From sentto-2266408-591-1017622995-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Mar 31 17:03:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3113Lw08798 for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:03:21 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-591-1017622995-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2002 01:03:15 -0000 X-Sender: flewddur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 1 Apr 2002 01:03:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 6712 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2002 01:03:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2002 01:03:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.75) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2002 01:03:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.184] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2002 01:03:12 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "flewddur" X-Originating-IP: 128.253.157.148 X-Yahoo-Profile: flewddur MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:03:12 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] (unknown) Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1281 X-IMAPbase: 1017630768 1486 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 Hi, I discovered a copy of Very Far From Everywhere Else today in the university library today, and reading it inspired me to join this discussion group. It had been a little while since I had read any of Le Guin's work, and I was reminded today how intense her books are because they are so honest. That honesty gives her work a power that is very rare. Anyway, reading Very Far From Everywhere Else reminded me of a Wizard of Earthsea question that I had from a while back. Tehanu has a completely different feel from the first three books. The story line of Tehanu is much less classic fantasy, and feminist issues seem much more prominent. Has Le Guin ever directly addressed why she wished to make the fourth book so different than the previous three? Thanks, I'm looking forward to the discussions! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Access Your PC from Anywhere It's Easy. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-592-1017707297-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Apr 1 16:28:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g320SMw14842 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:28:22 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-592-1017707297-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2002 00:28:17 -0000 X-Sender: kesafloyd@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 2 Apr 2002 00:28:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 55235 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2002 00:28:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2002 00:28:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.92) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2002 00:28:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.159] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2002 00:28:15 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "kesafloyd" X-Originating-IP: 66.127.243.10 X-Yahoo-Profile: kesafloyd MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 00:28:14 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] "Left Hand of Darkness" Movie Poster Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 710 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 175 Hi all. Once I read about UKL's casting preferences for a LHoD movie, I thought it would be fun to make an actual poster for it using Sigourney Weaver and Michael Dorn. It's in the Photos section of the group site. Enjoy! Alexandra kesafloyd@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/kesafloyd ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6GDALA/VovDAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-593-1017757722-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 06:34:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g32EYqw01173 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 06:34:52 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-593-1017757722-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2002 14:28:42 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 2 Apr 2002 14:28:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 10975 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2002 14:28:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2002 14:28:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2002 14:28:40 -0000 Received: from du-004-0040.claranet.co.uk ([195.8.79.40] helo=Robins) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16sPH4-000O8Z-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 02 Apr 2002 15:28:39 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c1da52$a34b9ea0$284f08c3@Robins> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Robins various" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:29:08 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen]Tehanu Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2172 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 255 you mean - a very long way from anywhere else? - excellent book! Did you know that there are 2 further Earthsea books after Tehanu, one short stories (Tales from Earthsea) and one novel (The Other Wind)? of course the first 3 were written much earlier and aimed at a younger audience Is it that she is more willing to - not engage with because she does that from the beginning with Ged's shadow - but allow more subtlety to the dark side? As to what she herself thinks, maybe others will have more idea Hannah(elsiepiddock) ----- Original Message ----- From: "flewddur" To: Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 2:03 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] (unknown) > Hi, > > I discovered a copy of Very Far From Everywhere Else today in the > university library today, and reading it inspired me to join this > discussion group. It had been a little while since I had read any of > Le Guin's work, and I was reminded today how intense her books are > because they are so honest. That honesty gives her work a power that > is very rare. > > Anyway, reading Very Far From Everywhere Else reminded me of a > Wizard of Earthsea question that I had from a while back. Tehanu has > a completely different feel from the first three books. The story > line of Tehanu is much less classic fantasy, and feminist issues seem > much more prominent. Has Le Guin ever directly addressed why she > wished to make the fourth book so different than the previous three? > > Thanks, I'm looking forward to the discussions! > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6GDALA/VovDAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-594-1019354693-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Apr 20 19:05:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.84]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3L24xx27242 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:04:59 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-594-1019354693-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2002 02:04:53 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 21 Apr 2002 02:04:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 54187 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2002 02:04:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2002 02:04:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2002 02:04:51 -0000 Received: from [216.80.74.107] (216-80-74-91.d.enteract.com [216.80.74.91]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7C4D783A for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:04:50 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Dave Awl X-Yahoo-Profile: dayvoll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:04:04 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] A Very Long Far Way Away Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1574 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 49 Quiet here lately. A quick note on something two weeks old: Hannah wrote: >you mean - a very long way from anywhere else? - excellent book! It's worth noting that UKL's beautifully insightful "young adult" novel starring Owen Griffiths goes by two different names...here in the States, it's Very Far Away from Anywhere Else. In the UK (and probably other places, I'm assuming) the title was changed to A Very Long Way from Anywhere Else. Not sure why, really...it's not like the original title would have baffled the English, whom in my experience are fairly clever about things like that... ; ) To anyone who hasn't read it, don't overlook it just because it's a skinny little book and gets shelved with Judy Blume novels. It's a wonderful coming of age novel that was a godsend to me in my adolescence and still speaks to me as I hurtle toward 40. And if you know a bright and too-brainy-for-their-own-good thirteen year old, you might make their year by giving them a copy. Out of print, sadly, but you can turn up used copies. Dave -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From lquilter@exploratorium.edu Sat Apr 20 23:53:33 2002 X-UIDL: ,p["!LD)"!XF"#!\Jj!! Return-Path: Received: from isaac.exploratorium.edu (isaac.exploratorium.edu [192.174.2.1]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA09639 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:53:32 -0700 Received: from localhost (lquilter@localhost) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3L6rIi01563 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:53:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Quilter X-X-Sender: lquilter@isaac To: lquilter@feministsf.org Subject: alternative title Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12 Laura Quilter / lquilter@exo.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:04:04 -0500 From: Dave Awl Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] A Very Long Far Way Away Quiet here lately. A quick note on something two weeks old: Hannah wrote: >you mean - a very long way from anywhere else? - excellent book! It's worth noting that UKL's beautifully insightful "young adult" novel starring Owen Griffiths goes by two different names...here in the States, it's Very Far Away from Anywhere Else. In the UK (and probably other places, I'm assuming) the title was changed to A Very Long Way from Anywhere Else. Not sure why, really...it's not like the original title would have baffled the English, whom in my experience are fairly clever about things like that... ; ) To anyone who hasn't read it, don't overlook it just because it's a skinny little book and gets shelved with Judy Blume novels. It's a wonderful coming of age novel that was a godsend to me in my adolescence and still speaks to me as I hurtle toward 40. And if you know a bright and too-brainy-for-their-own-good thirteen year old, you might make their year by giving them a copy. Out of print, sadly, but you can turn up used copies. Dave -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-595-1019411716-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Apr 21 10:55:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.73]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3LHtJx10770 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:55:19 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-595-1019411716-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2002 17:55:14 -0000 X-Sender: kesafloyd@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 21 Apr 2002 17:55:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 87478 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2002 17:55:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2002 17:55:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2002 17:55:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.187] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2002 17:55:09 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "kesafloyd" X-Originating-IP: 205.188.197.59 X-Yahoo-Profile: kesafloyd MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:55:08 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Corrections on Poll Results. Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 710 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 89 I don't know exactly what happened with the "Left Hand of Darkness" movie poll. The site reports 0 answers for both choices, but this is not correct at all. Last time I looked it was something like a man 30% a woman 70% I don't know what the site did with all those votes. -Alexand ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-596-1019413022-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Apr 21 11:17:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.65]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3LIH7x11153 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:17:07 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-596-1019413022-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2002 18:17:02 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 21 Apr 2002 18:17:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 14392 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2002 18:17:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2002 18:17:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2002 18:17:00 -0000 Received: from [216.80.74.107] (216-80-74-172.d.enteract.com [216.80.74.172]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA037583 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:16:59 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Dave Awl X-Yahoo-Profile: dayvoll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:16:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Corrections on Poll Results. Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1331 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 90 >I don't know what the site did with all those votes. Hmm...interesting. It should be noted that there's a larger issue of unreliability with those polls--whenever I've run them as a moderator of a group, I always hear from lots of members who say they are unable to access or vote in them. So I've come to avoid using them...I just don't think they're a reliable measure of group response. I would say that for anybody who does use or read the results of Yahoo Group polls, take them with a large shaker full of salt...because most likely, some people who would like to vote have not voted, others might possibly have voted multiple times (with or without meaning to), and the results themselves might not be accurately tabulated. "For entertainment only" is probably the way to look at them. Dave -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-597-1019470511-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Apr 22 03:15:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.89]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3MAFRx27111 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 03:15:27 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-597-1019470511-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Apr 2002 10:15:12 -0000 X-Sender: roddy.graham@virgin.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 22 Apr 2002 10:15:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 59482 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2002 10:15:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2002 10:15:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blueyonder.co.uk) (195.188.53.94) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2002 10:15:10 -0000 Received: from pcow057o.blueyonder.co.uk ([127.0.0.1]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:14:43 +0100 Received: from virgin.net (unverified [62.31.134.105]) by pcow057o.blueyonder.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.9) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:14:43 +0100 Message-ID: <3CC3E273.EC21B379@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: From: Roddy Graham X-Yahoo-Profile: rodbodtoo MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:14:11 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: A Very Long Far Way Away Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 998 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 201 Dave Awl wrote: > A quick note on something two weeks old: Hannah wrote: > > >you mean - a very long way from anywhere else? - excellent book! > > It's worth noting that UKL's beautifully insightful "young adult" > novel starring Owen Griffiths goes by two different names...here in > the States, it's Very Far Away from Anywhere Else. In the UK (and > probably other places, I'm assuming) the title was changed to A Very > Long Way from Anywhere Else. Not sure why, really... I would suggest (but hesitantly) differing ideas of euphony on either side of the Atlantic. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-598-1019566859-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Apr 23 06:01:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.81]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3ND16x13939 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:01:06 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-598-1019566859-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Apr 2002 13:00:59 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 23 Apr 2002 13:00:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 49339 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2002 13:00:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2002 13:00:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r06.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.102) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2002 13:00:57 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.19c.12ea30d (4588) for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19c.12ea30d.29f6b4f3@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 161 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: lobranwen MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:00:35 EDT Subject: [the-ekumen] Tehanu Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by isaac.exploratorium.edu id g3ND16x13939 Content-Length: 9315 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 465 I've been meaning for some time to reply to "flewddur"s question about the difference in tone between the first three books of Earthsea and Tehanu. Basically the answer is that during the many years between the third and fourth book Le Guin grew older and wiser and had come to question some of the assumptions her earlier writings were based on. In the forward to Tales From Earthsea she said, "In the years since I began to write about Earthsea I've changed, of course, and so have the people who read the books. All times are changing times, but ours is one of massive, rapid moral and mental transformation. Archetypes turn into millstones, large simplicities get complicated, chaos become elegant, and what everybody knows is true turns out to be what some people used to think." An interesting example of the way she constantly goes back and rethinks her attitudes can be found in the essay, "Is Gender Necessary?" as it appeared in Dancing at the Edge of the World. By 1987 she seems to have outgrown some of the statements she had made in 1976. So she reprinted the original essay, adding "a running commentary" in italics. In the introduction she explains, "It is rather in the feminist mode to let one's changes of mind, and the processes of change stand as evidence - and perhaps to remind people that minds that don't change are like clams that don't open." In another essay, "Prospects for Women in Writing", that dates from 1986, she says, "There is no more subversive act than the act of writing from a woman's experience of life using a woman's judgment." This of course is what she did in Tehanu which gives the impression of being less "classic fantasy". I don't really think of it as a "feminist" book, just as a book written by a woman from a woman's point of view. "Feminist" is one of those "patronizing adjectives reserved for women who write as women, not imitation men", that Le Guin mentions in "The Fisherwoman's Daughter." Further on in the same paper, she explains why the first books of Earthsea could have been written by a man. "‰¥Ïmy writing was controlled and constrained by judgments and assumptions which I thought were my own, but which were the internalized ideology of a male supremacist society ‰¥Ï until the mid-seventies I wrote my fiction about heroic adventures, high-tech futures, men in the halls of power, men-men were the central characters, the women were peripheral, secondary." There's more and it's hard to know when to stop quoting Le Guin, because it's all expressed so well. Perhaps the best thing would be to read the entire essay. By the way, I'm conducting a poll among my English friends to find out why the title of Far Away from Anywhere Else was changed in the British version. The Beginning Place appeared as Threshold, so it seems to be a confirmed habit. I'll let you know as soon as I get some feedback. Judy Dubois I've been meaning for some time to reply to "flewddur"s question about the difference in tone between the first three books of Earthsea and Tehanu. Basically the answer is that during the many years between the third and fourth book Le Guin grew older and wiser and had come to question some of the assumptions her earlier writings were based on. In the forward to Tales From Earthsea she said, "In the years since I began to write about Earthsea I've changed, of course, and so have the people who read the books. All times are changing times, but ours is one of massive, rapid moral and mental transformation. Archetypes turn into millstones, large simplicities get complicated, chaos become elegant, and what everybody knows is true turns out to be what some people used to think." An interesting example of the way she constantly goes back and rethinks her attitudes can be found in the essay, "Is Gender Necessary?" as it appeared in Dancing at the Edge of the World. By 1987 she seems to have outgrown some of the statements she had made in 1976. So she reprinted the original essay, adding "a running commentary" in italics. In the introduction she explains, "It is rather in the feminist mode to let one's changes of mind, and the processes of change stand as evidence - and perhaps to remind people that minds that don't change are like clams that don't open." In another essay, "Prospects for Women in Writing", that dates from 1986, she says, "There is no more subversive act than the act of writing from a woman's experience of life using a woman's judgment." This of course is what she did in Tehanu which gives the impression of being less "classic fantasy". I don't really think of it as a "feminist" book, just as a book written by a woman from a woman's point of view. "Feminist" is one of those "patronizing adjectives reserved for women who write as women, not imitation men", that Le Guin mentions in "The Fisherwoman's Daughter." Further on in the same paper, she explains why the first books of Earthsea could have been written by a man. "‰¥Ïmy writing was controlled and constrained by judgments and assumptions which I thought were my own, but which were the internalized ideology of a male supremacist society ‰¥Ï until the mid-seventies I wrote my fiction about heroic adventures, high-tech futures, men in the halls of power, men-men were the central characters, the women were peripheral, secondary." There's more and it's hard to know when to stop quoting Le Guin, because it's all expressed so well. Perhaps the best thing would be to read the entire essay. By the way, I'm conducting a poll among my English friends to find out why the title of Far Away from Anywhere Else was changed in the British version. The Beginning Place appeared as Threshold, so it seems to be a confirmed habit. I'll let you know as soon as I get some feedback. Judy Dubois I've been meaning for some time to reply to "flewddur"s question about the difference in tone between the first three books of Earthsea and Tehanu. Basically the answer is that during the many years between the third and fourth book Le Guin grew older and wiser and had come to question some of the assumptions her earlier writings were based on. In the forward to Tales From Earthsea she said, "In the years since I began to write about Earthsea I've changed, of course, and so have the people who read the books. All times are changing times, but ours is one of massive, rapid moral and mental transformation. Archetypes turn into millstones, large simplicities get complicated, chaos become elegant, and what everybody knows is true turns out to be what some people used to think." An interesting example of the way she constantly goes back and rethinks her attitudes can be found in the essay, "Is Gender Necessary?" as it appeared in Dancing at the Edge of the World. By 1987 she seems to have outgrown some of the statements she had made in 1976. So she reprinted the original essay, adding "a running commentary" in italics. In the introduction she explains, "It is rather in the feminist mode to let one's changes of mind, and the processes of change stand as evidence - and perhaps to remind people that minds that don't change are like clams that don't open." In another essay, "Prospects for Women in Writing", that dates from 1986, she says, "There is no more subversive act than the act of writing from a woman's experience of life using a woman's judgment." This of course is what she did in Tehanu which gives the impression of being less "classic fantasy". I don't really think of it as a "feminist" book, just as a book written by a woman from a woman's point of view. "Feminist" is one of those "patronizing adjectives reserved for women who write as women, not imitation men", that Le Guin mentions in "The Fisherwoman's Daughter." Further on in the same paper, she explains why the first books of Earthsea could have been written by a man. "‰¥Ïmy writing was controlled and constrained by judgments and assumptions which I thought were my own, but which were the internalized ideology of a male supremacist society ‰¥Ï until the mid-seventies I wrote my fiction about heroic adventures, high-tech futures, men in the halls of power, men-men were the central characters, the women were peripheral, secondary." There's more and it's hard to know when to stop quoting Le Guin, because it's all expressed so well. Perhaps the best thing would be to read the entire essay. By the way, I'm conducting a poll among my English friends to find out why the title of Far Away from Anywhere Else was changed in the British version. The Beginning Place appeared as Threshold, so it seems to be a confirmed habit. I'll let you know as soon as I get some feedback. Judy Dubois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-599-1019596513-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Apr 23 14:31:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3NLVTx06752 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:31:29 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-599-1019596513-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Apr 2002 21:15:14 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 23 Apr 2002 21:15:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 26122 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2002 21:04:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2002 21:04:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.116) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2002 21:04:08 -0000 Received: from smtp2.Stanford.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3NL48E13788 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sls-258c (sls-258c.Stanford.EDU [171.64.212.237]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3NL45w13772 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20020423134932.01462b10@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <19c.12ea30d.29f6b4f3@aol.com> From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: fafyti MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:05:14 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Tehanu Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1851 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 582 The reviews that _Tehanu_ got on publication make very interesting reading. Some reviewers found it a disappointing book, alien in feel from its predecessors and diminishing of them. Others felt differently, and I was among those who admired Le Guin's ability to reinvent Earthsea without, I thought, diminishing the standing of what came before. Le Guin has written several essays discussing what she had in mind. Besides the items Judy mentions, there was a lecture titled "Earthsea Revisioned," published as a pamphlet by Children's Literature New England. According to the publisher's website at www.greenbay.co.uk, it's still in print. And it's very much to the point and well worth reading. Judy wrote: >By the way, I'm conducting a poll among my English friends to find out why >the title of Far Away from Anywhere Else was changed in the British version. What I was told was that A Very Long Way from Anywhere Else_ (the UK title) was UKL's preferred title, over _Very Far Away From Anywhere Else_ (the US title). Why the US title was different is the real question, and that I don't have an answer to. > The Beginning Place appeared as Threshold, so it seems to be a confirmed >habit. I'll let you know as soon as I get some feedback. I recall, but cannot verify right now, that Threshold was the original manuscript title, though I have no word on the author's preference in this case. David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From owner-feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU Wed Apr 24 10:54:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from pear.cc.uic.edu (pear.cc.uic.edu [128.248.155.127]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3OHsbx11212 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 3812 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2002 17:54:31 -0000 Received: from listserv.uic.edu (128.248.155.131) by pear.cc.uic.edu with SMTP; 24 Apr 2002 17:54:31 -0000 Received: from LISTSERV.UIC.EDU by LISTSERV.UIC.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 863694 for FEMINISTSF-LIT@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:54:31 -0500 Received: from out008pub.verizon.net (HELO out008.verizon.net) (206.46.170.108) by listserv.uic.edu with SMTP; 24 Apr 2002 17:54:31 -0000 Received: from zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.93.118]) by out008.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020424175427.OUDJ11002.out008.verizon.net@zion.bellatlantic.net>; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:54:27 -0500 X-Sender: jdawley@impop.bellatlantic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020424133427.025df4b0@impop.bellatlantic.net> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:55:04 -0400 Reply-To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: [*FSF-L*] New Le Guin Articles on the 'Net Comments: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com To: FEMINISTSF-LIT@UIC.EDU Content-Length: 287 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 793 I thought list members might find these interesting. "A Magical Creator of Wizardry", in the London Times: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,923-276890,00.html "Driven by a Different Chauffeur", an interview by Nick Gevers on SF Site: http://www.sfsite.com/03a/ul123.htm -- Janice From sentto-2266408-601-1019715208-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Apr 24 23:13:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.91]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3P6DYx11285 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:13:34 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-601-1019715208-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Apr 2002 06:13:28 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 25 Apr 2002 06:13:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 90170 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2002 06:13:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2002 06:13:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r09.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.105) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2002 06:13:27 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.84.274e7d84 (3861) for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <84.274e7d84.29f8f882@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 161 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: lobranwen MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:13:22 EDT Subject: [the-ekumen] British titles Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 999 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 945 So far, all I've heard from my English friends is that A Very Long Way from Anywhere Else 'sounds "snappier" in colloquial English English.' i'm surprised that an author in good standing like Le Guin would accept the American publisher's decision on a title, then have the book printed under the title she liked best in Great Britain. It does lead to some confusion as when I delightedly bought a "new" Le Guin book in a Paris bookshop, then discovered I had already read it as The Beginning Place. Judy Dubois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-602-1019761078-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Apr 25 11:58:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3PIw2x02535 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:58:02 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-602-1019761078-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Apr 2002 18:57:56 -0000 X-Sender: leahrobinson11201@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 25 Apr 2002 18:57:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 36731 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2002 18:57:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2002 18:57:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web20207.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.226.62) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2002 18:57:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20020425185752.82483.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.88.85.193] by web20207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:57:52 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020424133427.025df4b0@impop.bellatlantic.net> From: Leah Robinson X-Yahoo-Profile: leahrobinson11201 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] New Le Guin Articles on the 'Net Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1117 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1086 Thank you Janice. Nice work. "Janice E. Dawley" wrote: I thought list members might find these interesting. "A Magical Creator of Wizardry", in the London Times: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,923-276890,00.html "Driven by a Different Chauffeur", an interview by Nick Gevers on SF Site: http://www.sfsite.com/03a/ul123.htm -- Janice To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-603-1019781541-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Apr 25 17:39:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.82]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3Q0d7x20145 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:39:07 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-603-1019781541-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2002 00:39:01 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 26 Apr 2002 00:39:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 63256 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2002 00:39:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2002 00:39:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.116) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2002 00:39:00 -0000 Received: from smtp2.Stanford.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3Q0cxE02102 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sls-258c (sls-258c.Stanford.EDU [171.64.212.237]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3Q0cww02093 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:38:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20020425173807.00ab48d0@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <84.274e7d84.29f8f882@aol.com> From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: fafyti MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:40:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] British titles Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1260 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1163 At 11:13 PM 4/24/2002 , Judy Dubois wrote: >So far, all I've heard from my English friends is that A Very Long Way from >Anywhere Else 'sounds "snappier" in colloquial English English.' i'm >surprised that an author in good standing like Le Guin would accept the >American publisher's decision on a title, then have the book printed under >the title she liked best in Great Britain. Publishers do strange things. >It does lead to some confusion as >when I delightedly bought a "new" Le Guin book in a Paris bookshop, then >discovered I had already read it as The Beginning Place. A very old problem. On a time, more novels changed titles on transatlantic journeys than didn't, I'd guess. This peculiar custom has been on the decline for many years: "Beginning Place/Threshold" is a relatively rare exception. David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-604-1019785204-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Apr 25 18:40:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.77]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3Q1e7x22765 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:40:07 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-604-1019785204-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2002 01:40:01 -0000 X-Sender: KesAFloyd@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 26 Apr 2002 01:40:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 86320 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2002 01:40:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2002 01:40:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r04.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.100) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2002 01:40:00 -0000 Received: from KesAFloyd@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.18a.711374c (3846) for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:39:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18a.711374c.29fa09e7@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 39 From: kesafloyd@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: kesafloyd MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:39:51 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] British titles Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 671 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1173 << A very old problem. On a time, more novels changed titles on transatlantic journeys than didn't, I'd guess. >> Take Harry Potter, for example: the philosopher's/sorcerer's stone. Alexandra kesafloyd@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/kesafloyd/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-605-1019824415-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Apr 26 05:33:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.65]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3QCXix01443 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 05:33:44 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-605-1019824415-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2002 12:33:38 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 26 Apr 2002 12:33:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 65460 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2002 12:33:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2002 12:33:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d10.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2002 12:33:19 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.3f.a8a3d55 (3890) for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:33:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3f.a8a3d55.29faa304@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 161 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: lobranwen MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:33:08 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 209 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 916 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1248 thank you, David, for reminding us about "Earthsea Revisited", which is really the best possible answer to the question of why Tehanu was so different from the earlier Earthsea books. I just reread it and it's a personal account of Le Guin's development as a woman writer finding the courage to write as a woman, but at the same time sheds a great deal of light on many of our unquestioned assumptions. Thanks again. Judy Dubois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-606-1019824946-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Apr 26 05:47:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3QClOx01766 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 05:47:24 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-606-1019824946-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2002 12:42:26 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 26 Apr 2002 12:42:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 38582 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2002 12:42:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2002 12:42:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m04.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.7) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2002 12:42:15 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 9.113.10959055 (3890) for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <113.10959055.29faa350@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 161 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: lobranwen MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:34:24 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 209 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 528 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1250 oops. I meant "Earthsea Revisioned" sorry. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-607-1019848356-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Apr 26 12:15:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.73]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3QJFlx16459 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:15:47 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-607-1019848356-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2002 19:12:36 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 26 Apr 2002 19:12:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 71626 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2002 19:12:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2002 19:12:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2002 19:12:34 -0000 Received: from [216.80.74.115] (216-80-98-222.d.enteract.com [216.80.98.222]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5FA174E3 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:12:32 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Dave Awl X-Yahoo-Profile: dayvoll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:12:20 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Salon.com on The Birthday of the World Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 684 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1300 Salon.com has included UKL's new book The Birthday of the World in its April books roundup... http://www.salon.com/books/review/2002/04/26/leguin/index.html Dave -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-608-1020001648-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Apr 28 06:47:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3SDlT120163 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 06:47:29 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-608-1020001648-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2002 13:47:29 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 28 Apr 2002 13:47:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 11357 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2002 13:47:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2002 13:47:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2002 13:47:27 -0000 Received: from du-033-0216.claranet.co.uk ([195.8.88.216] helo=Robins) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 171p1P-0006S9-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:47:25 +0100 Message-ID: <006001c1eebb$31bc3ec0$d85808c3@Robins> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:47:00 +0100 Subject: Fw: [the-ekumen] New Le Guin Articles on the 'Net Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2569 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1491 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robins- one of" To: "Robins - one of" Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] New Le Guin Articles on the 'Net > Very interested to see that the Times article identifies UKL as an influence > on Margaret Attwood - another of my favourite authors. Anyone else share > this? see examples of the influence? I've just been reading The Blind > Assassin which I'm going to be discussing with the Women's Book Club in my > village > Hannah > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robins - one of" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 2:35 PM > Subject: Fw: [the-ekumen] New Le Guin Articles on the 'Net > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Leah Robinson > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:57 PM > > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] New Le Guin Articles on the 'Net > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Janice. Nice work. > > > "Janice E. Dawley" wrote: I thought list > > members might find these interesting. > > > > > > "A Magical Creator of Wizardry", in the London Times: > > > http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,923-276890,00.html > > > > > > "Driven by a Different Chauffeur", an interview by Nick Gevers on SF > Site: > > > http://www.sfsite.com/03a/ul123.htm > > > > > > -- Janice > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-609-1020001710-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Apr 28 06:48:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.73]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3SDmV120177 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 06:48:31 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-609-1020001710-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2002 13:48:30 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 28 Apr 2002 13:48:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 90180 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2002 13:48:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2002 13:48:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2002 13:48:29 -0000 Received: from du-033-0216.claranet.co.uk ([195.8.88.216] helo=Robins) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 171p2L-0006bV-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:48:25 +0100 Message-ID: <006901c1eebb$51210ca0$d85808c3@Robins> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:47:44 +0100 Subject: Fw: [the-ekumen] New Le Guin Articles on the 'Net (2) Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2175 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1492 > And my comment on the other one (glad to get to read this - someone flagged > this up a while back or I found it referred elsewhere but I found the web > ref didn't work) > is on quirks in the publishing industry in terms of how they illustrate > their covers - presumably the ones shown in this article are the (some) US > versions - I'm afraid by and large I didn't take to them. Sorry if this > makes me narrow mindedly British - or do other non British people agree? in > particular what on earth (alright, not Earth, Urras/Anarres) was the picture > on the front of The Disposessed supposed to be about? > Hannah > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robins - one of" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 2:36 PM > Subject: Fw: [the-ekumen] New Le Guin Articles on the 'Net > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Janice E. Dawley > > To: > > Cc: > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:55 PM > > Subject: [the-ekumen] New Le Guin Articles on the 'Net > > > > > > > I thought list members might find these interesting. > > > > > > "A Magical Creator of Wizardry", in the London Times: > > > http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,923-276890,00.html > > > > > > "Driven by a Different Chauffeur", an interview by Nick Gevers on SF > Site: > > > http://www.sfsite.com/03a/ul123.htm > > > > > > -- Janice > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-610-1020022670-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Apr 28 12:39:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3SJdY126303 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:39:34 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-610-1020022670-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2002 19:37:51 -0000 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 28 Apr 2002 19:37:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 69126 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2002 19:37:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2002 19:37:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out008.verizon.net) (206.46.170.108) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2002 19:37:45 -0000 Received: from zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.83.174]) by out008.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020428193744.JPAC11002.out008.verizon.net@zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:37:44 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020428150355.025f3a00@impop.bellatlantic.net> X-Sender: jdawley@impop.bellatlantic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <006901c1eebb$51210ca0$d85808c3@Robins> From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:38:53 -0400 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1472 Status: RO X-Status: F X-Keywords: X-UID: 1526 At 02:47 PM 4/28/02 +0100, Hannah wrote: >Sorry if this makes me narrow mindedly British - or do other non British >people agree? in particular what on earth (alright, not Earth, >Urras/Anarres) was the picture on the front of The Disposessed supposed >to be about? That cover art makes no sense, I agree. It looks like someone got Anarres confused with Arrakis (Dune. Desert Planet.). But it's funny you should single that one out, as it's the only edition on that page to have come from a UK publisher (Millennium, an imprint of Orion Publishing Group). In general I am indifferent to most of Le Guin's cover art, as it most often fails to convey what I feel is the spirit of the work. But then, that's true of most cover art, isn't it? Does anyone have favorite editions of Le Guin's works? What are they like? ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: Television -- Television "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-611-1020025515-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Apr 28 13:25:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.91]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3SKPG127244 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:25:16 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-611-1020025515-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2002 20:25:15 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 28 Apr 2002 20:25:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 66487 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2002 20:25:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2002 20:25:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2002 20:25:14 -0000 Received: from [216.80.74.136] (216-80-98-37.d.enteract.com [216.80.98.37]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96BB07BC3 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:25:12 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020428150355.025f3a00@impop.bellatlantic.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020428150355.025f3a00@impop.bellatlantic.net> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Dave Awl X-Yahoo-Profile: dayvoll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:25:03 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1779 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1532 Janice wrote: >In general I am indifferent to most of Le Guin's cover art, as it most >often fails to convey what I feel is the spirit of the work. But then, >that's true of most cover art, isn't it? > >Does anyone have favorite editions of Le Guin's works? What are they like? The one thing I'll say is that I dearly love the cover for The Left Hand of Darkness that's shown on that page, the one with the male/female faces joined together, carved out of ice -- I think it's an incredibly haunting and beautiful image, and absolutely appropriate to the mood and spirit of the novel. Wonderfully surreal and imaginative, and you can tell it was created by somebody who actually read the book and got the essence of it -- unlike so many SF covers that have nothing to do with the ideas or events in the actual book. The only thing that mars that cover is the ugly starburst full of promo copy...it has the look of something that was added by the marketing department a few editions down the road, without the input of the original designer. If I had to choose a favorite UKL book cover, that would be it, hands down. (Which might be obvious because I used that artwork as the button for The Ekumen site on my portal site, Ocelot Factory.) Dave -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-612-1020121413-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Apr 29 17:13:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3U0DW114717 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:13:33 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-612-1020121413-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2002 23:03:33 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 29 Apr 2002 23:03:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 38252 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2002 22:00:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2002 22:00:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2002 22:00:02 -0000 Received: from du-023-0020.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.133.20] helo=Robins) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 172JBc-00013O-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:59:58 +0100 Message-ID: <002301c1efc9$292c0420$14857ed4@Robins> To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020428150355.025f3a00@impop.bellatlantic.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:59:24 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2650 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1724 OK - suitably chastened! My copy of The Disposessed looks nothing like it. In any event, many of my UKL books have cover pictures which are just vague generalist SciFi pictures - the main exceptions being the early Earthsea books. I only meant, honest, that I assumed they as they were unfamiliar they would be US editions, not that UK ones were going to be better. To answer Dave's question, I think my current favourite cover is probably '4 ways to Forgiveness' (ISBN 0-575-60175-2)although I'm also very fond of the back of my 30 odd year old children's edition of The Towers of Atuan - the front isn't nearly so good (not on the shelf where it should be, so can't look up the ISBN) Have you seen this? http://hem.passagen.se/peson42/lgw/covers.html Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janice E. Dawley" To: Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 8:38 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art > At 02:47 PM 4/28/02 +0100, Hannah wrote: > >Sorry if this makes me narrow mindedly British - or do other non British > >people agree? in particular what on earth (alright, not Earth, > >Urras/Anarres) was the picture on the front of The Disposessed supposed > >to be about? > > That cover art makes no sense, I agree. It looks like someone got Anarres > confused with Arrakis (Dune. Desert Planet.). But it's funny you should > single that one out, as it's the only edition on that page to have come > from a UK publisher (Millennium, an imprint of Orion Publishing Group). > > In general I am indifferent to most of Le Guin's cover art, as it most > often fails to convey what I feel is the spirit of the work. But then, > that's true of most cover art, isn't it? > > Does anyone have favorite editions of Le Guin's works? What are they like? > > ----- > Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT > http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ > Listening to: Television -- Television > "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, > with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-613-1020174281-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Apr 30 07:20:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3UEJw101510 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:19:59 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-613-1020174281-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Apr 2002 13:44:42 -0000 X-Sender: roddy.graham@virgin.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 30 Apr 2002 13:44:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 64838 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2002 13:44:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2002 13:44:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blueyonder.co.uk) (195.188.53.94) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2002 13:44:40 -0000 Received: from pcow057o.blueyonder.co.uk ([127.0.0.1]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:44:40 +0100 Received: from virgin.net (unverified [62.31.139.233]) by pcow057o.blueyonder.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.9) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:44:39 +0100 Message-ID: <3CCE9FA2.64075F97@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020428150355.025f3a00@impop.bellatlantic.net> <002301c1efc9$292c0420$14857ed4@Robins> From: Roddy Graham X-Yahoo-Profile: rodbodtoo MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:44:03 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2320 Status: RO X-Status: F X-Keywords: X-UID: 1800 Robins- one of wrote: > To answer Dave's question, I think my current favourite cover is probably '4 > ways to Forgiveness' (ISBN 0-575-60175-2)although I'm also very fond of the > back of my 30 odd year old children's edition of The Towers of Atuan - the > front isn't nearly so good (not on the shelf where it should be, so can't > look up the ISBN) My favourite covers are from a Puffin slipcase edition of the first three Earthsea novels. I don't have the slipcase anymore, and I have lost or given away 'A Wizard of Earthsea'. I have posted the other two at http://www.rodbod.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tombsofatuancover.html and http://www.rodbod.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/farthestshorecover.html > Have you seen this? > http://hem.passagen.se/peson42/lgw/covers.html Yes, and why don't we all send scans of covers, make it really comprehensive. > > From: "Janice E. Dawley" > > > > In general I am indifferent to most of Le Guin's cover art, as it most > > often fails to convey what I feel is the spirit of the work. But then, > > that's true of most cover art, isn't it? Heh heh, it certainly is, Janice. I remember an aunt offering me a copy of 'Left Hand of Darkness' which had what looked like an angel on the cover. The aunt being somewhat religious, I assumed the book was gonna be like the previous book she gave me ('The Cross and the Switchblade' - does this mean anything to anyone these days?) and declined her offer. On the other hand, I have an edition of 'Orsinian Tales' , which really fits the book:- http://www.rodbod.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/OrsinianTalescover.html Has anybody here ever seen a painting called 'Winter for Ursula LeGuin'. I saw it twenty years ago in an exhibition at the Edinburgh Festival but I've long forgotten the artist's name (sorry - quick google search doesn't turn it up). chiz chiz rdg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-617-1020273012-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 1 10:14:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g41HEV100915 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 10:14:31 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-617-1020273012-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2002 17:10:12 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 1 May 2002 17:10:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 14379 invoked from network); 1 May 2002 17:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2002 17:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scrabble.freeuk.net) (212.126.144.6) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2002 17:10:09 -0000 Received: from du-005-0102.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.134.102] helo=Robins) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 172xcF-00040g-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 May 2002 18:10:07 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c1f133$02f7b9a0$66867ed4@Robins> To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020428150355.025f3a00@impop.bellatlantic.net> <002301c1efc9$292c0420$14857ed4@Robins> <3CCE9FA2.64075F97@virgin.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:02:34 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2851 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2009 Yes, that's the Tombs of Atuan one - but what about the back cover? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roddy Graham" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:44 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art > > > Robins- one of wrote: > > > To answer Dave's question, I think my current favourite cover is probably '4 > > ways to Forgiveness' (ISBN 0-575-60175-2)although I'm also very fond of the > > back of my 30 odd year old children's edition of The Towers of Atuan - the > > front isn't nearly so good (not on the shelf where it should be, so can't > > look up the ISBN) > > My favourite covers are from a Puffin slipcase edition of the first three > Earthsea novels. I don't have the slipcase anymore, and I have lost or given > away 'A Wizard of Earthsea'. I have posted the other two at > > http://www.rodbod.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tombsofatuancover.html > and > > http://www.rodbod.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/farthestshorecover.html > > > > > > > > Have you seen this? > > http://hem.passagen.se/peson42/lgw/covers.html > > Yes, and why don't we all send scans of covers, make it really comprehensive. > > > > > > > From: "Janice E. Dawley" > > > > > > In general I am indifferent to most of Le Guin's cover art, as it most > > > often fails to convey what I feel is the spirit of the work. But then, > > > that's true of most cover art, isn't it? > > Heh heh, it certainly is, Janice. I remember an aunt offering me a copy of > 'Left Hand of Darkness' which had what looked like an angel on the cover. The > aunt being somewhat religious, I assumed the book was gonna be like the > previous book she gave me ('The Cross and the Switchblade' - does this mean > anything to anyone these days?) and declined her offer. > > On the other hand, I have an edition of 'Orsinian Tales' , which really fits > the book:- > > http://www.rodbod.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/OrsinianTalescover.html > > > Has anybody here ever seen a painting called 'Winter for Ursula LeGuin'. I saw > it twenty years ago in an exhibition at the Edinburgh Festival but I've long > forgotten the artist's name (sorry - quick google search doesn't turn it up). > > chiz chiz > > rdg > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-614-1020195970-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Apr 30 12:50:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.82]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3UJop118138 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:50:51 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-614-1020195970-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Apr 2002 19:46:10 -0000 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 30 Apr 2002 19:46:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 8194 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2002 19:46:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2002 19:46:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out012.verizon.net) (206.46.170.137) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2002 19:46:08 -0000 Received: from zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.93.6]) by out012.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020430194606.JWYR21380.out012.verizon.net@zion.bellatlantic.net>; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:46:06 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020430151226.02668bb0@impop.bellatlantic.net> X-Sender: jdawley@impop.bellatlantic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Cc: leguinsworld@mail.com From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:46:49 -0400 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1918 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1851 You all have inspired me to contribute to the cover art effort. I've scanned the covers of my older and/or rarer Le Guin editions and posted them at http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/leguin/ is anyone wants to take a look. I'm cc-ing Fredrik Petersson of Le Guin's World to let him know he can swipe the scans for his page if he wants. Dave, I agree that the cover of *Left Hand of Darkness* is striking, but I find myself resistant to the way it emphasizes a female/male split with the two faces. It implies that a Gethenian's physical appearance changes radically during kemmer, when that is not indicated in the text. It might sound nitpicky, but... it just doesn't work for me. As a side note, though, it's interesting that the art on my 25th anniversary edition is the same painting, but with the addition of a red-orange sun and a rosy glow on the woman's face. It gives a different feel to the painting that I like better than the previous version. Roddy, I liked the cover of your edition of *Orsinian Tales*. It's amazing how different it is from my own friendly, cute edition, which doesn't at all reflect the book's contents! Your death crows are closer the mark, though perhaps overshooting it a little. ;-) Best wishes, everyone -- ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: Television -- Television "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-615-1020196608-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Apr 30 13:02:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3UK2v119014 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:02:57 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-615-1020196608-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Apr 2002 19:56:49 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 30 Apr 2002 19:56:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 65294 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2002 19:56:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2002 19:56:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2002 19:56:47 -0000 Received: from [216.80.74.112] (207-229-155-90.d.enteract.com [207.229.155.90]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCE526F45 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:56:46 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3CCE9FA2.64075F97@virgin.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020428150355.025f3a00@impop.bellatlantic.net> <002301c1efc9$292c0420$14857ed4@Robins> <3CCE9FA2.64075F97@virgin.net> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Dave Awl X-Yahoo-Profile: dayvoll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:56:37 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 954 Status: RO X-Status: F X-Keywords: X-UID: 1856 > > To answer Dave's question, Somewhere along the line I think the various quoted text got confused, so I need to stop receiving unearned credit for the question that started this engaging thread -- it was actually posed by Janice Dawley. By the way Janice, thanks for the link to Ocelot Factory on your site. (And what an excellent and useful links page it is: http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/links.htm .) best, Dave -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-616-1020197386-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Apr 30 13:17:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3UKHK119824 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:17:22 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-616-1020197386-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Apr 2002 20:09:47 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 30 Apr 2002 20:09:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 56211 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2002 20:09:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2002 20:09:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2002 20:09:46 -0000 Received: from [216.80.74.112] (207-229-155-90.d.enteract.com [207.229.155.90]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7814C91D2 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:09:44 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020430151226.02668bb0@impop.bellatlantic.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020430151226.02668bb0@impop.bellatlantic.net> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Dave Awl X-Yahoo-Profile: dayvoll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:09:36 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2374 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1858 Janice wrote: >Dave, I agree that the cover of *Left Hand of Darkness* is striking, but I >find myself resistant to the way it emphasizes a female/male split with the >two faces. It implies that a Gethenian's physical appearance changes >radically during kemmer, when that is not indicated in the text. It might >sound nitpicky, but... it just doesn't work for me. Interesting...I guess I interpret that art very differently than do. I don't see it as a comment on the physicality of Gethenians at all, but rather on the inner nature of human beings -- after all, UKL says in her intro to the book that underneath it all she's talking about the androgyny in us earthlings. "Yes, the people in it are androgynous, but that doesn't mean that I'm predicting that in a million years we will all be androgynous, or announcing that I think we damned well ought to be androgynous. I'm merely observing, in the peculiar, devious, and thought-experimental manner proper to science fiction, that if you look at us at certain odd times of day in certain odd weathers, we already are. I am not predicting or prescribing. I am describing." So I see those faces as a portrayal of the inseparable male/female polarity inside all of us (and all Gethenians for that matter) -- the idea that you can't have maleness without femaleness, and vice versa. It's the inner androgynous principle rising out of the ice...and now, looking closely, I notice for the first time the brilliant touch of the tiny little man (Genly? Or us?) confronting that immense reality, awed. I could start in on what I think the ice has to do with but then we'd be here all week. ; ) Anyway, maybe that's why I like that cover so much...I see it as wonderful crystallization (you should pardon the pun) of the *ideas* of the book, rather than its plot or characters. Dave -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-618-1020277359-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 1 11:22:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g41IMe104503 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 11:22:40 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-618-1020277359-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2002 18:22:39 -0000 X-Sender: zaxl4@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 1 May 2002 18:22:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 3949 invoked from network); 1 May 2002 18:22:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2002 18:22:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2002 18:22:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.163] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2002 18:22:38 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c1f133$02f7b9a0$66867ed4@Robins> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "zaxl16" X-Originating-IP: 216.230.145.2 X-Yahoo-Profile: zaxl16 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 18:22:36 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 872 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2020 We're not as fortunate with art covers as US or UK, look at this cover of spanish editions: http://www.edicionesminotauro.com/8445070231.html http://www.edicionesminotauro.com/8445070584.html There's not enough money to invest in art for the covers I think, and are certainly not inspire at all. I also have various english editions, and also like the art of the Dark hand of the darkness, which BTW looks like the most persistant of all. axl. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-619-1020286473-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 1 13:57:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g41KvkH13378 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 13:57:46 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-619-1020286473-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2002 20:55:48 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 1 May 2002 20:54:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 45779 invoked from network); 1 May 2002 20:54:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2002 20:54:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2002 20:54:32 -0000 Received: from du-033-0243.claranet.co.uk ([195.8.88.243] helo=Robins) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17317P-0004jH-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 May 2002 21:54:31 +0100 Message-ID: <002501c1f152$61572d40$f35808c3@Robins> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 21:54:25 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1574 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2049 Oh I don't know Axl, I like the one EL NOMBRE DEL MUNDO ES BOSQUE (presumably The Word for World is Forest) it gives the right sort of beautiful paranioa feel and as for LA MANO IZQUIERDA DE LA OSCURIDAD (Left Hand of Darkness) the colour scheme is rather crude but I think the darkness in the hand is quite powerful Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "zaxl16" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art > We're not as fortunate with art covers as US or UK, look at this > cover of spanish editions: > http://www.edicionesminotauro.com/8445070231.html > http://www.edicionesminotauro.com/8445070584.html > There's not enough money to invest in art for the covers I think, and > are certainly not inspire at all. > I also have various english editions, and also like the art of the > Dark hand of the darkness, which BTW looks like the most persistant > of all. > axl. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-620-1020299741-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 1 17:36:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.65]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g420asH25028 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 17:36:54 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-620-1020299741-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2002 00:36:53 -0000 X-Sender: leahrobinson11201@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 2 May 2002 00:35:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 12686 invoked from network); 2 May 2002 00:35:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2002 00:35:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web20206.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.226.61) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2002 00:35:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20020502003537.83690.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.88.80.201] by web20206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 May 2002 17:35:37 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Leah Robinson X-Yahoo-Profile: leahrobinson11201 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 17:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1495 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2102 I think this is wonderful. The different titles and artwork. If the title is The Dark Hand of Darkness how does that translate to Left Hand. It seems it would give the flavor of the story a whole other meaning. What about this? zaxl16 wrote: We're not as fortunate with art covers as US or UK, look at this cover of spanish editions: http://www.edicionesminotauro.com/8445070231.html http://www.edicionesminotauro.com/8445070584.html There's not enough money to invest in art for the covers I think, and are certainly not inspire at all. I also have various english editions, and also like the art of the Dark hand of the darkness, which BTW looks like the most persistant of all. axl. Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-621-1020484987-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 3 21:03:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.91]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g44437H06486 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 21:03:07 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-621-1020484987-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2002 04:03:07 -0000 X-Sender: zaxl4@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 May 2002 04:03:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 49208 invoked from network); 4 May 2002 04:03:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2002 04:03:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2002 04:03:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.177] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2002 04:03:06 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020502003537.83690.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "zaxl16" X-Originating-IP: 216.230.145.2 X-Yahoo-Profile: zaxl16 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 04:03:04 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2699 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 352 Leah Yes, the art is attractive, in the context of the book, but if you're going to buy the book and don't know the story it's not as attractive as the English artwork, specially if you're a young reader. On the other hand "Dark hand of the darkness" is a lapsus calami, it was "Left hand" what I wanted to write. Sorry. But that leads me to your question again, I have read UKL in both english and spanish, my native tonge, and in both languanges the prose of Ursula is captivating. Some time ago I read a post in this list, someone saying that a book, "Always comming home" I think, remembers its home place in New Zeland. I have the same recollection with many of UKL books: the countryside, the towns of my country, even the people, she's able to write powerful and perdurable images that resist the hard change of language. I know UKL has a work of poetry, some kind of experiment, in english and spanish, but I haven't read it. Can some one give a comment on that? regards, Axl from Guatemala (and sorry for my english, as I said, is not my native tongue :) --- In the-ekumen@y..., Leah Robinson wrote: > > I think this is wonderful. The different titles and artwork. If the title is The Dark Hand of Darkness how does that translate to Left Hand. It seems it would give the flavor of the story a whole other meaning. What about this? > zaxl16 wrote: We're not as fortunate with art covers as US or UK, look at this > cover of spanish editions: > http://www.edicionesminotauro.com/8445070231.html > http://www.edicionesminotauro.com/8445070584.html > There's not enough money to invest in art for the covers I think, and > are certainly not inspire at all. > I also have various english editions, and also like the art of the > Dark hand of the darkness, which BTW looks like the most persistant > of all. > axl. > > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@e... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > --------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-622-1020554373-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 4 17:19:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g450JhH28291 for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 17:19:44 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-622-1020554373-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2002 23:19:36 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 May 2002 23:19:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 1561 invoked from network); 4 May 2002 23:19:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2002 23:19:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mclean.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.57) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2002 23:19:31 -0000 Received: from user-38lcca7.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.49.71] helo=spl) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1748oF-0002nO-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 04 May 2002 19:19:24 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c1f3c1$b195b260$473156d1@spl> To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020430151226.02668bb0@impop.bellatlantic.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 18:15:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3344 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 I agree with your analysis completely; people often miss the point with metaphors, and presume that there is a wider application to the point being made than for the present theme and plot. In the case of LeGuin, I feel this concept is debatable. For one thing, she gives us clues that she is referring to her present characters, and not to like folk (aliens, etc.) in other contexts. Thanks for sharing you thoughts ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Awl To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 3:09 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Janice wrote: >Dave, I agree that the cover of *Left Hand of Darkness* is striking, but I >find myself resistant to the way it emphasizes a female/male split with the >two faces. It implies that a Gethenian's physical appearance changes >radically during kemmer, when that is not indicated in the text. It might >sound nitpicky, but... it just doesn't work for me. Interesting...I guess I interpret that art very differently than do. I don't see it as a comment on the physicality of Gethenians at all, but rather on the inner nature of human beings -- after all, UKL says in her intro to the book that underneath it all she's talking about the androgyny in us earthlings. "Yes, the people in it are androgynous, but that doesn't mean that I'm predicting that in a million years we will all be androgynous, or announcing that I think we damned well ought to be androgynous. I'm merely observing, in the peculiar, devious, and thought-experimental manner proper to science fiction, that if you look at us at certain odd times of day in certain odd weathers, we already are. I am not predicting or prescribing. I am describing." So I see those faces as a portrayal of the inseparable male/female polarity inside all of us (and all Gethenians for that matter) -- the idea that you can't have maleness without femaleness, and vice versa. It's the inner androgynous principle rising out of the ice...and now, looking closely, I notice for the first time the brilliant touch of the tiny little man (Genly? Or us?) confronting that immense reality, awed. I could start in on what I think the ice has to do with but then we'd be here all week. ; ) Anyway, maybe that's why I like that cover so much...I see it as wonderful crystallization (you should pardon the pun) of the *ideas* of the book, rather than its plot or characters. Dave -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-623-1020556598-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 4 18:27:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g451ROH00139 for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 18:27:24 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-623-1020556598-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2002 23:56:38 -0000 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 May 2002 23:56:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 23907 invoked from network); 4 May 2002 23:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2002 23:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out003.verizon.net) (206.46.170.103) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2002 23:56:34 -0000 Received: from zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.82.156]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020504235633.XRWR8839.out003.verizon.net@zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 18:56:33 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020504194512.00a75a60@impop.bellatlantic.net> X-Sender: jdawley@impop.bellatlantic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020430151226.02668bb0@impop.bellatlantic.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020430151226.02668bb0@impop.bellatlantic.net> From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 19:57:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2730 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 A late response... At 03:09 PM 4/30/02 -0500, Dave Awl wrote: >Janice wrote: > > >Dave, I agree that the cover of *Left Hand of Darkness* is striking, but I > >find myself resistant to the way it emphasizes a female/male split with the > >two faces. It implies that a Gethenian's physical appearance changes > >radically during kemmer, when that is not indicated in the text. It might > >sound nitpicky, but... it just doesn't work for me. > >Interesting...I guess I interpret that art very differently than do. >I don't see it as a comment on the physicality of Gethenians at all, >but rather on the inner nature of human beings -- after all, UKL says >in her intro to the book that underneath it all she's talking about >the androgyny in us earthlings. > >So I see those faces as a portrayal of the inseparable male/female >polarity inside all of us (and all Gethenians for that matter) -- the >idea that you can't have maleness without femaleness, and vice versa. Well, maybe I can explain myself a little better. It's not just that the sculpture emphasizes male and female physicality, it's that it emphasizes maleness and femaleness as concepts when it's so important to the novel that the Gethenians don't think of themselves as male and female in one -- they are all a *single* sex that is neither female nor male most of the month. That duality is thus much less important to them than it is to us (or Genly Ai), so the image strikes me as an artificial layer of interpretation being forced on their world by the outside. In a way, I feel that it actually contradicts the message of the book. >looking closely, I notice for the first time the brilliant touch of >the tiny little man (Genly? Or us?) confronting that immense reality, >awed. You know what's funny? That tiny person is gone from the version of the cover I have. I wonder why? >I could start in on what I think the ice has to do with but then we'd >be here all week. ; ) I'm game! p.s. Thanks for the comments about my links page. I'm so glad your site is there to link to! ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: Television -- Television "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-624-1020851914-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 8 03:01:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g48A0wH08864 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 03:00:59 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-624-1020851914-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 May 2002 10:00:45 -0000 X-Sender: melinabi@tin.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 8 May 2002 09:58:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 19485 invoked from network); 8 May 2002 09:58:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 May 2002 09:58:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 May 2002 09:58:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.148] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 May 2002 09:58:33 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "melinabi" X-Originating-IP: 212.171.184.8 X-Yahoo-Profile: melinabi MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 09:58:30 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] (unknown) Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 898 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 881 hi, I am an italian student, Beatrice Verderosa, I am trying to write a report about Ursula Le Guin.The matter if my research is "the Left hand of the Darkness". Now I'am writing about ULG life and studies, but the next chapter of my report will be about the origin and the genesis of that book. If you have somenthing about this matter or something obout The left hand of darkness, can you mail it to my E- mail: melinabi@tin.it,thanks very much. Beatrice Verderosa ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-625-1021833150-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 11:36:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.93]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4JIacp17514 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 11:36:38 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-625-1021833150-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 18:32:30 -0000 X-Sender: paco_ahlgren@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 18:32:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 6618 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 18:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 18:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.71) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 18:32:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.167] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 18:32:27 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "paco_ahlgren" X-Originating-IP: 148.78.249.10 X-Yahoo-Profile: paco_ahlgren MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 18:32:23 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Taoism, Quantum Physics and Time Travel Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1199 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1050 I recently completed a novel entitled DISCIPLINE. The book deals with the connections between Taoism and other ancient eastern doctrines, quantum physics, time-travel, modern philosophies of science and economics. My work is heavily influenced by Thich Nhat Hanh, Alan Watts, Jiddu Krishnamurti, Richard Dawkins, David Deutsch and Hugh Everett, Sir Karl Popper, F.A. Hayek, Ludwig von Mises, C.G. Jung and Gary Zukav. My discussion group is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Discipline_Group My website is www.ahlgren.net. If you are interested, please join us. If this email is intrusive, please accept my apology. Thanks for your time and I look forward to seeing you. Paco Ahlgren paco@ahlgren.net ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-626-1021846551-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 15:15:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4JMFpp21633 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 15:15:52 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-626-1021846551-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 22:15:51 -0000 X-Sender: havzhiva@virgilio.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 22:15:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 79270 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 22:15:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 22:15:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.cp.tin.it) (212.216.176.222) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 22:15:47 -0000 Received: from enterprice (62.98.206.208) by smtp2.cp.tin.it (6.5.019) (authenticated as havzhiva@virgilio.it) id 3CDC178100090FC2 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 20 May 2002 00:15:46 +0200 Message-ID: <000001c1ff83$506ffe00$d0ce623e@enterprice> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "havzhiva" X-Yahoo-Profile: havzhiva80 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 23:41:30 +0200 Subject: R: [the-ekumen] (unknown) Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2376 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1089 Ciao Beatrice, sono anch'io uno studente innamorato delle opere di Le Guin e iscritto a The Ekumen. Ho letto il tuo messaggio e, visto che anch'io sto scrivendo su di lei, mi piacerebbe scambiare prima o poi con te qualche opinione. Mi ha incuriosito il tema del tuo lavoro: da che punti di vista hai intenzione di trattare il libro? (Sempre se ti va di parlarne, ovvio). Te lo chiedo soprattutto perch, essendo io uno studente di antropologia e Left Hand uno dei pi esplicitamente 'antropologici', la cosa mi interessa particolarmente. Purtroppo non ho notizie sulla genesi del libro (hai letto le parti de Il linguaggio della notte, Ed. Riuniti, che ne parlano?) Al massimo, posso copiarti o spedirti - o, se sei di Roma, darti - un articolo di antropologia che parla anche di questo libro. Non c'entra nulla con Left Hand, ma se ti interessa al link in coda alla mail c' un mio articolo sulla concezione del viaggio nelle opere leguiniane. Ciao! *Dario*Ranocchiari* or. message: > hi, I am an italian student, Beatrice Verderosa, I am trying to write > a report about Ursula Le Guin.The matter if my research is "the Left > hand of the Darkness". Now I'am writing about ULG life and studies, > but the next chapter of my report will be about the origin and the > genesis of that book. If you have somenthing about this matter or > something obout The left hand of darkness, can you mail it to my E- > mail: melinabi@tin.it,thanks very much. > Beatrice Verderosa ------------------------- linK: http://intercom.publinet.it/2002/uklg.htm ------------------------- "Non potete prendere ci˜ che non avete dato, e dovete dare voi stessi. Non potete comprare la Rivoluzione. Non potete fare la Rivoluzione. Potete soltanto essere la Rivoluzione. E' nel vostro spirito, oppure non in alcun altro luogo." U. K. Le Guin, The Dispossessed ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-627-1021978688-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 03:58:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4LAw8p16338 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 03:58:08 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-627-1021978688-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 10:58:08 -0000 X-Sender: melinabi@tin.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 10:58:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 99409 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 10:58:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 10:58:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fep15-svc.tin.it) (212.216.176.46) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 10:58:07 -0000 Received: from beatrice ([213.45.234.167]) by fep15-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP id <20020521105851.UKQX13534.fep15-svc.tin.it@beatrice> for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 12:58:51 +0200 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: High In-Reply-To: <000001c1ff83$506ffe00$d0ce623e@enterprice> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Beatrice Verderosa" X-Yahoo-Profile: melinabi MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:57:12 +0200 Subject: R: [the-ekumen] (unknown) Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by isaac.exploratorium.edu id g4LAw8p16338 Content-Length: 4360 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1591 Ciao Dario, grazie per aver risposto alla mia mail, in realtˆ la mia richiesta di materiale sulla genesi di Left Hand finalizzata alla scrittura di un capitolo; ho giˆ del materiale su questo argomento, ma mi manca il racconto Winter's King ( 1969) che la cellula di partenza di LHD. Il tuo articolo l'ho letto tempo fa , l'ho ttrovato interessante, anche se ci sono dei passaggi che non ho capito, in quanto facevi riferimento a testi e a concetti a me sconosciuti. Per quanto riguarda il mio studio su U.K.Le Guin ed i suoi scritti iniziato per caso cica un anno e mezzo fa; cos“ ho colto la palla al balzo ed ho chiesto la tesi su di lei. Il materiale che ho, l'ho trovato quasi tutto in rete, cmq sono abbastanza soddisfatta della ricerca, anche se ho ancora dei buchi da colmare. Di idee e chiavi di lettura del testo ne ho trovate varie, anche se in questo momento sono un po'confusa, non so quali scegliere e quali mettere da parte, cmq in linea di massima credo che gli argomenti centrali del mio studio su LHD saranno: l' androgino, l'interazione di polaritˆ, l' influenza della lingua nella comprensione del diverso, fino a che punto giusto parlare di diverso e di alieno, il rapporto tra ambiente ed istituzioni sociali ed infine la rilettura del testo come viaggio interiore. Spero di aver soddisfatto la tua curiositˆ; anche a me farebbe piacere scambiare quattro chiacchiere con te, fammi sapere. Ciao Beatrice Verderosa [Beatrice Verderosa] -----Messaggio originale----- Da: havzhiva [mailto:havzhiva@virgilio.it] Inviato: domenica 19 maggio 2002 23.42 A: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Oggetto: R: [the-ekumen] (unknown) Ciao Beatrice, sono anch'io uno studente innamorato delle opere di Le Guin e iscritto a The Ekumen. Ho letto il tuo messaggio e, visto che anch'io sto scrivendo su di lei, mi piacerebbe scambiare prima o poi con te qualche opinione. Mi ha incuriosito il tema del tuo lavoro: da che punti di vista hai intenzione di trattare il libro? (Sempre se ti va di parlarne, ovvio). Te lo chiedo soprattutto perch, essendo io uno studente di antropologia e Left Hand uno dei pi esplicitamente 'antropologici', la cosa mi interessa particolarmente. Purtroppo non ho notizie sulla genesi del libro (hai letto le parti de Il linguaggio della notte, Ed. Riuniti, che ne parlano?) Al massimo, posso copiarti o spedirti - o, se sei di Roma, darti - un articolo di antropologia che parla anche di questo libro. Non c'entra nulla con Left Hand, ma se ti interessa al link in coda alla mail c' un mio articolo sulla concezione del viaggio nelle opere leguiniane. Ciao! *Dario*Ranocchiari* or. message: > hi, I am an italian student, Beatrice Verderosa, I am trying to write > a report about Ursula Le Guin.The matter if my research is "the Left > hand of the Darkness". Now I'am writing about ULG life and studies, > but the next chapter of my report will be about the origin and the > genesis of that book. If you have somenthing about this matter or > something obout The left hand of darkness, can you mail it to my E- > mail: melinabi@tin.it,thanks very much. > Beatrice Verderosa ------------------------- linK: http://intercom.publinet.it/2002/uklg.htm ------------------------- "Non potete prendere ci˜ che non avete dato, e dovete dare voi stessi. Non potete comprare la Rivoluzione. Non potete fare la Rivoluzione. Potete soltanto essere la Rivoluzione. E' nel vostro spirito, oppure non in alcun altro luogo." U. K. Le Guin, The Dispossessed Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-628-1022263481-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 11:04:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OI4gp26415 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 11:04:43 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-628-1022263481-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 18:04:42 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 18:04:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 94988 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 18:02:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 18:02:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.116) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 18:02:09 -0000 Received: from smtp2.Stanford.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4OI28n07391 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 11:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sls-258c (sls-258c.Stanford.EDU [171.64.212.237]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OI27j07381 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 11:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20020524105659.00ab2e10@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: fafyti MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 11:03:30 -0700 Subject: [the-ekumen] UKL and US Supreme Court Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 994 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 976 UKL is one of the co-signatories on an amici curiae brief - a "friends of the court" brief submitted by uninvolved but interested parties, in this case several noted authors and the National Writers' Union - asking the Supremes to overturn the recent copyright extensions, on the grounds that much art is in some way derivative of earlier work, and will be suppressed if copyright becomes too close to perpetual. A pdf file of the full brief is here: http://eon.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/eldredvashcroft/supct/amici/writers.pdf David Bratman (info from BoingBoing.net) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-629-1022684078-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 29 07:54:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.99]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4TEscp26358 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 07:54:39 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-629-1022684078-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2002 14:54:38 -0000 X-Sender: mr_bu2002@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 29 May 2002 14:54:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 85237 invoked from network); 29 May 2002 14:54:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2002 14:54:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.84) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2002 14:54:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.138] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2002 14:54:34 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "mr_bu2002" X-Originating-IP: 216.228.130.148 X-Yahoo-Profile: mr_bu2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:54:34 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Lathe of Heaven 2002?! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1032 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1676 Hi, everyone. I'm new here. Last weekend, I finally read "The Lathe of Heaven," which I remember seeing the made for TV movie of many years ago on PBS. Anyway, I checked the Internet Movie Database and found two entries for the film. The first was the original 1980 production. The second was apparently a new re-make, dated 2002. The cast list includes Lisa Bonet, Lukas Haas, and James Caan. It is directed by Philip Haas. I haven't been able to find any other information about this project anywhere on the net. But I thought someone here might know something. ???......??.....?.... ? Thanks! -Brian* ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-630-1022685025-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 29 08:10:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4TFAQp26808 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 08:10:26 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-630-1022685025-lquilter=exo.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2002 15:10:26 -0000 X-Sender: heyiya@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 29 May 2002 15:10:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 10337 invoked from network); 29 May 2002 15:10:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2002 15:10:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.50) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2002 15:10:25 -0000 Received: from sdn-ap-001watacop1502.dialsprint.net ([63.187.197.232] helo=[63.187.197.108]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17D55j-0003Uv-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 29 May 2002 08:10:24 -0700 X-Sender: heyiya@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: heather w X-Yahoo-Profile: heyiya MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:10:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Lathe of Heaven 2002?! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 820 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1684 The earlier film has FINALLY been released on video and dvd, hooray! the 2002 one is either being done by A&E or the SciFi Channel, I believe, and will be a TV movie. I don't know the air date, though. SciFi Channel is also planning to produce Left Hand of Darkness and the Earthsea trilogy in the next few years. Heather * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * heather whipple heyiya@earthlink.net ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-631-1023213533-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 10:59:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA10680 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:59:01 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-631-1023213533-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 17:58:57 -0000 X-Sender: explorationb@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 17:58:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 697 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 17:58:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 17:58:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 17:58:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.159] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 17:58:52 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "explorationb" X-Originating-IP: 209.172.229.10 X-Yahoo-Profile: explorationb MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 17:58:52 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] New member!! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 97 Hey all! My name is Amy and I'm from Altanta,GA and I'm a new Ursula Le Guin fan. I first read the Wizard of Earthsea at the beginning of this summer for my Fantasy class and just fell in love with Le Guin's work. I'm really looking forward to the discussions on the list. Right now I'm attempting to write a paper about Le Guin but I can't seem to settle on a topic. If anyone could make a suggestion that would be great! -Amy http://temptuous-rage.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-632-1023223390-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 13:43:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA00650 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:43:15 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-632-1023223390-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 20:43:10 -0000 X-Sender: flamingcurls@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 20:43:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 15874 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 20:43:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 20:43:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 20:43:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.184] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 20:43:08 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "queeneagle_ge" X-Originating-IP: 207.107.12.33 X-Yahoo-Profile: queeneagle_ge MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 20:43:07 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] hello! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 108 hey folks! i'm also a new member! i totally fell in love with ursula k. le guin when i was about 8 years old and read CatWings, and since then, have always loved her, but haven't dove into her world more indepthly until now, (i decided to do my eng isp on her), and since, am a total fanatic! ne ways, i'm new, and i'm from canada! c ya around! queen ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-633-1023224237-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 13:58:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA05378 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:58:34 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-633-1023224237-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 20:58:25 -0000 X-Sender: explorationb@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 20:57:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 69911 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 20:57:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 20:57:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.69) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 20:57:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.180] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 20:57:16 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "explorationb" X-Originating-IP: 209.172.229.10 X-Yahoo-Profile: explorationb MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 20:57:16 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: hello! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 111 Queen- What's the topic for your english class? Is it just Le Guin or several authors. I'd love to hear more about it. -Amy To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-634-1023224675-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 14:04:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA07313 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:04:40 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-634-1023224675-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 21:04:35 -0000 X-Sender: whitefire@poczta.onet.pl X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 21:04:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 45016 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 21:04:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 21:04:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.poczta.onet.pl) (213.180.130.31) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 21:04:34 -0000 Received: from pf70.szczecin.cvx.ppp.tpnet.pl ([217.98.224.70]:7684 "EHLO cat") by ps1.test.onet.pl with ESMTP id ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 23:04:28 +0200 To: Message-ID: <000101c20c0b$68b28a20$46e062d9@cat> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: From: "Whitefire" X-Yahoo-Profile: alueri MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 23:04:11 +0200 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] New member!! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: F X-Keywords: X-UID: 112 Welcome! It has been almost a year now since I first signed up for this group. Sometimes, the discussions were interesting, but my general feeling is that it is quite hard to come up with something for an open discussion. Even what I write now goes to everybody on the list, whether they like it or not. But perhaps it's a good beginning to get in touch with interesting people. Initially, I joined because i needed some help with writing my M.A. paper. Now it is done, and it received very positive opinions. So thank you, guys and girls! By the way, it concerned the myth of the sea in works of Le Guin, Melville and some others. Perhaps you'd could write about that? Or simply about myth? Well, it's your decision anyway. Mariusz (strange? Well, I'm Polish :) And the name has Roman origins. My e-mail: whitefire@poczta.onet.pl ......................... Hey all! My name is Amy and I'm from Altanta,GA and I'm a new Ursula Le Guin fan. I first read the Wizard of Earthsea at the beginning of this summer for my Fantasy class and just fell in love with Le Guin's work. I'm really looking forward to the discussions on the list. Right now I'm attempting to write a paper about Le Guin but I can't seem to settle on a topic. If anyone could make a suggestion that would be great! -Amy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-635-1023286784-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 07:19:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA31296 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:19:51 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-635-1023286784-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2002 14:19:45 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 5 Jun 2002 14:19:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 65941 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2002 14:19:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2002 14:19:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r03.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.99) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2002 14:19:43 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.165.e42c99e (3984) for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <165.e42c99e.2a2f77f7@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 10500 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: lobranwen MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:19:35 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 222 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 144 One thing that has always fascinated me about Le Guin's fantasy is her concept of balance, that magic must be used sparingly because it upsets the balance of things. Besides making her plots more interesting, because the hero can't just wave a wand to solve all his problems, it also makes us think about the way we use modern technology, or the way we should be using it. Could that help you find a topic for your paper? Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-636-1023477925-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Jun 7 12:25:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA13756 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:25:30 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-636-1023477925-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2002 19:25:25 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 7 Jun 2002 19:25:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 1013 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2002 19:25:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2002 19:25:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp10.atl.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.246) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2002 19:25:24 -0000 Received: from user-38lccm1.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.50.193] helo=spl) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17GPMQ-0005qG-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 07 Jun 2002 15:25:23 -0400 Message-ID: <004301c20e58$86318b60$6c3756d1@spl> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:21:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: hello! Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 273 Well, sooner or later, you'll hear from the site owner, but, as I read it, it's mostly LeGuin, but other readers do talk about similar themes that various authors use. For instance, I'm reading Koontz and Octavia Butler right now. In several ways, they do compare to ULG. Go straight to the Ekumen website and browse around a bit. 'bye- d. thieme ----- Original Message ----- From: explorationb To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 3:57 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: hello! Queen- What's the topic for your english class? Is it just Le Guin or several authors. I'd love to hear more about it. -Amy Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-637-1023720206-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 10 07:43:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA30629 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 07:43:30 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-637-1023720206-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2002 14:43:27 -0000 X-Sender: iwr77@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 10 Jun 2002 14:43:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 19133 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2002 14:43:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2002 14:43:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.9.185) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2002 14:43:18 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 07:43:18 -0700 Received: from 146.186.159.216 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:43:17 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jun 2002 14:43:18.0178 (UTC) FILETIME=[28DCB020:01C2108D] From: "Ian W. Riddell" X-Originating-IP: [146.186.159.216] X-Yahoo-Profile: iwr77 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:43:17 -0400 Subject: [the-ekumen] Quote Help Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 378 Good morning all! I have a UKL quote that I can't find the source for. My partner would like to use it in his dissertation so we need to know what book it comes from. Most people who have quote pages on the Web don't cite specifically enough! Does anyone here know the source of this quote? I have this sneaking suspicion it comes from her poetry books (which I haven't read): "If you see a whole thing - it seems that it's always beautiful. Planets, lives.... But close up a world's all dirt and rocks. And day to day, life's a hard job, you get tired, you lose the pattern." thanks. blessings widdy _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-638-1023750348-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 10 16:06:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.99]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA07884 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:05:59 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-638-1023750348-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2002 23:05:52 -0000 X-Sender: patriciamaryf@iprimus.com.au X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 10 Jun 2002 23:05:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 42683 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2002 23:05:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2002 23:05:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp02.iprimus.net.au) (203.134.65.99) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2002 23:05:48 -0000 Received: from m1l8k9 ([210.50.17.54]) by smtp02.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4617); Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:05:46 +1000 Message-ID: <009501c210d3$4532dba0$361132d2@m1l8k9> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jun 2002 23:05:47.0078 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B01BE60:01C210D3] From: "patricia fenech" X-Yahoo-Profile: patriciamaryf MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:05:07 +1000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Quote Help Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 412 > > "If you see a whole thing - it seems that it's always beautiful. Planets, > lives.... But close up a world's all dirt and rocks. And day to day, life's > a hard job, you get tired, you lose the pattern." > > thanks. > > blessings > > widdy > http://www.gis.net/~kaverner/quotes.html says its from "The Dispossessed" http://www.rickieleejones.com/reading/someheros.htm this doesnt specifically cite the reference but seems to infer its from the collection "Sixty Odd" Pat Fenech _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-639-1023750979-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 10 16:16:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA10299 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:16:25 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-639-1023750979-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2002 23:16:19 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 10 Jun 2002 23:16:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 89733 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2002 23:16:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2002 23:16:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.116) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2002 23:16:18 -0000 Received: from smtp2.Stanford.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5ANGE815497 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sls-258c (sls-258c.Stanford.EDU [171.64.212.237]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g5ANG9T15451 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20020610161027.00ab4e68@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <009501c210d3$4532dba0$361132d2@m1l8k9> References: From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: fafyti MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:16:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Quote Help Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 414 At 04:05 PM 6/10/2002 , Pat Fenech wrote: >http://www.rickieleejones.com/reading/someheros.htm >this doesnt specifically cite the reference but seems to infer its from the >collection "Sixty Odd" I don't think the quote here is from a single source. I think it's a melange. It includes the line "Love doesn't just sit there like a stone; it has to be made, like bread, remade all the time, made new." which is one of my favorite Le Guin quotes and which comes from _The Lathe of Heaven_. David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-640-1023865179-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 11 23:59:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id XAA25044 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 23:59:40 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-640-1023865179-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2002 06:59:39 -0000 X-Sender: kinbote31@charter.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 12 Jun 2002 06:59:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 8983 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2002 06:59:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2002 06:59:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kempe.infinitejest.org) (66.188.136.19) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2002 06:59:38 -0000 Received: from there (james.infinitejest.org [192.168.66.4]) by kempe.infinitejest.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7055A20576 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 01:55:07 -0500 (CDT) To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] Message-Id: <20020612065507.7055A20576@kempe.infinitejest.org> From: Ted M X-Yahoo-Profile: LoanWookiee MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:58:02 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Cover Art Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 478 Amazon is a great trove of cover art. I've enjoyed exploring the UK and German sites for cover art in the past, but tonight I learned Amazon has sites in France and Japan as well: US: http://amazon.com UK: http://amazon.co.uk Germany: http://amazon.de France: http://amazon.fr Japan: http://amazon.co.jp The site layouts are standardized, so knowing each language isn't necessary to navigate the various sites. Take a look. Some samples to encourage exploration: Germany: Left Hand of Darkness http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/3453164156.03.LZZZZZZZ.gif France: Always Coming Home (at least I think so) http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/2742702989.08.LZZZZZZZ.jpg Japan: Always Coming Home http://images.amazon.com/images/P/458282899X.09.LZZZZZZZ.jpg And since I'm fond of the woodcut-style covers for Earthsea, here they are on japanese editions: http://images.amazon.com/images/P/4001106841.09.LZZZZZZZ.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/400110685X.09.LZZZZZZZ.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/4001106868.09.LZZZZZZZ.jpg - Ted ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Deo18C/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-641-1023906579-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Jun 12 11:29:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA15748 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:29:41 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-641-1023906579-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2002 18:29:39 -0000 X-Sender: rabbits@hedonism.cluefactory.org.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 12 Jun 2002 18:29:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 69394 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2002 18:29:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2002 18:29:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO saltationism.dnsalias.net) (62.31.72.192) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2002 18:29:38 -0000 Received: from rabbits by saltationism.dnsalias.net with local (Exim 3.12 #1) for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com id 17ICsD-0005yf-00 (Debian 2.1); Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:29:37 +0100 Sender: rabbits@saltationism.subnet.hedonism.cluefactory.org.uk To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <20020612065507.7055A20576@kempe.infinitejest.org> In-Reply-To: Ted M's message of "Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:58:02 -0500" Message-ID: <85u1o8ic4u.fsf@saltationism.subnet.hedonism.cluefactory.org.uk> Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0803 (Gnus v5.8.3) XEmacs/21.1 (Capitol Reef) From: Alison Rowan X-Yahoo-Profile: arowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: 12 Jun 2002 19:29:37 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] New Short Story Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 501 I found a new (to me) leGuin short story on line at http://www.infinitematrix.net/stories/shorts/seasons_of_ansarac.html It's called The Seasons of the Ansarac, and I liked it a lot. What do other people think? (It's not Ekumen, but I guess that doesn't matter.) Also, do any UK readers know when I can get Tales from Earthsea? Waterstones seem to be very confused about it... -- Purple Rabbits: also at http://www.cluefactory.org.uk/alison/ One day, you just have to decide to stop behaving like an 18 year old and start enjoying the life you've got. Even if that means just doing all the things you used to do but having a decent meal first. W.Ellis ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Deo18C/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-642-1023911761-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Jun 12 12:56:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.90]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA07317 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:56:03 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-642-1023911761-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2002 19:56:01 -0000 X-Sender: mgoldfar@mobius.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 12 Jun 2002 19:56:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 34095 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2002 19:55:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2002 19:55:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2002 19:55:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.145] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2002 19:55:59 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <85u1o8ic4u.fsf@saltationism.subnet.hedonism.cluefactory.org.uk> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "msg_from_ny" X-Originating-IP: 204.126.130.10 X-Yahoo-Profile: msg_from_ny MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:55:57 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: New Short Story Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 509 Alison - Thanks for posting the link, the story is (of course!) wonderful. It said at the bottom that it's to be published in Le Guin's next short story collection (not the just-published one). BTW, I've been lurking here only a little while, but I've been reading Le Guin's works with delight for almost 30 years. Nice place you folks have here! I'm really looking forward to discussing this stuff... ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Deo18C/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-643-1024381255-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 17 23:21:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.82]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id XAA06089 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:21:03 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-643-1024381255-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2002 06:20:55 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 Jun 2002 06:20:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 61831 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2002 06:20:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2002 06:20:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2002 06:20:54 -0000 Received: from [216.80.74.36] (216-80-74-36.d.enteract.com [216.80.74.36]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B72D9713E for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:20:53 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Dave Awl X-Yahoo-Profile: dayvoll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:20:34 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] spam avoidance measures Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 131 Dear Ekumenicals, Two of the Yahoo Groups I run (including this one, a ways back) have now been afflicted by spammers who are determined and industrious enough to actually join individual Yahoo Groups so that they can post their terrifying ravings about credit cards, home loans, and "barnyard girls" as actual approved members of the group. In order to spare our little community any more of that sort of trauma, I have made a slight change to our moderation policy. So, from here on in, all first-time posts from new members to this group (and for that matter, all of the other Yahoo Groups I run) will be moderated. I will *only* be examining messages to make sure they aren't spam -- other than that, the same guidelines we've always had about on-topic posts will apply. Once new members have proven they aren't here to prattle about home equity in all capital letters, they'll be able to post as freely and immediately as already-established members. thanks, Dave -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-644-1024694986-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Jun 21 14:29:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA16591 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:29:51 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-644-1024694986-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jun 2002 21:29:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 17714 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2002 21:29:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2002 21:29:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2002 21:29:46 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mccunem@hotmail.com Received: from [66.218.67.131] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jun 2002 21:29:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 21 Jun 2002 21:29:45 -0000 X-Sender: mccunem@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 Jun 2002 20:30:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 93819 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2002 20:30:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2002 20:30:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2002 20:30:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.136] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jun 2002 20:30:39 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "mccunem" X-Originating-IP: 207.218.185.74 X-Yahoo-Profile: mccunem MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:30:36 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] newbie; LHoD Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 343 I'm pleased to find this group. I have just started re-reading Left Hand of Darkness, one of my fave books. And I'm enjoying it very much. I just saw today that the SCI-FI channel has scheduled the airing of a new Left Hand of Darkness miniseries for 2003. Has anyone on here seen the LHoD play that was put on in 1995 in Chicago? I was looking for the script on-line when I stumbled on the info about the SCI-FI channel miniseries. -cheers, Marc McCune ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From lquilter@boalthall.berkeley.edu Fri Jun 21 16:14:58 2002 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 16:14:58 -0700 (PDT) From: lquilter@boalthall.berkeley.edu X-Sender: lquilter@walnut.he.net Reply-To: lquilter@boalthall.berkeley.edu To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] newbie; LHoD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 957 i saw the play, and really loved it. it was a very minimalist staging and it worked extremely well. the theater was one that frequently does children's productions ... laura quilter On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, mccunem wrote: > I'm pleased to find this group. > I have just started re-reading Left Hand of Darkness, one of my fave > books. And I'm enjoying it very much. > > I just saw today that the SCI-FI channel has scheduled the airing of > a new Left Hand of Darkness miniseries for 2003. > > Has anyone on here seen the LHoD play that was put on in 1995 in > Chicago? > I was looking for the script on-line when I stumbled on the info > about the SCI-FI channel miniseries. > > -cheers, > > Marc McCune > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Free $5 Love Reading > Risk Free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From lquilter@boalthall.berkeley.edu Fri Jun 21 16:16:26 2002 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 16:16:26 -0700 (PDT) From: lq2@feministsf.org X-Sender: lquilter@walnut.he.net Reply-To: lq2@feministsf.org To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] newbie; LHoD (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 960 i saw the play, and really loved it. it was a very minimalist staging and it worked extremely well. the theater was one that frequently does children's productions ... laura quilter On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, mccunem wrote: > I'm pleased to find this group. > I have just started re-reading Left Hand of Darkness, one of my fave > books. And I'm enjoying it very much. > > I just saw today that the SCI-FI channel has scheduled the airing of > a new Left Hand of Darkness miniseries for 2003. > > Has anyone on here seen the LHoD play that was put on in 1995 in > Chicago? > I was looking for the script on-line when I stumbled on the info > about the SCI-FI channel miniseries. > > -cheers, > > Marc McCune > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Free $5 Love Reading > Risk Free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From sentto-2266408-646-1025050882-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 25 17:21:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA12530 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:21:29 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-646-1025050882-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2002 00:21:22 -0000 X-Sender: feetup3000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 26 Jun 2002 00:21:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 18981 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2002 00:21:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2002 00:21:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2002 00:21:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.140] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2002 00:21:19 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "feetup3000" X-Originating-IP: 24.92.185.168 X-Yahoo-Profile: feetup3000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 00:21:19 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: spam avoidance measures Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 272 Although I've been a member of the group here for several weeks, I've never posted. I've been reading Le Guin for years (my ragged paperback copy of LHoD is copyrighted 1983...I need a replacement!) and have recently been trying to complete my Le Guin library. I'm enjoying the discussions here, especially since all the members understand what an important literary figure Ms. Le Guin is, in any genre. Thanks for the opportunity, and the group, Dave. Mike ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-647-1025724502-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Jul 3 12:28:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA22878 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:28:27 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-647-1025724502-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2002 19:28:22 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 3 Jul 2002 19:28:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 36011 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2002 19:28:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2002 19:28:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO granger.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.148) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2002 19:28:20 -0000 Received: from user-38lcdse.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.55.142] helo=spl) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17PpnW-0007k2-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 03 Jul 2002 15:28:18 -0400 Message-ID: <007501c222c7$269db060$f23056d1@spl> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:23:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] newbie; LHoD Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 485 Good for you & welcome to the "bunch". Isuggest you look up Octaqvia E. Butler. A very interesting & different sci-fi voice. ("Wild Seed" and other books). She's a little bit "preachy" but so what? Let me hear from you - Darius Thieme ----- Original Message ----- From: mccunem To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:30 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] newbie; LHoD I'm pleased to find this group. I have just started re-reading Left Hand of Darkness, one of my fave books. And I'm enjoying it very much. I just saw today that the SCI-FI channel has scheduled the airing of a new Left Hand of Darkness miniseries for 2003. Has anyone on here seen the LHoD play that was put on in 1995 in Chicago? I was looking for the script on-line when I stumbled on the info about the SCI-FI channel miniseries. -cheers, Marc McCune To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-648-1025725517-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Jul 3 12:45:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA28987 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:45:22 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-648-1025725517-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2002 19:45:17 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 3 Jul 2002 19:45:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 17603 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2002 19:45:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2002 19:45:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO granger.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.148) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2002 19:45:16 -0000 Received: from user-38lcc2t.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.48.93] helo=spl) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Pq3t-0004wA-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 03 Jul 2002 15:45:14 -0400 Message-ID: <009501c222c9$8423ba20$f23056d1@spl> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:40:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] spam avoidance measures Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 487 Thanks alot, Dave -- Monitoring is good! I, for one, won't complain.The"In Your E-Mail " bunch is particularly annoying. I get a whole bunch of theirs every time I sit down. Overall, though, I find the usual users are a lively, interesting group. 'bye-Darius Thieme ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Awl To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 1:20 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] spam avoidance measures Dear Ekumenicals, Two of the Yahoo Groups I run (including this one, a ways back) have now been afflicted by spammers who are determined and industrious enough to actually join individual Yahoo Groups so that they can post their terrifying ravings about credit cards, home loans, and "barnyard girls" as actual approved members of the group. In order to spare our little community any more of that sort of trauma, I have made a slight change to our moderation policy. So, from here on in, all first-time posts from new members to this group (and for that matter, all of the other Yahoo Groups I run) will be moderated. I will *only* be examining messages to make sure they aren't spam -- other than that, the same guidelines we've always had about on-topic posts will apply. Once new members have proven they aren't here to prattle about home equity in all capital letters, they'll be able to post as freely and immediately as already-established members. thanks, Dave -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-649-1025772907-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Jul 4 01:55:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.84]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id BAA03400 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:55:08 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-649-1025772907-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2002 08:55:07 -0000 X-Sender: melinabi@tin.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 4 Jul 2002 08:55:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 18331 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2002 08:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2002 08:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.cp.tin.it) (212.216.176.224) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2002 08:55:05 -0000 Received: from beatrice (213.45.234.171) by smtp4.cp.tin.it (6.5.019) id 3D2403AA00004AC2 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:55:05 +0200 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <007501c222c7$269db060$f23056d1@spl> From: "Beatrice Verderosa" X-Yahoo-Profile: melinabi MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:53:49 +0200 Subject: R: [the-ekumen] newbie; LHoD Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 607 I am an Italian Student, I am reading The Left Hand of Darkeness, I think that it can be read like an ironic an dsatirc work, what do you think of? and what do you think of the relationship between the androgyny and the climate? -----Messaggio originale----- Da: MindSpring User [mailto:dthiemepop@Mindspring.com] Inviato: mercoledi 3 luglio 2002 21.23 A: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Oggetto: Re: [the-ekumen] newbie; LHoD Good for you & welcome to the "bunch". Isuggest you look up Octaqvia E. Butler. A very interesting & different sci-fi voice. ("Wild Seed" and other books). She's a little bit "preachy" but so what? Let me hear from you - Darius Thieme ----- Original Message ----- From: mccunem To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:30 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] newbie; LHoD I'm pleased to find this group. I have just started re-reading Left Hand of Darkness, one of my fave books. And I'm enjoying it very much. I just saw today that the SCI-FI channel has scheduled the airing of a new Left Hand of Darkness miniseries for 2003. Has anyone on here seen the LHoD play that was put on in 1995 in Chicago? I was looking for the script on-line when I stumbled on the info about the SCI-FI channel miniseries. -cheers, Marc McCune To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ztNCyD/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-650-1025800183-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Jul 4 09:29:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.104]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA24941 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:29:47 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-650-1025800183-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2002 16:29:43 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 4 Jul 2002 16:29:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 22325 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2002 16:29:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2002 16:29:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hall.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.60) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2002 16:29:42 -0000 Received: from user-38lcdho.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.54.56] helo=spl) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Q9UC-0007e7-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 12:29:40 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c22377$5c04e420$383656d1@spl> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 11:24:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] newbie; LHoD Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 623 o.k.,Ms.Venderosa: Firstly, the author is a very experienced sci-fi writer, with gobs of books to her credit. This particular work is not satiric or ironic. One could say that it uses both metaphor and allegory. To put it directly, I believe she asks us to examine ourselves in the llight of experiences her characters are having in the "world" that she creates in her books. In this case, one has to think introspectively about the messages her characters are conveying to each other -- Do they apply to us? Let me hear from you again -- you can also ask her questions, directly, I understand. Also, her works have been read by countless others, so perhaps an open question on this website will bring you opinions of others. Best of luck & read on! - regards- Darius Thieme ----- Original Message ----- From: Beatrice Verderosa To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 3:53 AM Subject: R: [the-ekumen] newbie; LHoD I am an Italian Student, I am reading The Left Hand of Darkeness, I think that it can be read like an ironic an dsatirc work, what do you think of? and what do you think of the relationship between the androgyny and the climate? -----Messaggio originale----- Da: MindSpring User [mailto:dthiemepop@Mindspring.com] Inviato: mercoledi 3 luglio 2002 21.23 A: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Oggetto: Re: [the-ekumen] newbie; LHoD Good for you & welcome to the "bunch". Isuggest you look up Octaqvia E. Butler. A very interesting & different sci-fi voice. ("Wild Seed" and other books). She's a little bit "preachy" but so what? Let me hear from you - Darius Thieme ----- Original Message ----- From: mccunem To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:30 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] newbie; LHoD I'm pleased to find this group. I have just started re-reading Left Hand of Darkness, one of my fave books. And I'm enjoying it very much. I just saw today that the SCI-FI channel has scheduled the airing of a new Left Hand of Darkness miniseries for 2003. Has anyone on here seen the LHoD play that was put on in 1995 in Chicago? I was looking for the script on-line when I stumbled on the info about the SCI-FI channel miniseries. -cheers, Marc McCune To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pp91HA/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-651-1026620001-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jul 13 21:13:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id VAA12685 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 21:13:31 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-651-1026620001-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2002 04:13:23 -0000 X-Sender: rivenwanderer@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 14 Jul 2002 04:13:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 63771 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2002 04:13:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2002 04:13:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2002 04:13:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.170] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2002 04:13:22 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "rivenwanderer" X-Originating-IP: 129.101.5.160 X-Yahoo-Profile: rivenwanderer MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 04:13:21 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Very Far Away From Anywhere Else Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 970 {oh and hi I'm new and all that stuff :p } I'm in high school and I've enjoyed many of LeGuin's books {The Dispossessed, the Earthsea books, and others} but my definite favorite is Very Far Away From Anywhere Else. I wouldn't say I'm obsessed... not exactly... but I've read my paperback copy probably a half-dozen times already :} And it's not even in my usually favored genre {sci-fi/fantasy}... But I like it so much. Mainly because, in some ways, Owen *is* me. The way we think. The way we deal {or don't deal} with problems. The kind of friendships that we want. The kind of things we want to do. General bright little jerk stuff. Anyone know of other books in a similar vein, either by UKL or other people? And how popular is this book--how likely is it for the average high school student to find this book? I haven't seen any VFAFAE fan pages on the internet if you know what I mean... ~*~ riv http://rivenwanderer.cjb.net ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Save on REALTOR Fees http://us.click.yahoo.com/Xw80LD/h1ZEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-652-1026662760-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jul 14 09:06:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA25751 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:06:04 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-652-1026662760-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2002 16:06:00 -0000 X-Sender: alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 14 Jul 2002 16:06:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 1913 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2002 16:05:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2002 16:05:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.85) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2002 16:05:59 -0000 Received: from alisonpage.demon.co.uk ([194.222.142.202] helo=pre-installedco) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 17Tlsk-0001pb-0U for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:05:58 +0100 Message-ID: <006501c22b51$138abd00$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Alison Page" X-Yahoo-Profile: vilaphile MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:10:39 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Very Far Away From Anywhere Else Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 995 riv said - >I'm in high school and I've enjoyed many of LeGuin's books {The >Dispossessed, the Earthsea books, and others} but my definite >favorite is Very Far Away From Anywhere Else. > I'm new to the list too. I'm ashamed to say I don't know this book. Perhaps it's not published in the UK? Or is it a 'young adult' type book in which case I might have missed it. I'd be interested to hear more. I thought I might say a bit about my likes: The book of UKLG I read most is her translation of the Tao Te Ching. I think my favourite fiction is Left Hand of Darkness, though it's a close-run thing. Unlike many people I also enjoyed Always Coming Home, and I've just read Four Ways of Forgiveness (borrowed it off my dad, who is also a fan) and I liked it a lot. I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on these or other favourites. Alison ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Save on REALTOR Fees http://us.click.yahoo.com/Xw80LD/h1ZEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-653-1026670945-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jul 14 11:22:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA15918 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:22:31 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-653-1026670945-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2002 18:22:27 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 14 Jul 2002 18:22:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 66301 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2002 18:22:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2002 18:22:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2002 18:22:26 -0000 Received: from [216.80.74.116] (216-80-74-111.d.enteract.com [216.80.74.111]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 077AB7649 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:22:25 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <006501c22b51$138abd00$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> References: <006501c22b51$138abd00$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Dave Awl X-Yahoo-Profile: dayvoll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:22:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Very Far Away From Anywhere Else Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1009 Welcome to the list, riv and Alison. Alison wrote: >Perhaps it's not published in the UK? It was published in the UK -- here on The Ekumen we've previously discussed the fact that it was published under a different title in the UK: A Very Long Way from Anywhere Else. Also, instead of a phantom piece of pot roast that haunts Owen, it's a phantom order of chips. Kidding. >Or is it a 'young adult' type book in which >case I might have missed it. I'd be interested to hear more. Yes, it's a so-called "young adult" book which changed the lives of more than one of us here when we were, in fact, young adults, but it's an entirely worthwhile read for an old adult, too. It's currently out of print in the US and may be in the UK, too -- I recommend searching it out in a library if need be. It's a very quick read. best, Dave -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-654-1026671413-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jul 14 11:30:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA17376 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:30:17 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-654-1026671413-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2002 18:30:13 -0000 X-Sender: RachelBOsb@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 14 Jul 2002 18:30:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 76150 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2002 18:30:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2002 18:30:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d10.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2002 18:30:12 -0000 Received: from RachelBOsb@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id a.e.21e18985 (4258) for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:30:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 From: RachelBOsb@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: rachelbosb MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:30:06 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 233 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1012 In a message dated 7/14/2002 9:57:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com writes: > I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on these or other favourites. > > Alison > I'm in thIe middle of The Birthday of the World and enjoying it very much. I especially like the introduction in which UKL explains why she chose to re-visit each of the worlds in these stories. Since the collections A Fisherman of the Inland Sea and Four Ways to Forgiveness are two of my favorites and also two that she re-visits that's one reason I'm enjoying it. The other reason is the theme of love and its many manifestations. I'm not a big sci-fi or fantasy reader in general but read everything by UKL because of her incredibly compassionate way of exploring the meaning of being human. Favorites of mine that come to mind are the story The Diary of the Rose from The Compass Rose and Won't You Come Out Tonight from Buffalo Gals and Other Animal Presences. Rachel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-655-1026753912-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jul 15 10:24:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.108]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA01266 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:24:27 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-655-1026753912-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2002 17:25:13 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 15 Jul 2002 17:25:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 69459 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2002 17:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2002 17:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r04.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.100) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2002 17:25:12 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 4.6e.1f7eb62c (3866) for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:25:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6e.1f7eb62c.2a645f71@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 10500 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: lobranwen MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:25:05 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 234 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1142 I think Rachel's expression "her incredibly compassionate way of exploring the meaning of being human" is one of the best descriptions of Le Guin's style that I have ever come across. It seems to sum up why we can all be so fascinated by her work, whatever the many different categories that publishers put her books into. Judy Dubois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Save on REALTOR Fees http://us.click.yahoo.com/Xw80LD/h1ZEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-656-1026826672-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jul 16 06:37:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.78]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id GAA21800 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 06:37:57 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-656-1026826672-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2002 13:37:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 22336 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2002 13:37:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2002 13:37:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2002 13:37:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: gebeleisis_1999@yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.166] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2002 13:37:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 16 Jul 2002 13:37:51 -0000 X-Sender: gebeleisis_1999@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 16 Jul 2002 10:15:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 10041 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2002 10:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2002 10:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web21409.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.232.79) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2002 10:15:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20020716101551.92332.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.231.65.49] by web21409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 03:15:51 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: iatagan claudiu X-Yahoo-Profile: gebeleisis_1999 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 03:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [the-ekumen] u.k. leguin & other Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1264 hello i'm claudiu, from romania, bucharest i'm 27 years old i enjoy read science fiction. right now i read david brin's uplift war. beautifull. but u.k. leguin remain my favourite. my first u.k. leguin was rocannon world (12 or 13 years ago). excellent. i think that rocannon series are the best books from ursula. i would like to talk with you about it or other related or simply, other things. you want? claudiu __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Save on REALTOR Fees http://us.click.yahoo.com/Xw80LD/h1ZEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-657-1026830048-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jul 16 07:34:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA01230 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:34:11 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-657-1026830048-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2002 14:34:08 -0000 X-Sender: paula@ba.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 16 Jul 2002 14:34:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 99200 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2002 14:34:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2002 14:34:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail1.lc-2.la.inter.net) (203.176.88.90) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2002 14:34:06 -0000 Received: from paula ([200.26.77.137]) by mail1.lc-2.la.inter.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6GDOkC23358 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:24:46 -0300 Message-ID: <001001c22cd7$3c65f1e0$894d1ac8@paula> To: References: <20020716101551.92332.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "paula" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:43:13 -0300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] i am desperately trying to find a story.. Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1269 Hi, i am from Argentina and i've been a member of this list and enjoyed reading .. i love Ursula Le Guin.. But right now I need to find a story called "Slow Sculpture" by theodore sturgeon. Here in Argentina it is impossible to find. I've been everywhere and i need it to prepare a class. I was wondering if maybe one of you has it... ? i read it a long time ago, i just would need to know more or less what is it about, I have to teach a class to teenagers and i would have to adapt the story and tell it to them. Just wondering if any of you could help me with this? Thank you for taking the time to read this.. paula. ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-658-1027026828-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Jul 18 14:13:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.108]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA08864 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:13:53 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-658-1027026828-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2002 21:13:48 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 18 Jul 2002 21:13:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 76117 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2002 21:13:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2002 21:13:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.uk.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2002 21:13:47 -0000 Received: from du-033-0150.claranet.co.uk ([195.8.88.150] helo=Robins) by oracle.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 17VIam-0008tv-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:13:44 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c22e9f$feb2be80$965808c3@Robins> To: References: <20020716101551.92332.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> <001001c22cd7$3c65f1e0$894d1ac8@paula> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:59:22 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] i am desperately trying to find a story..(no joy) Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1714 looked at my small collection of 70s sf short story selections and found 2 by Theodore Sturgeon - but neither of them the one you're looking for - 'Like Young' and 'Never Understimate'. Then found I had a book of his own short stories called 'a touch of strange' but still no joy I'm afraid. Sorry paula Anyway, on message, what about Theodore Sturgeon - comparisons with UKL? I have 2 of his novels - 'The Dreaming Jewels' and 'More than human'. It's years since I read them, but think I'll give them another go to see if there's anything to share - anyone else interested? Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "paula" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] i am desperately trying to find a story.. > Hi, i am from Argentina and i've been a member of this list and enjoyed > reading .. i love Ursula Le Guin.. > But right now I need to find a story called "Slow Sculpture" by theodore > sturgeon. Here in Argentina it is impossible to find. I've been everywhere > and i need it to prepare a class. I was wondering if maybe one of you has > it... ? i read it a long time ago, i just would need to know more or less > what is it about, I have to teach a class to teenagers and i would have to > adapt the story and tell it to them. Just wondering if any of you could help > me with this? > > Thank you for taking the time to read this.. > paula. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/O3jeVD/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-659-1027026826-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Jul 18 14:13:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.104]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA08873 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:13:54 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-659-1027026826-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2002 21:13:49 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 18 Jul 2002 21:13:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 55430 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2002 21:13:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2002 21:13:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.uk.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2002 21:13:49 -0000 Received: from du-033-0150.claranet.co.uk ([195.8.88.150] helo=Robins) by oracle.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 17VIap-0008tv-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:13:48 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c22e9f$ff49ce60$965808c3@Robins> To: References: <20020716101551.92332.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:12:24 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] u.k. leguin & other Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1715 hello claudiu Rocannon's world was my 2nd UK Le Guin book, (Wizard of Earthsea first - and for me it was more than 30 years ago). It's a wonderful, haunting story, and I always cry when Rocannon gives 'a thing, a life, a chance: an eye, a hope, a return: the name need not be known. But you will cry its name aloud when it is gone' (in case anyone has not read this, and wants to, I won't give away what it was) The book has the germs of ideas used in UKL's future ekumen books - mindspeech of course and the ansible and Cetian numbers. It also has the idea she recently said was a mistake (when discssing the Churten drive) she hoped people would forget, (not being consistent with her wonderful convincing pseudo science) that people could travel FTL but died to do so. And of course it starts with the lovely 'Semley's necklace' story which comes in the Winds 12 Quarters. It also show its age because her ideas of the male and female roles are more simplistic than when her feminist ideas developed more complexity in later life. But I still love the book - thanks for bringing it up Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "iatagan claudiu" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:15 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] u.k. leguin & other > hello > i'm claudiu, from romania, bucharest > i'm 27 years old > i enjoy read science fiction. right now i read david > brin's uplift war. beautifull. > but u.k. leguin remain my favourite. my first u.k. > leguin was rocannon world (12 or 13 years ago). > excellent. i think that rocannon series are the best > books from ursula. > i would like to talk with you about it or other > related or simply, other things. > you want? > claudiu > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > http://autos.yahoo.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/wlyPtD/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-660-1027255823-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jul 21 05:50:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id FAA21881 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 05:50:26 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-660-1027255823-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2002 12:50:23 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 21 Jul 2002 12:50:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 29903 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2002 12:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2002 12:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d08.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.40) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2002 12:50:21 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 7.1a0.58d3bee (3998) for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1a0.58d3bee.2a6c0809@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 10500 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: lobranwen MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:50:17 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 236 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 173 I'm very interested in Hannah's idea about rereading Sturgeon and making comparisons with Le Guin. It seems like an intriguing way to go with this discussion group. But it will take me a while to get my hands on the book (I live in the country in southern France and will have to order it by amazon.com) before I can start reading. Hannah, would you like to choose one specific book or collection of short stories and set a date for the discussion? Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/O3jeVD/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-661-1027403550-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jul 22 22:52:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.108]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id WAA11521 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:52:38 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-661-1027403550-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2002 05:52:30 -0000 X-Sender: fredr@gci-net.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 23 Jul 2002 05:52:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 41064 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2002 05:52:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2002 05:52:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gci-net.com) (216.183.68.100) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2002 05:52:29 -0000 Received: from [216.183.66.117] (HELO fredrunk) by gci-net.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 5865731 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:44:51 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20020722225224.0085da60@216.183.68.100> X-Sender: fredr@216.183.68.100 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001001c22cd7$3c65f1e0$894d1ac8@paula> References: <20020716101551.92332.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> From: Fred Runk X-Yahoo-Profile: fnrunk MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:52:24 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] i am desperately trying to find a story.. Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 428 At 11:43 AM 7/16/02 -0300, you wrote: >Hi, i am from Argentina and i've been a member of this list and enjoyed >reading .. i love Ursula Le Guin.. >But right now I need to find a story called "Slow Sculpture" by theodore >sturgeon. Here in Argentina it is impossible to find. I've been everywhere >and i need it to prepare a class. I was wondering if maybe one of you has >it... ? i read it a long time ago, i just would need to know more or less >what is it about, I have to teach a class to teenagers and i would have to >adapt the story and tell it to them. Just wondering if any of you could help >me with this? Can you be more specific about what you want? I have the story in front of me, so let me know, and I'll try to help. Perhaps you should contact me directly at fredr@gci-net.com. -=Fred=- White cloud of mist Above white cherry-blossoms... Dawn-shining mountains ` - Shiki - email: fredr@gci-net.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NsdPZD/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-662-1027458637-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jul 23 14:10:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA10568 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:10:42 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-662-1027458637-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2002 21:10:37 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 23 Jul 2002 21:10:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 3848 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2002 21:10:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2002 21:10:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monopoly.uk.clara.net) (212.126.144.50) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2002 21:10:36 -0000 Received: from du-005-0234.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.134.234] helo=Robins) by monopoly.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #8) id 17X6vT-000PwB-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:10:35 +0100 Message-ID: <006e01c2328d$66b969c0$ea867ed4@Robins> To: References: <20020716101551.92332.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> <001001c22cd7$3c65f1e0$894d1ac8@paula> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:10:40 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] i am desperately trying to find a story.. Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 624 I may be giving you old news, but I tried doing a search on Theodore Sturgeon on dogpile, and came up with this site http://glinda.lrsm.upenn.edu/~weeks/misc/sturgeon.html and many more - not the text of the story your looking for tho just the information that it won prizes Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "paula" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] i am desperately trying to find a story.. > Hi, i am from Argentina and i've been a member of this list and enjoyed > reading .. i love Ursula Le Guin.. > But right now I need to find a story called "Slow Sculpture" by theodore > sturgeon. Here in Argentina it is impossible to find. I've been everywhere > and i need it to prepare a class. I was wondering if maybe one of you has > it... ? i read it a long time ago, i just would need to know more or less > what is it about, I have to teach a class to teenagers and i would have to > adapt the story and tell it to them. Just wondering if any of you could help > me with this? > > Thank you for taking the time to read this.. > paula. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/7dY7FD/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-663-1027459216-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jul 23 14:20:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA14347 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:20:21 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-663-1027459216-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2002 21:20:16 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 23 Jul 2002 21:20:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 49278 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2002 21:20:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2002 21:20:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monopoly.uk.clara.net) (212.126.144.50) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2002 21:20:15 -0000 Received: from du-005-0234.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.134.234] helo=Robins) by monopoly.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #8) id 17X74o-0000M7-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:20:15 +0100 Message-ID: <007501c2328e$c0039400$ea867ed4@Robins> To: References: <1a0.58d3bee.2a6c0809@aol.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:20:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 236 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 627 well I checked the amazon site and you can still buy things there, so I suggest More than Human and aim to discuss from the end of August how about it? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 236 > I'm very interested in Hannah's idea about rereading Sturgeon and making > comparisons with Le Guin. It seems like an intriguing way to go with this > discussion group. But it will take me a while to get my hands on the book (I > live in the country in southern France and will have to order it by > amazon.com) before I can start reading. Hannah, would you like to choose one > specific book or collection of short stories and set a date for the > discussion? Judy > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NsdPZD/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-664-1027642177-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Jul 25 17:09:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA14806 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:09:43 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-664-1027642177-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jul 2002 00:09:37 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 26 Jul 2002 00:09:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 49179 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2002 00:09:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jul 2002 00:09:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp6.mindspring.com) (207.69.200.110) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jul 2002 00:09:36 -0000 Received: from user-38lccb1.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.49.97] helo=spl) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Xsfl-0008M8-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:09:34 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c23438$01bef560$613156d1@spl> To: References: <20020716101551.92332.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> <001001c22cd7$3c65f1e0$894d1ac8@paula> <006e01c2328d$66b969c0$ea867ed4@Robins> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:15:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] i am desperately trying to find a story.. Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1096 Dear inquirer in Argentina looking for the Theodore Sturgeon work. There are countless search engines that will locate the book, and then of course go to Yahoo, or e-bay, or another, for purchase. The other thing you need to try is looking up a book that includes the story in a Library catalog or "on-line search" service. Many libraries have these, and offer them free on-line. For instance, St. Louis Public Library, New York Public Library, Los Angeles Public Library, etc. First, try looking up the title directly, and finding out whether it is in an anthology, pulished separately, whatever. Then go back up top & try again. I don't see that this is an unsolvable problem. Try finding a "computer-savvy" student or friend at a nearby University, or get a book on "how to surf" the internet. You need to stop crying for help and try to solve this problem by a little sweat and tears of your own. Or, to be brutal -- hey, go do it, bro &stop asking others to do it for you. Best of luck in your effort ----- Original Message ----- From: Robins- one of To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] i am desperately trying to find a story.. I may be giving you old news, but I tried doing a search on Theodore Sturgeon on dogpile, and came up with this site http://glinda.lrsm.upenn.edu/~weeks/misc/sturgeon.html and many more - not the text of the story your looking for tho just the information that it won prizes Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "paula" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] i am desperately trying to find a story.. > Hi, i am from Argentina and i've been a member of this list and enjoyed > reading .. i love Ursula Le Guin.. > But right now I need to find a story called "Slow Sculpture" by theodore > sturgeon. Here in Argentina it is impossible to find. I've been everywhere > and i need it to prepare a class. I was wondering if maybe one of you has > it... ? i read it a long time ago, i just would need to know more or less > what is it about, I have to teach a class to teenagers and i would have to > adapt the story and tell it to them. Just wondering if any of you could help > me with this? > > Thank you for taking the time to read this.. > paula. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NsdPZD/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-665-1027832710-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jul 27 22:06:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id WAA01068 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 22:06:57 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-665-1027832710-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2002 05:05:10 -0000 X-Sender: paula@ba.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 28 Jul 2002 05:05:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 7646 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2002 05:05:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2002 05:05:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.lc-2.la.inter.net) (203.176.88.91) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2002 05:05:08 -0000 Received: from paula (200-51-86-47.infovia.com.ar [200.51.86.47]) by mail2.lc-2.la.inter.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6S4ALr18630 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 01:10:21 -0300 Message-ID: <001601c235f5$c9776560$2f5633c8@paula> To: References: <20020716101551.92332.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> <001001c22cd7$3c65f1e0$894d1ac8@paula> <006e01c2328d$66b969c0$ea867ed4@Robins> <000001c23438$01bef560$613156d1@spl> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "paula" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:52:11 -0300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] i am desperately trying to find a story.. Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 284 FOr me it is not so easy, and thankfully , someone helped me and sent me a copy. You tell me to go to a search engine and all of that. Apparently you are not aware of the economic situation in Argentina, in which one dollar of your equalls 4 pesos of our currency. And i cannot afford ordering a book through Amazon as I used to do. Because what may be $ 100 turns out to be 400 for me. Anyway, i have already solved the problem thanks to some people who are willing to help knowing that if i can i will return the favour some day. before saying all of this, you should know a bit where i am coming from. I never go for the easy way out. I have tried to buy the book and here it is impossible to find. But i cna't order thorugh Amazon or barnes or whatever because all credit cards here have been cancelled.....it seems you dont know the problem here in our country. Thank you anyway, paula. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NsdPZD/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-666-1027861648-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jul 28 06:07:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id GAA01259 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 06:07:30 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-666-1027861648-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2002 13:07:28 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 28 Jul 2002 13:07:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 14260 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2002 13:07:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2002 13:07:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO barry.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.25) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2002 13:07:27 -0000 Received: from user-38lcdhh.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.54.49] helo=spl) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17Ynlb-0002q4-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 09:07:23 -0400 Message-ID: <003b01c23636$fd4b4e60$d63656d1@spl> To: References: <20020716101551.92332.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> <001001c22cd7$3c65f1e0$894d1ac8@paula> <006e01c2328d$66b969c0$ea867ed4@Robins> <000001c23438$01bef560$613156d1@spl> <001601c235f5$c9776560$2f5633c8@paula> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 08:01:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] i am desperately trying to find a story.. Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 299 Well -- I do, and I don't know. I do know that there are free search engines that are open to all. As far as the currency situation, I know, and I know it is now virtually mpossible for you to bjuy stuff in the normal way. That's why I suggested the various web sources, including public libraries and their catalogs. The three I told you about all have open access to their catalogs. Whether this approach will work, of course, I don't know. I think it should, but I am not there sitting in your shoes. Don't give up, though; this is how scholarship proceeds. It has its ups and downs. I'm a writer, and every now and then I can't find someone by normal means, or phones are disconnected, or there are incessant answering service menus. But I plod on -- Often I just plain don't get what I want, and have to move on to another topic..;.... In any case: Best wishes to you & peace: darius thieme ----- Original Message ----- From: paula To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] i am desperately trying to find a story.. FOr me it is not so easy, and thankfully , someone helped me and sent me a copy. You tell me to go to a search engine and all of that. Apparently you are not aware of the economic situation in Argentina, in which one dollar of your equalls 4 pesos of our currency. And i cannot afford ordering a book through Amazon as I used to do. Because what may be $ 100 turns out to be 400 for me. Anyway, i have already solved the problem thanks to some people who are willing to help knowing that if i can i will return the favour some day. before saying all of this, you should know a bit where i am coming from. I never go for the easy way out. I have tried to buy the book and here it is impossible to find. But i cna't order thorugh Amazon or barnes or whatever because all credit cards here have been cancelled.....it seems you dont know the problem here in our country. Thank you anyway, paula. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NsdPZD/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-667-1027968896-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jul 29 11:55:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA26407 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:55:00 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-667-1027968896-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2002 18:54:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 63623 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2002 18:54:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jul 2002 18:54:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2002 18:54:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jabowait@yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.157] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2002 18:54:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 29 Jul 2002 18:54:53 -0000 X-Sender: jabowait@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 29 Jul 2002 15:36:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 38729 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2002 15:36:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jul 2002 15:36:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web9104.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.128.241) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2002 15:36:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20020729153603.51540.qmail@web9104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [169.207.134.90] by web9104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:36:03 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Jude JaboWait X-Yahoo-Profile: jabowait MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [the-ekumen] LeGuin and Sustainable Architecture Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 502 I've always been struck by the architectural aspects of LeGuin's stories. Besides adding to the visual experience of reading her work, they provide fodder to my considerations on how one can employ more earth-friendly habits, designs, and products in one's life. Does anyone here find that their reading of LeGuin has influenced their lifestyle in this way? Jabo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/7dY7FD/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-668-1027977905-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jul 29 14:25:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA08389 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:25:11 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-668-1027977905-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2002 21:25:06 -0000 X-Sender: the_last_naiad@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 29 Jul 2002 21:25:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 1257 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2002 21:25:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jul 2002 21:25:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.9.205) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2002 21:25:05 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:25:05 -0700 Received: from 139.80.123.1 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:25:04 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jul 2002 21:25:05.0085 (UTC) FILETIME=[67F086D0:01C23746] From: "Jenn Martin" X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.1] X-Yahoo-Profile: wateryone MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:25:04 +1200 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] LeGuin and Sustainable Architecture Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 537 I've always been interested in Le Guin and environmental sustainability as well, Jabo. Especially in Always Coming Home and the Dispossessed, although I've never really thought about it much in relation to her short stories. There are certainly lots of passages in Always Coming Home that talk about the Kesh's relationship to their valley, and I think the houses they live in seem just marvelous. The thing I have noticed about Le Guin is the way she uses the social structure of her societies to promote environmental sustainability. Like with the Kesh, if you hoard food, or are seen to not be sharing, you are socially ostracised. And in the Dispossessed, if you are seen to be a 'profiteer' or someone who owns personal possessions, you are scorned. She seems to promote a very communal, shared way of life. Also in the Dipossessed, there seem to be design standards on the anarchistic moon that people follow, I seem to remember things being designed in colours and materials that worked with the natural environment. Le Guin is recognised by that strange and wonderful group of scholars called ecocritics as a writer who explores an environmental sensibility and awareness in her writing that creates a place for critics where ecology and literary criticism can meet. Her essay 'The Carrier Bag Theory of Fiction' explores the idea of ecocriticism indirectly, and may help shed some light on the concept. I also came across a very interesting article in Utopian Studies on Saturday called "The underestimation of politics in green utopias : the description of politics in Huxley's Island, Le Guin's The Dipossessed and Callenbach's Ecotopia" (2001 v.12:1 p56) by Werner Christie Mathisen that discusses that ways in which the political and social organisation of Le guin's anarchistic moon in the Dispossessed contributes to its sustainable way of life. Fascinating. Jenn (keen to discuss this further) > >I've always been struck by the architectural aspects >of LeGuin's stories. Besides adding to the visual >experience of reading her work, they provide fodder to >my considerations on how one can employ more >earth-friendly habits, designs, and products in one's >life. > >Does anyone here find that their reading of LeGuin has >influenced their lifestyle in this way? > >Jabo > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better >http://health.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NsdPZD/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-669-1028038366-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jul 30 07:12:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.83]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA15779 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:12:49 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-669-1028038366-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2002 14:12:47 -0000 X-Sender: peterseyferth@mac.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 30 Jul 2002 14:12:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 57785 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2002 14:12:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2002 14:12:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpout.mac.com) (204.179.120.97) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2002 14:12:46 -0000 Received: from smtp-relay03.mac.com (smtp-relay03-en1 [10.13.10.222]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id g6UECkCr004031 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtp-relay03.mac.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/1.0) with ESMTP id g6UECjKN022916 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] ([217.235.120.106]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id H02FH800.3H0 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:12:44 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1309 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1027991531.115.7642.m12@yahoogroups.com> From: Peter Seyferth X-Yahoo-Profile: peterseyferth MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:12:32 +0200 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: LeGuin and Sustainable Architecture Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 641 In both utopias, The Dispossessed and Always Coming Home, there is a theoretical ideal of the structure of towns. For the anarchists on Anarres, Odos theories of decentralism is the core of city architecture. The size of a town should depend on the food and energy found in the near environment of the town. All towns should be linked by a communications and transports network. This should not be hierarchical and therefore there should be no control center or capital. The ideal structure of a town in the Na Valley is the heyiya-if double helix. Every town is a part of that pattern. The living houses build the left arm of the spiral, the heyimas build the right arm. In the middle there is water, and there are two free places: the Dancing Place and the Common Place. But neither on Anarres nor in Na Valley the ideal can be reached. Odo has never been on Anarres, her theories are based upon the rich environment of Urras. On Anarres the towns have very far distances between them because of the bad food supply. To coordinate the distribution of work and goods, computers are used. And unfortunately, the computers are all in one town, Abbenay. So there is a center, which is made almost a capital by the federation of the syndicates that use the computer. This is one reason (of many) that makes The Dispossessed an ambigous utopia. The Kesh do not know unsufficient food supply or even famine. Their ideal of a town is not realised always, though. You can feel the spiral form, but it is not met exactly. And the towns of Kastoha and Telina are so big that there have to be several left arms. And of course, both the Dancing and the Common Place are common, and on both people dance. As beautiful an ideal may sound to us, the realisation is another thing. This does not only fit to an architect's model of your house, which does look quite different than the real house when in use for a few years. I think this is also a metaphor for utopias in general: They too may sound beautiful to us but are read easier than realised. Peter ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-670-1028066172-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jul 30 14:56:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.104]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA21805 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:56:17 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-670-1028066172-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2002 21:56:12 -0000 X-Sender: jabowait@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 30 Jul 2002 21:56:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 3108 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2002 21:56:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2002 21:56:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web9106.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.128.243) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2002 21:56:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20020730215611.51065.qmail@web9106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [169.207.135.32] by web9106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:56:11 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1027991531.115.7642.m12@yahoogroups.com> From: Jude JaboWait X-Yahoo-Profile: jabowait MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 241 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 752 Hmmm, I'll need to think about your remarks, Jenn. When I initially posted I was thinking more literally of architecture as my brother is an architect who promotes "green building." He is currently building a home for himself using the straw bale/mud-clay method. I'd read Dispossessed decades before and was struck at how this method "fit" my visual image of the buildings on Shevek's world. I should reread Always Coming Home, though -- I "saw" less architecture than I was trying to put together the anthropology of the events and location. I will have to look up the reference to I used to teach an undergraduate science fiction class; one segment of my syllabus looked at utopias. On that note, I recommend by Christopher Alexander, Sara Ishikawa, and Murray Silverstein. (NY: Oxford Univ Press, 1977) From the dustcover blurb: "At the core...is the idea that people should design for themselves their own houses, streets, and communities. This idea may be radical... but it comes simply from the observation that most of the wonderful places of the world were not made by architects but by the people." I have a sketchbook in which I design and re-design a home for myself. Over the years the layout changes -- and as I get older I find the design more intensely focusing on human interaction rather than "house as display." Jabo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/7dY7FD/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-671-1028090838-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jul 30 21:47:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.90]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id VAA23300 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:47:25 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-671-1028090838-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2002 04:47:18 -0000 X-Sender: heyiya@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 31 Jul 2002 04:47:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 49068 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2002 04:47:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2002 04:47:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.232) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2002 04:47:16 -0000 Received: from sdn-ap-001watacop0352.dialsprint.net ([63.187.193.98]) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZlOF-00059u-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:47:16 -0700 X-Sender: heyiya@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020730215611.51065.qmail@web9106.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020730215611.51065.qmail@web9106.mail.yahoo.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: heather w X-Yahoo-Profile: heyiya MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:48:09 -0700 Subject: [the-ekumen] another architectural story Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 827 UKL has a story in the 2001 collection _Red Shift: Extreme Visions of Speculative Fiction_, edited by Al Sarrantonio; her story is called "The Building" (pp 43-50) and it's about, well, a building. This building is central to the culture that builds it but physically far-removed from where they actually live, and nobody lives or works in it. Heather * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * heather whipple heyiya@earthlink.net see also: Broad Universe www.broaduniverse.org -- celebrating and promoting women in sf/f/h ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NsdPZD/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-672-1028411682-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Aug 3 14:54:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA26601 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2002 14:54:48 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-672-1028411682-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Aug 2002 21:54:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 21697 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 21:54:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2002 21:54:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 21:54:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: vetch68@yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.180] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Aug 2002 21:54:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 03 Aug 2002 21:54:39 -0000 X-Sender: vetch68@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 3 Aug 2002 19:53:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 47799 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 19:53:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2002 19:53:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 19:53:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.165] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Aug 2002 19:53:44 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "vetch68" X-Originating-IP: 65.194.230.75 X-Yahoo-Profile: vetch68 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 19:53:42 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] well I read A Wizard of Earthsea... Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1466 and LOVED it! ! I can hardly wait to read The Tombs of Atuan. I don't figure on being a regular poster as I do not get online much but when I do I will check this group out. Vic To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-673-1029751605-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Aug 19 03:06:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id DAA31262 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 03:06:46 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-673-1029751605-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Aug 2002 10:06:45 -0000 X-Sender: fredrik.petersson@interactiveinstitute.se X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 19 Aug 2002 10:06:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 82188 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 10:06:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Aug 2002 10:06:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nav.interactiveinstitute.se) (195.149.141.29) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 10:06:43 -0000 Received: from peson3 (peson.interactiveinstitute.se [195.149.141.30]) by nav.interactiveinstitute.se (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id g7JA6g0l025702 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 12:06:42 +0200 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) X-eGroups-From: "Fredrik Petersson" From: "Fredrik Petersson" X-Yahoo-Profile: fredrik_petersson MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 12:05:59 +0200 Subject: SV: [the-ekumen] The heyimas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 396 Hi all I saw you mentioning both architecture and the Valley of _Always Coming Home_ and it reminded me of something I thought of when I read it. Did anybody manage to visualize what the heyimas really looked like? With, what was it, a pentagonal roof on a quadratic building, or if it was the other way around. (Five and four - another allusion to the Five Houses or Earth and the Four Houses of Sky). Could you even fit some type of double spiral in there to make the sides meet somehow? I know some architects myself, I should ask them. heya heya hey heya - fredrik [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-674-1029856757-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Aug 20 08:19:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id IAA16476 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:19:20 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-674-1029856757-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2002 15:19:17 -0000 X-Sender: peterseyferth@mac.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 20 Aug 2002 15:19:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 53588 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2002 15:19:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2002 15:19:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpout.mac.com) (204.179.120.85) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2002 15:19:16 -0000 Received: from smtp-relay03.mac.com (smtp-relay03-en1 [10.13.10.222]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id g7KFJFg9012024 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtp-relay03.mac.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/1.0) with ESMTP id g7KFJFKN012832 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] ([217.228.222.208]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id H15EK200.AMI for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:19:14 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1309 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1029786131.244.58113.m12@yahoogroups.com> From: Peter Seyferth X-Yahoo-Profile: peterseyferth MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:17:44 +0200 Subject: [the-ekumen] The heyimas Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 700 > Hi all > > I saw you mentioning both architecture and the Valley of _Always Coming > Home_ and it reminded me of something I thought of when I read it. Did > anybody manage to visualize what the heyimas really looked like? With, what > was it, a pentagonal roof on a quadratic building, or if it was the other > way around. (Five and four - another allusion to the Five Houses or Earth > and the Four Houses of Sky). Could you even fit some type of double spiral > in there to make the sides meet somehow? > > I know some architects myself, I should ask them. > > heya heya hey heya > > - fredrik Heya Fredrik and all, In the 1985 edition of _Always Coming Home_ there is a drawing of the five heyimas of Sinshan on page 174. The roofs seem to be quadratic, with stairs on each edge, leading to the open top. Only the roofs are above the ground, the rest is under the ground. I don't know if there is a double spiral to link the roof and the rest of the heyimas. The Lodge Rejoing (used by the Black Adobe Lodge for dying rituals) seems to be built along a double spiral. It is described on page 84, and there is a picture on page 87. Peter ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-675-1030003236-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Aug 22 01:00:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id BAA02800 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 01:00:37 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-675-1030003236-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 08:00:36 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 22 Aug 2002 08:00:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 62996 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 08:00:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2002 08:00:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 08:00:35 -0000 Received: from [216.80.74.31] (216-80-74-66.d.enteract.com [216.80.74.66]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A502BA6C for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 03:00:34 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Dave Awl X-Yahoo-Profile: dayvoll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 03:00:25 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] TONIGHT: making of Lathe of Heaven film Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1177 Set your VCRs! I'm passing along info just shared with me by another Ekumen member (not sure if she wants to be named or not so I'll let her step forward with more info if she wants, but here are the basics): >I checked the A&E website (www.aande.com) and a search on the word "lathe" >came up with the following program, which is coming up almost immediately. > > Making of "Lathe of Heaven" > > Thursday, August 22 11:30 PM > Friday, August 23 3:30 AM > >No time zone given - probably this stands for both ET and PT. The new adaptation of "Lathe of Heaven" itself will be shown on A&E on September 8 at 8 p.m. ET & PT. There's a review of the new film here: http://www.genreonline.net/Lathe_Of_Heaven_A&E.html ..with some details I find extremely disturbing, but I'm going to try to reserve judgment until I see the thing. Dave -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Available Sept. 21 from Hope and Nonthings press... What the Sea Means: Poems, Stories & Monologues 1987-2002 by Dave Awl ---> Info: http://www.ocelotfactory.com/seameans ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-676-1030003703-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Aug 22 01:08:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id BAA06073 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 01:08:23 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-676-1030003703-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 08:08:23 -0000 X-Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 22 Aug 2002 08:08:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 86000 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 08:08:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2002 08:08:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grunt1.ihug.co.nz) (203.109.254.41) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 08:08:22 -0000 Received: from p94-nas11.akl.ihug.co.nz (hppav) [203.173.213.94] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17hn0t-0004G9-00; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:08:20 +1200 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal From: "Aquila" X-Yahoo-Profile: aquila1nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:03:36 +1200 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] TONIGHT: making of Lathe of Heaven film Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1178 It might be worth putting what country you are in when you make these announcements - it can be inferred from your use of timezones, but this is a fairly international list. Aquila "Going through the motions" > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Awl [mailto:dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com] > Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2002 8:00 p.m. > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [the-ekumen] TONIGHT: making of Lathe of Heaven film > > > Set your VCRs! I'm passing along info just shared with me by another > Ekumen member (not sure if she wants to be named or not so I'll let > her step forward with more info if she wants, but here are the > basics): > > >I checked the A&E website (www.aande.com) and a search on the > word "lathe" > >came up with the following program, which is coming up almost > immediately. > > > > Making of "Lathe of Heaven" > > > > Thursday, August 22 11:30 PM > > Friday, August 23 3:30 AM > > > >No time zone given - probably this stands for both ET and PT. > > The new adaptation of "Lathe of Heaven" itself will be shown on A&E > on September 8 at 8 > p.m. ET & PT. > > There's a review of the new film here: > http://www.genreonline.net/Lathe_Of_Heaven_A&E.html > > ..with some details I find extremely disturbing, but I'm going to try > to reserve judgment until I see the thing. > > Dave > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Available Sept. 21 from Hope and Nonthings press... > What the Sea Means: Poems, Stories & Monologues 1987-2002 > by Dave Awl > ---> Info: http://www.ocelotfactory.com/seameans > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-677-1030017339-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Aug 22 04:55:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.83]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id EAA11233 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 04:55:41 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-677-1030017339-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 11:55:39 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 22 Aug 2002 11:55:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 28941 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 11:55:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2002 11:55:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 11:55:38 -0000 Received: from [216.80.74.31] (216-80-74-168.d.enteract.com [216.80.74.168]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BC1863BB for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 06:55:37 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Dave Awl X-Yahoo-Profile: dayvoll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 06:55:28 -0500 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] TONIGHT: making of Lathe of Heaven film Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1193 >It might be worth putting what country you are in when you make these >announcements - it can be inferred from your use of timezones, but this is a >fairly international list. Good point. Usually I do think of things like that, but in this case I was rushing because of the short lead time on the info... Dave -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Available Sept. 21 from Hope and Nonthings press... What the Sea Means: Poems, Stories & Monologues 1987-2002 by Dave Awl ---> Info: http://www.ocelotfactory.com/seameans ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-678-1030064823-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Aug 22 18:07:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA21628 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:07:10 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-678-1030064823-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2002 01:07:03 -0000 X-Sender: anariska@smartt.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 23 Aug 2002 01:07:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 21620 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2002 01:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Aug 2002 01:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smartt.com) (209.52.5.253) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 01:07:02 -0000 Received: from anariska.smartt.com (burn-mn02025.smartt.com [209.52.12.75]) by smartt.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g7N1N6Q06487 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:23:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020822180824.008b9100@smartt.com> X-Sender: anariska@smartt.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1030061096.740.38339.m12@yahoogroups.com> From: Susan Armstrong X-Yahoo-Profile: anariska MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:08:24 -0700 Subject: time zones (Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 247) Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 >> > Making of "Lathe of Heaven" >> > >> > Thursday, August 22 11:30 PM >> > Friday, August 23 3:30 AM >> > >> >No time zone given - probably this stands for both ET and PT. The reference is to broadcasts in the North American Eastern and Pacific time zones. In Canada and the U.S. anyway. - Susan Armstrong (who sent the original email to Dave) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-679-1030499491-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Aug 27 18:51:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA31064 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 18:51:38 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-679-1030499491-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2002 01:51:31 -0000 X-Sender: leahrobinson11201@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 28 Aug 2002 01:51:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 4841 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2002 01:51:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2002 01:51:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web20202.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.226.57) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2002 01:51:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20020828015130.42346.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.141.24.214] by web20202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 18:51:30 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Leah Robinson X-Yahoo-Profile: leahrobinson11201 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 18:51:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] TONIGHT: making of Lathe of Heaven film Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 864 I saw the "Making of" when it was on in June. From what I saw, its going to be a Hollywood version, and not Ursula's vision. I can't say how good it's gonna be, have to wait, but if you looking for "The Lathe of Heaven" by Ursula K. LeGuin, then check out the first version, made 25 years ago with UKL as creative consultant. It's on DVD with commentary, Bill Moyers and UKL.. It's very good work. Dave Awl wrote:>It might be worth putting what country you are in when you make these >announcements - it can be inferred from your use of timezones, but this is a >fairly international list. Good point. Usually I do think of things like that, but in this case I was rushing because of the short lead time on the info... Dave -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Available Sept. 21 from Hope and Nonthings press... What the Sea Means: Poems, Stories & Monologues 1987-2002 by Dave Awl ---> Info: http://www.ocelotfactory.com/seameans To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-684-1030545606-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 07:40:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA06749 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 07:40:09 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-684-1030545606-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2002 14:40:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 18436 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2002 14:40:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2002 14:40:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.71) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2002 14:40:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: prospec@iol.ie Received: from [66.218.67.162] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2002 14:40:04 -0000 X-Sender: prospec@iol.ie X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 28 Aug 2002 09:39:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 17415 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2002 09:39:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2002 09:39:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.93) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2002 09:39:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.147] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2002 09:39:42 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "liam_mcm" X-Originating-IP: 193.203.142.169 X-Yahoo-Profile: liam_mcm X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 28 Aug 2002 14:40:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:39:40 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Desperately trying to find a LeGuin story Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 945 Hi, I'm trying to find the name and a source for what I think was an Ursula LeGuin short story that I read about ten years ago. The story was in the form of a fable, and told the tale of a life- form that bred by baking new members of their society in kilns. I remember the story as a critique of gender struggles. Can anyone tell me the name of this story, and where I might find it. Many thanks, liam_mcm. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-680-1030531904-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 03:51:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.77]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id DAA26126 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 03:51:46 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-680-1030531904-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2002 10:51:44 -0000 X-Sender: peterseyferth@mac.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 28 Aug 2002 10:51:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 84007 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2002 10:51:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2002 10:51:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpout.mac.com) (204.179.120.86) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2002 10:51:43 -0000 Received: from smtp-relay01.mac.com (smtp-relay01-en1 [10.13.10.224]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id g7SAphvs005795 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 03:51:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtp-relay01.mac.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/1.0) with ESMTP id g7SAphVw029357 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 03:51:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] ([217.228.212.203]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id H1JVI600.1O0 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 03:51:42 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1309 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1030522055.281.9171.m12@yahoogroups.com> From: Peter Seyferth X-Yahoo-Profile: peterseyferth MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:51:35 +0200 Subject: [the-ekumen] The Bones Of Earth Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 907 I found out that UKLs short story "The Bones Of Earth" is leading in the unofficial Hugo Poll (http://www.scifi.com/sfw/hugo/results.php3). But I do not know this story. Where can I find it? Thanks Peter ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-681-1030534361-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 04:32:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id EAA32113 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 04:32:46 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-681-1030534361-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2002 11:32:44 -0000 X-Sender: h.cav@troykatrans.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 28 Aug 2002 11:32:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 78889 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2002 11:32:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2002 11:32:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.intermedia.net) (206.40.48.152) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2002 11:32:43 -0000 Received: from hande (unverified [212.253.87.147]) by mail2.intermedia.net (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 04:32:43 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c24e86$5ffb8ae0$0600a8c0@hande> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Hande Cav" X-Yahoo-Profile: cav_h MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:30:51 +0300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Bones Of Earth Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 912 "The Bones Of Earth" is as I remember in "The Twelve Quarters of the Wind" -- Hande ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Seyferth" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 1:51 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] The Bones Of Earth > I found out that UKLs short story "The Bones Of Earth" is leading in the > unofficial Hugo Poll (http://www.scifi.com/sfw/hugo/results.php3). But I do > not know this story. Where can I find it? > > Thanks > Peter > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-682-1030542513-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 06:51:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id GAA26487 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 06:51:33 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-682-1030542513-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2002 13:48:33 -0000 X-Sender: mgoldfar@mobius.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 28 Aug 2002 13:48:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 52069 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2002 13:48:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2002 13:48:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.65) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2002 13:48:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.146] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2002 13:48:32 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000d01c24e86$5ffb8ae0$0600a8c0@hande> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "msg_from_ny" X-Originating-IP: 204.126.130.10 X-Yahoo-Profile: msg_from_ny MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:48:30 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: The Bones Of Earth Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 930 Isn't this story in last year's "Tales From Earthsea" collection? It's the one about how Ogion stops the earthquake, right? (Why would a story from the 30-year-old "Wind's Twelve Quarters" be in current Hugo award voting?) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-683-1030542583-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 06:49:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.81]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id GAA26190 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 06:49:46 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-683-1030542583-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2002 13:49:44 -0000 X-Sender: iwriddell@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 28 Aug 2002 13:49:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 42380 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2002 13:49:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2002 13:49:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.19.9) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2002 13:49:43 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 06:49:43 -0700 Received: from 66.168.62.169 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:49:42 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Aug 2002 13:49:43.0148 (UTC) FILETIME=[C3304AC0:01C24E99] From: "Ian W. Riddell" X-Originating-IP: [66.168.62.169] X-Yahoo-Profile: iwr77 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 08:49:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Bones Of Earth Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 928 >From: Peter Seyferth "The Bones of the Earth" is the third story in the :Tales from Earthsea: collection. widdy >Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: [the-ekumen] The Bones Of Earth >Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:51:35 +0200 > >I found out that UKLs short story "The Bones Of Earth" is leading in the >unofficial Hugo Poll (http://www.scifi.com/sfw/hugo/results.php3). But I do >not know this story. Where can I find it? > >Thanks >Peter > _________________________________________________________________ Join the worldâs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Receive Phone Calls and Faxes While You're Online! Emerson Switchboard eliminates the need for a second phone line. Order the Switchboard today for $39.95 + shipping and handling. http://us.click.yahoo.com/P2sPyA/o6kEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-685-1030578961-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 16:56:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA25595 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:56:07 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-685-1030578961-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2002 23:56:01 -0000 X-Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 28 Aug 2002 23:56:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 87840 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2002 23:55:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2002 23:55:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grunt2.ihug.co.nz) (203.109.254.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2002 23:55:58 -0000 Received: from p239-nas11.akl.ihug.co.nz (hppav) [203.173.213.239] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17kCfE-0005FX-00; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:55:56 +1200 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal From: "Aquila" X-Yahoo-Profile: aquila1nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:50:59 +1200 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Desperately trying to find a LeGuin story Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 117 Might it be "Along the River"? I've never read it, but the description I saw *might* fit it. Apparently printed in Omni Best Science Fiction Three Auth/Ed: Ellen Datlow Year: 1993 Aquila "Going through the motions" > -----Original Message----- > From: liam_mcm [mailto:prospec@iol.ie] > Sent: Wednesday, 28 August 2002 9:40 p.m. > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [the-ekumen] Desperately trying to find a LeGuin story > > > > Hi, > > I'm trying to find the name and a source for what I think was an > Ursula LeGuin short story that I read about ten years ago. > > The story was in the form of a fable, and told the tale of a life- > form that bred by baking new members of their society in kilns. I > remember the story as a critique of gender struggles. > > Can anyone tell me the name of this story, and where I might find it. > > Many thanks, > liam_mcm. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-687-1030814199-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Aug 31 10:16:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA06124 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 10:16:43 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-687-1030814199-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Aug 2002 17:16:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 8816 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2002 17:16:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2002 17:16:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.78) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2002 17:16:38 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jcowan@reutershealth.com Received: from [66.218.67.143] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Aug 2002 17:16:38 -0000 X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 31 Aug 2002 07:40:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 35235 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2002 07:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2002 07:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.151) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2002 07:40:18 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA15551 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:51:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200208310751.DAA15551@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:37:00 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 31 Aug 2002 17:16:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:37:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [the-ekumen] "The tadde was a miner" Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 557 I just found this group and this is my first post to it, but I've read the last few month's worth of posts. This is something that I noticed in _The Dispossessed_ back in 1974, when it had just come out, and have never actually got on record anywhere. (I've mentioned it to a few friends and UKL-lovers, and they've said, "Hmm, probably.") I have never had the nerve to actually write the author and ask her. I don't have the text handy, and I'm not 100% sure if it's Takver or another woman who says "The tadde [i.e. my father] was a miner" and goes on to explain that a few of the Urrasti miners who were on Anarres before the Settlement chose to stay and join it, keeping some traditions of their own. Immediately I read that, the words of the old union song came into my head: My father was a miner, And I'm a miner's son, And I'll stick with the union, Till every battle's won. Which side are you on? Which side are you on? (More recent versions make the second line "He's now in the air and sun". Such is the folk process.) Did UKL have this consciously in mind? She couldn't have not heard the song, surely. Or is it an echo, an enrichment that shows there's more in books than the author puts there. -- Her he asked if O'Hare Doctor tidings sent from far John Cowan coast and she with grameful sigh him answered that www.ccil.org/~cowan O'Hare Doctor in heaven was. Sad was the man that word www.reutershealth.com to hear that him so heavied in bowels ruthful. All jcowan@reutershealth.com she there told him, ruing death for friend so young, algate sore unwilling God's rightwiseness to withsay. _Ulysses_, "Oxen" ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-688-1030814238-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Aug 31 10:17:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.87]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA06257 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 10:17:22 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-688-1030814238-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Aug 2002 17:17:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 9872 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2002 17:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2002 17:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2002 17:17:17 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jcowan@reutershealth.com Received: from [66.218.67.136] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Aug 2002 17:17:17 -0000 X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 31 Aug 2002 07:41:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 75003 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2002 07:41:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2002 07:41:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.151) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2002 07:41:43 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA15558 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200208310752.DAA15558@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:38:25 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 31 Aug 2002 17:17:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: "The tadde was a miner" Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 558 Of course it's "My daddy was a miner" in the song. Hail Google. -- Knowledge studies others / Wisdom is self-known; John Cowan Muscle masters brothers / Self-mastery is bone; jcowan@reutershealth.com Content need never borrow / Ambition wanders blind; www.ccil.org/~cowan Vitality cleaves to the marrow / Leaving death behind. --Tao 33 (Bynner) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-686-1030797835-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Aug 31 05:43:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id FAA21189 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 05:43:57 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-686-1030797835-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Aug 2002 12:43:55 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 31 Aug 2002 12:43:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 64082 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2002 12:43:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2002 12:43:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.uk.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2002 12:43:53 -0000 Received: from du-023-0076.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.133.76] helo=Robins) by oracle.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #3) id 17l7bS-000NdG-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:43:50 +0100 Message-ID: <005a01c250ec$0bc29280$4c857ed4@Robins> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:43:02 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 236 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 538 OK comments on More than Human and how it compares with UKL's work. Hows this for starters? Some Similarities Both writers show great empathy for the loneliness of the different and the gifted. In More than Human we have Lone, Janie, Gerry and Hip. From UKL I can think immdeiately of Shevek from The Dispossessed and both Owen and Natalie in A Very Long Way from Anywhere Else and I am sure there are many more. Beautiful and imaginative use of language e.g. 'A dazzle of bird notes stiched through the green. Evelyn's eyes stung and wonder misted the wood. Something tensed in her lap. She looked down in time to see her hands attack one another and off came the long gloves.....' from More than Human. and, picking a UKL book at random from the shelves 'The sky broke open and a shining thing fell down and stood before us on the rocks, bigger than any house, though not as big as the ruins of the Before Time. My mother looked at me with a queer, vengeful smile....' from Solitude in The Birthday of the World collection. Respect for and understanding of science: both Sturgeon and Le Guin show they are scientifically literate and use scientific concepts intelligently and imaginitively not as a magic device. Some Differences Location: UKLs books are mostly set in fantasy worlds (or country in the case of Malafrena) and part of her gift is in the imagining of them, their geography, sociology, politics, religion. When she does write of her own country and time then she is not writing science fiction or fantasy. Sturgeon however, in this book (and The Dreaming Jewels at least) , starts with the time and place and society he knows (somewhat earlier than UKLs I think) and then adds a paranormal dimension - the other writer I chiefly remember who does this is Clifford Simak. But whoops! what about Lathe of Heaven? My argument is failing I think! Gender/sexism: I think you would probably know which is a woman and which a man, though it's not clear cut. Sturgeon's women are whole convincing characters, and who are treated with respect and empathy in his story. But it is a world where men are in the driving seat, and at the end all is resolved by Gerry and Hip talking together alone man to man even if it was Jeanie who made it happen. However I'm not sure this is a real difference. In her early books UKL has just the same male in the centre thing, e.g. Rocannon's World and the 1st Earthsea books. And this summer I came across a Sturgeon novel called Venus Plus X which is one long discussion of Gender politics (and has other UKL themes such as people who are both male and female). So once again my difference may be turning into similarity. So did anyone besides me and Judy have a chance to think about this? I know Judy did because she and I met when I was on holiday! and I haven't pinched her insights and hope she will share them here. Anyone else? I can probably dredge up a few more ideas if I work at it. Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robins- one of" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 236 > well I checked the amazon site and you can still buy things there, so I > suggest More than Human and aim to discuss from the end of August > how about it? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 236 > > > > I'm very interested in Hannah's idea about rereading Sturgeon and making > > comparisons with Le Guin. It seems like an intriguing way to go with this > > discussion group. But it will take me a while to get my hands on the book > (I > > live in the country in southern France and will have to order it by > > amazon.com) before I can start reading. Hannah, would you like to choose > one > > specific book or collection of short stories and set a date for the > > discussion? Judy > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-690-1031066085-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Sep 3 08:14:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.81]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id IAA10212 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:14:48 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-690-1031066085-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2002 15:14:45 -0000 X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 3 Sep 2002 15:14:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 87204 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2002 15:14:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2002 15:14:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.151) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2002 15:14:44 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA00747 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 11:25:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200209031525.LAA00747@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Tue, 3 Sep 2002 11:11:18 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1031066855.668.2.camel@hairy> from "amanda" at Sep 03, 2002 04:27:34 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 11:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] TONIGHT: making of Lathe of Heaven film Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 260 amanda scripsit: > I don't suppose that any of you on the other side of the pond has heard > anything about when 'Lathe of Heaven' on film might be available in the > UK? In amazon.com, only the US version is mentioned and amazon.co.uk has > nothing at all. I assume you mean on video, in which case it is the old version, which certainly is not Hollywoodized at all. You can order things from Amazon.com, but then of course you would have to have someone convert the NTSC video to PAL. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com To say that Bilbo's breath was taken away is no description at all. There are no words left to express his staggerment, since Men changed the language that they learned of elves in the days when all the world was wonderful. --The Hobbit ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-689-1031063302-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Sep 3 07:28:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA29995 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 07:28:26 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-689-1031063302-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2002 14:28:22 -0000 X-Sender: amanda@fiasco.freeuk.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 3 Sep 2002 14:28:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 95916 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2002 14:28:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2002 14:28:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk) (195.92.193.210) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2002 14:28:17 -0000 Received: from [195.92.168.141] (helo=tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk) by cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17mEfB-00040f-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 15:28:17 +0100 Received: from modem-3531.zebra.dialup.pol.co.uk ([81.76.157.203] helo=localhost.localdomain) by tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17mEfA-0005P0-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 15:28:17 +0100 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20020828015130.42346.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020828015130.42346.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Message-Id: <1031066855.668.2.camel@hairy> From: amanda MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: 03 Sep 2002 16:27:34 +0100 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] TONIGHT: making of Lathe of Heaven film Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 229 I don't suppose that any of you on the other side of the pond has heard anything about when 'Lathe of Heaven' on film might be available in the UK? In amazon.com, only the US version is mentioned and amazon.co.uk has nothing at all. I expect it will be "hollywood-ized" out of all recognition, but I'd like to be able to judge it for myself! Amanda ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Looking for a more powerful website? Try GeoCities for $8.95 per month. Register your domain name (http://your-name.com). More storage! No ads! http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info http://us.click.yahoo.com/aHOo4D/KJoEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-691-1031301243-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Sep 6 01:34:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id BAA19348 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:34:03 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-691-1031301243-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Sep 2002 08:34:03 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 6 Sep 2002 08:34:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 59469 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2002 08:34:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2002 08:34:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m10.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.165) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Sep 2002 08:34:01 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id r.172.e06c938 (4312) for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 04:33:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <172.e06c938.2aa9c274@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 10500 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 04:33:56 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 252 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dans un e-mail dat=E9 du 04/09/2002 16:24:41 Paris, Madrid (heure d'=E9t=E9= ),=20 the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com a =E9crit : > amanda scripsit: >=20 > > I don't suppose that any of you on the other side of the pond has heard > > anything about when 'Lathe of Heaven' on film might be available in the > > UK? In amazon.com, only the US version is mentioned and amazon.co.uk ha= s > > nothing at all. >=20 > I assume you mean on video, in which case it is the old version, which > certainly is not Hollywoodized at all. You can order things from=20 > Amazon.com, > but then of course you would have to have someone convert the NTSC > video to PAL. >=20 >=20 It's not always necessary for Europeans who have PAL or SECAM Vcrs to have= =20 the NTSC video converted, since vcrs that can read NTSC are easily found on= =20 the market. It's just a question of looking for them when you buy a new on= e.=20 =20 Hannah, whom I was able to meet this summer while she was on holiday, has=20 suggested comparing Theodore Sturgeon's More Than Human to works by Le Guin= .=20=20 What struck me was the way they both described a group of apparently=20 mismatched humans, including idiots and perverts, that, as a group, have=20 supernatural powers. Le Guin's Handarratta are very close to the family th= at=20 Sturgeon makes the center of his novel. I want to say more about his book,= =20 when I have more time, because there are several interesting angles, but ar= e=20 there others interested in pursuing the comparison? Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From sentto-2266408-692-1031342540-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Sep 6 13:02:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA01084 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:02:28 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-692-1031342540-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Sep 2002 20:02:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 8079 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2002 20:02:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2002 20:02:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.78) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Sep 2002 20:02:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cloudmap@yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.152] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Sep 2002 20:02:18 -0000 X-Sender: cloudmap@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 6 Sep 2002 19:28:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 72488 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2002 19:28:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2002 19:28:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Sep 2002 19:28:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.146] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Sep 2002 19:28:17 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "cloudmap" X-Originating-IP: 65.25.82.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: cloudmap X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 06 Sep 2002 20:02:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 19:28:17 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: TONIGHT: making of Lathe of Heaven film Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 Hello, I dislike spoilers but since I'm already familiar with this story I watched the "making of..." special a few weeks ago. It does appear that this new version won't be nearly as faithful to the book as the Bruce Davison movie was. Seeing some of the excerpts shown during the special reminded me a bit of the movie "Dark City" (not in look but in plot - and I thought DC was quite good actually). I'll be watching the A&E movie whatever the case and hoping for the best. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-693-1031384564-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Sep 7 00:42:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id AAA12327 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 00:42:45 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-693-1031384564-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Sep 2002 07:42:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 12399 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2002 07:42:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2002 07:42:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.92) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2002 07:42:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: rajiv_rawat@yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.142] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Sep 2002 07:42:43 -0000 X-Sender: rajiv_rawat@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 7 Sep 2002 05:28:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 40114 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2002 05:28:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2002 05:28:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2002 05:28:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.137] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Sep 2002 05:28:53 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "rajiv_rawat" X-Originating-IP: 130.63.75.220 X-Yahoo-Profile: rajiv_rawat X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 07 Sep 2002 07:42:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 05:28:51 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Earth's timeline in the Ekumen Universe Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 107 Hi friends, I'm new to the list -- just jumped on after finding it on the web. A couple of years ago I did a similar search of Leguin's works on the web, and found the two sites that Dave Awl mentioned in his introductory notes . I'm really pleased however to have found this one, as I think Leguin's works have been under appreciated over the years (has anyone ever mentioned Earthsea's influence on JK Rowling? She only jazzed it up, turned soul-searching melancholy into light children's banter, threw in some Encyclopedia Brown-style problem solving set and got Harry Potter! Brilliant, but not original). In fact, I used to have Shevek's speech to the insurrection on Urras pasted to my dorm room door in college. That said, there are many intiguing discussions one can have on Leguin's many books. Here's one: At the end of the Dispossessed, the Earth Ambassador mentioned what happened to our planet, before the Hainish came and saved the day. "We were once 9 billion" gives away the timeframe as the peak of human civilization on Earth before war, environmental destruction, and our social problems brought about catastrophe (which is happening now right down to our failure as a social species, inability to control our appetites, the warming, and bits of plastic that never decay). In the Telling, she mentions Vancouver (or New Vancouver) surviving well through the League of Known Worlds, the coming and departure of the Enemy, and the Ekumen. Pretty confused, but the anthropological research continued through each age. Who knows, maybe "Always Coming Home" fits Hain Cycle somehow. Anyways, any comments or thoughts would be most interesting! Take care, - Rajiv ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-694-1031393276-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Sep 7 03:07:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.84]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id DAA32183 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 03:07:57 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-694-1031393276-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Sep 2002 10:07:56 -0000 X-Sender: alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 7 Sep 2002 10:07:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 14709 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2002 10:07:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2002 10:07:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.90) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2002 10:07:53 -0000 Received: from alisonpage.demon.co.uk ([194.222.142.202] helo=pre-installedco) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17ncVL-000G2Z-0W for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 07 Sep 2002 11:07:52 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c25657$4688a920$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Alison Page" X-Yahoo-Profile: vilaphile MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 11:12:11 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Earth's timeline in the Ekumen Universe Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 120 Rajiv said - >In the Telling, she mentions Vancouver (or New Vancouver) >surviving well through the League of Known Worlds, the coming >and departure of the Enemy, and the Ekumen. Pretty confused, >but the anthropological research continued through each age. >Who knows, maybe "Always Coming Home" fits Hain Cycle >somehow. > >Anyways, any comments or thoughts would be most interesting! > Another story which intersects with both these timelines (or single timeline) is 'City of Illusion'. It is set during a period when earth is under domination by 'the Enemy', so it might link into the Hainish timeline as Rajiv mentions. However, stylistically it is very strongly linked to 'Always Coming Home' (in my opinion anyway). However it is interesting that the anti-technological condition represented (albeit ambiguously) as 'oppression' by an enemy in City of Illusion, is represented as the triumph of humanity in Always Coming Home. Two sides of the same coin. It could be that both stories are set in the same time frame. Or not. My feeling is that rather than intending them to be two stories set in the same future-historical period, the two books are two different authorial takes, one utopian and one dystopian, on the Taoist version of the ideal society, as described in the second to last chapter of the Tao Te Ching. I'm sure you are all familiar but I will quote it for convenience, 'Let there be a little country without many people Let them have tools that do the work of ten or a hundred and never use them Let them be mindful of death and disinclined to go on long journeys They have ships and carriages but no place to go They have armour and weapons but no parades Instead of writing they may use knotted cords They enjoy eating They take pleasure in clothes They are happy in their homes devoted to their customs The next country might be so close they could hear the dogs barking But they would never visit them.' As I typed this I realised that the verse is also a description of Hainish planetary society, for example in 'Four Ways of Forgiveness', so that ties all three 'timelines' together. Or not :-) Alison ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-695-1031588651-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 09:24:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA24347 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:24:34 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-695-1031588651-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2002 16:24:12 -0000 X-Sender: mgoldfar@mobius.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 9 Sep 2002 16:24:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 77065 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2002 16:24:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2002 16:24:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2002 16:24:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.130] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2002 16:24:10 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "msg_from_ny" X-Originating-IP: 204.126.130.10 X-Yahoo-Profile: msg_from_ny MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 16:24:09 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] "Lathe of Heaven" on A&E Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 501 I can't believe nobody else has begun a thread about this, now that it's aired... I was massively underwhelmed: the twenty-year-old PBS film with Bruce Davison and Kevin Conway is MUCH better. Despite access to better production design and special effects, this version didn't even dramatize George's dreams, and it didn't include the aliens. It seemed unfocused, with many of the book's messages lost in the process... The acting was much better in the old PBS film: in particular, Lisa Bonet proved (again!) that she CAN'T act, and I was wishing for somebody with the charm and presence of Margaret Avery. James Caan was okay as Dr. Haber, but Lukas Haas looked like he wished he somewhere else. Only the always-great David Straithairn came through okay, making the most of the tiny part of Manny by underplaying beautifully. Anyway, it's just another pointless remake. The old version remains the one to see. (Ursula must be very disappointed by this new production - I hope she at least got some royalty bucks out of it!) - MSG ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-696-1031589828-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 09:43:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA30858 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:43:51 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-696-1031589828-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2002 16:43:48 -0000 X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 9 Sep 2002 16:43:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 77040 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2002 16:43:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2002 16:43:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.151) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2002 16:43:47 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA26389 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200209091655.MAA26389@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:43:45 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: from "msg_from_ny" at Sep 09, 2002 04:24:09 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] "Lathe of Heaven" on A&E Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 510 msg_from_ny scripsit: > Anyway, it's just another pointless remake. The old version remains > the one to see. Agreed. > (Ursula must be very disappointed by this new production - I hope she > at least got some royalty bucks out of it!) - MSG The stories of U.K. Le Guin are not written by U.K. Le Guin, but by a Hollywood consortium of the same name. :-) -- Schlingt dreifach einen Kreis vom dies! || John Cowan Schliesst euer Aug vor heiliger Schau, || http://www.reutershealth.com Denn er genoss vom Honig-Tau, || http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Und trank die Milch vom Paradies. -- Coleridge (tr. Politzer) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Looking for a more powerful website? Try GeoCities for $8.95 per month. Register your domain name (http://your-name.com). More storage! No ads! http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info http://us.click.yahoo.com/aHOo4D/KJoEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-697-1031590290-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 09:51:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA01308 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:51:34 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-697-1031590290-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2002 16:51:31 -0000 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 9 Sep 2002 16:51:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 49900 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2002 16:51:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2002 16:51:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out011.verizon.net) (206.46.170.135) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2002 16:51:30 -0000 Received: from zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.93.108]) by out011.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20020909165129.YOJT17563.out011.verizon.net@zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 11:51:29 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020908205706.02ae8688@impop.bellatlantic.net> X-Sender: jdawley@impop.bellatlantic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 12:53:20 -0400 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: "Lathe of Heaven" on A&E Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 513 At 04:24 PM 9/9/2002 +0000, msg_from_ny wrote: >I can't believe nobody else has begun a thread about this, now that >it's aired... Last night I began a message, but found I was too tired to make it coherent. My feelings about the remake are similar to yours. The treatment of the effective dreams was lackluster. Often the only indication that reality had altered was a change of wardrobe for the characters. We never got any insight into what motivated Haber apart from greed, so the message about the dangers of changing the world, *even with the best of intentions*, was lost. It also suffered from what I consider two of the banes of current cinema/TV: 1) uninteresting dialogue that is spoken *very slowly* ... with ... long ... pauses ... between ... sentences and 2) omnipresent theme music whose function is to fill in gaps in the story. And you're right, Lisa Bonet was a terrible choice for the role of Heather Lelache. Heather is supposed to be fierce and quick -- she thinks of herself as a Black Widow -- not a languorous sex symbol. This was just a lazy effort. They didn't even attribute the phrase, "the lathe of heaven" correctly! How hard could that be? On the other hand, I took a certain cynical delight in the fact that one of the advertisers was Searle, makers of Ambien -- a sleep aid. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Looking for a more powerful website? Try GeoCities for $8.95 per month. Register your domain name (http://your-name.com). More storage! No ads! http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info http://us.click.yahoo.com/aHOo4D/KJoEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-699-1031590602-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 09:56:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA03090 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:56:47 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-699-1031590602-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2002 16:56:42 -0000 X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 9 Sep 2002 16:56:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 6129 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2002 16:56:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2002 16:56:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.151) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2002 16:56:37 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA26575 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 13:07:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200209091707.NAA26575@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:56:35 -0400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020908205706.02ae8688@impop.bellatlantic.net> from "Janice E. Dawley" at Sep 09, 2002 12:53:20 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:56:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: "Lathe of Heaven" on A&E Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 516 Janice E. Dawley scripsit: > It also suffered from what I consider two of the banes of current > cinema/TV: 1) uninteresting dialogue that is spoken *very slowly* ... with > ... long ... pauses ... between ... sentences Sometimes known as the William Shatner Effect. > and 2) omnipresent theme > music whose function is to fill in gaps in the story. And often drowns out the dialogue. I spent the whole movie fiddling with the remote, trying to get the volume acceptable. -- John Cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com www.ccil.org/~cowan www.reutershealth.com "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders." --Hal Abelson ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Looking for a more powerful website? Try GeoCities for $8.95 per month. Register your domain name (http://your-name.com). More storage! No ads! http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info http://us.click.yahoo.com/aHOo4D/KJoEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-698-1031590540-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 09:55:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA02727 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:55:44 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-698-1031590540-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2002 16:55:40 -0000 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 9 Sep 2002 16:55:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 56022 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2002 16:55:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2002 16:55:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out020.verizon.net) (206.46.170.176) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2002 16:55:40 -0000 Received: from zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.93.108]) by out020.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20020909165539.KUZW13148.out020.verizon.net@zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 11:55:39 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020909125504.00adbec0@impop.bellatlantic.net> X-Sender: jdawley@impop.bellatlantic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <172.e06c938.2aa9c274@aol.com> From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 12:57:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 252 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 515 At 04:33 AM 9/6/2002 -0400, judyldubois@aol.com wrote: >Hannah, whom I was able to meet this summer while she was on holiday, has >suggested comparing Theodore Sturgeon's More Than Human to works by Le Guin. >What struck me was the way they both described a group of apparently >mismatched humans, including idiots and perverts, that, as a group, have >supernatural powers. Le Guin's Handarratta are very close to the family that >Sturgeon makes the center of his novel. I want to say more about his book, >when I have more time, because there are several interesting angles, but are >there others interested in pursuing the comparison? It's been a very busy weekend, so I am late replying to this, but I want to let you know that I *always* enjoy your messages, Judy, and would be interested in your further thoughts about Sturgeon and Le Guin, even though I haven't yet read any Sturgeon. Please, do continue! ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Looking for a more powerful website? Try GeoCities for $8.95 per month. Register your domain name (http://your-name.com). More storage! No ads! http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info http://us.click.yahoo.com/aHOo4D/KJoEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-700-1031591943-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 10:19:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA11812 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:19:07 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-700-1031591943-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2002 17:19:03 -0000 X-Sender: dejla@ix.netcom.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 9 Sep 2002 17:19:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 45536 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2002 17:19:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2002 17:19:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2002 17:19:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.147] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2002 17:19:02 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "dejla" X-Originating-IP: 63.124.122.200 X-Yahoo-Profile: dejla MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 17:19:01 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: "Lathe of Heaven" on A&E Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 520 --- In the-ekumen@y..., "msg_from_ny" wrote: > I can't believe nobody else has begun a thread about this, now that > it's aired... > I was waiting for somebody else and trying to get my thoughts regarding the production straight. If I hadn't read the book or seen the original production, I might have been satisfied with this. With that caveat, I do have to say that I thought the sets in this, and the costuming, worked beautifully. And it was beautifully filmed. If I could have had this staging with the original script and some casting changes, I think I would have been almost completely satisfied. In the original, I remember as clearly as if it were the first time I'd seen it the incredible dream sequences when the plague is dreamed -- all those people around the table, falling silent, and the veils draped over them -- and the last dream, when George puts Haber's light out. I missed the dreams in this one. I also missed the whole sequence about the nuclear war that brackets the dreams -- wihtout that, it doesn't make any sense for George to suddenly snap and try to stop dreaming. And I missed the aliens. What we get is a story focusing mostly on the relationships and not the underlying theme. The conflict between active and passive, with all the Taoist elements, is crucial to the story, and we don't get that. I would say that the actors as casted work well visually. I don't know whether or not Lisa Bonet can act -- I don't I'm really qualified to judge that -- but I don't think that she had the brassiness and the intensity that Heather was supposed to have. Lukas Haas made an interesting George; his body language was in keeping with George's passivity and repression. It's very hard to get a character across who is so passive. It's the script, I think, that bothers me the most. They really did not give any evidence that Haber was using George. The end sequence, where Haber supplants George and the world falls apart, going back to April, is based on Haber's deliberate use of George's dreams. I think it makes a much weaker story. But then, I don't understand why any scriptwriter deviates that far from the book in the first place. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-701-1031592669-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 10:31:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA17170 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:31:13 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-701-1031592669-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2002 17:31:09 -0000 X-Sender: mccunem@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 9 Sep 2002 17:31:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 71034 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2002 17:31:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2002 17:31:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.236.36) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2002 17:31:08 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:31:08 -0700 To: References: <1031591727.185.44389.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Sep 2002 17:31:08.0659 (UTC) FILETIME=[AEED6430:01C25826] From: "Marc McCune" X-Originating-IP: [207.218.185.74] X-Yahoo-Profile: mccunem MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:31:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 255 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 526 Yes, I noticed this too. And upon noticing the music, I couldn't get my mind off of it. The soundtrack, in this production, is really obtrusive and distracting, IMHO. > 2) omnipresent theme > music whose function is to fill in gaps in the story. -Marc McCune ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-703-1031623326-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 19:02:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.89]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id TAA08497 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 19:02:13 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-703-1031623326-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Sep 2002 02:02:06 -0000 X-Sender: anariska@smartt.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 10 Sep 2002 02:02:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 3084 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2002 02:02:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2002 02:02:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smail-cal.shawcable.com) (24.64.63.13) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2002 02:02:04 -0000 Received: from umc06 ([24.78.44.237]) by smail-cal.shawcable.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.05.17.04.13.p6) with SMTP id <0H2600DDYNK11A@smail-cal.shawcable.com> for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:04:49 -0600 (MDT) To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <000601c2582a$fc935560$1f01a8c0@shaw> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <1031591727.185.44389.m12@yahoogroups.com> From: Susan Armstrong X-Yahoo-Profile: anariska MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 11:01:56 -0700 Subject: Be afraid... Be very afraid (Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 255) Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 643 I had someone visiting last night, so I taped "Lathe" - haven't watched it yet. Or rather, I have only seen a minute or two of it. I happened to glance at the show part way through, and this is the bit I saw: Haber's secretary is bringing him a cup of coffee. Haber utters the word "sex". This makes the secretary spill the coffee. That would've been corny in an 1890's music hall act. Then Haber comments (I couldn't believe my ears) on how the secretary's wardrobe "camouflages" her body, and somehow this leads to her having to explain to him who "Lady Godiva" was. All of this delivered at an excruciatingly glacial pace, to make sure none of us groundlings miss the marvellous humor of this stretch of scriptwriting and acting. I switched off the TV at this point. Someone PLEEEEEZE tell me that I just happened to see the worst part of the show and the rest was a cut above this level. - Susan (who was fortunate enough to see the excellent PBS version in 1980-or-whenever-it-was) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-706-1031705337-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Sep 10 17:49:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA10286 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:49:07 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-706-1031705337-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2002 00:48:57 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 11 Sep 2002 00:48:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 79499 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2002 00:48:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2002 00:48:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blount.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.226) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2002 00:48:55 -0000 Received: from 1cust14.tnt17.nashville.tn.da.uu.net ([67.216.88.14] helo=spl) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ovgL-0005gb-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:48:44 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c2592c$14e9e0a0$0e58d843@spl> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 19:39:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Earth's timeline in the Ekumen Universe Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 127 Thanks for your interesting iput. I was particularly glad that you stayed "on topic." Many of our colleagues go way afield, drawing paralells to topics such as stained-glass windows, architecture, etc. I don't want to sound snobbish, but there's just so much to discuss in her novels, their plots and characters, that I just get tired of plowing through posts that are way off topic, but I guess that's what informing each other is all about. Anyway -- welcome to "the clan!" & I look foward to reading your next e-mail. darius ----- Original Message ----- From: rajiv_rawat To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 12:28 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Earth's timeline in the Ekumen Universe Hi friends, I'm new to the list -- just jumped on after finding it on the web. A couple of years ago I did a similar search of Leguin's works on the web, and found the two sites that Dave Awl mentioned in his introductory notes . I'm really pleased however to have found this one, as I think Leguin's works have been under appreciated over the years (has anyone ever mentioned Earthsea's influence on JK Rowling? She only jazzed it up, turned soul-searching melancholy into light children's banter, threw in some Encyclopedia Brown-style problem solving set and got Harry Potter! Brilliant, but not original). In fact, I used to have Shevek's speech to the insurrection on Urras pasted to my dorm room door in college. That said, there are many intiguing discussions one can have on Leguin's many books. Here's one: At the end of the Dispossessed, the Earth Ambassador mentioned what happened to our planet, before the Hainish came and saved the day. "We were once 9 billion" gives away the timeframe as the peak of human civilization on Earth before war, environmental destruction, and our social problems brought about catastrophe (which is happening now right down to our failure as a social species, inability to control our appetites, the warming, and bits of plastic that never decay). In the Telling, she mentions Vancouver (or New Vancouver) surviving well through the League of Known Worlds, the coming and departure of the Enemy, and the Ekumen. Pretty confused, but the anthropological research continued through each age. Who knows, maybe "Always Coming Home" fits Hain Cycle somehow. Anyways, any comments or thoughts would be most interesting! Take care, - Rajiv Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-707-1031706598-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Sep 10 18:10:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA16509 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:10:06 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-707-1031706598-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2002 01:09:59 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 11 Sep 2002 01:09:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 47871 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2002 01:09:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2002 01:09:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blount.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.226) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2002 01:09:57 -0000 Received: from 1cust180.tnt17.nashville.tn.da.uu.net ([67.216.88.180] helo=spl) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ow0v-0003my-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:09:54 -0400 Message-ID: <002501c2592f$0d74f960$0e58d843@spl> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 19:39:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Earth's timeline in the Ekumen Universe Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 131 Thanks for your interesting iput. I was particularly glad that you stayed "on topic." Many of our colleagues go way afield, drawing paralells to topics such as stained-glass windows, architecture, etc. I don't want to sound snobbish, but there's just so much to discuss in her novels, their plots and characters, that I just get tired of plowing through posts that are way off topic, but I guess that's what informing each other is all about. Anyway -- welcome to "the clan!" & I look foward to reading your next e-mail. darius ----- Original Message ----- From: rajiv_rawat To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 12:28 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Earth's timeline in the Ekumen Universe Hi friends, I'm new to the list -- just jumped on after finding it on the web. A couple of years ago I did a similar search of Leguin's works on the web, and found the two sites that Dave Awl mentioned in his introductory notes . I'm really pleased however to have found this one, as I think Leguin's works have been under appreciated over the years (has anyone ever mentioned Earthsea's influence on JK Rowling? She only jazzed it up, turned soul-searching melancholy into light children's banter, threw in some Encyclopedia Brown-style problem solving set and got Harry Potter! Brilliant, but not original). In fact, I used to have Shevek's speech to the insurrection on Urras pasted to my dorm room door in college. That said, there are many intiguing discussions one can have on Leguin's many books. Here's one: At the end of the Dispossessed, the Earth Ambassador mentioned what happened to our planet, before the Hainish came and saved the day. "We were once 9 billion" gives away the timeframe as the peak of human civilization on Earth before war, environmental destruction, and our social problems brought about catastrophe (which is happening now right down to our failure as a social species, inability to control our appetites, the warming, and bits of plastic that never decay). In the Telling, she mentions Vancouver (or New Vancouver) surviving well through the League of Known Worlds, the coming and departure of the Enemy, and the Ekumen. Pretty confused, but the anthropological research continued through each age. Who knows, maybe "Always Coming Home" fits Hain Cycle somehow. Anyways, any comments or thoughts would be most interesting! Take care, - Rajiv Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-702-1031621009-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 18:23:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA26625 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 18:23:35 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-702-1031621009-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Sep 2002 01:23:29 -0000 X-Sender: leahrobinson11201@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 10 Sep 2002 01:23:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 77807 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2002 01:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2002 01:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web20209.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.226.64) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2002 01:23:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20020910012327.66031.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.141.25.128] by web20209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Sep 2002 18:23:27 PDT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020908205706.02ae8688@impop.bellatlantic.net> From: Leah Robinson X-Yahoo-Profile: leahrobinson11201 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 18:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: "Lathe of Heaven" on A&E Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 639 I loved the Ambien note. Very funny.. "Janice E. Dawley" wrote:At 04:24 PM 9/9/2002 +0000, msg_from_ny wrote: >I can't believe nobody else has begun a thread about this, now that >it's aired... Last night I began a message, but found I was too tired to make it coherent. My feelings about the remake are similar to yours. The treatment of the effective dreams was lackluster. Often the only indication that reality had altered was a change of wardrobe for the characters. We never got any insight into what motivated Haber apart from greed, so the message about the dangers of changing the world, *even with the best of intentions*, was lost. It also suffered from what I consider two of the banes of current cinema/TV: 1) uninteresting dialogue that is spoken *very slowly* ... with ... long ... pauses ... between ... sentences and 2) omnipresent theme music whose function is to fill in gaps in the story. And you're right, Lisa Bonet was a terrible choice for the role of Heather Lelache. Heather is supposed to be fierce and quick -- she thinks of herself as a Black Widow -- not a languorous sex symbol. This was just a lazy effort. They didn't even attribute the phrase, "the lathe of heaven" correctly! How hard could that be? On the other hand, I took a certain cynical delight in the fact that one of the advertisers was Searle, makers of Ambien -- a sleep aid. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-704-1031677059-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Sep 10 09:57:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA32700 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:57:43 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-704-1031677059-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Sep 2002 16:57:39 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 10 Sep 2002 16:57:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 52591 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2002 16:57:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2002 16:57:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2002 16:57:38 -0000 Received: from smtp1.Stanford.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8AGvbs04884 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sls-258c (sls-258c.Stanford.EDU [171.64.212.237]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8AGvaE04873 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.20020910095524.00a20540@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: fafyti MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:58:23 -0700 Subject: [the-ekumen] Atwood reviews Le Guin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 Having been off-list for a while, I may have missed mention of this ... Margaret Atwood reviews "The Birthday of the World" in the New York Review of Books, at http://www.nybooks.com/articles/15677 More a discussion of the nature of science fiction and of Le Guin's place in it than a review of the book, it's still a pretty good discussion. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-705-1031692680-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Sep 10 14:18:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA01111 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:18:05 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-705-1031692680-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Sep 2002 21:18:00 -0000 X-Sender: mr_bu2002@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 10 Sep 2002 21:18:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 22321 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2002 21:17:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2002 21:17:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2002 21:17:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.165] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Sep 2002 21:17:59 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Brian Cundieff" X-Originating-IP: 216.228.130.103 X-Yahoo-Profile: mr_bu2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:17:57 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] A&E.....A&E.....A&Zzzzzzzz.... Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 94 *sigh* I've been looking forward to the remake of "The Lathe of Heaven" ever since I found mention of it on the Internet Movie Database several months ago. Now I regret taping it over the old Simpsons episodes I had on that tape. ;-) Funny about the Ambien thing. I DID actually fall asleep watching the movie. The silver lining I guess is that the original version is available cheap at deepdiscountdvd.com. Hmm... Is this a failure of capitalism? PBS produced a far superior product without commercial support. -Brian* ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-708-1031706605-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Sep 10 18:10:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.89]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA16541 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:10:12 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-708-1031706605-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2002 01:10:05 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 11 Sep 2002 01:10:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 89067 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2002 01:10:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2002 01:10:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blount.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.226) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2002 01:10:04 -0000 Received: from 1cust180.tnt17.nashville.tn.da.uu.net ([67.216.88.180] helo=spl) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ow12-0003my-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:10:01 -0400 Message-ID: <002701c2592f$11a5aac0$0e58d843@spl> To: References: <000e01c25657$4688a920$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:52:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Earth's timeline in the Ekumen Universe Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 132 Very good analysis, Alison. I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, my bookstore has temporarily run out of her stuff, other than what I already have. I guess I need to explore another Le Guin novel, and that will have to wait. She's a very perceptive author, and always seeking new tangents Regards - Darius ----- Original Message ----- From: Alison Page To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 5:12 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Earth's timeline in the Ekumen Universe Rajiv said - >In the Telling, she mentions Vancouver (or New Vancouver) >surviving well through the League of Known Worlds, the coming >and departure of the Enemy, and the Ekumen. Pretty confused, >but the anthropological research continued through each age. >Who knows, maybe "Always Coming Home" fits Hain Cycle >somehow. > >Anyways, any comments or thoughts would be most interesting! > Another story which intersects with both these timelines (or single timeline) is 'City of Illusion'. It is set during a period when earth is under domination by 'the Enemy', so it might link into the Hainish timeline as Rajiv mentions. However, stylistically it is very strongly linked to 'Always Coming Home' (in my opinion anyway). However it is interesting that the anti-technological condition represented (albeit ambiguously) as 'oppression' by an enemy in City of Illusion, is represented as the triumph of humanity in Always Coming Home. Two sides of the same coin. It could be that both stories are set in the same time frame. Or not. My feeling is that rather than intending them to be two stories set in the same future-historical period, the two books are two different authorial takes, one utopian and one dystopian, on the Taoist version of the ideal society, as described in the second to last chapter of the Tao Te Ching. I'm sure you are all familiar but I will quote it for convenience, 'Let there be a little country without many people Let them have tools that do the work of ten or a hundred and never use them Let them be mindful of death and disinclined to go on long journeys They have ships and carriages but no place to go They have armour and weapons but no parades Instead of writing they may use knotted cords They enjoy eating They take pleasure in clothes They are happy in their homes devoted to their customs The next country might be so close they could hear the dogs barking But they would never visit them.' As I typed this I realised that the verse is also a description of Hainish planetary society, for example in 'Four Ways of Forgiveness', so that ties all three 'timelines' together. Or not :-) Alison Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT I'm a Woman Man seeking a Man Woman Enter city or ZIP Age: to Show only ads with photos To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-709-1031779658-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Sep 11 14:27:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.87]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA04681 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:27:43 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-709-1031779658-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2002 21:27:38 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 11 Sep 2002 21:27:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 18231 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2002 21:27:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2002 21:27:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.uk.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2002 21:27:37 -0000 Received: from du-005-0042.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.134.42] helo=Robins) by oracle.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #3) id 17pF1M-000AoZ-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 22:27:36 +0100 Message-ID: <001e01c259da$0df38180$2a867ed4@Robins> To: References: <4.1.20020910095524.00a20540@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 22:27:37 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Atwood reviews Le Guin Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 339 Brilliant - thanks for this. I loved it, especially ' The Ekumen series may be said-very broadly-to concern itself with the nature of human nature: How far can we stretch and still remain human? What is essential to our being, what is contingent? The Earthsea series is occupied-again, very broadly speaking-with the nature of reality and the necessity of mortality, and also with language in relation to its matrix. ' Atwood is one of the authors I enjoy almost as much as I enjoy LeGuin. There was also a lovely article of hers (Margaret Atwood's I mean) in The Guardian (UK daily newspaper famous for being somewhat left of centre and for making msiprints) last week about Virginia Woolf and how she now saw much more in To the Lighthouse than she had when she was 19 and first read it. I tend to read & reread novels rather than literary reviews but obviously I'm missing a lot. Perhaps now I'm 49 and not 19 I should try more of them Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "David S. Bratman" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 5:58 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Atwood reviews Le Guin > Having been off-list for a while, I may have missed mention of this ... > > Margaret Atwood reviews "The Birthday of the World" in the New York Review > of Books, at http://www.nybooks.com/articles/15677 > > More a discussion of the nature of science fiction and of Le Guin's place > in it than a review of the book, it's still a pretty good discussion. > > - David Bratman > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-710-1031862866-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Sep 12 13:35:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA10712 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 13:35:05 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-710-1031862866-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2002 20:34:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 53063 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2002 20:34:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2002 20:34:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.81) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2002 20:34:25 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: shevek@bigpond.com Received: from [66.218.67.132] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2002 20:34:25 -0000 X-Sender: shevek@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 12 Sep 2002 14:55:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 21228 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2002 14:55:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2002 14:55:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhub.datafast.net.au) (203.123.67.14) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2002 14:55:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 84141 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2002 14:55:38 -0000 Received: from adsl-1-070.melbourne.dft.com.au (HELO bigpond.com) (202.76.165.70) by mailhub.datafast.net.au with SMTP; 12 Sep 2002 14:55:38 -0000 Message-ID: <3D80AC01.2070401@bigpond.com> Organization: www.takver.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <1031680647.256.13881.m12@yahoogroups.com> From: Shevek X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 12 Sep 2002 20:34:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:00:17 +1000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 571 Hello to everyone on the list. I have just joined after finding the LeGuin website. Here's a brief intro about myself: I have been a fan since LeGuin was the Guest of Honour at the SF worldcon in Melbourne in 1975 - although I did not attend this event, there were a few in depth interviews with her in the Australian newspapers at the time. That is when I started reading and collecting her books, essays and stories. It hasn't been easy - every so often I would ask a bookstore to look up what Le Guin books were in print, to see if there were any new ones. The existence of specialist SF shops helped as well. It is much easier now with the Internet to keep up with what is in print, and even tracking down out of print titles. I have, for some 16 years, been after a copy, or a local screening, of the Lathe of Heaven (1980 prod). I even wote a letter to the PBS station in New York asking how I could get a copy, to no avail.With the copyright problems sorted out, at last I have ordered a copy of the Lathe of Heaven which I will be able to watch. Unfortunately the powers that be decided Australia should be grouped with South America for its DVD region. So VHS tape it has to be, ordered from the USA. At least my Video player (recently bought) can now play NTSC format as well as the PAL system which is the standard for Australia and UK. It sounds like the remake of Lathe of Heaven was really botched. That is quite sad. I have, over the years taken great inspiration from The Dispossessed in particular. Partly, because of my involvement in anarchist groups from the mid 1970's. Particularly inspiring was Le Guin's description of anarchism from the introduction to 'The Day before the Revolution' published in the anthology 'The Winds Twelve Quarters Vol2'. It is written by Le Guin 'In Memorial to Paul Goodman 1911-1972'. Goodman was a writer, critic, poet and anarchist intellectual during the postwar social conformity. He is perhaps an under-recognised voice of literary and social dissent in North America during those middle decades of the 20th century. An excerpt.... "Odonianism is anarchism. Not the bomb-in-the-pocket stuff, which is terrorism, whatever name it tries to dignify itself with, not the social-Darwinist economic 'libertarianism' of the far right; but anarchism, as prefigured in early Taoist thought, and expounded by Shelley and Kropotkin, Goldman and Goodman. Anarchism's principal target is the authoritarian State (capitalist or socialist); its principle moral-practical theme is cooperation (solidarity, mutual aid). It is the most idealistic, and to me the most interesting, of all political theories." This is as close a statement Le Guin has come to identifying with anarchism that I have found in her writings. But together with her activism as a person and as a writer, it is clear she understands the philosophy of anarchism and shares a close affinity. Much of her writing and wisdom derives from her long standing interest in Taoism. I have drawn inspiration from her version of 'Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu' (Shambhala Publications, 1997.) In the footnotes to the Tao Te Ching Le Guin uses 'anarchists' twice to identify the correlation between Taoism and Anarchism. Footnote to Chap 13 (pages 16-17): "Lao Tzu, a mystic, demystifies political power. Autocracy and oligarchy foster the beliefs that power is gained magically and retained by sacrifice, and that powerful people are genuinely superior to the powerless. Lao Tzu does not see political power as magic. He sees rightful power as earned and wrongful power as usurped. He does not see power as virtue, but as the result of virtue. The democracies are founded on that view. He sees sacrifice of self or others as a corruption of power, and power as available to anybody who follows the Way. This is a radically subversive attitude. No wonder anarchists and Taoists make good friends." Footnote to Chap 57 (pages 74-75): About Lao Tzu "...I don't think he is exactly anti-intellectual, but he considers most uses of the intellect to be pernicious, and all plans for improving things to be disastrous. Yet he's not a pessimist. No pessimist would say that people are able to look after themselves, be just, and prosper on their own. No anarchist can be a pessimist....." In this passage Le Guin is clearly identifying Lao Tzu as an anarchist forbear. In both passages there are strong similarities between how taoists and anarchists view power and act in the world. There are many more insightful comments by Ursula Le Guin throughout, and then there are the verses of the Tao Te Ching which Le Guin has presented poetically and very powerfully. I could talk about 'The Dispossessed' or a hundred other topics but they are perhaps future posts..... -- with solidarity Takver (after Takver from The Dispossessed) Radical Tradition, an anarchist and radical Australasian History Page http://www.takver.com/history/index.htm Visit Anarres Books - http://www.anarres.org.au ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-711-1031925652-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Sep 13 07:00:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA11038 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 07:00:55 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-711-1031925652-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Sep 2002 14:00:52 -0000 X-Sender: alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 13 Sep 2002 14:00:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 69566 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2002 14:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Sep 2002 14:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.78) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Sep 2002 14:00:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.181] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Sep 2002 14:00:51 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3D80AC01.2070401@bigpond.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "vilaphile" X-Originating-IP: 193.63.50.163 X-Yahoo-Profile: vilaphile MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 14:00:48 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 681 > In this passage Le Guin is clearly identifying Lao Tzu as an anarchist > forbear. In both passages there are strong similarities between how > taoists and anarchists view power and act in the world. I think my feelings are very much like yours in this respect. I also think that Ursula's writing style is consistent with her political and spiritual perspective. I like her article on writing on her web site, 'steering the craft': "Modernist manuals of writing often conflate story with conflict. This reductionism reflects a culture that inflates aggression and competition while cultivating ignorance of other behavioral options. No narrative of any complexity can be built on or reduced to a single element. Conflict is one kind of behavior. There are others, equally important in any human life, such as relating, finding, losing, bearing, discovering, parting, changing." Being in the UK I haven't seen the 'lathe of heaven' TV show that you were all discussing but perhaps the disappointment was partly because the script-writer was working to the 'conflict, struggle and resolution' paradigm that underlies modern TV and film drama? Alison ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-712-1031952712-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Sep 13 14:31:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA17082 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 14:31:54 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-712-1031952712-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Sep 2002 21:31:52 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 13 Sep 2002 21:31:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 91576 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2002 21:31:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Sep 2002 21:31:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scrabble.freeuk.net) (212.126.144.6) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Sep 2002 21:31:51 -0000 Received: from du-032-0061.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.136.61] helo=Robins) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 17py2X-000GGj-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 22:31:49 +0100 Message-ID: <005701c25b6c$fac7f840$3d887ed4@Robins> To: References: <1031680647.256.13881.m12@yahoogroups.com> <3D80AC01.2070401@bigpond.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 22:31:52 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 765 Hello Shevek what a lot of interesting comment. I certainly came to Tao through LeGuin, and really like what you quote about 'Lao Tzu does not see political power as magic. He sees > rightful power as earned and wrongful power as usurped. > He does not see power as virtue, but as the result of virtue. The > democracies are founded on that view. He sees sacrifice of self or > others as a corruption of power, and power as available to anybody who > follows the Way.' I think that this goes with my ideas about non directive management. ' ruling the country is like cooking a small fish' Hannah (aka on yahoo groups elsiepiddock - one of these days someone will get the reference) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shevek" To: Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 4:00 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism > Hello to everyone on the list. I have just joined after finding the > LeGuin website. > > Here's a brief intro about myself: > I have been a fan since LeGuin was the Guest of Honour at the SF > worldcon in Melbourne in 1975 - although I did not attend this event, > there were a few in depth interviews with her in the Australian > newspapers at the time. That is when I started reading and collecting > her books, essays and stories. It hasn't been easy - every so often I > would ask a bookstore to look up what Le Guin books were in print, to > see if there were any new ones. The existence of specialist SF shops > helped as well. It is much easier now with the Internet to keep up with > what is in print, and even tracking down out of print titles. > > I have, for some 16 years, been after a copy, or a local screening, of > the Lathe of Heaven (1980 prod). I even wote a letter to the PBS station > in New York asking how I could get a copy, to no avail.With the > copyright problems sorted out, at last I have ordered a copy of the > Lathe of Heaven which I will be able to watch. Unfortunately the powers > that be decided Australia should be grouped with South America for its > DVD region. So VHS tape it has to be, ordered from the USA. At least my > Video player (recently bought) can now play NTSC format as well as the > PAL system which is the standard for Australia and UK. > > It sounds like the remake of Lathe of Heaven was really botched. That is > quite sad. > > I have, over the years taken great inspiration from The Dispossessed in > particular. Partly, because of my involvement in anarchist groups from > the mid 1970's. Particularly inspiring was Le Guin's description of > anarchism from the introduction to 'The Day before the Revolution' > published in the anthology 'The Winds Twelve Quarters Vol2'. It is > written by Le Guin 'In Memorial to Paul Goodman 1911-1972'. Goodman was > a writer, critic, poet and anarchist intellectual during the postwar > social conformity. He is perhaps an under-recognised voice of literary > and social dissent in North America during those middle decades of the > 20th century. > > An excerpt.... > "Odonianism is anarchism. Not the bomb-in-the-pocket stuff, which is > terrorism, whatever name it tries to dignify itself with, not the > social-Darwinist economic 'libertarianism' of the far right; but > anarchism, as prefigured in early Taoist thought, and expounded by > Shelley and Kropotkin, Goldman and Goodman. Anarchism's principal > target is the authoritarian State (capitalist or socialist); its > principle moral-practical theme is cooperation (solidarity, mutual aid). > It is the most idealistic, and to me the most interesting, of all > political theories." > > This is as close a statement Le Guin has come to identifying with > anarchism that I have found in her writings. But together with her > activism as a person and as a writer, it is clear she understands the > philosophy of anarchism and shares a close affinity. > > Much of her writing and wisdom derives from her long standing interest > in Taoism. I have drawn inspiration from her version of 'Tao Te Ching by > Lao Tzu' (Shambhala Publications, 1997.) In the footnotes to the Tao Te > Ching Le Guin uses 'anarchists' twice to identify the correlation > between Taoism and Anarchism. > > Footnote to Chap 13 (pages 16-17): > "Lao Tzu, a mystic, demystifies political power. Autocracy and oligarchy > foster the beliefs that power is gained magically and retained by > sacrifice, and that powerful people are genuinely superior to the > powerless. Lao Tzu does not see political power as magic. He sees > rightful power as earned and wrongful power as usurped. > He does not see power as virtue, but as the result of virtue. The > democracies are founded on that view. He sees sacrifice of self or > others as a corruption of power, and power as available to anybody who > follows the Way. This is a radically subversive attitude. No wonder > anarchists and Taoists make good friends." > > Footnote to Chap 57 (pages 74-75): > About Lao Tzu "...I don't think he is exactly anti-intellectual, but he > considers most uses of the intellect to be pernicious, and all plans for > improving things to be disastrous. Yet he's not a pessimist. No > pessimist would say that people are able to look after themselves, be > just, and prosper on their own. No anarchist can be a pessimist....." > > In this passage Le Guin is clearly identifying Lao Tzu as an anarchist > forbear. In both passages there are strong similarities between how > taoists and anarchists view power and act in the world. There are many > more insightful comments by Ursula Le Guin throughout, and then there > are the verses of the Tao Te Ching which Le Guin has presented > poetically and very powerfully. > > I could talk about 'The Dispossessed' or a hundred other topics but they > are perhaps future posts..... > > -- > with solidarity > Takver (after Takver from The Dispossessed) > Radical Tradition, an anarchist and radical Australasian History Page > http://www.takver.com/history/index.htm > Visit Anarres Books - http://www.anarres.org.au > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-713-1031986774-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Sep 13 23:59:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id XAA02021 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:59:35 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-713-1031986774-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Sep 2002 06:59:34 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 14 Sep 2002 06:59:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 7585 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2002 06:59:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2002 06:59:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m05.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.8) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2002 06:59:33 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id r.b9.2698732e (4340) for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 02:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 10500 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 02:59:28 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 259 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 Thank you, Takver, for a very meaty, thought provoking posting. I too am fascinated by Le Guin's anarchism and the way she relates it to Taoism. And the people in the valley in Always Going Home seem to be living another form of Odonianism. In her discussions of The Dispossessed, she gives quite a list of authors, and anyone looking for a subject for a doctoral thesis could go quite a ways just following her reading list. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-714-1032031049-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Sep 14 12:17:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA04867 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 12:17:33 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-714-1032031049-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Sep 2002 19:17:29 -0000 X-Sender: iwriddell@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 14 Sep 2002 19:17:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 73043 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2002 19:17:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2002 19:17:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.19.20) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2002 19:17:27 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 12:17:27 -0700 Received: from 144.92.164.199 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 19:17:27 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2002 19:17:27.0960 (UTC) FILETIME=[5D5A3980:01C25C23] From: "Ian W. Riddell" X-Originating-IP: [144.92.164.199] X-Yahoo-Profile: iwr77 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:17:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 70 >From: "Robins- one of" >Hannah (aka on yahoo groups elsiepiddock - one of these days someone will >get the reference) She's the lead character in "Elsie Piddock Skips in Her Sleep" by Eleanor Farejon (which I will admit I've never read - but I will now!) widdy _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-715-1032041903-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Sep 14 15:18:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA12909 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:18:29 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-715-1032041903-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Sep 2002 22:18:24 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 14 Sep 2002 22:18:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 77683 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2002 22:18:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2002 22:18:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.uk.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2002 22:18:23 -0000 Received: from du-033-0053.claranet.co.uk ([195.8.88.53] helo=Robins) by oracle.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #3) id 17qLF7-000Nr8-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 23:18:22 +0100 Message-ID: <005a01c25c3c$a6d0f360$355808c3@Robins> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 23:18:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 80 Excellent - a favourite story of mine since I was small and my grandmother read it to me - a story which celebrates a girl thing and the defeat of the powerful by the humble - I knew it in a collection of stories, poems and plays by Eleanor Farjeon but it also comes in Martin Pippin in the Daisy Field ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian W. Riddell" To: Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism > >From: "Robins- one of" > > >Hannah (aka on yahoo groups elsiepiddock - one of these days someone will > >get the reference) > > She's the lead character in "Elsie Piddock Skips in Her Sleep" by Eleanor > Farejon (which I will admit I've never read - but I will now!) > > widdy > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Home Selling? 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-716-1032041980-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Sep 14 15:19:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA13100 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:19:46 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-716-1032041980-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Sep 2002 22:19:40 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 14 Sep 2002 22:19:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 733 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2002 22:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2002 22:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.uk.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2002 22:19:40 -0000 Received: from du-033-0053.claranet.co.uk ([195.8.88.53] helo=Robins) by oracle.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #3) id 17qLGM-000NuM-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 23:19:38 +0100 Message-ID: <006501c25c3c$d4d02880$355808c3@Robins> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 23:19:44 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] quotes Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 81 found this on the web tonight http://womenshistory.about.com/library/qu/blqulegu.htm mind you think it's a rather small and paltry collection [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-717-1032051319-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Sep 14 17:55:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA15122 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 17:55:26 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-717-1032051319-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 00:55:20 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 00:55:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 36892 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 00:55:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 00:55:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tisch.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.157) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 00:55:19 -0000 Received: from 1cust118.tnt17.nashville.tn.da.uu.net ([67.216.88.118] helo=spl) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17qNgx-0005pr-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 20:55:16 -0400 Message-ID: <003c01c25c51$a82fb380$3d58d843@spl> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 19:43:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 91 Once again, I'm still here, and enjoy your comments as always -- particularly your thoughts on Taoism and Anarchism. I love how ULG explores disparate realities, and makes up connections. A very imaginative writer -- as we all know. d thieme ----- Original Message ----- From: vilaphile To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 9:00 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism > In this passage Le Guin is clearly identifying Lao Tzu as an anarchist > forbear. In both passages there are strong similarities between how > taoists and anarchists view power and act in the world. I think my feelings are very much like yours in this respect. I also think that Ursula's writing style is consistent with her political and spiritual perspective. I like her article on writing on her web site, 'steering the craft': "Modernist manuals of writing often conflate story with conflict. This reductionism reflects a culture that inflates aggression and competition while cultivating ignorance of other behavioral options. No narrative of any complexity can be built on or reduced to a single element. Conflict is one kind of behavior. There are others, equally important in any human life, such as relating, finding, losing, bearing, discovering, parting, changing." Being in the UK I haven't seen the 'lathe of heaven' TV show that you were all discussing but perhaps the disappointment was partly because the script-writer was working to the 'conflict, struggle and resolution' paradigm that underlies modern TV and film drama? Alison Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Home Selling? 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-718-1032053482-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Sep 14 18:31:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA22058 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:31:28 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-718-1032053482-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 01:31:22 -0000 X-Sender: fredr@gci-net.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 01:31:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 44963 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 01:31:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 01:31:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gci-net.com) (216.183.68.100) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 01:31:21 -0000 Received: from [216.183.66.65] (HELO fredrunk) by gci-net.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 1208800 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:29:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20020914183110.008458c0@216.183.68.100> X-Sender: fredr@216.183.68.100 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Fred Runk X-Yahoo-Profile: fnrunk MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:31:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 259 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 93 At 02:59 AM 9/14/02 EDT, you wrote: >Thank you, Takver, for a very meaty, thought provoking posting. I too am >fascinated by Le Guin's anarchism and the way she relates it to Taoism. And >the people in the valley in Always Going Home seem to be living another form >of Odonianism. I've never seen that anarchistic flavor to Le Guin, especially in relation to Taoism or anywhere else. If it's there, then it's a serious misreading of Lao Tzu, who is not an anarchist by any means. The Tao Te Ching is chockful of advice for rulers. -=Fred=- Oh do not swat them... Unhappy flies forever Wringing their thin hands ` - Issa - email: fredr@gci-net.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-719-1032054312-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Sep 14 18:45:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA24896 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:45:19 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-719-1032054312-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 01:45:12 -0000 X-Sender: shevek@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 01:45:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 12617 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 01:45:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 01:45:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 01:45:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.151] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 01:45:11 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <006501c25c3c$d4d02880$355808c3@Robins> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "takver_oz" X-Originating-IP: 203.123.64.148 X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 01:45:11 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: quotes Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 94 --- In the-ekumen@y..., "Robins- one of" wrote: > found this on the web tonight http://womenshistory.about.com/library/qu/blqulegu.htm > mind you think it's a rather small and paltry collection > A small collection, but each one a gem! One of my favourite quotes is the last paragraph from this article: A NOTE ABOUT MALE ELITISM AND AUTHORITARIANISM IN SCIENCE FICTION by Ursula Le Guin * *Quote from More Women of Wonder who quoted S.F. Studies 7 Vol 2 Part 3 pp 208-209. Male elitism has run rampant in S. F. But is it only male elitism? Isn't the 'subjection of women' in S.F. merely a symptom of a whole which is authoritarian, power-worshipping and intensely parochial?. . . Well, how about the social Alien in S.F.? Howabout, in Marxist terms, 'the proletariat?' . . . Are they ever persons, in S.F.? No. They appear as vast anonymous masses . . . The only social change presented by most S.F. has been towards authoritarianism, the domination of ignorant masses by a powerful elite - sometimes presented as a warning but often quite complacently. Socialism is never considered as an alternative, - and democracy is quite forgotten. Military virtues are taken as ethical ones. Wealth is assumed to be a righteous goal and a personal virtue. Competitive free enterprise capitalism is the economic destiny of the entire Galaxy. In general, American S.F. has assumed a permanent hierarchy of superiors and inferiors, with rich, ambitious, aggressive males at the top, then a great gap, and then, at the bottom the poor, the uneducated, the faceless masses, and all the women . . . , It is a perfect baboon patriarchy, with the Alpha Male on top, being respectfully qroomed, from time to time, by his inferiors ... I would like to see the Baboon Ideal replaced by a little human idealism, and some serious consideration of such deeply radical, futuristic concepts as Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. And remember that about 53% of the Brotherhood of Man is the Sisterhood of Women. Of course there are many more women and a few men who now write some challenging stories, but they are still a minority. Takver ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-721-1032082989-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 02:43:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.92]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id CAA28151 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:43:10 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-721-1032082989-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 09:43:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 62109 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 09:43:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 09:43:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.71) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 09:43:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: dbratman@stanford.edu Received: from [66.218.67.181] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 09:43:08 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 02:34:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 45517 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 02:34:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 02:34:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.123) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 02:34:35 -0000 Received: from dialup-209.245.128.222.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.245.128.222] helo=computer) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17qPF5-0007jM-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 19:34:35 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20020914193044.0094c9e0@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020914183110.008458c0@216.183.68.100> References: From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 15 Sep 2002 09:43:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 19:32:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 259 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 108 At 06:31 PM 9/14/2002 , Fred wrote: >I've never seen that anarchistic flavor to Le Guin, especially in relation >to Taoism or anywhere else. If it's there, then it's a serious misreading >of Lao Tzu, who is not an anarchist by any means. The Tao Te Ching is >chockful of advice for rulers. These last statements are not at all contradictory. Lao Tzu is large, he contains multitudes. Taoism, the religion as it has developed, is a far more serious misreading of Lao Tzu than anything Le Guin could offer. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-722-1032083004-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 02:43:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.91]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id CAA28211 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:43:25 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-722-1032083004-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 09:43:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 31880 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 09:43:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 09:43:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 09:43:23 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: dbratman@stanford.edu Received: from [66.218.67.177] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 09:43:23 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 02:34:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 53858 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 02:34:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 02:34:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.123) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 02:34:40 -0000 Received: from dialup-209.245.128.222.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.245.128.222] helo=computer) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17qPF9-00000e-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 19:34:40 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20020914192319.009d2ee0@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <006501c25c3c$d4d02880$355808c3@Robins> From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 15 Sep 2002 09:43:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 19:32:32 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: quotes Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 109 Indeed, not enough has changed. Attend an average science-fiction convention these days, and you will find that proponents of what Le Guin calls the "Baboon Ideal" - they usually call themselves "libertarians" - are present in large and well-organized squadrons, who have nevertheless convinced themselves that they are a beleagured and persecuted minority. I no longer attend panels at general SF cons discussing politics or economics in any form, because of the certainty that the discussion will be completely dominated by Alpha Male Baboons. - David Bratman At 06:45 PM 9/14/2002 , Takver wrote: >--- In the-ekumen@y..., "Robins- one of" wrote: > > found this on the web tonight >http://womenshistory.about.com/library/qu/blqulegu.htm > > mind you think it's a rather small and paltry collection > > >A small collection, but each one a gem! >One of my favourite quotes is the last paragraph from this article: > >A NOTE ABOUT MALE ELITISM AND AUTHORITARIANISM IN SCIENCE FICTION by >Ursula Le Guin * > >*Quote from More Women of Wonder who quoted S.F. >Studies 7 Vol 2 Part 3 pp 208-209. > >Male elitism has run rampant in S. F. But is it only male >elitism? Isn't the 'subjection of women' in S.F. merely a symptom of >a whole which is authoritarian, power-worshipping and intensely >parochial?. . . > >Well, how about the social Alien in S.F.? Howabout, in Marxist >terms, 'the proletariat?' . . . Are they ever persons, in S.F.? No. >They appear as vast anonymous masses . . . The only social change >presented by most S.F. has been towards authoritarianism, the >domination of ignorant masses by a powerful elite - sometimes >presented as a warning but often quite complacently. Socialism is >never considered as an alternative, - and democracy is quite >forgotten. Military virtues are taken as ethical ones. Wealth is >assumed to be a righteous goal and a personal virtue. Competitive >free enterprise capitalism is the economic destiny of the entire >Galaxy. In general, American S.F. has assumed a permanent hierarchy >of superiors and inferiors, with rich, ambitious, aggressive males at >the top, then a great gap, and then, at the bottom the poor, the >uneducated, the faceless masses, and all the women . . . , It is a >perfect baboon patriarchy, with the Alpha Male on top, being >respectfully qroomed, from time to time, by his inferiors ... > >I would like to see the Baboon Ideal replaced by a little human >idealism, and some serious consideration of such deeply radical, >futuristic concepts as Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. And remember >that about 53% of the Brotherhood of Man is the Sisterhood of >Women. > >Of course there are many more women and a few men who now write some >challenging stories, but they are still a minority. > >Takver ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-720-1032057928-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Sep 14 19:45:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id TAA02976 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 19:45:35 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-720-1032057928-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 02:45:28 -0000 X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 02:45:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 30748 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 02:45:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 02:45:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.151) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 02:45:27 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA25345 for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:56:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200209150256.WAA25345@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:45:26 +4400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020914183110.008458c0@216.183.68.100> from "Fred Runk" at Sep 14, 2002 06:31:10 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 259 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 95 Fred Runk scripsit: > I've never seen that anarchistic flavor to Le Guin, especially in relation > to Taoism or anywhere else. If it's there, then it's a serious misreading > of Lao Tzu, who is not an anarchist by any means. The Tao Te Ching is > chockful of advice for rulers. Sure, that's his literary convention. But what advice it is! "Do only what you absolutely must do, and can do in no other way." (Okay, okay, that's Estraven, actually.) How many rulers would actually take such advice? And all that stuff about how it's the loser who really wins? Does that sound like convincing manual-for-princes material? -- John Cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com www.ccil.org/~cowan www.reutershealth.com "In the sciences, we are now uniquely privileged to sit side by side with the giants on whose shoulders we stand." --Gerald Holton ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-723-1032087143-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 03:52:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id DAA02695 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 03:52:25 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-723-1032087143-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 10:52:23 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 10:52:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 77051 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 10:52:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 10:52:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.uk.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 10:52:22 -0000 Received: from du-033-0097.claranet.co.uk ([195.8.88.97] helo=Robins) by oracle.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #3) id 17qX0m-000DuX-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 11:52:21 +0100 Message-ID: <005c01c25ca5$fbfb39e0$615808c3@Robins> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 11:52:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: quotes Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 112 oh yes I agree they are all really fine and includes one of my all time favourites - I'd just like to see more Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "takver_oz" To: Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 2:45 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: quotes > --- In the-ekumen@y..., "Robins- one of" wrote: > > found this on the web tonight > http://womenshistory.about.com/library/qu/blqulegu.htm > > mind you think it's a rather small and paltry collection > > > A small collection, but each one a gem! > One of my favourite quotes is the last paragraph from this article: > > A NOTE ABOUT MALE ELITISM AND AUTHORITARIANISM IN SCIENCE FICTION by > Ursula Le Guin * > > *Quote from More Women of Wonder who quoted S.F. > Studies 7 Vol 2 Part 3 pp 208-209. > > Male elitism has run rampant in S. F. But is it only male > elitism? Isn't the 'subjection of women' in S.F. merely a symptom of > a whole which is authoritarian, power-worshipping and intensely > parochial?. . . > > Well, how about the social Alien in S.F.? Howabout, in Marxist > terms, 'the proletariat?' . . . Are they ever persons, in S.F.? No. > They appear as vast anonymous masses . . . The only social change > presented by most S.F. has been towards authoritarianism, the > domination of ignorant masses by a powerful elite - sometimes > presented as a warning but often quite complacently. Socialism is > never considered as an alternative, - and democracy is quite > forgotten. Military virtues are taken as ethical ones. Wealth is > assumed to be a righteous goal and a personal virtue. Competitive > free enterprise capitalism is the economic destiny of the entire > Galaxy. In general, American S.F. has assumed a permanent hierarchy > of superiors and inferiors, with rich, ambitious, aggressive males at > the top, then a great gap, and then, at the bottom the poor, the > uneducated, the faceless masses, and all the women . . . , It is a > perfect baboon patriarchy, with the Alpha Male on top, being > respectfully qroomed, from time to time, by his inferiors ... > > I would like to see the Baboon Ideal replaced by a little human > idealism, and some serious consideration of such deeply radical, > futuristic concepts as Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. And remember > that about 53% of the Brotherhood of Man is the Sisterhood of > Women. > > Of course there are many more women and a few men who now write some > challenging stories, but they are still a minority. > > Takver > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-724-1032090601-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 04:50:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.87]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id EAA12322 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:50:03 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-724-1032090601-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 11:50:01 -0000 X-Sender: peterseyferth@mac.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 11:50:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 83837 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 11:49:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 11:49:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpout.mac.com) (204.179.120.89) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 11:49:59 -0000 Received: from smtp-relay02.mac.com (smtp-relay02-en1 [10.13.10.225]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id g8FBnxdM018355 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtp-relay02.mac.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/1.0) with ESMTP id g8FBnxZH029366 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] ([217.228.218.96]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id H2HA7A00.G3B for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:49:58 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.0.2006 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1032036221.263.14010.m12@yahoogroups.com> From: Peter Seyferth X-Yahoo-Profile: peterseyferth MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 13:49:54 +0200 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 113 Am 14.09.2002 22:43 Uhr schrieb "the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com" unter : > the people in the valley in Always Going Home seem to be living another form > of Odonianism. In her discussions of The Dispossessed, she gives quite a > list of authors, and anyone looking for a subject for a doctoral thesis could > go quite a ways just following her reading list. Judy Where can I find these discussions and the list you mentioned? At the time I am collecting material for a dissertation about utopia in UKLs science fiction--every hint for more material is welcome. Peter ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-725-1032103290-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 08:21:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.99]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id IAA12134 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 08:21:33 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-725-1032103290-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 15:21:30 -0000 X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 15:21:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 13739 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 15:21:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 15:21:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.terracom.net) (208.170.71.129) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 15:21:29 -0000 Received: from [208.170.95.223] (3C2-223.terracom.net [208.170.95.223]) by smtp.terracom.net (8.9.1a/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09813 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 15:23:50 GMT X-Sender: dsalo@pop.softhome.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: David Salo X-Yahoo-Profile: iiipitaka MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:12:49 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: quotes Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 122 >In general, American S.F. has assumed a permanent hierarchy >of superiors and inferiors, with rich, ambitious, aggressive males at >the top, then a great gap, and then, at the bottom the poor, the >uneducated, the faceless masses, and all the women . . . , It is a >perfect baboon patriarchy, with the Alpha Male on top, being >respectfully qroomed, from time to time, by his inferiors ... Maybe I don't read enough science fiction that's *not* written by women these days, but is the field *today* really as full of Heinlein-clones as this quote suggests? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-726-1032103831-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 08:30:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id IAA14247 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 08:30:34 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-726-1032103831-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 15:30:31 -0000 X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 15:30:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 60846 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 15:30:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 15:30:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.terracom.net) (208.170.71.129) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 15:30:30 -0000 Received: from [208.170.95.223] (3C2-223.terracom.net [208.170.95.223]) by smtp.terracom.net (8.9.1a/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22568 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 15:32:51 GMT X-Sender: dsalo@pop.softhome.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020914183110.008458c0@216.183.68.100> References: <3.0.5.32.20020914183110.008458c0@216.183.68.100> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: David Salo X-Yahoo-Profile: iiipitaka MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:20:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 259 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 123 >I've never seen that anarchistic flavor to Le Guin, especially in relation >to Taoism or anywhere else. If it's there, then it's a serious misreading >of Lao Tzu, who is not an anarchist by any means. The Tao Te Ching is >chockful of advice for rulers. I doubt that Lao-tzu is strictly anarchistic in the 20th-century political sense, but the format of "advice to rulers" is just an imitation, or a satire, of the standard early Chinese philosophical text, which at least nominally aimed at converting the ruler of a state to a particular pattern of behavior; like Machiavelli's _Prince_, or Hobbes' _Leviathan_. The Confucian texts are the best known of these, but not the only ones. It's not so clear to me that the advice in Lao-tzu is intended in the same way. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-727-1032103833-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 08:30:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id IAA14261 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 08:30:36 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-727-1032103833-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 15:30:33 -0000 X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 15:30:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 31341 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 15:30:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 15:30:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.terracom.net) (208.170.71.129) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 15:30:32 -0000 Received: from [208.170.95.223] (3C2-223.terracom.net [208.170.95.223]) by smtp.terracom.net (8.9.1a/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25074 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 15:32:53 GMT X-Sender: dsalo@pop.softhome.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020914193044.0094c9e0@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> References: <4.2.0.58.20020914193044.0094c9e0@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: David Salo X-Yahoo-Profile: iiipitaka MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:28:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 259 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 124 >Lao Tzu is large, he contains multitudes. Taoism, the religion as it has >developed, is a far more serious misreading of Lao Tzu than anything Le >Guin could offer. > >- David Bratman I take _The Telling_ and _The Finder_ to be comments, from different points of view, on the relationship of "religious Taoism" (which includes a lot of what Sutty would call H-P) to its philosophical counterpart. Gelluk's search for a mercury-based elixir is directly based on Taoist alchemy. A few Chinese emperors are thought to have died from mercury poisoning, after ingesting pills prescribed to them by their Taoist "wizards"! Nonetheless, it is always difficult, when standing outside the time and culture that produced a certain text (like the Lao-tzu) to be very confident that one's own reading is *more* apt than one produced by people living closer to the time, speaking the same language, and sharing many cultural presuppositions. There is always the danger of distilling the original text so as to extract *only* those elements that seem relevant to us, and dismissing the rest as dross. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-729-1032112774-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 10:59:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA11894 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:59:39 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-729-1032112774-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 17:59:34 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 17:59:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 39409 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 17:59:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 17:59:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 17:59:34 -0000 Received: from dialup-209.247.142.65.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.247.142.65] helo=computer) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17qdgD-0004O5-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:59:33 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20020915101609.009d6b20@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:47:35 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: quotes Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 134 At 08:12 AM 9/15/2002 , David Salo wrote: > >In general, American S.F. has assumed a permanent hierarchy > >of superiors and inferiors, with rich, ambitious, aggressive males at > >the top, then a great gap, and then, at the bottom the poor, the > >uneducated, the faceless masses, and all the women . . . , It is a > >perfect baboon patriarchy, with the Alpha Male on top, being > >respectfully qroomed, from time to time, by his inferiors ... > > Maybe I don't read enough science fiction that's *not* written by >women these days, but is the field *today* really as full of >Heinlein-clones as this quote suggests? Science fiction, like Lao Tzu, is large and contains multitudes. There's enough of other kinds so that one can avoid the Heinlein-clones, but they are certainly legion and, as far as I can tell, more numerous and vehement than ever. I have to judge more by behavior at conventions, and from reviews and polemics, as I try to avoid reading SF of that sort myself, but such well-known authors as Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, Orson Scott Card, Spider Robinson, Vernor Vinge, Greg Bear, and the late Poul Anderson (all men, note) fall at least part-way into that category. Authors of less fame (at least outside of libertarian circles) are purer examples of the form: the best example I can testify to from personal experience of reading him is one Michael F. Flynn, a writer (and sfnal pundit) of supreme assininity: he once wrote a novel postulating that Earth would be plunged into an ice age through attempts to control global warming. Which wouldn't be an unreasonable notion for fiction if he hadn't spent the whole book castigating the anti-global-warming people for stupidity. There is a Libertarian Futurist Society that gives awards for fiction promoting its viewpoint. You will find little overlap with the Tiptree Awards, though they did once give their Hall of Fame Award to Le Guin for _The Dispossessed_ - evidently they missed the fact that neither Le Guin nor Shevek is quite so enamored of the Anarresti government as they themselves were. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-728-1032112766-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 10:59:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA11860 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:59:30 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-728-1032112766-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 17:59:26 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 17:59:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 39208 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 17:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 17:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 17:59:25 -0000 Received: from dialup-209.247.142.65.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.247.142.65] helo=computer) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17qdg4-0004F8-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:59:25 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20020915104741.009d5a40@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20020914193044.0094c9e0@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> <4.2.0.58.20020914193044.0094c9e0@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:57:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Taoism Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 132 At 08:28 AM 9/15/2002 , David Salo wrote: > Nonetheless, it is always difficult, when standing outside the >time and culture that produced a certain text (like the Lao-tzu) to >be very confident that one's own reading is *more* apt than one >produced by people living closer to the time, speaking the same >language, and sharing many cultural presuppositions. There is always >the danger of distilling the original text so as to extract *only* >those elements that seem relevant to us, and dismissing the rest as >dross. If so, Le Guin commits this error, for I believe it was in her commentary to her translation of the Tao that I became aware of the extreme disconnection between the Tao, the book, and Taoism, the religion. I learned more from the book by Holmes Welch on the subject, which Le Guin recommends. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-730-1032124407-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 14:13:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA25951 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:13:33 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-730-1032124407-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 21:13:28 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 21:13:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 40591 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 21:13:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 21:13:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.uk.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 21:13:25 -0000 Received: from du-023-0200.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.133.200] helo=Robins) by oracle.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #3) id 17qghm-0001HO-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:13:23 +0100 Message-ID: <002d01c25cfc$b97287c0$c8857ed4@Robins> To: References: <4.2.0.58.20020915101609.009d6b20@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:13:22 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: quotes Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 156 what do you mean Anarresti government? there isn't supposed to be one just divlab and requesting postings - it was the move away from anarchy towards a quasi government Shevek disliked, he 'held fast to the noble thing' in terms of the Odonian concept and I felt UKL loved it too - although her books celebrate a wide range of the ways people can live together, I always liked the bit in The Dispossessed when Shevek is on Urras and finds it not as bad as he has been taught (this is before he makes it to the slums at the end of course) 'He had been taught as a child that Urras was a festering mass of inequity, iniquity and waste. But all the people he met, and all the people he saw, in the smallest country village, were well dressed, well fed and, contrary to his expectations, industrious. They did not stand about waiting to be ordered to do things. Just like Anarresti, they were simply busy getting things done. It puzzled him. He had assumed that if you removed a human being's natural incentive to work - his initiative, his spontaneous creatvie energy - and replaced it with external motivation and coercion, he would become a lazy and careless worker. But no careless workers kept these lovely farmlands, or made the superb cars and comfortable trains. The lure and compulsion of profit was evidently a much more effective replacement of the natural initiative than he had been led to believe.' I always thought this a neat parody of the statements made by those who believe in market forces and nothing but market forces. Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "David S. Bratman" To: Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: quotes > At 08:12 AM 9/15/2002 , David Salo wrote: > > >In general, American S.F. has assumed a permanent hierarchy > > >of superiors and inferiors, with rich, ambitious, aggressive males at > > >the top, then a great gap, and then, at the bottom the poor, the > > >uneducated, the faceless masses, and all the women . . . , It is a > > >perfect baboon patriarchy, with the Alpha Male on top, being > > >respectfully qroomed, from time to time, by his inferiors ... > > > > Maybe I don't read enough science fiction that's *not* written by > >women these days, but is the field *today* really as full of > >Heinlein-clones as this quote suggests? > > Science fiction, like Lao Tzu, is large and contains multitudes. There's > enough of other kinds so that one can avoid the Heinlein-clones, but they > are certainly legion and, as far as I can tell, more numerous and vehement > than ever. I have to judge more by behavior at conventions, and from > reviews and polemics, as I try to avoid reading SF of that sort myself, but > such well-known authors as Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, Orson Scott Card, > Spider Robinson, Vernor Vinge, Greg Bear, and the late Poul Anderson (all > men, note) fall at least part-way into that category. Authors of less fame > (at least outside of libertarian circles) are purer examples of the form: > the best example I can testify to from personal experience of reading him > is one Michael F. Flynn, a writer (and sfnal pundit) of supreme assininity: > he once wrote a novel postulating that Earth would be plunged into an ice > age through attempts to control global warming. Which wouldn't be an > unreasonable notion for fiction if he hadn't spent the whole book > castigating the anti-global-warming people for stupidity. > > There is a Libertarian Futurist Society that gives awards for fiction > promoting its viewpoint. You will find little overlap with the Tiptree > Awards, though they did once give their Hall of Fame Award to Le Guin for > _The Dispossessed_ - evidently they missed the fact that neither Le Guin > nor Shevek is quite so enamored of the Anarresti government as they > themselves were. > > - David Bratman > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Looking for a more powerful website? Try GeoCities for $8.95 per month. Register your domain name (http://your-name.com). More storage! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-731-1032132875-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 16:34:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA26619 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:34:41 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-731-1032132875-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2002 23:34:35 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 15 Sep 2002 23:34:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 88807 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 23:34:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2002 23:34:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.232) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 23:34:34 -0000 Received: from dialup-209.245.134.223.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.245.134.223] helo=computer) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17qiuP-0000QV-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:34:34 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20020915163118.00988860@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <002d01c25cfc$b97287c0$c8857ed4@Robins> References: <4.2.0.58.20020915101609.009d6b20@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:32:14 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: quotes Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 167 At 02:13 PM 9/15/2002 , Hannah wrote: >what do you mean Anarresti government? there isn't supposed to be one Precisely. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-732-1032137067-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 17:44:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.73]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA09320 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 17:44:34 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-732-1032137067-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2002 00:44:28 -0000 X-Sender: roddy.graham@virgin.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 16 Sep 2002 00:44:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 34304 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2002 00:44:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2002 00:44:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blueyonder.co.uk) (195.188.53.98) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2002 00:44:27 -0000 Received: from pcow058m.blueyonder.co.uk ([127.0.0.1]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Mon, 16 Sep 2002 01:44:26 +0100 Received: from virgin.net (unverified [62.31.140.38]) by pcow058m.blueyonder.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.9) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 01:44:26 +0100 Message-ID: <3D8528F3.9010204@virgin.net> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; sc-GB; rv:1.1b) Gecko/20020722 X-Accept-Language: en,fr To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <1031680647.256.13881.m12@yahoogroups.com> <3D80AC01.2070401@bigpond.com> <005701c25b6c$fac7f840$3d887ed4@Robins> From: Roddy X-Yahoo-Profile: rodbodtoo MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 01:42:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 174 Fred wrote: > I've never seen that anarchistic flavor to Le Guin, especially in relation > to Taoism or anywhere else. If it's there, then it's a serious misreading > of Lao Tzu, who is not an anarchist by any means. The Tao > Te Ching is > chockful of advice for rulers. and John Cowan wrote: > Sure, that's his literary convention. But what advice it > > is! "Do only > what you absolutely must do, and can do in no other way." > > (Okay, okay, > that's Estraven, actually.) How many rulers would actually take > such advice? And all that stuff about how it's the loser > > who really > wins? Does that sound like convincing manual-for-princes > > material? and David Salo wrote: > I doubt that Lao-tzu is strictly anarchistic in the 20th-century > political sense, If the very notion of anarchism didn't exist when Lao Tzu was writing (which is what I assume), then it's a wee bit fruitless to try and decide if he was or he wasn't one... David again: > but the format of "advice to rulers" is just an > imitation, or a satire, of the standard early Chinese philosophical > text, which at least nominally aimed at converting the ruler of a > state to a particular pattern of behavior; like > Machiavelli's _Prince_, or Hobbes' _Leviathan_. The > Confucian texts are the best > known of these, but not the only ones. It's not so clear > > to me that > the advice in Lao-tzu is intended in the same way. That seems a little-bitty speculative to me. Speaking as a kibitzer, I should like to hear more from all three of you, and everybody else, about this thread. Hannah wrote: > I think that this goes with my ideas about non directive management. ' > ruling the country is like cooking a small fish' ... because their eyes keep on staring at you even as you fry em? Because you overtax the butter?? Nope it's no good, you'll have to tell me. No really, I would like to know what that means... chiz chiz rdg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-733-1032141454-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 18:57:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA25625 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:57:40 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-733-1032141454-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2002 01:57:34 -0000 X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 16 Sep 2002 01:57:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 32209 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2002 01:57:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2002 01:57:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.151) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2002 01:57:33 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA29097 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200209160208.WAA29097@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:57:31 +4400 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3D8528F3.9010204@virgin.net> from "Roddy" at Sep 16, 2002 01:42:27 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:57:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 176 Roddy scripsit: > ... because their eyes keep on staring at you even as you > fry em? Because you overtax the butter?? Nope it's no good, > you'll have to tell me. No really, I would like to know what > that means... I think it means "Easy does it." If you turn up the heat too high, the fish will overcook. -- We call nothing profound jcowan@reutershealth.com that is not wittily expressed. John Cowan --Northrop Frye (improved) http://www.reutershealth.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-734-1032197398-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 16 10:29:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.90]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA14875 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:29:59 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-734-1032197398-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2002 17:29:58 -0000 X-Sender: shevek@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 16 Sep 2002 17:29:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 55384 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2002 17:29:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2002 17:29:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.86) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2002 17:29:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.176] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2002 17:29:57 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "takver_oz" X-Originating-IP: 203.123.64.150 X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:29:56 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 284 Here are a couple of links to articles on Anarchism & Taoism: http://www.tao.ca/thinking/texts/taoanarch.html Taoism & Anarchism=20 This essay encapsulates the thinking of anarchists who consider Taoism as "The first clear expression of an anarchist sensibility" and "the Tao te ching, may be considered one of the greatest anarchist classics."=20 http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/~hkshp/humanities/e-ph88-11.htm Daoism and Anarchism by KWAN, Sui Chi (PhD Student, Humanities, HKUST; Tutor, OUHK) is very interesting as it initially identifies the correlations between Anarchism and Taoism (The 4 conditions of anarchism as postulated by Roger Ames in 1983), then proposes a fifth condition and argues that there are substantial differences between Anarchism and Taoism on this point. She says "I think it does make sense to consider Laozi and Zhuangzi verging on being anarchistic. Their works are heavily toned in an anarchistic way." The fifth point is in effect the balance between the rights of the individual and the collective in anarchism and the lack of "tension between individual liberty and collective will in Daoism in particular, and in Chinese philosophy in general."=20 Personally, I think this is a straw argument and the unity of the way in the Tao is similar to the importance of solidarity and mutuality as concepts in anarchism. (Bedap to Shevek: "Solidarity, yes! Even on Urras, where food falls out of the trees, even there Odo said that human solidarity is our one hope...." p143) This also goes back to the importance of mutual aid as a factor in evolution and in human society, as outlined by Kropotkin in _Mutual Aid_ (which Le Guin consciously draws upon for the basis of Odonian society) Kwan quotes Ames: '=E2=80=9CIn Taoism [Daoism], a person, like any other particular, is understood as a matrix of relationships which can only be fully expressed by reference to the organismic whole.=E2=80=9D Ames is right to point this out but wrong to pay inadequate attention to its full significance.' On Anarres Le Guin describes the process of building the society as "they held to the ideal of complex organicism.....an intricate process of balance: that balance of diversity which is the characteristic of life, of natural and social ecology." (p86) Or Listen to Odo from _The Social Organism_: "To make a thief, make an owner; to create crime, create laws." (p120) Definitely sounds like something Lao Tzu would say! Clearly in Le Guin's mind anarchism is "prefigured in early Taoist thought".=20 For links on Taoism (Daoism) try starting at the Daoist Literature page: http://www.geocities.com/dao_house/lit.html which has a number of links to articles on Le Guin and her works. In response to Peter Seyferth=20 > At the time I am collecting material for a dissertation > about utopia in UKLs science fiction--every hint for more > material is welcome. Try to find a copy of a book called 'Ursula Le Guin', Writers of the 21st Century series, Edited by Olander and Greenberg, published by Taplinger Publishing Company in 1979. It contains 9 essays of literary criticism and interpretation. Here is the contents listing: ------------------- CONTENTS=20 Introduction JOSEPH D. OLANDER and MARTIN HARRY GREENBERG=20 1. The Master Pattern: The Psychological Journey in the Earth sea Trilogy MARGARET P. ESMONDE=20 2. The Archetype of the Journey in Ursula K. Le Guin's Fiction PETER BRIGG=20 3. Ursula K. Le Guin: Damsel with a Dulcimer PETER S. ALTERMAN=20 4. Unbuilding Walls: Human Nature and the Nature of Evolutionary and Political Theory in The Dispossessed PHILIP E. SMITH II=20 5. Androgyny, Ambivalence, and Assimilation in The Left Hand of Darkness N. B. HAYLES=20 6. Anarchism and Utopian Tradition in The Dispossessed JOHN P. BRENNAN and MICHAEL C. DOWNS=20 7. The Other Side of Suffering: Touch as Theme and Metaphor in Le Guin's Science Fiction Novels THOMAS J. REMINGTON=20 8. Mythic Reversals: The Evolution of the Shadow Motif SNEJA GUNEW=20 9. Words of Binding: Patterns of Integration in the Earth sea Trilogy JOHN H. CROW and RICHARD D. ERLICH=20 ------------ I haven't kept up with works of 'literary criticism' on Le Guin for 15 years so I daresay there is much more available now.=20 --=20 with solidarity Takver=20 Radical Tradition, an anarchist and radical Australasian History Page http://www.takver.com/history/index.htm=20 Visit Anarres Books - http://www.anarres.org.au=20 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From sentto-2266408-735-1032209700-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 16 13:55:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.108]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA22992 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:55:03 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-735-1032209700-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2002 20:55:01 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 16 Sep 2002 20:55:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 37320 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2002 20:55:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2002 20:55:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.uk.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2002 20:54:59 -0000 Received: from du-004-0183.claranet.co.uk ([195.8.79.183] helo=Robins) by oracle.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #3) id 17r2tV-000PQ9-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:54:58 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c25dc3$45412ba0$b74f08c3@Robins> To: References: <1031680647.256.13881.m12@yahoogroups.com> <3D80AC01.2070401@bigpond.com> <005701c25b6c$fac7f840$3d887ed4@Robins> <3D8528F3.9010204@virgin.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:27:59 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 326 well, the trick in cooking a small fish is not to overcook it - is what I've always assumed - fish in general being easy to overcook and small fish even more so but I'm sure there are other interpretations about what Lao Tzu meant Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roddy" To: Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 1:42 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Odonianism, Anarchism and Taoism > > Hannah wrote: > > > I think that this goes with my ideas about non directive > management. ' > > ruling the country is like cooking a small fish' > > ... because their eyes keep on staring at you even as you > fry em? Because you overtax the butter?? Nope it's no good, > you'll have to tell me. No really, I would like to know what > that means... > > chiz chiz > > rdg > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-736-1032285884-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Sep 17 11:04:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA13338 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:04:48 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-736-1032285884-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2002 18:04:44 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 17 Sep 2002 18:04:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 82291 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2002 18:04:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2002 18:04:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m02.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.5) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2002 18:04:43 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id r.129.17938d13 (4254) for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <129.17938d13.2ab8c8b7@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 10500 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:04:39 EDT Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 262 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 567 Dans un e-mail dat=E9 du 17/09/2002 01:00:41 Paris, Madrid (heure d'=E9t=E9= ),=20 the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com a =E9crit : >=20 > Roddy scripsit: >=20 > > ... because their eyes keep on staring at you even as you > > fry em? Because you overtax the butter?? Nope it's no good, > > you'll have to tell me. No really, I would like to know what > > that means... >=20 > I think it means "Easy does it." If you turn up the heat too high, > the fish will overcook When I have tried to cook fish, the trick has been in not intervening. If= =20 you try to fiddle with them or stir or anything, they go to pieces. Which = is=20 how I interpreted this, as knowing when to be passive and let the fish just= =20 sit there and gently cook until they're done. Le Guin mentions several anarchist thinkers in her forward to "The Day befo= re=20 the Revolution" in The Wind's Twelve Quarters, Some of you have been quoti= ng=20 from it, maybe it's worth quoting more: "Odonianism is anarchism. Not the bomb-in-the-pocket stuff, which i= s=20 terrorism, whatever name it tries to dignify itself with; not the=20 social-Darwinist economic "libertarianism" of the far right; but anarchism,= =20 as prefigured in early Taoist thought, and expounded by Shelley and=20 Kropotkin, Goldman and Goodman. Anarchism's principal target is the=20 authoritarian State (capitalist or socialist); its principal moral-practica= l=20 theme is cooperation (solidarity, mutual aid). It is the most idealistic,= =20 and to me the most interesting, of all political theories." She dedicated the story "The Day Before the Revolution" to Paul Goodman. = =20 There is an essay in Dancing on The Edge of the World that further develops= =20 her ideas, called "A Non-Euclidean View of California". I seem to remember= =20 having read something by her that was more detailed about Kropotkin, but I= =20 can't put my finger on it. Does someone have a better memory? The University of Northern Iowa held the 1978 Science Fiction Research=20 Association's National Conference, which Le Guin attended and several paper= s=20 on her were presented. They published a booklet which includes her remarks= =20 and informal talks. You may be able to get it through the University. It= =20 was edited by Thomas Remington. Some of the disagreement about defining anarchism and Taoism can be explain= ed=20 by the fact that Le Guin feels free to come up with her own interpretations= .=20=20 She has described herself as "an unorthodox Taoist", but I liked David's=20 comment (I think it was David) saying that she might be closer to the=20 original Taoist thought than the modern versions. She usually is careful t= o=20 refer to "early" Taoism and distances herself from the superstitious belief= s=20 found in China today. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From sentto-2266408-737-1032444467-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Sep 19 07:07:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA26716 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 07:07:50 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-737-1032444467-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Sep 2002 14:07:47 -0000 X-Sender: shevek@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 19 Sep 2002 14:07:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 93437 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2002 14:07:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Sep 2002 14:07:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 2002 14:07:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.142] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Sep 2002 14:07:46 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "takver_oz" X-Originating-IP: 203.123.64.148 X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:07:45 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Paradises Lost - a critique of religious Taoism? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 317 I've just finished reading 'The Birthday of the World and Other Stories', the 2002 story collection. I enjoyed it immensely. The last story - 'Paradises Lost' - is a generation ship tale in which Le Guin develops a religous society on the ship which wants to continue voyaging, rather than stop and explore its planetary destination. They made it perfect. They sent us to heaven. They made the world for us so we could learn the way to everlasting life in bliss by living in mortal bliss. How could we learn it on some kind of earthen black world? Outside, unprotected, unguided? How can we keep going on the True Way if we leave the True Way? How can we reach heaven by stopping on an earth?....The goal is a spiritual goal. Don't you see, we've attained the Destination? Why do we have to stop our beautiful voyage at some evil, terrible, earthen place and do eva?(p339) When they reach the planet Le Guin tells us the choices: Go out into the dark and be left there, or continue on the bright and endless voyage. The unknown, or the known. Risk, or safety. Exile, or home.(p345) I think in this story Le Guin is being critical of Taoism when it is taken to an extreme. When the journey becomes an end to itself rather than a path to a goal or destination. When philosophy becomes a religion. Le Guin, as the narrator, like about a quarter of the generation ship, chooses exile, danger, and freedom. To explore and settle the new world. It reminded me of Shevek from the Dispossessed explaining to the Hainishman who wanted to accompany him to Anarres: "Freedom is never very safe." What do you all think about this story and is it a critique of religious Taoism?, or a comment on social complacency/fear of the unknown? Takver http://www.takver.com Visit Anarres Books - http://www.anarres.org.au ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-739-1032568586-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Sep 20 17:36:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.90]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA19703 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:36:35 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-739-1032568586-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Sep 2002 00:36:27 -0000 X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 21 Sep 2002 00:36:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 89690 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2002 00:36:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Sep 2002 00:36:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.terracom.net) (208.170.71.129) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Sep 2002 00:36:25 -0000 Received: from [208.170.95.62] (3C2-62.terracom.net [208.170.95.62]) by smtp.terracom.net (8.9.1a/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27750 for ; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 00:38:46 GMT X-Sender: dsalo@pop.softhome.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000b01c260ef$b4fe2540$b4867ed4@Robins> References: <000b01c260ef$b4fe2540$b4867ed4@Robins> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: David Salo X-Yahoo-Profile: iiipitaka MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 19:34:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Paradises Lost - a critique of religious Taoism? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 >no I don't think I agree. 'the way that can be gone is not the eternal way' >says something much more profound (if obscure-cum-mysterious) than ' to >travel hopefully is better than to arrive' I'm pretty sure that's not a suitable explanation of the meaning of the Lao-tzu's first lines: any _tao_ that you can "travel hopefully" is certainly a "taoable" tao, and therefore not the constant (or "eternal") Tao. I would translate (based upon my limited Classical Chinese): "The constant path (Tao) is not a walkable path (literally: not a "taoable tao"). The constant name is not a nameable name." Which is, at first glance anyway, certainly suggestive of "religion" -- in the broader Asian context, anyway. The line between *philosophy* and *religion* is rather artificial, anyway, and belongs to the past 200-250 years of European civilization. The boundary line simply does not exist in South and East Asia, where religious people are engaged in what one might call philosophical projects, and philosophers write works to be read by priests, monks, and sannyasis. As I have said, I hesitate to call "religious Taoism" (or Taoisms - there are many forms) "corrupt" or out of the main line of descent from the Taoism of "Lao-tzu" (or whatever person or community produced _the_ Lao-tzu -- i.e. the Tao Te Ching) or Chuang-tzu. Certainly many of the most obvious and external forms of Taoism look an awful lot like "H-P", and mix together slightly stale science (astronomy, chemistry, herbalism) with prognosticatory and manipulative "magical" formulae that to Western eyes can seem unintelligible or even obnoxious. At the same time the Taoist Canon (which is huge, taking up a wall of shelves in a library) *does* contain a whole lot of philosophical writing as well, including a long tradition of commentary on Taoist classics (like the Lao-tzu). I am *not* well read in that tradition, but neither are many scholars on "Philosophical Taoism" (a very modern and rather manipulative scholarly category), and I would personally be very hesitant to dismiss the "Religious Taoist" tradition and its views of the Lao-tzu, etc. without a much sounder basis than I have or have seen. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/ySSFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-740-1032610375-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Sep 21 05:12:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.87]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id FAA06205 for ; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 05:12:57 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-740-1032610375-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Sep 2002 12:12:55 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 21 Sep 2002 12:12:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 33488 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2002 12:12:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Sep 2002 12:12:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.uk.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Sep 2002 12:12:53 -0000 Received: from du-005-0028.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.134.28] helo=Robins) by oracle.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #3) id 17sj7z-000LM7-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 13:12:52 +0100 Message-ID: <001c01c26168$36932060$1c867ed4@Robins> To: References: <000b01c260ef$b4fe2540$b4867ed4@Robins> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 13:12:52 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Paradises Lost - a critique of religious Taoism? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 52 not sure if it's you not understanding me or me not understanding you. what i was trying to say was - that the 'Paradises lost' story takver was referring to involved the 'to travel hopefully is better than to arrive' idea getting hung up on a religious thing, and takver was suggesting this was religious Taosim and in some way flawed. I wanted to say that I thought there was more to the religious element in Tao than I thought Takver was implying, and what you say about no clear boundary between philosophy and religion feels right to me. You clearly have a much more in depth knowledge of Taoism than I do, Dave, even if you modestly disclaim. Interested to see your use of the word 'canon' bearing in mind the term 'The Canons of Man' used in City of Illusions. I only know the Tao Te ching which I bought after reading City of Illusions - an arty version with black and white photographs which has since encountered damp somewhere and is a bit curly and the pages tend to stick together. Oh yes, and I've read 'The Tao of Pooh.' Mind you, I think I'd better read the Paradise Lost story again, I think I may be getting it mixed up with another generation ship story which had the rationalist Ike in it, and his daughter with the eye problem. Which one was that? Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Salo" To: Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 1:34 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Paradises Lost - a critique of religious Taoism? > >no I don't think I agree. 'the way that can be gone is not the eternal way' > >says something much more profound (if obscure-cum-mysterious) than ' to > >travel hopefully is better than to arrive' > > I'm pretty sure that's not a suitable explanation of the meaning > of the Lao-tzu's first lines: any _tao_ that you can "travel > hopefully" is certainly a "taoable" tao, and therefore not the > constant (or "eternal") Tao. I would translate (based upon my > limited Classical Chinese): "The constant path (Tao) is not a > walkable path (literally: not a "taoable tao"). The constant name is > not a nameable name." > Which is, at first glance anyway, certainly suggestive of > "religion" -- in the broader Asian context, anyway. > The line between *philosophy* and *religion* is rather artificial, > anyway, and belongs to the past 200-250 years of European > civilization. The boundary line simply does not exist in South and > East Asia, where religious people are engaged in what one might call > philosophical projects, and philosophers write works to be read by > priests, monks, and sannyasis. > As I have said, I hesitate to call "religious Taoism" (or Taoisms > - there are many forms) "corrupt" or out of the main line of descent > from the Taoism of "Lao-tzu" (or whatever person or community > produced _the_ Lao-tzu -- i.e. the Tao Te Ching) or Chuang-tzu. > Certainly many of the most obvious and external forms of Taoism look > an awful lot like "H-P", and mix together slightly stale science > (astronomy, chemistry, herbalism) with prognosticatory and > manipulative "magical" formulae that to Western eyes can seem > unintelligible or even obnoxious. At the same time the Taoist Canon > (which is huge, taking up a wall of shelves in a library) *does* > contain a whole lot of philosophical writing as well, including a > long tradition of commentary on Taoist classics (like the Lao-tzu). > I am *not* well read in that tradition, but neither are many scholars > on "Philosophical Taoism" (a very modern and rather manipulative > scholarly category), and I would personally be very hesitant to > dismiss the "Religious Taoist" tradition and its views of the > Lao-tzu, etc. without a much sounder basis than I have or have seen. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From lquilter@boalthall.berkeley.edu Mon Sep 23 19:52:42 2002 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 19:52:42 -0700 (PDT) From: lq2@feministsf.org X-Sender: lquilter@walnut.he.net Reply-To: lq2@feministsf.org To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Subject: "truth" in a le guin story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 hi -- i have a mere identification question, that i asked a while back on another list and nobody knew the answer. i recall a story -- i feel somewhat certain it was ursula le guin -- in which people from two different cultures are both involved in investigating a situation. the narrative perspective is surprised to discover that the other culture has a distinctive attitude towards truth. they are not concerned with multiple differing perspectives. each perspective adds truth. now, my recollection may be off in one or more particulars. it may not be le guin -- but i think it is. i seem to recall that this was one element of a larger story; just a side conversation that revealed an element of this other culture. does this ring any bells with anyone? From sentto-2266408-746-1033083814-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Sep 26 16:43:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA11976 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:43:40 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-746-1033083814-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Sep 2002 23:43:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 90786 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2002 23:43:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Sep 2002 23:43:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Sep 2002 23:43:33 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: donalcasey@terra.es Received: from [66.218.67.188] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Sep 2002 23:43:33 -0000 X-Sender: donalcasey@terra.es X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 26 Sep 2002 22:57:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 1631 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2002 22:57:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Sep 2002 22:57:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Sep 2002 22:57:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.152] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Sep 2002 22:57:02 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Donal Casey" X-Originating-IP: 193.153.109.1 X-Yahoo-Profile: rumfuddlecasey X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 26 Sep 2002 23:43:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 22:56:58 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] LHoD Movie Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 701 Hello there, I just bumped into this site and group this morning. It looks great. I didn't know a film adaptation of The Left Hand of Darkness was being made - (everything's being made into a movie these days : The Earthsea books, Narnia, Rendevouz with Rama, Ringworld, Riverworld.....) Anyway, the idea of LHoD as a film rather frightens me. It could fall so flat. Do any of you share my fear? I've seen the poster here in Photos; and do not like the look of those buildings! The cities in the book were surely more austere and subtly yet utterly alien. And, yep, wintry. Well, the poster's only a teaser I know. But I'm worried. I live in Spain many miles from Sci-Fi channel so I probably won't see the finished work for several years anyhow. I've had a peep at previous threads, but there's too much there to read 'em all - so I hope I'm not unwittingly reviving some dead thread topic. ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-747-1033094455-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Sep 26 19:41:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id TAA27488 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:41:38 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-747-1033094455-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2002 02:40:55 -0000 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 27 Sep 2002 02:40:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 52534 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2002 02:40:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2002 02:40:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out001.verizon.net) (206.46.170.140) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2002 02:40:55 -0000 Received: from zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.81.88]) by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20020927024054.TLAU3265.out001.verizon.net@zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 21:40:54 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020926221054.02d90d48@incoming.verizon.net> X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out001.verizon.net from [64.222.81.88] at Thu, 26 Sep 2002 21:40:54 -0500 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 22:43:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] LHoD Movie Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 737 At 10:56 PM 9/26/2002 +0000, Donal Casey wrote: >Anyway, the idea of LHoD as a film rather frightens me. >It could fall so flat. Do any of you share my fear? I've seen the >poster here in Photos; and do not like the look of those buildings! >The cities in the book were surely more austere and subtly yet >utterly alien. And, yep, wintry. Well, the poster's only a teaser I >know. But I'm worried. The poster has nothing to do with the SCIFI production. It was the creation of one our members, inspired by Le Guin's own comments about which actors she would like to see play Estraven and Genly Ai (Sigourney Weaver and Michael Dorn, respectively). There are still plenty of reasons to be worried, but the poster isn't one of them. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-753-1035913970-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Oct 29 10:00:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA19145 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:00:20 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-753-1035913970-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Oct 2002 17:52:53 -0000 X-Sender: alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 29 Oct 2002 17:52:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 74731 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2002 17:52:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Oct 2002 17:52:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.80) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2002 17:52:46 -0000 Received: from alisonpage.demon.co.uk ([194.222.142.202] helo=pre-installedco) by anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 186aXl-0000kG-0U for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:52:45 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c27f74$8d82f920$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Alison Page" X-Yahoo-Profile: vilaphile MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:50:40 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Hi guys, I've just recently joined the Ekumen group Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 Filiz said - >I'm writing this >mail to express my jealousy about the educational system which has the >capacity and eagerness to make its members study on Le Guin. I feel jealous too - I wish our teachers had asked us to read Lathe of Heaven when I was at school, instead of Tess of the D'Urbevilles. >What I'm going to say here might not be useful for Rantrix but what Le Guin >wants to send in her books as a message is that there should be such a >system that no-one would be frightened to tell oneself because of being under > the disguised (educational)oppression of the country borders Hey - I just finished 'the Telling' today - so I'm interested to hear you pick out this message. Did you feel 'the Telling' resonated with your own experience at all? To RantriX, I would say that the key image is that the jellyfish doesn't try to shape the sea, and doesn't try to fight the sea, and doesn't even try to make a path through the sea. It is just carried by the sea, and takes its shape entirely from the water in which it immerses itself. I think that is an analogy to how George Orr should exist within the multiple realities of existence, and by further analogy how we should live in the world according to the Tao Te Ching. 'The Wise Person does not strive or impose on people' etc. BTW - I must admit I can't live in that kind of way at all Alison ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/jd3IAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-757-1036148629-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Nov 1 03:03:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.87]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id DAA26873 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 03:03:50 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-757-1036148629-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2002 11:03:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 61655 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 11:03:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Nov 2002 11:03:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 11:03:46 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mayaward@yahoo.com.au Received: from [66.218.67.154] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2002 11:03:46 -0000 X-Sender: mayaward@yahoo.com.au X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 1 Nov 2002 06:50:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 73077 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 06:50:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Nov 2002 06:50:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web21101.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.227.103) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 06:50:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20021101065044.5119.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [210.50.45.65] by web21101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:50:44 EST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: =?iso-8859-1?q?maya=20ward?= X-Yahoo-Profile: mayaward X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 01 Nov 2002 11:03:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:50:44 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] about 'The TELLING' Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 61 Dear Filiz How would you feel about posting your mailing address so that ekumen members can send you Ursula books (we get a few in second hand bookshops here in Melbourne, Australia which I would be happy to send to you when I find them). Well done for your words - they are important messages for the West. Regards Maya filiz kaynak wrote:Hi, Alison I've no idea about 'The Telling' because it is very hard for me to get a Le Guin book unless it is translated into Turkish. The only English versions I could find from the English-selling bookstores were 'The Wizard of Earthsea' and it seems like I'm exaggerating but those two(not three) versions swept one fourth of my salary(monthly).(I am a lecturer at a university). I told about the disguised educational oppression before, now I'm telling about the open economic oppression of the hegemony. By the way, thinking about the Taoist philosophy, it would be wonderful to strive less if all the others did the same thing but the passivity it emposes creates 'opium' effect on societies such as mine. And here most of us strive for our basic needs, this is the MIDDLE EAST. And Le Guin knows about this passivity aspect and in her books she tries to rasp it. (Ex.FOUR WAYS OF FORGIVENESS) Bye, Filiz _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Careers- 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-756-1036136108-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Oct 31 23:35:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id XAA17496 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:35:17 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-756-1036136108-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2002 07:35:08 -0000 X-Sender: osidian@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 1 Nov 2002 07:35:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 94390 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 07:35:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Nov 2002 07:35:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.17.123) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 07:35:08 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:35:07 -0800 Received: from 66.81.69.100 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 07:35:07 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Nov 2002 07:35:07.0934 (UTC) FILETIME=[33C48BE0:01C28179] From: "RantriX Vu" X-Originating-IP: [66.81.69.100] X-Yahoo-Profile: orantrixo MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:35:07 -0800 Subject: [the-ekumen] Lathe of Heaven Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 While reading the Lathe of Heaven, Ursual K. Le Guin always have a quote before a chapter... I do not understand the significant of this... can someone help me out? One of her quote for the first chapter of Lathe of Heaven is Counfucius and you are both dreams, and I who say you are dreams am a dream myself. This is a paradox. Tomorrow a wise man may explain it; that tomorrow will not be for ten thougsand generations. --Chuang Tse: II So... Chuang Tse is saying that we're all dreams. And dreams aren't real... so is she/he saying that we're not real and this isn't reality? That this is just all a dream and when you die, you wake up? And how come it's a paradox? Is it because the speaker is a dream and the person that the speaker is talking about is also a dream? Therefore they contradict each other and 2 dreams can't exist within a dream? _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/jd3IAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-761-1036334294-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Nov 3 06:38:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.90]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id GAA06897 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 06:38:17 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-761-1036334294-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Nov 2002 14:38:14 -0000 X-Sender: flzkaynak@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 3 Nov 2002 14:38:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 74475 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 14:38:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2002 14:38:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.226) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 14:38:13 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 06:38:13 -0800 Received: from 212.252.6.204 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 14:38:12 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2002 14:38:13.0431 (UTC) FILETIME=[A3877C70:01C28346] From: "filiz kaynak" X-Originating-IP: [212.252.6.204] X-Yahoo-Profile: flzkaynak MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 14:38:12 +0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] to Maya Ward Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 Hi, I'm delighted to hear your offer from Australia, thank you very much.I would like to send my address of the university I've been teaching. There is a small library we are trying to organize,(it is a technical university which lacks literary works)and that address is safer to get the delivery. But it is a very long way and I would like to pay the fee as much as I can afford. BYE and BYE THE WAY THANKS TO LE GUIN Filiz My Address:Filiz Kaynak Yýldýz Technical University School of Foreign Languages (Yabancý Diller Yüksek Okulu) Beþiktaþ ÝSTANBUL TURKEY _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-762-1036343573-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Nov 3 09:12:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA08786 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:12:57 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-762-1036343573-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Nov 2002 17:12:53 -0000 X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 3 Nov 2002 17:12:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 89639 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 17:12:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2002 17:12:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.151) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 17:12:51 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27833 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:24:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200211031724.MAA27833@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:11:07 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: from "filiz kaynak" at Nov 03, 2002 02:38:12 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:11:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] to Maya Ward Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 63 filiz kaynak scripsit: > My Address:Filiz Kaynak > Yýldýz Technical University > School of Foreign Languages > (Yabancý Diller Yüksek Okulu) > Beþiktaþ ÝSTANBUL > TURKEY WARNING: Most of us non-Turks will probably see the accented characters here as y-with-acute, but it is really i-with-no-dot. Using i rather than y is probably more likely to get past the Turkish postal service. -- John Cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com www.ccil.org/~cowan www.reutershealth.com "If I have seen farther than others, it is because I am surrounded by dwarves." --Murray Gell-Mann To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-763-1036363008-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Nov 3 14:36:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.65]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA20326 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:36:54 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-763-1036363008-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Nov 2002 22:36:49 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 3 Nov 2002 22:36:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 12368 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 22:36:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2002 22:36:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO barry.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.25) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 22:36:48 -0000 Received: from 1cust77.tnt17.nashville.tn.da.uu.net ([67.216.88.77] helo=spl) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 188TMN-0000L7-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:36:47 -0500 Message-ID: <001401c28388$6e41eb80$1958d843@spl> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:29:09 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Lathe of Heaven Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 96 These are never easy quotations to interpret, and the interpretations are supposed to give you insight into the forthcoming text ( chapter, etc.) You need to really work on them. If I, or anybody else were to simply interpret them for you, you would miss the joy of getting deeper into the mystery of just what it is that makes LeGuin's wirting so wonderful. Put another way, it's like explaining the "punch line" of a joke, or simplifying the moral of an Aesop fable. Doing so robs you of the pleasure of a better understanding of the point being made. good reading to you Darius Thieme ----- Original Message ----- From: RantriX Vu To: Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 1:35 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Lathe of Heaven > While reading the Lathe of Heaven, Ursual K. Le Guin always have a quote > before a chapter... I do not understand the significant of this... can > someone help me out? > > One of her quote for the first chapter of Lathe of Heaven is > > Counfucius and you are both dreams, and I who say you are dreams am a dream > myself. This is a paradox. Tomorrow a wise man may explain it; that tomorrow > will not be for ten thougsand generations. > --Chuang Tse: II > > So... Chuang Tse is saying that we're all dreams. And dreams aren't real... > so is she/he saying that we're not real and this isn't reality? That this is > just all a dream and when you die, you wake up? And how come it's a paradox? > Is it because the speaker is a dream and the person that the speaker is > talking about is also a dream? Therefore they contradict each other and 2 > dreams can't exist within a dream? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/jd3IAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-764-1036363218-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Nov 3 14:40:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA21128 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:40:24 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-764-1036363218-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Nov 2002 22:40:18 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 3 Nov 2002 22:40:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 13260 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 22:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2002 22:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO barry.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.25) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 22:40:18 -0000 Received: from 1cust34.tnt17.nashville.tn.da.uu.net ([67.216.88.34] helo=spl) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 188TPk-0006RT-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:40:17 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01c28388$eb37f8a0$1958d843@spl> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:32:08 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] What does "Omelas" Mean? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 97 The term is "omela". Separating out the "O" won't work. Search further in Le Guin's writing for the explanation Regards- dthieme ----- Original Message ----- From: crewchick1114 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 11:36 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] What does "Omelas" Mean? In Le Guin's Essay "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" What does Omelas mean? The melas part could be Salem backwards refering to the Salem witch trials and how they were inadvertaly prosecuting people to keep the balance of good and evil. But what siginificance is the O? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-765-1036460015-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Nov 4 17:33:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA03228 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:33:37 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-765-1036460015-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Nov 2002 01:33:35 -0000 X-Sender: the_last_naiad@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 5 Nov 2002 01:33:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 88174 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 01:33:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Nov 2002 01:33:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.9.101) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 01:33:33 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:33:33 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.1 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 01:33:33 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2002 01:33:33.0778 (UTC) FILETIME=[5AB20B20:01C2846B] From: "Jenn Martin" X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.1] X-Yahoo-Profile: wateryone MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:33:33 +1300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] What does "Omelas" Mean? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 432 Where do you get your ideas from Ms Le Guin? >From Dostoevsky and from reading roadsigns backwards, or course, doesn't everybody/ Omelas is 'Salem, Oregon' backwards, as seen and switched by Le Guin driving through Oregon once. There's an essay about it in either Language of the Night or Dancing on the Edge of the World. Jenn _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free!  Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-766-1036460089-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Nov 4 17:34:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA03615 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:34:51 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-766-1036460089-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Nov 2002 01:34:49 -0000 X-Sender: the_last_naiad@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 5 Nov 2002 01:34:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 93278 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 01:34:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Nov 2002 01:34:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.9.139) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 01:34:49 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:34:49 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.1 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 01:34:48 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2002 01:34:49.0066 (UTC) FILETIME=[879214A0:01C2846B] From: "Jenn Martin" X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.1] X-Yahoo-Profile: wateryone MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:34:48 +1300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] What does "Omelas" Mean? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 434 Okay, so Roddy has the proper quote :) I can't believe I forgot the 'forgetting' Dostoyevsky bit... Jenn >From: Roddy >Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com >To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] What does "Omelas" Mean? >Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 02:03:13 +0000 > >crewchick1114 wrote: > > > In Le Guin's Essay "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" > > What does Omelas mean? > >Le Guin says > >"...it came from a road sign: Salem (Oregon) backwards. Don't you read road >signs backwards? POTS. WOLS nerdlihc. Ocsicnarf Nas...Salem equals schelomo >equals salaam equals Peace. Melas. O melas. Omelas. Homme helas. 'Where do >you >get your ideas from Ms Le Guin?' From forgetting Dostoyevsky and reading >road >signs backwards naturally. Where else?" > >chiz chiz > >rdg > _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-767-1036592771-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Nov 6 06:26:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id GAA31249 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 06:26:13 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-767-1036592771-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2002 14:26:11 -0000 X-Sender: peter@seyferth.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Nov 2002 14:26:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 9691 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 14:26:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2002 14:26:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.webmailer.de) (192.67.198.81) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 14:26:09 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.10] (pD950EA46.dip.t-dialin.net [217.80.234.70]) by post.webmailer.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22782 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:26:06 +0100 (MET) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 To: Ekumen Message-ID: From: Peter Seyferth X-Yahoo-Profile: peterseyferth MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:25:56 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] Pronouns in "The Left Hand of Darkness" Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 880 Hi, in her essay "Is Gender Necessary? Redux" Le Guin states that she had written a screenplay of "The Left Hand of Darkness" in 1985. There she used the invented pronoun a/un/a's instead of the generic English pronoun he/him/his to refer to Gethenians not pregnant or in kemmer. On Laura Quilter's Homepage (http://www.feministsf.org/femsf/authors/leguin/performances.html) I find that "The Left Hand of Darkness" was performanced live at an theatre in Chicago 1994-95. Does anybody know if Le Guins screenplay was used for the performance? Or which pronouns were used? Are there any recordings of or further informations about this performance? Thank you for your help. Peter To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-768-1036603275-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Nov 6 09:21:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA26103 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:21:19 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-768-1036603275-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2002 17:21:16 -0000 X-Sender: anilyilmaz@karatahta.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Nov 2002 17:21:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 23315 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 17:21:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2002 17:21:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO s2.lookwhois.com) (66.109.98.82) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 17:21:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 11064 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 16:59:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karatahta.com) (212.253.56.205) by s2.lookwhois.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 16:59:58 -0000 Message-ID: <3DC94F44.4040801@karatahta.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: tr To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: From: =?ISO-8859-9?Q?=22S=2EAn=FDl_Y=FDlmaz=22?= X-Yahoo-Profile: anilyilmaz2001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:20:04 +0200 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Pronouns in "The Left Hand of Darkness" Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 964 Hi, Maybe a little bit irrelevant but in a compilation of stories (probably The Compass Rose),in the introduction of a story (Winter's King) Ms.LeGuin states that her use of he/his/him was the result of some kind of self-inflicted censorship. In the said story, she uses she/hers/her with the exception of masculine titles like "king". Or so I recall. By the way, the story, "Winter's King" is a great one and has the most beautiful lines for the praise of winter and cold I have ever seen. "the cold, the dear and bitter cold of Winter" Anil Peter Seyferth wrote: >Hi, > >in her essay "Is Gender Necessary? Redux" Le Guin states that she had >written a screenplay of "The Left Hand of Darkness" in 1985. There she used >the invented pronoun a/un/a's instead of the generic English pronoun >he/him/his to refer to Gethenians not pregnant or in kemmer. On Laura >Quilter's Homepage >(http://www.feministsf.org/femsf/authors/leguin/performances.html) I find >that "The Left Hand of Darkness" was performanced live at an theatre in >Chicago 1994-95. Does anybody know if Le Guins screenplay was used for the >performance? Or which pronouns were used? Are there any recordings of or >further informations about this performance? >Thank you for your help. > >Peter > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-769-1036814593-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Nov 8 20:03:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id UAA05046 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:03:20 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-769-1036814593-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Nov 2002 04:03:13 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 9 Nov 2002 04:03:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 4750 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 04:03:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Nov 2002 04:03:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mclean.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.57) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 04:03:12 -0000 Received: from 1cust232.tnt17.nashville.tn.da.uu.net ([67.216.88.232] helo=spl) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18AMpz-0006aG-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 23:03:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000101c287a3$d7139900$e858d843@spl> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:48:14 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] What does "Omelas" Mean? Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 370 Thanks very much for the info. I'll check it out when I get a chance Darius ----- Original Message ----- From: Jenn Martin To: Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] What does "Omelas" Mean? > > Where do you get your ideas from Ms Le Guin? > From Dostoevsky and from reading roadsigns backwards, or course, doesn't > everybody/ > > Omelas is 'Salem, Oregon' backwards, as seen and switched by Le Guin driving > through Oregon once. > > There's an essay about it in either Language of the Night or Dancing on the > Edge of the World. > > Jenn > > _________________________________________________________________ > Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-770-1036896638-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Nov 9 18:50:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA19307 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:50:44 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-770-1036896638-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Nov 2002 02:50:38 -0000 X-Sender: schwelle@libero.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Nov 2002 02:50:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 69996 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 02:50:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Nov 2002 02:50:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.81) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 02:50:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.147] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Nov 2002 02:50:37 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3DC94F44.4040801@karatahta.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "irrem" X-Originating-IP: 212.210.142.167 X-Yahoo-Profile: nonchiederci MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:50:34 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Pronouns in "The Left Hand of Darkness" Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 478 If i recall correctly, the story to which you refer is contained=20 in "The wind twelve quarters". She [U.K. LeGuin] explained that since the neutral pronoun seemed=20 somehow masculine and the use of a double pronoun would have=20 complicated the reading, she chose to use the masculine form of=20 titles and the feminine form of pronouns. In italic (as I first read this story) the effect is quite=20 disconcerting... you don't have to forget life-long assumption, you=20 have to change the way to made them. Paula --- In the-ekumen@y..., "S.An=FDl Y=FDlmaz" wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Maybe a little bit irrelevant but in a compilation of stories=20 (probably=20 > The Compass Rose),in the introduction of a story (Winter's King)=20 > Ms.LeGuin states that > her use of he/his/him was the result of some kind of self- inflicted=20 > censorship. In the said story, she uses she/hers/her with the=20 exception=20 > of masculine titles like "king". > Or so I recall. >=20 > By the way, the story, "Winter's King" is a great one and has the=20 most=20 > beautiful lines for the praise of winter and cold I have ever seen. > "the cold, the dear and bitter cold of Winter" >=20 > Anil >=20 > Peter Seyferth wrote: >=20 > >Hi, > > > >in her essay "Is Gender Necessary? Redux" Le Guin states that she=20 had > >written a screenplay of "The Left Hand of Darkness" in 1985. There=20 she used > >the invented pronoun a/un/a's instead of the generic English=20 pronoun > >he/him/his to refer to Gethenians not pregnant or in kemmer. On=20 Laura > >Quilter's Homepage=20 > >(http://www.feministsf.org/femsf/authors/leguin/performances.html)=20 I find > >that "The Left Hand of Darkness" was performanced live at an=20 theatre in > >Chicago 1994-95. Does anybody know if Le Guins screenplay was used=20 for the > >performance? Or which pronouns were used? Are there any recordings=20 of or > >further informations about this performance? > >Thank you for your help. > > > >Peter > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >the-ekumen-unsubscribe@e... > > > >=20 > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to=20 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 > > > > > > > >=20=20 > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From sentto-2266408-771-1036948609-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Nov 10 09:16:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA03688 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:16:52 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-771-1036948609-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Nov 2002 17:16:49 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Nov 2002 17:16:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 68577 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 17:16:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Nov 2002 17:16:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 17:16:48 -0000 Received: from dialup-209.245.133.15.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.245.133.15] helo=computer) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18AvhX-0006K2-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:16:48 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20021110091600.009de540@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3DC94F44.4040801@karatahta.com> From: David S Bratman X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:16:44 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: Pronouns in "The Left Hand of Darkness" Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 537 The 25 anniversary edition of "Left Hand" contains an appendix in which Le Guin tries out various other ways of handling the pronoun situation. - David Bratman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-772-1037127885-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Nov 12 11:21:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA00575 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:21:22 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-772-1037127885-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2002 19:04:45 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 12 Nov 2002 19:04:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 14981 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 19:04:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2002 19:04:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m07.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.162) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 19:04:44 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id r.6a.29054945 (3940) for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:04:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6a.29054945.2b02aaa7@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 10500 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:04:07 EST Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 275 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 550 "crewchick" asked what Omelas meant. In one of her essays Le guin explained that it came from her habit of reading road signs backwards. Salem, Oregon was Salem. O. I'm not sure whether or not it's safe to go much further, though the Salem witch trials are an interesting association. the "witches" that were put to death were certainly scapegoats just like the child in the story. Judy Dubois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/ASSHAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-773-1037128607-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Nov 12 11:30:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA04221 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:30:05 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-773-1037128607-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2002 19:16:48 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 12 Nov 2002 19:16:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 19459 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 19:16:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2002 19:16:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m08.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.163) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 19:16:47 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id r.23.2765901c (3940) for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:16:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <23.2765901c.2b02ad97@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 10500 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:16:39 EST Subject: [the-ekumen] pronouns Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 553 I'm not going to be able to find exactly where she said it, but in one of her discussions of pronouns, Le guin points out that "they" can and has long been used as a pronoun when the sex is unknown. "Someone knocked on the door but they went away before I opened it." This is a great way to avoid those oh so awkward He/she things. Judy Dubois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/ASSHAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-774-1037383081-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Nov 15 09:59:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.87]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA26952 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:59:49 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-774-1037383081-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2002 17:58:01 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 15 Nov 2002 17:58:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 90514 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 17:58:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2002 17:58:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp6.mindspring.com) (207.69.200.110) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 17:58:00 -0000 Received: from 1cust10.tnt17.nashville.tn.da.uu.net ([67.216.88.10] helo=spl) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Ckj9-0002cY-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:57:59 -0500 Message-ID: <002101c28ccf$6f265fe0$fe58d843@spl> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:50:05 -0600 Subject: [the-ekumen] offer of copies of le Guin books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 377 Attention:the ekumen site editor/director-- whatever As a regular user ofthe ekumen web-site, I just stumbled onto a bpoosibility at a local used-bookstore that I wanted to share with any readers interested. A local used bookstore frequently has gobs of used LeGuin books. Since it seems to be a probem for some of our readers to acquire her stuff, and since this bookstore is willing, I offer the following: I'll go into the store and make up a list of some of the titles they have (most of them, if it isn't too many). The store has very reasonable prices; most paperbacks average about $2.50 at this store, and I just got two C.S. Lewis paperbacks there for $1.80 each. The store is wlling to ship, and already does in the US. Is this o.k. with our site-management person? If so, i would not mind doing this, and I may possibly be willing to send a few copies overseas for free, book post is reatively inexpensive, and there are apparently a few readers who have real problems getting stuff (foreign exchange problems; no dollars, no dollar credit cards, etc., etc.) How does this sound as a concept? Please reply asap, as I'm ready to go, and the bookstore manager likes the idea. Good reading, you-all Darius Thieme [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Share the magic of Harry Potter with Yahoo! Messenger http://us.click.yahoo.com/4Q_cgB/JmBFAA/46VHAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-775-1037482823-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Nov 16 13:40:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA18094 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:40:27 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-775-1037482823-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Nov 2002 21:40:23 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 16 Nov 2002 21:40:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 92453 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 21:39:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Nov 2002 21:39:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 21:39:53 -0000 Received: from [216.80.74.133] (216-80-98-107.d.enteract.com [216.80.98.107]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3E18273 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:39:52 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002101c28ccf$6f265fe0$fe58d843@spl> References: <002101c28ccf$6f265fe0$fe58d843@spl> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Dave Awl X-Yahoo-Profile: dayvoll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:38:52 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] offer of copies of le Guin books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 625 Darius wrote: >As a regular user ofthe ekumen web-site, I just stumbled onto a >bpoosibility at a local used-bookstore that I wanted to share with >any readers interested. A local >used bookstore frequently has gobs of used LeGuin books. First, apologies for my slow response time -- my workload is really heavy at present so I don't have much time for responding to email. I, Dave Awl, am the Webmaster for The Ekumen site and the moderator of The Ekumen online community (i.e. this Yahoo Group). Darius, you're quite welcome to post any information you have about availability of Le Guin books and special deals here on The Ekumen mailing list. I trust you to do this in a judicious manner as a means of helping out other Le Guin readers. As far as updating The Ekumen's Web pages goes, I'm kind of backlogged with Web update work I need to do, and given my schedule constraints at the moment, I don't know how soon I'll get a chance to make any changes to the site. So I really can't promise if and when I could add any info to the pages about bookstores -- and I also think doing so is a bit more than I can take on in terms of the scope of the site. So, I'd suggest that you go ahead and post whatever info you have here, to the mailing list. The traffic to the Ekumen Web pages is relatively low, so you'll probably reach as many people here on the list anyway. Alternatively, or in addition, you might consider contacting Fredrik of the Le Guin's World Web site. Fredrik's site is more comprehensive than mine and he does a wonderful job of keeping it up to date...though I can't speak for Fredrik, he might be interested in posting the information there if you ask him. best, Dave Awl -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ New from Hope and Nonthings Publishing... What the Sea Means: Poems, Stories & Monologues 1987-2002 by Dave Awl ---> Info: http://www.ocelotfactory.com/seameans To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-776-1037720823-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Nov 19 09:09:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.99]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA25323 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:09:52 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-776-1037720823-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Nov 2002 15:47:03 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 19 Nov 2002 15:47:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 91405 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 15:47:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Nov 2002 15:47:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hall.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.60) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 15:47:02 -0000 Received: from 1cust63.tnt17.nashville.tn.da.uu.net ([67.216.88.63] helo=spl) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18EAaa-00071j-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:47:01 -0500 Message-ID: <003401c28fe1$c9644340$fab6e843@spl> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "MindSpring User" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:38:12 -0600 Subject: [the-ekumen] offer for books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 413 Hopefully some of you read my offer, copied onto our website by our Webmaster. Anyway, I'm going to repeat it here, and please RESPOND, say "hi", make suggestions , so I'll know if should do more, less, forget it, or whatever. I frequent a good local bookstore, which almost always has some LeGjuin works. It just dawned on me the other day that maybe the owner would be willing to ship. The answer is yes. Her prices are reasonable: averaging $2.50 for paperbacks. Also, they also have an e-mail address. I'm going there today, and I'll put together a list of some of what they've got, just to give you an idea. Also, I should say I was impressed with the very avid and thoughtful readership on our website, that a few of you were introspective readers, and some had difficulties getting books, owing to the situation you were in (another country, inaccesible stores, foreign exchange problems, etc.). Maybe I might be willing to help out in a few cases in some kind of way, like perhaps sending a few books to you from the bookstore. So, watch for my next message with the bookstore list (asap). Good reading to you! Darius ===== ciao! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Shop for Posters and Prints @ Art.com with state-of-the-art Custom Framing! http://us.click.yahoo.com/lAE0qB/adBFAA/_ZuFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-777-1037743820-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Nov 19 17:42:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA26408 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:42:30 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-777-1037743820-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Nov 2002 22:10:31 -0000 X-Sender: schwelle@libero.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 19 Nov 2002 22:10:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 86603 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 22:10:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Nov 2002 22:10:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 22:10:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.162] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Nov 2002 22:10:14 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003401c28fe1$c9644340$fab6e843@spl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "irrem" X-Originating-IP: 157.138.217.36 X-Yahoo-Profile: nonchiederci MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:10:10 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: offer for books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 520 Well....I'm saying "Hi" ^.^ As a foreigner, and living in a not english-speaking country, I find often difficulties in the search of Le Guin books. I'm not sure if the offer you made is so simple...but if it's even remotely possible, count me on!I live in Italy, where Le Guin works aren't exactly unknown, simply impossible to obtain (most of them were printed time ago, and copies are hard to track) Paula --- In the-ekumen@y..., "MindSpring User" wrote: > Hopefully some of you read my offer, copied onto our website by our Webmaster. > Anyway, I'm going to repeat it here, and please RESPOND, say "hi", make suggestions , so I'll know if should do more, less, forget it, or whatever. > > I frequent a good local bookstore, which almost always has some LeGjuin works. > It just dawned on me the other day that maybe the owner would be willing to ship. The answer is yes. Her prices are reasonable: averaging $2.50 for paperbacks. Also, they also have an e-mail address. I'm going there today, and I'll put together a list of some of what they've got, just to give you an idea. > > Also, I should say I was impressed with the very avid and thoughtful readership on our website, that a few of you were introspective readers, and some had difficulties getting books, owing to the situation you were in (another country, inaccesible stores, foreign exchange problems, etc.). Maybe I might be willing to help out in a few cases in some kind of way, like perhaps sending a few books to you from the bookstore. So, watch for my next message with the bookstore list (asap). > > Good reading to you! > Darius ===== ciao! > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Posters and Prints @ Art.com with state-of-the-art Custom Framing! http://us.click.yahoo.com/eB6_FD/h3AFAA/_ZuFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-778-1037798605-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Nov 20 05:27:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id FAA30979 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 05:27:39 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-778-1037798605-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Nov 2002 13:23:26 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 20 Nov 2002 13:23:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 53593 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 13:23:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Nov 2002 13:23:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r06.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.102) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 13:23:25 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id r.1be.14f9d6c5 (4184) for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 08:23:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1be.14f9d6c5.2b0ce6c6@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 10500 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 08:23:18 EST Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 285 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 584 Dear Darius, Hi! I live in France and I can usually get my hands on new books, by ordering on the net, and I think I have all of the old ones, but I used to live in Africa where it was much more difficult to get my hands on any books in English. So I'm sure that there are people out there who will be glad for your help. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-779-1037845320-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Nov 20 18:25:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA20934 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:25:42 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-779-1037845320-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2002 02:22:02 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 21 Nov 2002 02:21:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 56174 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 02:21:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2002 02:21:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blount.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.226) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 02:21:58 -0000 Received: from dialup-152-110.tnnas2.usit.net ([216.80.152.110] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Egyb-0000ki-00 for the-ekumen@Yahoogroups.com; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:21:57 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c29105$84ed3f80$6e9850d8@com> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "darius" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:27:19 -0600 Subject: [the-ekumen] Fw: books Reply-To: the-ekumen@Yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 126 ----- Original Message ----- From: darius To: the-ekumen@Yahoogroups Cc: Dave Awl@Yahoogroups Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:25 PM Subject: books This is the message you were possibly waiting for. I visited the bookstore, and below is a list of the LeGuin novels that she had on Monday, 11/18 2002.. I've visited the store many times, and can say that most of the books on this list are usually on the shelf, some in more than one copy. Here's the list: These are all paperbacks: A Wiazrd of Earthsea The Dispossessed Rocannon's World Planet of Exile Tomb of Atuan Lathe of Heaven The Word for World is Forest The Left Hand of Darkness The Eye of the Heron Three Hainish Novels(hardback edition) The bookstore is Bookman/Bookwoman Used Books, 1713 21st Avenue South, Nashville, Tenn 37212 Email/|Website: http://www.bookmanbookwoman.com They ship books, mostly in the US, but are willing to try overseas. Their prices are reasonable. Paperbacks average $2.50, hardbacks vary, mostly in the $12-$20 range. I remember one or two readers in South America that had great difficulties getting books for a variety of reasons, mostly around the issue of foreign exchange. I can't promise, but I may be able to help. Also, I find that book parcel post is sometimes less expensive that one would think, but it may take a while. Regards to you all - Darius [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-780-1037845536-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Nov 20 18:53:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA30469 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:53:01 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-780-1037845536-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2002 02:25:36 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 21 Nov 2002 02:25:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 12517 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 02:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2002 02:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blount.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.226) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 02:25:35 -0000 Received: from dialup-152-110.tnnas2.usit.net ([216.80.152.110] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Eh26-0005jL-00 for the-ekumen@Yahoogroups.com; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:25:34 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01c29106$063d30e0$6e9850d8@com> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "darius" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:30:56 -0600 Subject: [the-ekumen] Fw: books Reply-To: the-ekumen@Yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 129 ----- Original Message ----- From: darius To: the-ekumen@Yahoogroups.com Cc: DaveAwl@Yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:25 PM Subject: books This is the message you were possibly waiting for. I visited the bookstore, and below is a list of the LeGuin novels that she had on Monday, 11/18 2002.. I've visited the store many times, and can say that most of the books on this list are usually on the shelf, some in more than one copy. Here's the list: These are all paperbacks: A Wiazrd of Earthsea The Dispossessed Rocannon's World Planet of Exile Tomb of Atuan Lathe of Heaven The Word for World is Forest The Left Hand of Darkness The Eye of the Heron Three Hainish Novels(hardback edition) The bookstore is Bookman/Bookwoman Used Books, 1713 21st Avenue South, Nashville, Tenn 37212 Email/|Website: http://www.bookmanbookwoman.com They ship books, mostly in the US, but are willing to try overseas. Their prices are reasonable. Paperbacks average $2.50, hardbacks vary, mostly in the $12-$20 range. I remember one or two readers in South America that had great difficulties getting books for a variety of reasons, mostly around the issue of foreign exchange. I can't promise, but I may be able to help. Also, I find that book parcel post is sometimes less expensive that one would think, but it may take a while. Regards to you all - Darius [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-781-1037896110-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Nov 21 09:32:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA17191 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:32:05 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-781-1037896110-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2002 16:28:31 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 21 Nov 2002 16:28:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 76282 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 16:28:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2002 16:28:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO granger.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.148) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 16:28:28 -0000 Received: from dialup-159-93.tnmem2.usit.net ([216.80.159.93] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18EuBm-0003b6-00 for the-ekumen@Yahoogroups.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:28:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01c2917b$c79f3560$5d9f50d8@com> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "darius" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:33:51 -0600 Subject: [the-ekumen] Fw: books Reply-To: the-ekumen@Yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 262 ----- Original Message ----- From: darius To: the-ekumen@Yahoogroups Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:25 PM Subject: books This is the message you were possibly waiting for. I visited the bookstore, and below is a list of the LeGuin novels that she had on Monday, 11/18 2002.. I've visited the store many times, and can say that most of the books on this list are usually on the shelf, some in more than one copy. Here's the list: These are all paperbacks: A Wiazrd of Earthsea The Dispossessed Rocannon's World Planet of Exile Tomb of Atuan Lathe of Heaven The Word for World is Forest The Left Hand of Darkness The Eye of the Heron Three Hainish Novels(hardback edition) The bookstore is Bookman/Bookwoman Used Books, 1713 21st Avenue South, Nashville, Tenn 37212 Email/|Website: http://www.bookmanbookwoman.com They ship books, mostly in the US, but are willing to try overseas. Their prices are reasonable. Paperbacks average $2.50, hardbacks vary, mostly in the $12-$20 range. I remember one or two readers in South America that had great difficulties getting books for a variety of reasons, mostly around the issue of foreign exchange. I can't promise, but I may be able to help. Also, I find that book parcel post is sometimes less expensive that one would think, but it may take a while. Regards to you all - Darius [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Posters and Prints @ Art.com with state-of-the-art Custom Framing! http://us.click.yahoo.com/eB6_FD/h3AFAA/_ZuFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-782-1037896423-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Nov 21 09:10:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA08766 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:10:04 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-782-1037896423-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2002 16:33:43 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 21 Nov 2002 16:33:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 78607 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 16:33:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2002 16:33:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mclean.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.57) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 16:33:42 -0000 Received: from dialup-159-93.tnmem2.usit.net ([216.80.159.93] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18EuGr-0006kI-00 for the-ekumen@Yahoogroups.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:33:41 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c2917c$8304d760$5d9f50d8@com> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "darius" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:39:06 -0600 Subject: [the-ekumen] Fw: books Reply-To: the-ekumen@Yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 251 ----- Original Message ----- From: darius To: the-ekumen@Yahoogroups Cc: dthiemepop@Mindspring.com Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:25 PM Subject: books This is the message you were possibly waiting for. I visited the bookstore, and below is a list of the LeGuin novels that she had on Monday, 11/18 2002.. I've visited the store many times, and can say that most of the books on this list are usually on the shelf, some in more than one copy. Here's the list: These are all paperbacks: A Wiazrd of Earthsea The Dispossessed Rocannon's World Planet of Exile Tomb of Atuan Lathe of Heaven The Word for World is Forest The Left Hand of Darkness The Eye of the Heron Three Hainish Novels(hardback edition) The bookstore is Bookman/Bookwoman Used Books, 1713 21st Avenue South, Nashville, Tenn 37212 Email/|Website: http://www.bookmanbookwoman.com They ship books, mostly in the US, but are willing to try overseas. Their prices are reasonable. Paperbacks average $2.50, hardbacks vary, mostly in the $12-$20 range. I remember one or two readers in South America that had great difficulties getting books for a variety of reasons, mostly around the issue of foreign exchange. I can't promise, but I may be able to help. Also, I find that book parcel post is sometimes less expensive that one would think, but it may take a while. Regards to you all - Darius [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Shop for Posters and Prints @ Art.com with state-of-the-art Custom Framing! http://us.click.yahoo.com/lAE0qB/adBFAA/_ZuFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-783-1037897058-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Nov 21 10:06:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA28906 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:06:46 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-783-1037897058-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2002 16:44:18 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 21 Nov 2002 16:44:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 74920 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 16:44:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2002 16:44:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scrabble.freeuk.net) (212.126.144.6) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 16:44:17 -0000 Received: from du-040-0006.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.6] helo=Robins) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 18EuR5-0003Cu-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:44:16 +0000 Message-ID: <006d01c2917d$3a617440$06749ed9@Robins> To: References: <000901c2917c$8304d760$5d9f50d8@com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:44:14 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Fw: books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 279 now seem to have 4 copies of this message, what's going on? ----- Original Message ----- From: "darius" To: Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:39 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Fw: books > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: darius > To: the-ekumen@Yahoogroups > Cc: dthiemepop@Mindspring.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:25 PM > Subject: books > > > This is the message you were possibly waiting for. I visited the bookstore, and below is a list of the LeGuin novels that she had on Monday, 11/18 2002.. I've visited the store many times, and can say that most of the books on this list are usually on the shelf, some in more than one copy. Here's the list: These are all paperbacks: > A Wiazrd of Earthsea The Dispossessed > Rocannon's World Planet of Exile > Tomb of Atuan Lathe of Heaven > The Word for World is Forest The Left Hand of Darkness > The Eye of the Heron > > Three Hainish Novels(hardback edition) > > The bookstore is Bookman/Bookwoman Used Books, > 1713 21st Avenue South, Nashville, Tenn 37212 > Email/|Website: http://www.bookmanbookwoman.com > > They ship books, mostly in the US, but are willing to try overseas. Their prices are reasonable. Paperbacks average $2.50, hardbacks vary, mostly in the $12-$20 range. I remember one or two readers in South America that had great difficulties getting books for a variety of reasons, mostly around the issue of foreign exchange. > I can't promise, but I may be able to help. Also, I find that book parcel post is sometimes less expensive that one would think, but it may take a while. > > Regards to you all - Darius > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Shop for Over 100,000 Posters & Prints @ Art.com with Custom Framing! http://us.click.yahoo.com/qDdA9C/P5AFAA/_ZuFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-784-1037897735-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Nov 21 11:21:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.77]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA20136 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:21:05 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-784-1037897735-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2002 16:55:35 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 21 Nov 2002 16:55:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 98294 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 16:55:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2002 16:55:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO maynard.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.243) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 16:55:34 -0000 Received: from dialup-159-93.tnmem2.usit.net ([216.80.159.93] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Euc0-0003D1-00; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:55:32 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c2917f$90e695a0$5d9f50d8@com> To: Cc: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "darius" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:00:56 -0600 Subject: [the-ekumen] books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 301 Dave - I'm doing my best to get my message about the books and the bookstore up and running. The confusions include my computer crashing, my password spelled backwards on my ISP's server, and on and on. Worst is that the latest error messages tell me that apparently the mail server doesn't recognize my emailo address. Plus, on top of everything my mail-server didn't recognize Dave Awl! I think I'll counterattack by sending a copy of my memo concerning the books directly to you. Hopefully that will work while I try to decipher the paragraph of computer-langusge gobbledygook they sent to me masquerading as "errors." 'bye for now - Darius [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Posters and Prints @ Art.com with state-of-the-art Custom Framing! http://us.click.yahoo.com/eB6_FD/h3AFAA/_ZuFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-785-1037908270-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Nov 21 12:49:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA26714 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:49:44 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-785-1037908270-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2002 19:51:10 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 21 Nov 2002 19:51:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 48651 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 19:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2002 19:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 19:51:09 -0000 Received: from [216.80.74.67] (216-80-98-198.d.enteract.com [216.80.98.198]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C05868C; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:51:07 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000c01c29180$70c38b60$5d9f50d8@com> References: <000c01c29180$70c38b60$5d9f50d8@com> To: "darius" Cc: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Dave Awl X-Yahoo-Profile: dayvoll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:50:57 -0600 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Fw: books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 339 Darius wrote: > Dave - I'm doing my best to get my message about the books and the >bookstore up and running. Darius, your message about the books made it through to The Ekumen list -- several times in fact. So you don't have to worry about trying to send it anymore...you're coming through loud and clear! thanks, Dave -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ New from Hope and Nonthings Publishing... What the Sea Means: Poems, Stories & Monologues 1987-2002 by Dave Awl ---> Info: http://www.ocelotfactory.com/seameans ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Shop for Over 100,000 Posters & Prints @ Art.com with Custom Framing! http://us.click.yahoo.com/qDdA9C/P5AFAA/_ZuFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-786-1038007002-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Nov 22 16:35:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.83]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA17264 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:35:17 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-786-1038007002-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2002 23:16:42 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 22 Nov 2002 23:16:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 15840 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2002 23:16:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2002 23:16:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO granger.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.148) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 23:16:40 -0000 Received: from dialup-155-81.tnnas2.usit.net ([216.80.155.81] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18FN2M-0003lU-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:16:38 -0500 Message-ID: <002d01c2927d$fb6a2500$519b50d8@com> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Darius Thieme" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:22:08 -0600 Subject: Fw: [the-ekumen] Re: offer for books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 117 This message for "irrem". Okay, first of all, tell me your email address, else how am I going to contact you? If the server does recognize "irrem" it will simply reject my message & gum up the server. Next, first try contacting the bookstore in Nashville--you have their email address on my posting. If this doesn't work out, or if it seems you will have to spend dollars, which you don't have, send another posting to me, like you just did, this time including your email address. ciao - Darius ----- Original Message ----- From: irrem To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 4:10 PM Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: offer for books Well....I'm saying "Hi" ^.^ As a foreigner, and living in a not english-speaking country, I find often difficulties in the search of Le Guin books. I'm not sure if the offer you made is so simple...but if it's even remotely possible, count me on!I live in Italy, where Le Guin works aren't exactly unknown, simply impossible to obtain (most of them were printed time ago, and copies are hard to track) Paula --- In the-ekumen@y..., "MindSpring User" wrote: > Hopefully some of you read my offer, copied onto our website by our Webmaster. > Anyway, I'm going to repeat it here, and please RESPOND, say "hi", make suggestions , so I'll know if should do more, less, forget it, or whatever. > > I frequent a good local bookstore, which almost always has some LeGjuin works. > It just dawned on me the other day that maybe the owner would be willing to ship. The answer is yes. Her prices are reasonable: averaging $2.50 for paperbacks. Also, they also have an e-mail address. I'm going there today, and I'll put together a list of some of what they've got, just to give you an idea. > > Also, I should say I was impressed with the very avid and thoughtful readership on our website, that a few of you were introspective readers, and some had difficulties getting books, owing to the situation you were in (another country, inaccesible stores, foreign exchange problems, etc.). Maybe I might be willing to help out in a few cases in some kind of way, like perhaps sending a few books to you from the bookstore. So, watch for my next message with the bookstore list (asap). > > Good reading to you! > Darius ===== ciao! > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-787-1038007611-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Nov 22 15:41:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA31256 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:40:59 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-787-1038007611-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2002 23:26:51 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 22 Nov 2002 23:26:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 97793 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2002 23:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2002 23:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO granger.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.148) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 23:26:50 -0000 Received: from dialup-155-81.tnnas2.usit.net ([216.80.155.81] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18FNCC-0006JD-00; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:26:49 -0500 Message-ID: <003701c2927f$672253c0$519b50d8@com> To: Cc: References: <1be.14f9d6c5.2b0ce6c6@aol.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Darius Thieme" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:32:18 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 285 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 109 Judy, I have read your messages, and feel I know you -- I particularly remember your difficulties in finding folk who you could converse with in Paris in English about Le Guin. I spent some time in severaL countries in Africa sometime ago, doing scads of research before beginning a long teaching career here in Nashville. Anyway, I'll tell you what I just told the reader from Italy:"irrem." I would say tell your friends to contact the bookstore directly by email. It might just work. There are many folk here who have relatives in Africa. Maybe there's a hookup that the folk "on the other shore" can work out with them. Who knows what can be worked out? Tell them also to go ahead and cocntact me,too. My email is dthiemepop@Mindspring.com 'bye for now -- Darius ----- Original Message ----- From: judyldubois@aol.com To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 7:23 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 285 Dear Darius, Hi! I live in France and I can usually get my hands on new books, by ordering on the net, and I think I have all of the old ones, but I used to live in Africa where it was much more difficult to get my hands on any books in English. So I'm sure that there are people out there who will be glad for your help. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Posters and Prints @ Art.com with state-of-the-art Custom Framing! http://us.click.yahoo.com/eB6_FD/h3AFAA/_ZuFAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-788-1038148074-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Nov 24 06:27:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.78]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id GAA00762 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 06:27:57 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-788-1038148074-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2002 14:27:54 -0000 X-Sender: schwelle@libero.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 24 Nov 2002 14:27:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 71412 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 14:27:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2002 14:27:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 14:27:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.171] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2002 14:27:53 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "irrem" X-Originating-IP: 217.141.43.74 X-Yahoo-Profile: nonchiederci MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:27:53 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] E-mail request Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 Thank you very much, Darius! ^.^ My e-mail address (one of them) is : schwelle@libero.it. I will follow your advice and try to contact the bookshop. Paula To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-789-1039488558-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Dec 9 20:31:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id UAA15885 for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:31:38 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-789-1039488558-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2002 02:49:18 -0000 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Dec 2002 02:49:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 70281 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2002 02:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2002 02:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out003.verizon.net) (206.46.170.103) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2002 02:49:16 -0000 Received: from Zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.93.144]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20021210024916.FRSO21770.out003.verizon.net@Zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:49:16 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021209214437.01ca6018@incoming.verizon.net> X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out003.verizon.net from [64.222.93.144] at Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:49:15 -0600 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 21:49:31 -0500 Subject: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 461 Hi all -- Though it's more than a month old, I thought I'd pass along this URL for those who haven't seen it. It's a well-written review of *Tales from Earthsea* and *The Other Wind* as well as some comments about the earlier Earthsea books: http://www.spectator.co.uk/bookreview.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2002-10-19&id=1215 from chilly Vermont, ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-790-1039537948-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Dec 10 08:40:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id IAA05427 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:40:06 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-790-1039537948-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2002 16:32:28 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Dec 2002 16:32:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 73997 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2002 16:32:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2002 16:32:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.116) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2002 16:32:27 -0000 Received: from smtp2.Stanford.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBAGWQQ8013826 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:32:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from sls-258c (sls-258c.Stanford.EDU [171.64.212.237]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gBAGWPSj013822 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:32:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.20021210083103.00a1b800@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021209214437.01ca6018@incoming.verizon.net> From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:32:33 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 563 Thank you, Janice: that is quite a remarkable essay. I like the way it compares the Earthsea books to Tolkien's, contrasts them with Rowling's, and makes the case for Le Guin as a canonical author. David Bratman At 06:49 PM 12/9/2002 , Janice E. Dawley wrote: >Hi all -- > >Though it's more than a month old, I thought I'd pass along this URL for >those who haven't seen it. It's a well-written review of *Tales from >Earthsea* and *The Other Wind* as well as some comments about the earlier >Earthsea books: > >http://www.spectator.co.uk/bookreview.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2 >002-10-19&id=1215 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-791-1039561045-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Dec 10 19:52:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.104]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id TAA17452 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 19:52:38 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-791-1039561045-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2002 22:57:26 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Dec 2002 22:57:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 29661 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2002 22:57:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2002 22:57:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scrabble.freeuk.net) (212.126.144.6) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2002 22:57:24 -0000 Received: from du-040-0077.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.77] helo=oemcomputer) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 18LtJb-000Plr-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:57:23 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c2a09f$86d8e200$4d749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021209214437.01ca6018@incoming.verizon.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:57:33 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 695 Yes, well worth a read. I like 'She is quite a prolific author, and worth reading in bulk.' I'll drink to that. I thought the comment on the early Earthsea books being of adult weight were interesting. It's certainly true that I read and reread them, and particularly value The tombs of Atuan. But I think children can enjoy them too. There are a number of good children's books around which are worth reading by adults - for example Penelope Lively's House at Norham Gardens as well as the better known Pullmans and Potters. what does anyone else think? Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janice E. Dawley" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 2:49 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* > Hi all -- > > Though it's more than a month old, I thought I'd pass along this URL for > those who haven't seen it. It's a well-written review of *Tales from > Earthsea* and *The Other Wind* as well as some comments about the earlier > Earthsea books: > > http://www.spectator.co.uk/bookreview.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2 002-10-19&id=1215 > > from chilly Vermont, > > ----- > Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT > http://therem.net/ > Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head > "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, > with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-792-1039562187-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Dec 10 22:27:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id WAA05335 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:27:13 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-792-1039562187-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2002 23:16:39 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Dec 2002 23:16:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 63493 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2002 23:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2002 23:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2002 23:16:26 -0000 Received: from smtp1.Stanford.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBANGP0P007096 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:16:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from sls-258c (sls-258c.Stanford.EDU [171.64.212.237]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gBANGOQj007089 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:16:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.20021210151542.00a201e0@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001a01c2a09f$86d8e200$4d749ed9@oemcomputer> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021209214437.01ca6018@incoming.verizon.net> From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:16:32 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 713 At 02:57 PM 12/10/2002 , Hannah wrote: >I thought the comment on the early Earthsea books being of adult weight were >interesting. It's certainly true that I read and reread them, and >particularly value The tombs of Atuan. But I think children can enjoy them >too. There are a number of good children's books around which are worth >reading by adults - for example Penelope Lively's House at Norham Gardens as >well as the better known Pullmans and Potters. what does anyone else think? C.S. Lewis wrote that any book worth reading as a child is worth reading as an adult. - David Bratman To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-793-1039578670-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Dec 11 01:38:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.84]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id BAA21670 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 01:38:47 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-793-1039578670-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2002 03:54:18 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 03:51:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 40689 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 03:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 03:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp6.mindspring.com) (207.69.200.110) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 03:51:08 -0000 Received: from dialup-157-130.tnmem2.usit.net ([216.80.157.130] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Lxts-0004lZ-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:51:08 -0500 Message-ID: <004001c2a0c9$7d25dfe0$829d50d8@com> To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021209214437.01ca6018@incoming.verizon.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Darius Thieme" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 21:57:54 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 Janice Dawley: Thanks for the review reference. Also, would anybody care to chat about "Always Coming Home?" 'bye for now - Darius Thieme [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-794-1039578957-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Dec 10 22:47:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id WAA09756 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:47:34 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-794-1039578957-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2002 03:55:58 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 03:55:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 93761 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 03:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 03:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp6.mindspring.com) (207.69.200.110) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 03:55:57 -0000 Received: from dialup-157-130.tnmem2.usit.net ([216.80.157.130] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18LxyV-0007Wb-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:55:56 -0500 Message-ID: <006d01c2a0ca$2890a040$829d50d8@com> To: References: <4.1.20021210083103.00a1b800@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Darius Thieme" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:02:42 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 717 David Bratmen": Thanks for the review reference, and the comparative comments. Right now I'm plowing through "Always Coming Home." 'bye for now, Darius Thieme ----- Original Message ----- From: David S. Bratman To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* Thank you, Janice: that is quite a remarkable essay. I like the way it compares the Earthsea books to Tolkien's, contrasts them with Rowling's, and makes the case for Le Guin as a canonical author. David Bratman At 06:49 PM 12/9/2002 , Janice E. Dawley wrote: >Hi all -- > >Though it's more than a month old, I thought I'd pass along this URL for >those who haven't seen it. It's a well-written review of *Tales from >Earthsea* and *The Other Wind* as well as some comments about the earlier >Earthsea books: > >http://www.spectator.co.uk/bookreview.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2 >002-10-19&id=1215 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-795-1039582232-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Dec 10 20:50:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.91]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id UAA07290 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:50:40 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-795-1039582232-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2002 04:50:32 -0000 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 04:50:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 48730 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 04:50:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 04:50:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out003.verizon.net) (206.46.170.103) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 04:50:31 -0000 Received: from Zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.82.202]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20021211045030.PKGO21770.out003.verizon.net@Zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:50:30 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021210231530.01cc6520@incoming.verizon.net> X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <4.1.20021210151542.00a201e0@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> References: <001a01c2a09f$86d8e200$4d749ed9@oemcomputer> <5.1.0.14.2.20021209214437.01ca6018@incoming.verizon.net> X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out003.verizon.net from [64.222.82.202] at Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:50:30 -0600 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:50:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 703 >At 02:57 PM 12/10/2002 , Hannah wrote: > >I thought the comment on the early Earthsea books being of adult weight were > >interesting. It's certainly true that I read and reread them, and > >particularly value The tombs of Atuan. But I think children can enjoy them > >too. There are a number of good children's books around which are worth > >reading by adults - for example Penelope Lively's House at Norham Gardens as > >well as the better known Pullmans and Potters. what does anyone else think? And at 03:16 PM 12/10/2002 -0800, David Bratman wrote: >C.S. Lewis wrote that any book worth reading as a child is worth reading as >an adult. Ah, but then you get into the question of what "worth reading" means. I'm fairly sure that Lewis didn't mean that anything you liked as a child would also appeal to you as an adult. He probably meant that the books you *do* still like are the worthwhile (i.e. classic, timeless) ones. I didn't much like Le Guin's writing when I was younger -- I tended toward pulpier, more romantic stuff like Robin McKinley's Damar novels and Anne McCaffrey's Pern books (and, since I'm in the Mc area of the alphabet, I'll add Madeleine L'Engle too). Compared to theirs, Le Guin's style was sere and off-putting. Little did I know how I would fall for it once I could understand its subtleties. A couple of other wonderful writers whose work is most often billed as children's or young adult fiction are Diana Wynne Jones and Alan Garner. The former is very entertaining for young and old alike, with added bonuses for the sympathetic adult; the latter ranges from eerily evocative (*Elidor*) to almost insanely brilliant (*Red Shift*). And then there's H.M. Hoover, who is alas out of print. And Nancy Farmer, whose SF novel *The House of the Scorpion* just won the National Book Award for Young People's Literature. And Philip Pullman, and Jan Mark, and David Almond, etc. There is so very much great stuff marketed as "young adult" these days, it boggles the mind. But you have to know to look for it. The prejudice against anything that could be taken as immature or escapist for adults is very strong. Resist it, and you will be rewarded! ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-796-1039582597-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Dec 10 21:30:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.93]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id VAA21828 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 21:30:23 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-796-1039582597-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2002 04:56:37 -0000 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 04:56:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 60949 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 04:56:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 04:56:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop018.verizon.net) (206.46.170.212) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 04:56:36 -0000 Received: from Zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.82.202]) by pop018.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20021211045635.LSYW4558.pop018.verizon.net@Zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:56:35 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021210235128.01cedcd0@incoming.verizon.net> X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021210231530.01cc6520@incoming.verizon.net> References: <4.1.20021210151542.00a201e0@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> <001a01c2a09f$86d8e200$4d749ed9@oemcomputer> <5.1.0.14.2.20021209214437.01ca6018@incoming.verizon.net> X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at pop018.verizon.net from [64.222.82.202] at Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:56:35 -0600 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:56:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 706 At 11:50 PM 12/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Robin McKinley's Damar novels and Anne >McCaffrey's Pern books (and, since I'm in the Mc area of the alphabet, I'll >add Madeleine L'Engle too) I just realized that this makes no sense whatsoever! My subconscious thought it did somehow. Time to get some sleep... ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-797-1039586736-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Dec 11 00:28:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id AAA06187 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:28:11 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-797-1039586736-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2002 06:05:36 -0000 X-Sender: mayaward@yahoo.com.au X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 06:05:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 96898 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 06:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 06:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web21107.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.227.109) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 06:05:35 -0000 Message-ID: <20021211060535.25775.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [210.50.248.89] by web21107.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:05:35 EST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <004001c2a0c9$7d25dfe0$829d50d8@com> From: =?iso-8859-1?q?maya=20ward?= X-Yahoo-Profile: mayaward MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:05:35 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 Dear Darius I joined this group to do simply that; always coming home is one of the major influences of my life, and my favourite le guin. where shall we begin? bye for now, Maya (Melbourne, Australia) Darius Thieme wrote:Janice Dawley: Thanks for the review reference. Also, would anybody care to chat about "Always Coming Home?" 'bye for now - Darius Thieme [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Greetings - Send your seasons greetings online this year! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-798-1039597342-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Dec 11 01:02:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.73]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id BAA12707 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 01:02:23 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-798-1039597342-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2002 09:02:22 -0000 X-Sender: robins@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 09:02:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 64630 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 09:02:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 09:02:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scrabble.freeuk.net) (212.126.144.6) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 09:02:21 -0000 Received: from du-040-0181.access.clara.net ([217.158.116.181] helo=oemcomputer) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 18M2l2-000C2P-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:02:20 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01c2a0f4$09b7cca0$b5749ed9@oemcomputer> To: References: <001a01c2a09f$86d8e200$4d749ed9@oemcomputer> <5.1.0.14.2.20021209214437.01ca6018@incoming.verizon.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20021210231530.01cc6520@incoming.verizon.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Robins- one of" X-Yahoo-Profile: elsiepiddock MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:02:23 -0000 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 when i was at Sussex University in the early seventies my friend Janice and I started a 'fantasy and children's book club' on this sort of premise, and that is where I got to know Alan Garner. I do find he has dated a bit, particularly Elidor, but I still have them and must go back. It was my daughter Jenny who introduced e to Diana Wynne Jones' wonderful book 'the tale of time city' which she read at primary school (i think that is called grade school in the US) but I haven't found the other books of hers that I have read as good. Admittedly when I took the Wizard of Earthsea on holiday to read to my daughters when they were I guess about 11 and 7 they were a bit lukewarm about it. However, my daughter Jenny who is now 17 has enjoyed a number of UKLs short stories which I have pushed her way, in particular the Birthday of the World collection. Our whole family including my 13 year old daughter Hazel have also read voraciously the Katherine Kerr Deverry books, which may not be quite in UKL class but have a more complex view of social behaviour than Anne McCaffrey - although hers are also a good read - I particularly enjoy the Dragonsinger and Killishandra - here examples of books written for adults that can be enjoyed by older children. And of course Winnie the Pooh and Alice in Wonderland are often more enjoyed by adults than children. When my children were learning to read, I came across the theory that the best books for parents to read with their children are those that can be enjoyed on all sorts of levels, so that the parent gets different things out of them than the child but shares their enjoyment. Enough of this. I'm supposed to be working Hannah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janice E. Dawley" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 4:50 AM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* > > And at 03:16 PM 12/10/2002 -0800, David Bratman wrote: > >C.S. Lewis wrote that any book worth reading as a child is worth reading as > >an adult. > > Ah, but then you get into the question of what "worth reading" means. I'm > fairly sure that Lewis didn't mean that anything you liked as a child would > also appeal to you as an adult. He probably meant that the books you *do* > still like are the worthwhile (i.e. classic, timeless) ones. > > I didn't much like Le Guin's writing when I was younger -- I tended toward > pulpier, more romantic stuff like Robin McKinley's Damar novels and Anne > McCaffrey's Pern books (and, since I'm in the Mc area of the alphabet, I'll > add Madeleine L'Engle too). Compared to theirs, Le Guin's style was sere > and off-putting. Little did I know how I would fall for it once I could > understand its subtleties. > > A couple of other wonderful writers whose work is most often billed as > children's or young adult fiction are Diana Wynne Jones and Alan Garner. > The former is very entertaining for young and old alike, with added bonuses > for the sympathetic adult; the latter ranges from eerily evocative > (*Elidor*) to almost insanely brilliant (*Red Shift*). And then there's > H.M. Hoover, who is alas out of print. And Nancy Farmer, whose SF novel > *The House of the Scorpion* just won the National Book Award for Young > People's Literature. And Philip Pullman, and Jan Mark, and David Almond, etc. > > There is so very much great stuff marketed as "young adult" these days, it > boggles the mind. But you have to know to look for it. The prejudice > against anything that could be taken as immature or escapist for adults is > very strong. Resist it, and you will be rewarded! > > ----- > Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT > http://therem.net/ > Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head > "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, > with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-799-1039609557-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Dec 11 05:02:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.73]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id FAA29017 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 05:02:54 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-799-1039609557-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2002 12:25:57 -0000 X-Sender: schwelle@libero.it X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 12:25:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 49864 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 12:25:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 12:25:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 12:25:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.161] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2002 12:25:56 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021209214437.01ca6018@incoming.verizon.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "irrem " X-Originating-IP: 157.138.217.36 X-Yahoo-Profile: nonchiederci MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 12:25:54 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, "Janice E. Dawley" wrote: > Hi all -- > > Though it's more than a month old, I thought I'd pass along this URL for > those who haven't seen it. It's a well-written review of *Tales from > Earthsea* and *The Other Wind* as well as some comments about the earlier > Earthsea books: > > http://www.spectator.co.uk/bookreview.php3? table=old§ion=current&issue=2002-10-19&id=1215 > > from chilly Vermont, > > ----- > Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT > http://therem.net/ > Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head > "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, > with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick The review is very interesting.Even in the parts you disagree with, the reviewer presents his reasons (tough I'm no less convinced that The bones of the earth is a story with a deep meaning). Since there are some years between me and my younger brother, when I chose what books give him, I tended toward stories that he could still enjoy growing... time proved me right, so one of his Christmas/birthday/moody gifts will be The left hand of darkness and The winds twelve quarters.We (he and me) cannot understand the difference between children and adult literature.. in our point of view, every enjoiable book *needs* to have a meaning, and every book with a meaning *needs* to be well written...and it's possible only if there are more layers of signifiance, more levels of reading. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-800-1039612468-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Dec 11 05:49:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.93]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id FAA05591 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 05:49:22 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-800-1039612468-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2002 13:14:28 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 13:14:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 45394 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 13:14:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 13:14:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m08.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.163) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 13:14:27 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id r.173.12be1952 (16633) for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:14:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <173.12be1952.2b28942c@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 10500 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:14:20 EST Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 291 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 Dear Everyone, Just a few off the cuff comments about things that were said in Digest Numb= er=20 291, before I get on with the work I'm supposed to be doing. I think, and= =20 somewhere Ursula has said something similar, writing good, worthwhile books= =20 for children is much more difficult than writing for adults. It seems to=20 come back to me that someone well-meaning person remarked that it must be=20 easier to write for children and she answered, sure, about as easy as tryin= g=20 to bring them up. I'm sure the secret is writing with children in mind=20 without writing down to them. I definitely agree that all of the Earthsea= =20 novels are worth reading, the only thing that puts any of them into the=20 "young adult" category is the age of the protagonists. I like the idea of discussing Always Coming Home. There's a lot to say=20 there. Has anyone remarked how similar it is in some ways to her father's= =20 Handbook on the Indians of California?=20=20 I also want to vote for Le Guin as a canonical author and another YES!=20 concerning The House at Norham Gardens by Penelope Lively. I was amazed at= =20 all the titles that came up that I haven't heard of, it's great to know tha= t=20 there's so many good books out there. The French Magazine Litt=E9raire has just published an article about Le Gui= n.=20=20 Would any one be interested in a translation? Very few French people have= =20 discovered her, very few of them have any clear idea of what fantasy=20 literature is about. They think it started and stopped with Stephen King. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From sentto-2266408-802-1039633754-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Dec 11 18:23:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA03158 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:23:46 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-802-1039633754-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2002 19:09:14 -0000 X-Sender: Helene.Escudie@poleuropeen.u-strasbg.fr X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 19:09:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 24184 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 19:09:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 19:09:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1.u-strasbg.fr) (130.79.200.1) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 19:09:13 -0000 Received: from bes.u-strasbg.fr (bes.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.200.2]) by ns1.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id gBBJ9CRW052494 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:09:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from poleuropeen.u-strasbg.fr (rtc3.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.1.3]) by bes.u-strasbg.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22789 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:09:12 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3DF78DEC.8EB00727@poleuropeen.u-strasbg.fr> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com References: <173.12be1952.2b28942c@aol.com> X-Antivirus: scanned by sophos at u-strasbg.fr From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E9l=E8ne=20Escudi=E9?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:11:41 +0100 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 291 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 225 Dear Judy, I am French and I am very much interested in knowing which n° of the Magazine Litteraire published an article about UKLG. Could you please give me a hint? Thanks a lot. Bye Helene judyldubois@aol.com wrote: > Dear Everyone, > > Just a few off the cuff comments about things that were said in Digest Number > 291, before I get on with the work I'm supposed to be doing. I think, and > somewhere Ursula has said something similar, writing good, worthwhile books > for children is much more difficult than writing for adults. It seems to > come back to me that someone well-meaning person remarked that it must be > easier to write for children and she answered, sure, about as easy as trying > to bring them up. I'm sure the secret is writing with children in mind > without writing down to them. I definitely agree that all of the Earthsea > novels are worth reading, the only thing that puts any of them into the > "young adult" category is the age of the protagonists. > > I like the idea of discussing Always Coming Home. There's a lot to say > there. Has anyone remarked how similar it is in some ways to her father's > Handbook on the Indians of California? > > I also want to vote for Le Guin as a canonical author and another YES! > concerning The House at Norham Gardens by Penelope Lively. I was amazed at > all the titles that came up that I haven't heard of, it's great to know that > there's so many good books out there. > > The French Magazine Littéraire has just published an article about Le Guin. > Would any one be interested in a translation? Very few French people have > discovered her, very few of them have any clear idea of what fantasy > literature is about. They think it started and stopped with Stephen King. > > Judy > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-803-1039637140-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Dec 11 17:34:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA18067 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:34:47 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-803-1039637140-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2002 20:05:40 -0000 X-Sender: the_last_naiad@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 20:05:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 73352 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 20:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 20:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.9.10) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 20:05:39 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 12:05:39 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.1 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:05:39 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2002 20:05:39.0438 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD28C0E0:01C2A150] From: "Jenn Martin" X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.1] X-Yahoo-Profile: wateryone MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:05:39 +1300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 216 Of course we would like to chat about Always Coming Home! Lord knows I've tried before :) Is it you that's very interested in the idea of sustainable architecture in Le Guin's writing? Personally, the thing I find most interesting about Always Coming Home is the experiential nature of her 'utopia', the way the people of the valley don't just live in a sustainable way, they experience everything around them accutely. I love the way children who draw maps of the valley include every tree and every stone. I'm also very interested in the role of Pandora in the work. >From: "Darius Thieme" >Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* >Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 21:57:54 -0600 > >Janice Dawley: Thanks for the review reference. >Also, would anybody care to chat about "Always Coming Home?" > >'bye for now - Darius Thieme > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-804-1039637837-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Dec 11 16:49:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA32364 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:49:44 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-804-1039637837-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2002 20:17:17 -0000 X-Sender: the_last_naiad@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 20:17:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 9319 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 20:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 20:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.9.114) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 20:17:15 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 12:17:15 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.1 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:17:15 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2002 20:17:15.0908 (UTC) FILETIME=[4C49A440:01C2A152] From: "Jenn Martin" X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.1] X-Yahoo-Profile: wateryone MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:17:15 +1300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin and YA Fiction Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 211 Just quickly... I read a very interesting young adult work recently by Jan mark called Eclipse of the Century that was dedicated to Le Guin. Now... In my mind, the best children's books are the ones that work for children and adults because they work on two levels, I know I'm posting to the wrong list here... but look at Russell Hoban's Frances and Gloria books. They are wonderful for children, but parents can smile at certain subtext, and also at the imaginative thoughts of little Frances, who you could call 'grasshopper'. sometimes she's that Zen. The thing that always interests me about young adult fiction, specifically, is how very harrowing it can be. It's a reading group that deals with all thos realisations about -life-. As dumb as that sounds. And one thing I really like about Always Coming Home, is that even though it's an adult book, is has certain young adult themes, in that it's a Bildungsroman of sorts. Other Bildungsroman's in Science Fiction that I really like are Growing Up Weightless by John M. Ford and Orbital Ressonanance by John Barnes. I think Science Fiction and Fantasy are great genres for young adult fiction, non because of the romantic soccociations, but because it opens up the possibility for new worlds to children whose lives are changing because they are growing up and turning into adults. As the world they live in changes and is revealed to them through their increased experiences, the fiction they read opens up new worlds as well. I know that's not very well phrased, but hopefully you know what I mean. Le Guin's great at it. And I think part of the reason we still read these books when we're adults is because they are new when we first read them. but once we've grown up, they are almost fully recognisable. We read them for nostalgia, but also for instructiion, and hope. blah. Sorry about that rant. Jenn >From: "David S. Bratman" >Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com >To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* >Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:16:32 -0800 > >At 02:57 PM 12/10/2002 , Hannah wrote: > > >I thought the comment on the early Earthsea books being of adult weight >were > >interesting. It's certainly true that I read and reread them, and > >particularly value The tombs of Atuan. But I think children can enjoy >them > >too. There are a number of good children's books around which are worth > >reading by adults - for example Penelope Lively's House at Norham Gardens >as > >well as the better known Pullmans and Potters. what does anyone else >think? > >C.S. Lewis wrote that any book worth reading as a child is worth reading as >an adult. > >- David Bratman > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-805-1039671206-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Dec 11 23:56:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.87]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id XAA15746 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 23:56:43 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-805-1039671206-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2002 05:35:26 -0000 X-Sender: jdawley@bellatlantic.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 12 Dec 2002 05:33:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 92637 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2002 04:04:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2002 04:04:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out003.verizon.net) (206.46.170.103) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2002 04:04:20 -0000 Received: from Zion.bellatlantic.net ([64.222.82.132]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20021212040419.YOAN21770.out003.verizon.net@Zion.bellatlantic.net> for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:04:19 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021211222117.01cc8dd0@incoming.verizon.net> X-Sender: jdawley@incoming.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001c01c2a0f4$09b7cca0$b5749ed9@oemcomputer> References: <001a01c2a09f$86d8e200$4d749ed9@oemcomputer> <5.1.0.14.2.20021209214437.01ca6018@incoming.verizon.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20021210231530.01cc6520@incoming.verizon.net> X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out003.verizon.net from [64.222.82.132] at Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:04:19 -0600 From: "Janice E. Dawley" X-Yahoo-Profile: janicedawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 23:04:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 264 At 09:02 AM 12/11/2002 +0000, Hannah wrote: >when i was at Sussex University in the early seventies my friend Janice and >I started a 'fantasy and children's book club' on this sort of premise, and >that is where I got to know Alan Garner. I do find he has dated a bit, >particularly Elidor, but I still have them and must go back. Have you read any of Garner's more recent fiction? I have purchased a copy of *Strandloper*, but haven't read it yet. I'm also interested in the Stone Book Quartet. So far, my favorite of his books is *The Owl Service*. >It was my daughter Jenny who introduced e to Diana Wynne Jones' >wonderful book 'the tale of time city' which she read at primary school (i >think that is called grade school in the US) but I haven't found the other >books of hers that I have read as good. Interesting. *A Tale of Time City* is one of the very few books by DWJ that I actively dislike. Too many overly convenient coincidences and poor characterization. IMO, the best of her books (though I haven't read them all yet) are *Witch Week*, *Hexwood* and *Fire and Hemlock*. Which others have you tried? >Our whole family including my 13 year >old daughter Hazel have also read voraciously the Katherine Kerr Deverry >books, which may not be quite in UKL class but have a more complex view of >social behaviour than Anne McCaffrey - although hers are also a good read - >I particularly enjoy the Dragonsinger and Killishandra - here examples of >books written for adults that can be enjoyed by older children. As I understand it, McCaffrey's *Dragonsinger* wasn't written for adults -- it and the other two books in the "Harper Hall" trilogy were intended for teens, in contrast to the "Dragonrider" series (*Dragonflight*, *Dragonquest*, etc.) that features much more blatant violent and sexual elements. Which did not stop me from reading them, of course. I loved them all when I was in junior high, but alas, I found they really didn't wear well. Le Guin, on the other hand, just gets better and better. I recently reread *The Dispossessed* and was awed by it in so many ways -- what an incredible book. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-806-1039705749-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Dec 12 07:09:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA21971 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 07:09:13 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-806-1039705749-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2002 15:09:10 -0000 X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 12 Dec 2002 15:09:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 46965 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2002 15:09:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2002 15:09:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.151) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2002 15:09:08 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA28808 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:21:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200212121521.KAA28808@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:08:55 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <173.12be1952.2b28942c@aol.com> from "judyldubois@aol.com" at Dec 11, 2002 08:14:20 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:08:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 291 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 306 judyldubois@aol.com scripsit: > The French Magazine Littéraire has just published an article about Le Guin. > Would any one be interested in a translation? I'm not sure if you are offering to do a translation or requesting one. If the former, please do it and share it with us -- I'm sure everyone would be interested in it. -- John Cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com http://www.reutershealth.com "Mr. Lane, if you ever wish anything that I can do, all you will have to do will be to send me a telegram asking and it will be done." "Mr. Hearst, if you ever get a telegram from me asking you to do anything, you can put the telegram down as a forgery." To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-807-1039722050-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Dec 12 11:40:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA23945 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:40:55 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-807-1039722050-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2002 19:40:50 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 12 Dec 2002 19:40:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 45806 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2002 19:40:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2002 19:40:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r04.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.100) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2002 19:40:49 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id r.160.1865ced1 (4262) for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:40:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <160.1865ced1.2b2a4032@aol.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 10500 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:40:34 EST Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 292 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 389 About the Le Guin article in the French Magazine Litt=E9raire, I'm willing = to=20 do a translation, but not tonight. I'll try to post it in a couple of days= .=20=20 Sorry, I don't have the magazine here to tell you the number of the issue,= =20 but I'll be sure and mention it next time. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From sentto-2266408-808-1039803865-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Dec 13 10:24:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA31139 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:24:29 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-808-1039803865-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2002 18:24:25 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 13 Dec 2002 18:24:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 36089 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2002 18:24:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Dec 2002 18:24:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO maynard.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.243) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Dec 2002 18:24:24 -0000 Received: from dialup-153-175.tnnas2.usit.net ([216.80.153.175] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18MuU1-0008LT-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:24:22 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01c2a2d5$d5714820$af9950d8@com> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Darius Thieme" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:31:19 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 640 Yes, yes & yes-- I'm not particularly interested in the architecture. Firstly, I have a "wonder;" I wonder why she describes what sounds very much like an imagined southwest Indian cuture (with a mix of Hopi, Apache & Navaho elements) and places them in the distant future in northern California. Obviously, I can't speak for ULG. This caused me a bunch of confused reactions. Then, after going further & further into the book, I said, more or less, "what the Hell, it's her book & her world. Maybe I should just read it like that." So that's what I've been doing. Which means that I've been going back & forth in the book making & remaking "linkages." I have found the book, at times, not too rewarding and not up to her earlier works. The folk tales are all very intriguing, as are her definitions,explanations and glossary. I have also wound up thinking that I wish she had recast it in the past, looking to establish the plot, characters, etc. in the southwest, maybe going back much further & exploring possible roots -- of course using lots of her fertile imagination-- in Siberia. We note, today, several interesting connections between present-day bird migration patterns and the Siberia-crossing hypotheses. What do you think of that? I'll be waiting to see what you have to add 'bye & happy holidays-- Darius thieme ----- Original Message ----- From: Jenn Martin To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home Of course we would like to chat about Always Coming Home! Lord knows I've tried before :) Is it you that's very interested in the idea of sustainable architecture in Le Guin's writing? Personally, the thing I find most interesting about Always Coming Home is the experiential nature of her 'utopia', the way the people of the valley don't just live in a sustainable way, they experience everything around them accutely. I love the way children who draw maps of the valley include every tree and every stone. I'm also very interested in the role of Pandora in the work. >From: "Darius Thieme" >Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Le Guin Review in *The Spectator* >Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 21:57:54 -0600 > >Janice Dawley: Thanks for the review reference. >Also, would anybody care to chat about "Always Coming Home?" > >'bye for now - Darius Thieme > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-809-1039864098-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Dec 14 03:08:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.65]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id DAA07426 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2002 03:08:19 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-809-1039864098-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2002 11:08:18 -0000 X-Sender: Judyldubois@aol.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 14 Dec 2002 11:08:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 1957 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2002 11:08:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2002 11:08:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m08.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.163) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2002 11:08:17 -0000 Received: from Judyldubois@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id r.ca.16007ad3 (4426) for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2002 06:08:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows FR sub 10500 From: judyldubois@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: judithdubois8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 06:08:13 EST Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Digest Number 294 Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 113 Dear Friends, This is a translation of the review of THE LATHE OF HEAVEN which appeared i= n=20 the December 2002 issue of "magazine litt=E9raire". "The Ramirez Scale" The Other Side Of Dreams by Ursula Le Guin translated from American by Henry-Luc Planchat Editions Livre de Poche, 5 euros Like the Richter scale, the Ramirez scale measures how strong an=20 earthquake a human being may represent for society. Whether you are=20 extraverted or introverted, dominating or submissive, creative or=20 destructive. Once George Orr has taken all the long and subtle tests, he=20 learns that he is always at the balance point, that he is abnormally normal= .=20=20 His peculiar state of poise results in a holistic adjustment so perfect tha= t=20 he represents the ideal person. In phase with the harmonies of society, his dreams are able to affect t= he=20 history of the world. What a responsibility for a humble employee who, unt= il=20 it happens, never knows what is going to be changed by his dreams, whether= =20 it's the problem of overpopulation, pollution, an extraterrestrial invasion= ,=20 or merely a wall mural of Mount Hood which becomes a picture of a stallion. So Orr tries to refuse it, for the power and its effects, of which he=20 alone is aware, make him suffer terribly. His mind contains the=20 contradictory memories of all the yesterdays and days before which no longe= r=20 exist. And he is the only one who remembers. How can he lead a normal lif= e=20 among the tangled threads of so many different worlds, where nothing is lik= e=20 it used to be? How can he love Heather Lelach, who knows him, who no longe= r=20 knows him, who has a vague memory of him? Above all, how can he escape=20 Haber, the strange psychiatrist to whom Orr has been sent for voluntary=20 therapeutic treatment? For the psychiatrist has very precise ideas about=20 what utopia should be, ideas that he wants to realize by using his patient'= s=20 gift.=20=20 With this rich theme to mine, Ursula Le Guin has written the most=20 beautifully sober novel possible, undeniably her masterpiece. Her inspired= =20 text concerns the power of dreams, an aquarium in the night where cloudy=20 thoughts materialize as the impermanent fish of potentiality. It concerns= =20 how to use the reality against which the dreamer bangs his head so often=20 while he works out, or fails to work out, his existential fulfillment. It= =20 concerns a man's power of decision over his fate and the fate of his=20 descendants, the philosophical incompatibility of remorse and war, the=20 eschatological contradiction between the concept of religion and the concep= t=20 of punishment, and it concerns how practical politics are opposed, material= ly=20 and spiritually, to the idea of liberty. This book is the ultimate metaphor for the way a science fiction writer= =20 works. He operates on reality with supremely efficient doses of imaginatio= n,=20 altering historical and scientific facts, changing the shape of real events= =20 to fit hypothetical conjectures. He speculates about a future that he neve= r=20 ceases trying to have us accept, while his writing changes its criteria. = =20 Like science, science fiction is the laboratory of ephemeral truths.=20=20 Reprinted in French for the third time since 1975, The Other Side of Dreams= =20 is the only novel that I regret not having written. Philippe Curval * Translator's note As I worked on this, I realized that I may have stuck my neck out, for Mr.= =20 Curval's language is often subtle and abstract. Having a rather Turtlish=20 character, I wish to repeat what I always say to my students. A translatio= n=20 is always one possible translation among many, and a translator should not= =20 translate the words, but the ideas.=20=20 I have tried to be faithful to Mr. Curval's ideas. Judith Dubois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From sentto-2266408-810-1039926606-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Dec 14 20:30:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id UAA00883 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2002 20:30:14 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-810-1039926606-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 04:30:06 -0000 X-Sender: shevek@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 15 Dec 2002 04:30:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 24019 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2002 04:30:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2002 04:30:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.69) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2002 04:30:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.171] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 04:30:04 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "takver_oz " X-Originating-IP: 203.123.64.150 X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 04:30:02 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: anthropological & family influences Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 196 I found Always Coming Home much more reflective reading, and perhaps insightful into Le Guin's own family background, and of anthropology and indigenous culture as an influence on her writing. Judy asked a question in March: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-ekumen/message/584 > Has anyone else thought that ALWAYS COMING HOME is in many ways > very similar to her father's HANDBOOK OF THE INDIANS OF > CALIFORNIA? That it could have been a model for the book's > structure? I haven't seen the handbook so I can't comment specifically... The Summer Retreat property in the Napa Valley where Ursula grew up was called by the family "Kishamish" then later shortened to "Kish". (Kishamish was the name of an invented giant - p140 'Alfred Kroeber A personal configuration') Perhaps this name is the inspiration of the Kesh in 'Always Coming Home'. I think the child hood adventures of exploring the property and surrounding landscape provided much "compost" material for "Always Coming Home". That and the stories around the dinner table and campfire from her parents and visiting anthropology students. Perhaps metaphorically, the Yahi come alive again in the Kesh of Always Coming Home. Has anyone else considered this? I have also been interested in the story of Ishi and its influence on Ursula Le Guin. Ishi never divulged the true name of himself, or any other members of his people. "Ishi" was not his tribal name, but a word meaning "man" in Yahi. Because of tribal prohibition against using one's own name, Ishi stopped using this word after he realized that others were treating it as his name. (see http://www.cateweb.org/CA_Authors/Kroeber.html) Theodora Kroeber by Janice Albert The biography of Ishi (Ishi in Two Worlds, 1960) was written by Theodora Kroeber, Le Guin's mother, many years after Ishi's death from tuberculosis. Ishi was popularly considered 'the last wild indian in North America' when he stumbled into western civilisation at the limits of fear and exhaustion in 1911. He was to spend the last five years of his life with anthroplogists, Waterman and Alfred Kroeber (Le Guin's father), at the Museum of anthropology in San Fransisco. Afred Kroeber's interaction and friendship with Ishi occurred 1911-1916, many years before Ursula was born. But Ishi's friendship had a profound impact on Kroeber. In an attempt to stop an autopsy on his friend he wrote: "Science can go to hell. We propose to stand by our friends." Unfortunately this letter was too late and an autopsy was performed and Ishi's brain was removed. Ishi's body was cremated, according to the custom of Ishi's people along with some items treasured by Ishi and to 'sustain' him in his final journey. "After Ishi's death, Kroeber went into psychoanalysis for two years before returning to his work. I believe he was doing some serious soul-searching about the ethics of his work. Even though he went on to become the first great California anthropologist, he never in his lifetime published another word about Ishi, and when he spoke of him it was "with feelings of deep loss". (see http://www.thebicyclingguitarist.net/ishi/ MEDIA PORTRAYAL AND ANTHROPOLOGISTS' TREATMENT OF ISHI, THE LAST YAHI by Chris Watson Theodora took on the task of researching and writing Ishi's biography in the 1950's, and was able to discuss and correct her work with Alfred Kroeber, although to him much of it was "the stuff of human agony from whose immediacy he could not sufficiently distance himself." Ishi's biography is a very powerful and poignant story about colonisation from a victim's point of view. I have no idea how much Ursula Le Guin absorbed from the story of Ishi, but certainly her father's work as an anthropologist has given her an ability to question and examine human nature and society, often from several different points of view. Some References by Theodora Kroeber: * Alfred Kroeber A Personal Configuration, (1970) * Ishi in Two Worlds, (1961) Theodora Kroeber also wrote a version called 'Ishi, Last of his Tribe'. Her book, 'The Inland Whale' (1959), contains 9 stories retold from California Indian Legends, all containing a female central charcter - an interesting read and quite unusual for its time with its focus on women characters. In 1978 a Hollywood television movie was made of Ishi's story - 'Ishi Last of his Tribe', based on a script by Dalton & Christopher Trumbo (Dalton Trumbo died during the production of the movie) and starring Dennis Weaver. It is not the usual sort of western - and it conveys the powerful and sad emotions of the book in personalising the destruction of an indigenous culture. It is of course a Hollywood dramatisation but scripted with some sensitivity by veteran screen writer Dalton Trumbo: famed for being part of the Hollywood Ten - blacklisted and jailed By the House of Unamerican activities under Senator Joseph McCarthy. The movie is definitley worthwhile seeing. (see a bio of Dalton Trumbo at http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/trumbo.htm ) My apologies for this long post with lots of digressions, but I think Le Guin's family background is important for examining her compost heap of ideas, especially as regards Always Coming Home. -- with solidarity Takver Radical Tradition, an anarchist and radical Australasian History Page http://www.takver.com/history/index.htm Visit Anarres Books - http://www.anarres.org.au To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-811-1039934654-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Dec 14 22:44:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id WAA05296 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:44:22 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-811-1039934654-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 06:44:14 -0000 X-Sender: shevek@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 15 Dec 2002 06:44:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 76196 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2002 06:44:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2002 06:44:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2002 06:44:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.157] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 06:44:13 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "takver_oz " X-Originating-IP: 203.123.64.150 X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 06:44:12 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Young Childrens Books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 213 Judy mentioned in a previous post that "writing good, worthwhile books for children is much more difficult than writing for adults." One of the remarkable features of Le Guin's talent has been her appeal and creative writing for different age groups. About the only age group which she doesn't seem to have a flair for is the very young: 1-3 year olds, who generally require, in my parental experience, lots of pictures with fairly short complementary text. I have noticed most attention on this list has focussed on Le Guin's 'adult books' or books for 'older children'. But her books for younger children deserve attention for their imagination and storytelling. For younger children (perhaps preschool to 11) able to follow a story Le Guin has published several good books. Here are my brief reviews of them: "A Visit from Dr Katz" (1988 Atheneum) is a wonderful story of a sick child and the comfort she gets from the presence of two cats. Illustrated by Anne Barrow "Leese Webster" (1979 Atheneum) tells the tale of a little spider in a deserted palace who weaves wonderful webs imitating the images around her. When these webs are 'discovered' and preserved (as humans are wont to do with marvellous creations) Leese Webster finds herself being kindly deposited outside by janitors. Outside Leese finds true wonder and beauty with the sparkle of dew on her early morning web. A bit wordy, but a wonderful story for children. Wonderful line illustrations by James Brunsman. "Tom Mouse" (2002 Roaring Book Press) A story of an adventurous mouse who finds an equally kind and adventurous Ms Powers who attends meetings around the world on endangered species. Large Text. Wonderful drawings by Julie Downing. I have no problem in Tom Mouse accompanying Ms Powers around the United States, but I would hate to think what various Customs and Quarantine Inspectors would say about Tom Mouse travelling overseas with Ms Powers. "Fire and Stone" (1989 Atheneum) There be dragons in this story. The heros are two children who interpret what the dragon actually wants, much to the initial derision of the village Mayor. This is one of my favourite Le Guin Childrens books with wonderful colour paintings by Laura Marshall. I have read this to my two year old daughter, although it is probably still a bit advanced for her. "Solomon Leviathan's Nine Hundred and Thirty-First Trip Around the World" (1983 Philomel Books) The story of a Boa Constrictor, Giraffe and a whale and their voyage to find the horizon.... For older children. More wordy than the titles above. An amazing adventure all the same. "Catwings" (1988 Orchard Books) also "Catwings Return", "Wonderful Alexander and the Catwings" and "Jane on her own" are all tales in a series about a family of cats born with wings and their adventures. The kittens are brought alive in the Illustrations by SD Schindler. Wonderful to read to children. A pleasure to read for any cat lovers. "Fish Soup" (1992 Atheneum) A story about Thinking Man and Writing Woman who decide to have a child together, but end up having two. A very thoughtful story about expectations and parenting. Perhaps more meaningful for parents rather than children in this, but a rather magical and poetic tale all the same. "Cobbler's Rune" (illus. A. Austin). Cheap Street 1983 "A Ride on the Red Mare's Back" (illus. J. Downing). Orchard 1992 I have been unable to buy these titles so far.... These are all wonderful tales for children. Further comments on Le Guin's Children's Books? -- with solidarity Takver Radical Tradition, an anarchist and radical Australasian History Page http://www.takver.com/history/index.htm Visit Anarres Books - http://www.anarres.org.au To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-812-1039937718-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Dec 14 23:35:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.89]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id XAA18338 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:35:28 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-812-1039937718-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 07:35:18 -0000 X-Sender: aquila1@ihug.co.nz X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 15 Dec 2002 07:35:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 45607 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2002 07:35:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2002 07:35:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grunt3.ihug.co.nz) (203.109.254.43) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2002 07:35:17 -0000 Received: from p72-nas11.akl.ihug.co.nz (hppav) [203.173.213.72] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18NTIx-0006BQ-00; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 20:35:16 +1300 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal From: "Aquila" X-Yahoo-Profile: aquila1nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 20:26:59 +1300 Subject: RE: [the-ekumen] Young Childrens Books Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 217 I've read A Ride on the Red Mare's back at the local library - I liked it a lot. Aquila "Will I stay this way forever?" > -----Original Message----- > > "Cobbler's Rune" (illus. A. Austin). Cheap Street 1983 > "A Ride on the Red Mare's Back" (illus. J. Downing). Orchard 1992 > I have been unable to buy these titles so far.... > > These are all wonderful tales for children. Further comments on Le > Guin's Children's Books? > > -- > with solidarity > Takver To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-813-1039941052-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Dec 15 00:30:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id AAA05817 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 00:30:52 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-813-1039941052-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 08:30:52 -0000 X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 15 Dec 2002 08:30:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 94885 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2002 08:30:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2002 08:30:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.151) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2002 08:30:51 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA29383 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 03:43:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200212150843.DAA29383@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sun, 15 Dec 2002 03:30:33 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: from "takver_oz " at Dec 15, 2002 04:30:02 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 03:30:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: anthropological & family influences Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 223 takver_oz scripsit: > Dalton Trumbo: famed for being part of the Hollywood Ten - > blacklisted and jailed By the House of Unamerican activities under > Senator Joseph McCarthy. And author of the amazing anti-war novel _Johnny Got His Gun_. -- Híggledy-pìggledy / XML programmers John Cowan Try to escape those / I-eighteen-N woes; http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Incontrovertibly / What we need more of is http://www.reutershealth.com Unicode weenies and / François Yergeaus. jcowan@reutershealth.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-814-1039959556-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Dec 15 05:39:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.99]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id FAA28976 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 05:39:18 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-814-1039959556-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 13:39:16 -0000 X-Sender: shevek@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 15 Dec 2002 13:39:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 88404 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2002 13:39:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2002 13:39:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2002 13:39:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.182] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 13:39:15 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "takver_oz " X-Originating-IP: 203.123.64.150 X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 13:39:11 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Review of French translation of Lathe of Heaven Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 239 Judy, a very interesting review of 'The other side of Dreams'. This evening I sat down to watch the PBS production (1982?) of 'The Lathe of Heaven' video with some friends. The film followed the story from the book fairly closely. It has a dissonant soundtrack, except for the Beatles song 'With a little help from my friends'. It definitely has a B-grade Science Fiction feel to it. This is understandable given the film was made on the the smell of an oily rag (Australian colloquialism: trans. very cheaply). But the story line is a strong one and the story kept everyone interested till the last. Unfortunately, the movie still suffers from transcription from one art to another: written literature to film, but less so than many other transcriptions. The criticism of the misuse of power comes across, as does taoist symbolism. Although I think you would need to be an anarchist or a taoist to detect them as such in the film. Other philosophical questions do get asked: 'The greatest good for the greatest number' but at what cost? The ever present danger of nuclear catastrophe. How nationalism and patriotism is used to unite people: in the story against the Aliens; in real life we have the example of the War on Terrorism and mock enemies such as Osama Bin Laden, the Taliban, Sadam Hussein. I am going to be daring (and political) in suggesting a comparison between George Bush and William Haber: wanting to shape the world to their respective visions? If anything, I think Haber is more altruistic, though no less dangerous. I think I am going to view the movie several times more, and it has inspired me to dig out my copy of 'The Lathe of Heave' to re read. I certainly would not classify this book as her greatest work, but it is obviously important. > text concerns the power of dreams, an aquarium in the night > where cloudy thoughts materialize as the impermanent fish of > potentiality. An excellent allegory. Aquarium visions, sea of dreams, and turtle like Aliens are exactly as the film envisioned. Thanks for the translation, which I am sure captures the spirit and ideas of the original. Is Philippe Curval an established author? In what genres does he work? with solidarity Takver To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-815-1039960832-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Dec 15 06:00:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id GAA32629 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 06:00:34 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-815-1039960832-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 14:00:32 -0000 X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 15 Dec 2002 14:00:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 57296 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2002 14:00:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2002 14:00:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.terracom.net) (208.170.71.129) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2002 14:00:31 -0000 Received: from [128.104.50.189] (ras-c5800-1-50-189.dialup.wisc.edu [128.104.50.189]) by smtp.terracom.net (8.9.1a/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08935 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:14:44 GMT X-Sender: dsalo@pop.softhome.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: David Salo X-Yahoo-Profile: iiipitaka MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 08:00:20 -0600 Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Review of French translation of Lathe of Heaven Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 243 > How >nationalism and patriotism is used to unite people: in the story >against the Aliens; in real life we have the example of the War on >Terrorism and mock enemies such as Osama Bin Laden, the Taliban, Sadam >Hussein. I am going to be daring (and political) in suggesting a >comparison between George Bush and William Haber: wanting to shape the >world to their respective visions? If anything, I think Haber is more >altruistic, though no less dangerous. Surely a comparison, as good or better, should be made between bin Laden and Haber? ObL surely has a vision, very far-reaching and global in scope, of a world remade; but you, Takver, are perhaps the first person to accuse GWB of having any vision at all! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-816-1039992925-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Dec 15 14:55:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA30941 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:55:31 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-816-1039992925-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 22:55:25 -0000 X-Sender: the_last_naiad@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 15 Dec 2002 22:55:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 43157 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2002 22:55:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2002 22:55:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.9.63) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2002 22:55:24 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:55:24 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.1 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:55:24 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Dec 2002 22:55:24.0657 (UTC) FILETIME=[0DACD610:01C2A48D] From: "Jenn Martin" X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.1] X-Yahoo-Profile: wateryone MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:55:24 +1300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: family and [landscape] influences Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 279 > >My apologies for this long post with lots of digressions, but I think >Le Guin's family background is important for examining her compost >heap of ideas, especially as regards Always Coming Home. > >-- >with solidarity >Takver There is a good section in Elizabeth Cummin's book, Understanding Ursula K. Le Guin, on this also. As a geographer and someone who has her own family retreat in a valley, on a hummocky west coast, I can completely understand this family influences approach to the book. But for me the interest lies in response to the landscape and care for the landscape and how the landscape can work on you. Kind of like Kim Stanley Robinson's idea of aeroformation in the Mars Trilogy. I have never encountered a book that is imbued with a stronger and more deeply felt 'sense of place'. Her landscape is so deeply realised. I think that's one of the reasons one critic from the Oxford Times said of 'Always Coming Home' that "sometimes you open a book and find in a dozen pages the world inside more solid than the room where you sit". I can just imagine an adolescent Ursula roaming the hills and creekbeds of -her- valley, and devouring books like only teenagers can and learning the landscape. And I know so well how those memories, visual, cognitive and sensory, can shape a place for you, and make it yours. This is a work that has grown out of the geographical imagition of a child, and later, the earnest, hopeful, complex, strong-willed mind of an adult hoping for a better world. It's just incredible. It probably helped that I read this book for the first time while living in my valley, but that's what place-making is all about, afterall, isn't it. I also just noticed that Gale's have produced a study guide for Always Coming Home. Does that make it a canonical text? _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-817-1039994131-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Dec 15 15:15:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA04053 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 15:15:37 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-817-1039994131-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 23:15:32 -0000 X-Sender: the_last_naiad@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 15 Dec 2002 23:15:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 90774 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2002 23:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2002 23:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.9.168) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2002 23:15:31 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 15:15:31 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.1 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 23:15:31 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Dec 2002 23:15:31.0467 (UTC) FILETIME=[DCFD6DB0:01C2A48F] From: "Jenn Martin" X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.1] X-Yahoo-Profile: wateryone MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 12:15:31 +1300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and time-space setting Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 282 >Firstly, I have a "wonder;" I wonder why she describes what sounds very >much like an imagined >southwest Indian cuture (with a mix of Hopi, Apache >& Navaho elements) and places them in the distant >future in northern >California. I always thought it was just because she thought it sounded like a better way to live. You know, tread lightly on the earth and all that. I love the way people take a long while to do things in the valley, the paths meander, pick their way around the roots of things, and I think that's what people's lives are like too. No cars, no hurrying to get places, just focussing on life and the landscape. I especially felt this listening to the tape that goes with the book, and the beautiful background sounds and mumurings... it sounded like a balmy summer day, where maybe you've worked hard, but now your work is done, or maybe you're having a break, or maybe you never really felt like doing all that much today to start with. I guess she just thought the native american cultures expressed this better than others. As to why she set it in the future. So that she could speculate on a better, or maybe just different way to live I guess. And I can't say for certain. But maybe she wanted to give the land back, in her own small way. >I have also wound up thinking that I wish she had recast it in the past, >looking to establish the plot, >characters, etc. in the southwest, maybe >going back much further & exploring possible roots -- of course >using lots >of her fertile imagination-- in Siberia. We note, today, several >interesting connections between >present-day bird migration patterns and >the Siberia-crossing hypotheses. What do you think of that? I don't know. I have very little interest in this. It may in part be due to having read the Gear couple's (Katherine and William?) books about the first settlers to America's migration past the Laurel Ice Sheet and their subsequent settlement of America, and the fact that I didn't enjoy the books... or maybe it's just my great love for post-apocalyptic and disaster fiction, because in my mind, it gives us a change to speculatively make the world new, and do it over. I think Le Guin got it just right. Like Billy Bragg says in To Have and To Have Not "just because you're going forwards, doesn't mean I'm going backwards". In my mind, why can't you explore the past by setting it in the future.. and even better... why can't you explore the future by looking to the past. I like Le Guin's non linear, non hot, not too fast or expanding look at progress. I like her meandering, circuitous, slow, nurturing, contracting look at a different kind of progress. It's one of my favourite things about the book and why I think it works so well as a thought experiment in utopia. This isn't to say that I think other people are wrong for being interested in the more historical side of the book, I love all the detail, and have poured over all the Native American handbooks and the encylopedia just like everyone else, trying to glean information that helps me flesh out my idea of the Kesh. But I do think that Le Guin is entirely right in setting her book when and where she did. Thanks for starting this dialogue Darius... let's keep it going... Jenn _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-818-1039995470-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Dec 15 15:37:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA10000 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 15:37:56 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-818-1039995470-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 23:37:50 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 15 Dec 2002 23:37:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 38903 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2002 23:37:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2002 23:37:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hall.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.60) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2002 23:37:49 -0000 Received: from dialup-153-158.tnnas2.usit.net ([216.80.153.158] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18NiKN-0000Jg-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 18:37:43 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01c2a493$f6b06ba0$9e9950d8@com> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Darius Thieme" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:44:50 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: anthropological & family influences Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 286 To: takver_oz Has anyone else thought that ALWAYS COMING HOME is in many ways > very similar to her father's HANDBOOK OF THE INDIANS OF > CALIFORNIA? That it could have been a model for the book's > structure? I haven't seen the handbook so I can't comment specifically... The Summer Retreat property in the Napa Valley where Ursula grew up was called by the family "Kishamish" then later shortened to "Kish". (Kishamish was the name of an invented giant - p140 'Alfred Kroeber A personal configuration') Perhaps this name is the inspiration of the Kesh in 'Always Coming Home'. I think the child hood adventures of exploring the property and surrounding landscape provided much "compost" material for "Always Coming Home". That and the stories around the dinner table and campfire from her parents and visiting anthropology students. Perhaps metaphorically, the Yahi come alive again in the Kesh of Always Coming Home. Has anyone else considered this? I have also been interested in the story of Ishi and its influence on Ursula Le Guin. Ishi never divulged the true name of himself, or any other members of his people. "Ishi" was not his tribal name, but a word meaning "man" in Yahi. Because of tribal prohibition against using one's own name, Ishi stopped using this word after he realized that others were treating it as his name. (see http://www.cateweb.org/CA_Authors/Kroeber.html) Theodora Kroeber by Janice Albert The biography of Ishi (Ishi in Two Worlds, 1960) was written by Theodora Kroeber, Le Guin's mother, many years after Ishi's death from tuberculosis. Ishi was popularly considered 'the last wild indian in North America' when he stumbled into western civilisation at the limits of fear and exhaustion in 1911. He was to spend the last five years of his life with anthroplogists, Waterman and Alfred Kroeber (Le Guin's father), at the Museum of anthropology in San Fransisco. Afred Kroeber's interaction and friendship with Ishi occurred 1911-1916, many years before Ursula was born. But Ishi's friendship had a profound impact on Kroeber. In an attempt to stop an autopsy on his friend he wrote: "Science can go to hell. We propose to stand by our friends." Unfortunately this letter was too late and an autopsy was performed and Ishi's brain was removed. Ishi's body was cremated, according to the custom of Ishi's people along with some items treasured by Ishi and to 'sustain' him in his final journey. "After Ishi's death, Kroeber went into psychoanalysis for two years before returning to his work. I believe he was doing some serious soul-searching about the ethics of his work. Even though he went on to become the first great California anthropologist, he never in his lifetime published another word about Ishi, and when he spoke of him it was "with feelings of deep loss". (see http://www.thebicyclingguitarist.net/ishi/ MEDIA PORTRAYAL AND ANTHROPOLOGISTS' TREATMENT OF ISHI, THE LAST YAHI by Chris Watson Theodora took on the task of researching and writing Ishi's biography in the 1950's, and was able to discuss and correct her work with Alfred Kroeber, although to him much of it was "the stuff of human agony from whose immediacy he could not sufficiently distance himself." Ishi's biography is a very powerful and poignant story about colonisation from a victim's point of view. I have no idea how much Ursula Le Guin absorbed from the story of Ishi, but certainly her father's work as an anthropologist has given her an ability to question and examine human nature and society, often from several different points of view. Some References by Theodora Kroeber: * Alfred Kroeber A Personal Configuration, (1970) * Ishi in Two Worlds, (1961) Theodora Kroeber also wrote a version called 'Ishi, Last of his Tribe'. Her book, 'The Inland Whale' (1959), contains 9 stories retold from California Indian Legends, all containing a female central charcter - an interesting read and quite unusual for its time with its focus on women characters. In 1978 a Hollywood television movie was made of Ishi's story - 'Ishi Last of his Tribe', based on a script by Dalton & Christopher Trumbo (Dalton Trumbo died during the production of the movie) and starring Dennis Weaver. It is not the usual sort of western - and it conveys the powerful and sad emotions of the book in personalising the destruction of an indigenous culture. It is of course a Hollywood dramatisation but scripted with some sensitivity by veteran screen writer Dalton Trumbo: famed for being part of the Hollywood Ten - blacklisted and jailed By the House of Unamerican activities under Senator Joseph McCarthy. The movie is definitley worthwhile seeing. (see a bio of Dalton Trumbo at http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/trumbo.htm ) My apologies for this long post with lots of digressions, but I think Le Guin's family background is important for examining her compost heap of ideas, especially as regards Always Coming Home. -- with solidarity Takver Radical Tradition, an anarchist and radical Australasian History Page http://www.takver.com/history/index.htm Visit Anarres Books - http://www.anarres.org.au To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-819-1039995746-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Dec 15 15:42:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA11743 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 15:42:32 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-819-1039995746-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 23:42:26 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 15 Dec 2002 23:42:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 88546 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2002 23:42:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2002 23:42:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hall.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.60) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2002 23:42:26 -0000 Received: from dialup-153-158.tnnas2.usit.net ([216.80.153.158] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18NiOt-0006UC-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 18:42:24 -0500 Message-ID: <001701c2a494$9e0c0c60$9e9950d8@com> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Darius Thieme" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:49:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: family and [landscape] influences Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 287 Jenn Martin- Thanks for your comments. I particularly enjoy her rhapsodizing on nature, landscapes, etc. I find her imagery and her use of pictorial metaphor very beautiful and remarkable. However, this doesn't erase my misgivings about the book. Over to y'all Darius Thieme ----- Original Message ----- From: Jenn Martin To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: family and [landscape] influences > >My apologies for this long post with lots of digressions, but I think >Le Guin's family background is important for examining her compost >heap of ideas, especially as regards Always Coming Home. > >-- >with solidarity >Takver There is a good section in Elizabeth Cummin's book, Understanding Ursula K. Le Guin, on this also. As a geographer and someone who has her own family retreat in a valley, on a hummocky west coast, I can completely understand this family influences approach to the book. But for me the interest lies in response to the landscape and care for the landscape and how the landscape can work on you. Kind of like Kim Stanley Robinson's idea of aeroformation in the Mars Trilogy. I have never encountered a book that is imbued with a stronger and more deeply felt 'sense of place'. Her landscape is so deeply realised. I think that's one of the reasons one critic from the Oxford Times said of 'Always Coming Home' that "sometimes you open a book and find in a dozen pages the world inside more solid than the room where you sit". I can just imagine an adolescent Ursula roaming the hills and creekbeds of -her- valley, and devouring books like only teenagers can and learning the landscape. And I know so well how those memories, visual, cognitive and sensory, can shape a place for you, and make it yours. This is a work that has grown out of the geographical imagition of a child, and later, the earnest, hopeful, complex, strong-willed mind of an adult hoping for a better world. It's just incredible. It probably helped that I read this book for the first time while living in my valley, but that's what place-making is all about, afterall, isn't it. I also just noticed that Gale's have produced a study guide for Always Coming Home. Does that make it a canonical text? _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-820-1039998076-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Dec 15 16:21:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.87]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA26212 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 16:21:23 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-820-1039998076-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2002 00:21:17 -0000 X-Sender: the_last_naiad@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 16 Dec 2002 00:21:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 88462 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2002 00:21:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2002 00:21:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.9.189) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2002 00:21:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 16:21:16 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.1 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 00:21:15 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Dec 2002 00:21:16.0082 (UTC) FILETIME=[0C29E920:01C2A499] From: "Jenn Martin" X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.1] X-Yahoo-Profile: wateryone MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 13:21:15 +1300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: family and [landscape] influences Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 292 Darius... What are your misgivings exactly? I'm planning to write my dissertation on this book one day,a nd it always helps to look at things with a critical eye. Jenn >From: "Darius Thieme" >Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: family and [landscape] >influences >Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:49:31 -0600 > >Jenn Martin- >Thanks for your comments. I particularly enjoy her rhapsodizing on nature, >landscapes, etc. I find her imagery and her use of pictorial metaphor very >beautiful and remarkable. However, this doesn't erase my misgivings about >the book. > >Over to y'all >Darius Thieme > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jenn Martin > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 4:55 PM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: family and [landscape] >influences > > > > > >My apologies for this long post with lots of digressions, but I think > >Le Guin's family background is important for examining her compost > >heap of ideas, especially as regards Always Coming Home. > > > >-- > >with solidarity > >Takver > > There is a good section in Elizabeth Cummin's book, Understanding Ursula >K. > Le Guin, on this also. > As a geographer and someone who has her own family retreat in a valley, >on a > hummocky west coast, I can completely understand this family influences > approach to the book. But for me the interest lies in response to the > landscape and care for the landscape and how the landscape can work on >you. > Kind of like Kim Stanley Robinson's idea of aeroformation in the Mars > Trilogy. > > I have never encountered a book that is imbued with a stronger and more > deeply felt 'sense of place'. Her landscape is so deeply realised. I >think > that's one of the reasons one critic from the Oxford Times said of >'Always > Coming Home' that "sometimes you open a book and find in a dozen pages >the > world inside more solid than the room where you sit". > > I can just imagine an adolescent Ursula roaming the hills and creekbeds >of > -her- valley, and devouring books like only teenagers can and learning >the > landscape. And I know so well how those memories, visual, cognitive and > sensory, can shape a place for you, and make it yours. This is a work >that > has grown out of the geographical imagition of a child, and later, the > earnest, hopeful, complex, strong-willed mind of an adult hoping for a > better world. It's just incredible. It probably helped that I read >this > book for the first time while living in my valley, but that's what > place-making is all about, afterall, isn't it. > > I also just noticed that Gale's have produced a study guide for Always > Coming Home. Does that make it a canonical text? > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-821-1039998357-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Dec 15 16:26:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA27930 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 16:26:03 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-821-1039998357-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2002 00:25:57 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 16 Dec 2002 00:25:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 86862 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2002 00:25:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2002 00:25:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO granger.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.148) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2002 00:25:56 -0000 Received: from dialup-153-16.tnnas2.usit.net ([216.80.153.16] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Nj4z-0001S7-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 15 Dec 2002 19:25:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c2a49a$b1a20760$109950d8@com> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Darius Thieme" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 18:33:01 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: family and [landscape] influences Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 293 To: Jenn Martin: I sent them in an email addressed to Judy Dubois via the ekumen site. I can copy it to you, but I assumed it was open for all -- anyway, get back to me if you want me to forward it to you 'bye for now -- Darius Thieme ----- Original Message ----- From: Jenn Martin To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: family and [landscape] influences Darius... What are your misgivings exactly? I'm planning to write my dissertation on this book one day,a nd it always helps to look at things with a critical eye. Jenn >From: "Darius Thieme" >Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: family and [landscape] >influences >Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:49:31 -0600 > >Jenn Martin- >Thanks for your comments. I particularly enjoy her rhapsodizing on nature, >landscapes, etc. I find her imagery and her use of pictorial metaphor very >beautiful and remarkable. However, this doesn't erase my misgivings about >the book. > >Over to y'all >Darius Thieme > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jenn Martin > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 4:55 PM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: family and [landscape] >influences > > > > > >My apologies for this long post with lots of digressions, but I think > >Le Guin's family background is important for examining her compost > >heap of ideas, especially as regards Always Coming Home. > > > >-- > >with solidarity > >Takver > > There is a good section in Elizabeth Cummin's book, Understanding Ursula >K. > Le Guin, on this also. > As a geographer and someone who has her own family retreat in a valley, >on a > hummocky west coast, I can completely understand this family influences > approach to the book. But for me the interest lies in response to the > landscape and care for the landscape and how the landscape can work on >you. > Kind of like Kim Stanley Robinson's idea of aeroformation in the Mars > Trilogy. > > I have never encountered a book that is imbued with a stronger and more > deeply felt 'sense of place'. Her landscape is so deeply realised. I >think > that's one of the reasons one critic from the Oxford Times said of >'Always > Coming Home' that "sometimes you open a book and find in a dozen pages >the > world inside more solid than the room where you sit". > > I can just imagine an adolescent Ursula roaming the hills and creekbeds >of > -her- valley, and devouring books like only teenagers can and learning >the > landscape. And I know so well how those memories, visual, cognitive and > sensory, can shape a place for you, and make it yours. This is a work >that > has grown out of the geographical imagition of a child, and later, the > earnest, hopeful, complex, strong-willed mind of an adult hoping for a > better world. It's just incredible. It probably helped that I read >this > book for the first time while living in my valley, but that's what > place-making is all about, afterall, isn't it. > > I also just noticed that Gale's have produced a study guide for Always > Coming Home. Does that make it a canonical text? > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-822-1040040404-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Dec 16 04:06:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id EAA05042 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 04:06:46 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-822-1040040404-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2002 12:06:44 -0000 X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 16 Dec 2002 12:06:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 30498 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2002 12:06:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2002 12:06:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.151) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2002 12:06:43 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA05613 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 07:19:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200212161219.HAA05613@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 16 Dec 2002 07:06:22 -0500 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: from "Jenn Martin" at Dec 16, 2002 12:15:31 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 07:06:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and time-space setting Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 340 Jenn Martin scripsit: > As to why she set it in the future. So that she could speculate on a > better, or maybe just different way to live I guess. And I can't say for > certain. But maybe she wanted to give the land back, in her own small way. In addition, setting in the future is necessary in order to have the computers and AI programs. -- John Cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com www.ccil.org/~cowan www.reutershealth.com "If I have seen farther than others, it is because I am surrounded by dwarves." --Murray Gell-Mann To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-823-1040062949-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Dec 16 10:22:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA02681 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:22:33 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-823-1040062949-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2002 18:22:29 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 16 Dec 2002 18:22:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 56627 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2002 18:22:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2002 18:22:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2002 18:22:28 -0000 Received: from smtp1.Stanford.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBGIMRqv006281 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:22:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from sls-258c (sls-258c.Stanford.EDU [171.64.212.237]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gBGIMRci006278 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:22:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.20021216091523.00a859b0@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:22:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: anthropological & family influences Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 407 At 08:30 PM 12/14/2002 , Takver wrote: >The Summer Retreat property in the Napa Valley where Ursula grew up >was called by the family "Kishamish" then later shortened to "Kish". >(Kishamish was the name of an invented giant - p140 'Alfred Kroeber A >personal configuration') Perhaps this name is the inspiration of the >Kesh in 'Always Coming Home'. A reasonable surmise, but I think this is not so. Such comments as Le Guin has made on the genesis of ACH, in her essay "Legends for a New Land" and interviews, give me the very strong impression that there is nothing of her childhood mythology in the book. (For a contrast, see E.R. Eddison, whose Witches and Demons are names he kept from childhood stories, though vastly inappropriate for the creatures he applied them to in _The Worm Ouroboros_.) >I think the child hood adventures of >exploring the property and surrounding landscape provided much >"compost" material for "Always Coming Home". This is more likely. I doubt there is much of her _personal_ childhood adventures in the book, but Sinshan, the town where Pandora does most of her field research, is very near Kishamish; and the story "May's Lion" (not in ACH, but it's in _Buffalo Gals and Other Animal Presences, IIRC) shows how she remade and vastly altered a real incident into a story involving the Kesh. >That and the stories >around the dinner table and campfire from her parents and visiting >anthropology students. Perhaps metaphorically, the Yahi come alive >again in the Kesh of Always Coming Home. Has anyone else considered >this? Not the Yahi, specifically. Ishi, the famous "Last Yahi", died long before Le Guin was born, as you note; and her father had many other Amerind informants, some of whom she did meet and know well. One or two even lived with the family (see _Alfred Kroeber: A Personal Configuration_). They were more important to _her_ than Ishi was. I think Ishi's fame, and the sorrow of his individual story, have misled people as to his importance to Le Guin, except as an example of a tragedy that concerns her because of other cases. In the preface to ACH she mentions the Wappo, the tribe that had inhabited the valley where she placed the Kesh, and describes how their language and civilization have vanished utterly - more even than the Yahi, for the Wappo had no Ishi. I think it's fair to say that Le Guin here uses the Wappo as an exemplar, of a class which includes the Yahi and many many others. At 02:55 PM 12/15/2002 , Jenn Martin wrote: >I have never encountered a book that is imbued with a stronger and more >deeply felt 'sense of place'. Her landscape is so deeply realised. I think >that's one of the reasons one critic from the Oxford Times said of 'Always >Coming Home' that "sometimes you open a book and find in a dozen pages the >world inside more solid than the room where you sit". I absolutely agree. If Tolkien (who is also great with place and landscape) is the author who most gives off a sense of the depths of time, Le Guin, especially in ACH, is the one who most gives off a sense of place. I already knew the landscape that inspired ACH before the book was written - I grew up amid similar landscape in another nearby valley - and I've visited some of the sites of the book with her story in mind. It's a richly rewarding experience, so long as one remembers to walk lightly on the land! >I can just imagine an adolescent Ursula roaming the hills and creekbeds of >-her- valley, and devouring books like only teenagers can and learning the >landscape. And I know so well how those memories, visual, cognitive and >sensory, can shape a place for you, and make it yours. Yes, I think that's it. It's the place you already know. In "Legends for a New Land," Le Guin describes how she initially thought the Kesh lived up in some distant mountains - the Andes, perhaps? - and only slowly realized that they were in _her_ valley. Once she realized that, she embraced it, and spent much time revisiting the place with the book in mind. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/46VHAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-824-1040063814-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Dec 16 10:36:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.65]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA09071 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:36:58 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-824-1040063814-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2002 18:36:54 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 16 Dec 2002 18:36:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 84420 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2002 18:36:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2002 18:36:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2002 18:36:53 -0000 Received: from smtp1.Stanford.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBGIaqqv010873 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:36:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sls-258c (sls-258c.Stanford.EDU [171.64.212.237]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gBGIapci010868 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:36:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.20021216102739.067f5008@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:37:02 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and time-space setting Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 411 At 03:15 PM 12/15/2002 , Jenn wrote: >>Firstly, I have a "wonder;" I wonder why she describes what sounds very >>much like an imagined >southwest Indian cuture (with a mix of Hopi, Apache >>& Navaho elements) and places them in the distant >future in northern >>California. > >I always thought it was just because she thought it sounded like a better >way to live. You know, tread lightly on the earth and all that. I love the >way people take a long while to do things in the valley, the paths meander, >pick their way around the roots of things, and I think that's what people's >lives are like too. No cars, no hurrying to get places, just focussing on >life and the landscape. Yes, and a lot more as well - their cosmology, for instance. The Kesh don't really care what's over the next hill, unless they have to go there on business (or it's coming to them). They're content to be settled in their own land. I don't think the Kesh are particuarly southwestern in style. They have a lot of the general California culture, and that of the North Coast peoples, as well. >As to why she set it in the future. So that she could speculate on a >better, or maybe just different way to live I guess. And I can't say for >certain. But maybe she wanted to give the land back, in her own small way. I'd guess it's set in the future partly because that gives the author greater freedom of imagination. She can, for instance, change the landscape, which she did dramatically, without worrying about historical credibility. Also to shock the reader. There's a science-fiction myth of continued "upward" progress. Le Guin dares to suggest we could have a future more like that part of the past - and she wants to blame modern civilization for the problems faced by the Kesh (see "Pandora and the Archivist") and to show that the Kesh can use ultra-modern technology (the City of Mind, which sounds a lot more like the Web than anything available at the time Le Guin wrote) without being absorbed by it. >This isn't to say that I think other people are wrong for being interested >in the more historical side of the book, I love all the detail, and have >poured over all the Native American handbooks and the encylopedia just like >everyone else, trying to glean information that helps me flesh out my idea >of the Kesh. But I do think that Le Guin is entirely right in setting her >book when and where she did. Insofar as the Kesh are like the Amerinds of the past, that can indeed help. I've found her father's _Handbook of the Indians of California_ very interesting, especially for its focus on local micro-geography. - David Bratman To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-825-1040066805-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Dec 16 11:26:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA31301 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:26:49 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-825-1040066805-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2002 19:26:45 -0000 X-Sender: the_last_naiad@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 16 Dec 2002 19:26:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 58311 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2002 19:26:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2002 19:26:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.9.13) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2002 19:26:44 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:26:44 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.1 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:26:44 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Dec 2002 19:26:44.0711 (UTC) FILETIME=[119E6F70:01C2A539] From: "Jenn Martin" X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.1] X-Yahoo-Profile: wateryone MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:26:44 +1300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and time-space setting Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 419 So true! I had completely forgotten abour the AI information system... that's one very interesting aspect of her 'utopia', if you ask me... the idea of free access to information and the sharing of knowledge... I just love that she's called the whole thing 'an archeology of the future'... the idea of unearthing a society that hasn't existed yet... just as interesting as the past, in my opinion... >In addition, setting in the future is necessary in order to have the >computers and AI programs. > >-- >John Cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com www.ccil.org/~cowan >www.reutershealth.com >"If I have seen farther than others, it is because I am surrounded by >dwarves." > --Murray Gell-Mann _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-826-1040087614-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Dec 16 17:13:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA14289 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:13:41 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-826-1040087614-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2002 01:13:34 -0000 X-Sender: mayaward@yahoo.com.au X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 17 Dec 2002 01:13:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 68170 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2002 01:13:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2002 01:13:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web21106.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.227.108) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2002 01:13:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20021217011332.29911.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.134.131.172] by web21106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:13:32 EST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: =?iso-8859-1?q?maya=20ward?= X-Yahoo-Profile: mayaward MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:13:32 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 500 I so enjoyed reading all your thoughts on my favourite book, one that I have been pretty much alone with, for the ten years I have lived with it as a guide. I relate to much that Jenn writes, and I am jealous that she has her own place poeticised in such a way. Here in Australia there is far less nature writing or sense of place sensibility. The book creates in me a potent mix of yearning and hope; it directs my energies toward activities of reinhabitation; walking the waterways of my bioregion, learning the names of things (there is power there, as she suggests in her dragon books), and slowly, over time, hearing the voices of the other people in the form of bird or animal. It is learning about returning a metaphysical language back into the phenomenological world, so that eagle and raven speak to me of ideas as well as themselves. And then sharing this with my community; this I feel is my work, and Ursula has helped me know this. I would love to write to her to thank her; do you think she would mind? Thank you all, Maya Jenn Martin wrote:So true! I had completely forgotten abour the AI information system... that's one very interesting aspect of her 'utopia', if you ask me... the idea of free access to information and the sharing of knowledge... I just love that she's called the whole thing 'an archeology of the future'... the idea of unearthing a society that hasn't existed yet... just as interesting as the past, in my opinion... >In addition, setting in the future is necessary in order to have the >computers and AI programs. > >-- >John Cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com www.ccil.org/~cowan >www.reutershealth.com >"If I have seen farther than others, it is because I am surrounded by >dwarves." > --Murray Gell-Mann _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Greetings - Send your seasons greetings online this year! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-827-1040089108-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Dec 16 17:38:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA22616 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:38:34 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-827-1040089108-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2002 01:38:28 -0000 X-Sender: heyiya@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 17 Dec 2002 01:38:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 82268 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2002 01:38:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2002 01:38:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO puck.reed.edu) (134.10.2.8) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2002 01:38:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 2051 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2002 01:37:32 -0000 Received: from rosencrantz.reed.edu (134.10.2.31) by puck.reed.edu with SMTP; 17 Dec 2002 01:37:32 -0000 Received: by rosencrantz.reed.edu (blitz.reed.edu) via SMTP from c176h032.library.reed.edu [134.10.176.32] for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com id <9599400> 16 Dec 2002 17:38:26 PST X-Sender: heyiya@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20021217011332.29911.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021217011332.29911.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: heather w X-Yahoo-Profile: heyiya MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:38:24 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 508 >I would love to write to her to thank her; do you think she would mind? Not at all; her mailing address was published in _Steering the Craft_ a few years ago and is also on her website. Ursula K. Le Guin P.O. Box 10541 Portland, OR, 97296-0541 USA I wrote once to tell her she was not the last generation to be annoyed when folks misuse the words "lay" and "lie" (something she mentions in that book). And she sent a postcard back. She also has a bit about writing to her on her website: http://www.ursulakleguin.com/FAQ_Questionnaire5_01.html#Autographs Heather -- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . heather whipple heyiya@earthlink.net . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . It's a Broad Universe! www.broaduniverse.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-828-1040225447-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Dec 18 07:30:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA24893 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:30:50 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-828-1040225447-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2002 15:30:47 -0000 X-Sender: peter@seyferth.de X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 18 Dec 2002 15:30:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 81611 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2002 15:30:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2002 15:30:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.webmailer.de) (192.67.198.74) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2002 15:30:43 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.10] (pD950EDAD.dip.t-dialin.net [217.80.237.173]) by post.webmailer.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16546 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:30:21 +0100 (MET) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 To: Ekumen Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1039706354.227.75744.m12@yahoogroups.com> From: Peter Seyferth X-Yahoo-Profile: peterseyferth MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:30:37 +0100 Subject: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and The Lathe of Heaven Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 345 Hi. I just finished rereading "The Lathe of Heaven". While reading, a strange idea has occured to me: May it be that Pandora has a similar role to Dr. Haber's? Of course, the utopias they create or try to create are very different. But both kill billions of people for a better living. They both change the environment and the landscape. And they both have good intentions. I know that the idea is odd... BTW: Where can I find Le Guins essay "Legends for a New Land" that David Bratman mentioned? It is not in one of her essay collections. -- Peter ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.ZSp6B/dlOFAA/46VHAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-829-1040247209-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Dec 18 13:50:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA06854 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:50:09 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-829-1040247209-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2002 21:33:30 -0000 X-Sender: the_last_naiad@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 18 Dec 2002 21:33:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 56687 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2002 21:33:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2002 21:33:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.9.9) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2002 21:33:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:33:29 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.1 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:33:28 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Dec 2002 21:33:29.0084 (UTC) FILETIME=[1B012BC0:01C2A6DD] From: "Jenn Martin" X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.1] X-Yahoo-Profile: wateryone MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:33:28 +1300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and The Lathe of Heaven Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 486 That's a bit harsh on Pandora isn't it. She's an observer, a mediating narrative device between the Kesh and us. Pandora didn't create the world of the Kesh, in my mind, she is simply the part of Le Guin that is trying to understand it. Maybe instead we should be saying that we are like Dr Haber... isn't Pandora just one of us? "Legends for a new land" can be found in the proceedings of the 1989 World Fantasy Convention, it's called 'The roots of fantasy : myth, folklore and archetype' and was edited by Shelley Dutton Berry. There are no library holdings for this book in New Zealand (I think only 1050 copies of the book were produced) so if I ever want to read the essay, I'll have to interloan it from overseas at great cost. I don't suppose anyone has a copy of the essay do they? Jenn >From: Peter Seyferth >Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com >To: Ekumen >Subject: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and The Lathe of Heaven >Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:30:37 +0100 > >Hi. >I just finished rereading "The Lathe of Heaven". While reading, a strange >idea has occured to me: May it be that Pandora has a similar role to Dr. >Haber's? Of course, the utopias they create or try to create are very >different. But both kill billions of people for a better living. They both >change the environment and the landscape. And they both have good >intentions. I know that the idea is odd... > >BTW: Where can I find Le Guins essay "Legends for a New Land" that David >Bratman mentioned? It is not in one of her essay collections. > >-- Peter > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.ZSp6B/dlOFAA/46VHAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-830-1040248804-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Dec 18 14:00:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA12963 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:00:09 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-830-1040248804-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2002 22:00:04 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 18 Dec 2002 22:00:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 98635 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2002 22:00:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2002 22:00:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2002 22:00:02 -0000 Received: from smtp1.Stanford.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBIM01JY015949 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:00:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from sls-258c (sls-258c.Stanford.EDU [171.64.212.237]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gBIM00T7015945 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:00:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.20021218134740.00a2fe80@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:00:13 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and The Lathe of Heaven Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 491 At 01:33 PM 12/18/2002 , Jenn wrote: >That's a bit harsh on Pandora isn't it. She's an observer, a mediating >narrative device between the Kesh and us. Pandora didn't create the world >of the Kesh, in my mind, she is simply the part of Le Guin that is trying to >understand it. I agree. Pandora is complicit in the creation of the devastation the Kesh must live with, but only insofar as she is one of us: we are complicit too. In a sense Dr Haber is also any and all of us, but not in the same sense. Why is she called Pandora, though? By showing us the Kesh, is she not, by implicitly comparing them with us, lifting the lid of a box of troubles of our own civilization, a box that we like to keep closed and pretend doesn't exist? >"Legends for a new land" can be found in the proceedings of the 1989 World >Fantasy Convention, it's called 'The roots of fantasy : myth, folklore and >archetype' and was edited by Shelley Dutton Berry. There are no library >holdings for this book in New Zealand (I think only 1050 copies of the book >were produced) so if I ever want to read the essay, I'll have to interloan >it from overseas at great cost. I don't suppose anyone has a copy of the >essay do they? That was a reprint. "Legends For a New Land" was originally published in an issue of Mythlore from the Mythopoeic Society in 1988 or 1989. I'm sorry I am not with my files and cannot tell you which one. But copies of whichever issue it was may be ordered from the Mythopoeic Society for $3.50. Information may be had at . If you write and ask for the issue with that article in it, I think they'd be willing to figure it out for you. Or, you can nag me to check my files and find out. But I won't be able to do that until tomorrow at soonest. Another thing I can't remember for sure offhand is whether this was the same issue that contained the transcription of a panel, "The Making of Always Coming Home", featuring all four persons who appeared on the book's title page: UKL, Todd Barton, Margaret Chodos-Irvine, and George Hersh. It was quite an event, with lots of fascinating things said, and this one has not been reprinted. - David Bratman To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-831-1040320076-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Dec 19 09:48:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA08782 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:48:00 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-831-1040320076-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2002 17:47:56 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 19 Dec 2002 17:47:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 89148 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2002 17:47:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2002 17:47:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp6.mindspring.com) (207.69.200.110) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2002 17:47:50 -0000 Received: from dialup-154-23.tnnas2.usit.net ([216.80.154.23] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18P4lw-0001Cz-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:47:48 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c2a787$c7bef7c0$179a50d8@com> To: References: <20021217011332.29911.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Darius Thieme" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:55:10 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 To maya ward: Thanks for your interesting & insightful thoughts. Myself, I guess you would say I'm a romantic, tempered with skepticism -- perhaps like the French philosopher, Montaigne. I think you might try writring to her (Le Guin) in care of, "site manager, the ekumen @yahoo groups." I believe he might be able to help you, or perhaps Ms. LeGuin might answer herself. She has been known to take interest in her readers. best wishes & happy new year & happy readings! - Darius ----- Original Message ----- From: maya ward To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home I so enjoyed reading all your thoughts on my favourite book, one that I have been pretty much alone with, for the ten years I have lived with it as a guide. I relate to much that Jenn writes, and I am jealous that she has her own place poeticised in such a way. Here in Australia there is far less nature writing or sense of place sensibility. The book creates in me a potent mix of yearning and hope; it directs my energies toward activities of reinhabitation; walking the waterways of my bioregion, learning the names of things (there is power there, as she suggests in her dragon books), and slowly, over time, hearing the voices of the other people in the form of bird or animal. It is learning about returning a metaphysical language back into the phenomenological world, so that eagle and raven speak to me of ideas as well as themselves. And then sharing this with my community; this I feel is my work, and Ursula has helped me know this. I would love to write to her to thank her; do you think she would mind? Thank you all, Maya Jenn Martin wrote:So true! I had completely forgotten abour the AI information system... that's one very interesting aspect of her 'utopia', if you ask me... the idea of free access to information and the sharing of knowledge... I just love that she's called the whole thing 'an archeology of the future'... the idea of unearthing a society that hasn't existed yet... just as interesting as the past, in my opinion... >In addition, setting in the future is necessary in order to have the >computers and AI programs. > >-- >John Cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com www.ccil.org/~cowan >www.reutershealth.com >"If I have seen farther than others, it is because I am surrounded by >dwarves." > --Murray Gell-Mann _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Greetings - Send your seasons greetings online this year! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-832-1040320474-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Dec 19 09:54:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA11948 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:54:41 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-832-1040320474-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2002 17:54:34 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 19 Dec 2002 17:54:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 97650 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2002 17:54:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2002 17:54:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp6.mindspring.com) (207.69.200.110) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2002 17:54:33 -0000 Received: from dialup-154-23.tnnas2.usit.net ([216.80.154.23] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18P4sR-0008Jv-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:54:31 -0500 Message-ID: <002401c2a788$b7f9fdc0$179a50d8@com> To: References: <4.1.20021216102739.067f5008@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Darius Thieme" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:01:54 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and time-space setting Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 David S. Bratman: Thanks for your insightful response. It does help me a bit to come more to terms with her setting, plot and characters, but I still feel she's too far in the "past" for it to be "future". Happy New Year-- Darius ----- Original Message ----- From: David S. Bratman To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and time-space setting At 03:15 PM 12/15/2002 , Jenn wrote: >>Firstly, I have a "wonder;" I wonder why she describes what sounds very >>much like an imagined >southwest Indian cuture (with a mix of Hopi, Apache >>& Navaho elements) and places them in the distant >future in northern >>California. > >I always thought it was just because she thought it sounded like a better >way to live. You know, tread lightly on the earth and all that. I love the >way people take a long while to do things in the valley, the paths meander, >pick their way around the roots of things, and I think that's what people's >lives are like too. No cars, no hurrying to get places, just focussing on >life and the landscape. Yes, and a lot more as well - their cosmology, for instance. The Kesh don't really care what's over the next hill, unless they have to go there on business (or it's coming to them). They're content to be settled in their own land. I don't think the Kesh are particuarly southwestern in style. They have a lot of the general California culture, and that of the North Coast peoples, as well. >As to why she set it in the future. So that she could speculate on a >better, or maybe just different way to live I guess. And I can't say for >certain. But maybe she wanted to give the land back, in her own small way. I'd guess it's set in the future partly because that gives the author greater freedom of imagination. She can, for instance, change the landscape, which she did dramatically, without worrying about historical credibility. Also to shock the reader. There's a science-fiction myth of continued "upward" progress. Le Guin dares to suggest we could have a future more like that part of the past - and she wants to blame modern civilization for the problems faced by the Kesh (see "Pandora and the Archivist") and to show that the Kesh can use ultra-modern technology (the City of Mind, which sounds a lot more like the Web than anything available at the time Le Guin wrote) without being absorbed by it. >This isn't to say that I think other people are wrong for being interested >in the more historical side of the book, I love all the detail, and have >poured over all the Native American handbooks and the encylopedia just like >everyone else, trying to glean information that helps me flesh out my idea >of the Kesh. But I do think that Le Guin is entirely right in setting her >book when and where she did. Insofar as the Kesh are like the Amerinds of the past, that can indeed help. I've found her father's _Handbook of the Indians of California_ very interesting, especially for its focus on local micro-geography. - David Bratman To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-833-1040320754-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Dec 19 09:59:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA14166 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:59:18 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-833-1040320754-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2002 17:59:14 -0000 X-Sender: dthiemepop@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 19 Dec 2002 17:59:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 73907 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2002 17:59:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2002 17:59:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp6.mindspring.com) (207.69.200.110) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2002 17:59:14 -0000 Received: from dialup-154-23.tnnas2.usit.net ([216.80.154.23] helo=dthiemepopMindspring) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18P4wy-0006BJ-00 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:59:12 -0500 Message-ID: <002e01c2a789$5f98c200$179a50d8@com> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Darius Thieme" X-Yahoo-Profile: dthiemepop2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:06:36 -0600 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and The Lathe of Heaven Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 Jenn Martin: Yes, yes, and yes. Also, I appreciate the metaphorical allusion to Pandora and her box, here reinterpreted. My misgivings remain, however, but I'll get back to the book again soon. Darius ----- Original Message ----- From: Jenn Martin To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and The Lathe of Heaven That's a bit harsh on Pandora isn't it. She's an observer, a mediating narrative device between the Kesh and us. Pandora didn't create the world of the Kesh, in my mind, she is simply the part of Le Guin that is trying to understand it. Maybe instead we should be saying that we are like Dr Haber... isn't Pandora just one of us? "Legends for a new land" can be found in the proceedings of the 1989 World Fantasy Convention, it's called 'The roots of fantasy : myth, folklore and archetype' and was edited by Shelley Dutton Berry. There are no library holdings for this book in New Zealand (I think only 1050 copies of the book were produced) so if I ever want to read the essay, I'll have to interloan it from overseas at great cost. I don't suppose anyone has a copy of the essay do they? Jenn >From: Peter Seyferth >Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com >To: Ekumen >Subject: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and The Lathe of Heaven >Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:30:37 +0100 > >Hi. >I just finished rereading "The Lathe of Heaven". While reading, a strange >idea has occured to me: May it be that Pandora has a similar role to Dr. >Haber's? Of course, the utopias they create or try to create are very >different. But both kill billions of people for a better living. They both >change the environment and the landscape. And they both have good >intentions. I know that the idea is odd... > >BTW: Where can I find Le Guins essay "Legends for a New Land" that David >Bratman mentioned? It is not in one of her essay collections. > >-- Peter > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-834-1040321261-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Dec 19 10:07:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA17810 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:07:45 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-834-1040321261-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2002 18:07:41 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 19 Dec 2002 18:07:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 86657 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2002 18:07:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2002 18:07:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2002 18:07:40 -0000 Received: from smtp1.Stanford.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBJI7dJY007404 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:07:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from sls-258c (sls-258c.Stanford.EDU [171.64.212.237]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gBJI7dT7007399 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:07:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.20021219095211.00a37b70@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <4.1.20021218134740.00a2fe80@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> References: From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:07:50 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home: Le Guin articles on Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 I have here the specific order information on the Mythopoeic Society's publications of UKL writing about _Always Coming Home_. "Legends for a New Land," her article (originally a speech) on the genesis of the book, is in Mythlore issue 56, Winter 1988. It includes two maps drawn by her of the Navaho and Yurok views of the world, which IIRC are also in the World Fantasy Convention reprint, plus a gorgeous header illustration (not in the reprint) of the Valley of the Na, drawn from life by Patrick Wynne, illustrator of UKL's _Fish Soup_. (Patrick also drew the issue's cover illustration, of Tolkien's Galadriel.) "The Making of Always Coming Home," a panel discussion featuring UKL, Todd Barton, Margaret Chodos-Irvine, and George Hersh, is in Mythlore 65, Spring 1991. Both are available from the Mythopoeic Society. Issue 65 is in photocopy. Each costs $3.50, plus postage. The order form is at . Anyone really interested in ACH will want to read both of these. - David Bratman To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-835-1040321481-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Dec 19 10:11:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.93]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA19301 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:11:26 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-835-1040321481-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2002 18:11:22 -0000 X-Sender: dbratman@stanford.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 19 Dec 2002 18:11:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 25844 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2002 18:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2002 18:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.116) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2002 18:11:21 -0000 Received: from smtp2.Stanford.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBJIBK6b004931 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:11:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sls-258c (sls-258c.Stanford.EDU [171.64.212.237]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gBJIBKwV004926 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:11:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.20021219100800.00a77170@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> X-Sender: dbratman@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <002401c2a788$b7f9fdc0$179a50d8@com> References: <4.1.20021216102739.067f5008@dbratman.pobox.stanford.edu> From: "David S. Bratman" X-Yahoo-Profile: dbratman1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:11:32 -0800 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and time-space setting Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 At 10:01 AM 12/19/2002 , Darius wrote: >Thanks for your insightful response. It does help me a bit to come more to >terms with her setting, plot and characters, but I still feel she's too far >in the "past" for it to be "future". You're welcome. Do you think that perhaps UKL is trying to upset our notions of what the past and future must be like? Genly and Estraven dragging a sled cross-country is what we might think of as a "past"-like image, but it's set in the future too. How about _Rocannon's World_ and some of the recent Ekumen stories, with their echoing evocations of myth? - David Bratman To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-836-1040326409-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Dec 19 11:33:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA26615 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:33:34 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-836-1040326409-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2002 19:33:30 -0000 X-Sender: the_last_naiad@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 19 Dec 2002 19:33:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 69185 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2002 19:33:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2002 19:33:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.9.105) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2002 19:33:28 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:33:29 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.1 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:33:28 GMT To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Dec 2002 19:33:29.0003 (UTC) FILETIME=[81D5BFB0:01C2A795] From: "Jenn Martin" X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.1] X-Yahoo-Profile: wateryone MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 08:33:28 +1300 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and time-space setting Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 60 I believe it's a perfect kind of future... who wants to keep going foward if it means pollution, congestion and a lesser relationship with nature? In my mind, the right kind of 'going foward' would be peaceable, slow, circular... who says progress means you have to go foward in a linear, largess way? As the Creek say about the Porcupine... he is looking fowards, but going backwards. >From: "Darius Thieme" >Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and time-space setting >Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:01:54 -0600 > >David S. Bratman: >Thanks for your insightful response. It does help me a bit to come more to >terms with her setting, plot and characters, but I still feel she's too far >in the "past" for it to be "future". >Happy New Year-- Darius > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David S. Bratman > To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 12:37 PM > Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home and time-space setting > > > At 03:15 PM 12/15/2002 , Jenn wrote: > > >>Firstly, I have a "wonder;" I wonder why she describes what sounds >very > >>much like an imagined >southwest Indian cuture (with a mix of Hopi, >Apache > >>& Navaho elements) and places them in the distant >future in northern > >>California. > > > >I always thought it was just because she thought it sounded like a >better > >way to live. You know, tread lightly on the earth and all that. I >love the > >way people take a long while to do things in the valley, the paths >meander, > >pick their way around the roots of things, and I think that's what >people's > >lives are like too. No cars, no hurrying to get places, just focussing >on > >life and the landscape. > > Yes, and a lot more as well - their cosmology, for instance. The Kesh > don't really care what's over the next hill, unless they have to go >there > on business (or it's coming to them). They're content to be settled in > their own land. > > I don't think the Kesh are particuarly southwestern in style. They have >a > lot of the general California culture, and that of the North Coast >peoples, > as well. > > >As to why she set it in the future. So that she could speculate on a > >better, or maybe just different way to live I guess. And I can't say >for > >certain. But maybe she wanted to give the land back, in her own small >way. > > I'd guess it's set in the future partly because that gives the author > greater freedom of imagination. She can, for instance, change the > landscape, which she did dramatically, without worrying about historical > credibility. > > Also to shock the reader. There's a science-fiction myth of continued > "upward" progress. Le Guin dares to suggest we could have a future more > like that part of the past - and she wants to blame modern civilization >for > the problems faced by the Kesh (see "Pandora and the Archivist") and to > show that the Kesh can use ultra-modern technology (the City of Mind, >which > sounds a lot more like the Web than anything available at the time Le >Guin > wrote) without being absorbed by it. > > >This isn't to say that I think other people are wrong for being >interested > >in the more historical side of the book, I love all the detail, and >have > >poured over all the Native American handbooks and the encylopedia just >like > >everyone else, trying to glean information that helps me flesh out my >idea > >of the Kesh. But I do think that Le Guin is entirely right in setting >her > >book when and where she did. > > Insofar as the Kesh are like the Amerinds of the past, that can indeed > help. I've found her father's _Handbook of the Indians of California_ >very > interesting, especially for its focus on local micro-geography. > > - David Bratman > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.ZSp6B/dlOFAA/46VHAA/F77qlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-837-1040480063-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Dec 21 06:14:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id GAA18313 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2002 06:14:26 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-837-1040480063-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2002 14:14:24 -0000 X-Sender: shevek@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 21 Dec 2002 14:14:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 5870 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2002 14:14:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2002 14:14:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.92) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2002 14:14:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.132] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2002 14:14:22 -0000 To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021217011332.29911.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "takver_oz " X-Originating-IP: 203.123.64.150 X-Yahoo-Profile: takver_oz MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 14:14:20 -0000 Subject: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home & Sense of place Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 519 Hi Maya & everyone, I can appreciate the identification with a sense of place that Ursula creates in Always Coming Home. --- In the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com, maya ward wrote: > I so enjoyed reading all your thoughts on my favourite book, one that I have been pretty much alone with, for the ten years I have lived with it as a guide. I relate to much that Jenn writes, and I am jealous that she has her own place poeticised in such a way. Here in Australia there is far less nature writing or sense of place sensibility. > You are right that there is less nature writing here in Australia. Or perhaps it is simply harder to find because we are so preoccupied with the literature from North America and Europe. But there is nature writing and it does give us a sense of place. A couple of authors spring to mind. Patricia Wrightson is a children's author who writes using aboriginal myth and legends and occasionally interweaving these with European myths. Her 'Wirrun' series of novels is outstanding. Kath Walker (Oodgeroo Nunukal), in 'Stradbroke Dreamtime', shares her wonderful experiences of growing up on Stradbroke Island as part of the Nunukal tribe. She was one of the first aboriginal protest writers, deeply involved in the Land Rights and conservation movements in the 1960's. I know there are other authors who give a strong sense of place for Australia, but I fear you need to search for them. Another example. Ursula Le Guin provided the textual collaboration with photographer Roger Dorland for the book "Blue Moon over Thurman Street", in which they attempt to tell the story of the street in text and photographs. It is a journey along one street from the industrial inner city to the semirural. It gives a marvellous sense of the social changes in this one street. In terms of a book describing a sense of place for Melbourne, one of the best is 'Radical Melbourne: a secret history' by Jeff and Jill Sparrow. This is social and political history at its best and the authors take you on a tour of various buildings in the city of Melbourne and tell you stories connected with those buildings, including using many archival photos. I think having a sense of place and a sense of history are important wherever you are. Happy Summer (or Winter) Solstice everyone! --- with solidarity Takver (from Melbourne, Australia) Radical Tradition, an anarchist and radical Australasian History Page http://www.takver.com/history/index.htm Visit Anarres Books - http://www.anarres.org.au To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-838-1041293954-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Dec 30 16:19:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA12413 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2002 16:19:20 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-838-1041293954-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Dec 2002 00:19:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 47669 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2002 00:19:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Dec 2002 00:19:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2002 00:19:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ericalefey@yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.151] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Dec 2002 00:19:12 -0000 X-Sender: ericalefey@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 30 Dec 2002 23:36:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 71942 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2002 23:36:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Dec 2002 23:36:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web14806.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.224.222) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Dec 2002 23:36:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20021230233630.61078.qmail@web14806.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.150.17.29] by web14806.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:36:30 PST To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com From: Erica Mazzola X-Yahoo-Profile: ericalefey X-eGroups-Approved-By: dayvoll via web; 31 Dec 2002 00:19:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:36:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [the-ekumen] hi Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 185 There are other people besides me who read Ursula LeGuin! Wow. I have long considered her my favorite author, but just now thought to look up info about her on the net. I was actually looking for the title of my favorite group of short stories to reccomend it to a friend. I had borrowed the book from the library, and now can't remember the title. Well, I'm interested to see if I will get any reply to this, and what you all will be like. Hope to hear from ya'll soon. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-2266408-839-1041295498-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Dec 30 16:45:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by walnut.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA23330 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2002 16:45:07 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-839-1041295498-lq2=feministsf.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Dec 2002 00:45:01 -0000 X-Sender: fredr@gci-net.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 31 Dec 2002 00:44:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 11284 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2002 00:44:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Dec 2002 00:44:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gci-net.com) (216.183.68.100) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2002 00:44:59 -0000 Received: from [216.183.66.49] (HELO fredrunk) by gci-net.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 5144298 for the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 30 Dec 2002 17:44:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021230174454.008e2510@216.183.68.100> X-Sender: fredr@216.183.68.100 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021230233630.61078.qmail@web14806.mail.yahoo.com> From: Fred Runk X-Yahoo-Profile: fnrunk MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 17:44:54 -0700 Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] hi Reply-To: the-ekumen@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 188 At 03:36 PM 12/30/02 -0800, you wrote: >on the net. I was actually looking for the title of my >favorite group of short stories to reccomend it to a >friend. I had borrowed the book from the library, and >now can't remember the title. She has a number of collections out: Buffalo Gals and other Animal Presences, The Compass Rose, Orsinian Tales, and The Wind's Twelve Quarters are four that I have. I think there are several others. Well, I'm interested to >see if I will get any reply to this, and what you all >will be like. Hope to hear from ya'll soon. > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > -=Fred=- Friends part Forever--Wild Geese Lost in cloud. - Basho - email: fredr@gci-net.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/