city Omelas, bright-towered by the sea. What a wake up call to the importance of spirituality in our lives. Best wishes Ian on 05/12/16 14:25, Abraxael at abraxael@drizzle.com wrote: > It«s hard work preaching the gospels to people who compare Tolkien with > Rowling and then argue about whos prettier Legolas or Aragorn. >> I was introduced to LeGuin«s A wizard of earth sea when I spent my >> freshman Highschool year in the U.S. I imeadiatly bought the rest of the >> CYcle and since then I«ve read most of her books. > > > Hey J, > > I'm a recent Ekumnist too. I'm very glad to meet you, even if the seemingly > innocuous phrase, "It's hard work" does give some of us Americans cause to > shudder. > > > > --Brax > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Dec 17 14:51:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.36]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 03:42:56 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=FWfGslqrSb29iSmr1YNVtGOiZ0RswCJ0HrjKyVv9jqxvFKYjGarQkwtaRR0sWWvzcXjuXU9LwiuCFykkw3tvQ+XNo/qbiEFGXxNZHuQmyj7voyvpP3lFcUQORZJfbOxM; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2005 11:42:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2005 11:42:57 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dy@raitax.pair.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61826 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2005 11:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2005 11:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO raitax.pair.com) (209.68.2.16) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2005 11:42:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 22587 invoked by uid 3168); 17 Dec 2005 11:41:49 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20051217114149.GA22501@entity.id.au> X-Originating-IP: 209.68.2.16 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Danny Yee X-Yahoo-Profile: dannyreviews Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 06:41:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] UKL interview in the Guardian Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit # "She has many virtues, but originality isn't one of them. That hurt." I prefer the UKL quote on Rowling from an earlier review http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/sciencefiction/story/0,6000,1144428,00.html "good fare for its age group, but stylistically ordinary, imaginatively derivative, and ethically rather mean-spirited" Which is pretty much my feeling about the Harry Potter books too. http://dannyreviews.com/h/Harry_Potter.html -- contrast with http://dannyreviews.com/a/Ursula_K._Le_Guin.html Danny. ---------------------------------------------------------- http://dannyreviews.com/ - over seven hundred book reviews http://danny.oz.au/ - civil liberties, travel tales, blog ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Dec 17 14:51:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.36]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 03:43:20 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=dsNbEpRwoNw69UB+qGHZIZ+eXJKcsFqRDFxp4eMas88Ou989Sh7KXvs4ooAOl4v27gPnbbGPPVva6VsDAzwdMy2XasxAae/s2adUmmfi+sq830Dhx+UeERK2PfSS0PL8; Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2005 11:43:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2005 11:43:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9890 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2005 11:43:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2005 11:43:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp11.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.30) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2005 11:43:19 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([81.84.16.6] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp11.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:42:52 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.1.20051217004129.009c8e20@mail.earthlink.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Dec 2005 11:42:53.0071 (UTC) FILETIME=[03D2F1F0:01C602FF] X-Originating-IP: 212.113.174.30 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: rowcliffe Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:42:50 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] UKL interview in the Guardian Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for posting the link, David. The conclusion was quiet sweet, too: "Sometimes one's very angry and preaches, but I know that to clinch a point is to close it," she says. "To leave the reader free to decide what your work means, that's the real art; it makes the work inexhaustible." Best wishes Ian on 05/12/17 08:44, David Bratman at dbratman@earthlink.net wrote: > 12,00.html> > > Excerpts: > >> Her credit to JK Rowling for giving the "whole fantasy field a boost" is >> tinged with regret. "I didn't feel she ripped me off, as some people did," >> she says quietly, "though she could have been more gracious about her >> predecessors. My incredulity was at the critics who found the first book >> wonderfully original. She has many virtues, but originality isn't one of >> them. That hurt." > >> Her 20th novel, Gifts, now out in Orion paperback, begins a new series for >> young adults, "The Annals of the Western Shore". The second book, Voices, >> will be published in March. > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Dec 17 14:51:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.38]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 07:50:29 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=j51MeduUOWtohbbpXvIeCQoNBYSLbtYOfaf9z+4zF7bczAdgqhUZhYQiJxRRZuz/lFLllWU7xduShTii+4q7PpAVe+XOCd3FPapiclLJSMECBd5E08m5QGGz6zOq+oQI; Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2005 15:50:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by mailer4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2005 15:50:26 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77580 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2005 15:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2005 15:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO aa003msg.fastwebnet.it) (213.140.2.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2005 15:50:22 -0000 Received: from ms001msg.fastwebnet.it (10.31.41.32) by aa003msg.fastwebnet.it (7.2.069.1) id 43A3FBAA00010374 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 16:47:11 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (23.231.163.97) by ms001msg.fastwebnet.it (7.2.069.1) (authenticated as myszka) id 438C6E4E008696AE for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 16:47:10 +0100 Message-ID: <43A43621.7080205@yahoo.it> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050923 Thunderbird/1.0.7 Mnenhy/0.7.2.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 213.140.2.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Lakso Valimaki X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:00:33 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] hello, I«m new here... Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit il giorno 16/12/2005 10.05 jokerinchen ha scritto: > I«m from Germany and actually suposed to work on my masters thesis in > chemistry. Hi J, > I was on the lookout for fellow fans of U.K. leGuin, because all > the "fantasy fans" I meet have never heard of Madame. It«s hard work > preaching the gospels to people who compare Tolkien with Rowling and > then argue about whos prettier Legolas or Aragorn. yes, that happens to me also > I was introduced to LeGuin«s A wizard of earth sea when I spent my > freshman Highschool year in the U.S. I imeadiatly bought the rest of > the CYcle and since then I«ve read most of her books. > Well so much for that. > Hello and nice to meet you J. welcome :) from Lakso, italian one a bit too silent -- still looking for my takver ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 19 10:52:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.203.231]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 05:35:17 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=HCfae7vpXjfrLBymHWaYhNJ2Yc3yU6RkIzBcXN37jpXHWox51UEVdk/HgmFHS2a7Bj4q9wwSiE0+HpD92tArl1y9w5wzk6il+t9X/+SoZOGau4RfquwpOajatKtJXriz; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n8.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2005 13:35:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by mailer2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2005 13:35:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2005 13:35:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: schwelle@libero.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85364 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2005 13:35:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2005 13:35:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp8.libero.it) (193.70.192.92) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2005 13:35:15 -0000 Received: from localhost (172.16.1.47) by smtp8.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 439D91AB009EF585 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:29:43 +0100 Received: from smtp3.libero.it ([172.16.1.53]) by localhost (asav7.libero.it [193.70.193.93]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25265-05-15 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:29:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from libero.it (172.16.1.102) by smtp3.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 431C39E00119BD12 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:29:43 +0100 Message-Id: X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "the-ekumen" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.3 (R1) (B3pl11) X-SenderIP: 157.138.67.102 X-Scanned: with antispam and antivirus automated system at libero.it X-Originating-IP: 193.70.192.92 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "schwelle\@libero\.it" X-Yahoo-Profile: nonchiederci Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:29:38 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] "Re:Re: hello, I«m new here..." Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain > From: Lakso Valimaki > Subject: Re: hello, I«m new here... > > il giorno 16/12/2005 10.05 jokerinchen ha scritto: > > > I«m from Germany and actually suposed to work on my masters thesis in > > chemistry. > > Hi J, > > > I was on the lookout for fellow fans of U.K. leGuin, because all > > the "fantasy fans" I meet have never heard of Madame. It«s hard work > > preaching the gospels to people who compare Tolkien with Rowling and > > then argue about whos prettier Legolas or Aragorn. > > yes, that happens to me also > > > I was introduced to LeGuin«s A wizard of earth sea when I spent my > > freshman Highschool year in the U.S. I imeadiatly bought the rest of > > the CYcle and since then I«ve read most of her books. > > Well so much for that. > > Hello and nice to meet you J. > > welcome :) > from Lakso, italian one a bit too silent Welcome to J. and Hello to Lakso, that's so silent I never even noticed there was another italian in this forum, apart from Diego and me. If I may ask: How were you introduced to UKL's writing?Through her Earthsea saga, the sf work or the winged cats books? It seems (to me) that many read her writings in Highschool: anyone who read them, or to whom they were read, as a child? Cheers Paola/Paula ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 20 18:27:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.38]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:45:33 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=dCScbup7Zp1mLIpGnlWa1E5O2TwUjwhrGMtMHNY0r47cP2O9gckgmExeEYrea3FM+8fSdcsm4RUD6M3atJqmHE91JPPkyQIN4H6gyrmMJ1R1Cy7j0HyGNUNTnZ9oGxcD; Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2005 19:45:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.33] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2005 19:45:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: rsecerlemica@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3222 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2005 19:45:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2005 19:45:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.223) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2005 19:45:31 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n3.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2005 19:45:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by mailer1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2005 19:45:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by mailer6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2005 19:45:09 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <43A43621.7080205@yahoo.it> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.223 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 212.200.83.126 From: "rsecerlemica" X-Yahoo-Profile: rsecerlemica Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:45:07 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] "Re: hello, I«m new here..." Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a Serbian girl a bit too silent too :)but I've been reading the digests for a while now. This italian reunion made me wonder if there are some of my own "countryfolk" on the list? This > still looking for my takver thing is cute :) Is it made just for this occasion? I read the Earthsea quartet maybe a year ago and I enjoyed it. It didn't matter it was ment for much younger audience... I found it trully refreshing and inspiring... Some time ago I also read one of her stories about a boy who had to choose between magic and love, but I cannot remember the name of the story. Does anyone know what's it called? Thanks ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 21 13:18:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.56]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:07:40 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=iUztXuFlmEwPouxvHaWGDWRHWpI3vv7Wv0JF5OhMrGG0JYxA+D0cJvm994cKWphsDmRIDtCQ6El297RiC1aoG6t6dw3SLZPUYwGZ9osG8AbY/RojRFVWA9r5B+RVQTPg; Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2005 00:07:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by mailer8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2005 00:07:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37699 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2005 00:07:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2005 00:07:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vms040pub.verizon.net) (206.46.252.40) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2005 00:07:38 -0000 Received: from Zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.223.126.152]) by vms040.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IRT00AMSMZT4KN1@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:07:06 -0600 (CST) In-reply-to: X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.2.20051220190538.02b20c70@incoming.verizon.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 References: <43A43621.7080205@yahoo.it> X-Originating-IP: 206.46.252.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:07:16 -0500 Subject: "Re: [the-ekumen] Re: hello, I«m new here..." Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 07:45 PM 2005-12-20 +0000, "rsecerlemica" wrote: >Some time ago I also read one of her stories about a boy who had to >choose between magic and love, but I cannot remember the name of the >story. Does anyone know what's it called? That sounds like "Darkrose and Diamond" from the collection *Tales from Earthsea*. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Calexico -- Feast of Wires "Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist." ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 21 13:21:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.52]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:58:28 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=MdUxW1FSaLlB/ugmAq+oLyaSRjvgH1LxdFlt84pc/BulgyE37KyqmSqwZjW0McCf0zB1enEKeuER7al5whTC8SwHEHb76i0wYZphlQtgAvpByrRnH7FWZGKXI4Q/tD06; Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2005 15:58:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2005 15:58:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: rsecerlemica@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14211 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2005 15:58:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2005 15:58:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2005 15:58:26 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2005 15:57:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2005 15:57:21 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20051220190538.02b20c70@incoming.verizon.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 87.116.163.230 From: "rsecerlemica" X-Yahoo-Profile: rsecerlemica Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:57:20 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] "Re: hello, I«m new here..." Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Janice E. Dawley" wrote: > > > That sounds like "Darkrose and Diamond" from the collection *Tales from > Earthsea*. > YES! Thank you very much! I have read it from some other collection of stories called Fantasy something.... Thank you! > ----- > Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT > http://therem.net/ > Listening to: Calexico -- Feast of Wires > "Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist." > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jan 05 16:38:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from n6a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.40]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 24 Dec 2005 12:29:19 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=T310VmehIO7Bj3VPrkC/prz6hGNrF7FZtrQWV/XlvOpANVaQTqmX18veyRp0pUEgz7lY3CYM/y1GYlBQ4DAeIQbJofA0kjVPhrwD3QwUOh5wriRswhCIk7ZBFB/1gq+G; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Dec 2005 20:29:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Dec 2005 20:29:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17174 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2005 20:29:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Dec 2005 20:29:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO aa005msg.fastwebnet.it) (213.140.2.72) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 2005 20:29:17 -0000 Received: from ms003msg.fastwebnet.it (10.31.41.45) by aa005msg.fastwebnet.it (7.2.069.1) id 43AD559100012330 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:29:16 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (23.231.163.97) by ms003msg.fastwebnet.it (7.2.069.1) (authenticated as myszka) id 4381C2E1012502E9 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:29:16 +0100 Message-ID: <43ADB31B.40503@yahoo.it> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050923 Thunderbird/1.0.7 Mnenhy/0.7.2.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 213.140.2.72 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Lakso Valimaki X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:44:11 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] ekumen, italian branch Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit il giorno 19/12/2005 14.29 schwelle@libero.it ha scritto: > Welcome to J. > and Hello to Lakso, that's so silent I never even noticed there was another italian in this forum, apart from Diego and me. ^_^ Well, here I am > If I may ask: How were you introduced to UKL's writing?Through her Earthsea saga, the sf work or the winged cats books? > It seems (to me) that many read her writings in Highschool: anyone who read them, or to whom they were read, as a child? Uhm. I do not understand if this question was for me, anyway yes, I read her during high school. The beginning for me was not Earthsea, was Dispossessed. I still think that her best are Dispossessed and LHD. Shevek and Genly Ai are among my favorite characters from her. Takver is a female character that I rarely have seen in books from other writers. Odo, also. But, of course, I like also her other works. For example, Omelas or the Eye of the Heron... or, ah! Sur. Sur is a great short story. Being involved in pen&paper roleplaying games I wrote down a plot based on Omelas (there has already been a discussione here, about this topic). I would like to set a roleplaying campaign in Earthsea, one day. What about the rest of the italian branch? > Cheers > Paola/Paula ^^ Lakso (Riccardo) -- still looking for my takver ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jan 05 16:38:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 24 Dec 2005 12:35:57 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=A+S4ur0e9qmTiOPyeNRH2RD4RoQYS2d48PGoBk/Nx7FfKwxXzev1zznfZzsTLdG47obEfwbiSAgZwJvG+7MGgOUbJ8E0X0ISRVeB5Gt9ZVegGD0+939SUJlvvuVpzmlF; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Dec 2005 20:35:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Dec 2005 20:35:59 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66320 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2005 20:35:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Dec 2005 20:35:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO aa006msg.fastwebnet.it) (213.140.2.73) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 2005 20:35:58 -0000 Received: from ms004msg.fastwebnet.it (10.31.40.142) by aa006msg.fastwebnet.it (7.2.069.1) id 43ACC87D0002975A for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:35:57 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (23.231.163.97) by ms004msg.fastwebnet.it (7.2.069.3) (authenticated as myszka) id 438F2D7A00A8DBA4 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:35:57 +0100 Message-ID: <43ADB4CB.2060508@yahoo.it> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050923 Thunderbird/1.0.7 Mnenhy/0.7.2.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 213.140.2.73 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Lakso Valimaki X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:51:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: hello, I«m new here. .. Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit il giorno 20/12/2005 20.45 rsecerlemica ha scritto: > I am a Serbian girl a bit too silent too :)but I've been reading the > digests for a while now. Hi > This italian reunion made me wonder if there are some of my > own "countryfolk" on the list? > > This > still looking for my takver thing is cute :) Thank you :) I admit I borrowed this sign from another user (Hi, nicole! :) Yes, I think too it is a nice signature, that's why I ask nicole to be allowed to copy it > Is it made just for this occasion? Oh no, no. It is the signature :) > Some time ago I also read one of her stories about a boy who had to > choose between magic and love, but I cannot remember the name of the > story. Does anyone know what's it called? I have seen that the title has already been identified. Darkrose and Diamond, a good short story, the secondo one of "Tales of Earthsea". I like that story :) -- still looking for my takver ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jan 05 16:38:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.203.223]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:01:06 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=jOICxXLgSDuFGRcF+RTGx4ZVTSr60wkO0Wse4SFR0vTWhoHp4fNbhJC77Um23vdG3TY94YBqRIlhmPDf0jLxDeeEaxgDCH+4f5dOJCxibH4WRfh/VAYXKEp81wKWyqHy; Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n3.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2005 00:01:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by mailer1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2005 00:01:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.32] by mailer6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2005 00:01:08 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: rata@beotel.yu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69456 invoked from network); 25 Dec 2005 00:01:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Dec 2005 00:01:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SCnet.yu) (213.240.60.4) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Dec 2005 00:01:06 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (wdsl-63-107.SCnet.yu [213.240.63.107]) (authenticated bits=0) by SCnet.yu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id jBP01055022177 for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 01:01:01 +0100 Message-ID: <43ADE142.8070105@beotel.yu> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0551-6, 24/12/2005), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 213.240.60.4 X-Originating-IP: 213.240.60.4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4:0 From: Ratibor Trivunac X-Yahoo-Profile: tuzniklovn Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 01:01:06 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: hello, =?UTF-8?B?ScK0bSBuZXcgaGVyZS4uLg==?= Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit rsecerlemica wrote: >I am a Serbian girl a bit too silent too :)but I've been reading the >digests for a while now. >This italian reunion made me wonder if there are some of my >own "countryfolk" on the list? > > Serbian anarchist here. Salud, Anarquia y Colectivismo R. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> AIDS in India: A "lurking bomb." Click and help stop AIDS now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpTY2A/lzNLAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jan 05 16:38:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com ([216.155.203.231]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:02:38 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=V8/Xgmbv7CRQBXm5hMK7xIVJliR58I+aHZWOYYO+eVcuDVA6hOaECwEVjHTHIDKMWriEFDYJ0Blv7GtDtI8rmzEd+Qm+V/XxPXSaCaJ+elfcyxLs6dGdXftgr7cWuJDn; Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n8.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2005 00:02:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by mailer2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2005 00:02:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.103] by mailer6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2005 00:02:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: rata@beotel.yu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43553 invoked from network); 25 Dec 2005 00:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Dec 2005 00:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SCnet.yu) (213.240.60.4) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Dec 2005 00:02:39 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (wdsl-63-107.SCnet.yu [213.240.63.107]) (authenticated bits=0) by SCnet.yu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id jBP02UB5022373 for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 01:02:30 +0100 Message-ID: <43ADE19C.2010906@beotel.yu> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0551-6, 24/12/2005), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 213.240.60.4 X-Originating-IP: 213.240.60.4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4:0 From: Ratibor Trivunac X-Yahoo-Profile: tuzniklovn Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 01:02:36 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: hello, =?UTF-8?B?ScK0bSBuZXcgaGVyZS4uLg==?= Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit rsecerlemica wrote: >I am a Serbian girl a bit too silent too :)but I've been reading the >digests for a while now. >This italian reunion made me wonder if there are some of my >own "countryfolk" on the list? > > Serbian anarchist here. Salud, Anarquia y Colectivismo R. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> AIDS in India: A "lurking bomb." Click and help stop AIDS now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpTY2A/lzNLAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jan 05 16:39:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 06:57:45 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=FQhlFk33lKZPXMHlmCe+Iyzkw77nUwnblR7K1eOXlu6jY6KXUymtfxMM8zWu8u7CVNodcgfEBbCZh+D5FNEVaLlb/WZXyTWGHM5Gc/CPbyx+R48eauNXlDrakYH5OuW+; Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2005 14:57:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2005 14:57:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: magictg@tiscalinet.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91209 invoked from network); 25 Dec 2005 14:57:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Dec 2005 14:57:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-relay-3.tiscali.it) (213.205.33.43) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Dec 2005 14:57:45 -0000 Received: from diegof3wgi8osr (84.222.137.176) by mail-relay-3.tiscali.it (7.2.069.1) id 438439FE0042A616 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 15:54:37 +0100 Message-ID: <006e01c60963$2468d460$b089de54@diegof3wgi8osr> To: References: <43ADB31B.40503@yahoo.it> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Originating-IP: 213.205.33.43 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Diego C" X-Yahoo-Profile: moonwave77 Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 15:54:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] ekumen, italian branch Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here we go italian people =) I am finally back after some pc issues..you know ^^. I had plenty of time to read this period, so I finally got some sci-fi works from Ursula: "The Dispossessed" and "The Lathe of Haven" are very nice books, even if they are so different from her fantasy moods; hope to get them in english soon. I don't remember if I've already told about how I was introduced to ukl: I was 12 maybe, I went into a bookstore then I saw a catchin' cover: a guy with a rod in his hand and a rat on his shoulder. I thought that would have been fine, and it was indeed: Ged become my favourite character ever ;) About an Earthsea environment rpg: that would be very nice. Please let us know about. Cheers, Diego ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lakso Valimaki" To: Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 9:44 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] ekumen, italian branch > il giorno 19/12/2005 14.29 schwelle@libero.it ha scritto: > > > Welcome to J. > > and Hello to Lakso, that's so silent I never even noticed there was another italian in this forum, apart from Diego and me. > > ^_^ Well, here I am > > > If I may ask: How were you introduced to UKL's writing?Through her Earthsea saga, the sf work or the winged cats books? > > It seems (to me) that many read her writings in Highschool: anyone who read them, or to whom they were read, as a child? > > Uhm. I do not understand if this question was for me, anyway yes, I read > her during high school. The beginning for me was not Earthsea, was > Dispossessed. > I still think that her best are Dispossessed and LHD. Shevek and Genly > Ai are among my favorite characters from her. Takver is a female > character that I rarely have seen in books from other writers. Odo, also. > But, of course, I like also her other works. For example, Omelas or the > Eye of the Heron... or, ah! Sur. Sur is a great short story. > > Being involved in pen&paper roleplaying games I wrote down a plot based > on Omelas (there has already been a discussione here, about this topic). > I would like to set a roleplaying campaign in Earthsea, one day. > > What about the rest of the italian branch? > > > Cheers > > Paola/Paula > > ^^ > Lakso (Riccardo) > > -- > still looking for my takver > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jan 05 16:39:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 07:29:43 -0800 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=TuxcqtdVdjN5smSA+sTxpII9/MDRJ7oUsDSd8kZQX2Jpbs4WIln0Jo8kCbDy/OFJoTzjCPhm3cSM8Wncrsp2eVUzaMoaVe1fsHeLAzQScWDzMYACl+tRQlu89tCdnuTS; Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2005 15:29:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2005 15:29:44 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: rsecerlemica@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10329 invoked from network); 25 Dec 2005 15:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Dec 2005 15:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Dec 2005 15:29:42 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2005 15:28:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by mailer8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2005 15:28:52 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <43ADE19C.2010906@beotel.yu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 87.116.158.211 From: "rsecerlemica" X-Yahoo-Profile: rsecerlemica Sender: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 15:28:50 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: hello, I´m new here... Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Hello, hello! Thanks again for the title of the story!!! I liked it too. I read in while I was working in a bookstore and I ran across it by pure accident. I usually keep track of literature I like, but I was in hiding while I did thisÁK °¼ > > > Serbian anarchist here. > > Salud, Anarquia y Colectivismo > > R. > Serbian and anarchist - sounds so natural! Sometimes I think that most of us are just that! Where are you from? I am interested because I donÁÏt think I know any Serbians that are quite as crazy for UKL as I am. You sound you could be it! I am spreading the word about the notions of the revolution in the mind and its responsibilities ÁV the strength it takes and everything. I am very much in love with that idea. I am actually wondering how I would do in an organized and in order environment, and I believe I would miss our philosophy of bending the rules just a bit. That is not really anarchism but it does bring a certain line that pushes you to be at least a bit different than the world around you. ThatÁÏs how I see at anyway. And I do embrace that cultural heritage °¼ Discipline is an entirely different issueÁK.. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/