From ???@??? Mon Oct 23 18:11:39 2000 Received: from fl.egroups.com (fl.egroups.com [208.50.144.74]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA24320 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:27:28 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-1-971389538-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.36] by fl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Oct 2000 22:25:40 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@enteract.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_1_0); 12 Oct 2000 22:25:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 32675 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2000 22:25:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Oct 2000 22:25:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Oct 2000 22:25:37 -0000 Received: from [207.229.142.159] (207-229-142-159.d.enteract.com [207.229.142.159]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA91247 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:25:35 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dayvoll@enteract.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Day Voll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:22:55 -0500 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Welcome new members... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: c8cda990f7b749cb1dd9e7fd5e2842af Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3227 Greetings, fellow Le Guin fans. I see by the Ekumen Members page on eGroups that there are a handful of folks here now so I thought I'd go ahead and post something. Given that I've only just started promoting the list it's nice to see that we've already attracted some members. Based on my experience with other lists, I expect that it may be kind of quiet here until the membership reaches critical mass; but feel free to prove me wrong. If you want to post and introduce yourselves, mention your favorite Le Guin books or raise questions, by all means don't hold back. I recognize a couple of folks here from the Russell Hoban list, but I'll go ahead and introduce myself to the group at large. I'm Dave Awl, what eGroups calls the "List Owner"--though having just re-read The Dispossessed I find that a little "propertarian" and prefer the more old-fashioned "List Operator." I've been a Le Guin fan since adolescence; I think the first UKL book I read was the wonderful Very Far Away from Anywhere Else, a kind of intellectual's Judy Blume novel. I remember the book did wonders for helping me learn to feel good about myself and deal with the difficulty of growing up as a cerebral bookworm in a small midwestern town. And while the protagonist, Owen Griffiths, is ostensibly straight, there was a lot for a gay kid to identify with in his rejection of the regular-guy gender role. I started up the list because I've been reading through UKL's Hainish novels in order of publication. When I found out about the release of The Telling, the new Hainish novel, I decided I wanted to re-read the others so that I could put it in the proper "historical context" of Le Guin's universe. And when I was developing my Hoban site, I learned that reading an author's books in sequence, in a very short space of time, is very different experience from reading them one at a time, spread out over many years. You discover lots of wonderful interconnections, recurring motifs and broad themes that you miss if it's been five years since you read the last book. That's been true with Le Guin just as it was with Hoban--a number of the books have taken on even richer significance for me, because I have a better grasp of the "big story" that the books all form together. I'm about halfway through The Telling now and enjoying it quite a bit. I love the sly digs at Starbucks and the very relevant critique of global corporate culture. As I've been re-reading the books, I've been trying to construct a book-by-book historical timeline that locates each book in the history of the Hainish Universe. That's mainly because as I was reading the early books I became aware of that "big story" for the first time, and the fact that the order in which the books were published is different from the order in which the stories take place, in the Hainish universe. I wanted to create a document that will help resolve some of the questions I had about the big story as I was reading. Fredrik Petersson already has a very useful History of the Hainish Worlds, on his Le Guin's World site, and it helped resolve some of my questions. Fredrik's History is in the form of an article or background sketch; what I'm working on now is a timeline that puts the books in story order, and describes the key plot developments that link the books in sequence. At any rate, as I continue to work on that I may be posting questions about it to the list to see if any of you can fill in the gaps in my own knowledge or understanding. Sorry to be so longwinded on the first post. I'll close by saying please help spread the word about the list to any other Le Guin fans you know who may be interested. It'll take a while before The Ekumen starts showing up on search engines, so in the meantime word of mouth is the best way to help our community grow. best, Dave Awl -- ____________________________________________________________________ "We believe that we invent symbols. The truth is that they invent us; we are their creatures, shaped by their hard, defining edges." --Gene Wolfe, The Shadow of the Torturer Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/3/_/_/_/971389538/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Mon Oct 23 18:19:35 2000 Received: from hl.egroups.com (hl.egroups.com [208.50.99.197]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA22698 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:52:47 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-2-972175572-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.36] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2000 00:46:13 -0000 X-Sender: nebula009@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_1_0); 22 Oct 2000 00:46:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 17752 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2000 00:46:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Oct 2000 00:46:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web9406.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.129.22) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Oct 2000 00:46:12 -0000 Message-ID: <20001022004611.1273.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [142.66.53.38] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:46:11 PDT To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: izzy rubin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] hi everyone!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 81d86382843abe7f8d081f2f88c94226 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5272 i just recently signed up, and this is the first time that i've ever used 'e-groups', so it'll take me a while to get the hang of this. i'm very excited to have found this group, although i have just started reading ms. le guin's work, so far all i've read is the left hand of darkness, the lathe of heaven, and very far away from anywhere but here. (also, i've read the first two catwing books)!! but my favorite so far is definately the left hand of darkness. that's all i really have to say for now, but again i can't wait to hear from the rest of you. :) izzy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/3/_/_/_/972175572/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Mon Oct 23 18:20:01 2000 Received: from ck.egroups.com (ck.egroups.com [208.50.144.69]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA20452 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:45:49 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-3-972279948-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.38] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2000 05:45:46 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_1_0); 23 Oct 2000 05:45:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 29992 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2000 05:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Oct 2000 05:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Oct 2000 05:45:47 -0000 Received: from [216.80.34.2] (207-229-172-86.d.enteract.com [207.229.172.86]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA91066 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:45:46 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20001022004611.1273.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20001022004611.1273.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Day Voll MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:44:54 -0500 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] hi everyone!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 159b4792faa73436d7a6f4a61e1fd882 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5372 Hi, Izzy! Welcome to the list. >i just recently signed up, and this is the first time >that i've ever used 'e-groups', so it'll take me a >while to get the hang of this. Don't sweat it. It's a new group, and there aren't a lot of members here yet. I think we can afford to be patient while we all get the hang of our new community. As I've said before, there may not be a whole lot of activity here until the list grows a bit, but we do seem to be adding members steadily. >i'm very excited to have found this group, although i >have just started reading ms. le guin's work, so far >all i've read is the left hand of darkness, the lathe >of heaven, and very far away from anywhere but here. >(also, i've read the first two catwing books)!! but >my favorite so far is definately the left hand of >darkness. Sounds like you've made a good start. If you're looking for where to go from here, The Dispossessed would be a good move: it's one of the few novels to win both Nebula and Hugo awards, and it's one of UKL's most thought-provoking books (which is saying a thing). Of her recent books, I'd recommend Four Ways to Forgiveness as being extremely powerful. The Wind's Twelve Quarters has stories that tie into a number of UKL's books, including a story set on Gethen from The Left Hand of Darkness. And of course if you like fantasy (and maybe even if you don't) you'll want to read the poetic and haunting Earthsea Quartet--soon to be a Quintet, or maybe even Sextet if you count the rumored book of short stories. Dave Awl -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/3/_/_/_/972279948/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Thu Nov 30 17:39:11 2000 Received: from jk.egroups.com (jk.egroups.com [208.50.144.83]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07812 for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:50:35 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-4-974580634-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.55] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Nov 2000 20:50:35 -0000 X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_2_1); 18 Nov 2000 20:50:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 23282 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2000 20:50:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Nov 2000 20:50:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mendota.terracom.net) (208.170.71.129) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Nov 2000 21:51:38 -0000 Received: from [208.170.95.15] (3C2-53.terracom.net [208.170.95.53]) by mendota.terracom.net (8.9.1a/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA14697 for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:52:37 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: dsalo@pop.softhome.net Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: David Salo MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:53:20 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] The Telling Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 318d32334d22be75a2be37f463cb3f48 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 897 I've been an admirer of Ursula LeGuin's work for many years, since I read "A Wizard of Earthsea" as a child. I still prefer the Earthsea stories (all of them) to the "Hainish Cycle". But I very much enjoyed LeGuin's latest novel, _The Telling_. The size of the hardback volume is a bit deceptive; the wide margins and spacing indicate that this book will probably make a pretty slim paperback. I have no idea where "novella" stops, or "novel" begins, so I don't know if it's accurately classed, but it is a quick read. LeGuin's creativity is always rooted in our conventional world. I had not read very far in _The Telling_ before I said to myself, "Oh, she's talking about (The People's Republic of) China." But in fact there are numerous culture-destroying states which could serve as a comparable model. None of them, however, has made quite as thorough-going a cultural purge as the Dovzan Corporation. Reviewers seem to regard this state, with some surprise as a strange mixture of capitalism and communism. But it's not a very long reach for LeGuin, and should come as no surprise to any student of political systems: for a very long time now, capitalism and communism have shared the common myth of the salvific potential of technology, and have preached the benefits to be gained by the effective organization of workers under a directing hierarchy. The Soviet State was, effectively, an immense, monopolistic, closely held corporation. The differences between the systems are not really about social organization but about efficiency: does competition between corporate units drive out inefficient and unproductive units, allowing the most productive and efficient units to thrive? Or is it a wasteful expenditure of productive energy, since efficiency could be imposed by careful, scientific planning? We don't get a good enough look at the Dovzan Corporation to know for certain which side they come down on; one may guess, however, that they allow a mixture of low-to-mid-level competition combined with overall bureaucratic control, much like the system in place in the modern PRC. The highland peoples of Aka, on the other hand, reminded me of Tibetans. Of course, there's supposed to be less of a "national" distinction between the speakers of Rangma and of Dovzan (despite their different languages) than there is between the Chinese and the Tibetans. And the highland Akans are both more 'rationalistic' in religion (or what passes for religion among them) and more intrinsically mercantile in culture than the Tibetans are, or were. Nonetheless, the mountain scenery and the nomenclature (Rangma, Silong) are reminiscent of Tibet. "The Telling" -- the native Akan religion -- is pretty clearly (and more or less explicitly) modelled on Taoism, as LeGuin understands it. The narrator, Sutty's, understanding of the Telling changes throughout the book, and you're never quite sure if she's gotten it right (and how much more than approximate can any anthropologist's understanding of a culture be?). What Sutty ends up classifying as the Akan sacred writings turns out to be, in fact, their entire body of native literature (written in ideograms -- again, explicitly modelled on the Chinese writing system). This includes not just what we'd call "religious literature", but also historical and pseudo-historical legends, astrology, herbalism, exercise, as well as more recent accounts of events. But the Akans only write down, or tell, what "goes right" -- an incompletely explained concept -- and so have no record of the events in Dovza surrounding the building of the Corporate state, when things indubitably "went wrong". We find out eventually that the rot predates the Corporation, going back to a time when (at least in Dovza), certain of the _maz_ (scholars, or teachers -- more or less equivalent to religious functionaries) became "bosses" and took political and social control. The Dovzan revolution, and its anti-religious reaction were in response to the oppression of the boss maz, which they replaced with an oppression of their own. Since everything we know about Aka is filtered through Sutty, we have to take her account with a grain of salt. Raised as a member of an oppressed minority in the grip of a destructive, fundamentalist state, she has a distrust of all forms of religion, which she never quite loses. She comes to grip with the native Akan religious traditions by draining them of their religious character, differentiating between what to her is a dross of superficial "HP" ("Hocus-Pocus") and a substrate of valuable teachings that work on a social, economic, philosophical, and ethical level. These teachings had produced many millennia of social homeostasis ("stagnation" from the Dovzan point of view) which had only recently been upset, with catastrophic results. The new ideology is that of the "March to the Stars" -- a commitment to technological progress, cumulating in the acquisition of space flight which could place them on par with the worlds of the Ekumen. Sutty in time comes to perceive this ideology as the equivalent of the fundamentalist religious ideologies which had oppressed her. The Dovzan bureaucrats, by contrast, assume that their attempts to assimilate technology (ultimately of Ekumenical origin) will be viewed far more sympathetically by the observers of the Ekumen than the reactionary "rotten-corpse ideology" of the highlands. They fail to understand that the observers are more interested in unique cultures, than in imitations of their own. Sutty finds "religion" unsatisfactory as a word describing the Telling, which she views as a culturally unifying web of story set within a deeply mercantile society (all stories, or teachings, must be paid for -- though there appears to be some notion of a fair price, and it is considered wrong to be extortionate). But clearly there are religious aspects to The Telling. I think that Sutty (and LeGuin?) may be missing the distorting effect of the Corporation itself. By labelling all aspects of pre-Corporate culture "religion", and banning it all without exception, they have created an artificial unity to a diverse body of cultural practices. It seems to me doubtful whether there really was a "Telling" per se before the Corporation set it up as the enemy -- probably there was just literature, oral and written, religious, legendary, and scientific. >From that point of view the _maz_ were just teachers (however much honored), and the _umyazu_ were just schools or libraries. The Telling wasn't a religion or even a specific cultural practice; it was just the Akan mode of life-long education. By banning it, the Corporation rendered it all of equal value, and worthy of protection: "holy", in a sense. Retrospectively, then, all umyazu become temples (houses of holy writings) and all maz become priests (speakers of the holy word). That's not to say that these elements didn't exist, potentially, in these offices; but by the time Sutty arrives on Aka, the the scientific and the superstitious, the religious and the secular, have become mixed together and hard to disentangle. LeGuin doesn't say any of this, of course, and may not intend it. I think that it is still a plausible reading of the situation, and explains some of Sutty's perplexity. There are a lot of other things to say about The Telling, many of them perplexing. What are we to say of the legends of "riding the wind", flying by psychic powers (once or twice given brief confirmation, which is then placed into doubt)? This motif appears repeatedly, and significantly. What about the notions of "right" and "wrong", significantly placed in juxtaposition with regard to both Sutty's self-analysis of her observation, and the understanding of the maz about the modes of telling a story? I hope that someone will explore some of these in greater depth than I can at present. David Salo /\ WISTR LAG WIGS RAIHTS \/ WRAIQS NU IST <> David Salo <> -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/974580634/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Thu Nov 30 17:39:29 2000 Received: from hm.egroups.com (hm.egroups.com [208.50.99.198]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA13780 for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 17:47:30 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-5-974598434-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.53] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 19 Nov 2000 01:47:29 -0000 X-Sender: dfabi@shrike.depaul.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_2_1); 19 Nov 2000 01:47:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 81194 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2000 01:47:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Nov 2000 01:47:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mv.egroups.com) (10.1.1.41) by mta3 with SMTP; 19 Nov 2000 02:48:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: dfabi@shrike.depaul.edu Received: from [10.1.10.96] by mv.egroups.com with NNFMP; 19 Nov 2000 01:47:13 -0000 To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Message-ID: <8v7bes+10dok@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.48.144.49 From: dfabi@students.depaul.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 01:47:08 -0000 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] "Mountain Ways" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 76e71f12a6ab391ec5edc88b16633b47 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 919 Just telling all other Ekumeners out there that there is a fabulous Hainish story by Le Guin in the new Asmiov's Utopias paperback anthology that just came out. It's called "Mountain Ways" and set on the world of O, the same world where "A Fisherman from the Inland Sea" was set. It's a fabulous story of tolerance and love, so I advise everyone to check it out. However, the ending leaves you hanging.....what happens in the end? (Does she end up killing all of her spouses?) D. Fabi -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/974598434/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Thu Nov 30 17:43:12 2000 Received: from mu.egroups.com (mu.egroups.com [208.50.99.218]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA11479 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:46:56 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-6-974872001-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.55] by mu.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2000 05:46:47 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 22 Nov 2000 05:46:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 86231 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2000 05:46:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2000 05:46:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Nov 2000 06:47:46 -0000 Received: from [207.229.142.180] (207-229-172-26.d.enteract.com [207.229.172.26]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02078 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:46:38 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <974680175.63626@egroups.com> References: <974680175.63626@egroups.com> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:45:48 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Mountain Ways and The Telling Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: b3f093db976114d713bbdcc13e4fdaeb Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1713 Hey Ekumeners, Nice to see that folks are starting to post here. D. Fabi wrote: >Just telling all other Ekumeners out there that there is a fabulous >Hainish story by Le Guin in the new Asmiov's Utopias paperback >anthology that just came out. It's called "Mountain Ways" and set on >the world of O, the same world where "A Fisherman from the Inland >Sea" was set. Thanks for the tip on that. I'll try to remember to mention that when I do the next news update to The Ekumen Web site. I assume most of you have taken a look at the Ekumen news section (http://www.ocelotfactory.com/leguin/news.html). Probably the biggest news there is actually buried toward the bottom of the page--that there are two new Earthsea books in the pipline, a novel and a book of short stories. The main news I'd *like* to be able to post on the site is if Ms. Le Guin will be doing any appearances or booksignings in connection with The Telling. I heard a rumor somewhere that she would, but haven't heard anything since, and now it's a couple months past release so if anything happened it may be over now anyway. Or maybe it'll happen next year when the paperback comes out? If anyone hears anything about this, please let me know. David Salo, thanks for posting that thoughtful review of the Telling. You wrote: > I have no idea where "novella" stops, or "novel" begins, so I >don't know if it's accurately classed, but it is a quick read. For what it's worth, The SFWA site has the following classifications: >a.Short Story: less than 7,500 words. >b.Novelette: at least 7,500 words but less than 17,500 words. >c.Novella: at least 17,500 words but less than 40,000 words. >d.Novel: 40,000 words or more. Of course, since none of us is about to go through and count the words that doesn't help a whole lot. Still, I think your hunch is correct, that if The Telling were condensed a bit, with a more conventional page density, you'd probably have about a 100 page book--more of a novella, like The Word for World is Forest. > LeGuin's creativity is always rooted in our conventional world. I had >not read very far in _The Telling_ before I said to myself, "Oh, she's >talking about (The People's Republic of) China." But in fact there are >numerous culture-destroying states which could serve as a comparable model. My own perspective is that Le Guin isn't pointing to a particular nation-state on Earth with her conception of The Corporation--rather, she's creating a parallel to the rapidly congealing hegemony of multinational corporations in the world today. We have a situation where various corporations are collaborating and coalescing to form a kind of de facto world state that is answerable to no authority other than itself. Some of these corporations operate simultaneously in countries around the globe, have greater financial resources than many of the nations they operate in, and recognize no goal, purpose or morality other than profit. If some pesky country or other tries to enact environmental or labor laws to restrain the behavior of those corporations, the corporations simply use the World Trade Organization to severely penalize those countries for "restricting" or "stifling" trade, because trade of course is more important then anything else, whether it's whales or rainforests or even human babies. The laws get overturned and the corporation-state is free to continue on its rapacious way, free of democratic checks and balances. Hence the anti-WTO/globalization protests that began in Seattle months ago, and have continued in other cities ever since. In the philosphy of the WTO, nothing whatsoever must be allowed to challenge the importance of trade--it takes on almost a sacred role in the value system of the corporate world economy. In that, I think, you can see the beginnings of UKL's vision of a corporation-state that becomes indistinguishable from a dogmatic religion. And by making subtle fun of Starbucks (a favorite target of anti-globalization protesters) in several places, I think UKL is signaling her solidarity with the protesters' goals and message, if not all of their tactics. That's my pair of pennies on it, anyway. Dave Awl -- _______________________________________________ The new, improved Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/974872001/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Thu Nov 30 17:43:12 2000 Received: from fj.egroups.com (fj.egroups.com [64.211.240.231]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA12750 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:54:21 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-7-974876061-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by fj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2000 06:54:21 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 22 Nov 2000 06:54:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 24191 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2000 06:54:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2000 06:54:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Nov 2000 06:54:20 -0000 Received: from [207.229.142.180] (207-229-172-228.d.enteract.com [207.229.172.228]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19833 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 00:54:18 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 00:53:21 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] one other thing... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: d2a46d9569a16033a87b3921d7a51549 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1717 ...although we're gradually picking up members here, growth is kind of slow because Yahoo hasn't gotten around to listing The Ekumen yet, and it's still not showing up on most search engines. (Hooray for Google and The Open Directory Project, which are both acknowledging it, although of course it doesn't rank very highly yet.) For any of you who maintain Web sites yourself, I'd be grateful if you'd consider adding a link to The Ekumen at: http://www.ocelotfactory.com/leguin This will not only help steer traffic from your pages, it'll also help The Ekumen rank higher with certain search engines that evaluate the number of links to a given site in determining results. All in the service of helping Le Guin fans find their way to the list. Dave -- _______________________________________________ The new, improved Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/974876061/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Thu Nov 30 17:44:21 2000 Received: from ei.egroups.com (ei.egroups.com [208.50.99.235]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA17116 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:11:33 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-8-974949092-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.54] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Nov 2000 03:11:32 -0000 X-Sender: dsalo@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 23 Nov 2000 03:11:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 73018 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 03:11:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 03:11:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mendota.terracom.net) (208.170.71.129) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 04:12:35 -0000 Received: from [208.170.95.76] (3C2-76.terracom.net [208.170.95.76]) by mendota.terracom.net (8.9.1a/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14825 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:13:35 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: dsalo@pop.softhome.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <974680175.63626@egroups.com> <974680175.63626@egroups.com> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: David Salo MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:12:43 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Mountain Ways and The Telling Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 8b47d68df73ad66b854855622be851d0 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1884 Dave Awl wrote: >For what it's worth, The SFWA site has the following classifications: > >>a.Short Story: less than 7,500 words. >>b.Novelette: at least 7,500 words but less than 17,500 words. >>c.Novella: at least 17,500 words but less than 40,000 words. >>d.Novel: 40,000 words or more. The Telling is technically a novel, then, since with 264 pages of 240-260 words each, it must have about 65,000 words. (It's still pretty short). >My own perspective is that Le Guin isn't pointing to a particular >nation-state on Earth with her conception of The Corporation--rather, >she's creating a parallel to the rapidly congealing hegemony of >multinational corporations in the world today. I won't contest this -- obviously, it's science fiction, and the description could have many targets and multiple interpretations. In any case, the satire is subordinated to the story. This is something which critics who have responded unfavorably to the book miss: they seem incapable of understanding that a novel is not a political tract and should not be judged as one, even if it does have political ideas. These critics appear to be the same ones who blasted _Tehanu_ (apparently, because it approached the world of Earthsea from the perspective of a woman rather than a boy or young man). I think that the politics and/or religious beliefs of an author should be irrelevant to one's judgment of the _story_. I've read the works of E.R. Eddison with great enjoyment, despite the fact that the author's political beliefs (as expressed in the works themselves) were one stripe this side of fascism. I've enjoyed the works of C.S. Lewis, though I dislike being the object of proselytization. This is because, in both cases, the political and religious opinions of the authors -- though clearly expressed within the texts -- are subordinated to the stories, which can be enjoyed in and of themselves regardless of whether you believe in aristocratic dictatorships or the salvific powers of giant lions. Le Guin obviously has opinions about politics and religion, which anyone is free to disagree with in whole or in part. What I find objectionable is that some people find it impossible to judge her stories without checking whether they agree with her views or not. I have not yet, however, seen any of LeGuin's say "well, I don't agree with Le Guin's point of view, but I have to admit she writes a good yarn". _Mutatis mutandis_, it's equally objectionable to see someone (I'm not referring to anyone here, of course!) praise LeGuin's work only for its political content, while clearly having no appreciation of its artistic merit. /\ WISTR LAG WIGS RAIHTS \/ WRAIQS NU IST <> David Salo <> -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/1/_/_/_/974949092/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Thu Nov 30 17:44:43 2000 Received: from cj.egroups.com (cj.egroups.com [208.50.144.68]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA20156 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 06:05:02 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-9-975074694-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.55] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2000 14:05:02 -0000 X-Sender: peson42@hem.passagen.se X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 24 Nov 2000 14:04:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 12934 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2000 14:04:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2000 14:04:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.passagen.se) (195.163.107.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Nov 2000 14:04:52 -0000 Received: from peson (peson.interactiveinstitute.se [195.149.141.30]) by mail2.passagen.se (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.22) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 15:04:46 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <001401c0561f$98aca4c0$1e8d95c3@interactiveinstitute.se> To: References: <974680175.63626@egroups.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-eGroups-From: "Fredrik Petersson" From: "Fredrik Petersson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 15:05:21 +0100 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Le Guin's World -- anything you want to add? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 4cb70b51f686b227dcac708b67f6e112 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1965 Hi all. As you might know I have this site called Le Guin's World (http://surf.to/le.guin/) It's been sadly neglected, but I'm going to do some work on it now... so, who wants to help? First of all, I am a bit concerned that some sort of turf war is going to break out between Le Guin's World and the Ekumen. That would really be a shame, and I hope we can work together. I had some ideas of starting a discussion forum for Le Guin's World (actually I got one of those free web boards somewhere) but now I won't -- the Ekumen mailing list seems to come along fine and I'll just direct people here instead. Anyway, I am going to freshen Le Guin's World up. And if you want to help you're highly welcome. In particular I'd like to see more additions to the Hainish Encyclopedia (and maybe even create an Earthsea Encyclopedia...), and images of book covers. And maybe reviews. And of course, do notify me of any errrors or omissions. Or submit anything else you think seem fit. Just mail it to me (peson@bigfoot.com) - NOT to this mailing list! Enjoy the weekend (it's friday afternoon over here in Sweden...) / Fredrik ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Awl To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 6:45 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Mountain Ways and The Telling Hey Ekumeners, Nice to see that folks are starting to post here. D. Fabi wrote: >Just telling all other Ekumeners out there that there is a fabulous >Hainish story by Le Guin in the new Asmiov's Utopias paperback >anthology that just came out. It's called "Mountain Ways" and set on >the world of O, the same world where "A Fisherman from the Inland >Sea" was set. Thanks for the tip on that. I'll try to remember to mention that when I do the next news update to The Ekumen Web site. I assume most of you have taken a look at the Ekumen news section (http://www.ocelotfactory.com/leguin/news.html). Probably the biggest news there is actually buried toward the bottom of the page--that there are two new Earthsea books in the pipline, a novel and a book of short stories. The main news I'd *like* to be able to post on the site is if Ms. Le Guin will be doing any appearances or booksignings in connection with The Telling. I heard a rumor somewhere that she would, but haven't heard anything since, and now it's a couple months past release so if anything happened it may be over now anyway. Or maybe it'll happen next year when the paperback comes out? If anyone hears anything about this, please let me know. David Salo, thanks for posting that thoughtful review of the Telling. You wrote: > I have no idea where "novella" stops, or "novel" begins, so I >don't know if it's accurately classed, but it is a quick read. For what it's worth, The SFWA site has the following classifications: >a.Short Story: less than 7,500 words. >b.Novelette: at least 7,500 words but less than 17,500 words. >c.Novella: at least 17,500 words but less than 40,000 words. >d.Novel: 40,000 words or more. Of course, since none of us is about to go through and count the words that doesn't help a whole lot. Still, I think your hunch is correct, that if The Telling were condensed a bit, with a more conventional page density, you'd probably have about a 100 page book--more of a novella, like The Word for World is Forest. > LeGuin's creativity is always rooted in our conventional world. I had >not read very far in _The Telling_ before I said to myself, "Oh, she's >talking about (The People's Republic of) China." But in fact there are >numerous culture-destroying states which could serve as a comparable model. My own perspective is that Le Guin isn't pointing to a particular nation-state on Earth with her conception of The Corporation--rather, she's creating a parallel to the rapidly congealing hegemony of multinational corporations in the world today. We have a situation where various corporations are collaborating and coalescing to form a kind of de facto world state that is answerable to no authority other than itself. Some of these corporations operate simultaneously in countries around the globe, have greater financial resources than many of the nations they operate in, and recognize no goal, purpose or morality other than profit. If some pesky country or other tries to enact environmental or labor laws to restrain the behavior of those corporations, the corporations simply use the World Trade Organization to severely penalize those countries for "restricting" or "stifling" trade, because trade of course is more important then anything else, whether it's whales or rainforests or even human babies. The laws get overturned and the corporation-state is free to continue on its rapacious way, free of democratic checks and balances. Hence the anti-WTO/globalization protests that began in Seattle months ago, and have continued in other cities ever since. In the philosphy of the WTO, nothing whatsoever must be allowed to challenge the importance of trade--it takes on almost a sacred role in the value system of the corporate world economy. In that, I think, you can see the beginnings of UKL's vision of a corporation-state that becomes indistinguishable from a dogmatic religion. And by making subtle fun of Starbucks (a favorite target of anti-globalization protesters) in several places, I think UKL is signaling her solidarity with the protesters' goals and message, if not all of their tactics. That's my pair of pennies on it, anyway. Dave Awl -- _______________________________________________ The new, improved Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/975074694/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Thu Nov 30 17:45:26 2000 Received: from mw.egroups.com (mw.egroups.com [208.50.144.94]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09801 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 10:34:52 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-10-975263685-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2000 18:34:50 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 26 Nov 2000 18:34:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 16778 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2000 18:34:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2000 18:34:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Nov 2000 18:34:44 -0000 Received: from [207.229.142.179] (207-229-142-157.d.enteract.com [207.229.142.157]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20918 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 12:34:42 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001401c0561f$98aca4c0$1e8d95c3@interactiveinstitute.se> References: <974680175.63626@egroups.com> <001401c0561f$98aca4c0$1e8d95c3@interactiveinstitute.se> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 12:33:06 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Le Guin's World Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 1be0c0e42ea460c87ad34cd6fda394a0 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2107 At 3:05 PM +0100 11/24/00, Fredrik Petersson wrote: >First of all, I am a bit concerned that some sort of turf war is >going to break out between Le Guin's World and the Ekumen. That >would really be a shame, and I hope we can work together. I very much hope that nothing like that will ever come to pass. I certainly won't allow The Ekumen to be used for any kind of hostile or competitive purposes--rather, I hope it will be a tool that allows us to work together, coordinate our efforts, and generally share a sense of community. As you know, I have nothing but respect for the work you've done on Le Guin's World, and the work Laura Quilter has done on her site. It seems natural to me that Le Guin fans would gravitate toward a cooperative rather than a competitive model. When I set up The Ekumen, I did my best to avoid stepping on any toes; so I didn't bother setting up a complete site with a bibliography, biography, etc., because others had already done those things very well. Rather, I tried to focus on things that hadn't already been done, so my site could complement the other ones out there rather than competing in any way. At present, The Ekumen Web site's only purpose is to serve as a home page for this list, to attract new members and explain the list rules, and provide quick convenient news updates. I doubt it's going to expand much past that. Even the "Hainish Timeline" I was working on is now on hold and I don't know if I'll ever finish it. Rest assured that I have no interest in duplicating other people's efforts, especially when others have done such an excellent job with their pages. So I'm glad you raised this issue, just in case anyone else was worrying about it. As far as I'm concerned, we're all allies in this, and will all benefit from mutual support. A rising tide lifts all boats, as they say. >I had some ideas of starting a discussion forum for Le Guin's World >(actually I got one of those free web boards somewhere) but now I >won't -- the Ekumen mailing list seems to come along fine and I'll >just direct people here instead. Thanks, Fredrik, I appreciate that. And thanks to both Fredrik and Laura for providing links to The Ekumen. >Anyway, I am going to freshen Le Guin's World up. And if you want to >help you're highly welcome. In particular I'd like to see more >additions to the Hainish Encyclopedia (and maybe even create an >Earthsea Encyclopedia...), and images of book covers. And maybe >reviews. And of course, do notify me of any errrors or omissions. Sounds great--glad to hear the site is going to be getting an update. If I can figure out any way to help I'll be glad to do it. best, Dave Awl -- _______________________________________________ The new, improved Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/975263685/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Thu Nov 30 17:47:40 2000 Received: from jk.egroups.com (jk.egroups.com [208.50.144.83]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA29548 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:23:13 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-11-975442992-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.52] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2000 20:23:13 -0000 X-Sender: ventus@poczta.onet.pl X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 28 Nov 2000 20:23:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 18773 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2000 20:22:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Nov 2000 20:22:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ck.egroups.com) (10.1.2.83) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Nov 2000 20:22:29 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ventus@poczta.onet.pl Received: from [10.1.10.113] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2000 20:22:28 -0000 To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Message-ID: <901462+kecv@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 193.0.110.144 From: "Surion Epeirodis" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 20:22:26 -0000 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] am new here Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 58af848ea74f552ffe75c0be83cd9eb7 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2376 Hail!, I've recently read "The City of Illusions" and "The Left Hand of Darkness" (having previuosly read also whole Earthsea). The first of mentioned books amazed me very much. This is why I subsribed to this e-list and read her other books. I hope to write something more soon and to see more members here! Salutation! Surion Epeirodis -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/975442992/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Thu Nov 30 17:48:08 2000 Received: from hm.egroups.com (hm.egroups.com [208.50.99.198]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA06108 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:22:46 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-12-975450165-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.54] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2000 22:22:45 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 28 Nov 2000 22:22:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 37897 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2000 22:21:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2000 22:21:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Nov 2000 22:21:55 -0000 Received: from [207.229.142.168] (207-229-172-222.d.enteract.com [207.229.172.222]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24750 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:21:52 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <901462+kecv@eGroups.com> References: <901462+kecv@eGroups.com> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:20:47 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] am new here Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: df8a72eed088a58974d742bb4df24662 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2425 Surion wrote: > I've recently read "The City of Illusions" and "The Left Hand of >Darkness" (having previuosly read also whole Earthsea). > The first of mentioned books amazed me very much. This is why I >subsribed to this e-list and read her other books. > I hope to write something more soon and to see more members here! Hi Surion, welcome to the list! I'm planning to re-read the Earthsea books sometime over the winter, so I'm ready if and when those new Earthsea books materialize. I just finished re-reading the whole Hainish canon, and it was the first time I had read the first three novels: Rocannon's World, Planet of Exile and City of Illusions. I think the fascinating thing about those books is the way you can see UKL finding her style, from the relative clunkiness (and heavy Tolkien borrowing) of Rocannon to the graceful, confident style that has materialized by City of Illusions (and really crystallizes in Left Hand of Darkness). Gradually over the trilogy she moves away from Tolkien's inventions and discovers her own. And in the middle book, Planet of Exile, not only does UKL's prose gain a sudden beauty that's missing from the first book, she also seems to discover an emphasis on character and relationships that stays with her through the rest of her career. At least, that's how it looks to me. One book I didn't get around to re-reading yet is The Eye of the Heron, which I last read about 20 years ago. I can't remember whether it fits into the Hainish universe somehow or not. Can anyone give me an authoritative yes or no on that? best, Dave Awl -- _______________________________________________ The new, improved Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/975450165/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Thu Nov 30 17:51:31 2000 Received: from fh.egroups.com (fh.egroups.com [208.50.144.71]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA02823 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:20:02 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-13-975565193-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.53] by fh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2000 06:20:01 -0000 X-Sender: dfabi@shrike.depaul.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 30 Nov 2000 06:19:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 73065 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 06:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 06:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ck.egroups.com) (10.1.2.83) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 06:19:52 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: dfabi@shrike.depaul.edu Received: from [10.1.2.101] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2000 06:19:52 -0000 To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Message-ID: <904ri6+hovt@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.48.144.183 From: "D. Fabi" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 06:19:50 -0000 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] The Age of the Enemy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: b4ec16157320c77048e4b25fb9c42526 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2724 Sometimes in the Hainish novels and stories, UKLG writes about "The Age of the Enemy." I'm sure many readers remember reading about The Age of the Enemy in Le Guin's Hainish works, and probably wondered what it was about. It seemed to have been a very pivotal event in Hainish history, since a lot of Le Guin's main characters and protagonists talk about it, but usually in only a few paltry sentences. The Age of the Enemy also seemed to have involved most of the Hainish worlds, and that it was an interplanetary event. However, Le Guin hasn't explained what happened during The Age of the Enemy. Most of the Hainish stories seem to take places centuries after this event. I'm just wondering if other people have any speculations on what The Age of the Enemy is....could it have been an interplanetary war? Maybe, or maybe not....Le Guin, as we all know, does not use cliches (as interplanetary war in science fiction is a standard cliche). She's much more clever than that. This leads to more mystery, then, on what The Age of the Enemy is, and what happened. If other readers out there would post thoughts, or even quotes/sentences from the books and stories on The Age of the Enemy, that would be wonderful. I know that it is mentioned many times in UKLG's Hainish stories. -Dexter Fabi -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/975565193/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Thu Nov 30 17:52:22 2000 Received: from mr.egroups.com (mr.egroups.com [208.50.144.80]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA09422 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:05:01 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-14-975625487-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2000 23:05:01 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 30 Nov 2000 23:04:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 57992 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 23:04:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 23:04:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 00:05:33 -0000 Received: from [207.229.172.129] (207-229-172-25.d.enteract.com [207.229.172.25]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA56508 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:04:26 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <904ri6+hovt@eGroups.com> References: <904ri6+hovt@eGroups.com> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:02:53 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] The Age of the Enemy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 1081b0115ef56d1b9c0faf8e52ecd64d Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2884 Dexter wrote: >I'm just wondering if other people have any speculations on what The >Age of the Enemy is....could it have been an interplanetary war? The Age of the Enemy is addressed in that first trilogy of Hainish novels--Rocannon's World, Planet of Exile and City of Illusions. I'm going to be a little vague here, because I don't want to spoil any suspense elements for anyone who hasn't read those books yet. But basically, in Rocannon's World it's made clear that The League of All Worlds is preparing for the expected arrival of some distant enemy of humanity that appears to be heading our way with sinister intentions. We don't get many specifics about the nature of this enemy. In Planet of Exile, the colonists on Werel have lost all contact with the League, and fear that the enemy may have arrived and conquered humanity. We're left in complete darkness as to what's actually going on with the League--all we know is that the Werelians have to tough it out on their own. The third book, City of Illusions, is set on Earth, under the reign of people calling themselves the Shing, who may or may not be aliens, and may or may not be humanity's enemies. (The League of All Worlds no longer exists, having been replaced by the rulership of the Shing.) The book focuses on the protagonist's quest to discover exactly where the truth lies and where the lies lie, and what those lies might mean. While we never learn exactly how this era comes to an end, at the conclusion of CI the handwriting is definitely on the wall that a time of change is coming. In the next book in historical sequence, The Left Hand of Darkness, we learn that the Age of the Enemy did in fact come to an end, and that a new alliance of human worlds called The Ekumen is trying to pick up where the League of All Worlds left off before the Enemy came. Without giving away the pivotal questions of whom exactly the Shing are, and whether or not they are truly the "Enemy," it's fairly clear that the period of human history that fell underneath the Shing dynasty, between the time of the League and the time of the Ekumen, is the era later referred to as "The Age of the Enemy." Because UKL tends to focus on intimate human stories framed against the backdrop of the larger Hainish saga (much as Tolkien framed the Lord of the Rings against the backdrop of the larger story told in the Silmarillion), we are usually left with large gaps in the Big Story that we have to fill in with our own imaginations. We get hints and allusions, but never a lot of detail. And in general, if you want to find out how the Big Story elements of a one novel work themselves out, you have to go on and read the next book, and pay very close attention. E.g. in Planet of Exile you find out what became of Rocannon's discoveries, in City of Illusions you find out what became of the Werelians after the events of Planet, and in Left Hand you get clues about the end of the Age of the Enemy. To some extent, you have to read like a detective. Exhausting, but fun, too. Dave Awl -- _______________________________________________ The new, improved Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/975625487/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 15:59:03 2000 X-Persona: Received: from ei.egroups.com (ei.egroups.com [64.211.240.237]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA04724 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:16:53 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-15-975907011-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.55] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2000 05:16:52 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 4 Dec 2000 05:16:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 44385 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 05:16:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2000 05:16:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 06:17:55 -0000 Received: from [207.229.148.137] (207-229-149-248.d.enteract.com [207.229.149.248]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA41742 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 23:16:48 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 23:16:41 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] The Telling makes Book Sense 76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 78e37e939ae96e5cd7be8fa8faf94609 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 341 Hey Ekumenicals, I stopped into Women and Children First today (the topnotch indie feminist bookstore here in Chicago) and was pleased to see that The Telling made the Book Sense 76. The Book Sense 76 is a "Best" list chosen by a network of independent booksellers, chosen on the basis of quality without the influence of publishers' advertising dollars--sort of an antidote to the Bestseller lists flogged by the superstores, which promote the questionable idea that we ought to decide what books to read based on what everyone else is reading. Anyway, The Telling is #46 on the list (note that the numbers don't seem to be any kind of ranking, just a locator) and the entry says: "Science fiction sage Le Guin poses profound profound religious and social questions in her latest Hainish cycle novel. The landscape she describes feels like the Tibetan plateau and the political situation is similar to contemporary China. The book belongs with the small group of books I think of as our own North American wisdom literature." --Charles Weidner, Shaman Drum Bookshop, Ann Arbor, MI best, Dave Awl -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: More fun than a Winnebago full of marmosets! http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/0/_/_/_/975907011/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:00:12 2000 X-Persona: Received: from hl.egroups.com (hl.egroups.com [208.50.99.197]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA02889 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 21:56:43 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-16-975995801-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2000 05:56:42 -0000 X-Sender: kebbo@teleport.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Dec 2000 05:56:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 91224 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2000 05:56:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2000 05:56:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cj.egroups.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Dec 2000 05:56:38 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: kebbo@teleport.com Received: from [10.1.10.123] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2000 05:56:38 -0000 To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Message-ID: <90i02m+fnnv@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 134.10.176.70 From: "Heather Whipple " MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 05:56:38 -0000 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] UKL reading in Portland, OR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 1da12bc57b5d888c83d6aa1fe3239140 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 574 fyi -- if any of you will be in Portland this week, UKL is giving a reading at Powells downtown, 7:30pm 12/6/00. Heather in Portland, who just joined the list. -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/975995801/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:02:10 2000 X-Persona: Received: from ml.egroups.com (ml.egroups.com [208.50.144.77]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA00559 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:00:11 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-17-976125610-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.52] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2000 18:00:11 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 6 Dec 2000 18:00:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 3884 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2000 18:00:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Dec 2000 18:00:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Dec 2000 18:00:09 -0000 Received: from [207.229.148.154] (207-229-142-176.d.enteract.com [207.229.142.176]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA49063 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 12:00:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <90i02m+fnnv@eGroups.com> References: <90i02m+fnnv@eGroups.com> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:59:59 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] UKL reading in Portland, OR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 6b1d20c83ec25ce0b9735288b741e211 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 960 Heather wrote: >fyi -- if any of you will be in Portland this week, UKL is giving a >reading at Powells downtown, 7:30pm 12/6/00. Hey Heather, welcome to the list and thanks for sharing the news! Sure wish I could be in Portland this weekend rather than stuck in suddenly-arctic Chicago. Hey, how about a special extra-credit mission--if you get a chance to talk to her, it would be swell if you could ask her if she has any appearances in other cities scheduled and report back to us. I have the feeling that maybe she's sticking close to home these days, and the last time I remember her being in Chicago was when Searoad came out. Still, it might be worth asking. Of course if you do get to talk to her you might have other stuff you'd rather ask her, so this is only a suggestion. best, Dave Awl -- _______________________________________________ The new, improved Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/976125610/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:02:42 2000 X-Persona: Received: from hk.egroups.com (hk.egroups.com [208.50.99.220]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA23491 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:06:02 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-18-976147547-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.55] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2000 00:06:02 -0000 X-Sender: ventus@poczta.onet.pl X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 7 Dec 2000 00:05:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 93887 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2000 00:04:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2000 00:04:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.48) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Dec 2000 01:06:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ventus@poczta.onet.pl Received: from [10.1.10.34] by fl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2000 00:04:56 -0000 To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Message-ID: <90mk76+jc6v@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 193.0.110.129 From: "Surion Epeirodis" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 00:04:54 -0000 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: am new here Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: e74c15ac65c883e2e7ae0228487f41ff Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1092 > I think the fascinating thing about those books is the way you can see > UKL finding her style Hm... I don't know if to me. I like the way she writes just because it makes so consciuos of words, of thoughts, of interpersonal relations! I do not know very much of her style as it is in fact, because I read all in Polish (it is my mother tongue after all!). I was searching for some English stuff but it is not so easy. There is a lot o Tolkien's books, Williams' and so on. I know how the translation can be important for how you feel the style of the text but still I like UKL. And I think people who read such books like and appreciate her here in Poland. Valete Haec Igitur Surion Epeirodis ---------------------------- ...os homini sublime dedit... ---------------------------- -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/976147547/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:02:57 2000 X-Persona: Received: from mv.egroups.com (mv.egroups.com [208.50.144.81]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA08358 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:48:32 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-19-976171712-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.52] by mv.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2000 06:48:32 -0000 X-Sender: kebbo@teleport.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 7 Dec 2000 06:48:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 90940 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2000 06:48:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Dec 2000 06:48:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Dec 2000 07:49:36 -0000 Received: from [63.178.64.32] (sdn-ar-003orportP118.dialsprint.net [63.178.65.78]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07732 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:48:28 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: kebbo@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <90i02m+fnnv@eGroups.com> References: <90i02m+fnnv@eGroups.com> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: heather whipple MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:52:58 -0800 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] UKL reading in Portland, OR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 816e052c5bd0e8da98ad845720782e42 Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1156 I told UKL about this list, and she liked the name. (She's not online, so no chance of having her join us.) I'm sorry to report that tonight's reading was the end of her touring for this book, so no Chicago visit pending. She did say, "Maybe next year." She also confirmed that _Tales from Earthsea_ is due from Harcourt "next spring" -- I believe that means 2001, not 2002. There will also be another Earthsea novel out the following fall, making it a six book trilogy, as she said. The Tales include stories about the history of Earthsea, and the last one takes place just after the end of Tehanu (I'm assuming that would be "Dragonfly," which was in Robert Silverberg's recent collection of new fantasy works). The novel story follows immediately after that. Heather * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * heather whipple kebbo@teleport.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/976171712/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:03:58 2000 X-Persona: Received: from fj.egroups.com (fj.egroups.com [64.211.240.231]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21012 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:57:34 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-20-976240128-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by fj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Dec 2000 01:48:52 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 8 Dec 2000 01:48:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 62844 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2000 01:48:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2000 01:48:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Dec 2000 02:49:52 -0000 Received: from [207.229.148.146] (207-229-148-146.d.enteract.com [207.229.148.146]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA71967 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 19:48:45 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 19:18:19 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: UKL reading + eGroups features Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 1efa21d2b0c0f4c359fbc35a85aa139b Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1390 Hey Heather, thanks so much for giving us all the scoop on the reading. Great info. Thanks especially for putting me out of my misery about upcoming Chicago appearances. ; ) >I told UKL about this list, and she liked the name. Wow! That's really cool. I can't take too much credit, though, it *is* sort of the obvious name. On a side note, I would like to encourage all Ekumen members to make use of eGroups' various features for the list. Feel free to put links to your own sites up in the "Links" areas, add dates to the Calendar if you hear of a UKL-related event, post relevant images or documents to the "Files" area, and of course you can make use of the archive in the "Messages" area to read messages that have already been posted (say if you're new and want to catch up on what we've been talking about). There's even an Ekumen chat room people can meet in by pre-arrangement. I'm not too big on chat as a format myself, so you probably won't catch me in there, but anyone who wants to use it is welcome. best, Dave Awl -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: More fun than a Winnebago full of marmosets! http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/0/_/_/_/976240128/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:04:15 2000 X-Persona: Received: from jk.egroups.com (jk.egroups.com [208.50.144.83]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA05853 for ; Fri, 8 Dec 2000 05:37:59 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-21-976282670-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Dec 2000 13:37:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 62091 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2000 13:37:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2000 13:37:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Dec 2000 13:37:46 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.114] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Dec 2000 13:37:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 91341 invoked by uid 65534); 8 Dec 2000 13:37:40 -0000 Message-ID: <976282660.91339@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: the-ekumen@egroups.com To: the-ekumen@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: 8 Dec 2000 13:37:40 -0000 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] New poll for the-ekumen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: fb1507491c0a78f5c9b906a48b8e7651 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1452 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the the-ekumen group: Which type of UKL's books do you prefer: o fantasy o SF To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/the-ekumen Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/976282670/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:04:56 2000 X-Persona: Received: from hn.egroups.com (hn.egroups.com [208.50.99.199]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA07657 for ; Fri, 8 Dec 2000 18:28:07 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-22-976328886-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by hn.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Dec 2000 02:28:07 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 9 Dec 2000 02:28:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 53833 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2000 02:28:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2000 02:28:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Dec 2000 02:28:01 -0000 Received: from [207.229.148.204] (207-229-148-204.d.enteract.com [207.229.148.204]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA64609 for ; Fri, 8 Dec 2000 20:28:00 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <976282660.91339@egroups.com> References: <976282660.91339@egroups.com> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 20:27:51 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: f1bdbbad51f9b6e4db70dac5c6b50c9e Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1609 >Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the the-ekumen >group: > > >Which type of UKL's books do you prefer: > > o fantasy > o SF Hmm...the only reason I haven't voted in this poll so far is that I would need there to be a third option: o like them both equally Don't forget about us wishy-washy types! Also, some of UKL's books arguably contain elements of both SF and Fantasy, e.g. Rocannon's World, Word for World is Forest and The Lathe of Heaven. best, Dave -- _______________________________________________ The new, improved Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/976328886/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:05:24 2000 X-Persona: Received: from fg.egroups.com (fg.egroups.com [208.50.144.70]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA17391 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 05:44:13 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-23-976369446-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.53] by fg.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Dec 2000 13:44:13 -0000 X-Sender: jhyde@christschool.org X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 9 Dec 2000 13:44:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 92472 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2000 13:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2000 13:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.christschool.org) (208.131.129.57) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Dec 2000 14:45:07 -0000 Received: from (www.christschool.org [208.131.129.58]) by mail.christschool.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA10093 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:00:02 -0500 Message-ID: <3A323A0C.4603@christschool.org> Organization: c:\sig.txt X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) To: the-ekumen@egroups.com References: <976282660.91339@egroups.com> From: jhyde MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 08:56:28 -0500 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Re: New poll for the-ekumen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 6ee1fcfd607a2faa549e24c8851923aa Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1654 And which category, I'd like to ask, is correct for Always Coming Home, which may be my favorite...? Anthropological fantasy??? But then there's Earthsea, and there's Left Hand of Darkness.... Hard to vote for favorites, but worthwhile trying. Byt he way, if you live in Portland you might have a chance to take part in a writing workshop with LeGuin. My son Zack did this last year. It was throsugh Portland State University. I'm going to reread lots of LeGuin (sorry, Henry James) over the holidays and maybe try to say something intelligent in 2001. -- Jane Hyde, Librarian 828-684-6232 x121 St. Dunstan Library jhyde@christschool.org Christ School 500 Christ School Rd. Arden, NC 28704 The stars, after all, hang over pigs as they do above all the rest of creation, and who knows what deep dreams a pig may be dreaming? -- William Steig -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/976369446/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:05:26 2000 X-Persona: Received: from hl.egroups.com (hl.egroups.com [208.50.99.197]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA23246 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 12:13:44 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-24-976392821-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.55] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Dec 2000 20:13:42 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 9 Dec 2000 20:13:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 16246 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2000 20:13:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2000 20:13:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Dec 2000 21:14:46 -0000 Received: from [207.229.148.202] (207-229-148-202.d.enteract.com [207.229.148.202]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA83071 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:13:38 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3A323A0C.4603@christschool.org> References: <976282660.91339@egroups.com> <3A323A0C.4603@christschool.org> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:13:15 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Always Coming Home/residency Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 5a0d89e1a6e244bda9785fbf5e80bcd6 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1683 Hey Jane, nice to see you on this list! You wrote: >And which category, I'd like to ask, is correct for Always Coming Home, >which may be my favorite...? Anthropological fantasy??? I think you could also apply the term magical realism to parts of it...although it's been a while since I've read it, so I'm not 100% on that. > Byt he way, if you live in Portland you might have a chance to take >part in a writing workshop with LeGuin. My son Zack did this last >year. It was throsugh Portland State University. UKL did a similar residency-type thing at San Jose State University last spring. There's a fun interview with her from the SJSU student paper at: http://www.spartandaily.org/2news194.htm > I'm going to reread lots of LeGuin (sorry, Henry James) over the >holidays and maybe try to say something intelligent in 2001. ...an excellent goal for us all. ; ) Dave -- ___________________________________________________ New on Ocelot Factory! The Ocelot Eleven: Ocelot Factory's Cheerfully Weird, Weekly Guide to the Web ----> http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/976392821/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:06:07 2000 X-Persona: Received: from mw.egroups.com (mw.egroups.com [208.50.144.94]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA23241 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:25:12 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-25-976515912-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2000 06:25:12 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Dec 2000 06:25:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 4690 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2000 06:25:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2000 06:25:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Dec 2000 07:26:15 -0000 Received: from [207.229.148.155] (207-229-148-154.d.enteract.com [207.229.148.154]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06607 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 00:25:09 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 00:25:02 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] The Portland Trailblazer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: e0bb7572ca44107080c9ec3062ea3310 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1808 Hey Ekumenicals, I just found a great new interview with UKL on the Web. She talks about The Telling, feminism and Taoism, lays into Harry Potter, and makes some--for me anyway--very thought-provoking comments about Jung. From what she says about the Telling, David Salo and I are both right--she's addressing both China under Mao, and contemporary global capitalism. Quote: >"I'm a devoted consumer, a > mail-order, catch-the-sale American." But, she adds, "I can also >see what we're doing to > ourselves in the larger sense. Capitalism is running us, and it's >awfully scary." The interview is at: http://www.bookmagazine.com/issue12/trailblazer.shtml best, Dave Awl -- ___________________________________________________ New on Ocelot Factory! The Ocelot Eleven: Ocelot Factory's Cheerfully Weird, Weekly Guide to the Web ----> http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/0/_/_/_/976515912/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:12:00 2000 X-Persona: Received: from ml.egroups.com (ml.egroups.com [208.50.144.77]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA17954 for ; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 09:45:54 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-26-977075152-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2000 17:45:54 -0000 X-Sender: paula@ba.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 17 Dec 2000 17:45:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 60476 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2000 17:45:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2000 17:45:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ferro2.ba.net) (200.41.130.4) by mta2 with SMTP; 17 Dec 2000 17:45:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 8695 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2000 14:55:55 -0000 Received: from h20041131210.ba.net (HELO c) (200.41.131.210) by ferro2.ba.net with SMTP; 17 Dec 2000 14:55:55 -0000 Message-ID: <003001c06852$16ee5920$d98329c8@c> To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Spam-Rating: ferro2.ba.net 1.6.2 0/1000/N From: "paula" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:52:11 -0300 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] New here ! :o) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: aea11c5630e994b40599456898e45d81 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2966 Hi everyone!! i am new here, and would like to introduce myself.. I am 24, and i am studying to become a teacher of english literature and language....I love Le Guin.... I was introduced to her work a couple of years ago by a very dear friend of mine and now she has become one of my favourite writers.. I've been looking for a place where to discuss her works and exchange opinions and ideas... At the moment i am working on a paper on some of her short stories....I've chosen to focus on "The water is wide", "Small change", "The wise woman", and "Child Bride"...From the Compass Rose and Unlocking the air...i'd like to know if any of you have read those stories.....and if you would care to read my views or discuss a little with me about what you think of them? Thank you so much Greetings, Paula. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/0/_/_/_/977075152/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:12:00 2000 X-Persona: Received: from mv.egroups.com (mv.egroups.com [208.50.144.81]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA22210 for ; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:31:38 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-27-977088695-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by mv.egroups.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2000 21:31:37 -0000 X-Sender: nebula009@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 17 Dec 2000 21:31:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 24543 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2000 21:31:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2000 21:31:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web9406.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.129.22) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Dec 2000 21:31:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20001217213131.61683.qmail@web9406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [142.66.53.13] by web9406.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:31:31 PST To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: izzy rubin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:31:31 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] hi paula! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: baa454e9f94c13a6220ad1aa55116c75 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2987 i'm kind of new here too, i joined a couple months ago. so far i haven't said much, but i've been reading a lot of the posts. i just started reading le guin this year, so far all i've read is the left hand of darkness, the lathe of heaven, very far away from anywhere but here, and part of the wind's 12 quarters. have you read any of these? izzy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/977088695/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:12:22 2000 X-Persona: Received: from ci.egroups.com (ci.egroups.com [64.211.240.235]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA12521 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:51:22 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-28-977158282-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2000 16:51:22 -0000 X-Sender: guada@usc.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 16:51:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 44585 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 16:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 16:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c9.egroups.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta2 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 16:51:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: guada@usc.edu Received: from [10.1.2.36] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2000 16:51:16 -0000 To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Message-ID: <91lfa3+jvim@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 128.125.224.184 From: "Joe G" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:51:15 -0000 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: The Portland Trailblazer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 23596649b8b4f32a2e0e4bb4154136b4 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3059 Dave, Thank you for the reference to this wonderful interview of UKL. I really enjoyed it. I just joined the list (found yours, as well as LeGuin's World & The Unofficial UKL, sites just yesterday after being inspired to do such a search while reading _The Telling_) so this response is a tad delayed. I've been reading the archives to "catch-up" so... And thanks for this eGroup so that UKL fans can connect with others who enjoy her work and ideas. Joe --- In the-ekumen@egroups.com, Dave Awl wrote: > Hey Ekumenicals, > > I just found a great new interview with UKL on the Web. She talks > about The Telling, feminism and Taoism, lays into Harry Potter, and > makes some--for me anyway--very thought-provoking comments about > Jung. From what she says about the Telling, David Salo and I are both > right--she's addressing both China under Mao, and contemporary global > capitalism. Quote: > > >"I'm a devoted consumer, a > > mail-order, catch-the-sale American." But, she adds, "I can also > >see what we're doing to > > ourselves in the larger sense. Capitalism is running us, and it's > >awfully scary." > > The interview is at: > http://www.bookmagazine.com/issue12/trailblazer.shtml > > best, > Dave Awl > -- > ___________________________________________________ > New on Ocelot Factory! > The Ocelot Eleven: Ocelot Factory's > Cheerfully Weird, Weekly Guide to the Web > ----> http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> Big News - eGroups is becoming Yahoo! Groups Click here for more details: http://click.egroups.com/1/10801/0/_/_/_/977158282/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:12:22 2000 X-Persona: Received: from hn.egroups.com (hn.egroups.com [208.50.99.199]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA13745 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:26:35 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-29-977160390-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.54] by hn.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2000 17:26:34 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 17:26:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 74530 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 17:26:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 17:26:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 18:27:33 -0000 Received: from [207.229.172.173] (207-229-172-173.d.enteract.com [207.229.172.173]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05492 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:26:26 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <91lfa3+jvim@eGroups.com> References: <91lfa3+jvim@eGroups.com> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:26:19 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Welcome Paula and Joe, applause to Fredrik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 1cedaa60e0475c992a9f9b7dcd674fd2 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3065 Hello Ekumenicals, Welcome to Paula and Joe and any other new members that have joined the list in recent days. Thanks for your participation and glad you found your way to us. And thanks for the compliments, Joe. Also, a round of applause for Fredrik's redesign of Le Guin's World. It's beautiful! Everyone should go check it out. I especially like the new site map, it's very groovy. See: http://surf.to/le.guin/ And thanks, Fredrik, for putting The Ekumen so prominently on your site, I'm sure that will help us find more new members. We're starting to grow pretty fast now--almost thirty members and climbing! best, Dave -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: More fun than a Winnebago full of marmosets! http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/0/_/_/_/977160390/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:12:34 2000 X-Persona: Received: from mr.egroups.com (mr.egroups.com [208.50.144.80]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA21133 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:37:04 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-30-977168208-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.54] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2000 19:37:03 -0000 X-Sender: jenjavar@superior.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 19:36:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 75323 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 19:36:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 19:36:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO voicenet.com) (207.103.26.205) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 19:36:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 4325 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 19:36:43 -0000 Received: from 209-71-147-219-zone-i-adsl.zone-i-adsl.voicenet.com (HELO jennifer.superior.net) (209.71.147.219) by acct2.voicenet.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 19:36:43 -0000 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001218142553.00b59dd0@mail.superior.net> X-Sender: jenjavar@mail.superior.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 To: the-ekumen@egroups.com In-Reply-To: <977127124.7473@egroups.com> From: "Jennifer R. J." MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:36:38 -0500 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] introduction Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 160167598d1e7d722d6667a98bc1a845 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3094 I am also new; I joined last week. I haven't read very many of UKL's books, but she is one of my favorite authors. So far, I've read The Earthsea books, The Eye of the Heron, and The Left Hand of Darkness. I have The Dispossessed, The Winds Twelve Quarters, and City of Illusions and I plan to read them sometime soon. I've also read Dragonfly in the Legends anthology and The Shobies' Story in a year's best SF collection. I think I may have read a few more short stories here and there too. Finally, I have seen the PBS movie of The Lathe of Heaven and I'd really like to read the book. Jennifer -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/0/_/_/_/977168208/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:12:42 2000 X-Persona: Received: from hn.egroups.com (hn.egroups.com [208.50.99.199]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA22903 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:10:00 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-31-977170197-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.54] by hn.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2000 20:10:00 -0000 X-Sender: jesse@mailbag.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 20:09:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 73304 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 20:09:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 20:09:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailbag.com) (205.173.176.10) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 20:09:56 -0000 Received: from [64.73.5.195] (msn-10-0.dial.binc.net [64.73.5.0]) by mailbag.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA30411 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:09:54 -0600 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001218142553.00b59dd0@mail.superior.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001218142553.00b59dd0@mail.superior.net> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Jesse the K MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:08:54 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] introduction Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 3030464842a576ff2a4386f815cbe483 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3096 --- Jennifer R. J., 12/18/00 2:36p --- >Finally, I have seen the PBS movie of The Lathe of Heaven and I'd >really like to read the book. You have a treat in store with the Lathe of Heaven, which has always been one of my fave UKL books. Uncommonly, the PBS movie was an excellent adaptation. I think it really captured the book's spirit, which I treasure for the delicate way it meanders from humdrum reality into the alien, hooking us with that most alien-ated part of human experience, our dreams. Brief intro: I'm a long-time UKL reader: I read the Left Hand of Darkness in 1970 because Ace paperbacks were reliably interesting. At 15, half of it went over my head, but I enjoyed the other half, and I was hooked. My grandparents had Theodora Kroeber's book _Ishi_, and I remember staring at the pictures long before I could understand the text. I remember being stunned when "South" appeared in the New Yorker, as I'd subscribed to Fantasy and Science Fiction to ensure I get her latest stories when they appeared. I've revisited Darkness several times, and I've tried to read every other thing UKL has ever published. Her books are particularly rewarding to reread, with the singular exception of _Malafrena_, which I forced myself to finish (it was UKL, after all) but I can't imagine why I bothered. I've had the very great pleasure of hearing her speak, when she was a keynoter at WisCon 20. She's a wonderful public presenter. At first she seemed unprepared, but as she warmed up, I realize that her reverence for story telling is not confined to the pages of a book. She is very funny, and profound, and totally relaxed. If you have the chance to see her -- even if it involves a day's travel -- do it. Happy to be here. -- Jesse the K -- Madison Wisconsin USA -- Um... I forget what I was going to say. -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/977170197/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:13:48 2000 X-Persona: Received: from cj.egroups.com (cj.egroups.com [208.50.144.68]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21626 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:01:05 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-32-977274050-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.55] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2000 01:01:03 -0000 X-Sender: DerekLin@Prodigy.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 20 Dec 2000 01:00:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 1290 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2000 01:00:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2000 01:00:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Dec 2000 01:00:49 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: DerekLin@Prodigy.net Received: from [10.1.10.119] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2000 01:00:48 -0000 To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Message-ID: <91p0bt+c9ac@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.214.44.147 From: "Derek Lin" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:00:45 -0000 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Chuang-tze & Lao-tze, Tao Web Site Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: e6ef9e072ddbd29be8648c4d13015aee Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3314 Hi everyone! If your interest in Tao philosophy / spirituality has been piqued by UKL's books, and you wish to explore it further, please take a look at my site, www.Taoism.net. This year we have just started our own translation effort of both Tao Te Ching / Dao De Jing and Chuang-tze's beautiful "Carefree Wandering," and in the year 2001 we expect to develop the bulk of the material. We work from the original Chinese text character-by- character, and plan to supplement each passage with essays on its meaning as well as practical application to daily life. Also, if you could use some help in gaining a sense of serenity in a stressful environment or after a particularly chaotic day, take a look at the "Zen Brook." Many people have written to say it really makes a difference. Finally, you may be pleased to know that the site has ZERO commerical content. No ads, no pop-ups, nothing to sell, no solicitation of any kind, zip, nada. Just a place to spend some quiet moments in respite and soul reflection. Regards, - Derek www.Taoism.net -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/977274050/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:13:48 2000 X-Persona: Received: from hm.egroups.com (hm.egroups.com [208.50.99.198]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA22003 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:10:46 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-33-977274644-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2000 01:10:45 -0000 X-Sender: DerekLin@Prodigy.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 20 Dec 2000 01:10:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 91043 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2000 01:10:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2000 01:10:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Dec 2000 02:11:49 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: DerekLin@Prodigy.net Received: from [10.1.10.121] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2000 01:10:43 -0000 To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Message-ID: <91p0ug+kg4t@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <91p0bt+c9ac@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.214.44.147 From: "Derek Lin" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:10:39 -0000 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Chuang-tze & Lao-tze, Tao Web Site Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 418545d3809ddf617acd159c34d0c877 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3316 To answer a question someone just asked... Yes, the essay in the "Tao Articles" section of www.Taoism.net called "Zen and the Art of Whatever" *is* by David Gerrold the Science Fiction author. Like UKL, DG has a profound interst in Tao philosophy and spirituality. Perhaps there are many other SF authors who are also interested in Taoism...? Regards, - Derek www.Taoism.net -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/977274644/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:13:48 2000 X-Persona: Received: from ej.egroups.com (ej.egroups.com [64.211.240.230]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA25839 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:11:48 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-34-977281908-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by ej.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2000 03:11:48 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 20 Dec 2000 03:11:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 38153 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2000 03:11:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2000 03:11:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Dec 2000 03:11:41 -0000 Received: from [207.229.142.138] (207-229-142-138.d.enteract.com [207.229.142.138]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA53692 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:11:39 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <91p0bt+c9ac@eGroups.com> References: <91p0bt+c9ac@eGroups.com> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:11:33 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Tao Web Site, UKL & Stephen Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 4fb2b2f722d548d2e872111e256d5366 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3343 Derek wrote: >If your interest in Tao philosophy / spirituality has been piqued by >UKL's books, and you wish to explore it further, please take a look >at my site, www.Taoism.net. Hi Derek, welcome to the list! I've been looking around your site and really enjoying it. I especially liked your "Meet the Meat" essay on vegetarianism. I'm curious what you think of UKL's Tao Te Ching translation, specifically how you think it compares to others. I haven't gotten a hold of a copy yet myself, but it's on my list of books to buy when I can. My own personal favorite translation is Stephen Mitchell's (who is also responsible for my favorite translations of Rilke). I know he takes a lot of flak for not being "traditional" enough, but his poetic grace and insight have brought the text alive for me in new and wonderful ways. (That's true of both the Tao Te Ching and Rilke's poems.) Reading through the reviews of UKL's translation on Amazon, she also seemed to be catching some heat from the hardcore traditionalists. But I say that the Tao Te Ching is not carved in stone, it's carved in words, which are alive and change their shape. And can reflect light from many different angles. Interestingly enough, UKL has also translated some Rilke, in her "Buffalo Gals" anthology. I don't know if Stephen Mitchell and UKL have ever met, but I suspect they'd get along famously. best, Dave Awl -- ___________________________________________________ New on Ocelot Factory! The Ocelot Eleven: Ocelot Factory's Cheerfully Weird, Weekly Guide to the Web ----> http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/977281908/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:13:48 2000 X-Persona: Received: from c9.egroups.com (c9.egroups.com [208.50.99.230]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA29145 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:29:04 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-35-977290140-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2000 05:29:03 -0000 X-Sender: guada@usc.edu X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 20 Dec 2000 05:28:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 92200 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2000 05:28:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2000 05:28:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO usc.edu) (128.125.253.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Dec 2000 05:28:58 -0000 Received: from fxl2b (ppp-229-223.usc.edu [128.125.229.223]) by usc.edu (8.9.3.1/8.9.3/usc) with SMTP id VAA02949 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:28:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001a01c06a45$ff2e83a0$dfe57d80@fxl2b> To: References: <91lfa3+jvim@eGroups.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Joe Guada" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:30:41 -0800 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: Re: [the-ekumen] Welcome Paula and Joe, applause to Fredrik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: ae04a616ce724f828a711d93a09fa8c6 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3354 Thanks for the welcome, Dave. I found this eGroup through the Le Guin's World site, BTW. And it (Le Guin's World, that is) does look great. Very visually appealing and informative, too. It was through that I finally got some of the basics of the Hainish cycle (and inspired me to buy the first three books of that cycle via the web - used copy of all three books in one, hard copy, from 1967! Can't wait since I just finished _The Telling_). The site map is just like a map, makes it very understandable and easy to navigate the site, and shows how everything is truly interconnected. :) Joe. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Awl To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Sent: Monday, 18 December, 2000 9:26 AM Subject: [the-ekumen] Welcome Paula and Joe, applause to Fredrik Hello Ekumenicals, Welcome to Paula and Joe and any other new members that have joined the list in recent days. Thanks for your participation and glad you found your way to us. And thanks for the compliments, Joe. Also, a round of applause for Fredrik's redesign of Le Guin's World. It's beautiful! Everyone should go check it out. I especially like the new site map, it's very groovy. See: http://surf.to/le.guin/ And thanks, Fredrik, for putting The Ekumen so prominently on your site, I'm sure that will help us find more new members. We're starting to grow pretty fast now--almost thirty members and climbing! best, Dave -- _______________________________________________ Ocelot Factory: More fun than a Winnebago full of marmosets! http://www.ocelotfactory.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/0/_/_/_/977290140/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:14:27 2000 X-Persona: Received: from mq.egroups.com (mq.egroups.com [208.50.144.79]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA23641 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:08:47 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-36-977342909-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.55] by mq.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2000 20:08:46 -0000 X-Sender: DerekLin@Prodigy.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 20 Dec 2000 20:08:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 25638 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2000 20:08:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2000 20:08:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c9.egroups.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Dec 2000 20:08:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: DerekLin@Prodigy.net Received: from [10.1.2.27] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2000 20:08:27 -0000 To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Message-ID: <91r3ji+4ash@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.214.44.147 From: "Derek Lin" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:08:18 -0000 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: Tao Web Site, UKL & Stephen Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 8ae9911c3ec57a25e22685837cce1ae6 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3575 Hi Dave, thanks so much for your kind words! I'm glad you find the site enjoyable. That "Meet the Meat" piece must have generated the most response by far, for whatever reason, so apparently many people agree with you! I like the translations by all the authors you named (UKL, Mitchell, Rilke). Being a native speaker of Chinese, I understand why they've taken flak for their sometimes *very* liberal and way-off interpretations; at the same time, I believe, as you do, that the essence is far more important than whatever form it happens to take. The essence of Taoism that appeals to me is similar to what UKL has expressed -- there is a distinct sense of humor along with the resonant truths and the gracefully flowing wisdom. All of the authors you named, I feel, have been able to tap into this essence in a fundamental way, thus making them more genuinely Taoist then some of the stuffy scholars out there who claim to be Taoism experts :) I should point out also that many individuals who criticize "inaccurate" translations do not have the ability to do any better themselves. Oftentimes their Chinese is better than their English so that, if they do make the attempt, the result is riddled with cryptic passages which they probably comprehend perfectly in the original but cannot express clearly in English. So it goes. The natural question before us, then, is whether or not it is possible to produce a translation that is as precise and exact as possible and yet remains clear, simple, and even poetic or lyrical. I believe the answer is yes; it is my mission in this lifetime to work toward that holy grail. No, not the *perfect* translation. If such a thing exists at all, it is well beyond my abilities. What I aim for is a truer fusion of the East and West -- faithful to the original, yet perfectly approachable by anyone, with or without previous experience with Asian culture. The Tao Te Ching translations on my site are in roughdraft form, and not all mine. They will be revised in time. I do claim credit for the few Chuang Tzu translations and the Hui Neng poems. I've written detailed notes on the technical aspects of translating the latter, so if you are curious about my approach, you can get a dissected view of it in the piece called "Shenxiu Poetry Translation Notes" in the "Tao Stories" section. Warm regards & gratitude, - Derek -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> Big News - eGroups is becoming Yahoo! Groups Click here for more details: http://click.egroups.com/1/10801/0/_/_/_/977342909/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:15:02 2000 X-Persona: Received: from jk.egroups.com (jk.egroups.com [208.50.144.83]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA10130 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:54:02 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-37-977363324-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.52] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2000 01:48:44 -0000 X-Sender: DerekLin@Prodigy.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 21 Dec 2000 01:48:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 55301 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2000 01:48:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 21 Dec 2000 01:48:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Dec 2000 01:48:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: DerekLin@Prodigy.net Received: from [10.1.2.208] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2000 01:48:42 -0000 To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Message-ID: <91rnho+ev0r@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <91r3ji+4ash@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.214.44.147 From: "Derek Lin" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:48:40 -0000 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Errata & Feminism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 174be3615c8c17662a7164e111b13c1a Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3715 Errata: I'm not sure how Rilke became a *translator* of Tao Te Ching in my last message :) Sorry! I got totally mixed up trying to rush through a coherent reply during my afternoon break. I wanted to also mention that the core of Tao philosophy has the utmost respect for women. The attitude, far from condescending or patronizing, is closer to awe and a sense of wonder. The female principle is recognized and affirmed as the source of life. In I-Kuan Tao, which is heavily influenced by Tao Te Ching, the Creator is specifically recognized as female as opposed to the traditional Judeo-Christian male, because the miracle of creation (something from nothing) is similar to the miracle of birth (a unique personality seemingly coming from nowhere). I wonder if UKL ever looked at this aspect of Taoism and found it congruent with her feminist views? Regards, - Derek www.Taoism.net -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/0/_/_/_/977363324/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:16:08 2000 X-Persona: Received: from hm.egroups.com (hm.egroups.com [208.50.99.198]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA29265 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:07:51 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-38-977450869-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.53] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Dec 2000 02:07:50 -0000 X-Sender: dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 22 Dec 2000 02:07:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 8919 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2000 02:07:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Dec 2000 02:07:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Dec 2000 02:07:47 -0000 Received: from [207.229.172.178] (207-229-172-127.d.enteract.com [207.229.172.127]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA74323 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:07:46 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dayvoll@ocelotfactory.com) X-Sender: dayvoll@pop.enteract.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001218142553.00b59dd0@mail.superior.net> To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: Dave Awl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:07:40 -0600 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] welcome Jesse and Jennifer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: eb58d3e090379351fde56240e6373b09 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3955 By the way, welcome to Jennifer and Jesse and thanks for posting. It's so exciting that every other message isn't from me anymore. ; ) Jesse wrote: >You have a treat in store with the Lathe of Heaven, which has always >been one of my fave UKL books. Uncommonly, the PBS movie was an >excellent adaptation. I think it really captured the book's spirit, >which I treasure for the delicate way it meanders from humdrum >reality into the alien, hooking us with that most alien-ated part of >human experience, our dreams. I agree whole-heartedly, and well put. The Lathe of Heaven is actually my favorite book of all time. Something about it centers me each and every time I read it. I guess it's that very Taoist notion that no matter what happens, it's always possible to restore balance and find your way back to the center. And it's also interesting to note that while The Dispossessed is more overtly concerned with anarchism, Lathe is a very anarchist book too, with its fundamental distrust of authority and the quest for power. I think the novel shows how in Le Guin's philosophy, at a certain point Taoism and anarchism dovetail. Jennifer wrote: > I >have The Dispossessed, The Winds Twelve Quarters, and City of Illusions and >I plan to read them sometime soon. Lots of good reading ahead of you. My advice would be to read City of Illusions in its proper place in the original Hainish Trilogy: Rocannon's World, then Planet of Exile, then City of Illusions. Things will make a lot more sense that way and you'll pick up on additional levels of meaning. City of Illusions really is the climax of a trilogy, in my opinion. best, Dave -- _______________________________________________ The new, improved Ocelot Factory: http://www.ocelotfactory.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/0/_/_/_/977450869/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:16:24 2000 X-Persona: Received: from mv.egroups.com (mv.egroups.com [208.50.144.81]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA10799 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:18:33 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-39-977494707-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.52] by mv.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Dec 2000 14:18:32 -0000 X-Sender: jenjavar@superior.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 22 Dec 2000 14:18:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 43611 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2000 14:18:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Dec 2000 14:18:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO voicenet.com) (207.103.26.205) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Dec 2000 14:18:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 10574 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2000 14:18:23 -0000 Received: from 209-71-147-219-zone-i-adsl.zone-i-adsl.voicenet.com (HELO jennifer.superior.net) (209.71.147.219) by acct2.voicenet.com with SMTP; 22 Dec 2000 14:18:23 -0000 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001222090744.00b0c100@mail.superior.net> X-Sender: jenjavar@mail.superior.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 To: the-ekumen@egroups.com From: "Jennifer R. J." MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:18:23 -0500 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: introduction Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: f2b01d33e6d263f75ec98ab2bbaf6f70 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4018 >You have a treat in store with the Lathe of Heaven, which has always >been one of my fave UKL books. Uncommonly, the PBS movie was an >excellent adaptation. I think it really captured the book's spirit, >which I treasure for the delicate way it meanders from humdrum >reality into the alien, hooking us with that most alien-ated part of >human experience, our dreams. I'm glad to know the adaptation was good. I'm not too fond of movies based on books- mostly because they become so different. I hope to read The Lathe of Heaven really soon. I'm going to try to get my boyfriend to read it too since he liked the movie (doing my best to spread the word about UKL). >Brief intro: I'm a long-time UKL reader: I read the Left Hand of >Darkness in 1970 because Ace paperbacks were reliably interesting. At >15, half of it went over my head, but I enjoyed the other half, and I >was hooked. My grandparents had Theodora Kroeber's book _Ishi_, and I >remember staring at the pictures long before I could understand the >text. I remember being stunned when "South" appeared in the New >Yorker, as I'd subscribed to Fantasy and Science Fiction to ensure I >get her latest stories when they appeared. >I've revisited Darkness several times, and I've tried to read every >other thing UKL has ever published. Her books are particularly >rewarding to reread, with the singular exception of _Malafrena_, >which I forced myself to finish (it was UKL, after all) but I can't >imagine why I bothered. I wasn't born in 1970, so I'm not that long time of a fan. : ) I started reading LeGuin when I was 14. I read the Earthsea Trilogy then. I didn't read anymore LeGuin for awhile, then I read Tehanu and The Left Hand of Darkness about 3 years ago. I have to be in the right mood to read UKL, which I wasn't for awhile. Now I'm in the mood to read some more thought provoking SF. I learned about Ursula's father in an anthropology course in college, then found out a few months later what the "K" stood for. It was pretty neat. I'd love to read her mother's works too. >I've had the very great pleasure of hearing her speak, when she was a >keynoter at WisCon 20. She's a wonderful public presenter. At first >she seemed unprepared, but as she warmed up, I realize that her >reverence for story telling is not confined to the pages of a book. >She is very funny, and profound, and totally relaxed. If you have the >chance to see her -- even if it involves a day's travel -- do it. >Happy to be here. >Jesse the K Lucky you. I've seen an interview with her and she seemed so interesting. I would love to see her speak. Jennifer- who has done the days' travel thing for an author before -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/0/_/_/_/977494707/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 22 16:16:24 2000 X-Persona: Received: from fl.egroups.com (fl.egroups.com [64.211.240.233]) by isaac.exploratorium.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA10878 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:24:55 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2266408-40-977495090-lquilter=exo.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.53] by fl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Dec 2000 14:24:54 -0000 X-Sender: jenjavar@superior.net X-Apparently-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 22 Dec 2000 14:24:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 59943 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2000 14:24:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Dec 2000 14:24:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO voicenet.com) (207.103.26.205) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Dec 2000 15:25:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 12112 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2000 14:24:38 -0000 Received: from 209-71-147-219-zone-i-adsl.zone-i-adsl.voicenet.com (HELO jennifer.superior.net) (209.71.147.219) by acct2.voicenet.com with SMTP; 22 Dec 2000 14:24:38 -0000 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001222091836.00b4d320@mail.superior.net> X-Sender: jenjavar@mail.superior.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 To: the-ekumen@egroups.com In-Reply-To: <977487682.24327@egroups.com> From: "Jennifer R. J." MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list the-ekumen@egroups.com; contact the-ekumen-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list the-ekumen@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:24:39 -0500 Reply-To: the-ekumen@egroups.com Subject: [the-ekumen] Re: welcome Jesse and Jennifer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: 725b05e0bb5cde40069a3995a9c6c9a3 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4019 >By the way, welcome to Jennifer and Jesse and thanks for posting. >It's so exciting that every other message isn't from me anymore. ; ) Thank you. I'm excited to be on a LeGuin list. : ) >Lots of good reading ahead of you. My advice would be to read City of >Illusions in its proper place in the original Hainish Trilogy: >Rocannon's World, then Planet of Exile, then City of Illusions. >Things will make a lot more sense that way and you'll pick up on >additional levels of meaning. City of Illusions really is the climax >of a trilogy, in my opinion. >best, >Dave Yes, I agree. I sort of abbreviated what I was saying about what I'm going to be reading (I could ramble on and on about books, so I try to stop myself from saying too much). I meant that I'll read the stand-alones, then I'll get the other books in the trilogy from the library or I might find them used, then I'll read City of Illusions. I NEVER read series out of order. I MUST read them in the proper order, even if the author says they can be read in another order- otherwise I'll get all confused. Thanks for the advice though. Jennifer- wondering if any of the other Hainish novels need to be read in any particular order. -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/977495090/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: the-ekumen-unsubscribe@egroups.com