From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 21:37:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.69]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:44:01 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1030-1073699043-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2004 01:44:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 71153 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2004 01:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2004 01:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.100) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2004 01:44:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pilgrim_000@yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.157] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2004 01:44:02 -0000 X-Sender: pilgrim_000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52951 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2004 23:26:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2004 23:26:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2004 23:26:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.249] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2004 23:25:52 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.72 From: "pilgrim_000" X-Originating-IP: 64.122.41.192 X-Yahoo-Profile: pilgrim_000 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 10 Jan 2004 01:44:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 23:25:48 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Hain Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sort of new to UKL, and read maybe a third of the Hainish series. Are there any stories actually set on Hain, or that go into any detail about the central planet's history or culture? I'm really intrigued that they have hundreds of millenia of history. But so far everything I've read is set on one of the colony planets, and Hain itself is only hinted at. Thanks. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 21:38:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.78]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 18:35:15 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1031-1073702117-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2004 02:35:18 -0000 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39914 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2004 02:35:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2004 02:35:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out003.verizon.net) (206.46.170.103) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2004 02:35:16 -0000 Received: from Zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.81.201]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040110023516.EOGT20713.out003.verizon.net@Zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 20:35:16 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040109211057.020f4c20@incoming.verizon.net> X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [64.222.81.201] at Fri, 9 Jan 2004 20:35:15 -0600 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.46.170.103 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 21:35:20 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hain Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 11:25 PM 2004-01-09 +0000, pilgrim_000 wrote: >Are there any stories actually set on Hain, or that go into any >detail about the central planet's history or culture? I'm really >intrigued that they have hundreds of millenia of history. But so far >everything I've read is set on one of the colony planets, and Hain >itself is only hinted at. The story "A Man of the People" in *Four Ways to Forgiveness* is partially set on Hain and provides some interesting anthropological detail. "Another Story" and "The Shobies' Story" from *A Fisherman of the Inland Sea* have some scenes set on Hain, but they're not very long or informative. There may be others too, but I can't think of them at the moment. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: A Perfect Circle -- Thirteenth Step "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 11 10:18:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.91]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 20:45:38 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1032-1073796340-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.157] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2004 04:45:40 -0000 X-Sender: rubykaye@nyc.rr.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64643 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2004 04:45:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2004 04:45:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com) (24.29.99.224) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2004 04:45:38 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer.nyc.rr.com (66-108-190-89.nyc.rr.com [66.108.190.89]) by nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.10/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with ESMTP id i0B4jaOg016346 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 23:45:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040110232140.038931d0@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> X-Sender: rubykaye@pop-server.nyc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040109211057.020f4c20@incoming.verizon.net> References: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 24.29.99.224 From: "Kathleen M." X-Yahoo-Profile: rubykaye MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 23:43:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hain Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are some brief sketches of life on Hain in the story "Old Music and the Slave Women" from "The Birthday of the World and Other Stories". Old Music, whose full Hainish name is Sohilkelwenyanmurkeres Esdan, has some detailed memories of his childhood on Hain, while he is recuperating from his kidnap and torture during the slave uprising on Werel. This story is a bonus story that continues the Werel/Yeowe storyline from "Four Ways to Forgiveness" - which I personally feel is UKL's most under-appreciated work. I've read it three times and it just gets better every time. Kathleen McGrath New York, NY At 09:35 PM 01/09/2004 -0500, you wrote: >At 11:25 PM 2004-01-09 +0000, pilgrim_000 wrote: > >Are there any stories actually set on Hain, or that go into any > >detail about the central planet's history or culture? I'm really > >intrigued that they have hundreds of millenia of history. But so far > >everything I've read is set on one of the colony planets, and Hain > >itself is only hinted at. > >The story "A Man of the People" in *Four Ways to Forgiveness* is partially >set on Hain and provides some interesting anthropological detail. > >"Another Story" and "The Shobies' Story" from *A Fisherman of the Inland >Sea* have some scenes set on Hain, but they're not very long or >informative. There may be others too, but I can't think of them at the moment. > >----- >Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT >http://therem.net/ >Listening to: A Perfect Circle -- Thirteenth Step >"I've built my white picket fence around the Now, >with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 09:40:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.64]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:59:12 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1034-1073897952-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.157] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2004 08:59:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 81615 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2004 08:59:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2004 08:59:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.107) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2004 08:59:11 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: bschrack1@comcast.net Received: from [66.218.67.178] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2004 08:59:11 -0000 X-Sender: bschrack1@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65950 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2004 03:55:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2004 03:55:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rwcrmhc12.comcast.net) (216.148.227.85) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2004 03:55:58 -0000 Received: from comcast.net (pcp07727150pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net[69.138.245.182]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004011203051201400pnnote> (Authid: bschrack1); Mon, 12 Jan 2004 03:05:13 +0000 Message-ID: <40020EF4.5040008@comcast.net> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 (nscd2) X-Accept-Language: en,es,fr-FR,de To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040110232140.038931d0@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.148.227.85 From: Bonnie Schrack X-Yahoo-Profile: bonnieschrack X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 12 Jan 2004 08:59:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.107 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:05:24 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hain Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1572 Kathleen M. wrote: > This story is a > bonus story that continues the Werel/Yeowe storyline from "Four Ways > to Forgiveness" - which I personally feel is UKL's most > under-appreciated work. I've read it three times and it just gets > better every time. Hear, hear! Same experience here. I LOVE _Four Ways to Forgiveness._ Wonderful, unforgettable characters -- Rakam, Havzhiva, Old Music . . . definitely ranks among her best work. > There are some brief sketches of life on Hain in the story "Old Music and > the Slave Women" from "The Birthday of the World and Other Stories". I guess I should finally get myself a copy of that book, as I've been meaning to do for a while! Bonnie ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 14:34:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.87]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:48:06 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1036-1074113190-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.160] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2004 20:47:58 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75358 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2004 20:46:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2004 20:46:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO zephir.uk.clara.net) (195.8.69.53) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2004 20:46:29 -0000 Received: from du-040-0096.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.96] helo=oemcomputer) by zephir.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AgruC-000EjJ-Cc for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:46:24 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c3dadf$d64df020$60749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040110232140.038931d0@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> <40020EF4.5040008@comcast.net> <000801b41e56$7c9f9560$11ea4c0c@art> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 195.8.69.53 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:48:59 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hain Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, my 18 year old daughter really liked that, and went on to read the Disposessed and the Left Hand of Darkness and is asking for more Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody Ivins" To: Sent: Monday, January 01, 1990 5:17 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hain > Do not miss Birthday of the World! For one thing, we get delightful > description of what goes on in a kemmer house. > > I agree about Old Music and the Slave Women -- very moving, and brilliantly > done. Le Guin continues to examine what violence does to individuals and to > societies with clear-eyed compassion. I've been reading a lot about the > institution of slavery the past year or two, and find Le Guin very > convincing in her depiction of it in this story. > > Melody > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bonnie Schrack" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 10:05 PM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hain > > > > Kathleen M. wrote: > > > > > This story is a > > > bonus story that continues the Werel/Yeowe storyline from "Four Ways > > > to Forgiveness" - which I personally feel is UKL's most > > > under-appreciated work. I've read it three times and it just gets > > > better every time. > > > > Hear, hear! Same experience here. > > > > I LOVE _Four Ways to Forgiveness._ Wonderful, unforgettable characters > > -- Rakam, Havzhiva, Old Music . . . definitely ranks among her best work. > > > > > There are some brief sketches of life on Hain in the story "Old Music > and > > > the Slave Women" from "The Birthday of the World and Other Stories". > > > > I guess I should finally get myself a copy of that book, as I've been > > meaning to do for a while! > > > > Bonnie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 11:19:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.84]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:59:00 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1037-1074192478-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2004 18:50:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 27468 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2004 18:47:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2004 18:47:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.100) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2004 18:47:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: immanent_grove@hotmail.com Received: from [66.218.67.175] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2004 18:47:13 -0000 X-Sender: immanent_grove@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19784 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2004 17:04:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2004 17:04:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.38) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2004 17:04:40 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:04:40 -0800 Received: from 209.210.35.5 by by13fd.bay13.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:04:40 GMT X-Originating-Email: [immanent_grove@hotmail.com] X-Sender: immanent_grove@hotmail.com To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2004 17:04:40.0230 (UTC) FILETIME=[A9CD1C60:01C3DB89] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.31.38 From: "Eric Kniffin" X-Originating-IP: [209.210.35.5] X-Yahoo-Profile: masterpatterner X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 15 Jan 2004 18:47:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:04:40 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] New member Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks. I just found this group as I was looking through ursulakleguin.com, and figured I'd introduce myself. Big, giant, huge, fan of Le Guin's stuff, particularly Earthsea. I'm very pleased to find more people to talk with about all this. :) And if you're interested, come visit a much, much smaller group of us here: http://pub189.ezboard.com/fahirashangarfrm37 This is the Le Guin forum on a site that is primarily dedicated to David Zindell's Neverness books: http://pub189.ezboard.com/bahirashangar I'm Highdrake there. _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://shopping.msn.com/softcontent/softcontent.aspx?scmId=1418 Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Jan 31 13:07:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.75]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 04:16:54 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1038-1075551414-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2004 12:16:54 -0000 X-Sender: pixy_led_v@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65815 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2004 12:16:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2004 12:16:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2004 12:16:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.169] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2004 12:16:41 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.70 From: "pixy_led_v" X-Originating-IP: 80.230.0.123 X-Yahoo-Profile: pixy_led_v MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:16:41 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Searching For Articles Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 296 Hello fellows, I am currently in search for some serious articles about Ursula K. Le Guin and the genres of her writing for a paper I am writing on the subject. If anyone can be of any assistance to me, I will be very grateful. Thank you in advance, and have a lovely week, Pixy-Led. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Feb 10 18:46:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.75]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:21:15 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1039-1076466077-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2004 02:21:18 -0000 X-Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68987 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2004 02:21:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2004 02:21:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2004 02:21:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.170] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2004 02:20:14 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.82 From: "aquila1nz" X-Originating-IP: 130.216.136.27 X-Yahoo-Profile: aquila1nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 02:20:11 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Le Guin chat questions Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/sciencefiction/story/0,6000,11 44428,00.html Wish I'd known about this beforehand. Aquila ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Send the freshest Valentine's flowers with a FREE vase from only $29.99! Shipped direct from the grower with a 7 day freshness guarantee and prices so low you save 30-55% off retail! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_iAw9B/xdlHAA/3jkFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Feb 10 20:34:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.91]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:15:49 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1040-1076469352-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.158] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2004 03:15:52 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20749 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2004 03:15:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2004 03:15:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.119) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2004 03:15:49 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfnbl.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.221.117] helo=computer) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Aqkqp-0005As-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:15:47 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.20040210190338.009c6790@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.119 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:06:14 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin chat questions Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's amazing. Best interview comments by Le Guin that I've ever seen. I shall certainly quote this in the future when asked about Le Guin's taoism: she states clearly that she's an admirer of the taoist philosophers, not a Taoist in the sense of a follower of the religion. And I really like this: Q: Perhaps you feel a bit out of step with your contemporaries? UKL: Why should a woman of 74 want to be "in step with" anybody? Am I in an army, or something? - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Send the freshest Valentine's flowers with a FREE vase from only $29.99! Shipped direct from the grower with a 7 day freshness guarantee and prices so low you save 30-55% off retail! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_iAw9B/xdlHAA/3jkFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Feb 16 15:16:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.106]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:00:18 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1041-1076972391-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Feb 2004 22:59:51 -0000 X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72845 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2004 22:59:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2004 22:59:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.115) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Feb 2004 22:59:50 -0000 Received: from art (235.charlotte-02rh15rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.209.235]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2004021622582311100t9b62e>; Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:58:28 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c3f4e2$15891f00$ebd14c0c@art> To: , "Jeff & Jody" , "Jon" , "Mom" , "Toby" , , "spring" , "Catherine Bythewood" <2manycritters@earthlink.net>, "Roger" , "Kevan" , "Pat Heath" , "Pam Jenkins" , "Frank" , "Jim" , "Tony" , "Scottie Ballard" , "Deb" , "elizabeth" , "Kathy Seaton" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.115 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:10:28 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] I'm going to be published! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey everybody! I just got a notice from the Appalachian poetry magazine Sow's Ear today. I didn't win their annual poetry competition (dang!) but I placed -- they're going to publish two of my entries in their summer issue! Yee haw! They've chosen The Last Cold Night, which is my one love poem to Art (so far), and Bina Speaks, featuring La Grande Princesse Calebina Bina Bina Binette Herself. Let me know if you haven't seen these and would like me to e you a copy. I haven't published a poem since college, so I'm thrilled. Also encouraged to get to work on my submission to the same magazine's chapbook competition. I'm going to go bask now. My, this feels good. Quite happily, Melody [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Feb 16 15:16:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.77]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:05:02 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1042-1076972704-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Feb 2004 23:05:05 -0000 X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76100 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2004 23:05:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2004 23:05:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.115) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Feb 2004 23:05:03 -0000 Received: from art (235.charlotte-02rh15rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.209.235]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2004021623042011100063fte>; Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:04:20 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c3f4e2$e7844f20$ebd14c0c@art> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.115 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:16:25 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Please excuse! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, I beg your pardon. Obviously that note was meant for a few friends, and I had no intention of bombarding all of you busy people with anything so inanely off-topic. Please forgive the intrusion. Melody [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Apr 06 07:28:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.105]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:39:45 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1043-1081240783-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2004 08:39:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 9746 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2004 08:39:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2004 08:39:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2004 08:39:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: fritos_taste_good@yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.161] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2004 08:38:55 -0000 X-Sender: fritos_taste_good@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2809 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2004 02:08:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2004 02:08:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.100) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2004 02:08:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.136] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2004 02:08:36 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.100 From: "Mollie" X-Originating-IP: 66.53.57.83 X-Yahoo-Profile: fritos_taste_good X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 06 Apr 2004 08:38:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.76 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 02:08:35 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Ursula K. Le Guin Research Paper Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone- I just found out that I'm going to be doing a research paper on Ursula K. Le Guin for my Acc. English class and I was wondering if anyone knew about some good websites, books, etc. I can use. Thanks very much! Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Apr 06 20:27:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.78]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:01:20 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1044-1081306882-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Apr 2004 03:01:23 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72481 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2004 03:01:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2004 03:01:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mclean.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.57) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2004 03:01:20 -0000 Received: from user-37kadcu.dialup.mindspring.com ([207.69.53.158] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BB3JW-0006g4-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 23:01:18 -0400 Message-ID: <004201c41c4e$531db860$9e3545cf@com> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.69.200.57 From: "Darius Thieme" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:13:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Ursula K. Le Guin Research Paper Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's always good to hear from another ULG fan. I can't think of anything you don't already know in the way of a web site or search engine, except possibly trying a newspapers in her home town -- you might get something interesting from an editor. A clue: say you are "doing research." I'm a college professor, and I must warn you. Typically, if you say it's for a class paper, your inquiry will not get a response. But good luck, and let me know how your search goes. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mollie To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 9:08 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Ursula K. Le Guin Research Paper Hi everyone- I just found out that I'm going to be doing a research paper on Ursula K. Le Guin for my Acc. English class and I was wondering if anyone knew about some good websites, books, etc. I can use. Thanks very much! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jun 04 07:49:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.84]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 02:02:23 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1045-1086339743-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2004 09:02:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 94952 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2004 09:02:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2004 09:02:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2004 09:02:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: abilityenemy@yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.172] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2004 09:01:10 -0000 X-Sender: abilityenemy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27073 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2004 06:58:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2004 06:58:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2004 06:58:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.175] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2004 06:57:42 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.106 From: "m. koray senturk" X-Originating-IP: 195.142.54.243 X-Yahoo-Profile: abilityenemy X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 04 Jun 2004 09:01:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 06:57:41 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] heartshapedbox Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi.two years ago some novelists and poets (Salman Rusdi, Milan Kundera, John le Carre, John irving, Nadine Gordimer, Carlos Fuentes and Norman Mailer..etc) decided to choose the books that is important for them..i wanted to send you the list of it..if i were them i'll add some books of leguin too..take care group.. Wednesday May 8, 2002 Chinua Achebe, Nigeria, (b. 1930), Things Fall Apart Hans Christian Andersen, Denmark, (1805-1875), Fairy Tales and Stories Jane Austen, England, (1775-1817), Pride and Prejudice Honore de Balzac, France, (1799-1850), Old Goriot Samuel Beckett, Ireland, (1906-1989), Trilogy: Molloy, Malone Dies, The Unnamable Giovanni Boccaccio, Italy, (1313-1375), Decameron Jorge Luis Borges, Argentina, (1899-1986), Collected Fictions Emily Bronte, England, (1818-1848), Wuthering Heights Albert Camus, France, (1913-1960), The Stranger Paul Celan, Romania/France, (1920-1970), Poems. Louis-Ferdinand Celine, France, (1894-1961), Journey to the End of the Night Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Spain, (1547-1616), Don Quixote Geoffrey Chaucer, England, (1340-1400), Canterbury Tales Joseph Conrad, England,(1857-1924), Nostromo Dante Alighieri, Italy, (1265-1321), The Divine Comedy Charles Dickens, England, (1812-1870), Great Expectations Denis Diderot, France, (1713-1784), Jacques the Fatalist and His Master Alfred Doblin, Germany, (1878-1957), Berlin Alexanderplatz Fyodor M Dostoyevsky, Russia, (1821-1881), Crime and Punishment; The Idiot; The Possessed; The Brothers Karamazov George Eliot, England, (1819-1880), Middlemarch Ralph Ellison, United States, (1914-1994), Invisible Man Euripides, Greece, (c 480-406 BC), Medea William Faulkner, United States, (1897-1962), Absalom, Absalom; The Sound and the Fury Gustave Flaubert, France, (1821-1880), Madame Bovary; A Sentimental Education Federico Garcia Lorca, Spain, (1898-1936), Gypsy Ballads Gabriel Garcia Marquez. Colombia, (b. 1928), One Hundred Years of Solitude; Love in the Time of Cholera Gilgamesh, Mesopotamia (c 1800 BC). Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Germany, (1749-1832), Faust Nikolai Gogol, Russia, (1809-1852), Dead Souls Gunter Grass, Germany, (b.1927), The Tin Drum Joao Guimaraes Rosa, Brazil, (1880-1967), The Devil to Pay in the Backlands Knut Hamsun, Norway, (1859-1952), Hunger. Ernest Hemingway, United States, (1899-1961), The Old Man and the Sea Homer, Greece, (c 700 BC), The Iliad and The Odyssey Henrik Ibsen, Norway (1828-1906), A Doll's House The Book of Job, Israel. (600-400 BC). James Joyce, Ireland, (1882-1941), Ulysses Franz Kafka, Bohemia, (1883-1924), The Complete Stories; The Trial; The Castle Bohemia Kalidasa, India, (c. 400), The Recognition of Sakuntala Yasunari Kawabata, Japan, (1899-1972), The Sound of the Mountain Nikos Kazantzakis, Greece, (1883-1957), Zorba the Greek DH Lawrence, England, (1885-1930), Sons and Lovers Halldor K Laxness, Iceland, (1902-1998), Independent People Giacomo Leopardi, Italy, (1798-1837), Complete Poems Doris Lessing, England, (b.1919), The Golden Notebook Astrid Lindgren, Sweden, (1907-2002), Pippi Longstocking Lu Xun, China, (1881-1936), Diary of a Madman and Other Stories Mahabharata, India, (c 500 BC). Naguib Mahfouz, Egypt, (b. 1911), Children of Gebelawi Thomas Mann, Germany, (1875-1955), Buddenbrook; The Magic Mountain Herman Melville, United States, (1819-1891), Moby Dick Michel de Montaigne, France, (1533-1592), Essays. Elsa Morante, Italy, (1918-1985), History Toni Morrison, United States, (b. 1931), Beloved Shikibu Murasaki, Japan, (N/A), The Tale of Genji Genji Robert Musil, Austria, (1880-1942), The Man Without Qualities Vladimir Nabokov, Russia/United States, (1899-1977), Lolita Njaals Saga, Iceland, (c 1300). George Orwell, England, (1903-1950), 1984 Ovid, Italy, (c 43 BC), Metamorphoses Fernando Pessoa, Portugal, (1888-1935), The Book of Disquiet Edgar Allan Poe, United States, (1809-1849), The Complete Tales Marcel Proust, France, (1871-1922), Remembrance of Things Past Francois Rabelais, France, (1495-1553), Gargantua and Pantagruel Juan Rulfo, Mexico, (1918-1986), Pedro Paramo Jalal ad-din Rumi, Iran, (1207-1273), Mathnawi Salman Rushdie, India/Britain, (b. 1947), Midnight's Children Sheikh Musharrif ud-din Sadi, Iran, (c 1200-1292), The Orchard Tayeb Salih, Sudan, (b. 1929), Season of Migration to the North Jose Saramago, Portugal, (b. 1922), Blindness William Shakespeare, England, (1564-1616), Hamlet; King Lear; Othello Sophocles, Greece, (496-406 BC), Oedipus the King Stendhal, France, (1783-1842), The Red and the Black Laurence Sterne, Ireland, (1713-1768), The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy Italo Svevo, Italy, (1861-1928), Confessions of Zeno Jonathan Swift, Ireland, (1667-1745), Gulliver's Travels Leo Tolstoy, Russia, (1828-1910), War and Peace; Anna Karenina; The Death of Ivan Ilyich and Other Stories Anton P Chekhov, Russia, (1860-1904), Selected Stories Thousand and One Nights, India/Iran/Iraq/Egypt, (700-1500). Mark Twain, United States, (1835-1910), The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn Valmiki, India, (c 300 BC), Ramayana Virgil, Italy, (70-19 BC), The Aeneid Walt Whitman, United States, (1819-1892), Leaves of Grass Virginia Woolf, England, (1882-1941), Mrs. Dalloway; To the Lighthouse Marguerite Yourcenar, France, (1903-1987), Memoirs of Hadrian ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jun 07 07:58:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.93]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 01:18:51 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1046-1086596330-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.156] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2004 08:18:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 83470 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2004 08:18:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2004 08:18:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.103) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2004 08:18:49 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jodemior2000@yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.163] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2004 08:14:07 -0000 X-Sender: jodemior2000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56441 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2004 05:05:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2004 05:05:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.71) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2004 05:05:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.164] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2004 05:05:02 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.71 From: "John M" X-Originating-IP: 159.121.192.62 X-Yahoo-Profile: jodemior2000 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 07 Jun 2004 08:14:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.103 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 05:04:32 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Hello Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good Evening All- I was mumzing around looking at groups dedicated to various authors and found you all, how fine to find a group dedicated to one of my most favorite authors. I have been a fan of ULK's for many, many years and would love to have the chance to talk about her and her work with other fans. Thanks for letting me join, I hope I can learn more about ULK from the threads and perhaps contribute a little to them once in awhile. -John from Oregon ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jun 13 15:52:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.108]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 14:30:40 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1047-1087162241-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.31] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2004 21:30:42 -0000 X-Sender: schwelle@libero.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92730 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2004 21:30:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2004 21:30:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.libero.it) (193.70.192.52) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jun 2004 21:30:40 -0000 Received: from libero.it (172.16.1.90) by smtp2.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 40C73470000B4111 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:29:11 +0200 Message-Id: X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "the-ekumen" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B27) X-type: 0 X-SenderIP: 81.208.60.200 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.70.192.52 From: "schwelle\@libero\.it" X-Yahoo-Profile: nonchiederci MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:28:53 +0200 Subject: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 396 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "John M" > Subject: Hello > > Good Evening All- > > I was mumzing around looking at groups dedicated to various authors > and found you all, how fine to find a group dedicated to one of my > most favorite authors. I have been a fan of ULK's for many, many > years and would love to have the chance to talk about her and her > work with other fans. > > Thanks for letting me join, I hope I can learn more about ULK from > the threads and perhaps contribute a little to them once in awhile. > > -John from Oregon Welcome in this forum, John! Hope to read from you Paola ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jun 13 18:22:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.67]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:02:58 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1048-1087174980-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2004 01:03:00 -0000 X-Sender: jodemior2000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9934 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2004 01:02:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2004 01:02:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2004 01:02:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.157] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2004 01:01:51 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.64 From: "John M" X-Originating-IP: 159.121.192.62 X-Yahoo-Profile: jodemior2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 01:01:51 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Thanks Paola Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Paola- Thanks for the reply to my post, I appreciate you taking the time to say hi. I hope to get a chance to post to the list and be an active member. Right now I've been cruising through some of the past threads just trying to see what sort of things get discussed and so on. Have a nice evening. -John from Oregon ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jun 27 09:01:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.108]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 04:08:40 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1049-1088334507-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2004 11:08:29 -0000 X-Sender: mayaward@yahoo.com.au X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55042 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2004 11:08:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jun 2004 11:08:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web21106.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.227.108) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2004 11:08:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20040627110821.30432.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.122.139.54] by web21106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 21:08:21 EST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.227.108 From: maya ward X-Yahoo-Profile: mayaward MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 21:08:21 +1000 (EST) Subject: [the-ekumen] woman being brave Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Dear Friends I have been very influenced by Ursulas writings for many years, my favourite book being Always Coming Home out of the 20 or so that I have read (and just recently I love the story Solitude in the Birthday of the World). But I have just indulged in the luxury and privilege of reading many new ones and old ones in my own private Le Guin festival, and I emerge happy, tearful yet healed, and very moved by the power of her teaching. It is an audience with a magnificent elder there is no one else like her in my life and my gratitude towards her is like the golden light of the evening as it pours over the mountains and through the village streets. (she loves that time of day, doesnt she?). I have been reading the ekumen emails that land in my in-box over the years, yet I have never contributed whether from shyness or laziness I am not sure. But if I live by Ursulas teaching I would like to do better than that, and reach out to you my invisible companions. I have questions for you; replies would be treasured. And I have a little gift to you a story. It is truthful, and magical. My story is my reply to the question I would ask of you; does Ursulas work influence your life in the world? Or; how do you change the world (or the world inside you) through the moral, aesthetic, poetic possibilities revealed to you in encountering her work? How does her fiction change the world? My story goes something like this: Last year I went on a journey, to places I thought I would never know. I became a pilgrim; walking for three weeks, all the way along the river of the land where I was born and have always lived. I followed the length of the Yarra, I followed every bend of what once was known as Birrarung, the river of mists, from the sea, through the vast and sprawling city, to the distant mountains, to the source. We walked every day along a songline of southern Australia, a sacred, ancient Aboriginal pathway, to which the songs are lost, as the Wurundjeri tribe were almost all killed (one way or another) in the early years of white settlement. One woman out of the once hundreds of Wurundjeri had children that survived, and a descendant of this woman was there at the launch of the Long Yarra Walk, as the winds whipped up the bay. She asked that the spirits of the ancestors walk with us. I didnt know what this meant, but I knew it was a priceless gift. We lobbied and liaised for about a year to gain permission to walk all the way along the river (as it is mostly in private hands), and we were successful, except for one significant place. We thought that even there we would eventually win them over through the magic of our pilgrimage, but walking in wartime as we did (April 2003), the Upper Yarra Dam, the main water supply for Melbourne, was seen as a terrorist target, and we were denied access at the last moment. So we did what we swore we would not do, we got in a car and drove around the valley, to access the headwaters from the other side, by going from the top down. I was devastated as we sat in the car, thinking that I had betrayed the spirit of the journey. But then, after we got the top of the icy mountains, and we pilgrims had been warmed and welcomed by strangers, something happened to change that assumption, when my friend brought out her copy of Always Coming Home. This book by Ursula Le Guin is about a reinhabitory society; set in the future, it depicts a people who know themselves through their place (the Na Valley) and all the inhabitants (birds, animals, trees, stones, mountains, weather) it is my very favourite book, and my guide in how to live in hope and beauty. I was keen to read to my companions the special excerpts that meant so much to me, stories that were the inspiration for the journey we were now on. And so I opened it up, from the back as it happened. And there I found a poem that I had somehow unaccountably missed in the last decade of reading this book continuously and voraciously: DAY NINETEEN Stammersong >From the library at Wakwaha I have a different way, I have a different will, I have a different word to say. I am coming back by the road around the side, by the outside way, from the other direction. There is a valley, there are no hills around it. There is a river, it has no banks. There are people, they have no bodies, dancing by the river in the valley. I have drunk the water of that river. I am drunk my life long, my tongue is thick, and when I dance I stumble and fall over. When I die I will come back by the outside road And drink the water of this river, and be sober. There is a valley, high hills around it. There is a river, willows on its shores. There are people, their feet are beautiful, dancing by the river in the valley. I copied the poem into my diary, and then I wrote this: I have died to any sort of knowing other than faith, trust and openness. I CANNOT believe this latest gift. To find this poem in Always Coming Home, at the end of the book, just THERE I know that book back to front, or so I thought yet I have never seen this poem! How could that be? And how could my favourite book contain a poem that exactly described our situation I am coming back by the outside way, from the other direction. My body sung and span in response to these words. Here we are on top of Baw Baw, we came by the outside way, from the other direction out of the catchment then to here, back in. The journey here from Reefton was so painful much harder than I imagined. I thought of the ancestors, left behind there as we sped off in a car. I felt I had betrayed them that they were the true victims of Melbourne Waters prohibition. And I was wondering how to learn from that part of ourselves that is in the form of big government fear, control, appropriation, blindness and disenchantment. How could I mourn, learn to acknowledge the shadow, and integrate the story once again losing the innocence, the perhaps self-centredness of the nave happy pilgrim to become richer, wiser, more compassionate because more aware. Truly to bear witness, bear witness. So then the poem. I read it to Kate and Cinnamon. We look at the book in wonder. Hope others dont mind that I used the poem like that; of course it has endless meaning, and I see that and love that. The pilgrimage was 22 profound days of grace, I found a sacred way through the heart of a modern city, inspired by the journeys of the Finders and other characters in Always Coming Home. It was entering another reality, one that I had been waiting for all my life, and I heard the world singing. I know that the Songline is not destroyed forever, but that we have a responsibility to remake the world through our engagement with it, through our recognition of the inherent magical reality, and through the truth of story. I have glimpsed briefly a way perhaps not dissimilar from the world known in The Telling, and I wonder how I can share this story, to help a culture of sustainable, sacred ways. So that my place, the land I live within, is precious in the hearts of the inhabitants and I need not escape into books to find a world that is real. Does anyone know what I mean? With respect for difference, and hope for communion and for the truth of the earth Maya John M wrote:Good Evening All- I was mumzing around looking at groups dedicated to various authors and found you all, how fine to find a group dedicated to one of my most favorite authors. I have been a fan of ULK's for many, many years and would love to have the chance to talk about her and her work with other fans. Thanks for letting me join, I hope I can learn more about ULK from the threads and perhaps contribute a little to them once in awhile. -John from Oregon Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jun 27 12:29:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.83]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 08:59:26 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1050-1088351966-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.160] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2004 15:59:26 -0000 X-Sender: RachelBOsb@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 111 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2004 15:59:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jun 2004 15:59:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m16.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.206) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2004 15:59:23 -0000 Received: from RachelBOsb@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.1d7.24b6101f (4459) for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 11:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1d7.24b6101f.2e1048d7@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.206 From: RachelBOsb@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: rachelbosb MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 11:59:19 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 398 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maya, thank-you so much for that wonderful story. I've always felt that stories, fiction are what have really taught me to live that they make my life immeasurably more meaningful and I loved hearing about your experience. Of course, it would be Ursula, our golden elder, who got you through. Rachel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jun 27 12:29:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.89]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 09:48:56 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1051-1088354875-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2004 16:48:54 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17027 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2004 16:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jun 2004 16:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.48) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2004 16:47:54 -0000 Received: from user-uinj8vp.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.163.249] helo=computer) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BecoU-0003LG-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 09:47:31 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.20040627093006.009d9960@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20040627110821.30432.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> References: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.48 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 09:48:46 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] woman being brave Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think Maya's story demonstrates, more literally than most such stories, that _Always Coming Home_ is one of those books that gets bigger the more you delve into it. That's a sign of literary greatness. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jun 27 12:29:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.99]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 11:17:05 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1052-1088360226-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.27] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2004 18:17:06 -0000 X-Sender: janehyde@buncombe.main.nc.us X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90574 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2004 18:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jun 2004 18:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buncombe.main.nc.us) (209.192.109.136) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2004 18:17:05 -0000 Received: from v8h2n3 (tchub04.henderson.main.nc.us [209.192.109.44]) by buncombe.main.nc.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA07503 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 14:14:48 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c45c7c$6e8dbfa0$2c6dc0d1@v8h2n3> To: References: <20040627110821.30432.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.192.109.136 From: "Jane Hyde" X-Yahoo-Profile: jane3ncri MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 15:24:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] woman being brave Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maya, wow -- thank you so much for your story, to inspire me on a grey Sunday. And maybe it's time to go back to Always Coming Home, one of my touchstone books (The Telling was too, though not quite as grandly). I've got time to myself this summer (as a teacher) and have been dabbling about here and there in books, reading this and that, and wondering what passionate reading will claim me for the summer. I think I'll go back to the valley of the Na and be refreshed. Thanks so much for your message. Maybe it will inspire others to contribute., -- Jane P.S. Current book, and a magical one too, is Ondaatje's Anil's Ghost. I recommend it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jun 27 22:52:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.77]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 16:01:43 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1053-1088377305-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2004 23:01:45 -0000 X-Sender: jodemior2000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98068 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2004 23:01:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jun 2004 23:01:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.74) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2004 23:01:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.147] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2004 23:01:42 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040627110821.30432.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.74 From: "John M" X-Originating-IP: 159.121.192.62 X-Yahoo-Profile: jodemior2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:01:40 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: woman being brave Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Hi Maya- I'm very new to this group and other than a brief introduction, this is my first "real" post. I would just like to say thank you for posting this, Maya. Always Coming Home is a favorite of mine, although to say this is almost a meaningless statement, whichever book of hers I happen to be reading at the time is usually my favorite, so I guess they're all my favorites. Right now I'm reading The Birthday of the World, being almost done with it, I was going to read The Other Wind but inspired by your post I think I will take up Always Coming Home, again. It's been many years since I last read it, I think it must be time again to get in touch with that world. Australia must be such a beautiful land, with its long spiritual history, its origin in the Dream Time, and the belief that it still informs the land. Thank you for telling us about your trek through a portion of it. -John from Oregon --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, maya ward wrote: > > Dear Friends > > I have been very influenced by Ursula's writings for many years, my favourite book being Always Coming Home out of the 20 or so that I have read (and just recently I love the story Solitude in the Birthday of the World). But I have just indulged in the luxury and privilege of reading many new ones and old ones in my own private Le Guin festival, and I emerge happy, tearful yet healed, and very moved by the power of her teaching. It is an audience with a magnificent elder there is no one else like her in my life and my gratitude towards her is like the golden light of the evening as it pours over the mountains and through the village streets. (she loves that time of day, doesn't she?). I have been reading the ekumen emails that land in my in-box over the years, yet I have never contributed whether from shyness or laziness I am not sure. But if I live by Ursula's teaching I would like to do better than that, and reach out to you my invisible companions. I have questions for you; > replies would be treasured. And I have a little gift to you a story. It is truthful, and magical. My story is my reply to the question I would ask of you; does Ursula's work influence your life in the world? Or; how do you change the world (or the world inside you) through the moral, aesthetic, poetic possibilities revealed to you in encountering her work? How does her `fiction' change the world? > > My story goes something like this: > > Last year I went on a journey, to places I thought I would never know. I became a pilgrim; walking for three weeks, all the way along the river of the land where I was born and have always lived. I followed the length of the Yarra, I followed every bend of what once was known as Birrarung, the river of mists, from the sea, through the vast and sprawling city, to the distant mountains, to the source. We walked every day along a songline of southern Australia, a sacred, ancient Aboriginal pathway, to which the songs are lost, as the Wurundjeri tribe were almost all killed (one way or another) in the early years of white settlement. One woman out of the once hundreds of Wurundjeri had children that survived, and a descendant of this woman was there at the launch of the Long Yarra Walk, as the winds whipped up the bay. She asked that the spirits of the ancestors walk with us. I didn't know what this meant, but I knew it was a priceless gift. > > We lobbied and liaised for about a year to gain permission to walk all the way along the river (as it is mostly in private hands), and we were successful, except for one significant place. We thought that even there we would eventually win them over through the magic of our pilgrimage, but walking in wartime as we did (April 2003), the Upper Yarra Dam, the main water supply for Melbourne, was seen as a terrorist target, and we were denied access at the last moment. So we did what we swore we would not do, we got in a car and drove around the valley, to access the headwaters from the other side, by going from the top down. I was devastated as we sat in the car, thinking that I had betrayed the spirit of the journey. But then, after we got the top of the icy mountains, and we pilgrims had been warmed and welcomed by strangers, something happened to change that assumption, when my friend brought out her copy of Always Coming Home. This book by Ursula Le Guin is about a `reinhabitory' > society; set in the future, it depicts a people who know themselves through their place (the Na Valley) and all the inhabitants (birds, animals, trees, stones, mountains, weather) it is my very favourite book, and my guide in how to live in hope and beauty. I was keen to read to my companions the special excerpts that meant so much to me, stories that were the inspiration for the journey we were now on. And so I opened it up, from the back as it happened. And there I found a poem that I had somehow unaccountably missed in the last decade of reading this book continuously and voraciously: > > DAY NINETEEN > Stammersong > From the library at Wakwaha > > > > I have a different way, I have a different will, > > I have a different word to say. > > I am coming back by the road around the side, > > by the outside way, from the other direction. > > > > There is a valley, there are no hills around it. > > There is a river, it has no banks. > > There are people, they have no bodies, > > dancing by the river in the valley. > > > > I have drunk the water of that river. > > I am drunk my life long, my tongue is thick, > > and when I dance I stumble and fall over. > > When I die I will come back by the outside road > > And drink the water of this river, and be sober. > > > > There is a valley, high hills around it. > > There is a river, willows on its shores. > > There are people, their feet are beautiful, > > dancing by the river in the valley. > > > > I copied the poem into my diary, and then I wrote this: > > > > `I have died to any sort of knowing other than faith, trust and openness. I CANNOT believe this latest gift. To find this poem in Always Coming Home, at the end of the book, just THERE I know that book back to front, or so I thought yet I have never seen this poem! How could that be? And how could my favourite book contain a poem that exactly described our situation `I am coming back by the outside way, from the other direction'. My body sung and span in response to these words. Here we are on top of Baw Baw, we came by the outside way, from the other direction out of the catchment then to here, back in. The journey here from Reefton was so painful much harder than I imagined. I thought of the ancestors, left behind there as we sped off in a car. I felt I had betrayed them that they were the true victims of Melbourne Water's prohibition. And I was wondering how to learn from that part of ourselves that is in the form of big government fear, control, appropriation, > blindness and disenchantment. How could I mourn, learn to acknowledge the shadow, and integrate the story once again losing the innocence, the perhaps self-centredness of the nave happy pilgrim to become richer, wiser, more compassionate because more aware. Truly to bear witness, bear witness. So then the poem. I read it to Kate and Cinnamon. We look at the book in wonder.' > > Hope others don't mind that I `used' the poem like that; of course it has endless meaning, and I see that and love that. The pilgrimage was 22 profound days of grace, I found a sacred way through the heart of a modern city, inspired by the journeys of the Finders and other characters in Always Coming Home. It was entering another reality, one that I had been waiting for all my life, and I heard the world singing. I know that the Songline is not destroyed forever, but that we have a responsibility to remake the world through our engagement with it, through our recognition of the inherent magical reality, and through the truth of story. I have glimpsed briefly a way perhaps not dissimilar from the world known in The Telling, and I wonder how I can share this story, to help a culture of sustainable, sacred ways. So that my place, the land I live within, is precious in the hearts of the inhabitants and I need not escape into books to find a world that is real. Does anyone know what I > mean? > With respect for difference, and hope for communion and for the truth of the earth Maya > > John M wrote:Good Evening All- > > I was mumzing around looking at groups dedicated to various authors > and found you all, how fine to find a group dedicated to one of my > most favorite authors. I have been a fan of ULK's for many, many > years and would love to have the chance to talk about her and her > work with other fans. > > Thanks for letting me join, I hope I can learn more about ULK from > the threads and perhaps contribute a little to them once in awhile. > > -John from Oregon > > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jun 28 08:42:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n46.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.67.23]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:07:15 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1054-1088402838-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jun 2004 06:07:18 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56852 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2004 06:07:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jun 2004 06:07:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jun 2004 06:07:14 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.e4.519a84aa (4362) for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 02:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6108 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.139.137 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 02:07:08 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 398 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear Friends, Thank you Maya, for your lovely story. I'll try to answer your question: does Ursula’s work influence your life in the world? Or; how do you change the world (or the world inside you) through the moral, aesthetic, poetic possibilities revealed to you in encountering her work? How does her ‘fiction’ change the world? I think my life is influenced almost everyday, in the decisions I make, by a very quiet, discreet voice that is derived, at least partly, from the voice of her narrators. It's a wise, tolerant voice, yet it can be very inflexible about some things, such as hurting others. And I don't always listen to it, or live up to its high standards. Yet it's there and when I do find a way "by the road around the side, by the outside way, from the other direction" that allows me to satisfy its requirements while progressing towards a goal, I feel rather pleased with myself. I may not always achieve my goals, but I have the feeling that I did the right thing. How do you change the world? By changing yourself. How does her fiction change the world? Through people like us who have been changed by reading her fiction. Thank you once more, Maya, for your thoughts and your question. I'm looking forward to seeing what other people on this list will reply. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jun 28 08:44:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n41.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.67.16]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 01:07:33 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1055-1088410053-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.30] by n41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jun 2004 08:07:33 -0000 X-Sender: meelisr@ut.ee X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48267 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2004 08:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jun 2004 08:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO raud.ut.ee) (193.40.15.176) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jun 2004 08:07:32 -0000 Received: from localhost (meelisr@localhost) by raud.ut.ee (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id i5S87PS13390 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:07:25 +0300 (EEST) X-Authentication-Warning: raud.ut.ee: meelisr owned process doing -bs X-X-Sender: meelisr@raud To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.40.15.176 From: Meelis Rohtla X-Yahoo-Profile: televizor222000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:07:25 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 398 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi, i wonder who can define influence ? who can measure its use ? when i say UKLs writing has influenced me, then it mught be true, but it's a truth about me, not about her, and meaningful to me only. i might of course enlarge the influence to the whole world and sound 'almost convincing' but that's another empty and arrogant truth. what matters is getting to know an artist through her art, a personality through her thought. that goes two ways. it's hard to say what i like most in UKLs stories. reading, listening to a story quietly and patiently, is always a pleasure. so perhaps it's the stories she has enjoyed writing most that are the most satisfying. they are vulnerable (like most feminine writing) and there are tiny flaws which make the story stronger, show the writer as a human being, as a whole. the ones like 'coming of age in karhide', 'the other wind', 'a man of the people', 'dispossessed' maybe. thanks sorry if i offended anybody meelis ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jun 29 07:54:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.81]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 29 Jun 2004 03:27:13 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1056-1088504827-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.29] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2004 10:27:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 59288 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2004 10:27:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jun 2004 10:27:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.93) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jun 2004 10:27:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt Received: from [66.218.66.112] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2004 10:27:06 -0000 X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17740 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2004 08:54:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jun 2004 08:54:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.netcabo.pt) (212.113.174.9) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jun 2004 08:54:43 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([81.84.172.109]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 29 Jun 2004 09:53:37 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040627110821.30432.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jun 2004 08:53:37.0397 (UTC) FILETIME=[91281250:01C45DB6] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.9 From: rowcliffe X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 29 Jun 2004 10:27:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.93 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 09:50:55 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] woman being brave Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Dear Maya and other readers This, too, is my first contribution. Unlike you I have only just started reading Ursula's words but recognise their depth and vision. I was looking for an antidote to the nihilistic, mono-culture that has all but taken over our world and I haven't been disappointed so far. Amongst other things I teach English to second year University students in Portugal who, like so many other people, face a world of work that seems to offer them very little. Traditionally, they would have become teachers but, with the strong European/American world view that is being projected, few children are being born and the schools have progressively fewer pupils and, hence, need even fewer teachers. So we are asking ourselves, how can we find other meaningful ways to live and make a living. I thought The Telling, which I have only just started reading and researching, would make an interesting point of departure. (Another possibility might be Changing Planes but, personally, I don't find it as compelling as a single, longer story.) Like you, Maya, therefore, I hope the process won't be one of escapism but a re-appreciation of the wonderful possibilities around us and a heightened awareness of the 'rat traps' we are being led towards. Talking of which - I have to go. Thanks for your story, comments and questions. Ian (in Portugal) on 6/27/04 11:08 AM, maya ward at mayaward@yahoo.com.au wrote: > > Dear Friends > > I have been very influenced by Ursulas writings for many years, my favourite > book being Always Coming Home out of the 20 or so that I have read (and just > recently I love the story Solitude in the Birthday of the World). But I have > just indulged in the luxury and privilege of reading many new ones and old > ones in my own private Le Guin festival, and I emerge happy, tearful yet > healed, and very moved by the power of her teaching. It is an audience with a > magnificent elder there is no one else like her in my life and my gratitude > towards her is like the golden light of the evening as it pours over the > mountains and through the village streets. (she loves that time of day, > doesnt she?). I have been reading the ekumen emails that land in my in-box > over the years, yet I have never contributed whether from shyness or > laziness I am not sure. But if I live by Ursulas teaching I would like to do > better than that, and reach out to you my invisible companions. I have > questions for you; > replies would be treasured. And I have a little gift to you a story. It is > truthful, and magical. My story is my reply to the question I would ask of > you; does Ursulas work influence your life in the world? Or; how do you > change the world (or the world inside you) through the moral, aesthetic, > poetic possibilities revealed to you in encountering her work? How does her > fiction change the world? > > My story goes something like this: > > Last year I went on a journey, to places I thought I would never know. I > became a pilgrim; walking for three weeks, all the way along the river of the > land where I was born and have always lived. I followed the length of the > Yarra, I followed every bend of what once was known as Birrarung, the river of > mists, from the sea, through the vast and sprawling city, to the distant > mountains, to the source. We walked every day along a songline of southern > Australia, a sacred, ancient Aboriginal pathway, to which the songs are lost, > as the Wurundjeri tribe were almost all killed (one way or another) in the > early years of white settlement. One woman out of the once hundreds of > Wurundjeri had children that survived, and a descendant of this woman was > there at the launch of the Long Yarra Walk, as the winds whipped up the bay. > She asked that the spirits of the ancestors walk with us. I didnt know what > this meant, but I knew it was a priceless gift. > > We lobbied and liaised for about a year to gain permission to walk all the way > along the river (as it is mostly in private hands), and we were successful, > except for one significant place. We thought that even there we would > eventually win them over through the magic of our pilgrimage, but walking in > wartime as we did (April 2003), the Upper Yarra Dam, the main water supply for > Melbourne, was seen as a terrorist target, and we were denied access at the > last moment. So we did what we swore we would not do, we got in a car and > drove around the valley, to access the headwaters from the other side, by > going from the top down. I was devastated as we sat in the car, thinking that > I had betrayed the spirit of the journey. But then, after we got the top of > the icy mountains, and we pilgrims had been warmed and welcomed by strangers, > something happened to change that assumption, when my friend brought out her > copy of Always Coming Home. This book by Ursula Le Guin is about a > reinhabitory > society; set in the future, it depicts a people who know themselves through > their place (the Na Valley) and all the inhabitants (birds, animals, trees, > stones, mountains, weather) it is my very favourite book, and my guide in > how to live in hope and beauty. I was keen to read to my companions the > special excerpts that meant so much to me, stories that were the inspiration > for the journey we were now on. And so I opened it up, from the back as it > happened. And there I found a poem that I had somehow unaccountably missed > in the last decade of reading this book continuously and voraciously: > > DAY NINETEEN > Stammersong > From the library at Wakwaha > > > > I have a different way, I have a different will, > > I have a different word to say. > > I am coming back by the road around the side, > > by the outside way, from the other direction. > > > > There is a valley, there are no hills around it. > > There is a river, it has no banks. > > There are people, they have no bodies, > > dancing by the river in the valley. > > > > I have drunk the water of that river. > > I am drunk my life long, my tongue is thick, > > and when I dance I stumble and fall over. > > When I die I will come back by the outside road > > And drink the water of this river, and be sober. > > > > There is a valley, high hills around it. > > There is a river, willows on its shores. > > There are people, their feet are beautiful, > > dancing by the river in the valley. > > > > I copied the poem into my diary, and then I wrote this: > > > > I have died to any sort of knowing other than faith, trust and openness. I > CANNOT believe this latest gift. To find this poem in Always Coming Home, at > the end of the book, just THERE I know that book back to front, or so I > thought yet I have never seen this poem! How could that be? And how could my > favourite book contain a poem that exactly described our situation I am > coming back by the outside way, from the other direction. My body sung and > span in response to these words. Here we are on top of Baw Baw, we came by the > outside way, from the other direction out of the catchment then to here, > back in. The journey here from Reefton was so painful much harder than I > imagined. I thought of the ancestors, left behind there as we sped off in a > car. I felt I had betrayed them that they were the true victims of Melbourne > Waters prohibition. And I was wondering how to learn from that part of > ourselves that is in the form of big government fear, control, > appropriation, > blindness and disenchantment. How could I mourn, learn to acknowledge the > shadow, and integrate the story once again losing the innocence, the perhaps > self-centredness of the nave happy pilgrim to become richer, wiser, more > compassionate because more aware. Truly to bear witness, bear witness. So then > the poem. I read it to Kate and Cinnamon. We look at the book in wonder. > > Hope others dont mind that I used the poem like that; of course it has > endless meaning, and I see that and love that. The pilgrimage was 22 profound > days of grace, I found a sacred way through the heart of a modern city, > inspired by the journeys of the Finders and other characters in Always Coming > Home. It was entering another reality, one that I had been waiting for all my > life, and I heard the world singing. I know that the Songline is not destroyed > forever, but that we have a responsibility to remake the world through our > engagement with it, through our recognition of the inherent magical reality, > and through the truth of story. I have glimpsed briefly a way perhaps not > dissimilar from the world known in The Telling, and I wonder how I can share > this story, to help a culture of sustainable, sacred ways. So that my place, > the land I live within, is precious in the hearts of the inhabitants and I > need not escape into books to find a world that is real. Does anyone know what > I > mean? > With respect for difference, and hope for communion and for the truth of the > earth Maya > > John M wrote:Good Evening All- > > I was mumzing around looking at groups dedicated to various authors > and found you all, how fine to find a group dedicated to one of my > most favorite authors. I have been a fan of ULK's for many, many > years and would love to have the chance to talk about her and her > work with other fans. > > Thanks for letting me join, I hope I can learn more about ULK from > the threads and perhaps contribute a little to them once in awhile. > > -John from Oregon > > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jun 29 07:54:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n43.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.67.18]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 29 Jun 2004 04:08:36 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1057-1088507314-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.157] by n43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2004 11:08:35 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34309 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2004 11:08:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jun 2004 11:08:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay2.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.142) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jun 2004 11:08:32 -0000 Received: from du-040-0021.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.21] helo=oemcomputer) by relay2.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BfGTV-0006mp-CK for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Jun 2004 12:08:31 +0100 Message-ID: <005801c45dc9$e7ddd0e0$a6749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.142 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 12:12:02 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] woman being brave Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit All How lovely to suddenly see 8 posts in my ekumen folder. Thank you Maya for starting us going and for sharing your amazing story. Always Coming Home is good, but not personally one of my top UKL books. The part of the story that struck me most about it last time I reread it was the futility of pouring money and potential food into building the metal birds that did not work and the refusal to acknowledge reality as the society collapsed. Don't get me wrong I am not criticising the book, but it does not rise up to the standard of most of UKL's work which sets me alight and recocniles me with the world. Obviously from previous correspondence there is a very personal way in which we all react to UKL and that is fine! praise god for diversity! Over the last 33 years UKL has acted as a major healer for me when life throws me problems so can relate very much to your story Maya although none of my problems have been I think as poetic/profound as the one you describe. And how great to find friends who could share rather than using the books as a solitary help. On Changing Planes I have to admit to a failure. My husband bought it for my birthday. The cover made many references to spoof so I approached it thinking - so how am I supposed to read this? Only when I got to the story that was clearly spoofing the reaction to the death of Princess Diana did I realise there must be alot I'm missing and discouraged put it aside. Can anyone help with interpretation? I have also been thinking of sharing with you all the reference I heard to UKL when I had the chance to spend a couple of days at the Hay on Wye literary festival a few weeks ago (http://www.hayfestival.com/2004/). I attended a session with 3 children's fantasy writers called Fisher, Sedgwick & Stroud. UKL got 2 mentions. The first was Catherine Fisher's enthusiastic reference to the Wizard of Earthsea's wizard school long before Harry Potter was thought of. The second was a caveat to a somewhat questionable statment that children's fantasy was much better written than adult fantasy. UKL was acknowledged as an exception but I thought they were far too sweeping in dismissing the rest of the genre! I love reading good children's fantasy but think UKL has a number of - what's a better word than competitors? - fellow writers although it would take a lot to take her away from the top of the pile to me. Again I'm using competitive language - sorry! Looking forward to reading more from you all Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "rowcliffe" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] woman being brave Dear Maya and other readers This, too, is my first contribution. Unlike you I have only just started reading Ursula's words but recognise their depth and vision. I was looking for an antidote to the nihilistic, mono-culture that has all but taken over our world and I haven't been disappointed so far. Amongst other things I teach English to second year University students in Portugal who, like so many other people, face a world of work that seems to offer them very little. Traditionally, they would have become teachers but, with the strong European/American world view that is being projected, few children are being born and the schools have progressively fewer pupils and, hence, need even fewer teachers. So we are asking ourselves, how can we find other meaningful ways to live and make a living. I thought The Telling, which I have only just started reading and researching, would make an interesting point of departure. (Another possibility might be Changing Planes but, personally, I don't find it as compelling as a single, longer story.) Like you, Maya, therefore, I hope the process won't be one of escapism but a re-appreciation of the wonderful possibilities around us and a heightened awareness of the 'rat traps' we are being led towards. Talking of which - I have to go. Thanks for your story, comments and questions. Ian (in Portugal) on 6/27/04 11:08 AM, maya ward at mayaward@yahoo.com.au wrote: > > Dear Friends > > I have been very influenced by Ursula's writings for many years, my favourite > book being Always Coming Home out of the 20 or so that I have read (and just > recently I love the story Solitude in the Birthday of the World). But I have > just indulged in the luxury and privilege of reading many new ones and old > ones in my own private Le Guin festival, and I emerge happy, tearful yet > healed, and very moved by the power of her teaching. It is an audience with a > magnificent elder - there is no one else like her in my life and my gratitude > towards her is like the golden light of the evening as it pours over the > mountains and through the village streets. (she loves that time of day, > doesn't she?). I have been reading the ekumen emails that land in my in-box > over the years, yet I have never contributed - whether from shyness or > laziness I am not sure. But if I live by Ursula's teaching I would like to do > better than that, and reach out to you my invisible companions. I have > questions for you; > replies would be treasured. And I have a little gift to you - a story. It is > truthful, and magical. My story is my reply to the question I would ask of > you; does Ursula's work influence your life in the world? Or; how do you > change the world (or the world inside you) through the moral, aesthetic, > poetic possibilities revealed to you in encountering her work? How does her > 'fiction' change the world? > > My story goes something like this: > > Last year I went on a journey, to places I thought I would never know. I > became a pilgrim; walking for three weeks, all the way along the river of the > land where I was born and have always lived. I followed the length of the > Yarra, I followed every bend of what once was known as Birrarung, the river of > mists, from the sea, through the vast and sprawling city, to the distant > mountains, to the source. We walked every day along a songline of southern > Australia, a sacred, ancient Aboriginal pathway, to which the songs are lost, > as the Wurundjeri tribe were almost all killed (one way or another) in the > early years of white settlement. One woman out of the once hundreds of > Wurundjeri had children that survived, and a descendant of this woman was > there at the launch of the Long Yarra Walk, as the winds whipped up the bay. > She asked that the spirits of the ancestors walk with us. I didn't know what > this meant, but I knew it was a priceless gift. > > We lobbied and liaised for about a year to gain permission to walk all the way > along the river (as it is mostly in private hands), and we were successful, > except for one significant place. We thought that even there we would > eventually win them over through the magic of our pilgrimage, but walking in > wartime as we did (April 2003), the Upper Yarra Dam, the main water supply for > Melbourne, was seen as a terrorist target, and we were denied access at the > last moment. So we did what we swore we would not do, we got in a car and > drove around the valley, to access the headwaters from the other side, by > going from the top down. I was devastated as we sat in the car, thinking that > I had betrayed the spirit of the journey. But then, after we got the top of > the icy mountains, and we pilgrims had been warmed and welcomed by strangers, > something happened to change that assumption, when my friend brought out her > copy of Always Coming Home. This book by Ursula Le Guin is about a > 'reinhabitory' > society; set in the future, it depicts a people who know themselves through > their place (the Na Valley) and all the inhabitants (birds, animals, trees, > stones, mountains, weather) - it is my very favourite book, and my guide in > how to live in hope and beauty. I was keen to read to my companions the > special excerpts that meant so much to me, stories that were the inspiration > for the journey we were now on. And so I opened it up, from the back as it > happened. And there I found a poem that I had somehow - unaccountably - missed > in the last decade of reading this book continuously and voraciously: > > DAY NINETEEN > Stammersong > From the library at Wakwaha > > > > I have a different way, I have a different will, > > I have a different word to say. > > I am coming back by the road around the side, > > by the outside way, from the other direction. > > > > There is a valley, there are no hills around it. > > There is a river, it has no banks. > > There are people, they have no bodies, > > dancing by the river in the valley. > > > > I have drunk the water of that river. > > I am drunk my life long, my tongue is thick, > > and when I dance I stumble and fall over. > > When I die I will come back by the outside road > > And drink the water of this river, and be sober. > > > > There is a valley, high hills around it. > > There is a river, willows on its shores. > > There are people, their feet are beautiful, > > dancing by the river in the valley. > > > > I copied the poem into my diary, and then I wrote this: > > > > 'I have died to any sort of knowing other than faith, trust and openness. I > CANNOT believe this latest gift. To find this poem in Always Coming Home, at > the end of the book, just THERE - I know that book back to front, or so I > thought - yet I have never seen this poem! How could that be? And how could my > favourite book contain a poem that exactly described our situation - 'I am > coming back by the outside way, from the other direction'. My body sung and > span in response to these words. Here we are on top of Baw Baw, we came by the > outside way, from the other direction - out of the catchment then to here, > back in. The journey here from Reefton was so painful - much harder than I > imagined. I thought of the ancestors, left behind there as we sped off in a > car. I felt I had betrayed them - that they were the true victims of Melbourne > Water's prohibition. And I was wondering how to learn from that part of > ourselves that is in the form of big government - fear, control, > appropriation, > blindness and disenchantment. How could I mourn, learn to acknowledge the > shadow, and integrate the story once again - losing the innocence, the perhaps > self-centredness of the nave happy pilgrim to become richer, wiser, more > compassionate because more aware. Truly to bear witness, bear witness. So then > the poem. I read it to Kate and Cinnamon. We look at the book in wonder.' > > Hope others don't mind that I 'used' the poem like that; of course it has > endless meaning, and I see that and love that. The pilgrimage was 22 profound > days of grace, I found a sacred way through the heart of a modern city, > inspired by the journeys of the Finders and other characters in Always Coming > Home. It was entering another reality, one that I had been waiting for all my > life, and I heard the world singing. I know that the Songline is not destroyed > forever, but that we have a responsibility to remake the world through our > engagement with it, through our recognition of the inherent magical reality, > and through the truth of story. I have glimpsed briefly a way perhaps not > dissimilar from the world known in The Telling, and I wonder how I can share > this story, to help a culture of sustainable, sacred ways. So that my place, > the land I live within, is precious in the hearts of the inhabitants - and I > need not escape into books to find a world that is real. Does anyone know what > I > mean? > With respect for difference, and hope for communion and for the truth of the > earth - Maya > > John M wrote:Good Evening All- > > I was mumzing around looking at groups dedicated to various authors > and found you all, how fine to find a group dedicated to one of my > most favorite authors. I have been a fan of ULK's for many, many > years and would love to have the chance to talk about her and her > work with other fans. > > Thanks for letting me join, I hope I can learn more about ULK from > the threads and perhaps contribute a little to them once in awhile. > > -John from Oregon > > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jun 29 10:14:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.100]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 29 Jun 2004 09:58:53 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1058-1088528270-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.28] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2004 16:57:51 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33597 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2004 16:57:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jun 2004 16:57:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.54) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jun 2004 16:57:49 -0000 Received: from user-38ldvh1.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.254.33] helo=computer) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BfLvY-00025p-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Jun 2004 09:57:49 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.20040629093707.009e1ad0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <005801c45dc9$e7ddd0e0$a6749ed9@oemcomputer> References: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.54 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 09:58:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] woman being brave Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 12:12 PM 6/29/2004 +0100, Hannah wrote: >On Changing Planes I have to admit to a failure. My husband bought it for >my birthday. The cover made many references to spoof so I approached it >thinking - so how am I supposed to read this? Only when I got to the story >that was clearly spoofing the reaction to the death of Princess Diana did I >realise there must be alot I'm missing and discouraged put it aside. Can >anyone help with interpretation? If you're not native to or familiar with American culture, there are some things in _Changing Planes_ you won't understand. But despite the cover, the stories are not mostly spoofs. In each story, look for how the people in it differ from us. This is usually a thought experiment: what if people had the life-cycle of migrating birds, what if people could fly like birds, what if people never slept, etc. Only a couple of these are actual spoofs - the one about royalty, and the one about arguments which I think is a parody of Internet "flame wars", though as UKL doesn't read lists or newsgroups as far as I know, I'm not sure. There are stories in _The Compass Rose_ that are far more "difficult" spoofs than anything in _Changing Planes_. For instance the story "Intracom" which has two hidden meanings at once. >The second was a caveat to a somewhat >questionable statment that children's fantasy was much better written than >adult fantasy. UKL was acknowledged as an exception but I thought they were >far too sweeping in dismissing the rest of the genre! I love reading good >children's fantasy but think UKL has a number of - what's a better word than >competitors? - fellow writers although it would take a lot to take her away >from the top of the pile to me. As a general rule the statement is right. Most great adult fantasy is work of the past. Fine work still appears, but very very little of it compared with the whole, and it's almost impossible to find. This is because most general fantasy readers and critics today have no literary taste: they couldn't read very much of today's fantasy if they did. Have you read UKL's essay "From Elfland to Poughkeepsie"? Thirty years ago when it was written, "Poughkeepsie fantasy" was an oddity. Today it is completely dominant in the field. I read the essay today as a despairing cry from the canary in the coal mine, about to be overcome by noxious gas. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jun 29 20:54:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n41.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.67.16]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 29 Jun 2004 12:52:16 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1059-1088538733-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2004 19:52:14 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20573 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2004 19:52:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jun 2004 19:52:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jun 2004 19:52:12 -0000 Received: from du-040-0207.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.207] helo=oemcomputer) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BfOeH-00025C-4m for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:52:09 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c45e13$0de33480$cf749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <4.1.20040629093707.009e1ad0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.141 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:55:39 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] woman being brave Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks a lot David. I had been reading most of the Changing Planes stories as 'straight' fantasy, and on reading the one on royalty decided I was just stupid - I shall pick it up again reinheartened to enjoy as it comes across without worrying about hidden meanings. As for Intracom, if you've been pregnant and are alive to gender issues its not a problem! recognised that one first time around! Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Bratman" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] woman being brave > At 12:12 PM 6/29/2004 +0100, Hannah wrote: > > >On Changing Planes I have to admit to a failure. My husband bought it for > >my birthday. The cover made many references to spoof so I approached it > >thinking - so how am I supposed to read this? Only when I got to the story > >that was clearly spoofing the reaction to the death of Princess Diana did I > >realise there must be alot I'm missing and discouraged put it aside. Can > >anyone help with interpretation? > > If you're not native to or familiar with American culture, there are some > things in _Changing Planes_ you won't understand. But despite the cover, > the stories are not mostly spoofs. In each story, look for how the people > in it differ from us. This is usually a thought experiment: what if people > had the life-cycle of migrating birds, what if people could fly like birds, > what if people never slept, etc. Only a couple of these are actual spoofs > - the one about royalty, and the one about arguments which I think is a > parody of Internet "flame wars", though as UKL doesn't read lists or > newsgroups as far as I know, I'm not sure. There are stories in _The > Compass Rose_ that are far more "difficult" spoofs than anything in > _Changing Planes_. For instance the story "Intracom" which has two hidden > meanings at once. > > > >The second was a caveat to a somewhat > >questionable statment that children's fantasy was much better written than > >adult fantasy. UKL was acknowledged as an exception but I thought they were > >far too sweeping in dismissing the rest of the genre! I love reading good > >children's fantasy but think UKL has a number of - what's a better word than > >competitors? - fellow writers although it would take a lot to take her away > >from the top of the pile to me. > > As a general rule the statement is right. Most great adult fantasy is work > of the past. Fine work still appears, but very very little of it compared > with the whole, and it's almost impossible to find. This is because most > general fantasy readers and critics today have no literary taste: they > couldn't read very much of today's fantasy if they did. Have you read > UKL's essay "From Elfland to Poughkeepsie"? Thirty years ago when it was > written, "Poughkeepsie fantasy" was an oddity. Today it is completely > dominant in the field. I read the essay today as a despairing cry from the > canary in the coal mine, about to be overcome by noxious gas. > > - David Bratman > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jun 30 08:19:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.69]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:53:13 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1060-1088563193-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.31] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2004 02:39:53 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52350 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2004 02:39:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jun 2004 02:39:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.226) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2004 02:39:52 -0000 Received: from user-uinj97n.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.164.247] helo=computer) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BfV0k-0003E0-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:39:47 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.20040629193726.009debf0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000d01c45e13$0de33480$cf749ed9@oemcomputer> References: <4.1.20040629093707.009e1ad0@mail.earthlink.net> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.226 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:40:54 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] woman being brave Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 08:55 PM 6/29/2004 +0100, Hannah wrote: >As for Intracom, if you've been pregnant and are alive to gender issues its >not a problem! recognised that one first time around! You might be amazed how many people don't. "It's a Star Trek parody," they say, which is true up to a point. "It seems to run off the rails," they say. "What's all this talk about an alien?" they say. True joy can be had by hearing the recording of the author reading "Intracom" aloud, in the various voices. But I don't believe this is stil available, alas. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jun 29 20:56:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n48.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.67.25]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:47:04 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1061-1088563625-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2004 02:47:06 -0000 X-Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45549 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2004 02:47:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jun 2004 02:47:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grunt14.ihug.co.nz) (203.109.254.61) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2004 02:47:04 -0000 Received: from tig-nz-akl-ns-42.ihug.net (ihug.co.nz) [203.109.252.42] by grunt14.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BfV7Z-0004FD-00; Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:46:49 +1200 Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Quality Web Email v3.1b, http://netwinsite.com/refw.htm Priority: normal Message-id: <40e22999.1da.3fbd.1491216799@ihug.co.nz> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.109.254.61 From: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Originating-IP: 130.216.136.27 X-Yahoo-Profile: aquila1nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:46:49 +1200 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] woman being brave Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > At 08:55 PM 6/29/2004 +0100, Hannah wrote: > >As for Intracom, if you've been pregnant and are alive to > gender issues its >not a problem! recognised that one > first time around! > > You might be amazed how many people don't. "It's a Star > Trek parody," they say, which is true up to a point. "It > seems to run off the rails," they say. "What's all this > talk about an alien?" they say. > > True joy can be had by hearing the recording of the author > reading "Intracom" aloud, in the various voices. But I > don't believe this is stil available, alas. > > - David Bratman Oh gods. I have to admit it here. I first read Intracom about 14 years ago. I loved it. Loved the parody, loved the incredibly good for a woman" running joke, loved the whole thing. I reread it for about the 30th time last week. And got the pregnancy thing. I havve no idead why I didn't see it earlier. Aquila ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jun 30 10:30:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.77]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:40:14 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1062-1088613598-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2004 16:40:01 -0000 X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93801 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2004 16:39:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jun 2004 16:39:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.netcabo.pt) (212.113.174.9) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2004 16:39:57 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([81.84.172.215]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 30 Jun 2004 17:39:56 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jun 2004 16:39:56.0347 (UTC) FILETIME=[E052C8B0:01C45EC0] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.9 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 17:37:12 +0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Telling Words Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends Based on the assumption that UKL loves to communicate at various levels, I am puzzled at the origin and inspiration of many of her words. Furthermore, being a relatively new reader, I wondered if you would like to help me in this area. Here are some words that I am considering at present: Abid -bits of something yellow and pungent ("pickled") to balance sweet fruit in the early morning (a grapefruit effect?) Dovza City (It reminds me of dozy. Could it be the people there are asleep?) the scented herb immimi (Chinese or Korean?) I have discovered the Hainish Encyclopedia but these terms don't seem to be mentioned and the Hainish Encylopedia page at Babylon.com doesn't seem to be working. Besides, even if you have a definition of a word, its parallel meaning or source may not be included. For example, some words can be anagrams for others, can't they? Any help or ideas would be very much appreciated. Thanks Ian (in Portugal) P.S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jun 30 15:15:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.69]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:41:14 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1063-1088631674-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.30] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2004 21:41:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 92672 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2004 21:41:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jun 2004 21:41:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.105) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2004 21:41:13 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: caladan_dweller-newsletters@yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.117] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2004 21:40:55 -0000 X-Sender: caladan_dweller-newsletters@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50808 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2004 21:33:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jun 2004 21:33:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.75) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2004 21:33:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.130] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2004 21:33:10 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040627110821.30432.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.75 From: "castle_caladan_dweller" X-Originating-IP: 204.210.165.53 X-Yahoo-Profile: castle_caladan_dweller X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 30 Jun 2004 21:40:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.105 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 21:33:10 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: woman being brave Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just wanted to say thanks for posting that. It was very moving. I have not yet read that particular book by LeGuin, but will make it a priority to do so now. --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, maya ward wrote: > > Dear Friends > > I have been very influenced by Ursula's writings for many years, my favourite book being Always Coming Home... ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 01 00:02:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.82]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2004 23:09:22 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1064-1088662164-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2004 06:09:24 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95686 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 06:09:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 06:09:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.49) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 06:09:23 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfi1c.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.200.44] helo=computer) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bfuka-0002rd-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Jun 2004 23:08:49 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.20040630230757.009cbef0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.49 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 23:09:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Telling Words Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are exceptions, mostly in her more whimsical fables, but generally for UKL's serious work I would advise against stretching to use anagrams and loose sound resemblances to find meanings for her other-language words. - David Bratman At 05:37 PM 6/30/2004 +0000, Ian (in Portugal) wrote: >Based on the assumption that UKL loves to communicate at various levels, I >am puzzled at the origin and inspiration of many of her words. Furthermore, >being a relatively new reader, I wondered if you would like to help me in >this area. Here are some words that I am considering at present: > > >Abid -bits of something yellow and pungent ("pickled") to balance sweet >fruit in the early morning (a grapefruit effect?) >Dovza City (It reminds me of dozy. Could it be the people there are asleep?) >the scented herb immimi (Chinese or Korean?) > >I have discovered the Hainish Encyclopedia but these terms don't seem to be >mentioned and the Hainish Encylopedia page at Babylon.com doesn't seem to be >working. Besides, even if you have a definition of a word, its parallel >meaning or source may not be included. For example, some words can be >anagrams for others, can't they? > >Any help or ideas would be very much appreciated. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 01 09:35:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.67]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 04:35:10 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1065-1088681710-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.29] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2004 11:35:10 -0000 X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91417 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 11:35:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 11:35:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.netcabo.pt) (212.113.174.9) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 11:35:09 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([81.84.172.159]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 1 Jul 2004 12:35:03 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040630230757.009cbef0@mail.earthlink.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jul 2004 11:35:03.0312 (UTC) FILETIME=[733CE900:01C45F5F] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.9 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 12:31:34 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Telling Words-D Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Thanks for your help. I 'think' I understand what you are getting at: from an academic point of view such speculation about words is unlikely to 'hold the light of day,' right? I agree if I have understood you correctly but I am not sure whether Ursula would really wish her work to be defined too narrowly, anyway. As she says, some things just are (or simply don't fit a cause and effect paradigm), which is your point, too, isn't it? What interests me is how terms may/might open up our minds to different ways of thinking. I am not looking for definitive answers but am interested in how Ursula's words may set us thinking. I get the impression that she writes for each of us to develop our own interpretation and thinking rather than being restricted by her own. She seems to have a 'one to many' approach, to play with words and sounds to re-appraise, to dance in possibilities. A mind-opening experience. Of course, I may be wrong but I, for one, appreciate fruitful processes in our lives which may be very subjective - you know: one man's meat...You have probably read her little talk in The Wave in the Mind called 'Being taken for granite, which sums up my point here. So my impression is that a 'brain storming' approach isn't a problem and am fascinated to hear about the thoughts, notions (and even experiences) that her words may trigger. For me, her words enrich rather than impoverish: activate rather than pacify and enslave. They are chosen to be meaningful. All that said and done, I will certainly keep your advice in mind, David. I realise that it is also important to 'keep your feet on the ground' in the long run or risk falling flat on you face and even getting hurt. Once again, thanks for your time and interest. Ian on 7/1/04 6:09 AM, David Bratman at dbratman@earthlink.net wrote: > There are exceptions, mostly in her more whimsical fables, but generally > for UKL's serious work I would advise against stretching to use anagrams > and loose sound resemblances to find meanings for her other-language words. > > - David Bratman > > > At 05:37 PM 6/30/2004 +0000, Ian (in Portugal) wrote: > >> Based on the assumption that UKL loves to communicate at various levels, I >> am puzzled at the origin and inspiration of many of her words. Furthermore, >> being a relatively new reader, I wondered if you would like to help me in >> this area. Here are some words that I am considering at present: >> >> >> Abid -bits of something yellow and pungent ("pickled") to balance sweet >> fruit in the early morning (a grapefruit effect?) >> Dovza City (It reminds me of dozy. Could it be the people there are asleep?) >> the scented herb immimi (Chinese or Korean?) >> >> I have discovered the Hainish Encyclopedia but these terms don't seem to be >> mentioned and the Hainish Encylopedia page at Babylon.com doesn't seem to be >> working. Besides, even if you have a definition of a word, its parallel >> meaning or source may not be included. For example, some words can be >> anagrams for others, can't they? >> >> Any help or ideas would be very much appreciated. > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 01 11:49:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.65]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 10:48:57 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1066-1088704062-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.28] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2004 17:48:58 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15295 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 17:47:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 17:47:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.46) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 17:47:41 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfkhi.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.210.50] helo=computer) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bg5eX-0002P5-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:47:17 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.20040701084541.009d8a20@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.20040630230757.009cbef0@mail.earthlink.net> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.46 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:48:18 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Telling Words-D Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 12:31 PM 7/1/2004 +0000, Ian wrote: >I 'think' I understand what you are getting at: from >an academic point of view such speculation about words is unlikely to 'hold >the light of day,' right? No, I mean that it is unlikely to shed any light on what the author meant, or direct you to think about what she intended you to think about. UKL was quite shaken when people assumed that the name Ged was related to God. That would be a very misleading interpretation of Earthsea. >What interests me is how terms may/might open up our minds to different ways >of thinking. I am not looking for definitive answers but am interested in >how Ursula's words may set us thinking. Well, sure: you can think about anything you want to think about, and a book may set your mind off on any tangent. But please distinguish between things that are actually in the story (whether authorially intended or not) and things that are just in your head. For instance, maybe the reference to the flute-player in "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" gets you thinking about your days as a flutist in high-school marching band. I expect the author wouldn't mind that, unless it gets you distracted from the story and into thinking about how much you disliked the band director, and wanted to catch the eye of the cute person who played the clarinet. But high-school band is not in the story. One needs to remember that. There are critics who insist on seeing all literature through a Marxist lens, or a feminist lens. This can be illuminating, and it can tell you a lot about the cultural assumptions with which the story was written. But as interpretation of the meaning of the story, it's a gross stretch unless the author was working with the same assumptions as the critic. >I get the impression that she writes >for each of us to develop our own interpretation and thinking rather than >being restricted by her own. She seems to have a 'one to many' approach, to >play with words and sounds to re-appraise, to dance in possibilities. Also yes, and word-play for word-play's sake is something UKL likes. See "Loud Cows" in _A Wave in the Mind_. And you can use words from _The Telling_ for that if you want. But that's not what you seemed to me to be doing. This looked like using your free-associations from the word's sound to interpret the meaning of the referent. That is an attempt to ferret out a meaning, which easily morphs in one's mind to THE true meaning, of the story. An entirely different thing. It's a mind-closing action, not a mind-opening one. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jul 02 11:07:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.90]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 00:01:38 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1067-1088751697-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2004 07:01:37 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59618 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 07:01:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 07:01:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 07:01:36 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.6b.2d4c25fa (4340) for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 03:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6b.2d4c25fa.2e166246@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6108 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.4 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 03:01:26 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 402 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Ian, Someone recently quoted I don't remember who, saying, don't ask for the meaning of a word, ask for its use. Obviously, Le Guin has a lot of fun making up words, and I'm sure even she couldn't tell you where they all came from. As you say, what's interesting is seeing what echos they produce in different readers. And you can't get hurt doing that, unless you try to claim that you've found the one and only possible definition. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jul 02 11:07:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.105]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 05:24:13 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1068-1088771054-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2004 12:24:14 -0000 X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32476 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 12:24:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 12:24:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.netcabo.pt) (212.113.174.9) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 12:24:13 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([81.84.172.139]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 2 Jul 2004 13:24:07 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040701084541.009d8a20@mail.earthlink.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2004 12:24:07.0298 (UTC) FILETIME=[78674620:01C4602F] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.9 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 13:21:18 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Telling Words-D2 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you again, David: on 7/1/04 5:48 PM, David Bratman at dbratman@earthlink.net wrote: > > UKL was quite shaken when people assumed that the name Ged was related to > God. That would be a very misleading interpretation of Earthsea. An interesting point. Though, as Ursula says in the Loud Cows piece, it is never twice the same. Texts can take on a life of their own: an author's 'brainchild' may grow. > > > There are critics who insist on seeing all literature through a Marxist > lens, or a feminist lens. This can be illuminating, and it can tell you a > lot about the cultural assumptions with which the story was written. But > as interpretation of the meaning of the story, it's a gross stretch unless > the author was working with the same assumptions as the critic. I take your point. Although often we are not completely aware of the assumptions we make. Nevertheless, Ursula may be something of an exception given her background and experience. > > >> I get the impression that she writes >> for each of us to develop our own interpretation and thinking rather than >> being restricted by her own. She seems to have a 'one to many' approach, to >> play with words and sounds to re-appraise, to dance in possibilities. > > Also yes, and word-play for word-play's sake is something UKL likes. See > "Loud Cows" in _A Wave in the Mind_. And you can use words from _The > Telling_ for that if you want. > > But that's not what you seemed to me to be doing. This looked like using > your free-associations from the word's sound to interpret the meaning of > the referent. That is an attempt to ferret out a meaning, which easily > morphs in one's mind to THE true meaning, of the story. An entirely > different thing. It's a mind-closing action, not a mind-opening one. Well, that certainly sounds like an example of paradoxical intention, which I agree could happen. A carefully maintained balance is called for, isn't it? Nevertheless, what I seem to be noticing is that some words that might appear to be invented actually exist. For example, 'tomu' and 'futon' and their reason for being. Then, there are others like the 'lightning tree' which may or may not be intended to be a druid reference. Hence, at times I am finding it difficult to draw a line between what is intended and what is not - my main reason for joining this group, I suppose. Thanks again Ian ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jul 02 11:08:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.85]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 06:03:53 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1069-1088773426-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2004 13:03:51 -0000 X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56659 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 13:03:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 13:03:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.netcabo.pt) (212.113.174.9) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 13:03:43 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([81.84.172.139]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 2 Jul 2004 14:03:42 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6b.2d4c25fa.2e166246@aol.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2004 13:03:42.0303 (UTC) FILETIME=[000446F0:01C46035] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.9 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 14:00:53 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 402+ Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Judy Thanks for your interesting comment. Of course, a contextualised word will indicate more clearly the author's intention. The problem, then, is where the context ends.... in some cases quite a big problem to someone like myself who is relatively new to Ursula's writing, ideas and even worlds. In addition, from the lines that appear in italics, it is clear that Ursula makes full use of intertextuality and is very well read - tracking down these references is challenging to say the least. For example:"Let me not to the marriage of true minds admit impediment." Shakespeare, The Telling, page 83 but what of the opening lines of "The terraces of Darranda?" on the same page? Ian on 7/2/04 7:01 AM, judyldubois@aol.com at judyldubois@aol.com wrote: > To Ian, > > Someone recently quoted I don't remember who, saying, don't ask for the > meaning of a word, ask for its use. Obviously, Le Guin has a lot of fun > making up > words, and I'm sure even she couldn't tell you where they all came from. As > you say, what's interesting is seeing what echos they produce in different > readers. And you can't get hurt doing that, unless you try to claim that > you've > found the one and only possible definition. Judy > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jul 05 09:55:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.88]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 05:01:16 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1070-1089028876-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.27] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2004 12:01:17 -0000 X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53182 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2004 12:01:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2004 12:01:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.netcabo.pt) (212.113.174.9) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2004 12:01:15 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([81.84.172.166]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 5 Jul 2004 13:01:07 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <40e22999.1da.3fbd.1491216799@ihug.co.nz> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jul 2004 12:01:08.0009 (UTC) FILETIME=[C185B990:01C46287] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.9 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:58:12 +0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Telling ideas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Dear Friends (and especially Maya) When I read Maya's story in 'Women being brave,' I can't say that I was that surprised: it was more surprising to me that more of us didn't report similar experiences. Ursula has a profound sense of archetypal ideas, which by their nature are likely to keep surfacing in our lives. As I read the Telling, I think of the river I know and my 'mountain.' In addition, I note how culture changes as I move away from the big city. For example, the nature and quality of acceptance intensifies and acts as an antidote to 'alienation.' Anyway, in the Telling on page 82, Sutty outlines 'innumerable things she wants to learn about.' These seem to be in great part cultural resources that we have access to although they aren't taught in dominant culture (if I can put it that way). The first is meditation exercises (Ursula has translated a book connected to these: "Lao Tzu: Tao Te Ching," which I have ordered but not yet read) Then, there are the double-cloud doors (something to do with the story??? - I haven't finished reading it yet because I want to savour the ideas as much as possible ) and the inscriptions in shops (we still have some old traditional shops in Portugal and they certainly represent unique worlds of meaning, gems of human existence) Next: THE TREE METAPHORS she kept hearing in talk about FOOD or HEALTH or anything to do with the BODY. (As I am a 'tree' person whose happiness is determined by contact with and the presence of trees, I was happy to hear someone talking about a subject that I have always sensed rather than spoken about. For example, we are taught that one and one makes two, to think linearly, whereas 'the tree of life' represents exponential thinking, to say the least. Then there is the existence of banned books (this was less of a surprise because we know Ursula is a book lover and prizes reading highly and is central to the story.) And, finally, the certain existence of a WEB or Net of information, subtler than the electronic one and uncontrolled by the Corporation, that kept people all over the city in touch and aware at all times of, for instance Sutty: who she was , where she was, what she wanted (already not far from our reality what with the Internet, etc.) She saw this awareness in the eyes of street people, shopkeepers, schoolchildren, the old women who dug in the little gardens, the old men who sat in the sun on barrels on street corners. (Talk about dej vu - you can still feel that if you walk into a close-knit community here in Portugal) She felt it as uninvasive, as if she walked among faint lines of guidance, not bonds, not constraints, but REASSURANCES. (Amongst other things that reminded me of Maya's "invisible companions" referring to those in this group.) Well, as I mentioned in my other emails, I am new to Ursula's works so if anyone would like to enlarge on such 'Telling ideas' I would count myself lucky to read them. Ian (in Portugal) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jul 05 10:28:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.77]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 10:07:12 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1071-1089047231-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.27] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2004 17:07:12 -0000 X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17012 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2004 17:07:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2004 17:07:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.netcabo.pt) (212.113.174.9) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2004 17:07:09 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([81.84.172.166]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 5 Jul 2004 18:03:11 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040630230757.009cbef0@mail.earthlink.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jul 2004 17:03:11.0750 (UTC) FILETIME=[F41D2260:01C462B1] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.9 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:00:15 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] More Telling Words Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone understand how these words on page 88 of The Telling are constructed: Biedins system of officials (old word on Aka) Vizdestit joint business or corporation (new word on Aka) Riyingdutey producer-consumer (new word on Aka) Ian (in Portugal) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jul 05 17:51:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.107]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:00:37 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1072-1089068438-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2004 23:00:39 -0000 X-Sender: roddy.graham@virgin.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14439 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2004 23:00:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2004 23:00:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk) (195.188.213.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2004 23:00:37 -0000 Received: from virgin.net ([195.188.138.34]) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Mon, 5 Jul 2004 23:47:57 +0100 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <2E10411F-CED5-11D8-A6AB-003065470C8C@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jul 2004 22:47:57.0635 (UTC) FILETIME=[1DDCB130:01C462E2] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 195.188.213.5 From: Roddy Graham X-Yahoo-Profile: rodbodtoo MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 23:46:40 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Telling Words Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wednesday, June 30, 2004, at 06:37 pm, rowcliffe wrote: > Dear Friends > > Based on the assumption that UKL loves to communicate at various > levels, I > am puzzled at the origin and inspiration of many of her words. > Furthermore, > being a relatively new reader, I wondered if you would like to help me > in > this area. Here are some words that I am considering at present: > > > Abid -bits of something yellow and pungent ("pickled") to balance sweet > fruit in the early morning (a grapefruit effect?) > Dovza City (It reminds me of dozy. Could it be the people there are > asleep?) > the scented herb immimi (Chinese or Korean?) > "when I use a word", Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less" On the other hand, "Words mean what the audience hears, not what the speaker said, far less what they may have meant" chiz chiz rdg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jul 06 09:53:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n45.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.67.21]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2004 05:10:44 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1073-1089115840-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2004 12:10:40 -0000 X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4049 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2004 12:10:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2004 12:10:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.netcabo.pt) (212.113.174.9) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2004 12:10:38 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([81.84.172.154]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 6 Jul 2004 12:55:52 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2E10411F-CED5-11D8-A6AB-003065470C8C@virgin.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2004 11:55:53.0075 (UTC) FILETIME=[30385C30:01C46350] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.9 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:52:53 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Telling Words Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for your reply, Roddy. on 7/5/04 10:46 PM, Roddy Graham at roddy.graham@virgin.net wrote: > > On Wednesday, June 30, 2004, at 06:37 pm, rowcliffe wrote: > >> Dear Friends >> >> Based on the assumption that UKL loves to communicate at various >> levels, I >> am puzzled at the origin and inspiration of many of her words. >> Furthermore, >> being a relatively new reader, I wondered if you would like to help me >> in >> this area. Here are some words that I am considering at present: >> >> >> Abid -bits of something yellow and pungent ("pickled") to balance sweet >> fruit in the early morning (a grapefruit effect?) >> Dovza City (It reminds me of dozy. Could it be the people there are >> asleep?) >> the scented herb immimi (Chinese or Korean?) >> > > "when I use a word", Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone, "it > means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less" > > On the other hand, > > "Words mean what the audience hears, not what the speaker said, far > less what they may have meant" > > > > chiz chiz Well... * 'a chiz is a swiz or a swindle as any fule kno' taken from the work of THE GREAT MOLESWORTH I. Used as mild expletive (like cr'p or sh't) and as a word after anything bad ie 'Chiz, triple games after music' after recieving timetable. (http://dicshunary.com/view_dict.php?letter=C) (http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A245620) the practice of mis-spelling every third word leads me to think of cheese -as in smile for the camera So you used it to illustrate your second point, rather than its 'formal' use, reet? Ian ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 07 17:51:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.74]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2004 17:38:07 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1074-1089247089-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.31] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2004 00:38:09 -0000 X-Sender: roddy.graham@virgin.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34132 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 00:38:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 00:38:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-out1.blueyonder.co.uk) (195.188.213.4) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 00:38:07 -0000 Received: from virgin.net ([62.31.135.34]) by smtp-out1.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 8 Jul 2004 01:38:17 +0100 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2004 00:38:18.0427 (UTC) FILETIME=[DCFCE0B0:01C46483] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 195.188.213.4 From: Roddy Graham X-Yahoo-Profile: rodbodtoo MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 01:36:58 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Telling Words Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit !!!! OFF TOPIC POSTING !!!! On Tuesday, July 6, 2004, at 01:52 pm, rowcliffe wrote: > Thanks for your reply, Roddy. > > on 7/5/04 10:46 PM, Roddy Graham at roddy.graham@virgin.net wrote: > >> >> >> "when I use a word", Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone, "it >> means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less" >> >> On the other hand, >> >> "Words mean what the audience hears, not what the speaker said, far >> less what they may have meant" >> >> >> >> chiz chiz > > Well... > > > * 'a chiz is a swiz or a swindle as any fule kno' taken from the work > of THE > GREAT MOLESWORTH I. Used as mild expletive (like cr'p or sh't) and as > a word > after anything bad ie 'Chiz, triple games after music' after recieving > timetable. (http://dicshunary.com/view_dict.php?letter=C) > (http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A245620) > > the practice of mis-spelling every third word leads me to think of > cheese > -as in smile for the camera > > So you used it to illustrate your second point, rather than its > 'formal' > use, reet? > > > Ian > Weirdly enough, Ian, no. I've been signing off emails for several years that way, but I don't have a good enough archive to be able to say when I started doing so. I know I remembered it as a word my Dad used as a contraction of 'cheers', which is a commonplace casual sign-off for letters, emails, whatever. However, I also remembered it - vaguely - as coming from the Molesworth books. Then just last month, on a whim, I googled 'chiz' and found this page http://www.alice.dryden.co.uk/ho_for_hoggwarts.htm and others of like ilk, and realised that the Molesworth meaning of the word rather contradicted my family's use of it. But of course when I wrote the email that prompted _you_ to google 'chiz', I naturally used the word the way _I_ meant it. Clear as mud, yes? I need more caffeine before I can think any further, so I'll just say chiz chiz rdg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 07 23:13:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.70]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2004 18:40:28 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1075-1089250830-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.159] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2004 01:40:31 -0000 X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33795 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 01:40:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 01:40:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.netcabo.pt) (212.113.174.9) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 01:40:29 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([81.84.172.117]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 8 Jul 2004 02:40:28 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2004 01:40:28.0354 (UTC) FILETIME=[8C329220:01C4648C] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.9 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 02:37:26 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Telling Words+ Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry I thought you were trying to demonstrate the way invented words function or not, something like Ursula's. on 7/8/04 12:36 AM, Roddy Graham at roddy.graham@virgin.net wrote: > !!!! OFF TOPIC POSTING !!!! Perhaps, I have been reading too much. The Telling page 104: There was no correct text. There was no standard version. Of anything. There was not one Arbor but many, many arbors. The jungle was endless, and it was not one jungle but endless jungles, all burning with bright tigers of meaning, endless tigers ... Reading things like that it gets a little difficult to know where things begin and end. Besides, I thought I was reacting to what you had written so there seems to be a contradiction somewhere, endless tigers? Sometimes words can pounce on you, but, like Sutty, I will not go into that jungle. > > On Tuesday, July 6, 2004, at 01:52 pm, rowcliffe wrote: > >> Thanks for your reply, Roddy. >> >> on 7/5/04 10:46 PM, Roddy Graham at roddy.graham@virgin.net wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> "when I use a word", Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone, "it >>> means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less" >>> >>> On the other hand, >>> >>> "Words mean what the audience hears, not what the speaker said, far >>> less what they may have meant" >>> >>> >>> >>> chiz chiz >> >> Well... >> >> >> * 'a chiz is a swiz or a swindle as any fule kno' taken from the work >> of THE >> GREAT MOLESWORTH I. Used as mild expletive (like cr'p or sh't) and as >> a word >> after anything bad ie 'Chiz, triple games after music' after recieving >> timetable. (http://dicshunary.com/view_dict.php?letter=C) >> (http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A245620) >> >> the practice of mis-spelling every third word leads me to think of >> cheese >> -as in smile for the camera >> >> So you used it to illustrate your second point, rather than its >> 'formal' >> use, reet? >> >> >> Ian >> > > > Weirdly enough, Ian, no. I've been signing off emails for several years > that way, but I don't have a good enough archive to be able to say when > I started doing so. I know I remembered it as a word my Dad used as a > contraction of 'cheers', which is a commonplace casual sign-off for > letters, emails, whatever. However, I also remembered it - vaguely - as > coming from the Molesworth books. Then just last month, on a whim, I > googled 'chiz' and found this page > > http://www.alice.dryden.co.uk/ho_for_hoggwarts.htm > > and others of like ilk, and realised that the Molesworth meaning of the > word rather contradicted my family's use of it. But of course when I > wrote the email that prompted _you_ to google 'chiz', I naturally > used the word the way _I_ meant it. > > Clear as mud, yes? > > I need more caffeine before I can think any further, so I'll just say > > > chiz chiz > > rdg > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 08 14:30:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.78]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 13:20:19 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1076-1089318020-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.156] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2004 20:20:21 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37738 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 20:20:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 20:20:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 20:20:18 -0000 Received: from du-040-0234.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.234] helo=oemcomputer) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BifNR-000DWL-3o for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 08 Jul 2004 21:20:17 +0100 Message-ID: <003c01c46529$7ce407c0$ea749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.141 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:23:52 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Telling ideas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian If you are into trees, read UKLs short story 'Direction of the Road' from 'The Wind's twelve quarters voume 2' Hannah 'Next: THE TREE METAPHORS she kept hearing in talk about FOOD or HEALTH or anything to do with the BODY. (As I am a 'tree' person whose happiness is determined by contact with and the presence of trees, I was happy to hear someone talking about a subject that I have always sensed rather than spoken about. For example, we are taught that one and one makes two, to think linearly, whereas 'the tree of life' represents exponential thinking, to say the least. Ian (in Portugal)' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Jul 10 08:49:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.79]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 06:08:53 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1077-1089464933-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.28] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2004 13:08:53 -0000 X-Sender: susnow@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50286 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 13:08:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 13:08:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54107.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.242) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 13:08:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20040710130850.12026.qmail@web54107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.168.68.65] by web54107.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 06:08:50 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1089389576.517.66485.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.37.242 From: Susan Sand X-Yahoo-Profile: susnow MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 06:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea is coming to Scifi Channel Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just thought I'd tell you fine folks about that. Although, I hope that the movie is as good as the book. :-) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 11 18:59:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.78]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 09:17:52 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1078-1089476273-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2004 16:17:54 -0000 X-Sender: jodemior2000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3984 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 16:17:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 16:17:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 16:17:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.114] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2004 16:17:48 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040710130850.12026.qmail@web54107.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.73 From: "John M" X-Originating-IP: 65.113.237.127 X-Yahoo-Profile: jodemior2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 16:17:45 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea is coming to Scifi Channel Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Susan- Thank you for the tip. Do you know when, is it fairly soon? -John --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, Susan Sand wrote: > Just thought I'd tell you fine folks about that. > Although, I hope that the movie is as good as the > book. > > :-) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 11 18:59:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.84]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 16:43:28 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1079-1089503010-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2004 23:43:31 -0000 X-Sender: schwelle@libero.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37066 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 23:43:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 23:43:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.libero.it) (193.70.192.52) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 23:43:29 -0000 Received: from localhost (172.16.1.83) by smtp2.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 40C7347600748FF7 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 01:43:44 +0200 Received: from libero.it (172.16.1.90) by smtp1.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 40C72ED4004013B9 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 01:43:34 +0200 Message-Id: X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "the-ekumen" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B27) X-type: 0 X-SenderIP: 81.208.60.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at libero.it X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.70.192.52 From: "schwelle\@libero\.it" X-Yahoo-Profile: nonchiederci MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 01:43:28 +0200 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea is coming to Scifi Channel Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 06:08:50 -0700 (PDT) > From: Susan Sand > Subject: Re: Earthsea is coming to Scifi Channel > > Just thought I'd tell you fine folks about that. > Although, I hope that the movie is as good as the > book. > > :-) Wonderful! Oh, wait.. I don't even know where to look for SciFi Channel. Any possibility that it will be sold out as a DVD? Paola/Paula ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 11 19:01:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.81]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:37:40 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1080-1089567460-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.160] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2004 17:37:41 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33770 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 17:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 17:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 17:37:39 -0000 Received: from du-040-0061.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.61] helo=oemcomputer) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BjiGX-0004uO-EB for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 18:37:31 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c4676e$3e9174c0$3d749ed9@oemcomputer> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.143 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 18:40:58 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] Harcourt Trade Publishers - Ursula K. Le Guin's BookExpo America Speech Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My daughter Jenny found this for me and I thought I would share it with any of you who have not seen it. Hannah http://www.harcourtbooks.com/AuthorInterviews/LeGuinBEASpech.asp [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 11 19:01:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.75]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:17:34 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1081-1089577056-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.30] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2004 20:17:36 -0000 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70101 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 20:17:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 20:17:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out002.verizon.net) (206.46.170.141) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 20:17:27 -0000 Received: from Zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.223.102.164]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040711201727.OOKD9273.out002.verizon.net@Zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 15:17:27 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040711160502.00b39f30@incoming.verizon.net> X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000901c4676e$3e9174c0$3d749ed9@oemcomputer> X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [64.223.102.164] at Sun, 11 Jul 2004 15:17:26 -0500 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.46.170.141 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 16:17:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Harcourt Trade Publishers - Ursula K. Le Guin's BookExpo America Speech Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 06:40 PM 07/11/2004 +0100, Robins- one of wrote: >My daughter Jenny found this for me and I thought I would share it with >any of you who have not seen it. >Hannah > > http://www.harcourtbooks.com/AuthorInterviews/LeGuinBEASpech.asp Thanks for the link, Hannah! Not only was the speech a nice one, the sidebar on the right alerted me to the fact that *Very Far Away from Anywhere Else* is FINALLY being reprinted. YAY! For those who haven't encountered it, this is one of Le Guin's shortest and most moving works. It's not fantasy or science fiction. It's a first-person narrative of a confused teenage boy in 1970s USA. Though it's a completely different style from any of Le Guin's other books, many of her recurring themes are beautifully treated. I heartily recommend it. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: The Mountain Goats -- We Shall All Be Healed "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 11 21:40:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.99]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 20:36:54 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1082-1089603417-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.27] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2004 03:36:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 39831 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 03:36:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 03:36:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 03:36:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: riz@cambridgedocs.com Received: from [66.218.66.117] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2004 03:36:55 -0000 X-Sender: riz@cambridgedocs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89659 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 01:20:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 01:20:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out-mail11.yourhostingaccount.com) (38.113.1.57) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 01:20:42 -0000 Received: from scan06.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.236] helo=scan06.yourhostingaccount.com) by mail11.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1BjpUd-000843-HF for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:20:31 -0400 Received: from r2d2.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.178] ident=exim) by scan06.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1BjpUd-0002Th-0x for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:20:31 -0400 Received: from r2d2.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.178] helo=smtp.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan06.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1BjpUc-0002Te-UQ for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:20:30 -0400 Received: from h000c41460035.ne.client2.attbi.com ([65.96.160.57] helo=Roke) by smtp.yourhostingaccount.com with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BjpUb-0003q3-0C for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:20:30 -0400 To: Message-ID: <005001c467ae$61410cc0$6802a8c0@Roke> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UserInfo: 7835660004d3d2ad12470868ddcb70fe:0be012c511e9c667b52ad22ad1b0e703 X-User: xyztechnologies_9 Sender: "Rizwan Virk" X-UserName: unknown X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 38.113.1.57 From: "Rizwan Virk" X-Yahoo-Profile: rizwanv X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 12 Jul 2004 03:36:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.70 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:20:00 -0400 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea is coming to Scifi Channel Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See the following link for information on the eartshea mini-series ... when I spoke to the sci fi channel last year they had just started writing the script and were planning to try to put the the first three earthsea books into a single mini-series ... Looks like that's what they did ... ... you never know with adaptations, though! http://www.scifi.com/earthsea/about/ thanks, -Riz -----Original Message----- From: schwelle@libero.it [mailto:schwelle@libero.it] Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 7:43 PM To: the-ekumen Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea is coming to Scifi Channel > Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 06:08:50 -0700 (PDT) > From: Susan Sand > Subject: Re: Earthsea is coming to Scifi Channel > > Just thought I'd tell you fine folks about that. > Although, I hope that the movie is as good as the > book. > > :-) Wonderful! Oh, wait.. I don't even know where to look for SciFi Channel. Any possibility that it will be sold out as a DVD? Paola/Paula Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jul 19 22:29:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.79]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 23:00:25 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1083-1090216829-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.30] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 06:00:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 1690 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 06:00:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 06:00:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.92) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 06:00:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.66.123] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 05:59:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 80675 invoked by uid 65534); 19 Jul 2004 05:59:34 -0000 Message-ID: <1090216774.463.80659.w87@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.92 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: 19 Jul 2004 05:59:34 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the the-ekumen group: How does the fact that Ged is being played by a white actor make you feel about the Earthsea miniseries? (Sorry to put words in people's mouths, feel free to ignore the poll and say what you actually feel on the list, I'm just hoping to get some discussion going. And my casting information comes from imdb.com) o Doesn't matter to me since there's no way I'd be watching it anyway o Appalled, and I've lost all faith in the production o Not sure. I think the character's skin colour isn't essential, but the casting choice makes me doubt the directors understanding of Le Guin's world. o I'm fine with it. o Ged isn't white in the books? To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/surveys?id=1313603 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jul 19 22:30:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.64]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 04:56:48 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1084-1090238206-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 11:56:48 -0000 X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11939 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 11:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 11:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 11:56:39 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1BmWqH-0006nM-4K for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:02:01 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20040719120201.GG522@ccil.org> References: <1090216774.463.80659.w87@yahoogroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1090216774.463.80659.w87@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:02:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com scripsit: > (Sorry to put words in people's mouths, > feel free to ignore the poll and say > what you actually feel on the list, I'm > just hoping to get some discussion > going. And my casting information comes > from imdb.com) None of these really capture my view. I'm certainly going to watch it, I wish they had cast a Native American or Mexican actor, I understand why they didn't (revolting as it is), and as for the moviemakers' understanding of Le Guin's world, we'll just have to see. It may turn out to be an inessential mistake. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Does anybody want any flotsam? / I've gotsam. Does anybody want any jetsam? / I can getsam. --Ogden Nash, No Doctors Today, Thank You ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jul 19 22:32:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.69]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:29:23 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1085-1090255130-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.31] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 16:38:51 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97066 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 16:38:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 16:38:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.226) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 16:38:49 -0000 Received: from user-38ldvm9.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.254.201] helo=computer) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BmbA6-00037j-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:38:47 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.20040719093228.009d2df0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1090216774.463.80659.w87@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.226 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:38:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >How does the fact that Ged is being >played by a white actor make you feel >about the Earthsea miniseries? I too consider this unanswerable. My feelings are somewhere in between these two: > o Appalled, and I've lost all faith in the production > o Not sure. I think the character's skin colour isn't essential, but the >casting choice makes me doubt the directors understanding of Le Guin's world. I think the character's skin color _is_ essential, but I still might hope for some good in other elements of the production. As a Tolkien fan bruised and battered by the egregious offenses of Peter Jackson, I still found some value and virtues in his films. (Did you notice that Ogion is being played by the increasingly distinguished black actor Danny Glover? I think he's whom you get if James Earl Jones is too old for the part. ) However, in another sense my answer would be: > o Doesn't matter to me since there's no way I'd be watching it anyway but not because I consider it a stinker I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. Instead, it's because the film will be on cable, and I don't get cable. I couldn't possibly imagine anything on television that would make cable fees worthwhile. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jul 19 22:32:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.77]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:11:45 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1086-1090264306-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.30] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 19:11:46 -0000 X-Sender: jodemior2000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42493 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 19:11:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 19:11:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.86) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 19:11:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.163] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 19:09:19 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1090216774.463.80659.w87@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.86 From: "John M" X-Originating-IP: 159.121.192.62 X-Yahoo-Profile: jodemior2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:09:19 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, if those are the only choices I went with the 3rd one. If the characterization is right, if the actor makes you believe that's Ged there in that little box, then his skin color is kind of inconsequential. Having said that, I think that it doesn't bode well that they did not choose a Black, Native American or Hispanic actor for the part. Certainly there must be qualified actors available. If they didn't adhere to that what else will they get wrong? And I will definitely try to catch it. I live out in the boonies and all I have is cable. -John from Oregon --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > the-ekumen group: > > How does the fact that Ged is being > played by a white actor make you feel > about the Earthsea miniseries? > (Sorry to put words in people's mouths, > feel free to ignore the poll and say > what you actually feel on the list, I'm > just hoping to get some discussion > going. And my casting information comes > from imdb.com) > > o Doesn't matter to me since there's no way I'd be watching it anyway > o Appalled, and I've lost all faith in the production > o Not sure. I think the character's skin colour isn't essential, but the casting choice makes me doubt the directors understanding of Le Guin's world. > o I'm fine with it. > o Ged isn't white in the books? > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/surveys?id=1313603 > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jul 19 22:33:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.80]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:34:23 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1087-1090280058-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.28] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 23:34:23 -0000 X-Sender: riz@cambridgedocs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2673 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 23:34:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 23:34:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fed1rmmtao04.cox.net) (68.230.241.35) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 23:34:04 -0000 Received: from Gont ([68.98.2.101]) by fed1rmmtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02.01 201-2131-111-104-103-20040709) with ESMTP id <20040719233403.FKRR16783.fed1rmmtao04.cox.net@Gont> for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:34:03 -0400 To: Message-ID: <004e01c46de8$e2613c40$65026244@Gont> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040719093228.009d2df0@mail.earthlink.net> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 68.230.241.35 From: "Rizwan Virk" X-Yahoo-Profile: rizwanv MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:34:06 -0400 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a very interesting question - thanks for putting it out to the group! I was at a talk that UKL gave in phoenix a few months ago, and someone asked her: Is there a political statement or undertone ot the Earthsea books? Her answer was something like this (can't remember exact wording): Yes, the politicial statement is that everyone is NOT white - in fact, most of the main characters are not white -but are brown, very much like Native Americans. More than that, the white races in Earthsea are the "suspicious ones" - the Kargs, etc. She went further to say that she has some hope that the mini-series will be true to this because they supposedly hired the guy who did the "Dreamkeeper" mini-series on TV that was about Native American dreams and myths to "advise" on EarthSea. So much for that hope! Given that this was a key part of what UKL was trying to put out in the books, I would have to pick: Appalled, and I've lost *some* faith in the production However, since i'm such a big fan of the Earthsea books, and since I'm a brown guy who's used to seeing white guys/gals as heros in almost every single sci/fi fantasy movie, I don't really have much a choice ...so I guess i'll watch it anyways! -Riz -----Original Message----- From: David Bratman [mailto:dbratman@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 12:39 PM To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] New poll for the-ekumen >How does the fact that Ged is being >played by a white actor make you feel >about the Earthsea miniseries? I too consider this unanswerable. My feelings are somewhere in between these two: > o Appalled, and I've lost all faith in the production > o Not sure. I think the character's skin colour isn't essential, but the >casting choice makes me doubt the directors understanding of Le Guin's world. I think the character's skin color _is_ essential, but I still might hope for some good in other elements of the production. As a Tolkien fan bruised and battered by the egregious offenses of Peter Jackson, I still found some value and virtues in his films. (Did you notice that Ogion is being played by the increasingly distinguished black actor Danny Glover? I think he's whom you get if James Earl Jones is too old for the part. ) However, in another sense my answer would be: > o Doesn't matter to me since there's no way I'd be watching it anyway but not because I consider it a stinker I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. Instead, it's because the film will be on cable, and I don't get cable. I couldn't possibly imagine anything on television that would make cable fees worthwhile. - David Bratman Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jul 19 22:34:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.107]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:29:25 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1088-1090297761-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.28] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jul 2004 04:29:22 -0000 X-Sender: tirin@takver.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98556 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 04:29:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 04:29:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO apollo.linuxengine.net) (69.93.41.132) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 04:29:19 -0000 Received: from apollo.linuxengine.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apollo.linuxengine.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6K4TDxY008205 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:29:13 -0500 Received: (from neo@localhost) by apollo.linuxengine.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i6K4T8MH008197; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:29:08 -0500 Message-Id: <200407200429.i6K4T8MH008197@apollo.linuxengine.net> X-Authentication-Warning: apollo.linuxengine.net: neo set sender to tirin@takver.com using -f To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: WebMail X-IPAddress: 202.12.144.21 X-Spam-Score: 0 () X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.39 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.93.41.132 X-eGroups-From: "tirin" From: "tirin" X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:29:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder when the production will be available on video? for us internationals spread out around our pelagic world. Personally, I think Ged should have been played by a dark skinned Indonesian, Philippino or Polynesian actor. Maybe the film production should have followed LOTR and gone to Aotearoa (New Zealand) for casting. As Earthsea is geographically an archipeligo, it would have made sense to cast and film in an pelagic setting, maybe with a Maori and polynesian cast. Just a few thoughts. I think I'd opt for: o Not sure. I think the character's skin colour isn't essential, but the casting choice makes me doubt the directors understanding of Le Guin's world. Video is a different artform to Print. Casting Danny Glover as Ogion has made me more reticent in condemning the film before I see it. -- in solidarity Takver > Well, if those are the only choices I went with the 3rd one. If the > characterization is right, if the actor makes you believe that's Ged > there in that little box, then his skin color is kind of > inconsequential. Having said that, I think that it doesn't bode well > that they did not choose a Black, Native American or Hispanic actor > for the part. Certainly there must be qualified actors available. If > they didn't adhere to that what else will they get wrong? > > And I will definitely try to catch it. I live out in the boonies and > all I have is cable. > > -John from Oregon ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jul 20 09:22:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.91]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 22:37:17 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1089-1090301839-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.157] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jul 2004 05:37:20 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8818 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 05:37:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 05:37:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.84) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 05:37:18 -0000 Received: from user-38ldsii.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.242.82] helo=computer) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BmnJ9-0006S4-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 22:36:55 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.20040719223204.009d97c0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200407200429.i6K4T8MH008197@apollo.linuxengine.net> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.84 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 22:36:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 11:29 PM 7/19/2004 -0500, Takver wrote: >Video is a different artform to Print. However, the cases in which this is true are vastly outnumbered by the cases in which film-makers use this as an excuse to do whatever they want to, whether it's required in the translation of print to video, or even advisable at all. If a film-maker says of a change from the book, "I had to do this because film is a different medium from print," you should take it with the same skepticism with which a teacher takes a student saying, "The dog ate my homework." Dogs do eat homework. But not anywhere near as often as they're credited with it. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jul 20 09:22:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.86]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 01:06:11 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1090-1090310769-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.156] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jul 2004 08:06:09 -0000 X-Sender: tirin@takver.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51372 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 08:06:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 08:06:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO apollo.linuxengine.net) (69.93.41.132) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 08:06:08 -0000 Received: from apollo.linuxengine.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apollo.linuxengine.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6K8658N020749 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 03:06:05 -0500 Received: (from neo@localhost) by apollo.linuxengine.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i6K865xa020748; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 03:06:05 -0500 Message-Id: <200407200806.i6K865xa020748@apollo.linuxengine.net> X-Authentication-Warning: apollo.linuxengine.net: neo set sender to tirin@takver.com using -f To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: WebMail X-IPAddress: 202.12.144.21 X-Spam-Score: 0 () X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.39 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.93.41.132 X-eGroups-From: "tirin" From: "tirin" X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 03:06:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > At 11:29 PM 7/19/2004 -0500, Takver wrote: > >Video is a different artform to Print. > David Bratman said: > If a film-maker says of a change from the book, "I had to do this because > film is a different medium from print," you should take it with the same > skepticism with which a teacher takes a student saying, "The dog ate my > homework." Dogs do eat homework. But not anywhere near as often as > they're credited with it. Well put David! I was just trying to say there is a certain amount of creative licence in transfering any creative work from one medium to another. Ultimately, it comes down to whether the audience for the books thinks the spirit of the story has been captured in the new medium. And will those who have never read the books (and there will be many in this category) can appreciate the story. Unfotunately, I have seen more films based on novels that don't measure up to the original story, than ones that do. -- in solidarity Takver ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jul 20 09:23:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.102]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:11:22 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1091-1090329081-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.30] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jul 2004 13:11:21 -0000 X-Sender: sybillecumes@yahoo.ca X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62005 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 13:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 13:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 13:11:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.115] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jul 2004 13:09:01 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1090216774.463.80659.w87@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.79 From: "Sybille Cumes" X-Originating-IP: 24.200.210.31 X-Yahoo-Profile: sybillecumes MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 13:09:01 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > the-ekumen group: > > How does the fact that Ged is being > played by a white actor make you feel > about the Earthsea miniseries? > (Sorry to put words in people's mouths, > feel free to ignore the poll and say > what you actually feel on the list, I'm > just hoping to get some discussion > going. And my casting information comes > from imdb.com) > > o Doesn't matter to me since there's no way I'd be watching it anyway > o Appalled, and I've lost all faith in the production > o Not sure. I think the character's skin colour isn't essential, but the casting choice makes me doubt the directors understanding of Le Guin's world. > o I'm fine with it. > o Ged isn't white in the books? > I reply with the first answer. I won't be able to watch it even if I wanted it. I live outside the U.S. and I don't think it will come here, even if there is a lot of U.S. show that come over here. Annik ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jul 20 09:23:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.82]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:53:21 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1092-1090331562-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jul 2004 13:52:43 -0000 X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88724 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 13:52:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 13:52:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 13:52:40 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1Bmv2w-00035q-Ez for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:52:42 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20040720135242.GB9445@ccil.org> References: <200407200806.i6K865xa020748@apollo.linuxengine.net> In-Reply-To: <200407200806.i6K865xa020748@apollo.linuxengine.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:52:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tirin scripsit: > Well put David! I was just trying to say there is a certain amount of > creative licence in transfering any creative work from one medium to > another. Ultimately, it comes down to whether the audience for the > books thinks the spirit of the story has been captured in the new > medium. And will those who have never read the books (and there will be > many in this category) can appreciate the story. Tony Hillerman (who is on-topic here because he's the only mystery writer whose stories UKL reads -- says so right here on the cover) said something very interesting in connection with the two TV movies (mildly recommended) which have been made from his books (very much recommended!): "In order to make a movie from a book, the book must first be killed." And so even though in the books Joe Leaphorn is a sheep-camp Navajo who doesn't become a skeptic until he goes to college, in the movies he's an urban Navajo. It sharpens the contrast between him and Jim Chee, and puts it in the shorthand that a movie needs in order to get its point across in its strictly limited amount of time and space. > Unfotunately, I have seen more films based on novels that don't measure > up to the original story, than ones that do. Inevitably so. OTOH, I saw _Dances With Wolves_ before I read it (very rare for me) and I thought the book was complete shlock, whereas I thought the movie was quite good -- it concealed the book's total lack of writing style. -- He made the Legislature meet at one-horse John Cowan tank-towns out in the alfalfa belt, so that cowan@ccil.org hardly nobody could get there and most of http://www.reutershealth.com the leaders would stay home and let him go http://www.ccil.org/~cowan to work and do things as he pleased. --Mencken, Declaration of Independence ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jul 20 09:23:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.88]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:52:31 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1093-1090338750-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jul 2004 15:52:31 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94608 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 15:52:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 15:52:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.48) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 15:52:27 -0000 Received: from user-38ldvai.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.253.82] helo=computer) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BmwuQ-0005cY-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:52:02 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.20040720083528.009d09e0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20040720135242.GB9445@ccil.org> References: <200407200806.i6K865xa020748@apollo.linuxengine.net> <200407200806.i6K865xa020748@apollo.linuxengine.net> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.48 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:51:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 09:52 AM 7/20/2004 -0400, John Cowan wrote: >Tony Hillerman ... said ... >"In order to make a movie from a book, the book must first be killed." > >And so even though in the books Joe Leaphorn is a sheep-camp Navajo >who doesn't become a skeptic until he goes to college, in the movies >he's an urban Navajo. It sharpens the contrast between him and Jim >Chee, and puts it in the shorthand that a movie needs in order to >get its point across in its strictly limited amount of time and space. I confess myself unable to understand how making Ged white puts in shorthand important points of Le Guin's that could not otherwise be conveyed in the strictly limited amount of time available to a mini-series. (An amount of time, by the way, considerably greater than that available to a movie.) This act seems to me indistinguishable from the acts of artistic and marketing cowardice that have turned Ged white on the covers of so many editions of the Earthsea books: a caving in to naked prejudice on the untested assumption that the book won't "sell" with a dark-skinned hero. I confess myself also unable to understand how _The Lathe of Heaven_ was "killed" in order to make the first tv movie of it in 1980. It did trim the book to an extent, but it seemed to me quite faithful to both plot and spirit of its source, and its only serious flaw was the size of its production budget. This seems to me to put the lie to Mr. Hillerman's dictum. I have no idea whether the films of his books remain true to the spirit of the originals or not, as I've neither read his books nor seen the movies. But perhaps he's been spending too much time listening to film producers who tell him the dog ate their homework, as they secretly tear it up themselves. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jul 20 10:05:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.72]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:37:31 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1094-1090341451-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jul 2004 16:37:32 -0000 X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71190 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 16:37:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 16:37:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 16:37:30 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1BmxcZ-0006cO-1Y for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:37:39 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20040720163738.GC21316@ccil.org> References: <200407200806.i6K865xa020748@apollo.linuxengine.net> <200407200806.i6K865xa020748@apollo.linuxengine.net> <4.1.20040720083528.009d09e0@mail.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <4.1.20040720083528.009d09e0@mail.earthlink.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:37:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Bratman scripsit: > I confess myself unable to understand how making Ged white puts in > shorthand important points of Le Guin's that could not otherwise be > conveyed in the strictly limited amount of time available to a mini-series. It doesn't, not one bit, and I don't mean to imply that it does. See my earlier posting on my feelings about it (in summary: regrettable move, but I can live with it if there aren't *too* many more problems). > This act seems to me indistinguishable from the acts of artistic and > marketing cowardice that have turned Ged white on the covers of so many > editions of the Earthsea books: a caving in to naked prejudice on the > untested assumption that the book won't "sell" with a dark-skinned hero. Agreed. > I confess myself also unable to understand how _The Lathe of Heaven_ was > "killed" in order to make the first tv movie of it in 1980. It did trim > the book to an extent, but it seemed to me quite faithful to both plot and > spirit of its source, and its only serious flaw was the size of its > production budget. I haven't seen it since then, so I can't realistically comment (I remember being very impressed by it, though). > This seems to me to put the lie to Mr. Hillerman's dictum. I have no idea > whether the films of his books remain true to the spirit of the originals > or not, as I've neither read his books nor seen the movies. Whatsamatta, what's good enough for UKL isn't good enough for you? :-) > But perhaps he's been spending too much time listening to film > producers who tell him the dog ate their homework, as they secretly > tear it up themselves. In fact he said that to the screenwriter, who was quite daunted by the challenge of adapting the books, by way of encouragement. He has professed himself pleased with the results, which is more than many fans are. -- "How they ever reached any conclusion at all cowan@ccil.org> is starkly unknowable to the human mind." http://www.reutershealth.com --"Backstage Lensman", Randall Garrett http://www.ccil.org/~cowan ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 21 00:49:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n56.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.67.116]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 23:24:17 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1095-1090391060-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.31] by n56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2004 06:24:20 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49171 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2004 06:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2004 06:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2004 06:24:16 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.36.5d88bcd1 (25508) for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <36.5d88bcd1.2e2f65f8@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.9 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:23:52 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 412 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I read my first Tony Hillerman novel because UKLG reccommended him in Steering the Craft. Since then I've read every one I could get my hands on, so would you kindly tell me the names of the movies, so i can try to find them here in France? I am appalled that Ged is not played by a brown-skinned actor, though if I ever get the chance over here, I would like to see the production. Don't you think that "It wouldn't sell as well" is a pretty lame excuse in this day and age? There are several big name black actors out there who are good drawing cards, though of course the well-known ones are a bit too old to play Ged. It would be interesting to know what reason the producer gave. And how can Ogion be black and Ged not when they're both Gontishmen? Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 21 00:49:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.88]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:21:56 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1096-1090394515-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.28] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2004 07:21:56 -0000 X-Sender: melanie-simet@uiowa.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85532 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2004 07:21:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2004 07:21:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.220) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2004 07:21:54 -0000 Received: from sdn-ap-002neomahp0754.dialsprint.net ([63.186.10.246] helo=Goosey) by asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BnBQ7-0005wT-U1 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:21:44 -0700 To: Message-ID: <000001c46ef3$5daccad0$f60aba3f@Goosey> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <36.5d88bcd1.2e2f65f8@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: bbeb01fbc986a45094f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de264be9316527b51ad4b3405ceff835473c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.220 From: "Melanie Simet" X-Originating-IP: 63.186.10.246 X-Yahoo-Profile: go_seaward MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:21:33 -0500 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain In my opinion, it's not the casting of Ged that's the problem--it's the casting of Tenar in combination with the casting of Ged. Kristin Kreuk was specifically cast on other television shows because she looked "exotic." If both Ged and Tenar had been white, I would have been willing to give the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt because of the reasons you've all listed, that white actors are a "bigger draw" and whatnot (I don't agree, but if *they* do, that will make the casting different). But to specifically cast a nonwhite actress as Tenar? The White Lady of Gont? When Ged is white, and isn't supposed to be? I could have forgiven one or the other, but not both. Melanie -----Original Message----- From: judyldubois@aol.com [mailto:judyldubois@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 1:24 AM To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 412 I read my first Tony Hillerman novel because UKLG reccommended him in Steering the Craft. Since then I've read every one I could get my hands on, so would you kindly tell me the names of the movies, so i can try to find them here in France? I am appalled that Ged is not played by a brown-skinned actor, though if I ever get the chance over here, I would like to see the production. Don't you think that "It wouldn't sell as well" is a pretty lame excuse in this day and age? There are several big name black actors out there who are good drawing cards, though of course the well-known ones are a bit too old to play Ged. It would be interesting to know what reason the producer gave. And how can Ogion be black and Ged not when they're both Gontishmen? Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 21 07:58:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.76]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 05:50:57 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1097-1090414254-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.29] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2004 12:50:54 -0000 X-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99386 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2004 12:50:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2004 12:50:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2004 12:50:53 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1BnGY9-0003hK-7j for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 08:50:21 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20040721125021.GC14888@ccil.org> References: <36.5d88bcd1.2e2f65f8@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <36.5d88bcd1.2e2f65f8@aol.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 08:50:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 412 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit judyldubois@aol.com scripsit: > I read my first Tony Hillerman novel because UKLG reccommended him > in Steering the Craft. Since then I've read every one I could get > my hands on, so would you kindly tell me the names of the movies, > so i can try to find them here in France? "Skinwalkers", "Coyote Waits", and a few weeks ago "A Thief of Time". As far as I know, none are available on tape or DVD. > Don't you think that "It wouldn't sell as well" is a pretty lame > excuse in this day and age? It's about the only excuse possible. The television business has been aptly compared to the chicken business: the chickens get fed every day, but they only *think* this is done for their benefit. The true customers of television are of course the advertisers. -- Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out. --Arthur C. Clarke, "The Nine Billion Names of God" John Cowan ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 21 15:37:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.85]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:26:56 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1098-1090445210-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2004 21:26:56 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4829 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2004 21:26:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2004 21:26:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2004 21:26:48 -0000 Received: from du-040-0045.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.45] helo=oemcomputer) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BnObX-0005Cj-FE for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:26:24 +0100 Message-ID: <002401c46f69$e29b6320$2d749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <200407200806.i6K865xa020748@apollo.linuxengine.net> <200407200806.i6K865xa020748@apollo.linuxengine.net> <4.1.20040720083528.009d09e0@mail.earthlink.net> <20040720163738.GC21316@ccil.org> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.143 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:29:50 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As many others, unlikely to see it over here - seem to have heard the term mini series on the programme (damn my head is full of Buffy what's the name of the one on the very thin lawyer woman - only watching it to keep my kids company a few years ago honest) but don't really know what one is but only excuse I could think of, in casting a white person, is if there is an equal opportunities policy and the criteria for selection are really unbiased, e.g. written by Le Guin herself, and the person cast is by far the best applicant to fit those criteria but it's still like the way the virgin mary in nativity plays is so often a pretty blond girl whilst anyone looking jewish or black will be the inkeepers wife or perhaps the token wise person love Hannah ps mind you I couldn't help being proud when my pretty blond daughter was cast as the virgin mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Cowan" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen > David Bratman scripsit: > > > I confess myself unable to understand how making Ged white puts in > > shorthand important points of Le Guin's that could not otherwise be > > conveyed in the strictly limited amount of time available to a mini-series. > > It doesn't, not one bit, and I don't mean to imply that it does. See my > earlier posting on my feelings about it (in summary: regrettable move, > but I can live with it if there aren't *too* many more problems). > > > This act seems to me indistinguishable from the acts of artistic and > > marketing cowardice that have turned Ged white on the covers of so many > > editions of the Earthsea books: a caving in to naked prejudice on the > > untested assumption that the book won't "sell" with a dark-skinned hero. > > Agreed. > > > I confess myself also unable to understand how _The Lathe of Heaven_ was > > "killed" in order to make the first tv movie of it in 1980. It did trim > > the book to an extent, but it seemed to me quite faithful to both plot and > > spirit of its source, and its only serious flaw was the size of its > > production budget. > > I haven't seen it since then, so I can't realistically comment (I remember > being very impressed by it, though). > > > This seems to me to put the lie to Mr. Hillerman's dictum. I have no idea > > whether the films of his books remain true to the spirit of the originals > > or not, as I've neither read his books nor seen the movies. > > Whatsamatta, what's good enough for UKL isn't good enough for you? :-) > > > But perhaps he's been spending too much time listening to film > > producers who tell him the dog ate their homework, as they secretly > > tear it up themselves. > > In fact he said that to the screenwriter, who was quite daunted by > the challenge of adapting the books, by way of encouragement. He has > professed himself pleased with the results, which is more than many > fans are. > > -- > "How they ever reached any conclusion at all cowan@ccil.org> > is starkly unknowable to the human mind." http://www.reutershealth.com > --"Backstage Lensman", Randall Garrett http://www.ccil.org/~cowan > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 21 15:37:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.100]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 15:06:54 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1099-1090447418-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2004 22:03:39 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5113 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2004 22:03:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2004 22:03:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.49) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2004 22:03:36 -0000 Received: from user-38lc1f4.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.5.228] helo=computer) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BnPBX-0001Ki-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 15:03:35 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.20040721145921.009d8420@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <002401c46f69$e29b6320$2d749ed9@oemcomputer> References: <200407200806.i6K865xa020748@apollo.linuxengine.net> <200407200806.i6K865xa020748@apollo.linuxengine.net> <4.1.20040720083528.009d09e0@mail.earthlink.net> <20040720163738.GC21316@ccil.org> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.49 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 15:03:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 10:29 PM 7/21/2004 +0100, Hannah wrote: >it's still like the way the virgin mary in nativity plays is so often a >pretty blond girl whilst anyone looking jewish or black will be the >inkeepers wife or perhaps the token wise person Which reminds me that the most irreverent thought I had on watching "The Last Temptation of Christ" had nothing to do with the "Christ comes down from the cross and gets married" sequence. It was from an otherwise innocent scene with the disciples: If you see 13 guys in robes and beards and long hair walking in a group towards you, you can easily tell which one is Jesus. He's the blonde. The thought of a white Ged and an "ethnic" Tenar is beginning to make my head hurt. Please, make it stop. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 21 16:35:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.108]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 15:34:17 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1100-1090449257-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.29] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2004 22:34:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 84145 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2004 22:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2004 22:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.105) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2004 22:34:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ferhat@ceng.metu.edu.tr Received: from [66.218.66.120] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2004 22:33:14 -0000 X-Sender: ferhat@ceng.metu.edu.tr X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59687 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2004 22:05:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2004 22:05:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO postman.ceng.metu.edu.tr) (144.122.171.199) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2004 22:05:47 -0000 Received: from 81.215.52.60 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by postman.ceng.metu.edu.tr (8.12.11/8.12.10) with SMTP id i6LM9m3C016226 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 01:09:48 +0300 Message-ID: X-Mailer: BasiliX 1.1.1_fix1 -- http://www.basilix.org X-SenderIP: 81.215.52.60 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 144.122.171.199 From: Ali Ferhat Tamur X-Yahoo-Profile: alitamur X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 21 Jul 2004 22:33:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.105 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 01:09:48 EEST Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello from Turkey, Although Tenar is sometimes treated as a suspect person at Gont, I've never sensed any racial tension on Earthsea series, in fact I've never thought there are different races in Earthsea. Or is that just me being ignorant? (I don't see people of different races in my daily life, so perhaps that's the explanation) I thought Ged is dark skinned like a dark Italian or perhaps Turk (:-), and Tenar is fair like a German. Skin colors would not be a big deal for me but I have a related problem. I've just checked imdb, and Ged is played by a very handsome guy (Shawn Ashmore), and Tenar is played by a very beautiful woman (Kristin Kreuk). I think this is a bigger insult to the spirit of the series, neither Ged nor Tenar is ever distinguished by their beautiness. (If anything Ged should be ugly, imho) Ali Ferhat Tamur ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 22 18:33:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.92]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:11:24 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1101-1090527085-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.30] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2004 20:11:25 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94363 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2004 20:10:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jul 2004 20:10:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2004 20:10:45 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.154.3a8903ac (4394) for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:06:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <154.3a8903ac.2e31785d@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.144.208 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:06:53 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 413 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Dans un e-mail dat du 21/07/2004 23:59:26 Paris, Madrid (heure d't), the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com a crit : John wrote: The television business has been aptly compared to the chicken business: the chickens get fed every day, but they only *think* this is done for their benefit. The true customers of television are of course the advertisers. This reminds me of Flannery O'Connor who said that she wrote for "wingless chickens", comparing modern readers who have lost all appreciation of the mystical side of the universe to chickens specially bred for more meat and less bones. It's sad that the people producing the film were unable to understand the importance of Ged being black, as he is shown in the woodcuts that illustrated one of my copies. Ali said: Although Tenar is sometimes treated as a suspect person at Gont, I've never sensed any racial tension on Earthsea series, in fact I've never thought there are different races in Earthsea. Or is that just me being ignorant? (I don't see people of different races in my daily life, so perhaps that's the explanation) I thought Ged is dark skinned like a dark Italian or perhaps Turk (:-), and Tenar is fair like a German. It's stated quite clearly that almost all the people of Earthsea are brown-skinned and some are black, and the "bad guys" from the eastern islands are white, but that does not necessarily produce racial tension. We don't expect racial tension just because people have different colors of eyes, or hair, so why should we assume that different skin colors automatically produce clashes? Children who grow up in a mixed racial environment are usually over three years old before they notice that some people are one color and others are another. Or perhaps I should say before they notice that some of the people around them attach importance to differences that they had not paid any attention to. In TEHANU Tenar discusses how the brown Gontishmen reacted to her white skin with a great deal of insight. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 22 18:34:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.83]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:33:10 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1102-1090542792-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2004 00:33:12 -0000 X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2438 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2004 00:33:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2004 00:33:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.117) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2004 00:33:10 -0000 Received: from art (124.charlotte-24rh16rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.243.124]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <2004072300325511300qlfv2e>; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:32:56 +0000 Message-ID: <003001c4704b$d5fcf740$7cf34c0c@art> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.117 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:27:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I very much enjoyed Ali's addition to this thread. Hasten the day when there are leading actors that aren't "beautiful!" One of the many charms of UKL's work is that her characters have ears that stick out and turn red when they're embarassed, and other wonderfully nonheroic qualities. I will see the film when I'm able -- I'm in the US, but without cable. Is it possible that the director is trying for color-blind casting, or that Ged will be made up to be a respectable brown? Not that I think either is a particularly good idea; I'm trying, perhaps too hard, to offer benefit of the doubt. Melody ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ali Ferhat Tamur" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 9:09 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen > Hello from Turkey, > > Although Tenar is sometimes treated as a suspect person > at Gont, I've never sensed any racial tension on Earthsea > series, in fact I've never thought there are different races in > Earthsea. Or is that just me being ignorant? (I don't see > people of different races in my daily life, so perhaps that's the > explanation) I thought Ged is dark skinned like a dark Italian > or perhaps Turk (:-), and Tenar is fair like a German. > > Skin colors would not be a big deal for me but I have a > related problem. I've just checked imdb, and Ged is played by > a very handsome guy (Shawn Ashmore), and Tenar is played > by a very beautiful woman (Kristin Kreuk). I think this is a > bigger insult to the spirit of the series, neither Ged nor Tenar > is ever distinguished by their beautiness. (If anything Ged > should be ugly, imho) > > Ali Ferhat Tamur > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 22 20:50:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.106]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:22:40 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1103-1090552785-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2004 03:19:46 -0000 X-Sender: roddy.graham@virgin.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96883 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2004 03:19:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2004 03:19:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-out5.blueyonder.co.uk) (195.188.213.8) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2004 03:19:38 -0000 Received: from virgin.net ([62.31.135.57]) by smtp-out5.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 23 Jul 2004 04:19:22 +0100 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1090216774.463.80659.w87@yahoogroups.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jul 2004 03:19:22.0908 (UTC) FILETIME=[D9A9E5C0:01C47063] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 195.188.213.8 From: Roddy Graham X-Yahoo-Profile: rodbodtoo MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 04:17:54 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I voted "Ged isn't white in the books?". I did eventually cotton on to this detail (by reading an essay by UKL, I think), but not for many years. Aged about nine when I first read Earthsea, which was the approximate age when I first met a person who wasn't white. The illustrations for the Puffin edition were not accurate in this regard. I guess my response-as-of-right-now is "Huh! Typical TV numbskulls". chiz chiz rdg http://www.rodbod.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Jul 23 15:50:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.85]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:31:05 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1104-1090621867-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2004 22:31:07 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98243 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2004 22:31:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2004 22:31:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay1.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.141) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2004 22:31:04 -0000 Received: from du-040-0191.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.191] helo=oemcomputer) by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Bo8ZD-0009Tf-57 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 23:31:03 +0100 Message-ID: <002501c47105$40505c40$bf749ed9@oemcomputer> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.141 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 23:34:43 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] sheri s tepper Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recently picked up a couple of second hand books I hadn't met before from Sheri S Tepper - having enjoyed her books before. My opinion is apparently shared by UKL who is quoted identically on each cover 'Sheri S Tepper takes the mental risks that are the lifeblood of science fiction and all imaginative narrative' An excellent quote I thought Hannah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Jul 26 17:04:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.68]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:38:16 -0700 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jul 2004 23:38:18 -0000 X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12231 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2004 23:38:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jul 2004 23:38:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.116) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jul 2004 23:38:16 -0000 Received: from art (139.charlotte-02rh15rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.209.139]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2004072623375611200chhpqe>; Mon, 26 Jul 2004 23:37:57 +0000 Message-ID: <001901c47368$d750b440$8bd14c0c@art> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.116 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:32:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] New poll for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Y'all inspired me to take a look at the Earthsea cast at imdb . The actress who will play Tenar has played Snow White in a well-reviewed Canadian production of the story. She's a brunette, but light of complexion, so I was cheerfully thinking that maybe the casting agent and director aren't completely nuts. But the actor who will play Ged played The Iceman in The X-Men, and boy is he white! Prep-school, anyone-for-tennis?, jutting-jawed white bread WASP painfully white-o-rama white. Maybe the casting agent and director ARE completely nuts. Both actors have a history of doing sci-fi / fantasy film, for what that's worth. Melody ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roddy Graham" To: Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] New poll for the-ekumen > I voted "Ged isn't white in the books?". I did eventually cotton on to > this detail (by reading an essay by UKL, I think), but not for many > years. Aged about nine when I first read Earthsea, which was the > approximate age when I first met a person who wasn't white. The > illustrations for the Puffin edition were not accurate in this regard. > I guess my response-as-of-right-now is "Huh! Typical TV numbskulls". > > chiz chiz > > rdg > > http://www.rodbod.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Aug 01 23:20:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n56.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.67.116]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:55:21 -0700 Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Aug 2004 00:55:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 70434 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2004 00:55:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Aug 2004 00:55:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.90) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2004 00:55:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.172] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Aug 2004 00:55:19 -0000 X-Sender: nicoletheknitter@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7460 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2004 16:53:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2004 16:53:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web21426.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.232.45) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2004 16:53:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20040801165238.30533.qmail@web21426.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.50.20.66] by web21426.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 Aug 2004 09:52:38 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1090945259.184.74894.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.232.45 From: nicole X-Yahoo-Profile: nicoletheknitter X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 02 Aug 2004 00:55:16 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 09:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 417 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi! This morning, i started to read "Planet of Exile"- in this edition of the book, Ursula wrote a new introduction (the 1978 version). At the end of her introduction, i noticed, delightfully, that she had included a quote from my favorite poem, "The Waking" by Theodore Roethke. So i thought i would share the poem with you. Ursula quoted the very last line. Nicole The WakingTheodore Roethke The Waking Theodore Roethke poem --> I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow.I feel my fate in what I cannot fear.I learn by going where I have to go.We think by feeling. What is there to know?I hear my being dance from ear to ear.I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow.Of those so close beside me, which are you?God bless the Ground! I shall walk softly there,And learn by going where I have to go.Light takes the Tree; but who can tell us how?The lowly worm climbs up a winding stair;I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow.Great Nature has another thing to doTo you and me; so take the lively air,And, lovely, learn by going where to go.This shaking keeps me steady. I should know.What falls away is always. And is near.I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow.I learn by going where I have to go. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Aug 03 20:07:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n49.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.67.37]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 18:51:06 -0700 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by n49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Aug 2004 01:51:09 -0000 X-Sender: nicoletheknitter@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75556 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2004 01:51:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2004 01:51:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web21424.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.232.43) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Aug 2004 01:51:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20040804015003.56828.qmail@web21424.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.50.20.66] by web21424.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Aug 2004 18:50:03 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1091552128.249.56299.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.232.43 From: nicole X-Yahoo-Profile: nicoletheknitter MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 18:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 418 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my poem, my poem got butchered... okay, so here's a link- with the poem written in all it's lovely stanzas (and yes, the site is called plagiarist poetry!) http://plagiarist.com/poetry/2501/ nicole --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Aug 09 08:46:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.90]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:25:17 -0700 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Aug 2004 14:25:06 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98409 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2004 14:25:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Aug 2004 14:25:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.122) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Aug 2004 14:25:04 -0000 Received: from user-2injab9.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.169.105] helo=computer) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BuB5B-0002hz-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 09 Aug 2004 07:25:01 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.20040809072104.00a77100@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.122 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 07:23:47 -0700 Subject: [the-ekumen] Gifts Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to Amazon, "Gifts", UKL's new YA novel, is now available. Here's my review, scheduled for publication in The Mythopoeic Society's Mythprint: There's an old English folk song called "The Twelve Witches," whose subjects each had some specific weird talent, almost useless by itself but powerful in combination. I was reminded of it by the "gifts" of this book's title. In a rural society of landlords and tenant farmers, the lords have these supernatural talents that are passed on genetically in the male or female lines. Most of them are pretty gruesome. Gry, a teenaged girl, has a female gift of calling animals. This is normally used to assist hunters, but Gry loves animals and refuses to use her gift to kill, much to her mother's scorn. But Gry is not the protagonist of this story. This is Orrec, a boy of Gry's age who is the first-person narrator. His male line's talent is called the undoing, and is entirely nasty. What with the lords of neighboring estates having equally destructive gifts, and the border tenants on hair-trigger alert against cattle-rustling and similar tricks, this is not a stable society. Orrec's father, Canoc, must be constantly vigilant to protect his lands and tenants, and be ready to use his gift when necessary. And, of course, he trains his son to follow him. But Orrec finds he cannot control his gift, and as it is exercised through the eyes he has his father blindfold him until he matures. In the process, Orrec begins to reject altogether what his father finds a necessary evil. The story begins with Orrec and Gry hosting an outsider, a refugee from a more urban culture who do not have the gifts, and who fear those who do. This chapter sets up the situation; we then jump back in time as Orrec tells of his childhood and how he came to be blinded, then move quickly past the time of the opening chapter and on to the shattering conclusion. As a YA book it's fairly short, with few words per page, and makes compelling and urgent reading. There are death, loss, and destruction here. Le Guin is not always a plot-based writer, but even more than _The Other Wind_, this is a captivating story, and above all a tense, suspenseful one. But it is also a wonderful portrait of characters. Orrec loves both his parents, and they him. While his mother is an outsider by birth and remains a bit bewildered by the society she's joined, and while there is inevitable conflict between Orrec and his father over the gift, the remarkable thing is how well they get along and express their love. Some feminist writers seem content to criticize men without explaining what they think a good man would be like. (Let's not even get into what some male writers say about women.) Le Guin isn't like that. Orrec, poised between necessity and a kind of pacifism, is a beautifully modulated portrait of a conflicted boy, all the more wonderful for being written in first person by an elderly woman author. Even more remarkable to my mind is the portrait of Canoc, the father. Thoroughly masculine, he is tough, commanding, ruthless when necessary. But he knows when to be diplomatic with his neighbors, patient with his son, tender with his wife. There is one horrible moment when Orrec thinks his father has tricked him. But overall, this is a good and decent man but one who is not emasculated. As for Orrec and Gry, and their childhood friendship slowly opening to the possibility of romantic love, they are somewhere in between Owen and Natalie of _Very Far Away from Anywhere Else_ and Hugh and Irene of _The Beginning Place_ in the development of their relationship. Le Guin shows it as a dynamic, changing thing. They support each other - sometimes literally as Gry helps Orrec adjust to blindness - and learn together. She raises dogs, and gives him some for his own. In all this Le Guin writes with the greatest command and subtlety. I say, for instance, that Orrec loves his parents. But nowhere does Orrec say such a thing so baldly. Le Guin shows it instead. This is what a good writer does. It's reviewers who must crudely summarize. The names in _Gifts_ are ugly. This is probably deliberate. A tough, non-pretty society will be reflected in its names. Still, a big bullish man called Ogge Drum goes directly into the silly names bin. That's my only quibble with this remarkable story. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Aug 09 12:29:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.101]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:24:16 -0700 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Aug 2004 19:23:51 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9264 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2004 19:23:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Aug 2004 19:23:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m20.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.1) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Aug 2004 19:23:48 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id r.7d.552ecfc4 (18707) for ; Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7d.552ecfc4.2e492934@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 851 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.1 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:23:32 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 420 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thank you for a fascinating review [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Aug 21 20:06:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.82]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:30:21 -0700 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Aug 2004 19:09:39 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23289 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2004 19:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2004 19:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.126) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2004 19:09:37 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfj3h.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.204.113] helo=computer) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BybFB-0000Xy-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:09:37 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.20040821120520.0091aef0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.126 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:07:42 -0700 Subject: [the-ekumen] UKL on the election Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From a letter by one Brian Thomas on Eric Alterman's column at the MS-NBC website, at : >I've been out on the streets of Portland, Oregon five days of every week >registering progressive voters. >Today I met up with Portland's most famous author and anarchist, Ursula K. >LeGuin (The Dispossessed, The Left-Hand of Darkness, The Earth-Sea Trilogy, >etc.) while she was buying movie tickets at our Fox Towers theatre complex. >I asked her the same question I've asked thousands of our citizens: >"Do you want George Bush out of the White House?" >Ms. LeGuin flipped her purse around to reveal a Kerry/Edwards button. >"Wow, I'm thrilled to see an anarchist wearing a Kerry button. All my best >anarchist friends are voting for Kerry, but they're not ready to wear >buttons." And then Ursula smiled broadly as she became the first person I >have ever heard utter these words: >"Anybody but Nader." ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Sep 02 08:05:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n55.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.67.67]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 07:04:39 -0700 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by n55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2004 14:04:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 95637 invoked by uid 7800); 2 Sep 2004 14:04:39 -0000 Message-ID: <1094133879.30.95635.m23@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: 2 Sep 2004 14:04:39 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Poll results for the-ekumen Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following the-ekumen poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: How does the fact that Ged is being played by a white actor make you feel about the Earthsea miniseries? (Sorry to put words in people's mouths, feel free to ignore the poll and say what you actually feel on the list, I'm just hoping to get some discussion going. And my casting information comes from imdb.com) CHOICES AND RESULTS - Doesn't matter to me since there's no way I'd be watching it anyway, 2 votes, 10.53% - Appalled, and I've lost all faith in the production, 4 votes, 21.05% - Not sure. I think the character's skin colour isn't essential, but the casting choice makes me doubt the directors understanding of Le Guin's world., 10 votes, 52.63% - I'm fine with it., 2 votes, 10.53% - Ged isn't white in the books?, 1 votes, 5.26% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Oct 03 09:17:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 00:31:54 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2004 07:31:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2004 07:31:52 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24725 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2004 07:31:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2004 07:31:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grunt1.ihug.co.nz) (203.109.254.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2004 07:31:41 -0000 Received: from p96-nas11.akl.ihug.co.nz (hppav) [203.173.213.96] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CE0qJ-0005m3-00; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:31:40 +1300 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <1094133879.30.95635.m23@yahoogroups.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.109.254.41 From: "Aquila" X-Yahoo-Profile: aquila1nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 20:28:36 +1300 Subject: [the-ekumen] Earthsea looking more formulaic all the time Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just heard something about a magazine article that said that Ged and Arha have visions of each other throughout their lives and are around the same age when they meet. When combined with the casting decisions I really don't think I'm going to want to see it. Aquila (anyone heard anything more?) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Oct 06 07:30:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.41]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 05:28:26 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Oct 2004 12:28:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Oct 2004 12:28:27 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: schwelle@libero.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12514 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2004 12:28:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Oct 2004 12:28:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp20.libero.it) (193.70.192.147) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 2004 12:28:25 -0000 Received: from localhost (172.16.1.79) by smtp20.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 40E3F8E701260354 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:28:25 +0200 Received: from libero.it (172.16.1.87) by smtp2.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 40C7347000B17B30 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:28:38 +0200 Message-Id: X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "the-ekumen" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B27) X-type: 0 X-SenderIP: 157.138.217.35 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at libero.it serv1 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.70.192.147 From: "schwelle\@libero\.it" X-Yahoo-Profile: nonchiederci MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:28:24 +0200 Subject: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 424 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: "Aquila" > Subject: Earthsea looking more formulaic all the time > > Just heard something about a magazine article that said that Ged and Arha > have visions of each other throughout their lives and are around the same > age when they meet. When combined with the casting decisions I really don't > think I'm going to want to see it. > > Aquila (anyone heard anything more?) But... if what the magazine said is true, together with the (poor) choice of actors for the Ged and Tenar characters, should it be considered a "Earthsea" miniserie? Will UKL make complaints or is she going to ignore this deviation? I don't know how to express my feelings, but it seems to me like a love-story that will kill out every remainder of the tale that made "Earthsea" so enchanting. I can already see something like "Hercules" coming out of this production...brr. Paola/Paula ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: navighi gratis a 1.2 Mega, senza canone e costi di attivazione. Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Oct 06 14:12:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.48]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:28:41 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Oct 2004 19:28:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.94] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Oct 2004 19:28:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61526 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2004 19:28:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Oct 2004 19:28:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.119) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 2004 19:28:34 -0000 Received: from user-38ldt0o.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.244.24] helo=computer) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CFHP7-00074V-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:24:50 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.20041006121944.00953390@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.119 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:20:19 -0700 Subject: [the-ekumen] Le Guin on the Earthsea miniseries Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All she has to say about it is here: ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Oct 07 10:34:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:18:35 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2004 17:18:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2004 17:18:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 39886 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2004 17:18:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2004 17:18:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2004 17:18:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2004 17:18:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.166] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2004 17:18:03 -0000 X-Sender: anhdres@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49585 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2004 16:15:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2004 16:15:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53810.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.36.205) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2004 16:15:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20041007161533.33759.qmail@web53810.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.232.131.235] by web53810.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:15:33 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.36.205 From: anhdres X-Yahoo-Profile: anhdres X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 07 Oct 2004 17:18:03 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.16 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [the-ekumen] sadness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that's what I've feel once and again each time i read something new about the Earthsea miniseries. pure sadness. those are my favorite books of all time. period. i remember reading them years ago (i think i was like 11 the first tim) and re-reading several times, imagining each wall, stone and tree. that misterious fog, ged's face, the pale hands of tenar, the amazing sea. the smell of roke, and the cold of the death land. i studied filmmaking, and had the hope someday to achieve a Earthsea film. To be respectful to Ursula's writing. To the choices she made when doing it. To be faithful, and sincere. I had one moment of happiness, when I first heard someone was doing the miniseries. From then on, it's all deceptions. I hope it won't ruin that magical universe it has been to me to other who may not know it from reading. I'm not talking about the book vs. movie typical discussion. But Ged is not handsome. I'm afraid of the pain I'll suffer when watching it. I'm already wishing it was better. I hope I'm wrong. _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Oct 07 10:34:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:25:44 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2004 17:25:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.200] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2004 17:25:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16030 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2004 17:25:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2004 17:25:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.74) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2004 17:25:44 -0000 Received: from user-38lc0d2.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.1.162] helo=computer) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CFc1P-0007QH-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:25:44 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.20041007102356.009fa5d0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20041007161533.33759.qmail@web53810.mail.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.74 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:27:54 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] sadness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 09:15 AM 10/7/2004 -0700, anhdres wrote: >I hope it won't ruin that magical universe >it has been to me to other who may not know it from >reading. ... I'm >afraid of the pain I'll suffer when watching it. I'm >already wishing it was better. I hope I'm wrong. You sound like me three years ago facing the prospect of the "Lord of the Rings" films. Alas, I wasn't wrong. And I see less reason for hope for "Earthsea" than I did for that. Peter Jackson at least professed to care about the book. David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Oct 07 14:23:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.44]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:45:02 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2004 17:45:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2004 17:45:04 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: anhdres@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20198 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2004 17:44:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2004 17:44:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53807.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.36.202) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2004 17:44:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20041007174438.44482.qmail@web53807.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.232.131.235] by web53807.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:44:37 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <4.1.20041007102356.009fa5d0@mail.earthlink.net> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.36.202 From: anhdres X-Yahoo-Profile: anhdres MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] sadness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know, I didn't want to sound as one of those fans who despise all efforts to do something with his loved original piece, but I don't have faith on this one. Peter Jackson proved to be a director really involved with the proyect, and they played the truly-o-the-fans card well. I think the LOTR films are pretty well done. I can only hope te same for Earthsea. --- David Bratman wrote: > At 09:15 AM 10/7/2004 -0700, anhdres wrote: > >I hope it won't ruin that magical universe > >it has been to me to other who may not know it from > >reading. ... I'm > >afraid of the pain I'll suffer when watching it. > I'm > >already wishing it was better. I hope I'm wrong. > > You sound like me three years ago facing the > prospect of the "Lord of the > Rings" films. > > Alas, I wasn't wrong. And I see less reason for > hope for "Earthsea" than I > did for that. Peter Jackson at least professed to > care about the book. > > David Bratman > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Oct 07 14:23:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:49:27 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2004 17:49:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.159] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2004 17:49:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Riz@cambridgedocs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98765 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2004 17:49:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2004 17:49:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fe007.mail.lan) (69.25.74.34) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2004 17:49:22 -0000 Received: from MAIL007.mail.lan ([10.109.209.107]) by fe007.mail.lan with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:49:17 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A108C2C@MAIL007> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A108C2C@MAIL007> Thread-Topic: [the-ekumen] sadness Thread-Index: AcSskq9JRBOyIZIbSnyWcp+ILNMi/gAAo1BM To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2004 17:49:17.0346 (UTC) FILETIME=[F75E1820:01C4AC95] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.25.74.34 From: "Riz Virk" X-Yahoo-Profile: rizwanv MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:49:17 -0400 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] sadness Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I share your sadness about the eartshea mini-series ... one of the key things I liked about Ged was that he *wasn't* handsome .and also *wasn't* white ... Perhaps they will surprise me, though, because the Sci Fi channel did a good job in adapting Dune to a mini-series, and even the Lord of the Rings (at least the frist one) wasn't nearly as bad as I had feared (in fact it exceeded my low expectations). Still, there's something un-nerving about taking a world where everyone is brown/red (based very much on Native Americans) and casting a pretty white boy as the main character ... it would be like doing a movie about Native Americans and having the main character be white ... oh wait, there was a movie like that, Dances with Wolves ... and it even won best picture. At least they didn't *pretend* that Kevin Costner was an Indian ... -Riz ________________________________ From: David Bratman [mailto:dbratman@earthlink.net] Sent: Thu 10/7/2004 1:27 PM To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] sadness At 09:15 AM 10/7/2004 -0700, anhdres wrote: >I hope it won't ruin that magical universe >it has been to me to other who may not know it from >reading. ... I'm >afraid of the pain I'll suffer when watching it. I'm >already wishing it was better. I hope I'm wrong. You sound like me three years ago facing the prospect of the "Lord of the Rings" films. Alas, I wasn't wrong. And I see less reason for hope for "Earthsea" than I did for that. Peter Jackson at least professed to care about the book. David Bratman Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Oct 11 15:27:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.46]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:14:33 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Oct 2004 21:14:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Oct 2004 21:14:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: schwelle@libero.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4971 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2004 21:14:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Oct 2004 21:14:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.libero.it) (193.70.192.127) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2004 21:14:08 -0000 Received: from localhost (172.16.1.83) by smtp3.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 4153CC0C003D0A07 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:14:07 +0200 Received: from libero.it (172.16.1.82) by smtp1.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 40C72ED400BAE2AB for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:14:15 +0200 Message-Id: X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "the-ekumen" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B27) X-type: 0 X-SenderIP: 157.138.217.35 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at libero.it serv4 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.70.192.127 From: "schwelle\@libero\.it" X-Yahoo-Profile: nonchiederci MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:14:07 +0200 Subject: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 426 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: "Riz Virk" > Subject: RE: sadness > > Hi All, > > I share your sadness about the eartshea mini-series ... one of the key things I liked about Ged was that he *wasn't* handsome .and also *wasn't* white ... > > Perhaps they will surprise me, though, because the Sci Fi channel did a good job in adapting Dune to a mini-series, and even the Lord of the Rings (at least the frist one) wasn't nearly as bad as I had feared (in fact it exceeded my low expectations). > > Still, there's something un-nerving about taking a world where everyone is brown/red (based very much on Native Americans) and casting a pretty white boy as the main character ... it would be like doing a movie about Native Americans and having the main character be white ... oh wait, there was a movie like that, Dances with Wolves ... and it even won best picture. At least they didn't *pretend* that Kevin Costner was an Indian ... > > -Riz> Hello Riz On the question about the dark skin of the people in the Archipelago: I think it's overrated. After all, the most prominent issue isn't that there *is* a difference between the Karg and the Archipelagians? When I first read "A wizard of Earthsea" I had no inkling about the *race* of the people, since here in Italy skin hues go from dark tan to utterly pale to milk-and-roses: all what mattered was the difference that one could sense.. but that's more a cultural thing than a racial one, a sense of *foreignerness*, if a word can be applied. But I agree completely with your uneasy feeling about this mini: the fact that UKL wasn't consulted doesn't bode well. Paola/Paula ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: navighi gratis a 1.2 Mega, senza canone e costi di attivazione. Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Oct 11 21:10:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.20]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:52:22 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Oct 2004 02:52:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.95] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Oct 2004 02:52:25 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: anhdres@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45046 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2004 02:52:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Oct 2004 02:52:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53808.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.36.203) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Oct 2004 02:52:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20041012025224.76201.qmail@web53808.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.232.131.235] by web53808.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:52:24 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.36.203 From: anhdres X-Yahoo-Profile: anhdres MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 426 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello paola, i do think it's overrated too. i didn't mean to say it was a great deal indeed, in my original message. i just wanted them to be more accurate and less 'pop' on their vision of earthsea. i think that way of 'looking' at the trilogy will even be bad for bussiness. i think the LOTR trilogy has proven it's better to be respectful of the fan's visions on a loved text, or at least as much as it is possible. (you can't make everybody happy) in fact, i didn't realize the races too much when reading the older books, apart from the fact of the Kargad people being pale. there isn't a truly sense of distinction on earthsea, kind of what happens with language. almost all speak the same undestandable language, with their local variances, except from the mentioned Kargad people which would constitute (as you said) the 'others'. I'm from Argentina, and here the skins have a wide range of tones. many are descendants from Italians, as myself (half), a really mixture of inmigrant cultures. please excuse me for my english. > Hello Riz > On the question about the dark skin of the people in > the Archipelago: I think it's overrated. After all, > the most prominent issue isn't that there *is* a > difference between the Karg and the Archipelagians? > When I first read "A wizard of Earthsea" I had no > inkling about the *race* of the people, since here > in Italy skin hues go from dark tan to utterly pale > to milk-and-roses: all what mattered was the > difference that one could sense.. but that's more a > cultural thing than a racial one, a sense of > *foreignerness*, if a word can be applied. > But I agree completely with your uneasy feeling > about this mini: the fact that UKL wasn't consulted > doesn't bode well. > > Paola/Paula > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Libero ADSL: navighi gratis a 1.2 Mega, senza canone > e costi di attivazione. > Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Oct 14 14:43:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:15:29 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Oct 2004 21:15:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.158] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Oct 2004 21:15:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 38644 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2004 21:15:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Oct 2004 21:15:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 21:15:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Oct 2004 21:15:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.128] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Oct 2004 21:15:16 -0000 X-Sender: magictg@tiscalinet.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42500 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2004 19:22:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Oct 2004 19:22:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-relay-2.tiscali.it) (213.205.33.42) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 19:22:19 -0000 Received: from oemawmr3fqi9yi (62.11.5.238) by mail-relay-2.tiscali.it (7.1.021.3) id 415D98510032B921 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:22:18 +0200 Message-ID: <007701c4b223$1952e900$18170b3e@oemawmr3fqi9yi> To: References: <20041012025224.76201.qmail@web53808.mail.yahoo.com> Organization: Diego C Prodaccionz X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2741.2600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2742.200 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.205.33.42 From: "Diego C" X-Yahoo-Profile: moonwave77 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 14 Oct 2004 21:15:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.28 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:21:06 +0200 Subject: Re: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 426 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain hello paola/riz, I could seem a bit *boring*, but I feel a bit disappointed when something I like comes to the masses. It can be a bad thing, but I'm not that extreme about this matter. I think such a beautiful book needs a nice film adaptation, but nothing like epic struggles and battles like in lotr and dragonlance style..we are still talkin about ged "fighting" himself, not a couple of heros against thousands of orcs =) It should be more introspective and deep than "good looking", if you know what I mean. LOTR has a precise race story [elves and dwarves, and events like the "five army battle" ending with an armistice..making us all thinking about the power of words over weapons ;)], story I didn't feel in Ursula's works. In my opinion, The keyword of Earthsea is what ancient Greek called "arch", the Beginning, the Ancient Language..so it all mixes up in a single thing, even if everything has got 2 sides [the well-known taoist theory about this book]. So no problem about races representation, but I wish it keeps the closest possible to original text obviously. Books leave us fantasy to imagine, films give us only a way :/ About the mini and don't consulting ukl: so bad, I think no one knows Earthsea better than her ;) @paola: btw, do you know about italian releases of this book? i read the trilogy ok, but i had problems finding tehanu [had to read it in spanish when I was in madrid last year] and other ursula books. please lmk if you know anything :) I apologize for my english, hope it is all clear for you. My 2 cents Diego :) ----- Original Message ----- From: anhdres To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 4:52 AM Subject: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 426 hello paola, i do think it's overrated too. i didn't mean to say it was a great deal indeed, in my original message. i just wanted them to be more accurate and less 'pop' on their vision of earthsea. i think that way of 'looking' at the trilogy will even be bad for bussiness. i think the LOTR trilogy has proven it's better to be respectful of the fan's visions on a loved text, or at least as much as it is possible. (you can't make everybody happy) in fact, i didn't realize the races too much when reading the older books, apart from the fact of the Kargad people being pale. there isn't a truly sense of distinction on earthsea, kind of what happens with language. almost all speak the same undestandable language, with their local variances, except from the mentioned Kargad people which would constitute (as you said) the 'others'. I'm from Argentina, and here the skins have a wide range of tones. many are descendants from Italians, as myself (half), a really mixture of inmigrant cultures. please excuse me for my english. > Hello Riz > On the question about the dark skin of the people in > the Archipelago: I think it's overrated. After all, > the most prominent issue isn't that there *is* a > difference between the Karg and the Archipelagians? > When I first read "A wizard of Earthsea" I had no > inkling about the *race* of the people, since here > in Italy skin hues go from dark tan to utterly pale > to milk-and-roses: all what mattered was the > difference that one could sense.. but that's more a > cultural thing than a racial one, a sense of > *foreignerness*, if a word can be applied. > But I agree completely with your uneasy feeling > about this mini: the fact that UKL wasn't consulted > doesn't bode well. > > Paola/Paula [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Oct 15 10:39:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.39]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:45:34 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Oct 2004 15:45:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Oct 2004 15:45:35 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Riz@cambridgedocs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49667 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2004 15:45:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Oct 2004 15:45:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fe007.mail.lan) (69.25.74.34) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Oct 2004 15:45:33 -0000 Received: from MAIL007.mail.lan ([10.109.209.107]) by fe007.mail.lan with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:45:31 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A183BE8@MAIL007> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 426 Thread-Index: AcSyMvBuBj3o1hiGSjGoey6ck0ZxHAAmR5Ng To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2004 15:45:31.0422 (UTC) FILETIME=[007A03E0:01C4B2CE] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.25.74.34 From: "Riz Virk" X-Yahoo-Profile: rizwanv MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:45:07 -0400 Subject: RE: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 426 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain hello folks, > feel a bit disappointed when something I like comes to the masses. It can be a bad thing, but I'm not that extreme about this matter. > It should be more introspective and deep than "good looking", if you know what I mean. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly! It's difficult to get an introspective quality to a movie, though a longer movie, or mini-series can sometimes do this. I thought that the Dune mini-series did a reasonably good job of balancing the two... > On the question about the dark skin of the people in > the Archipelago: I think it's overrated Interestingly enough,race *is* a significant issue in Earthsea for UKL ... at least from what she's said publicly, and for american audiences. I was recently at a talk by UKL in Phoenix and she was asked the question , "Is there a political subtext to the Eartsea books." She answered, "Yes, there is. It's that the good guys aren't all white." She went on to explain that unlike most books where the heros are assumed to be white, the Archipelagans (sp?) were modeled after Native Americans in both their skin tone, complexion, etc. She also went on to explain that those that were white (the northerners, Kargs and Oskillians, etc.) were somewhat suspect, and she did this on purpose because (certianly not most children's books in the US - which is where it was originally marketed, though I think we can all agree that Earthsea is much more than a series of children's books!) most stories didn't present this perspective. Finally she said that she was quite disappointed that many of the book covers didn't recognize this and because they were marketed primarily to white audiences, they would make Ged look white on the cover... This plays heavily into the contrast in complexion (and reace and culture) between Tenar and Ged.... I am quite disappointed that they chose a white pretty-boy actor because, in order to make it more "acceptable" to white audiences and (presumably - though I haven't read the script) to introduce a love story between the two... it reminds me of Dances with Wolves, another popular movie product of our culture, where rather than have Kevin Costner's character fall in love with a Native American, there "just magically happened to be" a white woman in the Sioux Native American tribe for him to fall in love with! A good decision from a marketing perspective because Co had a good idea of what would and wouldn't appeal to many white Americans, particularly in the south and the midwest ...but a terrible decision from an artistic point of view, at least I think.. Note that the Earthsea books and the mini-series were originally written and marketed in the US, and you cannot over-estimate the importance of race issues, particularly amongs a majority of the population... ------------------- Rizwan Virk CTO CambridgeDocs riz@cambridgedocs.com riz@alum.mit.edu 617-905-3518 -----Original Message----- From: Diego C [mailto:magictg@tiscalinet.it] Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 3:21 PM To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 426 hello paola/riz, I could seem a bit *boring*, but I feel a bit disappointed when something I like comes to the masses. It can be a bad thing, but I'm not that extreme about this matter. I think such a beautiful book needs a nice film adaptation, but nothing like epic struggles and battles like in lotr and dragonlance style..we are still talkin about ged "fighting" himself, not a couple of heros against thousands of orcs =) It should be more introspective and deep than "good looking", if you know what I mean. LOTR has a precise race story [elves and dwarves, and events like the "five army battle" ending with an armistice..making us all thinking about the power of words over weapons ;)], story I didn't feel in Ursula's works. In my opinion, The keyword of Earthsea is what ancient Greek called "arch", the Beginning, the Ancient Language..so it all mixes up in a single thing, even if everything has got 2 sides [the well-known taoist theory about this book]. So no problem about races representation, but I wish it keeps the closest possible to original text obviously. Books leave us fantasy to imagine, films give us only a way :/ About the mini and don't consulting ukl: so bad, I think no one knows Earthsea better than her ;) @paola: btw, do you know about italian releases of this book? i read the trilogy ok, but i had problems finding tehanu [had to read it in spanish when I was in madrid last year] and other ursula books. please lmk if you know anything :) I apologize for my english, hope it is all clear for you. My 2 cents Diego :) ----- Original Message ----- From: anhdres To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 4:52 AM Subject: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 426 hello paola, i do think it's overrated too. i didn't mean to say it was a great deal indeed, in my original message. i just wanted them to be more accurate and less 'pop' on their vision of earthsea. i think that way of 'looking' at the trilogy will even be bad for bussiness. i think the LOTR trilogy has proven it's better to be respectful of the fan's visions on a loved text, or at least as much as it is possible. (you can't make everybody happy) in fact, i didn't realize the races too much when reading the older books, apart from the fact of the Kargad people being pale. there isn't a truly sense of distinction on earthsea, kind of what happens with language. almost all speak the same undestandable language, with their local variances, except from the mentioned Kargad people which would constitute (as you said) the 'others'. I'm from Argentina, and here the skins have a wide range of tones. many are descendants from Italians, as myself (half), a really mixture of inmigrant cultures. please excuse me for my english. > Hello Riz > On the question about the dark skin of the people in > the Archipelago: I think it's overrated. After all, > the most prominent issue isn't that there *is* a > difference between the Karg and the Archipelagians? > When I first read "A wizard of Earthsea" I had no > inkling about the *race* of the people, since here > in Italy skin hues go from dark tan to utterly pale > to milk-and-roses: all what mattered was the > difference that one could sense.. but that's more a > cultural thing than a racial one, a sense of > *foreignerness*, if a word can be applied. > But I agree completely with your uneasy feeling > about this mini: the fact that UKL wasn't consulted > doesn't bode well. > > Paola/Paula [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Oct 15 10:39:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.36]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:52:38 -0700 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Oct 2004 16:52:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.94] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Oct 2004 16:52:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4209 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2004 16:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Oct 2004 16:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratanakiri.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.37) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Oct 2004 16:52:36 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by ratanakiri.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id i9FGmiPj012993 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:50:35 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20041015165034.GA5351@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A183BE8@MAIL007> In-Reply-To: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A183BE8@MAIL007> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.246.141.37 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:50:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 426 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Riz Virk scripsit: > it reminds me of Dances with Wolves, another popular movie product of > our culture, where rather than have Kevin Costner's character fall in > love with a Native American, there "just magically happened to be" > a white woman in the Sioux Native American tribe for him to fall in > love with! A good decision from a marketing perspective because Co had > a good idea of what would and wouldn't appeal to many white Americans, > particularly in the south and the midwest ...but a terrible decision > from an artistic point of view, at least I think.. That plot point was already present, for better or worse, in the underlying novel (one of the few cases I know of where a bad novel made a decent movie). In the book, BTW, the Indians were Comanches; I suppose this was changed because it would be impossible to find enough Comanche-speaking actors (there were only about 800 people speaking Comanche as of the 1990 U.S. census, most of them elderly, though some language restoration work has been done since). -- Don't be so humble. You're not that great. John Cowan --Golda Meir jcowan@reutershealth.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Oct 16 19:04:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.45]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 01:48:27 -0700 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2004 08:48:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2004 08:48:27 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26162 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2004 08:48:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2004 08:48:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m17.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.207) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2004 08:48:25 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id r.cf.1961cfea (25098) for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 04:48:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.207 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 04:48:21 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 428 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i wish to comment on how ursula k le guin uses race in the earthsea stories. i've hesitated to speak out, because it's something that arouses very deep and personal feelings in me, and perhaps in others. i myself come from old kentucky pioneer stock, mostly english and irish. i married a man who is half french and half cameroonian, educated and raised as a frenchman. his experience was unlike that of many african americans, in that the french accepted him as french because he talked and thought like them. and cameroonians generally considered him as "white", but this was more a social category than anything else. a senagalese who was a former officer in the french army was also considered "white" as were blacks from Martinique. growing up un this context, with people in their immediate family of all different shades, living among africans, greeks, italians, dutch and french, my children did not seem to attach any importance to skin color until they were three or four years old. and when they did start asking questions, it inevitably came from comments made by adults that they didn't understand. i thought it sad to watch them realize that there were categories they had been unaware of and trying to figure out who was what. there were boundaries that they are still trying to figure out, since they were definitely white in africa, borderline cases in france where most people think they're north african, and definitely black in the states. when i first read A WIZARD OF EARTHSEA and realized that Ged was brown, i thought it was wonderful that the author didn't just automatically, unthinkingly make him white. most people on this earth are brown, and it was refreshing in the early 1970's to discover that the bad guys were white. When i read TEHANU, where the race question is developed more explicitely, in Tenar's thoughts on what it was like to be the only white-skinned person in a brown community, i felt the basic attitude af the gontish was healthy, and similar to that my husband encountered among the french. he might look a bit different, but he was accepted as himself. (although he did feel that to be accepted as an equal he first had to prove he was better than the other guy) of course le guin doesn't get up on a soapbox and preach, so many readers can say that the skin color question in her books doesn't seem essential. I think it's sad that they can so easily dismiss what i thought was a very effective way of demonstrating that skins can be brown without making their owners outcasts, that it's possible, in a fantasy world, to imagine a society that doesn't classify people according to the color of their skin. judith dubois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Oct 16 19:06:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:06:58 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2004 18:04:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2004 18:04:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14607 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2004 18:04:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2004 18:04:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.116) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2004 18:04:35 -0000 Received: from art (160.charlotte-18rh15rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.233.160]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2004101618034311200lt0t8e>; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:03:43 +0000 Message-ID: <006801c4b3aa$c6e19020$f2f04c0c@art> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.116 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:00:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 428 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I want to thank Judith for her brave and thoughtful note. As she testifies, race is still all too important in America. I live in North Carolina and am not yet 50, and people my age attended segregated elementary schools. In the little town my family moved to in 1968 there was still a billboard inviting everyone (well, white men) to "Join and support the United Klans of America. Help fight communism and intergration." (Yes, they misspelled "integration".) The Ku Klux Klan, for those of you fortunate enough not to know about it, is a white terrorist organization founded just after the Civil War and still existing in parts of the South and the Midwest. In 1968, all the important businessmen, civic leaders, and police officers in that town belonged to it. By the mid-seventies the sign was finally gone and all the schools in the area were finally integrated, but of course that was just the beginning of the possibility of real equality, of race beginning not to matter. We have come a long way since 1968 in terms of civil rights and respect for difference in this society, but we still have a long way to go. It took courage for UKL to write about a brown-skinned people and a brown-skinned hero in the seventies. Apparently the film makers don't have that kind of courage in 2004. I'm really disappointed, because we still need all the help we can get in unlearning racism in the United States. Melody ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 4:48 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 428 > > i wish to comment on how ursula k le guin uses race in the earthsea stories. > i've hesitated to speak out, because it's something that arouses very deep > and personal feelings in me, and perhaps in others. i myself come from old > kentucky pioneer stock, mostly english and irish. i married a man who is > half french and half cameroonian, educated and raised as a frenchman. his > experience was unlike that of many african americans, in that the french accepted > him as french because he talked and thought like them. and cameroonians > generally considered him as "white", but this was more a social category than > anything else. a senagalese who was a former officer in the french army was > also considered "white" as were blacks from Martinique. > > growing up un this context, with people in their immediate family of all > different shades, living among africans, greeks, italians, dutch and french, my > children did not seem to attach any importance to skin color until they were > three or four years old. and when they did start asking questions, it > inevitably came from comments made by adults that they didn't understand. i > thought it sad to watch them realize that there were categories they had been > unaware of and trying to figure out who was what. there were boundaries that they > are still trying to figure out, since they were definitely white in africa, > borderline cases in france where most people think they're north african, and > definitely black in the states. > > when i first read A WIZARD OF EARTHSEA and realized that Ged was brown, i > thought it was wonderful that the author didn't just automatically, > unthinkingly make him white. most people on this earth are brown, and it was refreshing > in the early 1970's to discover that the bad guys were white. When i read > TEHANU, where the race question is developed more explicitely, in Tenar's > thoughts on what it was like to be the only white-skinned person in a brown > community, i felt the basic attitude af the gontish was healthy, and similar to > that my husband encountered among the french. he might look a bit different, > but he was accepted as himself. (although he did feel that to be accepted as > an equal he first had to prove he was better than the other guy) > > of course le guin doesn't get up on a soapbox and preach, so many readers > can say that the skin color question in her books doesn't seem essential. I > think it's sad that they can so easily dismiss what i thought was a very > effective way of demonstrating that skins can be brown without making their owners > outcasts, that it's possible, in a fantasy world, to imagine a society that > doesn't classify people according to the color of their skin. > > judith dubois > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Oct 17 09:05:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 05:42:19 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2004 12:42:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.158] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2004 12:42:20 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29123 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2004 12:42:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Oct 2004 12:42:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay2.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.142) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Oct 2004 12:42:17 -0000 Received: from du-040-0140.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.140] helo=oemcomputer) by relay2.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CJAMV-000LIc-Cp for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:42:12 +0100 Message-ID: <003001c4b447$48d039a0$8c749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.142 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:46:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 428 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am currently rereading the 'Birthday of the World' stories. Something interesting that UKL is doing in a number of these stories is trying to think - really think deeply and compassionately - about how it feels to be male in a society which disadvantages males. This is similar to her treatment of Tenar who is as Judy comments the disadvantaged white person in a brown society - also an immigrant who has to put aside everything from her background and culture to learn to belong on Gont. She sees this coming when Ged takes her away in The Tombs of Atuan and she says 'all I know is of no use now, and I don't know anything else. I will try to learn'. UKL turns the tables but she doesn't do it with a vengeful spirit, rather to spread the light. As Havzhiva learns in 'A man of the people' in 4 ways to forgiveness 'local knowledge is not partial knowledge, there are different ways of knowing'. And in 4 Ways to Forgiveness again she turns the tables in racial terms in Werel/Yeowe, with the Black owners and the White 'dusty' assets. Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 428 > > i wish to comment on how ursula k le guin uses race in the earthsea stories. > i've hesitated to speak out, because it's something that arouses very deep > and personal feelings in me, and perhaps in others. i myself come from old > kentucky pioneer stock, mostly english and irish. i married a man who is > half french and half cameroonian, educated and raised as a frenchman. his > experience was unlike that of many african americans, in that the french accepted > him as french because he talked and thought like them. and cameroonians > generally considered him as "white", but this was more a social category than > anything else. a senagalese who was a former officer in the french army was > also considered "white" as were blacks from Martinique. > > growing up un this context, with people in their immediate family of all > different shades, living among africans, greeks, italians, dutch and french, my > children did not seem to attach any importance to skin color until they were > three or four years old. and when they did start asking questions, it > inevitably came from comments made by adults that they didn't understand. i > thought it sad to watch them realize that there were categories they had been > unaware of and trying to figure out who was what. there were boundaries that they > are still trying to figure out, since they were definitely white in africa, > borderline cases in france where most people think they're north african, and > definitely black in the states. > > when i first read A WIZARD OF EARTHSEA and realized that Ged was brown, i > thought it was wonderful that the author didn't just automatically, > unthinkingly make him white. most people on this earth are brown, and it was refreshing > in the early 1970's to discover that the bad guys were white. When i read > TEHANU, where the race question is developed more explicitely, in Tenar's > thoughts on what it was like to be the only white-skinned person in a brown > community, i felt the basic attitude af the gontish was healthy, and similar to > that my husband encountered among the french. he might look a bit different, > but he was accepted as himself. (although he did feel that to be accepted as > an equal he first had to prove he was better than the other guy) > > of course le guin doesn't get up on a soapbox and preach, so many readers > can say that the skin color question in her books doesn't seem essential. I > think it's sad that they can so easily dismiss what i thought was a very > effective way of demonstrating that skins can be brown without making their owners > outcasts, that it's possible, in a fantasy world, to imagine a society that > doesn't classify people according to the color of their skin. > > judith dubois > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Oct 20 07:09:17 2004 Received: from n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.44]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:20:15 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Oct 2004 13:20:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.193] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Oct 2004 13:20:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: schwelle@libero.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17811 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2004 13:20:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Oct 2004 13:20:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.libero.it) (193.70.192.52) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Oct 2004 13:20:14 -0000 Received: from localhost (172.16.1.84) by smtp2.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 40C7347601B5759A for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:20:41 +0200 Received: from libero.it (172.16.1.88) by smtp2.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 40C7347000CDC0A5 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:20:40 +0200 Message-Id: X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "the-ekumen" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B27) X-type: 0 X-SenderIP: 157.138.217.35 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at libero.it serv5 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.70.192.52 From: "schwelle\@libero\.it" X-Yahoo-Profile: nonchiederci MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:20:11 +0200 Subject: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 431 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I apologize to Judith, to Melody, to whoever was offended by my words. I'm sorry. Having had a quite sheltered life my view was more focused on the second part of Hanna observation - about background and culture differences. This is similar to her > treatment of Tenar who is as Judy comments the disadvantaged white person in > a brown society - also an immigrant who has to put aside everything from her > background and culture to learn to belong on Gont. She sees this coming > when Ged takes her away in The Tombs of Atuan and she says 'all I know is of > no use now, and I don't know anything else. I will try to learn'. > Hannah Sorry Paola/Paula ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: navighi gratis a 1.2 Mega, senza canone e costi di attivazione. Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Oct 22 12:14:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.50]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:55:50 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 17:55:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.200] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 17:55:51 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 54170 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2004 17:55:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Oct 2004 17:55:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2004 17:55:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 17:54:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.132] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 17:54:56 -0000 X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99331 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2004 11:30:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Oct 2004 11:30:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.32) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2004 11:30:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 11:30:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.121] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 11:30:14 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.32 From: "laksov" X-Originating-IP: 212.239.83.142 X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 22 Oct 2004 17:54:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.43 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:30:13 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Hello Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everybody, I found this yahoo groups just wandering trhough the internet... I started trying google with words like Shevek, Anarres and so on, and finally I found this group. It seems to be interesting. Mmh, my more recent UKL short story read: Dragonfly. First one (ages ago): maybe Dispossessed. What else? Well, glad that such a group exists. Hope to be able to use a good enough English ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Oct 22 13:22:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.50]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:21:12 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 20:21:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.192] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 20:21:14 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13985 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2004 20:21:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Oct 2004 20:21:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2004 20:21:12 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id r.d8.17b025b5 (3948) for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.157.37 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:20:43 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 432 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dear paula, i don't think anyone was offended by your remarks. i realize that le guin's treatment of racial differences is subtle, even discreet, but at the same time, if you're tuned in to that theme, very powerful. judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Oct 22 14:07:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.45]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:50:26 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 20:50:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.156] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 20:50:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Riz@cambridgedocs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32527 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2004 20:50:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Oct 2004 20:50:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fe007.mail.lan) (69.25.74.34) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2004 20:50:24 -0000 Received: from MAIL007.mail.lan ([10.109.209.107]) by fe007.mail.lan with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:50:23 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A1F872B@MAIL007> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: looking for hardcore earthsea fans to help edit Earthsea manuscript ... Thread-Index: AcS4eIuqI8pbw1PhRrSqoQhUrNFukAAACRsg To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Oct 2004 20:50:23.0907 (UTC) FILETIME=[C089F730:01C4B878] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.25.74.34 From: "Riz Virk" X-Yahoo-Profile: rizwanv MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:50:21 -0400 Subject: [the-ekumen] looking for hardcore earthsea fans to help edit Earthsea manuscript ... Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, I'm looking for a few "hardcore" Earthsea fans to help proofread / validate a new eBook that I've created, called "To Light A Candle: The Unofficial Earthsea Companion" It's an A-Z dictionary of names, people, places in the Earthsea world, with a brief description of each, from A (example: Aihal , which is Ogion's true name ) to Z (actually Y, Yevaud, the dragon of Pendor is one of the last entries). I would also be interested in anyone who has Earthsea artwork that they would be willing to contribute. Of course, those who help validate /proofread / edit it will get a copy and will get acknowledgements and exposure in the book itself! Thanks! Riz ------------------- Rizwan Virk CTO CambridgeDocs riz@cambridgedocs.com riz@alum.mit.edu 617-905-3518 Community email addresses: Post message: Earthsea@onelist.com Subscribe: Earthsea-subscribe@onelist.com Unsubscribe: Earthsea-unsubscribe@onelist.com List owner: Earthsea-owner@onelist.com Shortcut URL to this page: http://www.onelist.com/community/Earthsea Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Zooba, Latest Hardcover Bestsellers - Always Free Shipping _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earthsea/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Earthsea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Oct 22 22:47:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.49]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:44:24 -0700 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2004 01:44:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.98] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2004 01:44:26 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5981 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2004 01:44:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2004 01:44:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.115) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2004 01:44:24 -0000 Received: from art (13.charlotte-21rh15-16rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.238.13]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2004102301442111100ijos7e>; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:44:22 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c4b8a2$265c1c40$0dee4c0c@art> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.115 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:46:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 431 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Paola, Heavens, I wasn't offended! It will be a great day when race is no longer a big deal, and it's wonderful that some of us already live there. Best, Melody ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "the-ekumen" Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 9:20 AM Subject: Re:[the-ekumen] Digest Number 431 > > I apologize to Judith, to Melody, to whoever was offended by my words. > I'm sorry. > Having had a quite sheltered life my view was more focused on the second part of Hanna observation - about background and culture differences. > > This is similar to her > > treatment of Tenar who is as Judy comments the disadvantaged white person in > > a brown society - also an immigrant who has to put aside everything from her > > background and culture to learn to belong on Gont. She sees this coming > > when Ged takes her away in The Tombs of Atuan and she says 'all I know is of > > no use now, and I don't know anything else. I will try to learn'. > > Hannah > > Sorry > Paola/Paula > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Libero ADSL: navighi gratis a 1.2 Mega, senza canone e costi di attivazione. > Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Oct 23 14:50:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:02:59 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2004 18:03:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2004 18:03:00 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 36273 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2004 18:02:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2004 18:02:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.24) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2004 18:02:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2004 18:02:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.135] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2004 18:02:41 -0000 X-Sender: deej3464@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13015 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2004 13:00:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2004 13:00:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2004 13:00:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2004 13:00:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.140] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2004 13:00:37 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.16 From: "David" X-Originating-IP: 4.27.127.56 X-Yahoo-Profile: namdc X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 23 Oct 2004 18:02:40 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.24 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:00:37 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] 'Earthsea' May or may not be terrible. . . Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . . . but nothing could be as bad as the more recent 'Lathe of Heaven'. I had read nothing of that one before watching it. . . well, I didn't actually watch the whole thing. . .and I was hopeful, considering the cast. As for 'Earthsea', I'm hopeful, but sceptical. Shawn Ashmore is too pretty ( and too anglo ) for a true translation, but I don't know that Ged wasn't handsome, in a rugged sort of way. And he was very charismatic. There are any number of actors who are deemed 'handsome', though in fact they are just average; but they have that draw that makes you want to watch them ( Spencer Tracy & Dustin Hoffman come to mind ). The absence of the scar, which signified so many things, is what disappoints me about his appearance. Tenar is my favorite character aside Ged, and that, too, seems to have been completely re-written. And Isabella Rossellini as Thar is beyond me. A bit too gorgeous for what the part is meant to be. Putting these criticisms aside, I'm willing to take a look at it, in the hopes that perhaps, just perhaps, they will keep some of the intention of the stories. The fact that they cast the film with a lot of very western looking folk I can accept, though Im disappointed by it. After all, the ideal is that race, etc. shouldn't matter, isn't it? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Oct 28 11:45:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:38:52 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 18:38:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.160] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 18:38:53 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 6915 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2004 18:38:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2004 18:38:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 2004 18:38:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 18:36:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.120] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 18:36:51 -0000 X-Sender: antreed88@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87010 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2004 17:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2004 17:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 2004 17:32:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 17:30:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.154] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 17:30:54 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.36 From: "antreed88" X-Originating-IP: 207.67.146.243 X-Yahoo-Profile: antreed88 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 28 Oct 2004 18:36:49 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.46 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:30:51 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] New Trailer Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone is still a little skeptical about the adaptation I would suggest watching the new trailer on the Sci Fi website. It definitely lifted my spirits. http://www.scifi.com/earthsea/downloads/trailers/ --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "David" wrote: > > > . . . but nothing could be as bad as the more recent 'Lathe of > Heaven'. I had read nothing of that one before watching it. . . > well, I didn't actually watch the whole thing. . .and I was hopeful, > considering the cast. > As for 'Earthsea', I'm hopeful, but sceptical. Shawn Ashmore is > too pretty ( and too anglo ) for a true translation, but I don't > know that Ged wasn't handsome, in a rugged sort of way. And he was > very charismatic. There are any number of actors who are > deemed 'handsome', though in fact they are just average; but they > have that draw that makes you want to watch them ( Spencer Tracy & > Dustin Hoffman come to mind ). The absence of the scar, which > signified so many things, is what disappoints me about his > appearance. Tenar is my favorite character aside Ged, and that, too, > seems to have been completely re-written. And Isabella Rossellini as > Thar is beyond me. A bit too gorgeous for what the part is meant to > be. > Putting these criticisms aside, I'm willing to take a look at it, > in the hopes that perhaps, just perhaps, they will keep some of the > intention of the stories. The fact that they cast the film with a > lot of very western looking folk I can accept, though Im > disappointed by it. After all, the ideal is that race, etc. > shouldn't matter, isn't it? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Oct 28 11:45:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.24]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:40:27 -0700 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 18:40:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.158] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 18:40:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 3408 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2004 18:40:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2004 18:40:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 2004 18:40:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 18:40:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.175] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 18:40:27 -0000 X-Sender: rsecerlemica@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17691 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2004 18:24:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2004 18:24:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 2004 18:24:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 18:24:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.176] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 18:24:01 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.16 From: "rsecerlemica" X-Originating-IP: 147.91.75.2 X-Yahoo-Profile: rsecerlemica X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 28 Oct 2004 18:40:26 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.42 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:24:00 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Hi!!! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a fresh, new member of the Ekumen! Just wanted to say greatings earthlings! Kind of a new fan of Ursula Le Guin, but it was love at first sight. First book I read was Left hand of the darkness, and the rest just slipped in. I am an anthropologist (soon to be) and I am planning to write my graduation paper about Mrs Leguin. I already got the approval (rather informal) for it. I am looking for help in gathering information and maybe even some releases. Only few of her books are translated to my mother tongue, and the not-translated ones are not really available. So, you see, I need quite a lot of help. Anyway, my mind is made up, and this I shall do. ;))) So glad I found you! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Oct 28 16:40:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.36]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:02:37 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 22:02:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.96] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 22:02:39 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2225 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2004 22:02:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2004 22:02:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out002.verizon.net) (206.46.170.141) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 2004 22:02:31 -0000 Received: from Zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.82.63]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041028215845.DAG22336.out002.verizon.net@Zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:58:45 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041028174918.02214e78@incoming.verizon.net> X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [64.222.82.63] at Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:58:45 -0500 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.46.170.141 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:58:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] New Trailer Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 05:30 PM 2004-10-28 +0000, antreed88 wrote: >If anyone is still a little skeptical about the adaptation I would >suggest watching the new trailer on the Sci Fi website. It >definitely lifted my spirits. > >http://www.scifi.com/earthsea/downloads/trailers/ Hm. I watched the trailer and it did nothing for me. People have talked about the inappropriate casting, the twisting of the romantic story, and the absence of the third book in the miniseries storyline, but what concerns me the most is the suspicion that the events of the first book will be completely altered to make Ged a more Hollywood heroic kind of guy. None of the trailers have reassured me that the "man divided against himself" theme will survive. At this point, I don't at all want to watch it. However, I am morbidly curious about how terribly they will get it wrong. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: My Morning Jacket -- It Still Moves "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Oct 29 09:23:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.40]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:20:27 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Oct 2004 16:20:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.157] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Oct 2004 16:20:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: mgoldfar@mobius.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45896 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2004 16:20:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Oct 2004 16:20:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2004 16:20:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Oct 2004 16:19:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.152] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Oct 2004 16:19:24 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041028174918.02214e78@incoming.verizon.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.46 From: "Michael S. Goldfarb" X-Originating-IP: 204.126.130.10 X-Yahoo-Profile: msg_from_ny MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:19:24 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: New Trailer Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Every new bit of info I see/hear deepens my dread that the miniseries is going to *completely* miss in terms of preserving what's special about the Earthsea books. Even with a more conventional romance and standardly heroic Ged, there's a *chance* of the fascinatingly logical underpinnings of Earthsea magic and the wonderful philosophical aspects of the story coming through... but it seems a *slim* chance. This adapation may, to put it bluntly, suck big-time! Boy, I'm glad that my kids have already read the books, and that this won't be their first exposure to it! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Oct 29 12:45:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:21:45 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Oct 2004 19:21:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.97] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Oct 2004 19:21:47 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: antreed88@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2624 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2004 19:21:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Oct 2004 19:21:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2004 19:21:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Oct 2004 19:21:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.176] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Oct 2004 19:21:26 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.37 From: "antreed88" X-Originating-IP: 207.67.146.60 X-Yahoo-Profile: antreed88 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:21:26 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: New Trailer Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was feeling the same way for a little while, but after seeing the trailer, especially the third one, my spirits were lifted. I really don't think Sci Fi will make this too Hollywood and as far as Ashmore playing Ged I am glad there are talented actors like ashmore in the mini instead of nobodies. I am still hoping for a good show. --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Michael S. Goldfarb" wrote: > > Every new bit of info I see/hear deepens my dread that the miniseries > is going to *completely* miss in terms of preserving what's special > about the Earthsea books. Even with a more conventional romance and > standardly heroic Ged, there's a *chance* of the fascinatingly > logical underpinnings of Earthsea magic and the wonderful > philosophical aspects of the story coming through... but it seems a > *slim* chance. This adapation may, to put it bluntly, suck big- time! > > Boy, I'm glad that my kids have already read the books, and that this > won't be their first exposure to it! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Nov 17 10:44:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.24]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:19:44 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2004 18:19:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.195] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2004 18:19:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 98994 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2004 18:19:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2004 18:19:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.24) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2004 18:19:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2004 18:18:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.166] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2004 18:18:50 -0000 X-Sender: aleroona@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46327 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2004 18:00:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2004 18:00:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2004 18:00:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2004 17:59:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.156] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2004 17:59:52 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.37 From: "aleroona" X-Originating-IP: 207.67.147.77 X-Yahoo-Profile: aleroona X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 17 Nov 2004 18:18:47 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.24 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:59:27 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea looking more formulaic all the time Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Aquila" wrote: > Just heard something about a magazine article that said that Ged and Arha > have visions of each other throughout their lives and are around the same > age when they meet. When combined with the casting decisions I really don't > think I'm going to want to see it. > > Aquila (anyone heard anything more?) Can you post the link to the article?? I don't remember ever hearing that. I think that people need to be considerate of the fact that this is called an "adaptation" for a reason. I know what happens in the books, however, i'm interested in seeing someone else's interpretation of them. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Nov 17 10:44:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.39]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:19:13 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2004 18:19:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2004 18:19:14 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 56877 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2004 18:19:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2004 18:19:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2004 18:19:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2004 18:19:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.148] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2004 18:19:10 -0000 X-Sender: aleroona@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29387 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2004 18:03:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2004 18:03:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2004 18:03:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2004 18:03:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.189] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2004 18:03:09 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.46 From: "aleroona" X-Originating-IP: 207.67.147.77 X-Yahoo-Profile: aleroona X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 17 Nov 2004 18:19:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.46 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:03:05 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: New Trailer Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm glad you said this because i 100% agree. I just watched the newest theatrical trailer on the official site and I have to say that I don't think that they're making it too hollywood at all. The producers have some interesting things to say about their vision for the miniseries. --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "antreed88" wrote: > > I was feeling the same way for a little while, but after seeing the > trailer, especially the third one, my spirits were lifted. I really > don't think Sci Fi will make this too Hollywood and as far as > Ashmore playing Ged I am glad there are talented actors like ashmore > in the mini instead of nobodies. I am still hoping for a good show. > > --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Michael S. Goldfarb" > wrote: > > > > Every new bit of info I see/hear deepens my dread that the > miniseries > > is going to *completely* miss in terms of preserving what's > special > > about the Earthsea books. Even with a more conventional romance > and > > standardly heroic Ged, there's a *chance* of the fascinatingly > > logical underpinnings of Earthsea magic and the wonderful > > philosophical aspects of the story coming through... but it seems > a > > *slim* chance. This adapation may, to put it bluntly, suck big- > time! > > > > Boy, I'm glad that my kids have already read the books, and that > this > > won't be their first exposure to it! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Nov 19 23:28:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:53:38 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Nov 2004 21:53:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Nov 2004 21:53:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 40746 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2004 21:53:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Nov 2004 21:53:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 2004 21:53:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Nov 2004 21:53:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.141] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Nov 2004 21:53:32 -0000 X-Sender: the_espresso_addict@fireflyuk.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75809 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2004 21:34:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Nov 2004 21:34:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 2004 21:34:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Nov 2004 21:33:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.183] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Nov 2004 21:33:28 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.39 From: "tavia0" X-Originating-IP: 62.53.52.167 X-Yahoo-Profile: tavia0 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 19 Nov 2004 21:53:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.45 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:33:26 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] The Isolate Tower: An Earthsea Compendium Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey everyone, newbie here [waves anxiously] I've just launched The Isolate Tower (http://www.tavia.co.uk/earthsea/index.htm), a compendium of information regarding the people, places & things of Earthsea, in which I thought members might be interested... Current contents: ** over 300 glossary entries on the people, places, objects, animals & plants, and abstract concepts of Earthsea ** a small dictionary of Old Speech & Hardic ** a timeline ** character factfile on Ged ** a few recommended links All material relates to the original trilogy, though I plan to expand to the later books very soon. I'm still compiling material in some sections, and suggestions for other things to add would be most welcome! I'm accepting contributions of essays or articles on any relevant topic (including general material on LeGuin's sf&f writings, as long as there's some Earthsea content), as well as links to related fanfiction or fanart. E-mail me at the address given below. The Espresso Addict the_espresso_addict @ fireflyuk.net The Isolate Tower: An Earthsea Compendium http://www.tavia.co.uk/earthsea/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Nov 22 07:35:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 05:39:49 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2004 13:39:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.95] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2004 13:39:49 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 40069 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2004 13:39:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2004 13:39:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2004 13:39:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2004 13:39:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.249] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2004 13:39:23 -0000 X-Sender: swish@spray.se X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91144 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2004 11:53:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2004 11:53:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.20) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2004 11:53:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2004 11:53:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.251] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2004 11:53:20 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.20 From: "kosmoskatten9" X-Originating-IP: 213.226.88.154 X-Yahoo-Profile: kosmoskatten9 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 22 Nov 2004 13:39:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.39 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:53:19 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] the Tao of Le Guin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder what your wiews are on the subject of daoistic thought in Le Guins Earthsea cykle? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Nov 23 15:43:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.36]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:51:04 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Nov 2004 15:15:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.200] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Nov 2004 15:15:20 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: magictg@tiscalinet.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61140 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2004 15:15:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2004 15:15:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-relay-2.tiscali.it) (213.205.33.42) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Nov 2004 15:15:17 -0000 Received: from oemawmr3fqi9yi (62.11.1.128) by mail-relay-2.tiscali.it (7.1.021.3) id 415D985100AFED77 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:15:17 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c4d16f$3bec8d70$80010b3e@oemawmr3fqi9yi> To: References: Organization: Diego C Prodaccionz X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2741.2600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2742.200 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.205.33.42 From: "Diego C" X-Yahoo-Profile: moonwave77 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:15:13 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] the Tao of Le Guin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's a matter of fact that taoist philosophy lays deep behind ukl works. I think it's a quite uncommon event in fantasy books, because there is always a struggle between goodies and badies actually, and it all ends up with a triumph, you know.. this time we have a person fighting himself actually, and in a ratio of 1:1, not soldiers againts many evil creatures, you know =) so that's the point: both sides live in the same person, and ukl wants to teach that this is true for everyone of us; so our enemy is not a drake who lives far over the seas, but our own personality, our bad aspects, all the things we don't want to see, because we dont know how to call them, feeling shamed. [sorry for my English, gotta improve every day ;)] byez Diego ----- Original Message ----- From: kosmoskatten9 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:53 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] the Tao of Le Guin I wonder what your wiews are on the subject of daoistic thought in Le Guins Earthsea cykle? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Nov 23 23:16:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.39]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:03:25 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2004 07:03:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.198] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2004 07:03:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: kfitzyo@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1445 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2004 07:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2004 07:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2004 07:03:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2004 07:01:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.157] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2004 07:01:52 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001301c4d16f$3bec8d70$80010b3e@oemawmr3fqi9yi> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.39 From: "telina_na" X-Originating-IP: 24.148.19.154 X-Yahoo-Profile: telina_na MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:01:40 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: the Tao of Le Guin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LeGuin participated in a version of the Tao Te Ching, collaborating with J.P. Seaton, in 1997. Her introduction, commentaries and notes are very interesting and describe how she came to do this, seeing as she knows no Chinese (and admits to this in the notes). You might find it interesting if you are exploring her Earthsea cycle in that direction, although she doesn't discuss her fiction in those notes. Kathleen ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Nov 24 08:36:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.28]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 04:21:35 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2004 12:21:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2004 12:21:35 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1507 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2004 12:21:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2004 12:21:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp09.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.30) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2004 12:21:34 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([83.132.94.13] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp09.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:21:09 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2004 12:21:09.0576 (UTC) FILETIME=[145ECC80:01C4D220] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.30 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:21:05 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: the Tao of Le Guin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is also an audio cassette (without notes) if you would like to hear Ursula reading it. It is also accompanied by amazing thought-provoking sounds. I like listening to it. Ian on 11/24/04 7:01 AM, telina_na at kfitzyo@hotmail.com wrote: > > > LeGuin participated in a version of the Tao Te Ching, collaborating > with J.P. Seaton, in 1997. Her introduction, commentaries and notes > are very interesting and describe how she came to do this, seeing as > she knows no Chinese (and admits to this in the notes). You might > find it interesting if you are exploring her Earthsea cycle in that > direction, although she doesn't discuss her fiction in those notes. > > Kathleen > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Nov 26 09:20:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.28]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:30:10 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Nov 2004 22:30:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.195] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Nov 2004 22:30:12 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: nicoletheknitter@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91806 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2004 22:30:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2004 22:30:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54204.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.246) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2004 22:30:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 88864 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Nov 2004 22:29:46 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=ycyHbdKLSWb6yReV9UEzndAo+GYsmA05UM14QIDmxf7SqtXmoyMsHTTOv19Gg4frncfukNSy5gEFpBHCfSjjcMwk1ZHwGiihmAUZwGkw3A1F2w5QYPyEcchuB6/IitbDy1bdGV1EGYjKT0iA+c7tkMH6errD4jLOskUMghwlWA8= ; Message-ID: <20041125222946.88859.qmail@web54204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.50.20.66] by web54204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:29:46 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1101321418.169.76481.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.246 From: nicole X-Yahoo-Profile: nicoletheknitter MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:29:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 441 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi everyone, i remember reading an interview with ukl where she talked about some other authors that she thought were really good. i was wondering if any of you can remember or know the names of these authors. i need some new books to read! thanks, nicole --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Nov 26 09:20:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.35]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 00:35:50 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 08:35:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 08:35:50 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57913 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2004 08:35:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2004 08:35:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.29) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2004 08:35:49 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([83.132.94.23]) by exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:35:46 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20041125222946.88859.qmail@web54204.mail.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2004 08:35:46.0523 (UTC) FILETIME=[ECD42AB0:01C4D392] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.29 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:35:46 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 441 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Nicole How you read Ursula's The Wave in the Mind where she draws on her interviews, talks and teaching? She refers to: Tolstoy, Twain and Tolkien - and lots of others including J. L Borges and, of course, Virgina Wolfe who was the inspiration for the title. Hope this helps Best wishes Ian The title was inspired by on 11/25/04 10:29 PM, nicole at nicoletheknitter@yahoo.com wrote: > > hi everyone, > > i remember reading an interview with ukl where she talked about some other > authors that she thought were really good. > > i was wondering if any of you can remember or know the names of these authors. > i need some new books to read! > > thanks, > > nicole > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Nov 26 09:21:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 05:51:09 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 13:51:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 13:51:10 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: meelisr@ut.ee X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83075 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2004 13:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2004 13:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO raud.ut.ee) (193.40.15.176) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2004 13:51:08 -0000 Received: from localhost (meelisr@localhost) by raud.ut.ee (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id iAQDhbe28835 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:43:37 +0200 (EET) X-Authentication-Warning: raud.ut.ee: meelisr owned process doing -bs X-X-Sender: meelisr@raud To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.40.15.176 From: Meelis Rohtla X-Yahoo-Profile: televizor222000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:43:36 +0200 (EET) Subject: [the-ekumen] labelling Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit one thing's been puzzling me. Ursula Leguin has mentioned a few times in her interviews that imaginative fiction is now being labeled as 'comforting'. she called it 'a big sin', admitting that she hasn't quite figured it out. neither have i. but UKL with her scientific mind, the ability not to see things in black and white, feminist ideas, anthopological detail, moral complexity and with her serious attitude towards her craft in general, hasn't she done almost anything not to sound comforting. so it must be hard for her to see her writings labeled so. i have to say that to me personally her books, especially the later ones as far as i've read them, are comforting. i go and look for social/sociological comment, underlying taoist/anarchist thought, her mesmerizing style, above all her imagination. all that is not far from escapism. and i don't think i'm somehow less serious as a reader than most people. so where's the catch? can UKL's fiction be called comforting and if so, on what grounds? are most female writers comforting (except perhaps the ones who write modernism or political realism)? is UKL's fiction so accomplished and many-sided in all the aspects of writing and thought that a reader feels wholly embraced and protected by it? what do you think? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Nov 26 09:21:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.48]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:27:49 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 15:27:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 15:27:49 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51050 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2004 15:27:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2004 15:27:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.29) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2004 15:27:48 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([83.132.94.23]) by exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:27:22 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2004 15:27:22.0260 (UTC) FILETIME=[6CA29540:01C4D3CC] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.29 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:27:22 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] labelling Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, you can be comforted by being induced to think beyond the immediate, which is the effect Ursula's writing has on me, yet that is no secure comfort in the usual sense of the word; it is the sense that words/actions are possible. Hence, we have a paradox, don't we? Security in insecurity: comfort in discomfort. The label 'escapism' may also work in the same way: you consider something that doesn't yet exist and are an escapist until it comes to materialise, and then, eventually, people come to admit that you were, indeed, a realist! When the dream becomes reality or the nightmare, for that matter. Yes, Ursula's comfort is an uncomfortable comfort that admits the slight possibility of hope, like the drowning man who clutches at straw - accept the straw Ursula offers does, in fact, allow us to breath a little air, for a while. That's what I think, Meelis. Best wishes Ian on 11/26/04 1:43 PM, Meelis Rohtla at meelisr@ut.ee wrote: > > > > one thing's been puzzling me. Ursula Leguin has mentioned a few times in > her interviews that imaginative fiction is now being labeled as > 'comforting'. she called it 'a big sin', admitting that she hasn't quite > figured it out. > > neither have i. but UKL with her scientific mind, the ability not to see > things in black and white, feminist ideas, anthopological detail, moral > complexity and with her serious attitude towards her craft in general, > hasn't she done almost anything not to sound comforting. so it must be > hard for her to see her writings labeled so. > > i have to say that to me personally her books, especially the later ones > as far as i've read them, > are comforting. i go and look for social/sociological comment, underlying > taoist/anarchist thought, her mesmerizing style, above all her > imagination. all that is not far from escapism. and i don't think i'm > somehow less serious as a reader than most people. > > so where's the catch? can UKL's fiction be called comforting and if so, on > what grounds? are most female writers comforting (except perhaps the ones > who write modernism or political realism)? is UKL's fiction so > accomplished and many-sided in all the aspects of writing and thought that > a reader feels wholly embraced and protected by it? > > what do you think? > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Nov 26 09:21:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.41]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:51:28 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 15:51:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.98] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 15:51:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34032 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2004 15:51:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2004 15:51:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.254) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2004 15:51:28 -0000 Received: from user-38lc0n2.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.2.226] helo=computer) by pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CXiNb-0003cw-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:51:28 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.20041126074050.00913ee0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.254 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:50:48 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] labelling Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Meelis Rohtla poses thoughtful questions. The "comfort" I get from UKL's work is the knowledge that out there is a writer who recognizes what's real and true, who has her aesthetic and moral priorities straight, who finds the balance between the scientific and literary views. Especially in the science-fiction field I see too many writers who hector with inhumanly alien philosophies that they think are wise, or who wallow in enjoying the ugly. Yes, I feel comforted by fictional worlds where truth is true, the beautiful is beautiful and the ugly is ugly. Fiction can do that and pose warnings at the same time. If there's a frustration here, it could be the perception that UKL is only reaching readers who already agree with her. But I didn't know, or realize, what I believed until I read her work. Previous encounters with authors with similar viewpoints had led me to find their work synthetic, artificial, naive. UKL isn't like that: she's tough-minded. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Nov 26 09:21:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.46]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:54:10 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 15:54:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.156] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 15:54:11 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92977 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2004 15:54:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2004 15:54:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web50102.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.30) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2004 15:54:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 13377 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Nov 2004 15:54:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20041126155407.13374.qmail@web50102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.239.83.142] by web50102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:54:07 CET To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.30 From: "Lakso V." X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:54:07 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] labelling Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Meelis Rohtla ha scritto: > > one thing's been puzzling me [...] > can UKL's fiction be called comforting and if > so, on what grounds? > what do you think? Uhm... interesting thread. I think that reading UKL is quite comforting, and that it is so for being consciousness that some other people (she, the writer, but also every single reader of her book, or at least a great part of them) may have thoughts similar to mine. When, years ago, I found her books I have been so intrigued by her topics (for example anarchism, or taoism, or female role, mostly politics) and her way of writing (the way her characters act and think, for example Shevek or Luz - Eye of Heron) that I surely have been more comfortable with her than with any other author... ^_^; L ___________________________________ Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto pi divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, Giochi, Rubrica Scaricalo ora! http://it.messenger.yahoo.it ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Nov 27 00:46:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.24]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:50:45 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 21:50:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.94] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 21:50:47 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: nicoletheknitter@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64738 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2004 21:50:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2004 21:50:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54207.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.249) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2004 21:50:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 53375 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Nov 2004 21:50:44 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=I9XsvXPkF6/GnRFwGub0646mGmLaDiu/7qTuozU6HfTknJ3byfqKw26eJT+motW/KogwfvKgPm5FaD6zWDKQKY5DU9yF7D+eZRF4dO6e0JyhhXYrIWKOcKSCjTpBkqjDttejkHuMxDeIBU0ag9dDw4v/oEQEDmpKFxlID6NaaJI= ; Message-ID: <20041126215043.53373.qmail@web54207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.50.20.66] by web54207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:50:43 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1101486864.282.20503.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.249 From: nicole X-Yahoo-Profile: nicoletheknitter MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:50:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 442 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit first of all, thanks ian for the reading suggestion. secondly, when i read about "ukl's work being described as comforting", the first thing that came to my mind is the quote (from the movie, Shadowlands- about C.S. Lewis) "we read to know we're not alone". the telling was my first ukl read- and it was me! exploring culture and reconnecting with people who knew the truth. so of course it was comforting. but it is also comforting because it made me THINK. i find that so much of what western culture calls "thinking" is really just discussing the latest (ridiculous) reality television show. i don't know anyone else who reads ukl. and maybe that is also comforting too- because i do sometimes revel in the idea that i am unique and that i have my own secret world. thank you ursula. nicole --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Nov 27 00:47:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.49]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:31:18 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 22:31:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2004 22:31:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30854 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2004 22:31:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2004 22:31:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay2.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.142) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2004 22:31:18 -0000 Received: from du-040-0099.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.99] helo=oemcomputer) by relay2.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CXocX-0009WI-Ce for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:31:18 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c4d407$9f857640$63749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <20041126215043.53373.qmail@web54207.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.142 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:31:07 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 442 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes UKL comforts me - I often turn to her when I am stressed because she brings that complex sense of sanity combined with wonder that reassures me that life is beautiful after all but does not duck the difficult bits rather weaves them into reality and helps get them in proportion 'praise then creation unfinished' Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "nicole" To: Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 442 > > first of all, thanks ian for the reading suggestion. > > secondly, when i read about "ukl's work being described as comforting", the first thing that came to my mind is the quote (from the movie, Shadowlands- about C.S. Lewis) "we read to know we're not alone". > > the telling was my first ukl read- and it was me! exploring culture and reconnecting with people who knew the truth. so of course it was comforting. but it is also comforting because it made me THINK. i find that so much of what western culture calls "thinking" is really just discussing the latest (ridiculous) reality television show. > > i don't know anyone else who reads ukl. and maybe that is also comforting too- because i do sometimes revel in the idea that i am unique and that i have my own secret world. > > thank you ursula. > > nicole > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Nov 27 00:47:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:15:34 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2004 03:15:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.159] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2004 03:15:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58534 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2004 03:15:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2004 03:15:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratanakiri.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.37) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2004 03:15:35 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by ratanakiri.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAR3FXL8018215 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:15:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:15:32 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20041127031532.GB2995@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.246.141.37 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:15:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] labelling Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit rowcliffe scripsit: > The label 'escapism' may also work in the same way: you consider something > that doesn't yet exist and are an escapist until it comes to materialise, > and then, eventually, people come to admit that you were, indeed, a realist! > When the dream becomes reality or the nightmare, for that matter. As Tolkien said, people who call fantasy "escapist" are frequently mistaking the Escape of the Prisoner, an altogether honorable thing, with the Flight of the Deserter. Which is not to say that a great deal of primarily "desertist" fantasy has not been written and published since his day. -- Only do what only you can do. John Cowan --Edsger W. Dijkstra's advice http://www.reutershealth.com to a student in search of a thesis http://www.ccil.org/~cowan ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Nov 27 00:47:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:39:55 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2004 04:39:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2004 04:39:58 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96651 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2004 04:39:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2004 04:39:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out014.verizon.net) (206.46.170.46) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2004 04:39:57 -0000 Received: from Zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.223.92.215]) by out014.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041127043611.NWNN1339.out014.verizon.net@Zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:36:11 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041126230006.02192498@incoming.verizon.net> X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20041127031532.GB2995@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out014.verizon.net from [64.223.92.215] at Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:36:11 -0600 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.46.170.46 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 23:35:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] labelling Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain At 10:15 PM 2004-11-26 -0500, John Cowan wrote: >As Tolkien said, people who call fantasy "escapist" are frequently mistaking >the Escape of the Prisoner, an altogether honorable thing, with the Flight of >the Deserter. propos of this, I just read a book by Terry Pratchett (*Wyrd Sisters*) that contained a lovely comment about the function of art in human life. The character of Death (yes, the Grim Reaper) is looking around backstage of a theatre production: "There was something here, he thought, that nearly belonged to the gods. Humans had built a world inside the world, which reflected it in pretty much the same way as a drop of water reflects the landscape. And yet... and yet... Inside this little world they had taken pains to put all the things you might think they would want to escape from -- hatred, fear, tyranny and so forth. Death was intrigued. They thought they wanted to be taken out of themselves, and every art humans dreamt up took them further *in*. He was fascinated." I'm not sure there is any form of art that truly constitutes desertion. In my opinion, there is plenty of *bad* art, but in order for a book to be interesting to someone, there has to be something in it that resonates with their experience. And if their experience is unpleasant, they are likely to feel uplifted by stories that imply there is a deeper meaning to their situation. An ending that offers hope that they will survive and transcend their circumstances can be a big plus, also. The charge of "escapism" comes up, I think, when the art form being enjoyed is poorly understood by the parent or critic. It is yet another form of the "us vs. them" phenomenon. "If you can't read and enjoy the kind of books I respect, you're indulging in escapist trash." ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Ensemble Al Kindi & Sheikh Habboush -- Aleppian Sufi Trance "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Nov 28 14:55:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:45:23 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2004 19:45:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2004 19:45:25 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: needledancer@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54280 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2004 19:45:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2004 19:45:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60710.mail.yahoo.com) (216.109.117.233) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2004 19:45:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 80846 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Nov 2004 19:45:22 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=2uvncHVYsEd/7yAKN7HpDf+ojXH4J8wbOh24zNYvdguNtK2xeTtlv8FmcrgNT2rEXZmvTMW5YnjKiH9ifC57QfkKrJykmw3OBicg2HSPddHs68c0v5nPubtyvIS7IzsqP/OiWESkbBoW2IqXDlOrh36skvraioeWaP9ihvovjGk= ; Message-ID: <20041128194522.80843.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.221.72.222] by web60710.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:45:22 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1101567283.260.92068.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.109.117.233 From: Helen Pope X-Yahoo-Profile: needledancer MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:45:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: escapist fiction Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >The charge of "escapism" comes up, I think, when the >art form being enjoyed is poorly understood by the >parent or critic. It is yet another form of the >"us vs. them" phenomenon. "If you can't read and >enjoy the kind of books I respect, you're indulging >in escapist trash." Janice's remark hit home! I recall my father (who is also in Burlington, VT -- Janice would you go have a chat w/ him??) rejecting all fantasy literature as having the semblence of literature, but not the substance of literature because it was all about worlds that do not, and cannot, exist. Thus, he argued, it did not contain anything that could resonate with real human beings. I wonder if I read MORE fantasy literature because of his rejection..... escaping his condemnation by seeking to prove him wrong. Helen __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Nov 29 07:32:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:23:28 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Nov 2004 12:23:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Nov 2004 12:23:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60538 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2004 12:23:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2004 12:23:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web50103.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.31) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2004 12:23:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 15030 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Nov 2004 12:23:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20041129122321.15028.qmail@web50103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.239.83.142] by web50103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:23:21 CET To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20041126215043.53373.qmail@web54207.mail.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.31 From: "Lakso V." X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:23:21 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 442 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- nicole ha scritto: > i don't know anyone else who reads ukl. That's almost true for me too. And yet is strange, because I know from many sources that there are a lot of ukl readers O_O > and maybe > that is also comforting too- because i do sometimes > revel in the idea that i am unique and that i have > my own secret world. > > thank you ursula. > > nicole L ___________________________________ Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto pi divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, Giochi, Rubrica Scaricalo ora! http://it.messenger.yahoo.it ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Nov 30 06:09:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:44:29 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2004 08:44:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2004 08:44:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39731 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2004 08:44:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2004 08:44:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.28) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Nov 2004 08:44:27 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([83.132.94.23]) by exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:44:14 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20041129122321.15028.qmail@web50103.mail.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Nov 2004 08:44:14.0937 (UTC) FILETIME=[C584FC90:01C4D6B8] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.28 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:44:10 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 442 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain I hesitated to comment when I read nicole's comment, wondering whether I would be replying off subject but Lakso's words tipped the balance. The comments below made me wonder whether those who read Ursula tend to be 'loners'. The other day a student replied to the Omelas story by criticising those who leave Omelas. Each leaves alone, why do they leave the problem behind and go alone, he burst out indignantly. (If you haven't read this story, you can find it at: http://pencible.tripod.com/pande/omelas.htm) I confess that for me it makes sense to leave, to collect one's thoughts to find strength from somewhere else - because, in general, people are so hard, un-supportive (can't find a better word?) and appear not to care about anyone who thinks differently. I have sought 'social solidarity' and worked hard to create it wherever I go, but I have to confess, it is not our society's strongest characteristic for the most part and is full of contraditions. Shevic in the Dispossessed, surely depicts the loner syndrome - he doesn't want to be alone but is forced into that position to contribute his gift, to realise his existence. He has to leave to be able to do this, to come home. Although today there are writing groups, writing tends to be done alone and I get the feeling that Ursula writes especially to those who wish to write and to write creatively - as I sit and ponder over how to express myself, I am for the most part alone. And so nicole and Lakso, I was touched by what you wrote: what you said struck a chord that resonated in me too. Ian on 11/29/04 12:23 PM, Lakso V. at laksov@yahoo.it wrote: > > --- nicole ha scritto: > >> i don't know anyone else who reads ukl. > > That's almost true for me too. And yet is strange, > because I know from many sources that there are a lot > of ukl readers O_O > >> and maybe >> that is also comforting too- because i do sometimes >> revel in the idea that i am unique and that i have >> my own secret world. >> >> thank you ursula. >> >> nicole > > L > > > > ___________________________________ > Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto pi divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, > Giochi, Rubrica Scaricalo ora! > http://it.messenger.yahoo.it > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Nov 30 16:59:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.16]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:48:34 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2004 21:48:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2004 21:48:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Riz@cambridgedocs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73246 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2004 21:48:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2004 21:48:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fe007.mail.lan) (69.25.74.34) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Nov 2004 21:48:35 -0000 Received: from MAIL007.mail.lan ([10.109.209.107]) by fe007.mail.lan with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:48:03 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A108D72@MAIL007> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: ebook available: To Light A Candle: An Unoffical Earthsea Companion thread-index: AcTXJkTTbYUzP/sUT3e8p6mC3SzNng== To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Nov 2004 21:48:03.0976 (UTC) FILETIME=[4502D880:01C4D726] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.25.74.34 From: "Riz Virk" X-Yahoo-Profile: rizwanv MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:48:03 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] ebook available: To Light A Candle: An Unoffical Earthsea Companion Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, as promised, I'm pleased to announce that version 1.0 of my ebook, "To Light A Candle: An Unofficial Earthsea Companion" is finished and available for on-line reading and downloading. It contains 40 pages of detailed notes on the names, places, and events of LeGuin's Earthsea, including detailed descriptions of the lives of Morred, Erreth-Akbe, and Ged. So, now when your friends ask you questions like: "Was the Enemy of Morred the FireLord, the WandLord, or the GrayMage?" you can look it up! The ebook also contains beautiful artwork contributed by Earthsea fans (many thanks!) of many personalities and places of Earthsea, including Ged, Erreth-Akbe, the Tombs of Atuan, Arha/Tenar, The Dragon Of Pendor, Orm Embar, and even Kalessin. The 3-D and 2-D pictures are not to be missed for any serious Earthsea fan! You can download it at: http://www.zenentrepreneur.com/writings.htm Thanks! Riz ---------------------------------------- Rizwan Virk CTO CambridgeDocs riz@cambridgedocs.com personal: riz@alum.mit.edu ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 01 07:31:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.41]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 05:51:26 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 13:51:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 13:51:27 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19969 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2004 13:51:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2004 13:51:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m19.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.11) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2004 13:51:25 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id r.65.398b1975 (4568) for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:50:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <65.398b1975.2edf2635@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.11 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:50:45 EST Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 445 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian's comments about "Omelas" rang a bell, because I also have had students who couldn't understand why people would walk away and leave the mistreated child behind. It has just occurred to me that Le Guin's Taoism always assumes that for every departure there is a return, as in Always Coming Home. The people who walk away don't know where they're going, but it's not hard to imagine that one day they would return with a different solution for the people who stayed. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 01 08:27:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:18:42 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 16:18:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.192] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 16:18:43 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97840 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2004 16:18:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2004 16:18:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.183) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2004 16:18:42 -0000 Received: from user-38lc09h.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.1.49] helo=computer) by pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CZX4R-0001vt-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 08:11:11 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.20041201080427.0096c320@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <65.398b1975.2edf2635@aol.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.183 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 08:10:14 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 445 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 08:50 AM 12/1/2004 -0500, Judy wrote: >Ian's comments about "Omelas" rang a bell, because I also have had students >who couldn't understand why people would walk away and leave the mistreated >child behind. It's not necessarily about returning later. In a Le Guin story about journey and return, there's always an understanding of why the traveler had to leave before coming back. Le Guin explains quite clearly why nobody helps the child: the difference between the Ones and the others is whether they're willing to accept that condition, those circumstances. (It just occurred to me that the film "The Phantom Menace" may be a journey and return story, but it's the antithesis of Le Guin. Given why the travelers came back, there was no reason for them to go; and given why they went, there was no reason for them to come back when they did.) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 01 09:13:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.45]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:49:45 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 16:49:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.94] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 16:49:47 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96745 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2004 16:49:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2004 16:49:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratanakiri.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.37) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2004 16:49:44 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by ratanakiri.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iB1GnJPu019668 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:49:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:49:27 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20041201164926.GO3020@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: <65.398b1975.2edf2635@aol.com> <4.1.20041201080427.0096c320@mail.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <4.1.20041201080427.0096c320@mail.earthlink.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.246.141.37 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:49:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 445 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Bratman scripsit: > Le Guin explains quite clearly why nobody helps the child: the difference > between the Ones and the others is whether they're willing to accept that > condition, those circumstances. Nor is it at all clear that the Ones have any business pulling out the pin that allows the society of Omelas to do so well for almost all its members, no matter how monstrous an injustice that is. To do that consistently leads to the High Inquest of Somtow Sucharitkul's most-regrettably-out-of-print books (the novels _The Light on the Sound_, _The Throne of Madness_, and _The Darkling Wind_ and the collection _Utopia Hunters), with its question: who gave you the right to play God? The injustice is not fundamentally *about* the child any more: it's clear from Le Guin's description that the child's ordinary human personality is damaged beyond repair. > (It just occurred to me that the film "The Phantom Menace" may be a journey > and return story, but it's the antithesis of Le Guin. Given why the > travelers came back, there was no reason for them to go; and given why they > went, there was no reason for them to come back when they did.) Journey-and-return stories are everywhere: classically in the _Hobbit_, turned on its head in _The Lord Of The Rings_ (part of the point of which is that Frodo does not, cannot truly return). -- One art / There is John Cowan No less / No more http://www.reutershealth.com All things / To do http://www.ccil.org/~cowan With sparks / Galore -- Douglas Hofstadter ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 01 09:13:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.49]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:05:44 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 17:05:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 17:05:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44650 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2004 17:05:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2004 17:05:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp11.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.29) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2004 17:05:44 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([83.132.94.23] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp11.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:04:40 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <65.398b1975.2edf2635@aol.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Dec 2004 17:04:40.0137 (UTC) FILETIME=[D858AB90:01C4D7C7] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.29 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 17:04:36 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 445 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for expressing that so clearly, Judy. I haven't read that book yet but was puzzled by the title. Now, I see its significance, journeying into the unknown but - Always Coming Home - of course. Must get a copy. Ian on 12/1/04 1:50 PM, judyldubois@aol.com at judyldubois@aol.com wrote: > > Ian's comments about "Omelas" rang a bell, because I also have had students > who couldn't understand why people would walk away and leave the mistreated > child behind. It has just occurred to me that Le Guin's Taoism always > assumes > that for every departure there is a return, as in Always Coming Home. The > people who walk away don't know where they're going, but it's not hard to > imagine that one day they would return with a different solution for the > people > who stayed. Judy > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 01 11:00:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:58:24 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 18:58:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.199] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 18:58:26 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95716 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2004 18:58:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2004 18:58:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.28) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2004 18:58:24 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([83.132.94.23]) by exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 1 Dec 2004 18:58:20 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20041201164926.GO3020@skunk.reutershealth.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Dec 2004 18:58:20.0537 (UTC) FILETIME=[B99F1E90:01C4D7D7] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.28 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 18:58:17 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 445 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 12/1/04 4:49 PM, John Cowan at jcowan@reutershealth.com wrote: The injustice is not fundamentally *about* the child any more: it's clear from Le Guin's description that the child's ordinary human personality is damaged beyond repair. That is interesting, John, because I didn't see it that way. I felt Ursula was imitating (almost mocking) the way we tend to rationalise away injustice -as if the child would really prefer to sit in its own excrement, liquid pain, I should imagine. I was thinking, too, that we seem to be playing God when we say 'the child's ordinary human personality is damaged beyond repair'. I know what you mean, of course, and see that that is the obvious conclusion, for the situation is depicted as hopeless. But, in my opinion, experience has taught me that I don't have the right to make that appraisal. I have done such a thing and been terribly wrong but was saved by a tap on the shoulder - I have witnessed miraculous recoveries. With respect to coming home, of course you can't return to the same place, twice; it is like stepping into a river, the experience can't be the same. I think you know that another type of 'home' is implied, an inner spiritual home, the end point of a spiritual journey. But what do I really know? It is just intuition, a feeling. I think no two people see the world in the same way, just as there is no 'ordinary human personality'. The point you raise is tricky: Nor is it at all clear that the Ones have any business pulling out the pin that allows the society of Omelas to do so well for almost all its members, no matter how monstrous an injustice that is. The end justifies the means? I think there is a sense of justice, a higher truth: we know in our heart of heart that something is wrong and unacceptable, but I recognise the need to tread warily for, indeed, it is very truth that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. There are just some things I refuse to live with and I have walked away so many times I have run out of places to go. Anyway, I am stubbornly foolish so what can I do? Read some of the books your recommended? the High Inquest of Somtow Sucharitkul's most-regrettably-out-of-print books (the novels _The Light on the Sound_, _The Throne of Madness_, and _The Darkling Wind_ and the collection _Utopia Hunters) Perhaps, it is possible to get some second hand copies....I have managed to order the middle two. Ian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 01 11:36:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.50]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:01:53 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 19:01:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 19:01:55 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32081 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2004 19:01:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2004 19:01:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.28) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2004 19:01:54 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([83.132.94.23]) by exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 1 Dec 2004 19:01:52 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A108D72@MAIL007> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Dec 2004 19:01:52.0426 (UTC) FILETIME=[37EAD0A0:01C4D7D8] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.28 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 19:01:51 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] ebook available: To Light A Candle: An Unoffical Earthsea Companion Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kind of you, Riz! Thank YOU. Ian on 11/30/04 9:48 PM, Riz Virk at riz@cambridgedocs.com wrote: > > > Hi, as promised, I'm pleased to announce that version 1.0 of my ebook, "To > Light A Candle: An Unofficial Earthsea Companion" is finished and available > for on-line reading and downloading. > > It contains 40 pages of detailed notes on the names, places, and events of > LeGuin's Earthsea, including detailed > descriptions of the lives of Morred, Erreth-Akbe, and Ged. > > So, now when your friends ask you questions like: > "Was the Enemy of Morred the FireLord, the WandLord, or the GrayMage?" > > you can look it up! > > The ebook also contains beautiful artwork contributed by Earthsea fans (many > thanks!) of many personalities and places of Earthsea, including Ged, > Erreth-Akbe, the Tombs of Atuan, Arha/Tenar, The Dragon Of Pendor, Orm Embar, > and even Kalessin. > > The 3-D and 2-D pictures are not to be missed for any serious Earthsea fan! > > You can download it at: > http://www.zenentrepreneur.com/writings.htm > > Thanks! > Riz > > > ---------------------------------------- > Rizwan Virk > CTO > CambridgeDocs > riz@cambridgedocs.com > personal: riz@alum.mit.edu > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 01 11:36:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.24]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:29:30 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 19:29:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 19:29:32 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31953 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2004 19:28:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2004 19:28:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratanakiri.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.37) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2004 19:28:15 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by ratanakiri.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iB1JOHMN020636 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:24:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:24:31 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20041201192431.GX3020@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A108D72@MAIL007> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.246.141.37 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:24:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] ebook available: To Light A Candle: An Unoffical Earthsea Companion Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit rowcliffe scripsit: > Kind of you, Riz! Thank YOU. Yes, indeed. I noticed some frequently misspelled names, though: Hur-et-Hur for Hur-at-Hur, Elfarren for Elfarran, Cobb for Cob. I'll try to do a more detailed proofreading later. -- "In my last lifetime, John Cowan I believed in reincarnation; http://www.ccil.org/~cowan in this lifetime, jcowan@reutershealth.com I don't." --Thiagi http://www.reutershealth.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 01 14:33:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:29:25 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 22:29:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.199] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2004 22:29:27 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Riz@cambridgedocs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49566 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2004 22:29:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2004 22:29:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fe007.mail.lan) (69.25.74.34) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2004 22:29:26 -0000 Received: from MAIL007.mail.lan ([10.109.209.107]) by fe007.mail.lan with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:28:27 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A108D89@MAIL007> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A108D89@MAIL007> Thread-Topic: [the-ekumen] ebook available: To Light A Candle: An Unoffical Earthsea Companion thread-index: AcTX3BajU2SjMhwNSsyrztIIZminxQAGMQHx To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Dec 2004 22:28:27.0387 (UTC) FILETIME=[13E3C4B0:01C4D7F5] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.25.74.34 From: "Riz Virk" X-Yahoo-Profile: rizwanv MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:26:51 -0500 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] ebook available: To Light A Candle: An Unoffical Earthsea Companion Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the replies rowcliffe and John. John: Yes, please send any mis-spellings, or proof-reading items to me directly at riz@alum.mit.edu - because it's an ebook, it'll be pretty easy to incorporate them in to the next "release". In the meantime, enjoy the definitions and pictures! -Riz ---------------------------------------- Rizwan Virk CTO CambridgeDocs riz@cambridgedocs.com personal: riz@alum.mit.edu ________________________________ From: John Cowan [mailto:jcowan@reutershealth.com] Sent: Wed 12/1/2004 2:24 PM To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] ebook available: To Light A Candle: An Unoffical Earthsea Companion rowcliffe scripsit: > Kind of you, Riz! Thank YOU. Yes, indeed. I noticed some frequently misspelled names, though: Hur-et-Hur for Hur-at-Hur, Elfarren for Elfarran, Cobb for Cob. I'll try to do a more detailed proofreading later. -- "In my last lifetime, John Cowan I believed in reincarnation; http://www.ccil.org/~cowan in this lifetime, jcowan@reutershealth.com I don't." --Thiagi http://www.reutershealth.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 01 17:21:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.38]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:07:11 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 01:07:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.193] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 01:07:12 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: nicoletheknitter@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74665 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2004 01:07:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2004 01:07:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54201.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.243) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2004 01:07:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 86476 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Dec 2004 01:07:09 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=5csQ51tVmY7B+iWWXt/lMseUfsh9mnM3LeFxSXdSLOw57YtB7oSSjgTTd9JItPWtxjHL0BZsdTQFpepqc+L/OUMP+8xp3KIr88cPyuVIRzwJzlwiz3yfWiQrfBav73JDL0LRBluwEUkcjG/mryOisRkRuZV/z4DIFhppMXBT1Xg= ; Message-ID: <20041202010709.86474.qmail@web54201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.50.20.66] by web54201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 17:07:09 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1101842980.155.7489.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.243 From: nicole X-Yahoo-Profile: nicoletheknitter MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:07:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 445 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ian, i do agree with your email about being a loner but i think that ursula also give loners hope. many of her characters are loners but they do find love and acceptance- like ged and tenar together after so long, shevak and takver or even genry ai and estraven. one of ursula's themes is marriage and these marriages certainly aren't "2.5 children, surburbia, and a mini-van" marriages. ursula's characters' marriages just feel so real to me- there is struggle and pain and acceptance and beautiful truth. and there is sacrifice- sacrificing oneself to better their worlds- but still never forgetting the one they love. so even these loners find love- and i think the love they find after years of struggle is the most worthwhile. because they stay true to what they believe in. these books made me really re-think what marriage is- before, i was set against marriage because of how marriage is viewed in western society- such an expectation and ultimately, the savior of a single woman from spinisterhood- and the delivery of me straight into suburbia. i get asked almost weekly why i am not married and this annoys me. but ursula has helped me to figure out what kind of marriage i want. and i may have to wait like tenar and ged, but i have hope. so, maybe i should re-write my lavalife ad to say: "still looking for my shevak". :) nicole the hopeful loner --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 02 07:39:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:24:54 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 06:24:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.97] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 06:24:57 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5560 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2004 06:24:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2004 06:24:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.252) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2004 06:24:55 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfl2s.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.212.92] helo=computer) by pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CZkOb-0003I0-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:24:53 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.20041201220922.00965e60@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A108D72@MAIL007> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.252 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:23:30 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] ebook available: To Light A Candle: An Unoffical Earthsea Companion Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 04:48 PM 11/30/2004 -0500, Riz Virk wrote: >Hi, as promised, I'm pleased to announce that version 1.0 of my ebook, "To >Light A Candle: An Unofficial Earthsea Companion" is finished and available >for on-line reading and downloading. Nice little work. My first suggestion-comment is to note that it doesn't list all the islands on the Earthsea map. I'm pretty sure all of them are mentioned in the texts somewhere. And of course something you could add in your copious spare time is page references. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 02 07:39:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 03:10:16 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 11:10:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.158] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 11:10:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13344 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2004 11:10:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2004 11:10:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.28) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2004 11:10:04 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([83.132.94.25]) by exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 2 Dec 2004 11:09:31 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20041202010709.86474.qmail@web54201.mail.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Dec 2004 11:09:31.0237 (UTC) FILETIME=[65AA5150:01C4D85F] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.28 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:09:31 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 445 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nicole It is wonderful that your are able to express yourself so openly about such sensitive and personal concerns. on 12/2/04 1:07 AM, nicole at nicoletheknitter@yahoo.com wrote: > > ian, > i do agree with your email about being a loner but i think that ursula also > give loners hope. many of her characters are loners but they do find love and > acceptance- like ged and tenar together after so long, shevak and takver or > even genry ai and estraven. Yes. > > one of ursula's themes is marriage and these marriages certainly aren't "2.5 > children, surburbia, and a mini-van" marriages. ursula's characters' > marriages just feel so real to me- there is struggle and pain and acceptance > and beautiful truth. and there is sacrifice- sacrificing oneself to better > their worlds- but still never forgetting the one they love. Yes, but marriage might not be quite the term she uses. Potentially life-long commitment between people is conceived of as witnessed in the Dispossessed, a type of bonding, perhaps. I think other authors like Ivan Illich have said clearly what is implied in the present concept, which is in part a legal state, a contract - a concept that imprisons or restricts rather than acknowledging the essential, a couple's continuous will for togetherness - which I think, Ursula, depicts at times. > > so even these loners find love- and i think the love they find after years of > struggle is the most worthwhile. because they stay true to what they believe > in. Yes, it is there in the Lathe of Heaven, isn't it? > > these books made me really re-think what marriage is- before, i was set > against marriage because of how marriage is viewed in western society- such an > expectation and ultimately, the savior of a single woman from spinisterhood- > and the delivery of me straight into suburbia. i get asked almost weekly why > i am not married and this annoys me. The question probably 'tries your patience'. > > but ursula has helped me to figure out what kind of marriage i want. and i may > have to wait like tenar and ged, but i have hope. Have you noticed the significance the moon plays in the Dispossessed, for example? When you are alone, it helps to look at the moon and think that somewhere else in the world your soul mate is also being accompanied by the moon, twinkling like the stars and reaching out for you. > > so, maybe i should re-write my lavalife ad to say: "still looking for my > shevak". :) > > nicole the hopeful loner And in the light of day, you feel dazzled and have almost to bump into the person to recognise that s/he is standing right next to you. I think you can never feel sorry if you are true to yourself; your inner compass finds the way. Best wishes Ian > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 02 07:40:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.46]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:59:45 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 14:59:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 14:59:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: RachelBOsb@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97840 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2004 14:59:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2004 14:59:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2004 14:59:45 -0000 Received: from RachelBOsb@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id r.157.451eb4db (3657) for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 09:49:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <157.451eb4db.2ee0858d@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5035 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.144.207 From: RachelBOsb@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: rachelbosb MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 09:49:49 EST Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 446 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been too busy to read my posts and just walked into the middle of the very insightful Omelas discussion. I've been thinking a lot about the "walking away" option in regard to my post-election woes. Sometimes it feels like the injustices in the world (from which I benefit) are so inextricably linked to human nature and every political system that's ever existed that there is no way to fight them (i.e., free the child) without creating a chaos that results in a new kind of injustice with new victims. And then I give myself permission to mentally walk away, disown the system, tell myself it isn't real, what's real are the relationships and choices I make close to home. And then I feel guilty and think that can't be right, we have to struggle and fight for what is just no matter what. And so I struggle but I think Ursula said it so much better and more poetically in that one story. Rachel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 02 08:07:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.40]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 07:51:27 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 15:51:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 15:50:12 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23138 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2004 15:50:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2004 15:50:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp09.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.30) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2004 15:50:11 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([83.132.94.25] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp09.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 2 Dec 2004 15:50:08 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <157.451eb4db.2ee0858d@aol.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Dec 2004 15:50:08.0250 (UTC) FILETIME=[994E9DA0:01C4D886] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.30 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 15:50:05 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 446 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 12/2/04 2:49 PM, RachelBOsb@aol.com at RachelBOsb@aol.com wrote: > disown the system Therein seems to lie the crux of the matter: a system by its very nature of being a system is going to generalise and, thus, overlook individual differences - in other words, it is going to be unfair. Nevertheless, the problem seems to be far greater because most systems seem to do the very opposite of what they are supposed to do. For example, education systems tend to make people passive rather than think actively. Health systems often seem bent on killing or bankrupting you and insurance does not seem to provide much insurance. In situation after situation, we see that in the end it is people that count, people who take personal initiative to make a difference, often to express that the system is wrong and that there is a better and more appropriate course of action - and so there are in fact, good teachers, doctors and nurses and even insurance brokers. There may be many different ways of expressing an idea, but that each of us is prepared to try to express it and put that idea into practice in terms of his/her own person seems to make sense, for, in Shevek's words, you have to respect yourself - and that is a constant challenge, isn't it? Ian ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 02 11:47:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.46]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 11:23:35 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 19:23:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.98] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 19:23:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14838 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2004 19:23:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2004 19:23:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay2.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.142) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2004 19:23:35 -0000 Received: from du-040-0233.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.233] helo=oemcomputer) by relay2.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CZwY9-0000a0-B5 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 19:23:33 +0000 Message-ID: <004501c4d8a4$646b3440$e9749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <4.1.20041201080427.0096c320@mail.earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.142 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 19:23:23 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 445 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Somewhere in The Disposessed I think a saying of Odo is quoted as 'True Journey is return' Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Bratman" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 445 > > At 08:50 AM 12/1/2004 -0500, Judy wrote: > > >Ian's comments about "Omelas" rang a bell, because I also have had students > >who couldn't understand why people would walk away and leave the mistreated > >child behind. > > It's not necessarily about returning later. In a Le Guin story about > journey and return, there's always an understanding of why the traveler had > to leave before coming back. > > Le Guin explains quite clearly why nobody helps the child: the difference > between the Ones and the others is whether they're willing to accept that > condition, those circumstances. > > (It just occurred to me that the film "The Phantom Menace" may be a journey > and return story, but it's the antithesis of Le Guin. Given why the > travelers came back, there was no reason for them to go; and given why they > went, there was no reason for them to come back when they did.) > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:19:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.20]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 03:34:07 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 11:34:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.95] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 11:34:07 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71605 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2004 11:34:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2004 11:34:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web50109.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.37) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2004 11:34:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 5865 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Dec 2004 11:33:46 -0000 Message-ID: <20041203113346.5863.qmail@web50109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.239.83.142] by web50109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Dec 2004 12:33:46 CET To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <004501c4d8a4$646b3440$e9749ed9@oemcomputer> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.37 From: "Lakso V." X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:33:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As regarding Omelas (a short story I love) I collected a few quotes from your messages... Before a comment, I'd like to tell the group a little thing I did a few months ago. Please... this post is long and (I hope not, but I have fear it is) boring... Ok this is a disclaimer. I like gaming, expecially roleplaying (I mean pen&paper rpg, not computer rpg). I like also let roleplaying adventure grow up from books. So I sometimes have taken the plot from Borges, Spanish literature or some other writers like Sturgeon or Sterling. I have to admit I always have had difficulties with Le Guin but I tried with Omelas. There's need to spend a few words about the game I used because it was not D&D, it was another rolegame named Alter Ego. In AE there's an infinite number of reflexes of our world. Players may jump in a reflex, and find a slightly different copy of our world. Differencies will be small or big based on the distance of the reflex from the original, anyway in every copy they'll find an 'alter ego' of themselves and this will be the character they'll play with. Game is structured in two parts: after a brief visit in the reflex, players will be asked to say a reason to investigate again the world for a brief time (brief because being a reflex, it will soon disappear) or to leave. My idea was to send players in Omelas. Let them try the chance in the perfect society. I would have followed any player idea about this world, as Le Guin in the short story did. The first part would at the news that a visit to the child is approaching. Players told me they wanted to go back in the reflex to know what the 'child' was. And the caos began. Yes, because I've never seen such an argue. As they knew how Omelas society was constructed on, the party split. The one I called the 'Communist' party would not have walked away, basically because they said "well-living of all can be based upon pain of just one". The other party, that I called the 'Anarchist' party, would have surely walked away, because they said that "I can live knowing that someone else is carrying my pains"... Wow, I was pleased that gaming about Ursula K Le Guin was summoning such an interesting discussion but... I had never seen some of my friends so hurted. Even if I am used to talk about politics, this was supposed to be a game... I think that the experiment failed... Definitively I will use D&D for future playing. Why I am telling this? Well, for me walking away was such an obvious decision that I have been surprised how the game ended... --- David Bratman wrote: >Le Guin explains quite clearly why nobody helps the >child: the difference between the Ones and the >others is whether they're willing to accept that >condition, those circumstances. --- John Cowan wrote: > The injustice is not fundamentally *about* the > child any more: it's clear from Le Guin's > description that the child's ordinary human > personality is damaged beyond repair. --- rowcliffe wrote: > The end justifies the means? I think there is a > sense of justice, a higher truth: we know in our > heart of heart that something is wrong and > unacceptable [...] And here are the quotes from the groups... Honestly I am one of those that would walk away. I think that the end can never justify a bad mean. Im my humble opinion, the unbearable of Omelas is that a single person is unable to change the things, and basically the only chance I see is to walk away. This choice also means to be alone, I guess, instead of living in Omelas, the perfect society. Maybe taking such a decision means a lot... but maybe it's better not to indulge in such alone-like thoughts, I think. Uhm... I didn't mean to write so much a depressive post... L ___________________________________ Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto pi divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, Giochi, Rubrica Scaricalo ora! http://it.messenger.yahoo.it ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:19:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.41]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 03:38:21 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 11:38:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.192] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 11:38:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27453 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2004 11:38:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2004 11:38:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web50102.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.30) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2004 11:38:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 72191 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Dec 2004 11:38:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20041203113815.72189.qmail@web50102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.239.83.142] by web50102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Dec 2004 12:38:15 CET To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20041202010709.86474.qmail@web54201.mail.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.30 From: "Lakso V." X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:38:15 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 445 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- nicole ha scritto: > "still looking for my shevak". :) This is such a nice thing to say... may I borrow it from you and say that I'm looking for Takver in a sign? I've always admired Takver. L ___________________________________ Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto pi divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, Giochi, Rubrica Scaricalo ora! http://it.messenger.yahoo.it ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:19:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 05:09:31 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 13:09:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.199] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 13:09:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51154 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2004 13:09:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2004 13:09:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp11.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.29) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2004 13:09:27 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([83.132.94.39] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp11.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 3 Dec 2004 13:09:21 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20041203113346.5863.qmail@web50109.mail.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2004 13:09:21.0878 (UTC) FILETIME=[4E08CF60:01C4D939] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.29 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 13:09:18 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 12/3/04 11:33 AM, Lakso V. at laksov@yahoo.it wrote: > I had never seen some of my friends so hurted. Thanks for the warning, Lakso: presumably, we feel threaten by these issues. Ian ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 08:45:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 08:38:11 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 16:37:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.98] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 16:37:00 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31369 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2004 16:36:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2004 16:36:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web50106.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.34) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2004 16:36:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 41904 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Dec 2004 16:36:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20041203163653.41902.qmail@web50106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.239.83.142] by web50106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:36:53 CET To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.34 From: "Lakso V." X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 17:36:53 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- rowcliffe wrote: > Thanks for the warning, Lakso: presumably, we feel > threaten by these issues. > > Ian Hi Ian, thank you for your reply. Probably for my bad English I don't understand if you are serious. If you are please explain it better :) My post was more about Omelas (and I said I love it at the beginning) than to warn about people that could get offended by it. L ___________________________________ Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto pi divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, Giochi, Rubrica Scaricalo ora! http://it.messenger.yahoo.it ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 14:35:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.28]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 14:28:51 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 22:28:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.192] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 22:28:53 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9749 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2004 22:28:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2004 22:28:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grunt11.ihug.co.nz) (203.109.254.54) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2004 22:28:52 -0000 Received: from tig-nz-akl-ns-42.ihug.net (ihug.co.nz) [203.109.252.42] by grunt11.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CaLuy-00065j-00; Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:28:48 +1300 Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Quality Web Email v3.1b, http://netwinsite.com/refw.htm Priority: normal Message-id: <41b0e8a0.219.5b7a.476613639@ihug.co.nz> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.109.254.54 From: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Originating-IP: 130.216.136.46 X-Yahoo-Profile: aquila1nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:28:48 +1300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Well, for me walking away was such an obvious decision > that I have been surprised how the game ended... It's easy to think that I would walk away but in real life I don't.* I think it's like those experiments that show some of the worst treatment of other people can be done by ordinary people, given certain circumstances. As the story says, only the few turn and walk away to something else. The rest of us stick with the status quo. "what difference would I really make". Maybe the people in your group were looking honestly. Aquila * Disclaimer: There's no tortured child in my basement, but given how regularly they pop up in the media I'm sure there are right now in my city. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 15:27:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.38]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 14:43:20 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 22:43:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.159] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 22:43:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45645 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2004 22:43:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2004 22:43:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2004 22:43:20 -0000 Received: from du-040-0080.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.80] helo=oemcomputer) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CaM8x-0009r7-Fa for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 03 Dec 2004 22:43:16 +0000 Message-ID: <001601c4d989$759284e0$50749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <41b0e8a0.219.5b7a.476613639@ihug.co.nz> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.143 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 22:43:07 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Personally I find The ones who walk away from Omelas unbearably painful. Walking away may disassociate you, but that child is still in fear and pain. Can't we give her some hope or relief? Perhaps I am being Dr Haber instead of Georgr Orr. Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas > > > Well, for me walking away was such an obvious decision > > that I have been surprised how the game ended... > > It's easy to think that I would walk away but in real life I > don't.* I think it's like those experiments that show some > of the worst treatment of other people can be done by > ordinary people, given certain circumstances. As the story > says, only the few turn and walk away to something else. The > rest of us stick with the status quo. "what difference would > I really make". Maybe the people in your group were looking > honestly. > > Aquila > > * Disclaimer: There's no tortured child in my basement, but > given how regularly they pop up in the media I'm sure there > are right now in my city. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 15:27:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.41]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 14:52:54 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 22:52:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.95] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 22:52:56 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99427 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2004 22:52:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2004 22:52:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grunt6.ihug.co.nz) (203.109.254.46) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2004 22:52:53 -0000 Received: from tig-nz-akl-ns-42.ihug.net (ihug.co.nz) [203.109.252.42] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CaMIH-0002MW-00; Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:52:53 +1300 Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Quality Web Email v3.1b, http://netwinsite.com/refw.htm Priority: normal Message-id: <41b0ee45.85.237b.1244379714@ihug.co.nz> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.109.254.46 From: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Originating-IP: 130.216.136.46 X-Yahoo-Profile: aquila1nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:52:53 +1300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd not thought of it that way. I think I felt that because the existence of Omelas depended on the childs misery, that if everyone walked away it would end. But that would never happen. And yes, the child still suffers, though the person who leaves no longer profits from it. The story was specific that any help to the child at all would bring Omelas' joy to an end, but not on what would take it's place. Does no one ever try to topple the whole thing? Come back with an army and cause way more suffering in order to rescue the child? Sneak in and help the child, bringing Omelas as we know it to an end. Hmm. Aquila > > > Personally I find The ones who walk away from Omelas > unbearably painful. Walking away may disassociate you, but > that child is still in fear and pain. Can't we give her > some hope or relief? Perhaps I am being Dr Haber instead > of Georgr Orr. Hannah > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 10:28 PM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas > > > > > > > Well, for me walking away was such an obvious decision > > > that I have been surprised how the game ended... > > > > It's easy to think that I would walk away but in real > > life I don't.* I think it's like those experiments that > > show some of the worst treatment of other people can be > > done by ordinary people, given certain circumstances. As > > the story says, only the few turn and walk away to > > something else. The rest of us stick with the status > > quo. "what difference would I really make". Maybe the > > people in your group were looking honestly. > > > > Aquila > > > > * Disclaimer: There's no tortured child in my basement, > > but given how regularly they pop up in the media I'm > > sure there are right now in my city. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up > ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. > Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ----------~-> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Dec 04 16:33:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.40]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 4 Dec 2004 14:36:05 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2004 22:36:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.158] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2004 22:36:07 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: joannehossack@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53286 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2004 22:36:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2004 22:36:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.246.118) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2004 22:36:01 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 4 Dec 2004 14:36:00 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.124.103.162 by BAY2-DAV14.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 04 Dec 2004 22:35:03 +0000 X-Originating-Email: [joannehossack@hotmail.com] X-Sender: joannehossack@hotmail.com To: References: <41b0ee45.85.237b.1244379714@ihug.co.nz> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Dec 2004 22:36:00.0744 (UTC) FILETIME=[A159CE80:01C4DA51] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.246.118 From: "Joanne Hossack" X-Originating-IP: [24.124.103.162] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 16:38:15 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: aquila1@ihug.co.nz To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas I'd not thought of it that way. I think I felt that because the existence of Omelas depended on the childs misery, that if everyone walked away it would end. But that would never happen. And yes, the child still suffers, though the person who leaves no longer profits from it. The story was specific that any help to the child at all would bring Omelas' joy to an end, but not on what would take it's place. Does no one ever try to topple the whole thing? Come back with an army and cause way more suffering in order to rescue the child? Sneak in and help the child, bringing Omelas as we know it to an end. Hmm. Aquila > > > Personally I find The ones who walk away from Omelas > unbearably painful. Walking away may disassociate you, but > that child is still in fear and pain. Can't we give her > some hope or relief? Perhaps I am being Dr Haber instead > of Georgr Orr. Hannah > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 10:28 PM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas > > > > > > > Well, for me walking away was such an obvious decision > > > that I have been surprised how the game ended... > > > > It's easy to think that I would walk away but in real > > life I don't.* I think it's like those experiments that > > show some of the worst treatment of other people can be > > done by ordinary people, given certain circumstances. As > > the story says, only the few turn and walk away to > > something else. The rest of us stick with the status > > quo. "what difference would I really make". Maybe the > > people in your group were looking honestly. > > > > Aquila > > > > * Disclaimer: There's no tortured child in my basement, > > but given how regularly they pop up in the media I'm > > sure there are right now in my city. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up > ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. > Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ----------~-> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 05 23:02:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 5 Dec 2004 22:26:57 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 06:27:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.198] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 06:27:00 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 8912 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2004 06:26:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2004 06:26:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Dec 2004 06:26:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 06:26:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.183] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 06:26:59 -0000 X-Sender: level5elfwarrior@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73579 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2004 05:53:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2004 05:53:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Dec 2004 05:53:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 05:53:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.171] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 05:53:01 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.45 From: "Wilbur" X-Originating-IP: 4.231.178.9 X-Yahoo-Profile: level5elfwarrior X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 06 Dec 2004 06:26:38 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.42 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 05:53:00 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] The miniseries Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I can't wait for the miniseries for earthsea. I haven't read the books yet, but I'm definatly going to after the series is over. I joined the earthsea fangroup first for the miniseries but not much seems to be happening over there. Can anyone tell me what they think or predict from the upcoming miniseries having already read the book? Wilbur ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 06 07:14:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.20]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 04:04:13 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 12:04:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 12:04:13 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73060 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2004 12:04:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2004 12:04:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.30) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Dec 2004 12:04:12 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([83.132.94.134] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:04:05 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20041203163653.41902.qmail@web50106.mail.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2004 12:04:05.0164 (UTC) FILETIME=[AEBAEEC0:01C4DB8B] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.30 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:04:02 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Hi, Lakso What I meant is that I can see why people might get upset: the truth hurts. Clearly, it is unpleasant to think that our actions lead to another person's misery and, perhaps even more frustrating, not knowing what to do about our actions. That is why, Ursula tries to convey the problem and solution via a story rather than simply criticising the way we live. In short, unlike those in Omelas, most of us feel a certain guilt that hurts. So, no, I was far from being offended and quite genuinely thanking you. The Omelas story is threatening and potentially very upsetting. on 12/3/04 4:36 PM, Lakso V. at laksov@yahoo.it wrote: > > --- rowcliffe wrote: > >> Thanks for the warning, Lakso: presumably, we feel >> threaten by these issues. >> >> Ian > > Hi Ian, thank you for your reply. Probably for my bad > English I don't understand if you are serious. If you > are please explain it better :) > > My post was more about Omelas (and I said I love it at > the beginning) than to warn about people that could > get offended by it. > > L > > > > ___________________________________ > Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto pi divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, > Giochi, Rubrica Scaricalo ora! > http://it.messenger.yahoo.it > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 06 07:14:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.28]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 04:16:50 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 12:16:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 12:16:50 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21381 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2004 12:16:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2004 12:16:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.30) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Dec 2004 12:16:50 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([83.132.94.134] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:16:47 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <41b0ee45.85.237b.1244379714@ihug.co.nz> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2004 12:16:47.0086 (UTC) FILETIME=[74DF00E0:01C4DB8D] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.30 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:16:44 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 12/3/04 10:52 PM, aquila1@ihug.co.nz at aquila1@ihug.co.nz wrote: > I'd not thought of it that way. I think I felt that because > the existence of Omelas depended on the childs misery, that > if everyone walked away it would end. But that would never > happen. And yes, the child still suffers, though the person > who leaves no longer profits from it. I don't know whether others have read Daniel Quinn's books, The Ishmael series, but they follow up the theme of walking way; that is, withdrawing your support from a system you don't agree with by organising your life according to different principles. It is summed up in what he calls the 'leaver' life style in contrast with that of the 'taker'. Ian ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 06 07:15:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 04:46:36 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 12:46:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 12:46:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83126 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2004 12:45:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2004 12:45:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.30) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Dec 2004 12:45:20 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([83.132.94.134] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp10.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:45:16 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001601c4d989$759284e0$50749ed9@oemcomputer> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2004 12:45:16.0727 (UTC) FILETIME=[6FE58470:01C4DB91] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.30 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:45:14 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 12/3/04 10:43 PM, Robins- one of at robins@clara.co.uk wrote: > Personally I find The ones who walk away from Omelas unbearably painful. > Walking away may disassociate you, but that child is still in fear and pain. > Can't we give her some hope or relief? Perhaps I am being Dr Haber instead > of Georgr Orr. > Hannah The Dr. Haber approach is a problematic - trying to change things directly often seems to make things worse. The Orr approach seems to portray life in terms of living in balance and, thus, seems to accept the status quo for good and for bad. And then there is the Shevek way, to leave to bring about change. The third position seems to take into account Victor Frenkl's notion of paradoxical intention. That actually shows up in the Dispossessed. We see it in the illustration and story that Shevek recounts to the other children in the communication lesson. The one with the tree and the stone. That is similar to the story of the frog trying to get across the pond. For every leap, it slips back half of the distance to be covered. Hence, while it is moving forward with each leap, it never arrives at the other side. So how did it cross? It turned around and went home! Actually, it is not true, it was snapped up and eaten by a stork. That is, in many parts of the world, people are trying to live differently but are actively being consumed by new forms of slavery - see Kevin Bales's Disposable People - and we are the consumers who benefit, directly or indirectly. Ian ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 06 07:15:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.20]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 05:17:05 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 13:17:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2004 13:17:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: meelisr@ut.ee X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59155 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2004 13:17:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2004 13:17:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO raud.ut.ee) (193.40.15.176) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Dec 2004 13:17:03 -0000 Received: from localhost (meelisr@localhost) by raud.ut.ee (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id iB6DH0L07124 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 15:17:00 +0200 (EET) X-Authentication-Warning: raud.ut.ee: meelisr owned process doing -bs X-X-Sender: meelisr@raud To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <41b0ee45.85.237b.1244379714@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.40.15.176 From: Meelis Rohtla X-Yahoo-Profile: televizor222000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 15:17:00 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One more world on Omelas. I guess Leguin's story is mostly just a parable based on a famous philosophical theme as the subtitle also suggests. Leguin chose a different approach from the philosophers. She did what a science fiction writer does - she created a world. And in this world, beautiful and rich as all her worlds, everything is related to one central thing. It's not just the society versus individual, it's a whole wide world versus one poor child. Not just sociology but philosophy in it's widest sense. I think the writer's intention was to present the old issue from as different viewpoints as possible, to make it all round, so to say. And in doing that, she had more success than most philosophers in making people think. She describes a world and then asks a few questions, all hauntingly relevant. An exposition, not an extrapolation, and as such it doesn't offer or ask for any (easy) solutions. meelis ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 08:12:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:03:42 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2004 16:03:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.98] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2004 16:03:43 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93825 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2004 16:03:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2004 16:03:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web50101.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.29) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2004 16:03:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 13369 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Dec 2004 16:02:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20041207160234.13367.qmail@web50101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.239.83.142] by web50101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:02:34 CET To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.29 From: "Lakso V." X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:02:34 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- rowcliffe wrote: > > Hi, Lakso Hi Ian > What I meant is that I can see why people might get > upset: the truth hurts. > Clearly, it is unpleasant to think that our actions > lead to another person's misery and, perhaps even > more frustrating, not knowing what to do about our > actions. Yes that's true. It's more than unpleasant I think, it's unbearable. I've read all the posts about Omelas. I think that in a place where walking away would be possible, I would. The problem is that in real life it's not so easy. And there's more: in real life it's not so easy having the chance to identify the child. There's no a 'child' that cannot be save there's plenty of them that can be. Life is harder that in Omelas, so people feel more guilty. Playing Alter Ego had the effect to make feel people guilty, and this is not fun. That's why my friends got upset. > That is why, Ursula tries to convey the > problem and solution via a > story rather than simply criticising the way we > live. In short, unlike > those in Omelas, most of us feel a certain guilt > that hurts. Yes ^^ > So, no, I was far from being offended and quite > genuinely thanking you. The Omelas story is > threatening and potentially very upsetting. Yes, I think so... Thank you for your reply, Ian. Lakso aka riccardo (my real name. Lakso is a nickname based on a character I use on the net but I guess I can reveal the real name, as Ged did :) ___________________________________ Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto pi divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, Giochi, Rubrica Scaricalo ora! http://it.messenger.yahoo.it ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 11:44:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.44]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:12:32 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2004 19:12:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.94] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2004 19:12:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19046 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2004 19:12:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2004 19:12:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.28) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2004 19:12:19 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([83.132.94.27]) by exch01smtp12.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:10:07 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20041207160234.13367.qmail@web50101.mail.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Dec 2004 19:10:08.0031 (UTC) FILETIME=[5DCCA2F0:01C4DC90] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.28 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:11:56 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 12/7/04 4:02 PM, Lakso V. at laksov@yahoo.it wrote: > And there's more: in real life it's not so easy having > the chance to identify the child. There's no a 'child' > that cannot be save there's plenty of them that can > be. Too, true - once again the question is how - I heard stories that in some communities certain children are seen as touched by G/god. The society I would chose to belong to would think like that. For the problem is not the child's but the mentality of the people around him/her. I don't know whether you ever saw the film Family life based on Laing's work, but the normal feeling person is turned into a vegetable by all the crazy family members who carry on conventional lives in society. We are being conditioned to specialise and not to feel. Authors like Ursula, sensitise us to relationships and content in our lives. Amy Tan does much the same thing using a story to express emotions which are little understood. Returning to your game, perhaps using a created name to play would help to think ideas through and not feel hurt. Role playing and acting may also promote freedom. I think that is why author's so often use pen-names. Good on you Lakso aka riccardo Ian ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 08 13:37:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.48]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:33:32 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Dec 2004 21:33:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Dec 2004 21:33:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29953 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2004 21:32:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2004 21:32:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2004 21:32:14 -0000 Received: from du-040-0178.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.178] helo=oemcomputer) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cc9Pt-0002j9-Eo for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 08 Dec 2004 21:32:10 +0000 Message-ID: <001201c4dd6d$5ba796a0$b2749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.143 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:32:02 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well. to me the story of the rock and the stone simply reminded me of something I learnt at school - physics? maths? philosophy? all of them? Something to do with calculus I feel. The paradox of being and becoming which Shevek explains so beautifully when talking at the party where he got drunk - also a common theme for UKL I feel - Ged certainly speaks of having to choosed between being and becoming as a child and leaping straight for becoming..... also as a science student with literature regrets when I first met UKL's work I loved her for not setting an artificial barrier between science and art but instead for synthesizing them in a very illuminating way Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "rowcliffe" To: Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas > > on 12/3/04 10:43 PM, Robins- one of at robins@clara.co.uk wrote: > > > Personally I find The ones who walk away from Omelas unbearably painful. > > Walking away may disassociate you, but that child is still in fear and pain. > > Can't we give her some hope or relief? Perhaps I am being Dr Haber instead > > of Georgr Orr. > > Hannah > > The Dr. Haber approach is a problematic - trying to change things directly > often seems to make things worse. The Orr approach seems to portray life in > terms of living in balance and, thus, seems to accept the status quo for > good and for bad. And then there is the Shevek way, to leave to bring about > change. The third position seems to take into account Victor Frenkl's > notion of paradoxical intention. That actually shows up in the Dispossessed. > > We see it in the illustration and story that Shevek recounts to the other > children in the communication lesson. The one with the tree and the stone. > > That is similar to the story of the frog trying to get across the pond. For > every leap, it slips back half of the distance to be covered. Hence, while > it is moving forward with each leap, it never arrives at the other side. So > how did it cross? It turned around and went home! > > Actually, it is not true, it was snapped up and eaten by a stork. That is, > in many parts of the world, people are trying to live differently but are > actively being consumed by new forms of slavery - see Kevin Bales's > Disposable People - and we are the consumers who benefit, directly or > indirectly. > > Ian > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 09 08:09:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 01:35:54 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Dec 2004 09:34:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Dec 2004 09:34:02 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28829 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2004 09:34:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2004 09:34:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp09.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.29) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2004 09:34:01 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([83.132.94.14] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp09.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:33:55 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001201c4dd6d$5ba796a0$b2749ed9@oemcomputer> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Dec 2004 09:33:55.0035 (UTC) FILETIME=[33839AB0:01C4DDD2] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.29 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 09:33:52 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 12/8/04 9:32 PM, Robins- one of at robins@clara.co.uk wrote: > I loved her for not setting an artificial barrier between > science and art but instead for synthesizing them in a very illuminating way > Hannah I agree entirely with you Hannah. We tend to be blinded by the way knowledge is broken up and, thus, see existence in a fragmented form. How else would we put up with the lack of respect for life that characterises our 'civilisation'. As specialists, we tend to be tools for the unscrupulous, who are also the product of the same blinkered vision of life. Yes, Ursula would 'open' our eyes. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:30:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.46]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 04:23:05 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2004 12:23:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2004 12:23:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: immanent_grove@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82782 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2004 12:23:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2004 12:23:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.49.5) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2004 12:23:04 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 04:23:04 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 209.210.33.71 by by14fd.bay14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:22:39 GMT X-Originating-Email: [immanent_grove@hotmail.com] X-Sender: immanent_grove@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20041203113346.5863.qmail@web50109.mail.yahoo.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Bcc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Dec 2004 12:23:04.0076 (UTC) FILETIME=[FF3A1CC0:01C4DEB2] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.49.5 From: "Eric Kniffin" X-Originating-IP: [209.210.33.71] X-Yahoo-Profile: masterpatterner MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 07:22:39 -0500 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I haven't read the many replies yet, so maybe I'm just repeating someone else. I've always been disgusted with every person in Omelas who ever learned the truth about their "paradise" and the girl, regardless of whether they stayed or walked away. Without the slightest hesitation, I would take the girl out of her horror. I don't have the story with me at the moment, but I believe it says that paradise ends if the girl is shown any act of kindness. Something like that? Fine, let paradise end. Paradise based on such a situation is deplorable. I'd rather have the world I live in, where we all have to work to make the best life and world we can. Maybe I've read too much Ayn Rand, but we do not have the right to sacrifice anyone, not even for the sake of everyone else. That girl's life is hers to do with what she wants, it is not ours to do with what *we* want. If someone volunteers to be put into such a situation so that the rest can have their paradise, fine, but living at someone else's expense is not. My rant for the day. heh Patterner _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 09:30:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:28:16 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2004 17:28:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.158] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2004 17:28:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41165 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2004 17:28:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2004 17:28:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2004 17:28:15 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id r.155.459dfe36 (16335) for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:27:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <155.459dfe36.2eeb3698@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5003 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.139.136 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:27:52 EST Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 453 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I may have mentioned this a year or so ago, the last time we discussed Omelas, but one day I was trying to help some French students of English understand the story, and it suddenly occurred to me that the story can be represented by the yin/yang sign, a circle divided into black and white halves, with a black spot in the white and a white spot in the black. If Omelas, the city where everyone is supposed to be happy is represented by the white half, and the black half represents the dark, mysterious world outside of Omelas where supposedly there is suffering and unhappiness, then the child who suffers could be the black dot and the ones who refuse to pay for their happiness with his suffering and walk away would be the white dot. Le Guin doesn't tell us whether or not the child was born retarded or became retarded because of its treatment, but I don't think that the fact that he wouldn't be capable of appreciating better treatment justifies letting him suffer. I think that the ones who walk away realize that any effort to help the child is doomed by the society that has accepted his suffering as the price of their happiness, and that the only way the child's abuse can truly stop is for everyone in the city to walk away. Of course, this is a Taoist attitude, "being" what they are by refusing the benefits of the child's existence rather than "doing", or trying to lead a revolution. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 19:52:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.36]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:17:13 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2004 18:08:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2004 18:08:59 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59544 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2004 18:08:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2004 18:08:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.226) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2004 18:08:58 -0000 Received: from user-38ldtkn.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.246.151] helo=computer) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ccp8j-0000Z7-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:05:13 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.20041210095720.0098d970@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.226 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:03:26 -0800 Subject: [the-ekumen] UKL on Earthsea movie Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't recall this being mentioned here, but UKL a few weeks ago broke her silence on the Earthsea film. She is not happy. Not so much about the film itself - she knew they'd muck that up - but about the director and producer making clumsy and inaccurate statements on what the books are about and what the author intended. I look forward to reports on the film from those who get the channel on which it's shown, and who have the stomach to sit through it. David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 11:27:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.49]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:19:34 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2004 19:19:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.156] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2004 19:19:32 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84372 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2004 19:19:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2004 19:19:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (66.54.152.27) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2004 19:19:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 28797 invoked by uid 417); 10 Dec 2004 19:18:40 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (172.16.3.10) by shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2004 19:18:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 28793 invoked by uid 417); 10 Dec 2004 19:18:40 -0000 Received: from mambo-.softhome.net (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.2.15) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 10 Dec 2004 19:18:40 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 417) by softhome.net with local; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:18:40 -0700 References: <4.1.20041210095720.0098d970@mail.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <4.1.20041210095720.0098d970@mail.earthlink.net> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net Message-ID: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.54.152.27 From: dsalo@softhome.net X-Originating-IP: [144.92.89.162] X-Yahoo-Profile: iiipitaka MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:18:40 -0700 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: UKL on Earthsea movie Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----------------------- Yahoo! Groups Survey ----------------------~--> Please help us to improve Yahoo! Groups. Take the survey now! http://v2.decipherinc.com/survey/yahoo/yah04021?list=2 --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> David Bratman writes: > I don't recall this being mentioned here, but UKL a few weeks ago broke her > silence on the Earthsea film. She is not happy. > > Not so much about the film itself - she knew they'd muck that up - but > about the director and producer making clumsy and inaccurate statements on > what the books are about and what the author intended. It's certainly possible, even likely, that the director of the TV version misunderstood the themes of the Earthsea stories and made a hash of the actual production. But, having had a small amount of experience with entertainment reporting, I should say that the chances of Halmi's quote accurately reflecting his entire thought on the themes of Earthsea is not very great. For one thing, when bright lights and microphones are turned on people who are not very skilled verbally, they are apt to blurt out condensed versions of their thoughts that simply don't make any sense when reread in the cold light of day. Or, if they take the time to slowly and clearly explain what they mean, they will find that 95% of what they said has been cut and a near-meaningless fragment has been allowed to stand as a summary of everything they said. So while I have a lot of sympathy with UKL's reaction (especially to having ideas not hers attributed to her), I can also imagine that Halmi might wish he had spoken differently or had been quoted in greater detail about a complex subject. In any case I suppose his vision can be better judged by the artistic quality of his TV show (whether it really has anything to do with UKL's Earthsea or not) than by a lightweight "Sci Fi Magazine" promotional story. David Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 13:20:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:17:22 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2004 20:17:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2004 20:17:24 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67041 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2004 20:17:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2004 20:17:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grunt15.ihug.co.nz) (203.109.254.62) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2004 20:17:15 -0000 Received: from p3-max4.akl.ihug.co.nz (hppav) [203.173.207.67] by grunt15.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CcrCU-0001wF-00; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:17:14 +1300 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.109.254.62 From: "Aquila" X-Yahoo-Profile: aquila1nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:21:59 +1300 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So I take it you are very careful to ensure that you don't buy sweat shop clothes, that you campaign for things like good maternity leave and pay and anything else that will bring the children of your country out of poverty. That you volunteer at city missions or soup kitchens or whatever your equivalent is. Now I don't know you or where you live, it's entirely posible you do. But it seems to me that children do suffer for how we live our lives. I've always thought that we do live in Omelas - at least the well off in the developed world do. Aquila > I haven't read the many replies yet, so maybe I'm just repeating someone > else. I've always been disgusted with every person in Omelas who ever > learned the truth about their "paradise" and the girl, regardless > of whether > they stayed or walked away. Without the slightest hesitation, I > would take > the girl out of her horror. I don't have the story with me at > the moment, > but I believe it says that paradise ends if the girl is shown any act of > kindness. Something like that? Fine, let paradise end. > Paradise based on > such a situation is deplorable. I'd rather have the world I live > in, where > we all have to work to make the best life and world we can. > Maybe I've read > too much Ayn Rand, but we do not have the right to sacrifice anyone, not > even for the sake of everyone else. That girl's life is hers to do with > what she wants, it is not ours to do with what *we* want. If someone > volunteers to be put into such a situation so that the rest can > have their > paradise, fine, but living at someone else's expense is not. > > My rant for the day. heh > > Patterner ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 19:51:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:12:45 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2004 23:12:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2004 23:12:47 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: nicoletheknitter@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69033 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2004 23:12:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2004 23:12:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54205.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.247) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2004 23:12:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 55530 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Dec 2004 23:12:43 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=DFFWdEcmssikjr02r9P2CECGXHQTUkHCheJlk53AkDzwyaYXUqSPZv/wwhc7A64s8BHqmD4xZv++Gf8TH0p4bbn0inxaTVdIWdaVwVcWNRs2zX6ryEqdd2vnx5otsXpZpIqWAvPH9gA18+oc9SsVp9vbtXwDRElOII5x9Wten/s= ; Message-ID: <20041210231243.55528.qmail@web54205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.50.20.66] by web54205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:12:43 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1102712094.295.74225.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.247 From: nicole X-Yahoo-Profile: nicoletheknitter MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:12:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 454 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit aquila, i agree with you- of course we live in omelas. so what do we do about it? where do we walk away to? does it make it better to try to help children? to try to help the suffering people? to shop at fairtrade stores? or even to just be aware that as a middleclass westerner, i am profiting (even though i hate it) from the poor and the children in developing countries. money is tainted. is ursula simply just making us aware of this? there doesn't seem to be an answer. nicole --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 21:18:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.35]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 21:01:50 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2004 05:01:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2004 05:01:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38642 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2004 05:01:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2004 05:01:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.115) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2004 05:01:53 -0000 Received: from art (97.charlotte-02rh15rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.209.97]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2004121105015111100ij8eoe>; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 05:01:51 +0000 Message-ID: <009901c4df3e$82ca9f20$48eb4c0c@art> To: References: <155.459dfe36.2eeb3698@aol.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.115 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:01:16 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Omelas and other stories Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, There's a parallel between those who walk away from Omelas and the people of peace in The Eye Of The Heron who walk away from the exploitative society that demands their labor and their loyalty. The peaceful folk have tried reason, negotiation, civil disobedience, and finally a mass nonviolent confrontation, like Odo's general strike. When the oppressors use violence in response, Luz says it's time to just leave -- and so they do, a group of them at least, going into voluntary exile in the wilderness. It's a Taoist principle that to oppose something is to perpetuate it (and where does UKL say that -- Eye of the Heron, Always Coming Home? -- I don't remember). Walking away in both the stories is refusing to perpetuate the exploitation, the injustice. Come to think of it, that's what the main characters in Gifts do, too -- they leave. They refuse to use their gifts and their social position for destructive ends. Also, when the Dayao culture is about to self-destruct, Stone Telling and her friend and her daughter just walk away, back to the Valley of the Na. Melody ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 453 > > I may have mentioned this a year or so ago, the last time we discussed > Omelas, but one day I was trying to help some French students of English > understand the story, and it suddenly occurred to me that the story can be > represented by the yin/yang sign, a circle divided into black and white halves, with a > black spot in the white and a white spot in the black. If Omelas, the city > where everyone is supposed to be happy is represented by the white half, and > the black half represents the dark, mysterious world outside of Omelas where > supposedly there is suffering and unhappiness, then the child who suffers > could be the black dot and the ones who refuse to pay for their happiness with > his suffering and walk away would be the white dot. > > Le Guin doesn't tell us whether or not the child was born retarded or became > retarded because of its treatment, but I don't think that the fact that he > wouldn't be capable of appreciating better treatment justifies letting him > suffer. I think that the ones who walk away realize that any effort to help the > child is doomed by the society that has accepted his suffering as the price > of their happiness, and that the only way the child's abuse can truly stop is > for everyone in the city to walk away. Of course, this is a Taoist > attitude, "being" what they are by refusing the benefits of the child's existence > rather than "doing", or trying to lead a revolution. > > Judy > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 22:42:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.24]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:33:12 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2004 06:33:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2004 06:33:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: immanent_grove@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15137 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2004 06:33:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2004 06:33:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.49.13) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2004 06:33:15 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:33:14 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.161.123.236 by by14fd.bay14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 06:32:16 GMT X-Originating-Email: [immanent_grove@hotmail.com] X-Sender: immanent_grove@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Bcc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2004 06:33:14.0004 (UTC) FILETIME=[4A950D40:01C4DF4B] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.49.13 From: "Eric Kniffin" X-Originating-IP: [24.161.123.236] X-Yahoo-Profile: masterpatterner MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 01:32:16 -0500 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Omelas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You're right that some - many - in our world suffer for the well-being - or worse, the pleasure - of others. I am not aware of anyone suffering for the sake of anything I have, but rest assured that if I am supporting anything that practices that kind of business, I will stop supporting it the instant I become aware of it. If I live near a place where children are working in sweat shops, I'll be glad to go knock down the building, or whatever would help them most. Unfortunately, I don't have anything like the money needed to fly around the world to such places when we hear about them on the news. >From: "Aquila" >Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Omelas >Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:21:59 +1300 > >So I take it you are very careful to ensure that you don't buy sweat shop >clothes, that you campaign for things like good maternity leave and pay and >anything else that will bring the children of your country out of poverty. >That you volunteer at city missions or soup kitchens or whatever your >equivalent is. > >Now I don't know you or where you live, it's entirely posible you do. But >it >seems to me that children do suffer for how we live our lives. I've always >thought that we do live in Omelas - at least the well off in the developed >world do. > >Aquila _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Dec 11 08:09:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 01:00:11 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2004 09:00:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.200] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2004 09:00:11 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54467 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2004 09:00:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2004 09:00:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2004 09:00:10 -0000 Received: from du-040-0244.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.244] helo=oemcomputer) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cd36n-000ORR-Ds for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:00:09 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c4df5f$ce5ff9a0$f4749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <155.459dfe36.2eeb3698@aol.com> <009901c4df3e$82ca9f20$48eb4c0c@art> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.143 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:00:04 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Omelas and other stories Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have to chip in here and quote one of my favourite quotes from The Left Hand of Darkness - which I think may be the one you're looking for Melody (although there may be more than one). Estrevan is writing his diary when in Orgoreyn: "Guyrny Susmy. Slose heads a committee that purposes to suppress the obscene plays performed in public kemmerhouses here; they must be like the Karhidish huhuth. Slose opposes them because they are trivial, vulgar and blasphemous. To oppose something is to maintain it. They say here 'all roads lead to Mishnory'. To be sure, if you turn your back on Mishnory and walk away from it, you are still on the Mishnory road. To oppose vulgarity is inevitably to be vulgar. You must go somewhere else; you must have another goal; then you walk a different road.' This also chimes in with a Japanese proverb I am like to quote sometimes particularly at work - 'solve problems not blames.' Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody Ivins" To: Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 5:01 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Omelas and other stories > > It's a Taoist principle that to oppose something is to perpetuate it (and > where does UKL say that -- Eye of the Heron, Always Coming Home? -- I don't > remember). Walking away in both the stories is refusing to perpetuate the > exploitation, the injustice. > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sat Dec 11 08:10:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.35]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 06:15:52 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2004 14:15:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.200] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2004 14:15:53 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8915 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2004 14:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2004 14:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.117) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2004 14:15:52 -0000 Received: from art (unknown[12.76.215.1]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <2004121114154711300d80d6e>; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:15:47 +0000 Message-ID: <000601c4df8b$e74abe60$01d74c0c@art> To: References: <155.459dfe36.2eeb3698@aol.com> <009901c4df3e$82ca9f20$48eb4c0c@art> <001701c4df5f$ce5ff9a0$f4749ed9@oemcomputer> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.117 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:15:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Omelas and other stories Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Hannah, That's it! I'd forgotten about the road to Mishnory, which is exactly the point. Thank you. A road is a way, a tao, and the means is the end. Melody ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robins- one of" To: Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 4:00 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Omelas and other stories > > Have to chip in here and quote one of my favourite quotes from The Left Hand > of Darkness - which I think may be the one you're looking for Melody > (although there may be more than one). Estrevan is writing his diary when > in Orgoreyn: > "Guyrny Susmy. Slose heads a committee that purposes to suppress the obscene > plays performed in public kemmerhouses here; they must be like the > Karhidish huhuth. Slose opposes them because they are trivial, vulgar and > blasphemous. > To oppose something is to maintain it. > They say here 'all roads lead to Mishnory'. To be sure, if you turn your > back on Mishnory and walk away from it, you are still on the Mishnory road. > To oppose vulgarity is inevitably to be vulgar. You must go somewhere else; > you must have another goal; then you walk a different road.' > > This also chimes in with a Japanese proverb I am like to quote sometimes > particularly at work - 'solve problems not blames.' > > Hannah > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Melody Ivins" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 5:01 AM > Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Omelas and other stories > > > > > > It's a Taoist principle that to oppose something is to perpetuate it (and > > where does UKL say that -- Eye of the Heron, Always Coming Home? -- I > don't > > remember). Walking away in both the stories is refusing to perpetuate the > > exploitation, the injustice. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 12 07:05:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.38]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 00:30:20 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2004 08:30:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.156] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2004 08:30:19 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: laksov@yahoo.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9826 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2004 08:30:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2004 08:30:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.12.11.32) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2004 08:30:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (rcaneba@81.211.160.8 with plain) by smtp001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2004 08:30:16 -0000 Message-ID: <41BB301A.8060600@yahoo.it> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (Windows/20040803) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <155.459dfe36.2eeb3698@aol.com> <009901c4df3e$82ca9f20$48eb4c0c@art> <001701c4df5f$ce5ff9a0$f4749ed9@oemcomputer> <000601c4df8b$e74abe60$01d74c0c@art> In-Reply-To: <000601c4df8b$e74abe60$01d74c0c@art> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.12.11.32 From: Lakso Valimaki X-Yahoo-Profile: laksov MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 18:36:26 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Omelas and other stories Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Melody Ivins wrote: > the means is the end. In this other form "the end have to be the mean", this is also the main criticism that anarchists did to communism. r ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 12 21:51:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 15:41:51 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2004 23:41:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.94] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2004 23:41:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Riz@cambridgedocs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66490 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2004 23:41:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2004 23:41:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fe007.mail.lan) (69.25.74.34) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2004 23:41:52 -0000 Received: from MAIL007.mail.lan ([10.109.209.107]) by fe007.mail.lan with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 12 Dec 2004 18:41:51 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A417B07@MAIL007> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A417B07@MAIL007> Thread-Topic: [the-ekumen] Re: UKL on Earthsea movie Thread-Index: AcTe7S4e2eZFj8aJSIWbkl6NN5iKfQBtKirM To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2004 23:41:51.0320 (UTC) FILETIME=[2761DD80:01C4E0A4] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.25.74.34 From: "Riz Virk" X-Yahoo-Profile: rizwanv MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 18:41:51 -0500 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Re: UKL on Earthsea movie Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmm.... That would assume that UKL's comments were based only on the SciFi article; however, I seem to recall in that article that UKL was "given the script" so when she expresses her dis-satisfaction, I would assume it's not only from the article but her overall experience with the team that's making the mini-series in the first place, including how hey they've changed the "story". UKL: When I tried to suggest the unwisdom of making radical changes to characters, events, and relationships which have been familiar to hundreds of thousands of readers all over the world for over thirty years, I was sent a copy of the script and informed that production was already under way. I guess It may still be an entertaining mini-series, but it's highly unlikelly that they will be, as he says in the interview: " ... but we've been very, very honest to the books," explains director Rob Lieberman. "We've tried to capture all the levels of spiritualism, emotional content and metaphorical messages..." I actually spoke to some folks at the Sci Fi channel when they began writing the script for the mini-series and I questioned the wisdom of combining all three books into one mini-series, since each book carried different (though obviously inter-related) themes and even different main characters. It was pretty clear, even at that point, when they hadn't yet written the script that they weren't interested in any "feedback" about Earthsea - their attitude was "we know what Earthsea is about - don't bother us!" Now - since I was only a fan (though a knowledgeable one as I had done and shared an adapted script for A Wizard of Earthsea with them) I sort-of expected that kind of reaction ... But it's almost laughable to think that this was the same reaction they gave to UKL - the original author of Earthsea! You gotta love these Hollywood guys ...they push "audacity" to a whole new level! -Riz ---------------------------------------- Rizwan Virk CTO CambridgeDocs riz@cambridgedocs.com personal: riz@alum.mit.edu ________________________________ From: dsalo@softhome.net [mailto:dsalo@softhome.net] Sent: Fri 12/10/2004 2:18 PM To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: UKL on Earthsea movie Yahoo! Groups Survey Please help us to improve Yahoo! Groups. Take the survey now! David Bratman writes: > I don't recall this being mentioned here, but UKL a few weeks ago broke her > silence on the Earthsea film. She is not happy. > > Not so much about the film itself - she knew they'd muck that up - but > about the director and producer making clumsy and inaccurate statements on > what the books are about and what the author intended. It's certainly possible, even likely, that the director of the TV version misunderstood the themes of the Earthsea stories and made a hash of the actual production. But, having had a small amount of experience with entertainment reporting, I should say that the chances of Halmi's quote accurately reflecting his entire thought on the themes of Earthsea is not very great. For one thing, when bright lights and microphones are turned on people who are not very skilled verbally, they are apt to blurt out condensed versions of their thoughts that simply don't make any sense when reread in the cold light of day. Or, if they take the time to slowly and clearly explain what they mean, they will find that 95% of what they said has been cut and a near-meaningless fragment has been allowed to stand as a summary of everything they said. So while I have a lot of sympathy with UKL's reaction (especially to having ideas not hers attributed to her), I can also imagine that Halmi might wish he had spoken differently or had been quoted in greater detail about a complex subject. In any case I suppose his vision can be better judged by the artistic quality of his TV show (whether it really has anything to do with UKL's Earthsea or not) than by a lightweight "Sci Fi Magazine" promotional story. David ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 11:11:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.50]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:13:32 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2004 18:13:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.98] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2004 18:13:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 99447 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2004 18:13:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Dec 2004 18:13:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Dec 2004 18:13:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2004 18:12:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.184] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2004 18:12:32 -0000 X-Sender: david@therogoffs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72632 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2004 18:10:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Dec 2004 18:10:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Dec 2004 18:10:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2004 18:09:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.120] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2004 18:09:19 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.40 From: "David Rogoff" X-Originating-IP: 138.239.109.246 X-Yahoo-Profile: unfrostedpoptart X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 13 Dec 2004 18:12:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.39 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:09:17 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Oh no - "Left Hand of Darkness" video game! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, as we all get ready to watch the (likely) butchering of Earthsea tonight, there's more, potentially awful news: http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-12/13/11.00.film "Le Guin's Darkness Optioned Sandra Schulberg's Phobos Entertainment has picked up all media rights to Ursula K. Le Guin's SF novel The Left Hand of Darkness, Variety reported. First published in 1969, The Left Hand of Darkness is set on Winter, a lost planet whose inhabitants defy standard gender roles and even physically change genders. The story follows a human emissary who must bridge a cultural gulf to fulfill his mission to bring the planet back into the galactic fold, the trade paper reported. Schulberg plans to exploit the property as both a feature film and a video game, the trade paper reported. Schulberg's credits include Quills and Undisputed." David ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 13:48:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:12:50 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2004 19:12:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2004 19:12:52 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25650 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2004 19:12:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Dec 2004 19:12:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grunt14.ihug.co.nz) (203.109.254.61) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Dec 2004 19:12:51 -0000 Received: from p6-max1.akl.ihug.co.nz (hppav) [203.173.198.6] by grunt14.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Cdvbm-0005b3-00; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:11:47 +1300 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.109.254.61 From: "Aquila" X-Yahoo-Profile: aquila1nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:16:30 +1300 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Oh no - "Left Hand of Darkness" video game! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone else's jaw drop at the last sentence? How do you make something like Lefthand into a video game? Admittedly it has more action than some Le Guin, but how? Shall we start laying odds on Genly Ai's skin colour? Aquila > -----Original Message----- > From: David Rogoff [mailto:david@therogoffs.com] > Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 2004 7:09 a.m. > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [the-ekumen] Oh no - "Left Hand of Darkness" video game! > > > > > > Well, as we all get ready to watch the (likely) butchering of Earthsea > tonight, there's more, potentially awful news: > > http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-12/13/11.00.film > > "Le Guin's Darkness Optioned > > Sandra Schulberg's Phobos Entertainment has picked up all media rights > to Ursula K. Le Guin's SF novel The Left Hand of Darkness, Variety > reported. First published in 1969, The Left Hand of Darkness is set on > Winter, a lost planet whose inhabitants defy standard gender roles and > even physically change genders. The story follows a human emissary who > must bridge a cultural gulf to fulfill his mission to bring the planet > back into the galactic fold, the trade paper reported. > > Schulberg plans to exploit the property as both a feature film and a > video game, the trade paper reported. Schulberg's credits include > Quills and Undisputed." > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 13:48:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.48]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:45:16 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2004 19:45:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2004 19:45:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62810 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2004 19:45:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Dec 2004 19:45:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.253) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Dec 2004 19:45:04 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfll9.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.214.169] helo=computer) by pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Cdw7z-00047E-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:45:03 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.20041213113740.0099b390@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.253 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:43:27 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Oh no - "Left Hand of Darkness" video game! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Video games are entirely outside of my perceptual orbit. I'm trying to chew on this description: >The Left Hand of Darkness is set on >Winter, a lost planet Oh no, a lost planet! Have you seen my planet? I know it left it here somewhere. >whose inhabitants defy standard gender roles and >even physically change genders. Leaving aside the fact that that's not exactly what they do, the way in which these two claims are juxtaposed sounds anticlimactic. >The story follows a human emissary who >must bridge a cultural gulf to fulfill his mission to bring the planet >back into the galactic fold, the trade paper reported. "the trade paper reported," it says. This plot summary is just a rumor, you understand. Nobody there has actually gone so far as to read the book. Those of us whose other favorite books have already been made into films have had to endure this sort of blither for a long time. Jeering at it is the best response. David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 21:19:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.46]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:18:17 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 05:18:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 05:18:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8550 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 05:18:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 05:18:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.252) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 05:18:18 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfi6e.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.200.206] helo=computer) by pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ce54h-0005o7-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:18:16 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.20041213211554.00a279c0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.252 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:16:29 -0800 Subject: [the-ekumen] Reviews of Earthsea miniseries Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 22:23:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.41]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:34:27 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 05:34:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 05:34:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: david@therogoffs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3290 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 05:34:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 05:34:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 05:34:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 05:33:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.165] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 05:33:49 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.39 From: "David Rogoff" X-Originating-IP: 68.5.213.74 X-Yahoo-Profile: unfrostedpoptart MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 05:33:48 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No spoilers, other than saying it has nothing to do with EKL's books. I just turned off the TV less than five minutes into the show. I've been pretty wary of the miniseries from everything I've read. I also didn't like the A&E version of Lathe of Heaven (loved the PBS version). I know movies and books are different things. I loved Jackson's Lord of the Rings movies, and was only annoyed at a few of his changes. However, from just the opening narration and the first scene, it obvious that the screenplay writer has totally changed HUGE themes and storylines. I didn't mind from what I had read, that he brought in Tennar at the beginning, but this miniseries appears to have almost nothing to do with the books. It looks like it's just supposed to ride on the Lord of the Rings popularity of wizards and dragons and rings. And now we can wait in horror for the Left Hand of Darkness video game (quick - hit F5 to change gender!). What's after that - The Dispossessed trading cards? Oh well, at least the extended DVD of Return of the King will be out tomorrow! David ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 07:28:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.28]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 03:37:22 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 11:35:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 11:35:12 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: the_espresso_addict@fireflyuk.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34524 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 11:35:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 11:35:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 11:35:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 11:34:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.153] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 11:34:53 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.49 From: "tavia0" X-Originating-IP: 212.140.117.225 X-Yahoo-Profile: tavia0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:34:52 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Earthsea ficathon, anyone? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not sure whether fanfiction is on topic here, so forgive me if this doesn't fit the group's rules. I'm trying to organise an Earthsea ficathon to run after Christmas and wondered if anyone would be interested in taking part. (In case anyone doesn't know what I mean by ficathon... an even number of writers each put forward a request for a particular kind of story and an offer to write stories. The moderator matches requests to offers & the participants write the stories they've been assigned by a deadline. The stories are then published as a group.) RSVP if interested, or e-mail me at the_espresso_addict @ fireflyuk.net Thanks Tavia ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 07:28:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.40]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:26:17 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 15:26:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.160] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 15:26:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: mgoldfar@mobius.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72198 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 15:26:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 15:26:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 15:26:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 15:23:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.123] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 15:23:48 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.45 From: "Michael S. Goldfarb" X-Originating-IP: 204.126.130.10 X-Yahoo-Profile: msg_from_ny MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:23:48 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was AWFUL - even worse than I was braced for! Just a couple of scenes - notably those with Ogion and at Roke - vaguely retained the flavor of the books. And even those were so Gandalf-ized and Hogworts-ized as to be nearly unrecognizable. Mostly, it was a total loss: virtually none of the books' central themes remained. The script, acting, production design, etc. were WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! I watched it cringing, thinking of poor Ursula watching in Oregon. She must be utterly heartbroken... It will be interesting to see how angry she gets on her site. I thought her previous comments were (for her) pretty nasty, but I don't think we've seen anything yet. Frankly, this whole miniseries strikes me as something horrible that Ged disastrously summoned on Roke Knoll! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 07:38:02 2004 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Laura Quilter Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Cc: Bcc: ":lists:sf-femsf:the-ekumen" X-Attachments: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in u
Yes, I was ranty after only a very few minutes.

Here are my positives:
I thought Ged's boat was okay.  ... That's pretty much it, for
positives in terms of faithfully depicting any theme or story from
UKL's Earthsea.

Viewed as something COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the UKL "Earthsea",
then it was more watchable than, say, "The Real Gilligan's Island."

The Sun Times and Seattle Times reviewers (that David Bratman
forwarded) were really disappointing to me.  Had they read the
books?  One of them indicated that she had but I couldn't really
tell it from the things she said about the movie.

At 3:23 PM +0000 2004/12/14, Michael S. Goldfarb wrote:
It was AWFUL - even worse than I was braced for!

Just a couple of scenes - notably those with Ogion and at Roke -
vaguely retained the flavor of the books. And even those were so
Gandalf-ized and Hogworts-ized as to be nearly unrecognizable.
Mostly, it was a total loss: virtually none of the books' central
themes remained. The script, acting, production design, etc. were
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

I watched it cringing, thinking of poor Ursula watching in Oregon.
She must be utterly heartbroken...

It will be interesting to see how angry she gets on her site. I
thought her previous comments were (for her) pretty nasty, but I
don't think we've seen anything yet.

Frankly, this whole miniseries strikes me as something horrible that
Ged disastrously summoned on Roke Knoll!
 From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 08:03:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.35]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:42:25 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 15:41:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 15:41:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: lq2@feministsf.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61159 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 15:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 15:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO typhoon.he.net) (64.62.229.2) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 15:41:21 -0000 Received: from 67.169.130.233 ([67.169.130.233]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:38:08 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.2.1 Macintosh To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.62.229.2 From: Laura Quilter MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:38:01 -0800 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I was ranty after only a very few minutes. Here are my positives: I thought Ged's boat was okay. ... That's pretty much it, for positives in terms of faithfully depicting any theme or story from UKL's Earthsea. Viewed as something COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the UKL "Earthsea", then it was more watchable than, say, "The Real Gilligan's Island." The Sun Times and Seattle Times reviewers (that David Bratman forwarded) were really disappointing to me. Had they read the books? One of them indicated that she had but I couldn't really tell it from the things she said about the movie. At 3:23 PM +0000 2004/12/14, Michael S. Goldfarb wrote: >It was AWFUL - even worse than I was braced for! > >Just a couple of scenes - notably those with Ogion and at Roke - >vaguely retained the flavor of the books. And even those were so >Gandalf-ized and Hogworts-ized as to be nearly unrecognizable. >Mostly, it was a total loss: virtually none of the books' central >themes remained. The script, acting, production design, etc. were >WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! > >I watched it cringing, thinking of poor Ursula watching in Oregon. >She must be utterly heartbroken... > >It will be interesting to see how angry she gets on her site. I >thought her previous comments were (for her) pretty nasty, but I >don't think we've seen anything yet. > >Frankly, this whole miniseries strikes me as something horrible that >Ged disastrously summoned on Roke Knoll! > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 08:03:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:44:41 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 15:44:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.97] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 15:44:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68367 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 15:44:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 15:44:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (66.54.152.27) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 15:44:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 9286 invoked by uid 417); 14 Dec 2004 15:44:37 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (172.16.3.10) by shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 15:44:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 9283 invoked by uid 417); 14 Dec 2004 15:44:37 -0000 Received: from mambo-.softhome.net (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.2.15) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 15:44:37 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 417) by softhome.net with local; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:44:37 -0700 References: In-Reply-To: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net Message-ID: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.54.152.27 From: dsalo@softhome.net X-Originating-IP: [144.92.115.106] X-Yahoo-Profile: iiipitaka MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:44:37 -0700 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael S. Goldfarb writes: > I watched it cringing, thinking of poor Ursula watching in Oregon. > She must be utterly heartbroken... You think she'd actually watch it? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 08:17:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:04:46 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 16:03:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.195] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 16:03:55 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: Riz@cambridgedocs.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20081 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 16:03:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 16:03:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fe007.mail.lan) (69.25.74.34) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 16:03:52 -0000 Received: from MAIL007.mail.lan ([10.109.209.107]) by fe007.mail.lan with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:03:51 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A417B16@MAIL007> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Thread-Index: AcTh8128i2VK+tedQWiU1wLOk1ndfQAAGJ73 To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Dec 2004 16:03:51.0267 (UTC) FILETIME=[80D20B30:01C4E1F6] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.25.74.34 From: "Riz Virk" X-Yahoo-Profile: rizwanv MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:03:51 -0500 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi everyone, The first five minutes were terrible - all the talk about "good and evil" and the "nameless ones" - evil beings who almost took over all of earthsea , and Ged being how old? at the beginning ... I too was crining and thinking of turning it off. But then, it got faithful to the books for a little while (if you ignore Ged's age and his village "girlfriend") and I suddenly enjoyed watching it, happy to see the Isle of Gont, Ged's trip to Roke aboard the Shadow (alas, another detail that they didn't put in) and the (granted, very Hogwarts-like) rendition of Roke - places that I had envisioned in my own imagination for a long time and even though I didn't agree with the renditions, seeing them was kind of fun! Of course you had to ignore the fact that all the people were white (! ), all the talk about good and evil (!!), all the scenes of Isabelle Rosallini (??!!), Kossil (????!!!!), the Karg King who was going to take over all of Earthsea (????!!!!!!), the Nameless Ones (!#%&) and "sister Tenar" (!?*) praying and the power of their faith (groan...)... praying to to whom? Jesus (???#X*&!!??)....and the invasion of Roke (?#&*X!!?!!!!!!!!!!!) Well, OK I guess it was pretty bad, but as a hardcore Earthsea fan, I can't help but keep watching tonight ... Then again, perhaps we should set up a fund to buy the rights and re-do it to be more faithful to the books? Oh yeah, I forgot, Ursula already sold the rights to the sci fi channel and we wouldn't be able to pay her nearly as much as they did, nor would her literary agency (Virginia Kidd) approve anyone writing a more faithful screenplay, especially if they can't pay as much as the sci fi channel, and *especially not* if their motivation was that they believed in the material! Oh well, I guess Ursula got what she/Virginia Kidd bargained for ($$$), and the Sci Fi channel got what they paid good money for (a cartoonish version that is all about "good-and-evil boy-meets-girl and saves the world" ) ! In the end, it's the devout fans who really miss out ... -Riz ---------------------------------------- Rizwan Virk CTO CambridgeDocs riz@cambridgedocs.com personal: riz@alum.mit.edu ________________________________ From: Laura Quilter [mailto:lq2@feministsf.org] Sent: Tue 12/14/2004 10:38 AM To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Yes, I was ranty after only a very few minutes. Here are my positives: I thought Ged's boat was okay. ... That's pretty much it, for positives in terms of faithfully depicting any theme or story from UKL's Earthsea. Viewed as something COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the UKL "Earthsea", then it was more watchable than, say, "The Real Gilligan's Island." The Sun Times and Seattle Times reviewers (that David Bratman forwarded) were really disappointing to me. Had they read the books? One of them indicated that she had but I couldn't really tell it from the things she said about the movie. At 3:23 PM +0000 2004/12/14, Michael S. Goldfarb wrote: >It was AWFUL - even worse than I was braced for! > >Just a couple of scenes - notably those with Ogion and at Roke - >vaguely retained the flavor of the books. And even those were so >Gandalf-ized and Hogworts-ized as to be nearly unrecognizable. >Mostly, it was a total loss: virtually none of the books' central >themes remained. The script, acting, production design, etc. were >WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! > >I watched it cringing, thinking of poor Ursula watching in Oregon. >She must be utterly heartbroken... > >It will be interesting to see how angry she gets on her site. I >thought her previous comments were (for her) pretty nasty, but I >don't think we've seen anything yet. > >Frankly, this whole miniseries strikes me as something horrible that >Ged disastrously summoned on Roke Knoll! > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 11:23:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.24]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:17:27 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 19:17:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 19:17:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 71868 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 19:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 19:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 19:17:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 19:16:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.122] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 19:16:56 -0000 X-Sender: swamp_canary@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9591 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 16:15:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 16:15:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.174.52) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 16:15:06 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:15:01 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 216.240.84.76 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:14:40 GMT X-Originating-Email: [swamp_canary@hotmail.com] X-Sender: swamp_canary@hotmail.com To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Bcc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Dec 2004 16:15:01.0549 (UTC) FILETIME=[1056F5D0:01C4E1F8] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.174.52 From: "Virginia Ryan" X-Originating-IP: [216.240.84.76] X-Yahoo-Profile: kemtri98 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 14 Dec 2004 19:16:54 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.40 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:14:40 -0600 Subject: [the-ekumen] Dragonfly Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey folks, I re-read _Dragonfly_ last night (from _Tales from Earthsea_) and was struck by how the latter half of the story mirrors the current political situation in America. This is after Ged has ceased being archmage, and Thorion the Summoner (dead, but still breathing) is making a move to become archmage. The Masters of Roke are divided, but Thorion's party is numerically superior. Everything is in turmoil. All the portents signify change, but the situation is frozen, stagnant. Compare Thorion (devoid of life, but full of power) to our president. Consider our war in Iraq: the situation is chaotic, but there is no progress, no end in sight. Then there are the minority Masters of Roke, who know that Thorion is the wrong choice for archmage, but cannot produce a better alternative. Sounds a lot like the democratic party. The whole situation is dangerously unbalanced. Consider what the Patterner said: "'When the balance is wrong, holding still is not good. It must get more wrong,' said the Patterner. 'Until - ' He made a quick gesture of reversal with his open hands, down going up and up down." What dragon will come to deliver us? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 09:02:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:44:53 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 16:44:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.193] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 16:44:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53455 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 16:44:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 16:44:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratanakiri.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.37) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 16:44:52 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by ratanakiri.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iBEGi0JO001128 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:44:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:44:07 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20041214164406.GC31490@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A417B16@MAIL007> In-Reply-To: <90ED4799E0BB8F499A6F8C91A986267A417B16@MAIL007> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.246.141.37 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:44:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Riz Virk scripsit: > Oh well, I guess Ursula got what she/Virginia Kidd bargained for > ($$$), and the Sci Fi channel got what they paid good money for (a > cartoonish version that is all about "good-and-evil boy-meets-girl > and saves the world" ) ! As Tolkien said in a letter to his son (and future editor) Christopher back in 1957: They have apparently toured America shooting mountain and desert scenes that seem to fit the story. The Story Line or Scenario was, however, on a lower level. In fact bad. But it looks as if business might be done. Stanley [Unwin, Tolkien's publisher] & I have agreed on our policy: Art or Cash. Either very profitable terms indeed; or absolute author's veto on objectionable features or alterations. Of course that movie was never made. The fact that _LHOD_ has been optioned doesn't mean it'll be made either; we might see something in ten years. Or not. > In the end, it's the devout fans who really miss out ... Alas. -- All Gaul is divided into three parts: the part John Cowan that cooks with lard and goose fat, the part www.ccil.org/~cowan that cooks with olive oil, and the part that www.reutershealth.com cooks with butter. -- David Chessler jcowan@reutershealth.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 09:02:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:58:43 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 16:58:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 16:58:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: hhw@sondryfolk.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64130 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 16:58:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 16:58:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay03.pair.com) (209.68.5.17) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 16:58:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 52284 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 16:58:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.1.2?) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 16:58:42 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 67.164.34.90 X-Sender: hhw@mail.sondryfolk.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.68.5.17 From: heather whipple X-Yahoo-Profile: hhwsondry MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:57:39 -0800 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >The Sun Times and Seattle Times reviewers (that David Bratman >forwarded) were really disappointing to me. Had they read the >books? One of them indicated that she had but I couldn't really >tell it from the things she said about the movie. The NYT review concluded with a paragraph that gave UKL full credit/responsibility for the movie plot -- it was obvious that the reviewer knew nothing of the books and assumed they were similar. Very frustrating. Heather, who did not watch -- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . heather whipple hhw@sondryfolk.net http://www.sondryfolk.net/hhw ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 15:02:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.44]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:03:20 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 20:03:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 20:03:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: helander@neteze.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95363 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 20:02:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 20:02:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 20:02:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 20:02:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.122] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 20:02:48 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.47 From: "Carol" X-Originating-IP: 64.66.192.62 X-Yahoo-Profile: cfluz7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:02:47 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] horrid beyond belief Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think I made it to the part where Ogion (dig the flashy clothes!) brings "back" the dead Ged (now how did the greasy peasants get his perfect corpse out of the deep?...never mind) and I quit swearing and switched to "The Philadelphia Story" on TCM. It would have been a silly, heavy handed, hollywood fantasy attempt which would have just illicted a groan but this is a great tale, stripped of anything that gave it beauty or meaning which damn near makes it a tragedy. Just tell yourselves kids, "it's just a movie". Carol ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 15:02:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.48]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:46:44 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 20:46:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 20:46:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 12337 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 20:46:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 20:46:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.24) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 20:46:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 20:46:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.141] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 20:46:29 -0000 X-Sender: dmcadow@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95085 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 20:21:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 20:21:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 20:21:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 20:21:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.183] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 20:21:12 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.50 From: dmcadow@yahoo.com X-Originating-IP: 169.237.51.172 X-Yahoo-Profile: dmcadow X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 14 Dec 2004 20:45:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.24 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:20:54 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was awful...not just what they did to the world of Earthsea, but the script, the effects, the cast, etc. It's practically unwatchable. I winced every time there was a reference to magic, to places, to people from the novels...it's all wrong. I never imagined Earthsea as so thoroughly Northern European. What drew me to Earthsea was the medley of human cultures, magic and religion that UKL had used to make that world. It rings so true...but not so in the TV mini-series. And why are the priestesses this weird mix of Snow White, Sleeping Beauty and the Virgin Mary? That King Tygath character...constantly snotty, wise-cracking, jiggling his head back and forth as he delivers his lines. And how did the creature from "Alien" become Ged's shadow? (That's what I thought when it first appeared.) Ugh. The dialogue...that one reviewer was right...it sounds as though it were spit-out by a computer. And there's too much of it...I wouldn't be surprised to hear one character say, "And now, I shall walk across the room," and the other say, "I shall watch you walk across the room and we shall continue our conversation." I actually think things wouldn't have been as bad if they had practiced some restraint and went with a "less is more" approach to EVERYTHING. It's so overdone, processed, formulaic, corny, stupid... Yeah, you could say I'm a very disappointed. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 15:03:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:31:59 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 21:32:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 21:32:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: vincent@xaymaca.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57626 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 21:32:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 21:32:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server3.3mountain.com) (69.20.125.225) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 21:32:00 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.151] (ip67-153-106-58.z106-153-67.customer.algx.net [67.153.106.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by server3.3mountain.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBELVxCE008131 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:31:59 -0500 Message-ID: <41BF5BCE.6030102@xaymaca.com> Organization: Aaxis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.20.125.225 From: Vincent X-Yahoo-Profile: vks_jamaica MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:31:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Dragonfly Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great letter, it's has been a while since I've read the original books. Should I reread the originals before tackling the "new" material? Vincent Virginia Ryan wrote: > > Hey folks, > > I re-read _Dragonfly_ last night (from _Tales from Earthsea_) and was > struck by how the latter half of the story mirrors the current political > situation in America. > > This is after Ged has ceased being archmage, and Thorion the Summoner > (dead, but still breathing) is making a move to become archmage. The > Masters of Roke are divided, but Thorion's party is numerically superior. > Everything is in turmoil. All the portents signify change, but the > situation is frozen, stagnant. > > Compare Thorion (devoid of life, but full of power) to our president. > Consider our war in Iraq: the situation is chaotic, but there is no > progress, no end in sight. Then there are the minority Masters of Roke, > who > know that Thorion is the wrong choice for archmage, but cannot produce a > better alternative. Sounds a lot like the democratic party. The whole > situation is dangerously unbalanced. > > Consider what the Patterner said: > "'When the balance is wrong, holding still is not good. It must get more > wrong,' said the Patterner. 'Until - ' He made a quick gesture of reversal > with his open hands, down going up and up down." > > What dragon will come to deliver us? > > > > > > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > -- Plato is my friend, Aristotle is my friend, but my greatest friend is truth. - Isaac Newton ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 15:03:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.39]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:36:43 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 21:36:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2004 21:36:44 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: vincent@xaymaca.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1737 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 21:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 21:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server3.3mountain.com) (69.20.125.225) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 21:36:43 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.151] (ip67-153-106-58.z106-153-67.customer.algx.net [67.153.106.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by server3.3mountain.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBELagen008583 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:36:43 -0500 Message-ID: <41BF5CEA.9020505@xaymaca.com> Organization: Aaxis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.20.125.225 From: Vincent X-Yahoo-Profile: vks_jamaica MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:36:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I have part 1 waiting for me on my DVR. It's been a while since I've read the books, so everything is new to me again. I am interested in getting back into that world again (in book form). I will watch part 1 tonight while I record part 2 for tomorrow and let everyone know what I think. Vincent David Rogoff wrote: > > No spoilers, other than saying it has nothing to do with EKL's books. > > I just turned off the TV less than five minutes into the show. I've > been pretty wary of the miniseries from everything I've read. I also > didn't like the A&E version of Lathe of Heaven (loved the PBS > version). I know movies and books are different things. I loved > Jackson's Lord of the Rings movies, and was only annoyed at a few of > his changes. > > However, from just the opening narration and the first scene, it > obvious that the screenplay writer has totally changed HUGE themes and > storylines. I didn't mind from what I had read, that he brought in > Tennar at the beginning, but this miniseries appears to have almost > nothing to do with the books. It looks like it's just supposed to > ride on the Lord of the Rings popularity of wizards and dragons and > rings. > > And now we can wait in horror for the Left Hand of Darkness video game > (quick - hit F5 to change gender!). What's after that - The > Dispossessed trading cards? > > Oh well, at least the extended DVD of Return of the King will be out > tomorrow! > > David > > > > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > -- Plato is my friend, Aristotle is my friend, but my greatest friend is truth. - Isaac Newton ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 18:17:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:35:21 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 01:35:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 01:35:24 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20782 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2004 01:35:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2004 01:35:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.115) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2004 01:35:23 -0000 Received: from art (69.charlotte-05rh15-16rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.214.69]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2004121501352111100ik0ime>; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:35:22 +0000 Message-ID: <003c01c4e246$5a255280$45d64c0c@art> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.115 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:35:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Earthsea ficathon, anyone? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tavia, You might want to check UKL's website for her feelings about fanfic before proceeding. She says something like: write it if you like, share it with your friends, but please do not publish it, even / especially on the internet. She goes on to say that the worlds and people she creates are drawn from her deepest self, and seeing them appropriated by anyone else causes her great pain. Odd and sad to think on this while the wretched Earthsea mini is playing, which looks like the ickiest sort of fanfic, but with a huge budget. I hope UKL isn't watching. I hope she's in Venice, eating panettone and getting lost in the galleries. Melody ----- Original Message ----- From: "tavia0" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 6:34 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Earthsea ficathon, anyone? > > > I'm not sure whether fanfiction is on topic here, so forgive me if > this doesn't fit the group's rules. > > I'm trying to organise an Earthsea ficathon to run after Christmas > and wondered if anyone would be interested in taking part. > > (In case anyone doesn't know what I mean by ficathon... an even > number of writers each put forward a request for a particular kind of > story and an offer to write stories. The moderator matches requests > to offers & the participants write the stories they've been assigned > by a deadline. The stories are then published as a group.) > > RSVP if interested, or e-mail me at the_espresso_addict @ > fireflyuk.net > > Thanks > Tavia > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 18:18:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.28]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:56:31 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 01:56:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.96] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 01:56:33 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17939 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2004 01:56:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2004 01:56:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.116) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2004 01:56:31 -0000 Received: from art (69.charlotte-05rh15-16rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.214.69]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2004121501562611200lu7jqe>; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:56:26 +0000 Message-ID: <004b01c4e249$4be056e0$45d64c0c@art> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.116 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:56:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Earthsea ficathon, anyone? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . Hello again, I just visited UKL's site ( http://www.ursulakleguin.com ) and re-read the FAQ on fan fiction. Here it is. Melody What is your policy on fan fiction set in your worlds and using your characters? It's all right with me - it's really none of my business - if people want to write stories for themselves & their friends using names and places from my work, but these days, thanks to the Web, "stuff for friends" gets sent out all over the place and put where it doesn't belong and mistaken for the genuine article, and can cause both confusion and real, legal trouble. As for anybody publishing any story "derived from" my stuff, I am absolutely opposed to it & have never given anyone permission to do so. It is lovely to "share worlds" if your imagination works that way, but mine doesn't; to me, it's not sharing but an invasion, literally - strangers coming in and taking over the country I live in, my heartland. This applies, of course, to fiction only. I have given permission to all sorts of script writers, playwrights, musicians, dancers, etc. to use my stuff for performance pieces, and collaborated happily with many of them. That's different. That's a gas! Collaboration is one thing, co-optation is another. - UKL A note from UKL's literary agency: No formal policy but as with any of our authors we would object strongly on her behalf if anyone were to publish either stories or books using her characters and situations. Writing for your own pleasure is one thing but disseminating it is something else. It used to be that fan fiction would reach only a specific audience -- a close circle of friends and acquaintances. But with the Web things have changed. - Virginia Kidd Literary Agency ----- Original Message ----- From: "tavia0" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 6:34 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Earthsea ficathon, anyone? > > > I'm not sure whether fanfiction is on topic here, so forgive me if > this doesn't fit the group's rules. > > I'm trying to organise an Earthsea ficathon to run after Christmas > and wondered if anyone would be interested in taking part. > > (In case anyone doesn't know what I mean by ficathon... an even > number of writers each put forward a request for a particular kind of > story and an offer to write stories. The moderator matches requests > to offers & the participants write the stories they've been assigned > by a deadline. The stories are then published as a group.) > > RSVP if interested, or e-mail me at the_espresso_addict @ > fireflyuk.net > > Thanks > Tavia > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 14 22:46:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.24]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:25:47 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 04:25:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 04:25:50 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23448 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2004 04:25:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2004 04:25:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out003.verizon.net) (206.46.170.103) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2004 04:25:49 -0000 Received: from Zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.223.81.150]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041215042543.GJVW1106.out003.verizon.net@Zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:25:43 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041214231850.02199b10@incoming.verizon.net> X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [64.223.81.150] at Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:25:43 -0600 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.46.170.103 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:25:55 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Further Comments from UKL on the SciFi Travesty Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone -- I just found a pointer to another opinion piece by Ursula: "Earthsea in Chlorox" from The Agony Column http://trashotron.com/agony/columns/2004/12-15-04.htm Favorite line: "I do remember saying to my husband, oh, gee, I bet they're going to have a honky Ged." -- Janice, glad to have forgotten when part 1 was airing ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Ensemble Al Kindi & Sheikh Habboush -- Aleppian Sufi Trance "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 10:05:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.38]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 02:18:52 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 10:18:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 10:18:52 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: the_espresso_addict@fireflyuk.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81659 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2004 10:18:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2004 10:18:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2004 10:18:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 10:18:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.112] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 10:18:48 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004b01c4e249$4be056e0$45d64c0c@art> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.16 From: "tavia0" X-Originating-IP: 213.1.45.10 X-Yahoo-Profile: tavia0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:18:42 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Earthsea ficathon, anyone? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It's all right with me - it's really none of my business - if people want to > write stories for themselves & their friends using names and places from my > work, but these days, thanks to the Web, "stuff for friends" gets sent out > all over the place and put where it doesn't belong and mistaken for the > genuine article, and can cause both confusion and real, legal trouble. Thanks, Melody. I've set up a workshop-type livejournal community, so we can write & share without impinging on the wider Web: http://www.livejournal.com/community/earthsea_fic/ Tavia ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 16:53:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.50]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:59:28 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 23:59:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 23:59:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: anariska@smartt.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38952 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2004 23:59:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2004 23:59:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bpd2mo2no.prod.shawcable.com) (64.59.128.220) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2004 23:59:29 -0000 Received: from bpd2mi3no.prod.shawcable.com (bpd2mi3no-qfe3.prod.shawcable.com [10.0.184.122]) by bpd2mo2no.prod.shawcable.com (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0I8S0067FFYTVTD0@bpd2mo2no.prod.shawcable.com> for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:59:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from umc06b ([24.87.252.235]) by bpd2mi3no.prod.shawcable.com (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with SMTP id <0I8S00A2NFYSUC00@bpd2mi3no.prod.shawcable.com> for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:59:17 -0700 (MST) To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <001201c4e302$7b9af890$3201a8c0@umc06b> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <1103127772.321.34147.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.59.128.220 From: Susan Armstrong X-Yahoo-Profile: anariska MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:27:55 -0800 Subject: [the-ekumen] wresting humour from the jaws of defeat Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- [snip] > Favorite line: "I do remember saying to my husband, oh, gee, I bet they're > going to have a honky Ged." > > -- Janice, glad to have forgotten when part 1 was airing ROTFL I don't get the Sci Fi channel here in Canada, so I haven't had the pleasure of watching "Earthsea". (Your posts remind me of a succinct review of a certain 1960's Hollywood movie: "All agony, no ecstasy.") I'd like to throw down the gauntlet: Anyone want to post a a -style version of Left Hand of Darkness? Or any other UKL work for that matter? - Susan ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 16:53:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.48]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:40:42 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 21:40:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2004 21:40:44 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30555 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2004 21:40:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2004 21:40:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2004 21:40:41 -0000 Received: from du-040-0062.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.62] helo=oemcomputer) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cegsy-000Oxq-DX for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:40:40 +0000 Message-ID: <004d01c4e2ee$b71ad7a0$3e749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041214231850.02199b10@incoming.verizon.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.143 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:40:36 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Further Comments from UKL on the SciFi Travesty Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's an excelleny article Janice thank you. Glad to have had no opportunity to see the miniseries Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janice E. Dawley" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 4:25 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Further Comments from UKL on the SciFi Travesty > > Hi everyone -- > > I just found a pointer to another opinion piece by Ursula: > > "Earthsea in Chlorox" from The Agony Column > http://trashotron.com/agony/columns/2004/12-15-04.htm > > Favorite line: "I do remember saying to my husband, oh, gee, I bet they're > going to have a honky Ged." > > -- Janice, glad to have forgotten when part 1 was airing > > ----- > Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT > http://therem.net/ > Listening to: Ensemble Al Kindi & Sheikh Habboush -- Aleppian Sufi Trance > "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, > with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 23:24:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:39:40 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 01:39:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 01:39:43 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: anariska@smartt.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95000 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 01:39:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 01:39:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smartt.com) (209.52.5.253) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 01:39:42 -0000 Received: from owner-pwwcu41bn.smartt.com (burn-ma04046.smartt.com [209.52.3.118]) by smartt.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iBG1ddaC004819 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:39:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20041215172934.01d70c10@mail.smartt.com> X-Sender: anariska@mail.smartt.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.64 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on ktk6 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.52.5.253 From: Susan Armstrong X-Yahoo-Profile: anariska MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:39:44 -0800 Subject: [the-ekumen] wresting humour from the jaws of defeat Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- [snip] > Favorite line: "I do remember saying to my husband, oh, gee, I bet they're > going to have a honky Ged." > > -- Janice, glad to have forgotten when part 1 was airing ROTFL I don't get the Sci Fi channel here in Canada, so I haven't had the pleasure of watching "Earthsea". (Your posts remind me of a succinct review of a certain 1960's Hollywood movie: "All agony, no ecstasy.") I'm going to throw down the gauntlet: Anyone want to post a scenario for a Halmi-style travesty, *erm*, adaptation of Left Hand of Darkness? Or any other UKL work for that matter? Go wild. ;-) - Susan (P.S. if anyone got this twice - I had to repost it because I sent it unfinished before. Butterfingers.) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 23:24:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.35]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:40:54 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 02:40:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.200] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 02:40:56 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51274 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 02:40:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 02:40:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.253) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 02:40:55 -0000 Received: from user-38ldtqg.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.247.80] helo=computer) by pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CelZX-0006HE-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:40:55 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.20041215183312.00a1ed00@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.1.20041215172934.01d70c10@mail.smartt.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.253 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:39:01 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] wresting humour from the jaws of defeat Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 05:39 PM 12/15/2004 -0800, Susan wrote: >I'm going to throw down the gauntlet: Anyone want to post a scenario for a >Halmi-style travesty, *erm*, adaptation of Left Hand of Darkness? Genly Ai is white. Estraven is a woman. In the Halmi "Dispossessed", Shevek is so happy to be off of that horrible socialist prison planet that he applies for asylum on the mercy of the Urrasti government (they only have one) and happily goes off shopping. Of course he never returns to Anarres. David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 15 23:24:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:52:31 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 03:52:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 03:52:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: immanent_grove@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45495 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 03:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 03:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.49.12) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 03:52:33 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:51:02 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 209.210.34.28 by by14fd.bay14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 03:50:48 GMT X-Originating-Email: [immanent_grove@hotmail.com] X-Sender: immanent_grove@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Bcc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Dec 2004 03:51:02.0240 (UTC) FILETIME=[76107600:01C4E322] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.49.12 From: "Eric Kniffin" X-Originating-IP: [209.210.34.28] X-Yahoo-Profile: masterpatterner MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:50:48 -0500 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >From: "David Rogoff" >I just turned off the TV less than five minutes into the show. I lasted a full 16 minutes! It was excrutiating, but I thought it HAD to get better. I mean, if COULDN'T be that bad for long, right? Wrong. _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:25:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.16]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 23:43:28 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 07:43:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 07:43:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 72805 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 07:43:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 07:43:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 07:43:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 07:43:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.170] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 07:43:25 -0000 X-Sender: titillyana@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10462 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 06:55:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 06:55:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.56.80) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 06:55:00 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:55:00 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 207.144.100.28 by BAY101-DAV8.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 06:54:59 +0000 X-Originating-Email: [titillyana@hotmail.com] X-Sender: titillyana@hotmail.com To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Dec 2004 06:55:00.0466 (UTC) FILETIME=[295C1520:01C4E33C] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.56.80 From: "Tasia Chiba" X-Originating-IP: [207.144.100.28] X-Yahoo-Profile: lillycat12 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 16 Dec 2004 07:43:25 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.51 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 01:55:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Earthsea miniseries: I turned it off in under 5 minutes in disgust Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder if I'm one of the increasingly few to watch this travesty to its sordid end. I'm cursed with this tendency to always finish something I've started. I didn't go this journey alone, however. I took it bravely with my thirteen year old brother, who has also read A Wizard of Earthsea. And the two of us spent the remaining time desperately trying to set the story straight to the rest of our family. I think my brother's outrage was worse than my own, considering he spent most of the time gasping and saying, "But that's not right!". I would like to say that I was most glad to read The Agony Column's interview with UKL. The Earthsea series has always been a series dear to my heart. But the miniseries was like taking a sledgehammer to a fragile piece of glass. I gave up saying anything about it after the first part and decided that, although it bore the series name, character names, was set in the same world, and made note of a few "key" actions in the series, it was nothing more than a cheap miniseries riding on the name and fame of a much greater work. Needless to say, I loved the analogy that was sent to this ML that the miniseries was in fact a showy "fanfic." Oh yes, the statement met my perceptions perfectly! So I leave with: chin up, everyone! Let's hope for a second go, and a truly faithful one at that! ~Tasia Chiba ^_~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:25:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 23:56:42 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 07:56:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 07:56:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ferhat@ceng.metu.edu.tr X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15016 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 07:56:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 07:56:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 07:56:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 07:56:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.183] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 07:56:28 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.43 From: "alitamur" X-Originating-IP: 81.215.37.183 X-Yahoo-Profile: alitamur MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 07:55:51 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Dragons of the Earthsea Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, Very glad to see lively discussions on the group. Something (the "ontology" of the dragons) bothers me in Earthsea books, and I would like to have your opinion. - In the end of Tehanu, why does Tehanu call Kalessin "Segoy"? Kalessin is also called "the eldest", but would it mean that it is actually Segoy, who spoke the first word and thus created Earthsea? I'm comfortable with what we learn in "The Other Wind"; that the dragons and human beings have descended from the same origin, and that the dragons have chosen freedom and the wind, and time does not mean the same for us and for them, all very well. Dragon as human-beast, dragon as mythical-animal (like Coyote in North American mythology) is good. Dragon as "the" creator, dragon who knows the future (like Kalessin in the end of Tehanu), I'm not sure. Ali, (who's glad that he did not and could not see the miniseries) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:28:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.40]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:14:26 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 18:14:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 18:14:27 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41147 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 18:14:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 18:14:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratanakiri.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.37) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 18:14:26 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by ratanakiri.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iBGIEMsV016007 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:14:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:14:28 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20041216181400.GA4257@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.246.141.37 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:14:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Dragonfly Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Virginia Ryan scripsit: > What dragon will come to deliver us? None will, nor should. This is the Age of the Dominion of Men, and we have to solve our own problems. Le Guin even tells us that the Lords of Elfland "do not exist on this earth". But then again, "What kind of solution is it to the Problem of Evil to drop a magic ring into an imaginary volcano?" -- "Mos Eisley spaceport. You will never John Cowan see a more wretched hive of scum and jcowan@reutershealth.com villainy -- unless you watch the http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Jerry Springer Show." --georgettesworld.com http://www.reutershealth.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:28:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.45]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:56:45 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 18:56:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.157] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 18:56:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: kim.mccollum-clark@millersville.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39296 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 18:56:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 18:56:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rwcrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.198.35) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 18:56:42 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (pcp05145051pcs.montvl01.pa.comcast.net[69.139.73.136]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004121618245701300fua8te>; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:24:57 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20041216181400.GA4257@skunk.reutershealth.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.198.35 From: Kim McCollum-Clark X-Yahoo-Profile: kimmccollum MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:24:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Dragonfly Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Friends, I wanted to alert you to a recent (very!) response by UKL to the Earthsea debacle in the online magazine SLATE, found at slate.msn.com. I think it is titled, The Sci Fi Channel Ruined My Books. You will see the headline on the front page of the magazine. I would have to quarrel with UKL on that note, though. Nothing could ruin her books for those of us who have read them. Its so great to have some traffic on this group! Kim On 12/16/04 1:14 PM, "John Cowan" wrote: > > > Virginia Ryan scripsit: > >> > What dragon will come to deliver us? > > None will, nor should. This is the Age of the Dominion of Men, and we have > to solve our own problems. Le Guin even tells us that the Lords of Elfland > "do not exist on this earth". > > But then again, "What kind of solution is it to the Problem of Evil to drop > a magic ring into an imaginary volcano?" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:28:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.41]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:31:39 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 18:31:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.192] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 18:31:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: vincent@xaymaca.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81192 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 18:31:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 18:31:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server3.3mountain.com) (69.20.125.225) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 18:31:39 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.151] (ip67-153-106-58.z106-153-67.customer.algx.net [67.153.106.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by server3.3mountain.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBGIUqTU004628 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:30:52 -0500 Message-ID: <41C1D45C.8040209@xaymaca.com> Organization: Aaxis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <20041216181400.GA4257@skunk.reutershealth.com> In-Reply-To: <20041216181400.GA4257@skunk.reutershealth.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.20.125.225 From: Vincent X-Yahoo-Profile: vks_jamaica MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:30:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Dragonfly Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Cowan wrote: > Virginia Ryan scripsit: > > > What dragon will come to deliver us? > > None will, nor should. This is the Age of the Dominion of Men, and we have > to solve our own problems. Le Guin even tells us that the Lords of Elfland > "do not exist on this earth". > > But then again, "What kind of solution is it to the Problem of Evil to drop > a magic ring into an imaginary volcano?" Are you trying to start a holy war? Lol. I thought that was a somewhat novel way to end things. Remember Tolkien was inspired by Christian themes so the concept of Martyr/Sacrifice was not new. Frodo wins by "giving up" something not strength of arms. Very Zen as well, actually. also: isn't all fantasy "imaginary" by definition? > -- > "Mos Eisley spaceport. You will never John Cowan > see a more wretched hive of scum and jcowan@reutershealth.com > villainy -- unless you watch the http://www.ccil.org/~cowan > Jerry Springer Show." --georgettesworld.com http://www.reutershealth.com > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > -- Plato is my friend, Aristotle is my friend, but my greatest friend is truth. - Isaac Newton ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:28:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:25:07 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 19:25:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 19:25:07 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10064 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 19:25:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 19:25:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out008.verizon.net) (206.46.170.108) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 19:25:03 -0000 Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.2]) by out008.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041216192502.FXHC4287.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:25:02 -0600 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) To: X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out008.verizon.net from [192.168.1.2] at Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:25:02 -0600 Message-Id: <20041216192502.FXHC4287.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.46.170.108 From: Janice Dawley X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:25:02 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Slate Article Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kim McCollum-Clark wrote: > Friends, I wanted to alert you to a recent (very!) response by > UKL to the "Earthsea" debacle in the online magazine SLATE, found > at slate.msn.com. I think it is titled, "The Sci Fi Channel Ruined > My Books." The exact title is "A Whitewashed Earthsea: How the Sci Fi Channel wrecked my books", and the direct link is: http://www.slate.com/id/2111107/ It will look very familiar if you have read the earlier article from The Agony Column. It's basically the same, revised and reworded. It's kind of interesting to compare the two, actually. I thought Le Guin's use of the term "colored" (rather than "of color") in the first version was unfortunate. I see she cleared that problem up before publishing in a higher profile online mag. -- Janice ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:29:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.32]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:41:16 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 20:41:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.157] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 20:41:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28392 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 20:41:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 20:41:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.170) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 20:41:13 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfj3d.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.204.109] helo=computer) by pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Cf2Qy-00058F-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:41:13 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.20041216123806.00972c10@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20041216181400.GA4257@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.170 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:39:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Dragonfly Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 01:14 PM 12/16/2004 -0500, John Cowan wrote: >But then again, "What kind of solution is it to the Problem of Evil to drop >a magic ring into an imaginary volcano?" Tolkien was very clear: destroying the Ring was not a solution to the problem of evil. It was an end to one menace for one time. David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:29:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:22:29 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 21:22:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 21:22:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53621 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 21:22:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 21:22:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.184) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 21:22:30 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfj3d.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.204.109] helo=computer) by pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Cf345-0003rN-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:21:38 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.20041216131710.0097a2e0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <20041216181400.GA4257@skunk.reutershealth.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.184 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:19:50 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Slate article Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain At 01:24 PM 12/16/2004 -0500, Kim wrote: >I think it is titled, The Sci Fi Channel Ruined My Books. You will see the >headline on the front page of the magazine. Thanks for the heads-up. "Wrecked" not "ruined", but that's of no importance. >I would have to quarrel with UKL on that note, though. Probably didn't write her own headline. >Nothing could ruin her books for those of us who have read them. If the film gets stuck in your head, the book has been changed for you. (Because a book is a reading experience, not a hunk of dead tree.) And if you don't like that change, "ruined" is not too strong a word. David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:30:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:23:39 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 22:23:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 22:23:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: vincent@xaymaca.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91351 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 22:23:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 22:23:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server3.3mountain.com) (69.20.125.225) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 22:23:39 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.151] (ip67-153-106-58.z106-153-67.customer.algx.net [67.153.106.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by server3.3mountain.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBGMNcr4001222 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:23:38 -0500 Message-ID: <41C20AE8.7010508@xaymaca.com> Organization: Aaxis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.20.125.225 From: Vincent X-Yahoo-Profile: vks_jamaica MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:23:36 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Sci Fi's ratings Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmm, how many of these people read the books? Earthsea Scores Big Ratings SCI FI Channel's original miniseries Legend of Earthsea averaged a 3.2 rating (3.7 million viewers) in the two nights of its premiere, Dec. 13 and 14, the combined audience making the channel the top network in cable prime time. The channel was the number-one network in cable prime time in household ratings, among adults 18-49 and among viewers aged 25-54 for Earthsea's combined two-night run, the channel reported. The Dec. 13 premiere of Legend Of Earthsea's part one earned a 3.0 household rating (3.44 million viewers) and was the highest-rated entertainment program on cable that Monday night. It ranked third overall among viewers aged 18-49 and 25-54. The Dec. 14 premiere of Earthsea's finale was the number-one program on cable in both ratings and delivery among viewers aged 18-49 and 25-54. Part two delivered a 3.4 household rating (3.92 million), a 13 percent increase in ratings and a 14 percent increase in viewers from Monday's installment. Legend of Earthsea delivered an aggregate audience of 7.35 million in its two-part premiere. The aggregate for all seven telecasts of Legend of Earthsea on Dec. 13 and 14 topped out at 13.2 million viewers. >>> The information contained in this e-mail transmission is privileged and/or confidential intended solely for the exclusive use of the individual addressee. If you are not the intended addressee you are hereby notified that any retention, disclosure or other use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this notification in error, please immediately contact the sender and delete the material. -- Plato is my friend, Aristotle is my friend, but my greatest friend is truth. - Isaac Newton ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:31:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.38]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:16:14 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 01:16:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 01:16:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 8223 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2004 01:16:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2004 01:16:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2004 01:16:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 01:16:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.250] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 01:16:16 -0000 X-Sender: cgonsalves@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22719 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 23:50:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 23:50:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 23:50:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 23:50:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.176] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 23:50:04 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.1.20041215183312.00a1ed00@mail.earthlink.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.35 From: "Cynthia Gonsalves" X-Originating-IP: 12.36.122.130 X-Yahoo-Profile: cgonsalves X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 17 Dec 2004 01:16:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.51 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:50:01 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: wresting humour from the jaws of defeat Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman wrote: > > In the Halmi "Dispossessed", Shevek is so happy to be off of that horrible > socialist prison planet that he applies for asylum on the mercy of the > Urrasti government (they only have one) and happily goes off shopping. Of > course he never returns to Anarres. Ow, my brain hurts, make it stop! This scenario sounds so plausible, espectialy after 9/11. I just joined this group, and David (who I treasure) springs *this* on me (I will have to take suitable action the next time we meet). Cynthia (who is glad she doesn't pay extra for digital cable and the SciFi travesty) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:31:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:45:40 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 01:45:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 01:45:43 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53585 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2004 01:45:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2004 01:45:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.249) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2004 01:45:42 -0000 Received: from user-2ivfj3d.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.204.109] helo=computer) by pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Cf7Be-0000xT-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:45:42 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.20041216174313.009ece30@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.20041215183312.00a1ed00@mail.earthlink.net> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.249 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:43:53 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: wresting humour from the jaws of defeat Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple of friends came up with this little ditty: I'm dreaming of a white Earthsea Not like the one I used to read ... ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:31:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.50]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:14:40 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 03:14:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.200] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 03:14:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: melanie-simet@uiowa.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90317 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2004 03:14:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2004 03:14:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.63) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2004 03:14:40 -0000 Received: from [63.186.9.23] (helo=Goosey) by smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cf8Zk-0001Rw-7A for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:14:40 -0500 To: Message-ID: <008101c4e3e6$8a217c10$9209ba3f@Goosey> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <4.1.20041216174313.009ece30@mail.earthlink.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-ELNK-Trace: bbeb01fbc986a45094f5150ab1c16ac0549fb11073be4ad332b88a9cd1a523d9ca2cc4b18205a9f5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.86.89.63 From: "Melanie Simet" X-Originating-IP: 63.186.9.23 X-Yahoo-Profile: go_seaward MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:14:30 -0600 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Re: wresting humour from the jaws of defeat Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> I'm dreaming of a white Earthsea >> Not like the one I used to read ... Perhaps, more appropriately, I'm screaming at a white Earthsea... Melanie ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:33:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:18:31 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 15:18:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.193] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 15:18:32 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: vincent@xaymaca.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66477 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2004 15:18:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2004 15:18:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server3.3mountain.com) (69.20.125.225) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2004 15:18:24 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.151] (ip67-153-106-58.z106-153-67.customer.algx.net [67.153.106.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by server3.3mountain.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBHFINVQ013949 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:18:23 -0500 Message-ID: <41C2F8BE.8070903@xaymaca.com> Organization: Aaxis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.20.125.225 From: Vincent X-Yahoo-Profile: vks_jamaica MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:18:22 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Can anyone see my posts? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a test. I noticed that none of my posts get replied to. I have no problem with that, just want to make sure that my posts are at least visible. Thanks, Vincent -- Plato is my friend, Aristotle is my friend, but my greatest friend is truth. - Isaac Newton ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:34:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:08:22 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 17:08:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.94] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 17:08:23 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: orend@axelero.hu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13581 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2004 17:06:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2004 17:06:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO darmachakra.axelero.hu) (195.228.240.91) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2004 17:06:21 -0000 Received: from darmachakra (localhost-02 [127.0.2.1]) by darmachakra.axelero.hu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with SMTP id iBHH6KoV078615 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:06:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from fe03.axelero.hu [127.0.2.1] via SMTP gateway by darmachakra [195.228.240.91]; id A0331315356 at Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:06:20 +0100 Received: from oren1 (adsl-243-228.adsl-fixip.axelero.hu [195.228.228.243]) by fe03.axelero.hu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id iBHH6I2l078581 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:06:19 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200412171706.iBHH6I2l078581@fe03.axelero.hu> To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcTkS7HO0v2tarE4RZysBQD7xRIatAADwM1g In-Reply-To: <41C2F8BE.8070903@xaymaca.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 195.228.240.91 From: "Oren Douek" X-Yahoo-Profile: orendouek MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:06:28 +0100 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Can anyone see my posts? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, I don't see your post ;-) Regards, Oren > -----Original Message----- > From: Vincent [mailto:vincent@xaymaca.com] > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:18 PM > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [the-ekumen] Can anyone see my posts? > > > This is a test. I noticed that none of my posts get replied to. > I have no problem with that, just want to make sure that my posts > are at least visible. > Thanks, > Vincent > -- > Plato is my friend, Aristotle is my friend, but my greatest friend is > truth. > - Isaac Newton > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:34:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:18:50 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 17:18:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 17:18:51 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dmcadow@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30734 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2004 17:18:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2004 17:18:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2004 17:18:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 17:18:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.191] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 17:18:41 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.16 From: dmcadow@yahoo.com X-Originating-IP: 169.237.51.50 X-Yahoo-Profile: dmcadow MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 17:18:40 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Margaret Chodos Irvine covers Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All - If anyone is curious, I found three of the four Earthsea covers by Margaret Chodos Irvine that Ursula said she liked. I've placed them in the Photos section. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:35:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:50:12 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 19:50:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 19:50:14 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: ianrowcliffe@netcabo.pt X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89187 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2004 19:50:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2004 19:50:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exch01smtp09.hdi.tvcabo) (212.113.174.29) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2004 19:50:13 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([83.132.94.61] RDNS failed) by exch01smtp09.hdi.tvcabo with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:49:51 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <41C2F8BE.8070903@xaymaca.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Dec 2004 19:49:51.0143 (UTC) FILETIME=[92602B70:01C4E471] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.113.174.29 From: rowcliffe MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:49:48 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Can anyone see my posts? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reading you loud and clear, Vincent! Ian P.S. Every time I send a message to the group one gets bounced back to me so I know it has arrived. That should happen to you, too. on 12/17/04 3:18 PM, Vincent at vincent@xaymaca.com wrote: > > This is a test. I noticed that none of my posts get replied to. > I have no problem with that, just want to make sure that my posts > are at least visible. > Thanks, > Vincent ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:35:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.24]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:07:21 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 20:07:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2004 20:07:20 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: swamp_canary@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16017 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2004 20:07:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2004 20:07:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.174.15) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2004 20:07:05 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:07:04 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 216.240.84.78 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:06:36 GMT X-Originating-Email: [swamp_canary@hotmail.com] X-Sender: swamp_canary@hotmail.com To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Bcc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Dec 2004 20:07:04.0902 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA8B4660:01C4E473] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.174.15 From: "Virginia Ryan" X-Originating-IP: [216.240.84.78] X-Yahoo-Profile: kemtri98 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:06:36 -0600 Subject: [the-ekumen] Metaphor Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:14:27 -0500 > From: John Cowan >Subject: Re: Dragonfly >None will, nor should. This is the Age of the Dominion of Men, and we have >to solve our own problems. Le Guin even tells us that the Lords of Elfland >"do not exist on this earth". 1) When Ms. LeGuin wrote "From Elfland to Poughkeepsie" (which I assume you are referencing above) she was talking about the use of style and language in fantasy writing. One of the major themes of the essay was the power of language, carefully used. Indeed, that theme is strong throughout her works, especially the Earthsea series. The essay also discusses fantasy writing as an archetype, an almost Jungian collective dreamstate. She says, "It is a different approach to reality, an alternative technique for apprehending and coping with existence." It was in that sense, as a tool for abstract thought, that I referenced "Dragonfly". I was, of course, being metaphorical. The whole letter was metaphor. When I say "dragon", I do not mean giant firebreathing reptile, nor do I mean magical power. I mean a force of change, of upheaval, to end the stagnation and set the scales of the world in motion towards balance. In the same essay, LeGuin speaks of dragons as archetypes, as representatives of modes of thought: "[Fantasy] employs archetypes, which, as Jung warned us, are dangerous things. Dragons are more dangerous, and a good deal commoner, than bears." (Spoiler below - skip if you've not read _Tales from Earthsea_ 2) Irian was not only a dragon, she was a woman. It is quite possible to be both at the same time, even in the Dominion of Men. I think Ms. LeGuin would back me up on that. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:37:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.39]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:01:30 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2004 00:01:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2004 00:01:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: swamp_canary@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94932 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2004 00:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2004 00:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2004 00:01:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2004 00:00:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.155] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2004 00:00:53 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.46 From: "Virginia Ryan" X-Originating-IP: 216.240.84.78 X-Yahoo-Profile: kemtri98 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 00:00:49 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Margaret Chodos Irvine covers Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is it just me, or does anyone else find that cover for _The Farthest Shore_ slightly disturbing? I never pictured Lebannen with *quite* that kind of build. --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, dmcadow@y... wrote: > > Hi All - If anyone is curious, I found three of the four Earthsea > covers by Margaret Chodos Irvine that Ursula said she liked. I've > placed them in the Photos section. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 19 17:40:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by feministsf.org for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:34:10 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2004 07:34:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.95] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2004 07:34:14 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: anariska@smartt.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66011 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2004 07:34:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2004 07:34:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2004 07:34:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2004 07:33:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.129] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2004 07:33:41 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.1.20041215183312.00a1ed00@mail.earthlink.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.37 From: "Susan Armstrong" X-Originating-IP: 209.52.3.71 X-Yahoo-Profile: anariska MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 07:33:41 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: wresting humour from the jaws of defeat Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman wrote: > Genly Ai is white. Estraven is a woman. Bingo! LHOD...marketable at last! Julia Ormond will play Estraven - who can forget that the tall, white, aristocratically beautiful Ms. Ormond was cast as the short, half-Inuit woman of the people in "Smilla's Sense of Snow". Estraven starts out bisexed, career-oriented, and ignorant of cosmetics, but Genly (Ben Affleck) makes her discover her inner woman. After the big sex scene which Le Guin carelessly omitted from the book, the phallic spaceship arrives, heralding a new age of 1950s sex roles, and the Gethenians are converted from the error of their ways. After all, when it comes to perversion, there are those who believe and those who don't believe. Serious note... once in a while I've imagined a dark dystopian sequel to LHOD. In the new era, more and more single-sexed aliens arrive on Gethen. Their influence (pheromonal and otherwise) on the locals - unintended, but inexorable as the tides - produces an increasing sociosexual disturbance in the Gethenian populace... > In the Halmi "Dispossessed", Shevek is so happy to be off of that horrible > socialist prison planet that he applies for asylum on the mercy of the > Urrasti government (they only have one) and happily goes off shopping. Of > course he never returns to Anarres. > > David Bratman Another old movie flashback: Gully Jimson (Alec Guinness), the eccentric mural painter in "The Horse's Mouth", spots the enormous blank side of a ship and rapturously moans, "A wall!!" Now I'm hearing Shevek sigh, "A mall!!" - Susan P.S. okay, Ms. Ormond *was* pretty good as Smilla - that might rule her out. P.P.S. Hey, can we bring back Bette Davis? lol - Estraven as Charlotte Vale ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 12:03:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 16:50:01 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 00:50:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.97] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 00:50:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: feetup3000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98567 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2004 00:50:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2004 00:50:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2004 00:50:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 00:50:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.137] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 00:50:00 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <008101c4e3e6$8a217c10$9209ba3f@Goosey> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.48 From: "Mike" X-Originating-IP: 68.202.36.176 X-Yahoo-Profile: feetup3000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:49:58 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: wresting humour from the jaws of defeat Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Melanie Simet" wrote: > >> I'm dreaming of a white Earthsea > >> Not like the one I used to read ... > > Perhaps, more appropriately, > > I'm screaming at a white Earthsea... > > Melanie I was prepared to view the two-parter with a huge grain of salt. I was prepared to not like it. I was not, however, prepared for what I'm watching. I don't like it, and it bears no resemblance to the beloved originals...but my question is, is it really bad, taken for what it is? Does it include anything that might make the uninitiated read the books? I honestly can't tell, being too close to the subject, as most of us here are. Just wondering. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 12:03:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.49]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:25:36 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 01:25:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 01:25:38 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63566 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2004 01:25:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2004 01:25:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO thrud.anatomy.usyd.edu.au) (129.78.151.2) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2004 01:25:36 -0000 Received: by thrud.anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Postfix, from userid 1049) id B7A808C019; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:24:34 +1100 (EST) To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20041220122434.C27086@anatomy.usyd.edu.au> References: <008101c4e3e6$8a217c10$9209ba3f@Goosey> In-Reply-To: ; from feetup3000@yahoo.com on Mon, Dec 20, 2004 at 12:49:58AM -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 129.78.151.2 From: Danny Yee X-Yahoo-Profile: dannyreviews MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:24:34 +1100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: wresting humour from the jaws of defeat Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike wrote: > I don't like it, and it bears no resemblance to the beloved > originals...but my question is, is it really bad, taken for what it > is? Does it include anything that might make the uninitiated read the > books? It has certainly raised interest in the books. My review of the Earthsea trilogy has been by far the most popular of the 800+ book reviews on my site this month (1200 page views so far), when it normally just makes it into the top 10. Danny. ---------------------------------------------------------- http://dannyreviews.com/ - over eight hundred book reviews http://danny.oz.au/ - civil liberties, travel tales, blog ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 12:10:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.40]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 05:24:27 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 13:24:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.198] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 13:24:27 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57623 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2004 13:24:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2004 13:24:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratanakiri.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.37) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2004 13:24:26 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (ratanakiri [65.246.141.37]) by ratanakiri.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iBKDNX89019874 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:23:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:23:34 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20041220132333.GC3487@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: <20041216181400.GA4257@skunk.reutershealth.com> <4.1.20041216131710.0097a2e0@mail.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <4.1.20041216131710.0097a2e0@mail.earthlink.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.246.141.37 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:23:33 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Slate article Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David Bratman scripsit: > > At 01:24 PM 12/16/2004 -0500, Kim wrote: > > >I think it is titled, The Sci Fi Channel Ruined My Books. You will see the > >headline on the front page of the magazine. > > Thanks for the heads-up. "Wrecked" not "ruined", but that's of no importance. There are some interesting deletions in this version relative to the "Earthsea on Clorox" version, specifically the loss of the reference to faith as what-the-movie's-about in addition to sex and violence. -- John Cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com www.reutershealth.com www.ccil.org/~cowan Promises become binding when there is a meeting of the minds and consideration is exchanged. So it was at King's Bench in common law England; so it was under the common law in the American colonies; so it was through more than two centuries of jurisprudence in this country; and so it is today. --Specht v. Netscape ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 12:13:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.36]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:06:42 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 15:17:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 15:17:53 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37977 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2004 15:17:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2004 15:17:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratanakiri.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.37) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2004 15:17:50 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (ratanakiri [65.246.141.37]) by ratanakiri.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iBKFHnSL020670 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:17:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:17:54 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20041220151753.GT3487@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: <20041216181400.GA4257@skunk.reutershealth.com> <41C1D45C.8040209@xaymaca.com> In-Reply-To: <41C1D45C.8040209@xaymaca.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.246.141.37 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:17:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Dragonfly Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vincent scripsit: > > But then again, "What kind of solution is it to the Problem of Evil to drop > > a magic ring into an imaginary volcano?" > > Are you trying to start a holy war? > Lol. > > I thought that was a somewhat novel way to end things. Remember Tolkien > was inspired by Christian themes so the concept of Martyr/Sacrifice was > not new. Frodo wins by "giving up" something not strength of arms. Very > Zen as well, actually. I was quoting from UKL's essay on Tolkien, actually. -- John Cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com www.reutershealth.com www.ccil.org/~cowan Promises become binding when there is a meeting of the minds and consideration is exchanged. So it was at King's Bench in common law England; so it was under the common law in the American colonies; so it was through more than two centuries of jurisprudence in this country; and so it is today. --Specht v. Netscape ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 12:11:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:14:28 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 16:14:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.195] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 16:14:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: iwriddell@charter.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80529 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2004 16:14:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2004 16:14:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mxsf08.cluster1.charter.net) (209.225.28.208) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2004 16:14:27 -0000 Received: from mxip12.cluster1.charter.net (mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.142]) by mxsf08.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBKGDt28015840 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:13:56 -0500 Received: from c68.190.85.120.mad.wi.charter.com (HELO [192.168.1.100]) (68.190.85.120) by mxip12.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 20 Dec 2004 11:13:56 -0500 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.88,76,1102309200"; d="scan'208"; a="679484546:sNHT22018292" In-Reply-To: <20041220151753.GT3487@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: <20041216181400.GA4257@skunk.reutershealth.com> <41C1D45C.8040209@xaymaca.com> <20041220151753.GT3487@skunk.reutershealth.com> Message-Id: <243245D8-52A2-11D9-9565-000D93AF8E68@charter.net> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.225.28.208 From: Ian Riddell X-Yahoo-Profile: iwr77 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:13:52 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Dragonfly Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain On Dec 20, 2004, at 9:17 AM, John Cowan wrote: > Vincent scripsit: > > > > But then again, "What kind of solution is it to the Problem of > Evil to drop > > > a magic ring into an imaginary volcano?" > > > > Are you trying to start a holy war? > > Lol. > > > > I thought that was a somewhat novel way to end things. Remember > Tolkien > > was inspired by Christian themes so the concept of Martyr/Sacrifice > was > > not new. Frodo wins by "giving up" something not strength of arms. > Very > > Zen as well, actually. > > The real irony, of course, is that Frodo *didn't* give it up. He was consumed by it in the end and lost himself to it. The good guys only *won* because Gollum, who was also consumed by the ring, stole it from Frodo and then fell into the fire. Bilbo and Frodo (and Sam really) saved the day because they were merciful to Gollum in the long run. widdy --------------------------------------------------------- Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Aral Vorkosigan --------------------------------------------------------- Ian W. Riddell iwriddell@charter.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 12:12:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.40]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:03:28 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 18:03:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.156] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 18:03:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51145 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2004 18:03:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2004 18:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratanakiri.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.37) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2004 18:03:19 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (ratanakiri [65.246.141.37]) by ratanakiri.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iBKI3Ij6021741 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:03:20 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20041220180320.GJ3044@skunk.reutershealth.com> References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.246.141.37 From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:03:20 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Dragons of the Earthsea Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit alitamur scripsit: > - In the end of Tehanu, why does Tehanu call Kalessin "Segoy"? > Kalessin is also called "the eldest", but would it mean that it is > actually Segoy, who spoke the first word and thus created Earthsea? Why not? Most Earth religions visualize the creator in human form, or with a human personality at least. The Earthsea creator could take dragon form if it so willed. -- We pledge allegiance to the penguin John Cowan and to the intellectual property regime jcowan@reutershealth.com for which he stands, one world under http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Linux, with free music and open source http://www.reutershealth.com software for all. --Julian Dibbell on Brazil, edited ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 12:13:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.37]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:35:19 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 22:35:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 22:35:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 35387 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2004 22:35:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2004 22:35:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2004 22:35:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 22:35:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.130] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 22:35:05 -0000 X-Sender: cherylllr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12393 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2004 22:28:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2004 22:28:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2004 22:28:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 22:28:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.112] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 22:28:22 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.16 From: "cheryl" X-Originating-IP: 24.176.248.253 X-Yahoo-Profile: cherylllr X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 20 Dec 2004 22:34:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.48 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:27:43 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] question about orsinia / malafrena Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all: I must beg your indulgence. I know it is poor etiquette to just come in and ask one question, but I've done research on ebay, amazon, google, powells, and the internet book list, with limited results. I have a vague memory troubling me. I recall visiting a library and running across a box set by Le Guin. It seemed to be about an imaginary country (and that's why it may be of the Orsinian works). It also seemed to be more than one book, but also goodies like, perhaps, audio cassettes, a gazetteer, a fold-out map, and/or artefacts purported to be from the country. I also seem to have an impression that these documents referred to a place Utopian and/or a description of an "Intentional Community" that she envisioned readers helping her to establish. But this part of my memory may be a red herring based on the liklihood that the collection I recall was shelved adjacent to The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia. Heck, with my memory, it is even possible that the set was not by Le Guin. I recall finding it when I was looking for L'Engle, so I suppose it may possibly be hers. My memory probably dates back to the early 1990s, and to the University of Wisconsin, River Falls. Have any of you ever seen or heard of anything like this? Thanks for any and all help! Cheryl ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 12:13:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.48]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:53:19 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 22:53:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2004 22:53:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50117 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2004 22:53:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2004 22:53:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grunt2.ihug.co.nz) (203.109.254.42) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2004 22:53:20 -0000 Received: from tig-nz-akl-ns-42.ihug.net (ihug.co.nz) [203.109.252.42] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CgWOz-0002SY-00; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:53:17 +1300 Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Quality Web Email v3.1b, http://netwinsite.com/refw.htm Priority: normal Message-id: <41c757dd.1ba.24ec.655100983@ihug.co.nz> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.109.254.42 From: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Originating-IP: 130.216.136.27 X-Yahoo-Profile: aquila1nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:53:17 +1300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] question about orsinia / malafrena Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only novel set in Orsinia is Malafrena. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0425046478/qid=1103582970/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-8780221-9615139 I imagine the book you are thinking of is Always Coming Home, (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060155450/ref=lpr_g_1/104-8780221-9615139?v=glance&s=books - the hard cover included a cassette) which is not part of the Orsinia stories. Aquila > > > > > Hi all: > > I must beg your indulgence. I know it is poor etiquette > to just come in and ask one question, but I've done > research on ebay, amazon, google, powells, and the > internet book list, with limited results. > > I have a vague memory troubling me. I recall visiting a > library and running across a box set by Le Guin. It > seemed to be about an imaginary country (and that's why > it may be of the Orsinian works). It also seemed to be > more than one book, but also goodies like, perhaps, audio > cassettes, a gazetteer, a fold-out map, and/or artefacts > purported to be from the country. > > I also seem to have an impression that these documents > referred to a place Utopian and/or a description of an > "Intentional Community" that she envisioned readers > helping her to establish. But this part of my memory may > be a red herring based on the liklihood that the > collection I recall was shelved adjacent to The > Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia. Heck, with my memory, > it is even possible that the set was not by Le Guin. I > recall finding it when I was looking for L'Engle, so I > suppose it may possibly be hers. > > My memory probably dates back to the early 1990s, and to > the University of Wisconsin, River Falls. > > Have any of you ever seen or heard of anything like this? > > Thanks for any and all help! > > Cheryl > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. > Register anything. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ----------~-> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 12:15:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.46]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 04:22:32 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2004 12:22:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.95] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2004 12:22:33 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: daohuis@wmis.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18667 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2004 12:22:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2004 12:22:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.wmis.net) (216.109.194.25) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2004 12:22:29 -0000 Received: from wmis.net (tc3-grr-ip064.wmis.net [209.176.193.114]) by smtp.wmis.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66F484B75B for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 07:22:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <41C81588.5080505@wmis.net> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <20041216181400.GA4257@skunk.reutershealth.com> <41C1D45C.8040209@xaymaca.com> <20041220151753.GT3487@skunk.reutershealth.com> <243245D8-52A2-11D9-9565-000D93AF8E68@charter.net> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.109.194.25 From: "Deborah A. Oosterhouse" X-Yahoo-Profile: DAOhuis MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 07:22:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Dragonfly Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This ended up being my biggest beef about those darn films (even worse than the cut-away during the scene with Eowyn and the witch king). I probably could've forgiven them a lot more if they hadn't screwed up the "ending". Those of you who've seen the film know what I'm talking about, so I won't go into specifics in case anyone is still waiting to see them. I don't have the SciFi channel at home, so wasn't able to watch "Earthsea" but wasn't opptimistic from seeing the first commercial for it at a friend's house. I'll just have to wait for a DVD, if I bother at all. Based on a lot of the comments from folks here who have seen it, and UKL herself, I'll probably just give it a miss. Deborah Ian Riddell wrote: >The real irony, of course, is that Frodo *didn't* give it up. He was >consumed by it in the end and lost himself to it. The good guys only >*won* because Gollum, who was also consumed by the ring, stole it from >Frodo and then fell into the fire. > >Bilbo and Frodo (and Sam really) saved the day because they were >merciful to Gollum in the long run. > >widdy > >--------------------------------------------------------- >Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know >about yourself. >Aral Vorkosigan > >--------------------------------------------------------- > >Ian W. Riddell >iwriddell@charter.net > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 13:12:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:47:13 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2004 17:47:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2004 17:47:11 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dmcadow@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38888 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2004 17:47:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2004 17:47:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2004 17:47:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2004 17:46:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.189] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2004 17:46:57 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <41C81588.5080505@wmis.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.47 From: dmcadow@yahoo.com X-Originating-IP: 169.237.51.172 X-Yahoo-Profile: dmcadow MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:46:56 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Dragonfly Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Deborah A. Oosterhouse" wrote: > Based on a lot of the comments from folks here who have seen it, > and UKL herself, I'll probably just give it a miss. You should watch them...otherwise you'll miss out on the fun of bashing them with everyone else! Well, it was fun for me, anyway... :-) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 22 11:27:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.35]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 14:06:58 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2004 22:06:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.198] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2004 22:06:13 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 47061 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2004 22:06:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2004 22:06:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2004 22:06:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2004 22:06:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.254] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2004 22:06:01 -0000 X-Sender: anzalyu@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40654 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2004 19:18:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2004 19:18:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web21326.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.215) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2004 19:18:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 59609 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Dec 2004 19:17:59 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=nKm34zumyZT02FMitHxrh6PVuxEYopaEKF/+apXQlqLV1WMkUTMBy/TPWmc19sQy4+jsHrYwFSBAyuoBvmGHYNGTTU3C2sMpFEJUK46AzfvTS4cFNnPkgfSgXXKl+o2iMte3Ayi+UOcCdYVDYqHZkdqybiL20InP/E8w3rs04TM= ; Message-ID: <20041221191759.59607.qmail@web21326.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.180.135.86] by web21326.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:17:59 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <41c757dd.1ba.24ec.655100983@ihug.co.nz> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.215 From: Katie E X-Yahoo-Profile: anzalyu X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 21 Dec 2004 22:05:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.51 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:17:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] question about orsinia / malafrena Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a boxed set of Always Coming Home. It has a trade paperback & a cassette of "Music & Poetry of the Kesh". No other goodies like fold-out maps or such. Copyrighted in 1985. I picked it up at a used book store, & have yet to read it, unfortunately, just little bits & pieces. It seems to be set in a far future California. Could that be it? Katie aquila1@ihug.co.nz wrote: The only novel set in Orsinia is Malafrena. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0425046478/qid=1103582970/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-8780221-9615139 I imagine the book you are thinking of is Always Coming Home, (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060155450/ref=lpr_g_1/104-8780221-9615139?v=glance&s=books - the hard cover included a cassette) which is not part of the Orsinia stories. Aquila > > > > > Hi all: > > I must beg your indulgence. I know it is poor etiquette > to just come in and ask one question, but I've done > research on ebay, amazon, google, powells, and the > internet book list, with limited results. > > I have a vague memory troubling me. I recall visiting a > library and running across a box set by Le Guin. It > seemed to be about an imaginary country (and that's why > it may be of the Orsinian works). It also seemed to be > more than one book, but also goodies like, perhaps, audio > cassettes, a gazetteer, a fold-out map, and/or artefacts > purported to be from the country. > > I also seem to have an impression that these documents > referred to a place Utopian and/or a description of an > "Intentional Community" that she envisioned readers > helping her to establish. But this part of my memory may > be a red herring based on the liklihood that the > collection I recall was shelved adjacent to The > Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia. Heck, with my memory, > it is even possible that the set was not by Le Guin. I > recall finding it when I was looking for L'Engle, so I > suppose it may possibly be hers. > > My memory probably dates back to the early 1990s, and to > the University of Wisconsin, River Falls. > > Have any of you ever seen or heard of anything like this? > > Thanks for any and all help! > > Cheryl > > --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 23 11:35:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.44]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:38:36 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 10:38:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.200] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 10:38:35 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 61014 invoked from network); 23 Dec 2004 10:38:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Dec 2004 10:38:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Dec 2004 10:38:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 10:38:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.191] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 10:38:34 -0000 X-Sender: jbittner@crosspaths.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15480 invoked from network); 23 Dec 2004 10:28:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Dec 2004 10:28:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Dec 2004 10:28:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 10:27:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.160] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 10:27:45 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.35 From: "James Bittner" X-Originating-IP: 65.101.164.80 X-Yahoo-Profile: madcity79 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 23 Dec 2004 10:38:34 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.50 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:27:41 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Resources on the WWW Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Hello all -- I've just now joined the group. It's nice to consort with so many literate folks. I've uploaded the file leguin.zip to the "files" folder of this discussion group. It's a compilation of a bunch of WWW links. Am I carrying wood into the forest by telling this group that Le Guin will be the Distinguished Guest Author at the SFRA gathering in Las Vegas? June 23 26, 2005 http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/sfra/SFRA2005_sked.htm Best wishes to all, Jim ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 23 15:49:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.40]) by feministsf.org for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:27:59 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 20:14:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.198] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 20:14:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: cherylllr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71321 invoked from network); 23 Dec 2004 20:14:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Dec 2004 20:14:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web50603.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.90) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Dec 2004 20:14:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 5383 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Dec 2004 20:14:18 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=2X813r68LX7ol+cPwEf80IkVAfSW7Hfl5kq2js+AP4XCnC33jSL2bNhwK3y4LPdukmkj0aSu2vsCMPr5eejZZWgjSTl6PkIKetl1mt5R7LAo1+8S4tv3ZlDotExdBmPcugarN0R52ItZ3/EFhYgUfc2O9GUQe8qFRJxsnOOT4Wc= ; Message-ID: <20041223201418.5381.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.176.248.253] by web50603.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:14:18 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20041221191759.59607.qmail@web21326.mail.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.90 From: cheryl anderson X-Yahoo-Profile: cherylllr MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:14:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: thanks, was Re: [the-ekumen] question about orsinia / malafrena Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again, Katie, all: This sounds good. I went to my local library and found just the book. It ooks familiar and is probably what I was remembering - unfortunately the cassette was not included. If I decide to try to buy it I'll have to be careful to ask the seller if it's complete with cassette. Thanks so much! Btw, I'm about 1/2 through Orsinian Tales. Is this representative of her works? It's beautifully written, and enriching, but not a pleasure to read at all - I mean, I feel like I'm back in school reading something required. Cheryl --- Katie E wrote: > > I have a boxed set of Always Coming Home. It has a trade > paperback & a cassette of "Music & Poetry of the Kesh". > No other goodies like fold-out maps or such. Copyrighted > in 1985. I picked it up at a used book store, & have yet > to read it, unfortunately, just little bits & pieces. It > seems to be set in a far future California. Could that > be it? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 24 13:57:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.45]) by feministsf.org for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:43:02 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Dec 2004 16:49:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Dec 2004 16:47:33 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62926 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2004 10:52:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Dec 2004 10:52:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay2.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.142) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 2004 10:52:10 -0000 Received: from du-040-0250.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.250] helo=oemcomputer) by relay2.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Chn3J-0003FG-B8 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:52:09 +0000 Message-ID: <003201c4e9a6$9c123b60$fa749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <20041223201418.5381.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.142 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:52:05 -0000 Subject: Re: thanks, was Re: [the-ekumen] question about orsinia / malafrena Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What a shame you're not enjoying Orsinian tales Katie. Representative of her works? well not typical of her 2 main locations, Ekumen/league or Earthsea. She is going for something closer to a historical reality in Orsinia, and her nover Malafrena which is set in Orsinia (at least I think it is, has some of the same names anyway) is a lovely novel but I know what you mean, a bit like reading Chekhov or (brief unsuccessful time spent trying to remember who wrote War and Peace)... her subtle and perceptive understanding of different people and cultures and sociology and politics and her poetry are all there but it lacks of course the leap of imagination with magic and the alien found in her SF and Fantasy work. I was thinking about Always Coming Home - somebody else a few weeks ago was making a comparison with one of UKLs other books and the world today - I have totally failed to find this needle in the miniseries haystack - but I was thinking about the way the Condor tried to build their own Weapons of Mass Destruction but the technology failed and the people starved and the society collapsed, without any intervention from the healthier societies outside - hmm echoes of the Omelas debate we've been having! But then for me Always Coming Home is like Orsinian tales are for you - feels like I'm eating something very wholesome but it feels heavy on the stomach somehow and I keep putting it down and going for something with chocolate or alcohol or other unhealthy things. UKL is also interesting on alcohol in the Disposessed. anywhere else? Enough rambling - compliments of the season! Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "cheryl anderson" To: Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 8:14 PM Subject: thanks, was Re: [the-ekumen] question about orsinia / malafrena > > Hi again, Katie, all: > > > Btw, I'm about 1/2 through Orsinian Tales. Is this > representative of her works? It's beautifully written, and > enriching, but not a pleasure to read at all - I mean, I > feel like I'm back in school reading something required. > > Cheryl > > > --- Katie E wrote: > > > > I have a boxed set of Always Coming Home. It has a trade > > paperback & a cassette of "Music & Poetry of the Kesh". > > No other goodies like fold-out maps or such. Copyrighted > > in 1985. I picked it up at a used book store, & have yet > > to read it, unfortunately, just little bits & pieces. It > > seems to be set in a far future California. Could that > > be it? > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 27 11:38:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.48]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 04:07:49 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Dec 2004 11:01:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.30] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Dec 2004 11:01:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jbittner@crosspaths.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84015 invoked from network); 26 Dec 2004 11:01:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Dec 2004 11:01:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.24) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Dec 2004 11:01:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Dec 2004 11:01:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.190] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Dec 2004 11:01:00 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003201c4e9a6$9c123b60$fa749ed9@oemcomputer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.24 From: "James Bittner" X-Originating-IP: 65.101.164.80 X-Yahoo-Profile: madcity79 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 11:00:59 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Orsinia, Earthsea, the Ekumen, and even the Kesh Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Robins- one of" wrote: > What a shame you're not enjoying Orsinian tales Katie. > Representative of her works? well not typical of her 2 > main locations, Ekumen/league or Earthsea. May I jump in? I'm a newbie to the group. I think that all of Le Guin's works and worlds are "orsinian" -- Ursula, ursa (Latin), orsino (Italian) -- they all "bear" her name (that's her joke, not mine) -- I wrote a piece on this clot of ursuline worlds many years ago. See http://www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues/16/bittner16art.htm Just because her worlds are all ursuline doesn't mean that any one reader is going to feel at home in them all. It has taken me two or three readings even to start to feel at home with the Kesh in Always Coming Home. And I'm still struggling with Changing Planes. I was instantly at home in Orsinia because of my roots. > She is going for something closer to a historical reality in > Orsinia, and her novel Malafrena which is set in Orsinia (at > least I think it is, has some of the same names anyway) is a > lovely novel but I know what you mean, a bit like reading Chekhov > or (brief unsuccessful time spent trying to remember who wrote > War and Peace)... I think you're on her wavelength here -- Orsinian Tales and Malafrena owe a lot to the Russians, especially Tolstoy, and also to the Central Europeans. And I'm with you -- I think the Orsinian stories are simply "lovely," most especially "Imaginary Countries," one of my favorites. > her subtle and perceptive understanding of different people and > cultures and sociology and politics and her poetry are all there > but it lacks of course the leap of imagination with magic and the > alien found in her SF and Fantasy work. You're right -- the "leap" of imagination that we make as we read Orsinian stories doesn't span/connect worlds as far apart as are the worlds in the Ekuman or in Earthsea -- Orsinia is closer to home, and Le Guin's stories are always about always coming home, and maybe it's hard to come home unless we have *really* left it, or never had it, to begin with. > I was thinking about Always Coming Home - somebody else a few weeks > ago was making a comparison with one of UKLs other books and the > world today - I have totally failed to find this needle in the > miniseries haystack - but I was thinking about the way the Condor > tried to build their own Weapons of Mass Destruction but the > technology failed and the people starved and the society collapsed, > without any intervention from the healthier societies outside - > hmm echoes of the Omelas debate we've been having! I hear you sensing many many connections among Le Guin's worlds. Remember E. M. Forster's injunction "only connect"? -- check out "Only connect . . . The Unofficial E. M. Forster Site" at http://www.musicandmeaning.com/forster/ -- that URL, "musicandmeaning," would be a wonderful label for all of Le Guin's storytelling. "Only connect" is what The Other Wind is all about. > But then for me Always Coming Home is like Orsinian tales are for > you - feels like I'm eating something very wholesome but it feels > heavy on the stomach somehow and I keep putting it down and going > for something with chocolate or alcohol or other unhealthy things. Wow! Another reader who gets physical with Le Guin's stories -- they affect me viscerally too! But don't you keep returning to the stories after a recess with those unhealthy things? Season's greetings, Jim ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 27 11:39:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.36]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:53:55 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2004 00:26:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2004 00:26:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: cherylllr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80212 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2004 00:26:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Dec 2004 00:26:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web50607.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.94) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2004 00:26:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 38099 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Dec 2004 00:26:33 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=sUIXv+0zEPvz5IpqzNw4wv1AFXAiQfIwMcx24KoCxsNi1QV+6NFKyefoR4I4fY8xVxw/hlNoV+z999PV0euxd8GSjCuJAvf5Lnz/UyGaLHcsw7vMuRa1Tl72rkg2Wr4PbYWnTjtDm6dY3WboU/X6znA5573qMBwkW5evXGLiLHo= ; Message-ID: <20041227002633.38097.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.176.248.253] by web50607.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:26:33 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.94 From: cheryl anderson X-Yahoo-Profile: cherylllr MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:26:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: missing messages:Re: [the-ekumen] Orsinia, Earthsea, the Ekumen, and even the Kesh Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- James Bittner wrote: > > > --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Robins- one of" > wrote: > > What a shame you're not enjoying Orsinian tales Katie. > > > Representative of her works? well not typical of her 2 > > main locations, Ekumen/league or Earthsea. > > May I jump in? I'm a newbie to the group. > > I think that all of Le Guin's works and worlds are > "orsinian" -- > Ursula, ursa (Latin), orsino (Italian) -- they all "bear" > her name > (that's her joke, not mine) -- I wrote a piece on this > clot of > ursuline worlds many years ago. See > http://www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues/16/bittner16art.htm > > Just because her worlds are all ursuline doesn't mean > that any one > reader is going to feel at home in them all. It has > taken me two or > three readings even to start to feel at home with the > Kesh in Always > Coming Home. And I'm still struggling with Changing > Planes. I was > instantly at home in Orsinia because of my roots. > > > She is going for something closer to a historical > reality in > > Orsinia, and her novel Malafrena which is set in > Orsinia (at > > least I think it is, has some of the same names anyway) > is a > > lovely novel but I know what you mean, a bit like > reading Chekhov > > or (brief unsuccessful time spent trying to remember > who wrote > > War and Peace)... > > I think you're on her wavelength here -- Orsinian Tales > and Malafrena > owe a lot to the Russians, especially Tolstoy, and also > to the Central > Europeans. And I'm with you -- I think the Orsinian > stories are > simply "lovely," most especially "Imaginary Countries," > one of my > favorites. > > > her subtle and perceptive understanding of different > people and > > cultures and sociology and politics and her poetry are > all there > > but it lacks of course the leap of imagination with > magic and the > > alien found in her SF and Fantasy work. > > You're right -- the "leap" of imagination that we make as > we read > Orsinian stories doesn't span/connect worlds as far apart > as are the > worlds in the Ekuman or in Earthsea -- Orsinia is closer > to home, and > Le Guin's stories are always about always coming home, > and maybe it's > hard to come home unless we have *really* left it, or > never had it, to > begin with. > > > I was thinking about Always Coming Home - somebody else > a few weeks > > ago was making a comparison with one of UKLs other > books and the > > world today - I have totally failed to find this needle > in the > > miniseries haystack - but I was thinking about the way > the Condor > > tried to build their own Weapons of Mass Destruction > but the > > technology failed and the people starved and the > society collapsed, > > without any intervention from the healthier societies > outside - > > hmm echoes of the Omelas debate we've been having! > > I hear you sensing many many connections among Le Guin's > worlds. > > Remember E. M. Forster's injunction "only connect"? -- > check out "Only > connect . . . The Unofficial E. M. Forster Site" at > http://www.musicandmeaning.com/forster/ -- that URL, > "musicandmeaning," would be a wonderful label for all of > Le Guin's > storytelling. "Only connect" is what The Other Wind is > all about. > > > But then for me Always Coming Home is like Orsinian > tales are for > > you - feels like I'm eating something very wholesome > but it feels > > heavy on the stomach somehow and I keep putting it down > and going > > for something with chocolate or alcohol or other > unhealthy things. > > Wow! Another reader who gets physical with Le Guin's > stories -- they > affect me viscerally too! But don't you keep returning > to the stories > after a recess with those unhealthy things? > > Season's greetings, > > Jim > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion > Toolbar. > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 27 11:39:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.24]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:27:03 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2004 00:27:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.157] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2004 00:27:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: cherylllr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60090 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2004 00:27:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Dec 2004 00:27:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web50607.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.94) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2004 00:27:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 38176 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Dec 2004 00:27:02 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Zfv+1L08MTP5cytIVBq47djzaji8qDUpbVDlHYHq2nZtciYqwibzuzUOvrbhBnFZpduzG7249a4DKOyKOxnfyDzfI08nAB/P1WPfl9yIrP5YnvKuXTl5HXfdNz0r1NZssXooChZuqqmWpqcKoU7W9NM22fcqW4swZJZWJyO1gYM= ; Message-ID: <20041227002702.38174.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.176.248.253] by web50607.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:27:02 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.94 From: cheryl anderson X-Yahoo-Profile: cherylllr MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:27:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: missing messages, was -Re: [the-ekumen] Orsinia, Earthsea, the Ekumen, and even the Kesh Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- James Bittner wrote: > > > --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Robins- one of" > wrote: > > What a shame you're not enjoying Orsinian tales Katie. > > > Representative of her works? well not typical of her 2 > > main locations, Ekumen/league or Earthsea. > > May I jump in? I'm a newbie to the group. > > I think that all of Le Guin's works and worlds are > "orsinian" -- > Ursula, ursa (Latin), orsino (Italian) -- they all "bear" > her name > (that's her joke, not mine) -- I wrote a piece on this > clot of > ursuline worlds many years ago. See > http://www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues/16/bittner16art.htm > > Just because her worlds are all ursuline doesn't mean > that any one > reader is going to feel at home in them all. It has > taken me two or > three readings even to start to feel at home with the > Kesh in Always > Coming Home. And I'm still struggling with Changing > Planes. I was > instantly at home in Orsinia because of my roots. > > > She is going for something closer to a historical > reality in > > Orsinia, and her novel Malafrena which is set in > Orsinia (at > > least I think it is, has some of the same names anyway) > is a > > lovely novel but I know what you mean, a bit like > reading Chekhov > > or (brief unsuccessful time spent trying to remember > who wrote > > War and Peace)... > > I think you're on her wavelength here -- Orsinian Tales > and Malafrena > owe a lot to the Russians, especially Tolstoy, and also > to the Central > Europeans. And I'm with you -- I think the Orsinian > stories are > simply "lovely," most especially "Imaginary Countries," > one of my > favorites. > > > her subtle and perceptive understanding of different > people and > > cultures and sociology and politics and her poetry are > all there > > but it lacks of course the leap of imagination with > magic and the > > alien found in her SF and Fantasy work. > > You're right -- the "leap" of imagination that we make as > we read > Orsinian stories doesn't span/connect worlds as far apart > as are the > worlds in the Ekuman or in Earthsea -- Orsinia is closer > to home, and > Le Guin's stories are always about always coming home, > and maybe it's > hard to come home unless we have *really* left it, or > never had it, to > begin with. > > > I was thinking about Always Coming Home - somebody else > a few weeks > > ago was making a comparison with one of UKLs other > books and the > > world today - I have totally failed to find this needle > in the > > miniseries haystack - but I was thinking about the way > the Condor > > tried to build their own Weapons of Mass Destruction > but the > > technology failed and the people starved and the > society collapsed, > > without any intervention from the healthier societies > outside - > > hmm echoes of the Omelas debate we've been having! > > I hear you sensing many many connections among Le Guin's > worlds. > > Remember E. M. Forster's injunction "only connect"? -- > check out "Only > connect . . . The Unofficial E. M. Forster Site" at > http://www.musicandmeaning.com/forster/ -- that URL, > "musicandmeaning," would be a wonderful label for all of > Le Guin's > storytelling. "Only connect" is what The Other Wind is > all about. > > > But then for me Always Coming Home is like Orsinian > tales are for > > you - feels like I'm eating something very wholesome > but it feels > > heavy on the stomach somehow and I keep putting it down > and going > > for something with chocolate or alcohol or other > unhealthy things. > > Wow! Another reader who gets physical with Le Guin's > stories -- they > affect me viscerally too! But don't you keep returning > to the stories > after a recess with those unhealthy things? > > Season's greetings, > > Jim > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion > Toolbar. > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 27 11:39:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.41]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:32:43 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2004 00:32:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.28] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2004 00:32:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: cherylllr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32532 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2004 00:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Dec 2004 00:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web50605.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.92) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2004 00:32:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 6935 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Dec 2004 00:32:45 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=RvZJuLWNg7Lg2Ww1WC/vcEYgx8QwKaqlVQ5jteCWQ1DdR0atCLOegDdPtq5ZDJS10XssV0DD6zJ+UOIWW37YsyQSuCpwyZqjU1um2E4r827gjC127OYtgp0F8F9zjsCLD5pvfKV43qYXzJrFdYg7KomsZZP9L+MtfEstSLed8mk= ; Message-ID: <20041227003245.6933.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.176.248.253] by web50605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:32:44 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.92 From: cheryl anderson X-Yahoo-Profile: cherylllr MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:32:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [the-ekumen] oops, third try Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm so very sorry about those nonsense messages. Somehow, twice in a row, I hit send before I typed the message. In any case, all I was trying to say was (a) it's me, not Katie, who brought up the thought that Orsininian Tales is not a pleasure to read, and (b) what I mean by that is that they are about sad topics and struggling peoples and I need more optimism in my life - however I am enjoying her writing style and characterizations, and (c) there's something wrong with my email link to my groups because I'm apparently missing lots of messages so I'm going to have to go to the group page to get caught up. Ok I'll shut up now. :) Cheryl LLR ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Mon Dec 27 11:39:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.43]) by feministsf.org for ; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:19:17 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2004 04:19:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.97] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2004 04:19:20 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dbratman@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68954 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2004 04:19:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Dec 2004 04:19:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.205) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2004 04:19:08 -0000 Received: from user-38lc099.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.1.41] helo=computer) by pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CimJv-0005pN-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:17:23 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.20041226200451.0097da40@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: dbratman@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <003201c4e9a6$9c123b60$fa749ed9@oemcomputer> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.205 From: David Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:15:01 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Orsinia, Earthsea, the Ekumen, and even the Kesh Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 11:00 AM 12/26/2004 +0000, James Bittner wrote: >Just because her worlds are all ursuline doesn't mean that any one >reader is going to feel at home in them all. It has taken me two or >three readings even to start to feel at home with the Kesh in Always >Coming Home. And I'm still struggling with Changing Planes. I was >instantly at home in Orsinia because of my roots. Your first sentence is certainly true. Though my ancestry is eastern European, I did not feel a particular affinity to Orsinia, and the published Orsinia novel, _Malafrena_, is the only Le Guin book I've never been able to finish. On the other hand, _Always Coming Home_ captivated me instantly. I wouldn't want to go and live with the Kesh, but reading about them was one of the most enriching literary experiences I've ever had. I liked your article, by the way, especially the beginning for its factual refutation of the silly charge, made by some SF critics at the time, that _Orsinian Tales_ marked Le Guin's abandonment of SF for "the siren call of the mainstream." >I hear you sensing many many connections among Le Guin's worlds. >Remember E. M. Forster's injunction "only connect"? I've been puzzled for decades as to what the phrase "only connect" means, and I've never been able to get an explanation. Why "only"? What else besides connect are you not supposed to do? The website you refer to is of no help. David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 30 12:05:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:51:52 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Dec 2004 05:51:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.196] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Dec 2004 05:51:55 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email Received: (qmail 52780 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2004 05:51:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Dec 2004 05:51:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2004 05:51:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Dec 2004 05:51:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.141] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Dec 2004 05:51:40 -0000 X-Sender: Brann@charter.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50307 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2004 19:48:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Dec 2004 19:48:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2004 19:48:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2004 19:48:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.156] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2004 19:48:41 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <41C20AE8.7010508@xaymaca.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.40 From: "brann_d" X-Originating-IP: 68.188.237.71 X-Yahoo-Profile: brann_d X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 28 Dec 2004 05:51:38 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.39 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:48:29 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Sci Fi's ratings Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit and another newbie jumping in: Vincent wrote: > Hmm, how many of these people read the books? The series inspired me to run out and read them. I am happy to say that I like the books better than the series. like the series or not but I have a feeling I am not the only one who is "backwards" this way.. :) hello. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 30 12:04:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.42]) by feministsf.org for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:50:32 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2004 22:50:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.159] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2004 22:50:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35114 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2004 22:50:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Dec 2004 22:50:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3.mail.uk.clara.net) (80.168.70.143) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2004 22:50:32 -0000 Received: from du-040-0205.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.205] helo=oemcomputer) by relay3.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cj3h9-0008nL-DO for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:50:31 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c4ec66$7a455540$cd749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <003201c4e9a6$9c123b60$fa749ed9@oemcomputer> <4.1.20041226200451.0097da40@mail.earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.168.70.143 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:50:34 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Orsinia, Earthsea, the Ekumen, and even the Kesh Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have always taken 'only connect' (Howard's end) to mean that if only you see and act on the connections (in that case between the morality of the day applied to different genders/classes/situations) then everything will be better/fairer/decent.... yes I think that the wonderful complex network of connections in UKLs work is one of the secrets of her magic touch.. used to love EM Forster as a teenager but find his appeal has faded where UKLs remains hot and strong Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Bratman" To: Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 4:15 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Orsinia, Earthsea, the Ekumen, and even the Kesh > > At 11:00 AM 12/26/2004 +0000, James Bittner wrote: > > >Just because her worlds are all ursuline doesn't mean that any one > >reader is going to feel at home in them all. It has taken me two or > >three readings even to start to feel at home with the Kesh in Always > >Coming Home. And I'm still struggling with Changing Planes. I was > >instantly at home in Orsinia because of my roots. > > Your first sentence is certainly true. Though my ancestry is eastern > European, I did not feel a particular affinity to Orsinia, and the > published Orsinia novel, _Malafrena_, is the only Le Guin book I've never > been able to finish. On the other hand, _Always Coming Home_ captivated me > instantly. I wouldn't want to go and live with the Kesh, but reading about > them was one of the most enriching literary experiences I've ever had. > > I liked your article, by the way, especially the beginning for its factual > refutation of the silly charge, made by some SF critics at the time, that > _Orsinian Tales_ marked Le Guin's abandonment of SF for "the siren call of > the mainstream." > > > >I hear you sensing many many connections among Le Guin's worlds. > >Remember E. M. Forster's injunction "only connect"? > > I've been puzzled for decades as to what the phrase "only connect" means, > and I've never been able to get an explanation. Why "only"? What else > besides connect are you not supposed to do? The website you refer to is of > no help. > > David Bratman > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 30 12:05:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.35]) by feministsf.org for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:00:48 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Dec 2004 10:00:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.199] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Dec 2004 10:00:48 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jbittner@crosspaths.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17160 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2004 10:00:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Dec 2004 10:00:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2004 10:00:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Dec 2004 10:00:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.190] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Dec 2004 10:00:42 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001801c4ec66$7a455540$cd749ed9@oemcomputer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.45 From: "James Bittner" X-Originating-IP: 65.101.164.80 X-Yahoo-Profile: madcity79 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:00:41 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] "Only connect" - it was Orsinia, Earthsea, the Ekumen, and even the Kesh Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Robins- one of" wrote: > I have always taken 'only connect' (Howard's End) to mean that > if only you see and act on the connections (in that case between > the morality of the day applied to different > genders/classes/situations) then everything will be > better/fairer/decent . . . . Thank you! I think we needed a Brit to explain that word "only" to us Yanks, and also to everyone else in the world who reads this Yahoo! discussion. Thanks. Perfect pitch. You understand the Schlegel sisters, as well as Leonard Bast, connected as they all are with Henry Wilcox and Annie in Howard's End, in Edwardian England. >From this side of the pond, I can say only that the word "only" covers so much . . . your post implies that the connections were there already to begin with in Howard's End, and all the characters had to do was feel them and act on them, and then they would be OK. Just so. And that is, in fact, the plot of Howard's End. Maybe also the plot of all our lives. And then, "only" tells me that the choices we have before us are really very simple -- only do it, that's all -- and it's done. Yet it took a sacrificial death in Howard's End, just as it took a sacrificial death (Estraven) in The Left Hand of Darkness to complete the arch -- blood in the mortar that sets the keystone, to make the connection, only that. Only connect. Arha's eunuch dies in the labyrinth so that Ged and Tenar can connect. Le Guin's "only connect" takes place in the darkness, in the space between separated people. It's much more abstract and mystical and anthropological and concrete and physical than Forster's class-based separations. It's also visceral -- Tenar and Ged in the labyrinth, Shevek and the dead man in the cellar in The Dispossessed, and many many more sacrifices in her stories. Joyous reading, no? (That's as far from irony as I can get.) Rather like being "surprised by joy," as C. S. Lewis put it. But it takes the death of someone to make it possible for others to "only connect." (Have another look at Forster, Hannah -- his prose is delicious and wonderful.) I just wish that the SciFi Channel could have found some filmmakers who could have done with Earthsea, what Merchant-Ivory did with A Room With a View and with Howard's End and what David Lean did with A Passage to India. sigh. Blessings, Jim ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 30 12:11:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.36]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:02:37 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Dec 2004 00:43:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.96] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Dec 2004 00:43:51 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: roddy.graham@virgin.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25459 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2004 00:43:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Dec 2004 00:43:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk) (195.188.213.5) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Dec 2004 00:43:46 -0000 Received: from virgin.net ([62.31.140.20]) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:44:15 +0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <4.1.20041226200451.0097da40@mail.earthlink.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Dec 2004 00:44:16.0089 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0760490:01C4EE08] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 195.188.213.5 From: Roddy Graham X-Yahoo-Profile: rodbodtoo MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:43:12 +0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Orsinia, Earthsea, the Ekumen, and even the Kesh Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Monday, December 27, 2004, at 04:15 am, David Bratman wrote: > the silly charge, made by some SF critics at the time, that > _Orsinian Tales_ marked Le Guin's abandonment of SF for "the siren > call of > the mainstream." > When 'Malafrena' appeared in bookshops in Scotland, it was marketed / shelved as historical romance, if I recall correctly. chiz chiz rdg http://www.rodbod.org/ http://smellthecork.blogspot.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 30 12:11:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.24]) by feministsf.org for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:54:59 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Dec 2004 02:55:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.198] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Dec 2004 02:55:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81040 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2004 02:54:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Dec 2004 02:54:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (66.54.152.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Dec 2004 02:54:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 32469 invoked by uid 417); 30 Dec 2004 02:54:58 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com (HELO jive.SoftHome.net) (172.16.3.10) by shunt-smtp-returns-groups-yahoo-com with SMTP; 30 Dec 2004 02:54:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 32465 invoked by uid 417); 30 Dec 2004 02:54:58 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-out-0 (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.3.12) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 30 Dec 2004 02:54:58 -0000 Received: from [10.0.0.4] ([69.21.165.126]) (AUTH: plain dsalo@softhome.net) by softhome.net with esmtp; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:54:58 -0700 X-Sender: dsalo@mail.SoftHome.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.20041226200451.0097da40@mail.earthlink.net> References: <003201c4e9a6$9c123b60$fa749ed9@oemcomputer> <4.1.20041226200451.0097da40@mail.earthlink.net> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.54.152.27 From: David Salo X-Yahoo-Profile: iiipitaka MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:52:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Orsinia, Earthsea, the Ekumen, and even the Kesh Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >At 11:00 AM 12/26/2004 +0000, James Bittner wrote: > >>Just because her worlds are all ursuline doesn't mean that any one >>reader is going to feel at home in them all. >Your first sentence is certainly true. Though my ancestry is eastern >European, I did not feel a particular affinity to Orsinia, and the >published Orsinia novel, _Malafrena_, is the only Le Guin book I've never >been able to finish. I tried reading Le Guin's Orsinian stories when a young teenager (at an age when I was enjoying her fantasy and science fiction), but could not digest them. When I came back to them, after becoming much more familiar with the European history that is referenced in the stories, I found them much easier going. Historical novels are generally like that; if you aren't aware of the period references, much of their impact is lost. One could argue that characterization and plotting should make the milieu irrelevant, but I think in such works the milieu is its own character, but one that you're expected to know something about before opening the book. Le Guin has written more recent Orsinian stories, against the backdrop of more recent history -- but they might prove equally difficult for young readers to whom events before 1990 are rather fuzzy. -- /\ WISTR LAG WIGS RAIHTS \/ WRAIQS NU IST <> David Salo <> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/F77qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 09:17:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.69]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:12:16 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1035-1073956338-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2004 01:12:19 -0000 X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20694 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2004 01:12:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2004 01:12:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.117) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2004 01:12:17 -0000 Received: from art (17.charlotte-18rh16rt-19rh15rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.234.17]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <2004011301074311300n3giee>; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:07:43 +0000 Message-ID: <000801b41e56$7c9f9560$11ea4c0c@art> To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040110232140.038931d0@pop-server.nyc.rr.com> <40020EF4.5040008@comcast.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.117 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1990 00:17:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hain Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1776 Do not miss Birthday of the World! For one thing, we get delightful description of what goes on in a kemmer house. I agree about Old Music and the Slave Women -- very moving, and brilliantly done. Le Guin continues to examine what violence does to individuals and to societies with clear-eyed compassion. I've been reading a lot about the institution of slavery the past year or two, and find Le Guin very convincing in her depiction of it in this story. Melody ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bonnie Schrack" To: Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hain > Kathleen M. wrote: > > > This story is a > > bonus story that continues the Werel/Yeowe storyline from "Four Ways > > to Forgiveness" - which I personally feel is UKL's most > > under-appreciated work. I've read it three times and it just gets > > better every time. > > Hear, hear! Same experience here. > > I LOVE _Four Ways to Forgiveness._ Wonderful, unforgettable characters > -- Rakam, Havzhiva, Old Music . . . definitely ranks among her best work. > > > There are some brief sketches of life on Hain in the story "Old Music and > > the Slave Women" from "The Birthday of the World and Other Stories". > > I guess I should finally get myself a copy of that book, as I've been > meaning to do for a while! > > Bonnie > > > > > > > > >> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 11 10:19:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.86]) by typhoon.he.net for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:26:29 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1033-1073841989-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.156] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2004 17:26:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 78290 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2004 17:26:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2004 17:26:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2004 17:26:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net Received: from [66.218.67.187] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2004 17:26:22 -0000 X-Sender: m.ivins@worldnet.att.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52533 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2004 16:56:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2004 16:56:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net) (204.127.131.115) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2004 16:56:29 -0000 Received: from art (133.charlotte-06rh15-16rt.nc.dial-access.att.net[12.76.216.133]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2004011116562711100ias7le>; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:56:28 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01b41e5c$276b1640$85d84c0c@art> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.115 From: "Melody Ivins" X-Yahoo-Profile: melodyivins X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 11 Jan 2004 17:26:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.76 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1990 00:58:15 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Used books online Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all! I'm a brand-new member of the Ekumen, a long time UKL fan, and a used bookseller by trade. I highly recommend www.bookfinder.com to anyone looking for used or out of print copies of LeGuin books. It searches ABE (a very worthy site) and several similar agencies, and allows easy comparison shopping. Has anyone read UKL's translation of Gabriela Mistral? I'm just starting on it. Melody [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/